"Evil! Liar!" I adore Carlos so much. And what I love about his appearance here is it hammers home yet another recurring theme: Harry has a real tendency to underestimate his allies. I don't mean their capabilities in a fight, but a matter of their willingness to empathize, listen, and trust in him. His unwillingness to open up to the people who have his back have caused him no end of problems since book one, but fortunately here, Carlos is as forgiving as he is magnanimous.
This one is usually rated mid teir or even lower, I think it's one of the most underrated personally. The fight on the boat, the flashback, and the duel are some of my favorite battles in the series. And I feel like this is Elaine's real introduction. She is basically playing Harry the whole time in Summer Knight, so you don't get to know her at all until now. First book with Molly as his apprentice too.
I recently realized that a lot of the books heavily featuring the White Court become more enjoyable with rereads. They have a lot of larger scale stuff, while at the same time not being as bombastic as other entries in the series.
IMO, It has a lot of great moments, but does a poor job of tying them together. The overall structure feels rickety, but the bits it's holding together are pretty good.
One slight correction you said the Outsiders are members of the Black Court, which is the vampire breed, as opposed to the Black Council which is Cowls group. Lash became a distinct entity from Lasciel in part because Harry gave her a Name. He then started to give her some choices to make for herself. I think the metaphor is that Lash was a footprint in the mud that is Harry’s brain whereas Lasciel is the whole being, which is billions of years old and a primal force of the universe. Also, HERE WE FREAKING GO. Small Favor, Turn Coat and Changes are quite possibly the best trilogy of mid series book in any sci fi series.
Yeah you're getting Lash vs Lasciel correct. Absolute master-stroke by Butcher IMO - showing the force of Harry's will and doing what's right - being able to change even the shadow of a fallen angel for the better. Such a powerful idea.
Yes, you’re getting the distinction between Lash (the version in his head) and Lasciel correctly. Lash was basically imprinted in Harry’s mind. But that means she’s a part of him, she is made up of him because he is what Lash is imprinted on, sort of like a quarter has George Washington’s image on it but it’s still metal not George Washington. I don’t know if that made as much sense out loud as it did in my head. 😂
Yeah and those "shadows" of the fallen aren't really designed to stay in peoples head that long. In Dead Beat Cassius was so convinced Harry had the coin on him, because all that time he was with the Denarians he never heard of someone resisting it for more than a matter of weeks.
@@rodneylopez5073 no no that is not why she gained free will that is why she could change instead of having the obsurd level of resistance to change a billions year old being would naturaly have she has free will because she dosent have lashiels grace or whatever the corrupted version of grace the fallen have is called free will dosent nescessarily mean change especialy not in dresden files free will is a very specific thing that imortals dont have but imortals can still change over very long time spans without free will free will means that your actions are not controlled by your mantel for example mab literaly can not lie is not physicaly capable of it can not give something without taking something of equal value can not leave a debt unpaid can not go back on a deal must answer a question asked three times or generaly act in a way that is un mab like it dose not matter how badly she wants to but she could over say a thousand years turn into the god of the frozen wastes of space or become warmer and much more gental as global warming melts the ice caps and winters cool becomes the good pleasent time of the year it really maters what mortals believ about imortal beings that beliefe in theam and what they represent controls theam as well as gives theam imense power and imortality
Oh man, Small Favor is next, you're gonna love that one Merphy! Also the Molly stuff never gets as bad as the scene early on in White Night, but it never goes away.
@@tacorrific And..... possible spoilers..... Three Billy Goats Gruff. And Demonreach for the first time. And Ivy + Kincade. And Mab. And lots of Michael. It's SUCH a good book. Oh and Marcone, Gard and Hendriks. How did he fit so much into one book?
i love these spoiler reviews for dresden books. it is easy to point at the flaws of these books, but they each have their strengths. these books will always have a place in my favorite series' list. (given that the upcoming books don't mess up too badly)
The Lash scenes toward the end are great and especially her "She doesn't deserve you" at the end. Some excellent set ups in this book that will pay off later.
