The only deck I use Grave Titan in is Araumi. She unlocks the better parts of the card because she creates multiple that have haste and immediately get their attack trigger (and are going to die anyway). Even with that said, Grave Titan is still really low on the encore priority list in comparison to Massacre wurm and Grey Merchant of Asphodel. ...I realize I am just proving your point.
@@NitpickingNerds When you think hornet queen is good you get 6 power and in the air and are good blokers at the same time and you are in a token deck in green so you should at least have one of these parallel lives doubling season
Great video as usual guys. Just wanted to mention that Clone Legion and Oona are each a little better than you gave them credit for. You said Clone Legion could copy an opponent’s board but it is target player, so it can copy your own as well. On Oona, you said it mills. But it actually exiles cards from the top, not mills. That is better IMO.
Exile is better unless you are actively trying to steal things from your opponents graveyard or playing cards like consuming aberration that want your opponents graveyard full. There are always exceptions and your local meta might favor one over the other.
Mechanized production requires 8 artifacts with the same name, not necessarily the enchanted one. Slap it on a myr battlesphere and win on your next turn
i have it as my little mini game in my Braids Cloning deck. ended up with 8 caged suns within 2 turns once mechanized production was out. had paradox haze so i had 4 triggers with a copy enchantment on mechanized production making it 8 triggers theres actually a ton of ways to make it happen in a braids cloning deck but thats the only deck id run it in
@@Arisawa_Heavy_Ind literally the next line "Then if you control eight or more artifacts with the same name as one another, you win the game." The artifacts need to share a name, they don't need to be what's copied
the point of a card like pentivus is you can make the token at instant speed, declare it as a blocker, then sack it back into a counter for 2 mana. I run it in korvold as a 2 mana draw a card artifact. Also pairs well with grave pact and token doublers.
@@NitpickingNerds sorry Must have overheard that. Still i would count revel in Riches then as possibility (especially against aristocrat decks), but it is for sure much weaker, but should white always get the worst Card in a cycle ;-)
one of my first cards was Army of the Damned and its such a pet card of mine. 8 mana for 13 zombies, then flashback for another 13. in practice it just makes everyone gang up on you because they come in tapped
I personally agree with all of this except for Luminarch Ascension. This card has won me several games and it acts as a mana sink when you are playing control or if you have missed your card draw spells. Also, I am curious what you guys, or anyone else, thinks of Dragonmaster Outcast. I have loved this card for a long time, even though it usually eats removal, but it only costs one mana so I am okay with it getting destroyed over my commander or something.
I really like luminarch ascension in a leisa drain deck. Its gives you things to do without casting spells, and the angel creature type could be relevant depending on if your deck has an angel subtheme
For a long time DO never paid off in my deck so I considered taking it out. But when I realized that spot removal was being wasted on it I decided to keep it in because thats one less spot card for something I actually care about keeping. Basically, DO is a card u play to divert attention, and it will
luminarch ascension is a great card, frankly it should probably be in every white deck regardless of whether or not its a token deck. Sure 2, 3, even 5 4/4 fliers can be irrelevant basically only blockers. But the reason cards like luminarch ascension and trudge garden are incredible is because of card advantage. Spend your first several turns making land drops, drawing cards, and making token blockers. You stay in the game, making evasive bodies you can sacrifice or buff later, and when the inevitable wrath comes you have invested 0 cards in hand to the board state.
OHHHH BUDDY! Can't wait to hear this. Could there be some juicy nuggs for my Sidar + Tevesh deck..??? Can't wait to find out! Keep up the great content as always!
Abzan token commanders, I played Ghave for a long time and never lost. Now I use Sidar Kondo and Tevesh Szat as partner commanders and it’s so much more fun.
I dont know about Luminarch Ascension. Its won me games in my Ghired populate deck. I like it a lot but you guys are right too, it does put a giant target on you.
What ends up happening is that if it goes off early you can longer advance your board state with ramp or anything and late it is just not easy to get going.
