Two of my favorite apologists. We are so blessed at this time in history to have so many brilliant Christian scholars. Others include Dr. Hugh Ross, Dr. John Lennox, Dr. Gary Habermas, Dr. Sean McDowell, and I could name quite a few more. Feel free to add more to the list.
William lane Craig is a philosophical giant of our day! A lot of what he says goes over peoples heads but if you actually listen and keep up, he answers so many misunderstandings of Christian theology and beliefs. He’s honestly a genius! He definitely doesn’t get enough credit and seeing you 2 together is even more amazing! He even schooled jordan Peterson on some topics about Christianity~ their conversation was cut short but it was getting good~ they didn’t argue~ Jordan was just stuck on a particular thought~ and William lane Craig was being very patient and trying to get Jordan to see the answer
Two of my favorite apologists together! Both Frank and Bill live up to 1 Peter 3:15, by giving firm defenses of the faith, with gentleness and respect. Both illustrate the usefulness of applying all the Humanities (especially Philosophy) and Sciences (e.g., Astronomy and Physics) to discussions about Apologetics. I enjoy their winsome, non-arrogant approach, and especially think Frank's sense of humor is a natural magnet to the agnostic mind! Thanks for this fine conversation fellows!
For non-Christians musing the comments, I want to hear from you. I have a several questions below that I would like to hear your thoughts on. 1) What is your current understanding of Christianity? (Content, not cultural or societal impact). 2) Based on what you understand, have heard, or observed in Christians, would you consider happiness/joy to be a foundational part of Christianity? 3) Would you consider being a ‘good’ person different from being a joyful person? Same? 4) Think about all the desires that make you happy/joyful (i.e. eating food, sex, walking a dog, how you treat a friend, how you treat an enemy, anything). Would you say those desires align with truth, or some objective standard of goodness? Or is it preferential? Somewhere in between? 5) Have you ever had a moment where you resisted a desire because it conflicted with your conscience (i.e. what you believe to be true and good)? 6) Is a waterfall glistening in a sunset an objectively beautiful thing, or subjective?
Just on the last part of the discussion in regards to mathematics in the universe and therefore mathematics is considered the universal language This reminded me of Pslam 19 The heavens declare the glory of God and the sky above proclaim his handiwork Day to day pours out SPEECH and night to night reveals knowledge There is no SPEECH nor are there words whose voice is not heard
Always glad to see how sound and precise Bill is regarding the KCA. I just feel sorry for the narrow-minded people who can't see the great truths he blessed us with.
The truth is that we exist in a natural universe and not a magical one. An argument from ignorance and incredulity doesn't prove that magical entities in other dimensions exist.
@@TheTruthKiwi most likely again... either you know or you dont. Make a claim of certainty. Nature did not create itself from nothing. Im 100% certain. Its self refuting, since truth is absolute. Its like you believing that no one can know anything for certain...
The title of the video is "Who created and fine tuned the universe? with Dr William Lane Craig". So they used the question begging fallacy in the title. I'm not shocked though.
Ur obviously not listening. The idea here is that the universe has a cause, per kalam. So asking what is the nature of that cause doesn't beg the question at all. It would have been a question begging fallacy had they assumed without reason or sound argumentation that the universe has a cause. But clearly that wasn't the case.
@domssabado9588 What?! Uh no, it's a begging the question fallacy as the title clearly says "WHO created and FINE TUNED the universe? with Dr William Lane Craig". The title presupposes both agency and that the universe is actually fine tuned. Beyond that, the premise that the universe had a cause is not sound. So they are actually are "assuming without reason or sound argumentation" that the universe had a cause. The Kalam cosmological argument is flawed; it is neither sound nor valid as a syllogistic argument. Perhaps it you who are not listening.
Had a thought about why, exactly, theoreticians would rather not attribute the connection of math with physical reality to divine involvement. Maybe they believe the inner drive they need to advance their work would be evaporated by such a realization. Ayn Rand says all advancement in any field is driven by ego: This is my work. These are my discoveries and my accomplishments. These build my confidence in and belief in myself. It is my work that makes me more me. Rand was of course a stone cold materialists. (Or so she claimed. In her novels she recourses to the immaterial for purposes of metaphorical imagery.) Could a cosmologist continue seeking without an egoistic impulse? Would acknowledging the Creator evaporate personal drive? I think it might for some. However the reverse was true for Newton and other greats of the past. By doing their work, Newton and his ilk claimed not to seeking a greater image of themselves for themselves; they were very publicly and explicitly seeking a clearer understanding of God.