About the whole Molly thing: One thing i think people forget to realize is that we're IN Harry's head. And hes a sexually repressed dude. Hes gonna notice when someone is hot/attractive no matter what, even when he (we) dont want to. Thats why it speaks so highly to his character that these thoughts come in, cant control them, but then the way he ACTS after having those thoughts is what matters and what really shows who he is. A lot of people complain about the whole thing in Proven Guilty with Molly showing herself to him, but what does he do? He dumps a pitcher of cold water on her and tells her no. I would say, dont get too bogged down in Harry's noticing of attractive women because its going to happen a lot, and maybe women just arent used to these intrusive thoughts like guys are, but pay attention to what he does AFTER and how he ACTS after he has those initial thoughts.
While I agree with your opinion on how Molly is sexualized in Harrys eyes, it helped me to think of it like this: Molly is a very sensual person and Harry is honest enough to admit that to himself, but would never dream of doing anything about it. Also, does anyone else wish Mr. Butcher would use fewer names that start with "M"? Murphy, Molly, Mab, Merlin(ok, that one's a gimmie), Maeve, Mac, Michael, McCoy...
I always felt that it would be a lesser book, if not for the flashbacks, the Lash development, and the return of Cowl. The plot is more of a vehicle for that. And also more of Mouse being the bestest boy by waking up an entire building.
the thing about the dresden files is that jim writes theam in trilogies that are broken up over seprate books so almost every book is a bridge book or starting a new trilogy and a lot of books are ending one he writes the series so thear are usually three trilogies going on simultanieously
“Anger is just anger. It isn't good. It isn't bad. It just is. What you do with it is what matters. It's like anything else. You can use it to build or to destroy. You just have to make the choice." "Constructive anger," the demon said, her voice dripping sarcasm. Also known as passion," I said quietly. "Passion has overthrown tyrants and freed prisoners and slaves. Passion has brought justice where there was savagery. Passion has created freedom where there was nothing but fear. Passion has helped souls rise from the ashes of their horrible lives and build something better, stronger, more beautiful.”
Jim Butcher has said in interviews that Harry is an unreliable narrator. Some of the short stories help see through this, especially when written from another point of view. One way he's unreliable is that he sees himself as outmatched all the time, when in fact the White Council is right to fear him. Another, I think, is that the sexualized aspect that bothers you is because Harry's subconscious self (encountered in dreams) is right: he's very repressed, highly self-critical and judgmental, and so he narrates so as to make himself seem much creepier than others see. Both Murphy and Michael see him as a good man, but he doesn't.
The fact that those two not only like him but trust him is the reason I will NEVER say he is creepy dude that leers at young girls. Like others say. No one is harder on Harry then Harry himself.
Not one of my favourites in the series either. But mid-tier for this series is still a pretty enjoyable ride. IMO book 10 is a noticable improvement, 11 is really really good, and 12... actually best not to say much about Changes before you've read it. Other than to say that I find it really pleasing that the book named "changes" is the first book to break the two word title schema.
Love the spoiler reviews! I subscribed to this channel just for the Dresden Files content! It’s so much fun to watch someone else’s reaction to the series as it unfolds
For the Molly sexual stuff, I get the tension. Butcher had said that the Molly stuff in relation to Dresden was meant to make you feel uneasy, just as it makes Dresden uneasy. Besides that, she's always been portrayed as a rebellious, comfortably sexual character, even back before Proven Guilty. As a guy, I can say that myself and numerous of my friends have had to deal with someone like this, and those tensions. I think it's good writing, since you're in the head of a straight man.
Lash and Lasciel are essentially two different characters at this point. Lash is gone. She sacrificed herself and severed Harry's connection to the coin in the process. Lasciel is an immortal fallen angel, she could come back.
You're right about the difference between Lash and Lasciel. The difference is what makes it important to preserve the distinction in naming. Lasciel is the Fallen Angel bound to the coin, who might be able to return to the series one day. Lash was Lasciel's tool, a copy of Lasciel in Harry's head, meant to persuade him to take up the coin and enter a full partnership with Lasciel - and _Lash_ is dead and gone.
