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Who Got the 10's? 1978 Topps Eddie Murray Edition

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List of 1978 Topps Eddie Murray PSA 10, Certification Numbers:
04034876
04034877
04034878
11074526
11962810
81525458
90543442
90544476
24705608
24976120
26226254
26813022
27623927
31860509
42690522
PSA Auction Prices Realized for '78 Murray, PSA 10:
www.psacard.co...
Previous Related Videos:
Rickey Henderson, PSA Grading the Card or the Player:
• Does PSA Grade the Car...
PSA's Grading Practices Examined: • Illusion of Objectivit...
PSA Certification Number Verification Page:
www.psacard.co...
Auction Listings of Prior Murray 10 Sales:
2004 Lelands: lelands.com/bi...
2006 Memory Lane: memorylaneinc....
2012 SCP: catalog.scpauc...
All PWCC Auctions: www.pwccmarket...
2017 Lelands: lelands.com/bi...
2017 Memory Lane: memorylaneinc....
2018 SCP: catalog.scpauc...
Feb. 2020 Heritage: sports.ha.com/...
2018 Sports Collector Digest Article Reporting PWCC Murray Auction: sportscollecto...
Allegations against WCSports1, Consignmints & Kane04:
forums.collect...
forums.collect...
forums.collect...
www.sportscardr...
www.blowoutfor...
Kevin Irlbeck, Homelandsportscard: readingroom.la...
PWCC Eddie Murray Video: • 1978 Topps Eddie Murra...
Contact Me: vintagecardcurator@gmail.com
Instagram: vintage_card_curator

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4 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 249

@ChuckNorthSideGuy 4 года назад

Once again, great analysis of real service to our community. Incidentally, and as I am about to post on my channel tonight, I spoke with the FBI Special Agent investigating PWCC etc. today. I mentioned your channel as an outstanding source of information.....and he already knew it! Keep up the great work. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. And you, sir, are casting a bright light!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Wow. Thanks Chuck...It's helpful to know that the information is getting to the right places where it can be considered and investigated properly. I guess I better keep going!

@aaron.from.winchester6744 4 года назад

Vintage Card Curator Keith, have you ever been contacted by the authorities yet?

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

No, they haven't.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Chuck, can you contact me by email: vintagecardcurator@gmail.com? Something important has come up.

@jays0909 3 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator did chuck contact you ? And can you share it with the rest of us collectors ?

@PennySleeveSteve 2 месяца назад

Phenomenal work! Great video!

@RatedRookie 4 года назад

“Not every short card is trimmed, but every trimmed card is short.” Brilliant research yet again!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thank you! I hope that is useful for collectors.

@gemint67 2 года назад

Be careful. That's not necessarily true. Some cards were factory cut oversized which offers the opportunity for scammers to trim the card while still keeping it within normal dimensions.

@RatedRookie 2 года назад

@@gemint67 that’s a good point!

@toddrichardson8595 4 года назад

Keith, your research is well beyond what can be considered incredible. Every video you do is a masterpiece!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks for your continued support Todd. I'm glad it has value for the community.

@toddrichardson8595 4 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator Anytime!

@NicoSportscards Год назад

This is tremedous work and extraordinarily unique. You’re quicly going to become one of the youtube greats in our hobby.

@patrickellsworth5427 2 года назад

Great great breakdown. Thanks so much!

@vintagecardcurator 2 года назад

Appreciate it...thanks for watching!

@IllPropaganda 4 года назад

Your research is impeccable! Props and thanks given!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks man...I appreciate that!

@9Hammers 2 года назад

Dude! You're the best. So detailed and fascinating! I love knowing that you are out there, doing this. I collect sets, I do the base Topps set, with updates, from 1967 to today. I've never bought a graded card. Or submitted...I'm a Topps base set collector...RUFF! These cards are bunk my man!

@vintagecardcurator 2 года назад

Thanks Matt. My big thing is set collecting too. I have 1968-1981 complete and am constantly working on upgrading individual cards. But I also like to play with graded cards and the fairness and objectivity of the grading process is very important to me.

@steviek6484 3 года назад

Wow so much information I would not have known very helpful thank you!!

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

Thanks...I appreciate you watching!

@shawncallahan5685 Год назад

Amazing work.

@vintagecardcurator Год назад

Thanks Shawn!

@gregporter8417 3 года назад

Very well done! Another great piece. I have always wondered about the Murray card and now you have shone some light on the topic. To me, its the way those 10's got made, no back story, no clear ownership path.

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

Thanks Greg...that struck me really hard as I have read a lot about different "finds" in Hobby publications, so it's odd that there are no stories behind these cards. If I submitted one and got back a 10 I wouldn't be able to keep it to myself. There would probably be a newspaper article in my local paper. This relatively inconsequential fact tipped the scales for me. The intangible or gut feeling you get that goes beyond all the data I examine.

@mikeorz111 4 года назад

Unbelievable work!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks Mike!

@drewhunkins7192 4 года назад

Excited to watch this VCC. As always, keep up the great work.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Drew Hunkins Thanks, I think you’ll like this one. I was surprised at what I did (and didn’t) find.

@curtwarner4789 4 года назад

With their very first graded card, the Gretzky/McNall Wagner, PSA demonstrated clearly and emphatically, they will grade known trimmed cards when it serves their interests.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Absolutely. It's telling that they have never decertified that card, even with no dispute whatsoever that it was trimmed.

@bayareaguy7438 4 года назад

Excellent work Keith, love your videos, great honor to know you.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thank you Eric...the honor is all mine.