Hey there cool Video! I'm playing a Cadira, caller of the small selesnya tokens deck, and think its quite fun to produce huge amount of rabbit tokens before finishing everyone off with Craterhoof, Eldrazi Monument, Triumph of the hordes or even Odric Master tactician. Maybe you can do an updated Video, or even a token creator ranking/grading video, since there are crazy many ways to create tokens and unfortunately many people play crap token creators.
I think a lot of players have that 1 token creator they're over fond of, whether good or bad. For example I try to play "Rite of the Raging Storm" in decks where I can. The card isn't super powerful, but puts in work in the right deck. Besides, giving each player a 5/1 haste trample guy who can't swing at you on their upkeep is hilarious.
Okay, I miss the name flavor texts LOL. I did win with a Clone Legion when my opponent had a dragon deck. All his creatures ETBing at once sent a million damage straight to face. Then I took it out of my deck because yeah, not a great card.
Great video! I think Oketra and Rampaging Baloths are closer than you suggest. Oketra has a better floor, but the ceiling on Baloths is higher due to etb triggers being more abusable. Also, Luminarch Ascension is mild in straightforward token decks, but excels in Prison or Stax decks. When the battlefield is locked down, that card will just win the game.
Sure, if you're just looking to make mass tokens to trigger ETB or death triggers, your list is great, but some of these token cards aren't for that. Also, Mechanized Production is amazing. I run it in my Sharuum deck. Nothing quite like enchanting a Sol Ring or Master Transmuter in order to ramp more mana or cheat out more artifacts easily, or even enchant Myr Battlesphere and suddenly you have 8 Myr tokens and just win the game. Endless Ranks of the Dead requires you to control zombies? Alright, run it in a zombie deck. Who cares if it only makes a number of zombie tokens equal to half the number of zombies you control. If your deck already uses zombies, you get extra zombies. Sounds pretty good. Some of these cards are a lot better than you give them credit for, but mostly because you only valued token makers for quantity.
I agree that nine mana is too much for that Clone Legion card but at the same time, after casting it you will only be even if you literally have zero creatures already out on your side. Most likely you would end up with your entire army of creatures, plus a clone of their entire army of creatures vs their original army of creatures, that is not even. I'm not a fan of the card either though so my point is rather moot I suppose.
I appreciate this video on a personal level and haven’t even gotten 3 minutes in lol. I’ve made a loooit of decks over the past 7 years and I never “net deck” (although I look online for specific synergies of coarse, but never decklists. And not because I look down on it but I just enjoy the build from scratch tactic. The deck building is half the fun. Anyway with that said, after all my own building experience, I STILL have problems with my token decks because there’s just SOOOO many good/cool token makers in all colors. So I definitely need this slap in the face of a video telling me NOT to run that Dragon master OutKast just because it’s a dragon or landfall deck lol.
An interesting one I use in my Korvold (non-cEDH) deck is Snake Pit. It depends heavily on the context, so it might be a dead card sometimes... but it's rare. Most people play blue and/or black in their decks. scryfall.com/card/mmq/271/snake-pit
I think another underrated card is mishra’s replicator. In an artifact deck, it’s a token generator that gets out of hand really quickly. Could be a consideration for budget bombs in the future ;)
I know they came much later after this video got uploaded but if you guys ever plan on doing a update to these type of videos. I can definitely see Koma, cosmos serpent and beledros witherbloom being mentioned in the update
30:39 In artifact decks, this is usually not for the token, but for the wincon. That's why it's so expensive. It doesn't specify the artifact you have it on, just if they have the same name as *one another*, so If you have 8 1/1 thopters, you win.
No love for Sprout Swarm? It's definitely not mana efficient, but it never costs you a card unless you want it to, and depending on your board state, you can continue to churn out tokens even if you're tapped out.
