In bullet points: Triumph 400X + Strong engine. Pulls hard down low. Exciting + Good standing ergonomics + Looks great. - Limited luggage capability - limited fuel range - Suspect durability - Poor mud protection - Average suspension when pushing on KTM 390 Adventure + Strong engine. Peakier than the Triumph. Triumph probably better suited to Iceland terrain + great on road handling + Stable on gravel. Good fun + More practical than Triumph. - Electronic intrusion - Tiring standing position - Average fuel range BMW 310 GS (Rally Raid Level 2) + Comfortable stood up and standing + Flexible engine + Good suspension + Good weather protection + Big bike feel, small bike weight - A bit rattly - Not as exciting as some - Average fuel range HONDA CRF300 RALLY + Reliability + Decent wind and weather protection + Good luggage options + Adequate tank range + Light weight (relatively) - Soft suspension - Expensive for what it is but if you've already got one then no issue - Engine lacks character/bite/excitement - Seat comfort HIMALAYAN 411 + Low down weight balance + Good engine for chugging through tricky conditions + Good tank range + Centre stand + Relaxed on road + Manageable seat height + Great stability in tricky conditions - ..... This is why I keep coming back to the 411. Hard to think of a negative other than speed, which is irrelevant on this type of tour. Heavy but carries it low. HIMALAYAN 450 + Great tank range + Well balanced once moving + Great standing position + Centre stand + Great luggage carrying capability - Top heavy - Poor throttle feel - Slightly buzzy engine - Side stand lean = hip pain VOGE 300 RALLY + Great value + Fun to ride + Capable on dirt + Lightweight (relatively) + Reasonable fuel range + Decent weather protection (for what it is) - Some suspect components. Premature wheel bearing failure possibly. - Buzzy at speed I'll add to the list if anything else comes to mind
Ugh, I need to try the Himalayan 450. I've been waiting so long for it, just couldn't gel with the 411 with its tractor engine, CRF was too offroad focused & everything else felt like a commuter in a skirt. Was about to pull the trigger on a KTM 390 but then saw the Duke getting it's generational upgrade meaning the 390 adv was probably around the corner. Then the info about the 450 came out & it looked on paper like the perfect bike. But I hold your reviews in such high regard so it's kind of making my reconsider.
Well, your heart wants to take the Voge but for your audience's perspective it would be nice to see if the new Himi 450 could redeem itself in Iceland. I think a lot of people had high hopes that the Himi would be 'the one' but now that’s looking more likely to be the CFmoto 450
I would take the Voge. I bought mine in January this year and have 1600 miles on it, off road and on road. It’s been thrown on the ground, stuck in deep mud, and wild swimming in deep pools of water 😂 It just keeps going and the engine is a peach. One of the most fun bikes I’ve had in over 50 years of riding. I keep choosing to ride it over my GS! Big smiles and lots of laughs 😃 Have fun in Iceland 👍
I would have to agree here..I bough my voge in march and done 1200 mile on it without fault.feels great on road and lanes combined and carries luggage really well. Dropped it, flipped it and no real damage to note apart from an odd scratch. Great bike
I’m in this transitionary time after decades of riding superbikes and finding my older bones don’t like hauling about big, heavy, bikes anymore. I’m erring towards the CF Moto 450 at the moment, though think I should try a Voge 300 adv.
Hmmm...🤔 Since you're going to have the security of the service van I think this is a unique chance to push & punish the Triumph towards those limits many of us viewers are interested in...
I would take the Honda everyday. The new Himalayan would be interesting and probably get you the most views as it’s new and people are curious to see what it can do in testing conditions.
Holy shit, I used to follow your trip on the Postie on ADVrider more than ten years ago, and now the RU-vid algorithm suggested me this video! Hope the Postie is still alive an well!
Go with your heart Nathan. You can test the Himmy 452 in Devon where it doesn’t matter if you don’t like it. I reckon you’ll choose the Voge or the 411. You need to enjoy yourself too, otherwise it’s ’just work’.. I was shocked by your Irish conclusions on the 452, but we all know you will say what you truly think and tell how it strikes you, rather than how it suits someone else. Have a great trip. Hope those big-bike cheaters don’t make you and the group suffer. Let ‘em haul their own bikes out of the river! Les
With the KTM 390, if you can't be bothered with the Traction Control turning itself back on every time you come to a stop, just pull the fuse for it out, or even better install a switch with a fuse inline (solder wires onto fuseblock).