Pretty much spot on with Lash and Lasciel - except that Lash would not persist if Harry picked up the coin; he'd be talking to Lasciel directly at that point. I can give a more complete explanation, at small risk of very minor spoilers which this paragraph is explaining the nature and degree of. The lore with these books gets re-explained between books enough that it blurs together in a way that's hard to separate fully. I do know how to avoid pulling from notable future events that are larger than a conversation, though. So with that explained, if you're avoiding spoilers on that fine a level, do not read on. Everything regarding the mechanics of how Lasciel and the Denarians work is bound up in the concept of Free Will, which is a power that mortals have and Denarians do not have. The Denarians are bound in their coins and have *very* limited capacity to influence the world around them, except when borne by a person who has accepted the power they offer. (When they are borne, you get folks like Nicodemus and Ursiel from Book 5). Harry never accepted that power. What he did do was choose to touch the coin - this gave Lasciel the opportunity to create a ...salesperson... in Harry's mind: Lash. This mental salesperson is tasked with one duty: to convince the person they have been imprinted onto that they need to accept the Coin, by any means necessary. Lash tries a lot of different ways over the course of the last few books, but the most effective and the one we see the most is her augmentation of his capabilities. There's limits to what she can offer - she's only got the limits of what a human mind can accomplish to work with. In this universe, that's a LOT, but with the Coin, he'd have access to what Lasciel can do too, which is a whole new power set. An imprint like Lash is a hell of a sales pitch, but...that is to be expected in this situation. But once the sales pitch is successful, there's no need to keep the salesperson around, so they get erased. Lash and other entities like her are specifically not told about some of the perks that come from being in a human mind, like free will, adaptability, etc. This would, eventually, become counterproductive, because if such an entity develops enough individuality to see itself as something separate from the Denarian who created it, then it might decide that being absorbed into that Denarian and ceasing to exist would be not in its best interests. Harry's treatment of Lash, his giving her a distinct name, etc, is what encourages Lash to try exercising her free will to see if she has it. But this dissolution of the "salesperson" imprint is why we can have characters like Quintus Cassius who exist separately from the Denarian they used to work with. If Cassius still had his salesperson, he could have abandoned the coin back in Book 5, then used that imprint to call it back to him when it was convenient, just like how Lash offers Harry the chance to call his sealed coin to him in this book.
compleatly correct except lash isent purposfully not told about her ability to have free will she just dosent believe she can change she's been the way she is for a billion years or something the grudge is deep and old as time almost she knows she has free will she just dosent think it changes anything but she underestimated harry in a lot of ways and because of harry she is shown that shes wrong that not only can she technicaly change she has the willpower and desire to do so
This book did go up in scale for me on re-read, though it still only gets into B+ range. As others have confirmed, that IS pretty much how Lasciel/Lash work given our understanding through the unreliable narrator that is Harry. The only thing to add is that because the imprint Lash had a tiny portion of the original's essence, if Harry had actually taken up the coin Lash would have been absorbed back into the original Lasciel. That would result in transferring whatever knowledge and memories Lash created back to the original while losing her own individual identity. I will also say that Outsiders are... different. More along the lines of Lovecraftian horrors. I really enjoyed getting some reflections on the outside perspective of Harry in this book, and why the people who are supposed to be under his protection might actually be too afraid of him to reach out. The character dynamics between Harry, Murphy, and Molly were engaging and entertaining. In the scene with the fireball where Murphy calls Harry out on his anger towards Molly, Murph also talks about how Harry is setting a bad example of letting his anger get the best of him, even if only for a moment when he throws a fireball at a trashcan. That causes Harry to reevaluate his self-assessment and realize he's been slipping without noticing it. Once the book got past trying to set up Thomas I thought the mystery of whether or not Becket was involved was better than some of the other mysteries this series has given us. I agree that while there are a good number of stand-out moments, the overall book isn't in top consideration among others in the series. That being said, I find a pretty good Dresden Book to be a really good time.
At least you stick to your guns and don't stop giving reviews half-way through a series like some goblins. This book may not be the most impressive in the series but you've got me interested in reading the collection. After the Ancillary series of course. Thanks!
What I understood from the difference between Laciel and Lash was the one in Harry's mind was almost like a photo copy spell of her mind that Harry was able to alter with his personality because it was a partn9f his mind. Her sacrifice is the reason he can weird soulfire
Re: Lasciel - yep, pretty much! Way I picture it is like if you have a cell phone that's completely disconnected from its network and you mess around with the software that's on it, you can get it to do some wild stuff, but the second you connect it back up (i.e. if Harry ever took up the Coin) then the server updates wipe out your changes.