The reason that most theorists don't believe that the laws of nature had a "divine origin" is that it's completely unnecessary. For example, take Maxwell's equations. They describe the behavior of the electromagnetic field and the *laws* of classical electromagnetism, but Maxwell also *derived them mathematically* and published his derivations in the 1860s along with the theory itself. Another example is Noether's theorem, which proves that Conservation laws (such as conservation of mass, momentum, etc) are due to what's called a "continuous symmetry" of the system in question. In short, if you can logically prove that something (such as the laws of nature) *must* be the way that it is, then it obviously didn't have a supernatural origin. Anyone with an even reasonable understanding of math and physics will understand that suggesting that the laws of nature had a divine/supernatural origin is absolutely silly.
@@anthonyhudson2265 You cannot prove, and no claims to have proven, that the laws of nature must be what they are. On the contrary, the thing that makes the fine tuning argument compelling is the very fact that the laws need not be what they are. You should actually watch the above video.
If there's a multi verse that in one of the infinite universes there's a God that in all of those universes that God exists. We believe that the existence of a spiritual realm not a multi verse but it is a separate realm of existence.
Why focus on multiverse as a counter-argument may be life will also exists with different fine tuning may be not on earth but somewhere else and totally different i don't see the problem. Every combinations if constants provided that their exists is fine tune (by definition of their existence)
Out of the possible worlds, the proportion that wouldn’t already have ripped apart or collapsed is like a fly speck on a barn door. That’s just a start. For a fuller understanding, you should read Return of the God Hypothesis by Stephen Meyer. The odds against a life-compatible universe make “astronomical odds” look like a freckle on a flea’s leg in comparison.
scuse me you kick right off with claiming physical eternal nature. No citation of why. 2nd law of TD says either something pumped up PE or just outright created it. matter is harmonically bound em energy so God possessed or created that energy. We only understand some about it all; not even what it is really.
Hey! It's "Low Bar" Bill Craig! Is he explaining again how he will disregard evidence as long as he is convinced "in his heart" that the Holy Spirit has told him the truth?
@@TheTruthKiwi I don't think they are insincere, though. I know people like them, and they can be completely convinced of their religious truth and completely oblivious to the fact that even though they might *_feel_* it is true, that does not actually mean it *_is_* true. What worries me is when people like Dr. Turek are trying to get their kids involved in their ministry. Only rarely does that turn out well.
NAH you're just being honest that you being unconvinced is enough for everyone else to be unconvinced. It's good to see Dr William Lane Craig. I'm glad I listened to Dr Bart Erhman's lectures and read his books on mythicism and ancient Jewish history because it let me see through the arguments of many Atheists, secular humanists and agnostics. AMEN brothers and sisters in Christ our Lord and God bless brother Frank Turek's and Cross Examined ministry's Apologetics ministry I just wanted to let you all know how much of an influence he's been in my work in Christian Apologetics these past few months. Atheism is nuts it's a nonsensical conclusion that Atheists use science to come to having Creation without a Creator just a creative Force that inexplicably came about on it's own without guidance, consistency or assurance of it's success or purpose just random irrational events that they worship because it cancels out the moral accountability and responsibility that they would have to a Creator. Thanks to The Lord our God for preserving His Word through the centuries of history in The Bible so Christians and Apologists can do Good in uploading these videos. This ministry always does good work in your efforts in the furtherance of The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ you're reaching thousands to millions of people who are seeking after The Truth of God's Existence, Word and Character in our reality 🙏❤️👊. This has nothing and everything to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a fellow Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't. I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict. Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers. Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word. Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
@@justingary5322 You said: _"NAH you're just being honest that you being unconvinced is enough for everyone else to be unconvinced."_ No, the point is that the available evidence does not meet the standard to be regarded as sufficient or appropriate. If it were, we could not be having this disagreement. You said: _"AMEN brothers and sisters in Christ our Lord and God bless brother Frank Turek's and Cross Examined ministry's Apologetics ministry... etc. etc."_ I say: Spam.