I'm not gonna go off about grave Titan combos but I will say that in the case of Grave Titan you shouldn't really look at only the token generation when deciding its viability, it is also a 6/6 Deathtouch for six. It creates its tokens on both etb and attack, which means it's repeatable (in multiple ways) and potentially abusable (in the right deck). To top it all off it is generally safe to swing with it because nobody wants to block deathtouch (except to chump it), which isn't a downside either since the tokens are already generated at that point and that opponent now has 1 less creature. This means that as long as nobody "spots" it or sweeps you're almost always gaining two 2/2 zombies per round. The card is value all over, mana cost is cheap for P/T and an ability useful for both offense and defense, it creates two tokens each trigger so even after swinging you are have disposable/replaceable blockers. For 6 mana, you get 10 power and 10 toughness, add one attack phase and you are getting 14 power and 14 toughness for the low low cost of 6 mana + 1 attack phase. I completely disagree with your assessment of Grave Titan, The card by itself is incredibly good, even from a strictly "value creature" standpoint. Anyway rant over, still a good video, take care! :) Card Idea: Name: Titan of the Grave Mana Cost: 4BB Power/Toughness: 6/6 Text: Kicker: 1B "When Titan of the Grave enters the battlefield it gets your choice of Deathtouch or Trample, if it was kicked it gets both. Whenever Titan of the Grave enters the battlefield or attacks create two 2/2 black zombie creature tokens. Zombies you control gain deathtouch as long as Titan of the Grave has Deathtouch and Trample as long as Titan of the Grave has Trample. Sacrifice 4 Zombies: Return Titan of the Grave from your Graveyard to the Battlefield. Activate only as a Sorcery." There...is that a good enough "Grave Titan" to play? Sigh, the power scale of cards is crazy nowadays. At this point I probably wouldn't even be surprised if they made that card... OK now rant over 8-P
Skinny dude is wrong about Ugin. From personal experience and I have a lot of it with Ugin, he is almost always immediately used as removal. It is my favorite planeswalker card so I force him into everything. Oh! And with a little work Elspeth sun champions has stolen me more games then I can count. Between ugin and elspeth I'm questioning whether you have have any experience with these cards.
Yea beezy can come across not likeable because he scoffs about everything if it doesn't agree with him. I'd say the same for Awakening Zone, 3 mana ramp, that makes bodies? Sure if you draw it turn 8 not much, but the same could be said for tons of good cards.
Clone Legion is a Game-Ender, it creates a copy of each creature target PLAYER controls (which includes yourself). Doubling your board state for 9 mana is gross, not to mention there is MANY ways to play Instants and/or Sorceries for free (Diluvian Primordial comes to mind). Mnemonic Wall (on board) + Clone Legion = Pay 7UU, double your board state every turn (or as long as you have the mana). Great Whale (essentially free to cast) + temple of the false god (or any land that taps for 2) + Mnemonic wall (on board) + Clone Legion = infinite creatures,.add in one or two etb creatures (on board) and its game over...Honestly if you have even a mediocre board state (Relative to the turn on which it's played) you can quickly cause a tablewide scoop with a single casting of this spell. Haha he said you lost me at 9 mana sorcery...what say you then about expropriate, or mnemonic deluge, or in garruk's wake, or reshape the earth, or Rise of the Dark Realms, or Dragonstorm? If all you have in your deck is a bunch of cheap small effects then that is all you'll ever be able to manage. I am not saying destroy your mana curve with Hail Mary spells but it is important to be able to close the deal decisively, lest the game drag on for hours...
Sometimes I can't understand your pronunciations of card names, for example, at 7:15. And youtube translation says "great got eternal catcher." Which card? Sometimes you talk so fast (I'm sure you've said these names a thousand times, so you say them really fast now), that you don't clearly enunciate the words. Thanks for the video!
Clone legion in my life gain deck pretty much kills off all other players. 3 creatures with "when a creature enters the battlefield gain 1 life" and 3 creatures with "when you gain life, opponent loses 1 life" makes it so I gain 6 life and deal 36 damage PER CREATURE. Plenty enough to kill 3 players.
@@NitpickingNerds I hope shizz means fun :) nothing like odyssey/onslaught block... birds va squirrels. Hurricane vs Wraith of God. But if Soulcatchers Aerie is in play, watch out.