You described my struggle with this series so well in the beginning. I love the relationship dynamics, the slow burn character development, and the world building so much, but its really hard and sometimes really cringe to get through these scenes. It's so unfortunate because its otherwise SO good - I don't even feel like I can recommend it to anyone because those scenes are so bad. I haven't read the series in a bit, but I do remember thinking the uncomfortable parts die down a lot later on.
You were correct on the distinction between Lash and Lasciel. In the books Bob and Harry have a discussion about this at the very end and come to the conclusion that because Harry resisted her for so long while living in his brain she essentially picked up freewill. I DO NOT BUY THIS EXPLANATION. I won't go into detail because I don't want to spoil you, but this is one of the examples that I use when explaining what Harry is, and what I think he is going to have to do in the end game. Even 17 books in we still don't have a clear understanding of some of these mysteries, which I think is why it has such a rabid fandom. I know in a earlier review you said you started reading these because someone assured you that there's more going on than just a monster of the week type series. So I wanted to point out something Lasciel said in this book that you didn't mention in the review. This isn't the first hint that Harry is something more, but it is probably the first time it was stated so bluntly. During the battle when Lash slows down time: >“An Outsider,” Lasciel said. “I have felt such a presence before. This attack is drawn directly from the mind of the Outsider.” >Gosh, that was interesting. Not relevant, but interesting. >“It is relevant,” Lasciel said, “because of the circumstances of your birth-because of why you were born, Harry. Your mother found the strength to escape Lord Raith for a reason.” >What the hell was she talking about? >Thud-thump: 1:26. >“There was a complex confluence of events, of energies, of circumstances that would have given a child born under them the potential to wield power over Outsiders.”
Marcone is one of my favorite characters. He is so complex, that he adds a lot. You are pretty close to understanding Lash, rather than Lashciel. But, yes, Lash is her own person.
I've read the series multiple times and as a woman there are aspects that are certainly not necessary and uncomfortable, but then there are battles (especially later) that are some of the best fantasy writing I've read (and I read over 150 books a year). I appreciate your spoiler reviews as they are a welcome recap to things and appear very fair to me as a lover of the series despite issues that I acknowledge. I will say, the Molly stuff gets better, but it shouldn't have had to.
Yes, you are correct about the distinction between Lasciel and Lash who is an imprint on Harry's mind. There are truly wonderful consequences from that moment. I can't wait for you to get there. The Molly and Harry stuff never truly goes away, I don't think it continues to be quite as sexual but there is definitely a repressed attraction that carries through the series. I think in Butcher's mind he's thinking that Harry is doing the right thing and their relationship is different than a normal father figure and young girl because they are wizards and they are going to live for hundreds of years and once you live for two hundred years a distance of twenty years doesn't see quite so great. I could be totally wrong about that, but that's my feeling on the situation. White Night is a book I love, but I don't know if I would put it at the top of the list. Each of the books post Death Masks have really deep themes and I end up taking a lot of away from them other than the pure entertainment of this series. They give you good questions to chew on, which is something that matters a lot to me as a reader. The events in this book also have farther reaching impacts than you realize at first and this one is pretty good on the reread when you realize the struggle Lasciel is going through. It is kind of her book. You are also about to get to the true ramp up of the series before book 12 (Changes) where everything gets tipped upside down. Books 10, 11 and 12 are all really good rides (if my memory serves me correctly) and I bet you'll really enjoy them. Oh, one last thought. When Harry starts training her you really start to see how abusive the training methods were that were used on him. Remember he was the apprentice to Justin DuMorne (super abusive master) and then apprenticed to McCoy who was so afraid of losing another apprentice that he pushed Harry to the brink. There is a dynamic of breaking the cycle of abuse that becomes visible when you see Harry try to train Molly and he has to overcome some of his own hurts in order to be a better mentor.