It's good to see Dr William Lane Craig. I'm glad I listened to Dr Bart Erhman's lectures and read his books on mythicism and ancient Jewish history because it let me see through the arguments of many Atheists, secular humanists and agnostics. AMEN brothers and sisters in Christ our Lord and God bless brother Frank Turek's and Cross Examined ministry's Apologetics ministry I just wanted to let you all know how much of an influence he's been in my work in Christian Apologetics these past few months. Atheism is nuts it's a nonsensical conclusion that Atheists use science to come to having Creation without a Creator just a creative Force that inexplicably came about on it's own without guidance, consistency or assurance of it's success or purpose just random irrational events that they worship because it cancels out the moral accountability and responsibility that they would have to a Creator. Thanks to The Lord our God for preserving His Word through the centuries of history in The Bible so Christians and Apologists can do Good in uploading these videos. This ministry always does good work in your efforts in the furtherance of The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ you're reaching thousands to millions of people who are seeking after The Truth of God's Existence, Word and Character in our reality 🙏❤️👊. This has nothing and everything to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a fellow Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't. I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict. Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers. Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word. Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
@@TheTruthKiwi yes, agreed. I was wondering if such is the case why is Frank Turek interviewing him as an authority of biblical scholarship. I'm very surprised with Frank
Since nobody here bothered to say it, when it comes to Genesis the reason people have a problem with Craig is because he doesent hold a young earth view, and he also views genesis 1-12 as mytho history - which is an unfortunate term because it doesent mean what you think it means. So no, he believes the God of the Bible created the world, however he doesent believe that the genesis account of creation was supposed to be taken hyper literally, and that genesis doesent force us to commit to very many things. He takes his approach because for many people modern science is a huge stumbling block for many people, WLC attempts to harmonize the two. Quite successfully I would say.
@@therick363 Wow, so ignorant. Do you believe the universe had a beginning? If so, you also believe there is an uncaused first cause of the universe. Any other answer doesn't work. So what are you on about? SMH
Seeing this video includes 2 Christians, posted to a Christian RU-vid channel that has a Christian audience that believes in the Christian god, makes me wonder whats point in even asking the question because you already believe you have the answer
@@TheTruthKiwi “their superstition and woo woo”…come on, there’s a better way to respectfully say things if you are only interested in truth. You reveal too much. Like I say you sound hurt.
John 1;1 in the beginning was the word....words provide information ..information creates ..information comes from a mind...what other explanation could there be?
The universe and life most likely originated naturally and wasn't poofed into existence by some omnipotent entity from another dimension. Pretty much every isolated civilisation on earth has made up its own myths and legends regarding origins. It is human nature to make stuff up when we don't have all the facts.
@@TheTruthKiwi *Most likely* doesn't prove or verify your claim does it? Do you even realize the absurdity of what you're saying? You're saying the universe was *most likely poofed* into existence *naturally* rather then being *poofed* into existence by a Creator.
@@T0Mmichael1234 Things originate naturally every day and nothing supernatural has ever been shown or proven to exist whatsoever. Out of the nearly 8 billion people on this planet and the millions that have gone before NOT ONE PERSON knows exactly what existed or occurred prior to the Big Bang or the Planck Epoch to be more specific. If anyone claims that they do know then they are deluded or are being dishonest, probably both.
I'm grateful to God and thankful to Mrs Olivia Renae Marks trading services, Their services are very genius and experienced in the market for over a decade and counting, they changed my life from a poor plumber to a better and middle class family man with 2kids.
@@benitaalmond3991 The puddle and hole came from Phooey Poppycock, Prince of the Purple Pixies. And I have exactly as much credible evidence for that assertion as Christians have that this 'God' they worship created and fine-tuned the universe. But you'll disagree nonetheless. It is call 'faith' afterall.
@@Theo_Skeptomai You believe that something can come from nothing and a frog can turn into a prince - you believe in more magic than I do and you need a lot more FAITH!
You can't add numbers together and get to infinity Frank and Bill. In the same way you can't subtract years from infinity and get back to the beginning. I know you both understand this. And yet you still keep making this argument as if infinity was a number. As a philosopher, you have to understand this Bill. So you're either being misleading, or dishonest. Take you pick...