Great videos Nathan ,always very educational and enjoyable to watch . Just found the book the long ride home you signed for me back in 19/1/2015 , time for a reread. Keep up the good work
Im a 411 Owner and absolutey love it. Just never ceases to amaze me and my riding mates on other machinery but i think you should persevere with the new 452. The guys on MAD TV had them in Australian High Country and thats a tough enviroment by anyones standards. They seemed to think them a big improvment on the 411 and they rode Scrams in the Himalayas so they would have some idea. Wish we could get the Voge in Aus as it seems perfect all rounder.
Nathan, This is one of the best 7 bike reviews I have ever seen, straight honest and informative. I would take the Himalayan 411 or the Voge on the Iceland trip. Thanks for the great video keep up the good work.
HIMALAYAN 411 for me as it has the same engine as my scram and it just makes me smile. Probably would end upside down in the river as the only offroad riding I have ever done in my 40+ years is either on or off campsites or the pub car park. used a series 2 landrover at work on the fells.
You need to get your 390 Adv flashed with the 2022+ software. The OFFROAD mode holds after power cycle which disables the rear wheel abs and softens (but doesn't fully remove) the MTC. Set up on the quick selector, I've found it a good solution
If Voge sold that bike in the US, I would buy it, but since that isn't an option, I vote for the CRF 300. Hard to argue with the peace of mind of knowing your bike will get you home. Might consider, if it was an option, a CRF 300L as it's lighter with less plastic, but your suggestion about finding a used CRF 300 Rally speaks to my soul because I'm a cheap bastard.
It is a shame the the 450Mt isn't available to take to Iceland, that would have been a real test for it, I would take the KTM 390, only because I have owned one and they are light and a bit like a mini GS, good on road and good off road, not the best at either, but accomplished at both.
I've just rode to Iceland via the Denmark ferry on my 2019 Moto Guzzi V7 (3521 mile trip). I put 50/50 tyres on for the gravel roads which I'm pleased I did. I wasn't going to go fully off road May was still a unknown weather wise and I am not stupid to think that the Guzzi would do the river crossings etc. It was a great experience and recomend it to anyone and I didn't have breakdown cover, no one would do it, but I did have confidence in my bike. Just go for it and don't over think it.
@@nathanthepostman Iceland is one of those places as a biker you need to go to, the scenery and roads are stunning, anyone following you who is in two minds I'd say go for it. I was on the ferry with two other Brits, Mike on his old Himalayan and Liz on her pink BMW S1000RR (r1liz), we all loved it, Iceland is a special place.
Iceland seems like a place where someone would just give it a go. I remember a story from an earlier Adventure Motorcycle Handbook where a couple of guys took 2 stroke can-am/Armstrong/CCM military bikes there and had a lot of fun with the cold water crossings. From what I've seen of Iceland, I'd probably take the 452.
Actually really agree mate easy to overbike yourself an it’s so important to choose with the heart to :) life is short. We’ve been in the position where the T7 is to much for dad so going back to lighter bikes either a 390adv which we have had in the past 650xt but again a big bike or the 310gs. Cost plays a part to rather spend less on the bike n more riding now :) really looking forward to how the Triumph gets on in Ireland.
Nice thoughts - it really should be the 450 Himalayan, if you were looking for a predictable / nice journey obviously it would be the Voge (your heart is telling you that), you know it can do it, and obviously supporting everyone who is joining you it's the right choice, but you're not so sure on the Himalayan 450, you'll have a new story to tell, and just perhaps this may really be the one that you grow to love (or not). Wishing you a fab time in Iceland.
Take the 450 Himalayan. There's been a lot of negative press other than from people sponsored by Royal Enfield. It may need more miles on the engine to settled down a bit. If you take it, it will probably be the highest mileage 450 in the UK and any maturing or deterioration could show. For ease and comfort, I'd take the 411, but for curiosity, the 450.