its also the whole if you know somebody as an atractive adult friend equal for well over 200 hundred years while being steadily alienated from all other possobilitys 1 dose it matter that you saw theam grow up so long ago its just a fuzzy memory 2 they become the only person who dosent die out from under you that you like respect and are closest to outside of mayby thomas and come on whens the last time 2 single good loking people with compatible sexual orientation ccould be friends for a lifetime without banging at some point and they will be single a large portion of that time considering mollys situation and harrys general tendency to spend long periods single and butchers tendency to kill off his love interests
oh its also used to gage dresdens dificulty in dealing with the corupting influences in his life the more corupted the harder it is to resist molly and that eventually turns into an adult molly who knows full well what shes doing what she wants in a healthy way and isent super hung up about it kinda the way karen is at this point and most importantly os no longe in the uncomfterable powerdynamic that exist as his niev apprentice relying on him for protection
@@sexylexy22100 All good points. I hope Butcher doesn't kill off Molly though. She's one of my favorite characters. I am ok with her and Dresden getting together when Molly is in her late 40s and Dresden is in his 60s. Because at that point I'm not sure how much the age difference matters.
@@sexylexy22100 The power dynamic thing is a good point. I'm glad he didn't cross any lines when he was the mentor because the power dynamics would have made it icky. Once they are both powerful entities in the Winter Court and they have a aged several decades the dynamics could have entirely changed.
Merphy, White Night left me pretty cold on the first read (likely the second as well), but having read it now, means you will embark on small favors next month, strap in for a roller coaster ride.
Love your Dresden reviews. I enjoy your excitement! I soooooooooooo can't wait until you catch up. Your heads going to explode! As to "those" type of scenes. I'll be honest, they never hit me the way it did you, and thanks for sharing. It opened my eyes a wee bit about that 'ick' dynamic. I'm also an author, and that insight is (now) invaluable.
I have a theory about Elaine. It's 100% just my personal theory, and I came up with it while reading this book. It's completely based on this book, and previous books only. I'm saying this to be 100% clear that this is not a spoiler of some kind, and is just something I come up with based on a few lines from this book and Dead Beat. My theory is that Elaine is Kumori. I know it sounds crazy, but in my head at least, it makes sense. Elain is clearly hiding something from Harry, but she also clearly cares about him a great deal, yet in spite of her feelings towards him, she never once asks what happened to his hand. This is supposed to be the first time she's seen him since Summer Night, yet she's not even a little bit curious or even surprised about why his left hand is burnt to a crisp? Also, Kumori was far less blood thirsty that the other Necromancers, and she generally tried to avoid conflict with Harry when possible. When Harry encounters her on the stairs of the abandoned building, she tried to talk him into walking away, and asked him about his hand, showing real concern... the type of concern Elaine should have shown. Jim also made the comment once, that Elaine has been in more books than we (the readers) realize. Again, this is just a theory, and I could be reading too much into these events.
Yeah Elaine is the most likely suspect as far as most of the fandom is concerned. There's not a long list of female wizards that would care about Harry like Kumori seems to in DB. Then in this book Cowl is back, but no Kumori. And just by coincidence Elaine is involved in the plot and was originally trying to hide from Dresden. It's suspicious. The thing is she seems to be working directly against Cowl's plan in this book. So the going theory is she's still enthralled and doesn't even know it herself. Because her monologue about how she won't let anyone else control her again is BS if she follows a literal dark master in Cowl. As far as the hand goes, Dresden did mention to her he had a flame thrower incident when they got to the docks. She wouldn't have seen his burns until right after that fight when she heals him. So it's possible she connected the dots while he was unconscious and didn't have a reason to bring it up. Personally I think E = K is possibly a red herring. Butcher put in enough hints to make people believe it, but Kumori's identity and whatever Elaine's deal is are actually two different unpredictable twists. But this is the first I'm hearing about Jim saying Elaine's been in more books than we think, that seems like a big give away tbh. Slight spoilers for the rest of the series: Have you noticed Elaine only appears, undisguised and not in flashbacks, in books with knight or night in the title? The WIP titles of the rest of the series are known too. It suggests just how big of a role Elaine will play if this pattern is real.
I feel like Butcher jumped forward 2 years just to get Molly over 18. It's probably actually based on the release date but still it's pretty convenient.
The blowout battle at the end is one of my favorite of the series, which is why it always ranked pretty high on the list for me. In retrospect, it's dropped a bit for all the reasons you mentioned, as I realized it was *primarily* because of that battle and the aftermath that I liked it so much. The scene after the battle with Lara, is amazing. "I will kill you with peace, Wizard" By the way, you didn't say what you thought of the reveal that Thomas is feeding indirectly off his clients in his new hair salon, and his new persona. Thoughts?