I don’t think you understand what he’s saying. In fact, what you said is in agreement with what he said. Namely, an infinitely old universe is impossible because traversing from a infinitely distant past to this point in time is impossible. Infinity cannot exist in reality. He explains the math in detail in his works (e.g., his book Reasonable Faith and his lectures Defenders Class). As a retired aerospace engineer, I can verify his math. He (Craig) knows what he’s talking about.
@@nickbrasing8786 Context. When we say God is infinite, we usually use ‘infinite’ as a colloquialism. We do the same thing when we say the universe is infinite, even though it isn’t. From where we are, and within the bounds of our reach, as a mathematical approximation, we ca treat both as if they are infinite. Another aspect is that the clause “God is infinite” does not state which attributes are infinite and whether you’re talking about within space-time or within God’s native, timeless existence. When people want to be precise, they use terms such as omniscience, omnipotence, and everlasting. When you explore each branch of the subject, you find a lot of debates that we will never be able to have certainty about because our frame of reference is too limited. There are additional distinctions in the answer to your question that would take an entire lecture to spell out. (And Dr Craig has answered it in detail in his books and lectures.) I hope you’re not going to insist on a bumper sticker answer when the answer requires nuance.
@@ricksonora6656 Oh I completely agree it's a complicated answer and requires nuance. 100% agree. Just like infinity. And other than the "omni" characteristics assigned to God, I don't know why you can't apply everything you said to the cosmos itself. Otherwise how is this just not a case of special pleading? Things can apply to God but not the universe? And as you no doubt know, saying things like "God’s native, timeless existence" are itself problematic. Isn't existence temporal? What does it mean to exist for zero seconds? How is this not the same issue as "what came before the big bang, when time began existing in our universe"? Asking what came "before" time is just a problematic question. Just like "existing" outside of time. Now we're into philosophy and not math or science. To me, we each have to come down to one brute fact. To you (I presume) is that God has always existed (a kind of infinity), and to me energy has always existed (a kind of infinity). But I can easily demonstrate that energy exists. You can't do the same for God. And discussion about "fine tuning" and "the impossibility of infinity" (which kind of seems to apply to the universe but not God) doesn't provide the level of evidence that turning on my stove does. Context. So I just wait. And not for a bumper sticker. I actually do look into this and understand it to the best of my ability. On both the science and theology side of the argument. One is just more compelling to me.
Atheist claim atheism is just a "lack of belief" so atheism has nothing to do with "lack of evidence" it just a personal opinion. If the individual atheist in nor convinced by the evidence that doesn't mean the evidence is not valid.
Completely wrong. A-bigfootism would be a lack of belief in Bigfoot. And it has everything to do with the lack of evidence. Even though there is far more evidence for Bigfoot than there is Jesus being god.
BS. I was the one that corrected YOU on this very point when I expressed to you that my position of atheism is not based on a lack of _belief,_ but on a lack of _evidence._ And now you're going to adopt my point snd twist it to your ridiculous narrative. You will stop at nothing. BTW, this is your cue to deny everything and protest "I haven't any idea what you're talking about".
Evidence that is concocted from fallacious argument is NOT valid. And evidence that is not introduced n the first place cannot even be _considered_ to be valid, can it? So, for the umpteenth time, please dodge the following straightforward question: Are you aware of ANY _evidentiary facts or sound argument that demonstrates_ this god of your devotion is a reality? YES or NO.
I remember Jehovah’s witnesses at my door when I was about 11 years old reading from their bible and assuming everything it said was true. They seemed completely brainwashed and I couldn’t understand why they would just assume what was in their bible was true.
In light of the mountain of evidence for the resurrection, it would take faaaaar more faith to maintain one's atheism. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.
Yeah that huge mountain of evidence. I will be in the front row applauding when you get your Nobel Prize after your peer reviewed findings are critiqued and accepted.
@@therick363 I keep being asked for evidence that God exists and created the universe, so I'm thinking turn about is only fair. Provide evidence for the materialists view.
@@stevenwiederholt7000 well I was asking you a question to make sure I understood what you were asking. The point os those who make the claim need to provide evidence for it don’t they? Also, where did I say I’m a materialist? Naturalist sure, but that didn’t automatically make me a materialist. But if you want some evidence-all we observe, measure, record and find are natural causes, events, effects and reasons and explanations for things. So it seems very likely there is a natural explanation for the universe.