Wise words at the end there Nathan! I've had a Versys 300 for about 18 months, and a 390 Adventure for about eight months, and now... I'm planning to sell the KTM and keep the Versys because overall I enjoy riding it more 😊
I have a royal Enfield 411 and ride it on off road trials as well as rent one in the Himalayas each year. Top bike.. and I’d love to do your trip to Iceland next year and guess which bike I’ll bring!
Yes really honest views on Himalayan......I'm in the same frame of mind not sure whether to stick to 411 or go 450 don't like the sound of...heavy....creates stress??... Have a good journey
@@nathanthepostman I watched all those videos and they were really informative! I thought that it might get a little more beating with this trip hahah 😝
On my 390 Adv I had my 2020 software updated. I can now just switch from road to off road (I leave it in off road). It doesn't turn the TC off completely but makes it not stall and cut out. I never really had a problem with TC unless I am stuck it wet mud or deep gravel.
The Himmi 411 because it's good to ho and I'm tight. Saved money pays for the trip as you say. It's idiosyncrasies are all known and manageable. The 450 wirh that screen is a non starter at the moment. Too tiring above 55-60. Ride safe
I like the anvil type reliability of the Honda so I’d be on that 👍 However I’m am very keen to know more about the CFmoto, I was going to buy a T7 or the 800DE but the little 450 MT has me very curious indeed.
Any chance we'll get the vogue 300 rally in the US? US forums have had people asking how to get one here for a long time. I have zero doubt they'd be sold out constantly, all of our Chinese bikes are at the moment.
Baby GS gets my vote. However, I think the Himalayan 450 needs the Iceland trip to have a chance of showing its true potential and would be good to do before you get hold of the CF Moto 450.
I'd take the 411 (have you fixed the side stand switch ?) I'd like you to take the 452 to really get to the bottom of it on such a trip. Enjoy the trip ride safe
Great informative video. i am really keen to try a Voge and are hoping to try one at the ABR. I have tried the new Himalayan and was completely underwhelmed. I dont know if i was just expecting too much but I must admit I preferred the old one. From what i am hearing and reading the CF Moto 450 seems to be on a lot of peoples radars and maybe why some people are holding fire at the moment.
Voge 300 Rally would be my choice, I test rode one when I came out and didn’t want to give it back! But had recently bought a Benelli TRK 502X so couldn’t commit to changing and taking a big £ loss but next summer I will change unless the CF Moto 450 is great!
I’d take the new Himalayan, if only to challenge your previous concerns and see how it felt on a proper tour. I think given how you felt about it, there will be so many people out there wanting to know more, who might have had second thoughts about buying one, especially with the likes of CF Moto and Voge offering good value alternatives.
Just put my Kove 450 up for sale. Great bike and it always starts right up, and is very nimble for the weight. And it flies when given some throttle, but not the most comfortable bike with the stock seat. I would take it over a 690 or 701, but now that I'm in 60 and coming off major heart surgery, I am considering a Honda CRF 300L. I have a Triumph 1200 XE for road and logging roads, and complementary small cc bike that is quiet and bullet proof makes more sense to me now. I no longer wish to rally, and puttering about on a small bike appeals to me now. If I didn't have my Triumph, I would likely keep the Kove as my do it all bike.
Iceland, Ireland, the US. How do you find time to be a postman? I'm glad I'm not living on your route, I'd still be waiting for my Christmas cards. I enjoyed your breakdown of the small adventure bike market which I don't keep up with. I'm really a road rider but I've had a DRZ 400 for many years, and prior to that some CCMs and Honda XRs (old stuff, not the current incarnations). The DRZ will do anything, it's bouncy, tough and tall (and light) but you wouldn't want to ride it too far on the road - certainly not to fxxxxxx Denmark! Good luck.