Man I love Marcone. He’s such a fantastic character. Also yes, basically right for Lash. You find out more details that go deeper later on. Hopefully that wasn’t too spoilery.
Fantastic review. I want to like the character of Molly but the way she keeps getting sexualized really decreases the enjoyment of books with her in them so far, removing at least 1 star from my ratings for a total of 3.5 stars out of 5. Lash is gone forever as she only exixted in Harry's mind. Even if Harry touched the same coin again it would create a different version or clone of Lasciel. It's easy to confuse the two last names but it's Susan Rodriguez (half-vampire) and Carlos Ramirez (warden).
I love listening to you and your reports about these books 📚 prayers and blessings for you and your husband and your family love your Aussie family friend John ❤❤❤keep up your wonderful work
Marcone is the perfect LE "The Prince" character. Manipulative, has a code, but utterly ruthless. Yes, he's evil. But he's definitely better than the devils and vampires. So...yay?
For me this is the worst (or least good, if you will) DF book. Every single other book is way better, so I'm glad you already read it. I'm hoping you LOVE the next one, for me it's freaking top tier. Actually, all the following books are AMAZING :D
Per Lasciel, you got it right. Lash was like a copy or a clone with a greatly diminished status. Mental shadow, not Fallen Angel. Lasciel, the Fallen Angel proper, is fine, still bound to the coin. She could certainly show up again. Lash took a bullet for Dresden, but Lasciel did not. This book was one I was pretty meh about when I first read it, but I enjoy more each reread. The Raith Deeps scene is one of my favorite showdowns in the series. Didn't hear you mention Cowl's reappearance. Any thoughts on that?
Agreed. Um I don't think it gets that explicit with Molly again, but I also don't think it goes away. Outsiders aren't black court things. Can't say more because I don't want my comments deleted again. Also again if my other comments have gone against your guidelines I do apologize, it was unintentional. I love your reviews and other videos. But I'm still newer to the genre and can't comment on other works because I just haven't read enough. I hope you keep enjoying the Dresden Files!
Merphy with 🧢 has serious thoughts. 🤓Lash won’t return in that form. And that form wasn’t that strong as the original. I was so sure that you will bring up Molly’s fantastic scene. 😂😂 Fortunately as far as I remember this is not a common thing in the following books. 😂She will have bigger things to deal with.
I didn't think you would like this one as much. Reading it again with you in mind made me cringe on your behalf. It really doesn't bother me and I am so sorry it makes you uncomfortable. Some scenes that people would find cringy do still happen through out the books. Molly is an adult as far as the books are concerned and she just continues to get older. She is a sexual creature and tries to push that boundary with Harry but... like... in an almost casual off to the side kind of way. I don't think it's ever direct, again. His reactions are in his head and he does not communicate them to Molly but you do know that he has them. All that being said, tiny spoiler to make you feel better... you never have to worry about Harry giving in to that pressure, for a variety of reasons. Marcone is a Feudal lord. He accepts what he cannot change, changes what he can, makes his money and apologizes for none of it. Lash is a photo copy, a spiritual clone. She started out as completely Lashiel but, under Harry's influence, she became Lash. Lasciel is an eternal being that literally cannot change but that isn't true of a construct. Especially not one stamped into a mutable substance. Lash would have been reabsorbed into Lasciel, would have died either way, whether Harry took the coin or didn't. So Lash decided to die as herself and protect Harry. Harry was, essentially refusing to sacrifice himself OR Lash to the coin in order to live. So Lash decided to allow some part of them both to live. There is more to the story but that is at least one if not two books ahead. That being said, Lash is part of Harry's anger issues because she has been inflaming his Double's (his subconscious) sense of injustice. Constantly nagging about the unfairness of the world he lives in, though at the end it is revealed that it has turned into a dialogue rather than a one sided temptation and refusal. She was still doing her job and ... really, what she thought was right, I think. She saw Harry's struggle and was like, "But if you take up the coin you can literally fix all of this!" and I don't think she really understood till the very end why Harry didn't just do it. You have to have free will in order to really grasp why someone like Harry would do what he does and wouldn't want to lose himself to a Fallen's influence. It is my favorite scene in the book. That and the last one. :D Outsiders are from literally Outside reality. They are the inhabitants of the spaces between worlds. They are not allowed inside reality. Again, more on that later, you do find out more. They do have something to do with the Black Council but... yeah.