Really?!? Please explain the methodology you employed to reach this conclusion. Time to dodge this straightforward request by presenting some red herring response and putting your fingers in your ears, throwing a tantrum, quoting scripture, proselytizing again, before cowering away rather than simply responding directly to this request.
@@Kltarver What do any of those items have to do with your methodology of determining this Jesus knows? Have YOU determined that the universe was created and fine-tuned?
@Festus Haggen: “You have to really not want God to exist to credit all creation” You must really want god to exit, with no evidence, no proof, nothing but indoctrinated superstition and fear of the evil deity.
Please note they never use the words evidence or facts it is all philosophical warm wind and therefore it is called ARGUMENT. “What are the 5 cosmological ARGUMENTS? The arguments are often named as follows:” “(1) argument from motion, (2) argument from an efficient cause, (3) argument from necessary being, (4) argument from gradations of goodness, (5) argument from design.”
If one proposes the universe happened by accident, as naturalists do, that one looks for evidence of such (good luck with that:). If on the other hand one proposes it was designed by a necessary being then one looks for evidence of design i.e. the cosmological fine tuning which even the materialist admit exists.
@@williamrice3052 Have you heard of Douglas Adams' puddle analogy? If not I recommend looking it up. Also, I'm pretty sure the big bang was a natural occurrence. Where's the evidence of any gods causing it? Also, how do you know that the universe isn't in a natural, continuous loop? Perhaps as the last universe expanded and reached maximum entropy it then collapsed into a singularity. As the singularity reached maximum density it then expanded again into our universe, and the cycle continues... That is almost infinitely more likely than an omnipotent entity from another dimension magically poofing everything into existence from nothing.
@@williamrice3052 William Rice: “necessary being then one looks for evidence of design” Do you never logically think about and analysed what you are saying? According to Genesis, Christians, and the Bible the UNIVERSE is earth surrounded by a dome with little lights. The moon, an object to provide light by night. According to the chronology in the Bible earth and the UNIVERSE is about 6 500 years old.
If God is immaterial who exactly is seated in the Throne of Heaven in Daniel 7:13-14, Acts 7:55 and Revelation 5:1 and 7. An immaterial God would of necessity be an impersonal God. That line of thinking makes God impersonal and impossible to have a relationship with. That's not the God of the Bible.
@@theairsoftcorps I can tell you really looked at the quoted scripture. Guess what? After you die you will be a spirit as well. Again because you either thought you were to smart to read at the quotes or to lazy to do so who is seated on the Throne of Heaven in the above quoted scripture? Did the Holy Spirit cause all those men to lie about what they witnessed? Please bless me with all your amazing knowledge that I'm sure you think is above everyone else's.
@@theairsoftcorps also since you must be a spirit to worship God do you turn into some ethereal being when you worship God? It might do you some good to understand the spiritual context of most scripture instead of thinking every word is meant literally.
God did it! And, no, I'm not being sarcastic. It's obvious to everyone according to Romans 1. Everybody knows! Arguments aren't needed when the human intuition knows. Arguments may be logical and valid, but they're not needed. Took me a long time and much gradual wisdom to realize this. Just preach God's Word and let it convict people what they intuitively know and what they're suppressing in unrighteousness. It's time for Christians to put arguments as secondary and lean on God's Word that convicts the heart of what they already know.
Nothing "created" anything... all is a thought in the the imagination of the Mind of God. Reality has been PROVEN to be nonlocal, so matter has no stand alone existence. Period. Try reading something OUTSIDE of the Christian echo chamber and discover that reality is SO MUCH MORE BEAUTIFUL! I'm not an atheist, I'm a nondualist. All is One. All is God. We are all dissociated perspectives of that One Consciousness. So... of course things add up in the universe to appear like fine tuning, same as a dream in your mind at night seems reasonable till you wake up. ⏰️
Both give piss poor arguments. I’ve listened to dozens of hours of their teaching and debates. In fact, Craig even admits that even if his arguments were disproved to his intellectual satisfaction, he would still believe in Christ as savior. These two make a lot of money off of Christians. Gullibility is a wonderful and an enriching thing.