Just put a couple of spacer washers on the rear ABS ring on the KTM 390, and you have a light, fast, exciting, reliable, very capable bike with no electric aids to faff with, and it's tubeless.. 👍
I'm with you on this one. I own the KTM but it's really a road bike, I've had the BMW engine in the road version and liked it but kept stalling when pulling away. The CRF is a lesser bike than the Voge but for considerably more money. Never ridden either RE but, as a fan of old Brit bikes I've a feeling the old model would better suit me. The Voge (which I also own) wins hands down as it's so light and off road friendly. BUT... I'd probably take the new CF Moto if it were to be available as it's so well equipped, has more power and would imio (i for imagined) be better for distance work. The Aussies already have the CF Moto and it certainly seems like a great bike and at a unbelievable price. I have money down and waiting patiently.
I think the Triumph or the 452 (a bit biased after two test rides, to the 400-X's test ride) would be great to see. The others have been well covered. I do like the 310 gs after a test ride, lovely induction noise and punchy engine, easily capable of motorway speeds.
Thank you for the great video and tips! I am looking for my first bike, which I will use on the road and off road tracks (green laning), I can't decide which bike to get. From my research I am thinking of the KTM Adv 890 but it seems like you don't think it is a good idea?
No I think it's an absolutely terrible idea. If you're going green leaning for the first time you want something you can manage, that you can pick up, afford to drop and is soft to ride. An 890 is for the experienced rider. In my opinion of course.
@@nathanthepostman in my area green laning is limited, so I think it will be mostly road riding, I would guess 75% on road to 25% off road. Your points make sense about being able to pick up an also being able to afford to drop - I guess I am trying to find something that will last me a longer time as I get the experience.
What would I take to Iceland, it would be the 411, but I am biased, as I have a july issue 2023 version. I just love the thing. As a tall skinny, not so strong bloke, thought it was a bit heavy still do, but offroad, and we have serious offroad here in Australia, I find it a great bike. Have ridden offroad a CRF 250, liked it but it was too slow on road, and bringing my wife on Sunday rides it couldn't do it too well. The other bike I have ridden a KTM 390, a friends bike for a weekend, he rode my Himi, he was very surprised with the himi, the rideablity of it, I just couldn't wait to get back onto my bike. I do have a injured back and the himi, solves that by being quite upright and comfortable, the seat was better by adding a fluffy sheepskin on It. I do 8 hour return rides to see a mate once a month, and it does that well, the ride is 70% dirt and sand, no problems, So I reckon take the 411 instead.
Hey my friend, no question in my mind, I would use the KTM 390 Adventure as I have one here in Iceland and like you I prefer lighter bikes as I'm getting older and this bike has everything you need for great adventure riding here. Second choice would be the Honda CRF. Would love to meet up with you guys while you are here and ride with you for a day and even show you some of the less traveled tracks. Cheers.
I'd take the Voge and it seems to be the one you want to ride. I'm here in a US city where I don't have access to anything beyond pavement. Currently I'm working a China 72cc engine into a 1963 Honda Super Cub, mostly I ride a Honda CB250 and I have a CX500 also. I have seven other motorcycles because I also love bikes and hate selling them. It remains to be seen whether I'll make my way to Ecuador but, there I'd be deciding between a Voge 300 Rally or a Loncin 300 Rally. I think the main difference between the two is price, $5150 USD for the Voge, $3350 for the Loncin. I think the engines are the same except carburetor instead of EFI on the Loncin. The Loncin has a different display and maybe no ABS. For the price difference, the Loncin seems the winner.
@@person.X. I thought about that and spent some time researching how that may go. I found that a lot of people have bikes with carburetors that run rich at altitude but, they still run. If you were staying long term, you'd rejet but, for temporary, you muddle through. Ecuador does have Loncin 300 Rallys that stay at altitude so, I'd hope they would know which jet(s) to use. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me to carry jets with me and rejet as necessary. There are YT videos comparing the two bikes side by side but, they're in Spanish and no hablo espanol is about all of the Spanish I know.
Hi guys, just got back from a 2500k trip from UK into France, through France North to South, then into Andorra, through Andorra into Spain on to Bilbao doing a combination of TET & ACT, two crf300 rallys and a beat up Himalayan 411, now for the interesting part, at every opportunity i stole the Himalayan 😂 It was better on the roads, softer more relaxed mile after mile and fair on the trails and just to clarify my crf300 rally is a 2023 with everything done, stand, K-Tech suspension etc (just under a 10k bike now!) But after all that i realised i need my T7 back, my head says no, my heart wants it back, I've gone round in a big expensive circle waisting money on bikes thinking i need something else, for all the T7's faults i enjoyed riding it, you are so right Nathan, ride the bike you ENJOY!!