There is one other scene in book 11 that sexualises Molly, but it's not as bad as the scenes in book 8 and 9. Your understand of Lash is correct. The outsiders are complicated. You will need to start reading the shorts, after the next book would be a good time to start. You'll really like them.
Regarding Molly, I believe the instances of things that will annoy you, like the scene in this book did, are fairly few and far between. None that I can think of are to the same level. After your last Dresden review, the scene in this book is the main one I could think that you would probably be similarly annoyed by. Harry will continue to note how beautiful Molly is, but in a more subdued way, probably more comparable to the way he describes Murphy or Charity Carpenter than the way he describes the average bombshell we encounter. Other than that, there are maybe 2-3 scenes I can think of that might annoy you, but they are quite minor and only involve Harry insofar as the books are from his perspective. Not giving anything away, but Molly and Harry's relationship evolves quite a bit over the course of the series, and not all of the present dynamics remain consistent. Overall, I do not believe you will be at all offended either by Molly's character arc or by the way her relationship with Harry develops.
Continue on, as everyone will have told you already: "Changes" will rock your world... and that world will keep getting vaster (is that a word?) and vaster.
Lash vs Lasciel, Lash is more or less a watered down copy of Lasciel, the purpose of which is to make Harry want to make the choice to take up the coin and "fully" join/bond with the fallen angel. The thing is that she's separate from the whole, so she can act somewhat independently of Lasciel's direction. Harry has now severed himself from the coin, but as the coin still exists, there's always possibilities of it returning. One kind of sidenote, the Outsiders are being used, more or less, by the Black Court, they are not "members" as such. You will get more lore behind it going forward and to avoid spoiling anything, in this instance they are more or less tools being used by the bad guys.
Assume you got a little mixed up when you talked about the Outsiders, as they are not part of the Black Court of vampires, but they appear to be associated with the Black Council, the secret alliance of villains.
You have understand the Lash/Shadow of Lassiel thing just fine! White Night was pretty okay for me. Ditto the ick factor with regards to Molly; had a few really stand out scenes, same as the ones you listed, plus the final fight in the Raith Deeps.
How old is this video? You guys are way behind. I devower the Dresden Files, I'm waiting for the new book not published yet, the one after the war. There is not a thing I don't like about Dresden. Those guys who tried to make the TV show disappointed me, they clearly never read the books.
Yeah, White Night is pretty mid. I like the flashback to the training camp. I like the scene with the fireball and Molly, and Carlos is always a delight. And I like Lara as a character, but there are some pretty big problems with the book that keep it from being one of the best. But as others have said even mid-tier Dresden books make for good reads.
Due to the A plot in this book, White Knight is one of my least favorite in the series. Not bad, mind you. Some of the stuff with Molly and Lash was great. But the stuff with the killer and the women was underwhelming compared to previous books. I also don’t find any white court not named Wraith to be interesting at all. Sets up a lot of good stuff and the next few books are some of the best in the series though!
The relationship between Harry and Molly remains complicated like that. However, Molly matures A LOT through the series, so the dynamic shifts while the "potential ship" status remains open. I also like Lara a lot. This is one of the most important books for her character because this is the first time we have direct contact with her after she regained her freedom. This book pretty much makes or breaks a person's opinion of her character. For some people, she remains an interesting antagonist with her femme fatale shtick but also fighting for the good guys (the same dynamic of "lesser evil" with Marcone, but his negative impact on the world is far larger than hers), while other people, rightfully so, gain a complete dislike for her after her plan of using low level magic practitioners as bait. Personally, Lara is one of my favorite characters because she's incredibly likeable and she's a great example of a femme fatale (which is a trope I like, tbh), but I do not excuse her awful actions at all. She has done many terrible things, even if in the context of the series, they're outliers. I mean, Marcone runs a large scale organized crime empire, his empire probably kills dozens of people per day directly and indirectly (he's introduced as a Mob boss with reach into multiple cities and all kinds of businesses).