So glad you called out endless ranks of the dead, I've played zombie commander for 10 years and nerds still go nutty for it. card is awful. I might sell mine since they're 20 a pop right now
Mechanized production could be fun with pitiless plunderer lol. With Sauron it would only take two turns if you sacrifice your army every time Sauron triggers
Imagine making a token video and not mentioning krenko. Imagine saying oona is garbage when many people run unlimited mana combos with oona. Oona games go like this unlimited mana, play oona, mill entire board. This channel has no credibility in my eyes.
Mechanized production has you enchant an artifact the win con doesn’t have to come from the copies of that enchanted artifact. The eight artifacts just need the same name. So I don’t understand how this is bad?
I remember I kicked a rite of replication on an opponents grey merchant I almost lost that game too. He was NOT happy. they all gained me like 70 life in total.
Mechanized production does not rely on the targeted artifact. Mechanized production anything, then if you have 8 treasure tokens on your upkeep, you win...
So with luminarch ascension being so low, I'm guessing Entreat the Angels is kinda crap too? I like it when I top deck it lategame but two games i have had it in my starting hand and only ever used it as a discard source, so... Yeah
Guys - three mistakes!!! - Reveal in Riches is the black one of the Dockside/Hullbreacher/Smothering Tide cycle - Oona exiles & never mills, so never advantages your opponents (also turns people off of tutors which place cards on top of their library) - Mechanised Production doesn't win off of the enchanted Artifact - e.g. enchant your Darksteel Citadel and win off of Thopters Love you guys though (hopefully without making you too uncomfortable =D)
Mechanized production can enchant a mana rock but win the game off your 8 treasure tokens. Still niche but has decks where it can function well. Maybe brudiclad, maybe certain breya decks
You guys are right about Ophiomancer in Yawgmoth. It's the 2nd best card in the deck after Gravepact. But you were wrong about Oona milling your opponents. She exiles the cards. She's not great at token making but good for exileing Eldrazi titans if you're on mill.
We were shorthanding some of the text since we had to read a lot of cards, we must have forgot to make that distinction, that said those are still our genuine opinions on the card as its printed :)
Scute swarm is so dumb... it's borderline craterhoof levels of 'this is too easy and I feel bad for playing it'. At least the table Usually has a round to deal with it.
Breezy I love and care about you! Your shirt is half washed today sorry use fabric softener. Get em joe friends don't let friends wear half washed clothes!
Only gone through the first 5 minutes, but my best token deck ever was Trostani big bois, using cards like phyrexian processor and Ajani avatar to overwhelm the board with a handful of absolutely massive tokens. Ooze Flux and ageless entity goes wild very quickly with doublers. Rest of the deck was ramp and high mana protection, like Avacyn, archetype of endurance, asceticism, ect. Was a very powerful deck, and routinely the raid boss of the table.
LOL I have a 60 card clue deck that uses Mechanized production as a wincon, opponents typically don't have a clue what I'm doing. I recently added Rampage of the Clans to the deck to turn all the artifacts into 3/3 centaurs as a blitz maneuver on my opponents end step. Personally I love Deathtouch so Grave Titan and Hornet Queen are some of my favorites as a grunt card and having blink effects can quickly make an army. Every time I use Deathtouch I am reminded of the Joker comment from Dark Knight: ''Look what I did to this city with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets.'' Look what I did to this game with a few Deathtouch creatures and a couple of tokens :P
Did you cover talrand and I missed it or is Young Pyromancer just way better? Also does Deekah, Fractal Theorist have merit for the magecraft? Like if you run Krark and copy tons of spells?
You didn't mention Bloodline keeper and Thraben Doomsayers two creatures which can make you an insane amount of tokens if you find a way to untap them (intruder alarm for the win ;) ) I realise it is hard to mention every token creator but I think those two are REALLY good and arguably better than some of the inclusions. Regarding awakening zone, I agree it is not a card for every green deck however my Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest does love it :D
Retrofitter Foundry is okay too if you just want generic artifact creatures with no strings attached. Strictly better than Nuisance Engine, which is just complete bulk.