Hi,if it makes you feel any better ive done a very similar circle,i think many of us chase the unicorn bike but i dont think it exists,at the end of the day we should be satisfied with our bikes but today its too easy to ride 1 in and ride another out,ive gone from a triumph ro ket 3 now im down to a honda forza 350 and get that same grin as i did on the big triumph.good luck with your decision whichever way you decide.
Had my 411 serviced the other day and was chatting about the new 450. He said he didn't like it while running in as nothing happened before 3000 revs. Then he realised it was set to performance mode. Likes it a lot more now.
The bike does automatically set itself to performance mode. If you switch it to Eco, it will return to performance mode next time you start the engine. The engine's do liven up with mileage for sure.
He's doing well and back at home and currently getting the renovations done to it to make it accessible in the chair. Eyes on a Can Am for next year's run!
The thing about the CRF, as you said it.. You pay a lot of money and still you need expensive suspention upgrade if you want to have fun with it or luggage.. That puts it at least on 1.5 price of a Himy 411. The CF moto 450 on paper beats them all on everything. For years people where asking for dissent suspention, not too tall seat 450 range bike on that weight /170 kg or less/. It's baffling to me why many manufactures do not sprung and damp their bikes right. It will coast them little to nothing.
They really put some thought into it. Folding mirrors, brake pedal and gear lever. Just little things that most of us (doing any serious dirt riding) would likely add but they thought to include.
Just to say...new 450... Just looked at?? Different set up to the 411.... seems I reckon 411 is more fun....but what through a spanner in the works was the voge...... very impressive....now what should I go for?????
Would love to try the unloved BMW 310 with the Rally Raid kit! In the USA BMW has been pushing some aggressively tempting financing and deals on the 310, which makes me wonder. They will undoubtedly introduce a replacement soon. NO hard evidence but the signs are there as well as a few hints from people in the know.
I did hear from a BMW head office rep that a new mini GS is coming, but when and what I've no idea. I suspect it's a fair way off and the it'll need to be some bike to compete with the rest of the pack at the rate they're all improving. But the 310 is temping if you can get a good deal.
@@nathanthepostman I'm a little worried it will be a version of the new boxer R12T. Although that would be a great bike it will not be affordable. Of course that would mean cheaper than a new R1300GS but definitely not in the price range of the bikes in this video! At least 2X the cost of the most expensive bike here. I had an X-Challenge years ago a great bike but not a great travel bike. Good Rotax motor though.
Hi Nathan, I’ve been thinking of buying a Himalayan 411 just for bit of fun and like the look of it. Researching long term reliability I con across more owners saying they have loads of niiggly problems and the engine sound so agricultural like a bag of spanners . One man has Himalayan 411 and a 2011 I think Re Bullet 500 who says his older 500 Bullet engine is so much more refined and quieter compared to his Himalayan 411 which is green so is maybe 2021 /2022. He commented that he still loves the look etc of Himalayan but hates the unrefined 411 engine noises. What do u think regarding the engine noises? Thanks. Good luck with Iceland trip
Tough choice to be honest. Can see the Vogue been a safe bet. Similar to a CRF Rallye, but more together package. However, 452 Himalayan would be an interesting test and further exploration. But it’s doesn’t excite you, and if your going somewhere amazing like Iceland, you need have a bike that’s a friend and you enjoy, gets you out of bed so speak. Personally choice would the 411 Himalayan. But it’s my favourite bike and very impressed with mine in the 3 months of ownership.
There is a cheap and easy solution to the issue with bikes leaning too far: buy cheap ice hockey pucks; drill two holes into the base of the kick stand, mount the puck with screws (use forstner bits to sink the head of the screw or the nut into the puck). Trim of material that is in the way and you are good to go. Worked like charm on 2 BMW 1150 GSAs which have way too short kick stands. Should also work on the Himalayan 450. And if not: it's not very expensive and the pucks can also be used for other things.