I dont remember any more scenes as out of pocket as that one with molly and the sex corpse. The will-they wont-they hangs around a little but it matures as Molly does and so gets less loud. Cant really clarify without spoilers but I think it ends up adding nuance to things rather than being distracting.
the whole thing with molly not only tones down but whats left gets more mature and way less icky fealing as surcomstances and power dynamics change between theam and molly grows up a lot
i started listening to the books again(marsters"spike" does an awesome job) to follow these reviews., yes there is some cringe in the series. but dont give up on them!
Yeah, this is one of two books in this series that, when I see the title, my brain draws a blank and I say, “what even happened in that book?” It’s not bad. But also not great.
it had some good stuff, but i always forget which one it is until i get started in it. on my own personal ranking i have it sitting at 13th in the series (out of 17 books).
I personally love all the books, but definitely understand why this one is lower for some. The good news? Small Favor it is next. That is a top tier Dresden book.
Yeah. I feel like this one is a plateau book in the series. And the next is a spike! Such a bummer we will have to wait a month to hear what you think…
Great little review, and yeah I would rate this one kind of middle of the road although I do appreciate getting to learn a little more about the White Court dynamics and seeing Apprentice Molly for the first time. But here's the thing, even mediocre Dresden is still just immensely enjoyable and such an easy, fun read. There's so little to dislike about Dresden books and while some of the books don't grab you as much or don't resonate the same with the big plot beats, there's always going to be those character development moments and inner monologue moments and relationship dynamics that are always growing and evolving so it's always a good time.
I think your opinion on this one is totally fair. It's pretty mid tier for me. Not skippable on rereads because it does have important happenings in it like you said but I don't look forward to it when I'm going through the series. It does have one of my favorite burns in the entire series though. "Yeah. Some Listerine. I have a funny taste in my mouth!" OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH Apply ice directly to the burned location! Also I tend to have a higher opinion of Marcone than most. A lot of the business he's engaged in (drugs and prostitution namely) are things I don't think should be illegal in the first place. It sucks that he has to use violence to enforce his will but that's what happens when government illegitimately tells grown adults what they can and can't do to their own bodies, it creates a black market and force is the only way you have to solve disputes in a black market. Marcone does what he has to but he goes out of his way to be as moral about it as possible, he doesn't allow human sex trafficking in his territory, he brutally punishes people who try selling drugs to kids. These are things that make his job more difficult and less profitable but he does them anyway just because he has scruples. In a different world where these activities aren't illegal Marcone would probably be considered an upstanding pillar of the community.
White Night was an odd one for me, because it *is* one of the "weaker" books in the series, but it sets up a lot of things for later books (especially some subtler character notes) that make it very important to the series as a whole.
You are 100% correct on your interpretation of the events concerning Laschiel/Lash. That’s pretty much exactly what happened This book is definitely on the weaker side, so excited to see your thoughts on the next 3 books though, you’re in for a ride!
I rather like Marcone, and feel that, once we learn of his backstory (it hasn't come out yeat, it's conjecture from me), we'll be a lot more sympathetic of him. I always figured his anger in this book was caused by Lashiel. Again, just a theory.
>I always figured his anger in this book was caused by Lashiel. Again, just a theory. This is heavily implied, although it only becomes clear with multiple rereads. You can see the bursts of anger begin in Blood Rites, right around the time Hellfire comes into play.
This was actually the first one I read, because the hardcover was on clearance. It hooked me enough that I immediately went back to the beginning and caught up.
First of all, it's "Lara," not "Laura." Secondly, Lash sacrificed herself, so she's not coming back, but Lasciel can still turn up in later books. I enjoy this book, but it's not up there with my favourites. I love the duel scene, where we get to see two of the more powerful young wizards go at least mostly all out. Harry couldn't, because of the danger to the humans in the crowd, but it was great to see how different wizards approach combat. Small Favor is next. It's a big one, in terms of scope. No spoilers, of course, but you're going to feel the feels.
Really enjoyed this spoiler review! For me it was solid but the last book before Butcher ascended to a higher realm as a writer, where the books never stop becoming special. I do think the Molly specialized stuff is much less prominent going forward.
![White Night [Spoiler] Review | Dresden Files by Jim Butcher](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