To be honest the problem isnt the stand. It's the way it carries its weight. It's a heavy bike compared to the rest here. Not as heavy as a 1150gs, but it'd be the last bike here you'd want to lay down in a river crossing.
@@nathanthepostman thx for the clarification - I was under the impression it was leaning too far over and that added a lot to the issue of its top heavy-ness with the bigger 17L tank. The GS wasn't fun to pick up as well - I can tell you that much (but it did not fall that far because of the cylinders sticking out...). Anyway: the best bike for the job out of your line-up is probably not providing the best youtube content. If I were you and had to guide a group I'd take the 411 (which I bought for my wife on your recommandation - it is fantastic!). If I was looking for interesting content, I'd take the Triumph and a fuel bladder...
@@EvilMietziRacing Oh don't you go encouraging me on to the Triumph. It is tempting! Yes, the side stand on the 450 Himi definitely doesn't help things, but it's still a porky up high. I did get a bit tired of it in Ireland and that was all on Tarmac. With luggage on the dirt I just don't relish the weight of the 450. So will probably go for something else. Glad your wife's getting on with the 411!
@@nathanthepostman it is not only her - I like it too! Although I can pick between 1150 GS, R100GS PD, R100GS, KTM 620 Adventure and a HD Electra Glide of all things, I usually take a Honda Grom 125, the 411 or a Honda Dax 125 Clone to work. Way more efficient and way more exciting than the big bikes. Helps in Berlin traffic too to be more on the small and nimble side than on the "I am an old fart on a BMW" side ...
@@nathanthepostman Me too though I've a feeling you'll be out on yours before me as I'm currently screwed and bolted back together after a car turned in front of me on the road resulting in a seriously shattered left wrist.
Good problem to have or is it the tyranny of choice. Id take one of your little green military bikes or 125 postie bike just for the laugh. Enjoy the trip! Cheers Paul
Yes, sorry, not always the easiest to understand. A list of pros and cons for each bike... Triumph 400X + Strong engine. Pulls hard down low. Exciting + Good standing ergonomics + Looks great. - Limited luggage capability - limited fuel range - Suspect durability - Poor mud protection - Average suspension when pushing on KTM 390 Adventure + Strong engine. Peakier than the Triumph. Triumph probably better suited to Iceland terrain + great on road handling + Stable on gravel. Good fun + More practical than Triumph. - Electronic intrusion - Tiring standing position - Average fuel range BMW 310 GS (Rally Raid Level 2) + Comfortable stood up and standing + Flexible engine + Good suspension + Good weather protection + Big bike feel, small bike weight - A bit rattly - Not as exciting as some - Average fuel range HONDA CRF300 RALLY + Reliability + Decent wind and weather protection + Good luggage options + Adequate tank range + Light weight (relatively) - Soft suspension - Expensive for what it is but if you've already got one then no issue - Engine lacks character/bite/excitement - Seat comfort HIMALAYAN 411 + Low down weight balance + Good engine for chugging through tricky conditions + Good tank range + Centre stand + Relaxed on road + Manageable seat height + Great stability in tricky conditions - ..... This is why I keep coming back to the 411. Hard to think of a negative other than speed, which is irrelevant on this type of tour. Heavy but carries it low. HIMALAYAN 450 + Great tank range + Well balanced once moving + Great standing position + Centre stand + Great luggage carrying capability - Top heavy - Poor throttle feel - Slightly buzzy engine - Side stand lean = hip pain VOGE 300 RALLY + Great value + Fun to ride + Capable on dirt + Lightweight (relatively) + Reasonable fuel range + Decent weather protection (for what it is) - Some suspect components. Premature wheel bearing failure possibly. - Buzzy at speed I'll add to the list if anything else comes to mind
I wouldn't take the Triumph or KTM as they are basically road bikes. The GS310 isn't quick, but then you won't be going fast. That said, it's not a full-on off-roader either. CRF / Vote would be best off-road but lack of luggage is a pain. For me, one of the Hymalayans would be my choice, probably the 450.