@davearchbell9921 3 года назад

Wow awesome research. I'm an off and on collector. Just getting backing into and even before you vlog I'm suspicious of this whole grading system. I subscribed and will watch your videos.

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

Thanks for the kind words Dave. The card hobby is still a buyer beware environment. There's little/no regulation and the institutional players have a lot of unchecked power. Collectors, especially those coming back into the Hobby, should be cautious.

@davearchbell9921 3 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator Agreed. I live in Canada and focus on hockey. Many cards are graded by KSA. The word is they're easy graders. It's a starting point for the buyer to make his own judgement.

@craiggunter9630 Год назад

If you have an opinion that cannot be backed up with data...that is ALL you have. You my friend do NOT have an opinion! Well done!!!

@HitMan-tc6im 4 года назад

Like I always say Keith great episode, you put in hard work and we are better informed because of it.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks John. I hope this video is useful for the community.

@itcummifaegg 4 года назад

Your hard work, research & presentation are gifts to the card collecting community. This is all so fishy, so much corruption going on. Thank you for shining a light on this!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks man. I consider you the Ric Flair of the RU-vid community...keep up the great work!

@itcummifaegg 4 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator WOW! Thanks for the high praise! HEY EVERYONE, YOU SEE WHAT VCC SAID ABOUT ME?!?!!!!

@bodietyler519 4 года назад

PSA is so corrupt. They take care of the people that take care of them and the heck with the common collector.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

That's what it seems like...that's where the evidence is pointing. I mean PWCC seems to have gotten the last five 10's that PSA awarded. How is that possible?

@bodietyler519 4 года назад

What I dont understand is WHY do collectors continue to support them? I cant figure it out.

@deweyoxburger2963 4 года назад

@@bodietyler519 they are legal morons, making money with them or corrupt themselves. No other reasons possible besides having NO moral compass in life. Complete losers that can't or won't stop feeding a cartel.

@77chrysler 4 года назад

@@bodietyler519 me neither, its sickening! You would think that the ppl spending thousands on a PWCC card wouldnt be so oblivious to them!?

@michaeld6147 4 года назад

That's why I submit mine to a guy that does group bulk submissions every month. I got some low pop 10's and 1 card where I have the only 10.

@luisruizalvarez6860 3 года назад

Nice job.

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

Thank you! Cheers!

@topchopsc1 4 года назад

Great work as usual Keith! You really dig hard in your research. I look forward to the next video! Hopefully the FBI will uncover some of the original submission data in order to paint a clearer picture of what’s going on.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thank you! You hit on a key...we need to know exactly who submitted these cards. The submission returns are beyond belief and most of the cards appear to be trimmed. I really feel bad for any collector who submitted a mint Murray and got back a 9. I think collectors are owed an explanation.

@20byrd 4 года назад

Great video, keep up the good work! This fraud needs to be exposed.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks...this video was a lot of work, but I'm going to keep after it.

@garyyoung7323 Год назад

World is full of crooks..great video

@sportcardcollector9599 4 года назад

Keep up the great work Buddy I've been binge-watching your video's 👍👍👍

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Appreciate that so much!

@nateatchison161 3 года назад

I searched for a nice Murray rookie when I was fairly young in the early 90s, every one is off center. Every single one is off, so I realized ok try and find the one least off center but still has sharp corners, clear pic etc, Its a very nice clean card, I still have it almost 30 yrs later.... I also had the Ozzie smith rookie too, same issue. Both attended high school together in LA. Conspiracy? Lol. I sent my 86 Fleer Jordan R to PSA in 1999 and only got an 8. A few of us thought it was low. Sold it on ebay for $1000. Not bad as I kept it and many others laying around in my night stand drawer when I was 12...

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

I was looking over my old cards too and had the same experiences with my Murray and Ozzie cards. I sent my Ozzie's off to PSA and they got mid-grades...good lesson for me. That's a great Jordan rookie story. You can say you owned one...a lot of us will never be able to say that.

@nateatchison161 3 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator thank you. As a kid I bought tons of those 86-87 fleer cards at 40 cents a pack. I didnt have a clue what I was getting into money wise. All my lawn mowing money etc went to cards. Even the 87-88, 88-89. In high school I needed date money. And I started selling. I had multiple doubles of all those rookie cards. I made good money. Is there not many Jordan RC around. Mine was really nice. Thought it should've been a nine. I also wanted to sell before it stalled and I lost money.

@nateatchison161 3 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator I turn 46 in a few weeks. I still have cards and still love them, it's just different now than when I was 12. Your Eddie Murray piece was great. I'll continue watching 🤘

@stevemcafee1482 4 года назад

Your research is astounding and I applaud your work. Please keep these videos coming. I check daily to see if you add new material. Well done.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks Steve...that keeps me going. I am hoping to have the next one out within a week. Then it will be a few weeks before I can put the Rickey Henderson one together. That card has the highest pop at 24. It's a lot of work to track those cards down.

@johntore6108 3 года назад

Subbed.

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

Wow, thanks a lot! Appreciate that!

@MyerheadsCards 4 года назад

Tremendous video... more impeccable research. Can't believe I missed this vid last week! Love your work, my friend! Keep it up!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks for checking it out Michael! I appreciate the continued support and viewership!

@SportsCardGamble 4 года назад

Mostly Questionable! Love the content! Thanks for the hard work! 🙏

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks for the comment! The work was worth it...I'm glad to see collectors thinking about this issue.

@billt488 4 года назад

Once again, great work!!!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks Bill!

@silverfoocardboard8274 4 года назад

This is RU-vid video gold and very important to those of us that just want to trust graded cards are legitimate in every way. Outstanding work, please keep em coming.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks...I think you will like the next ones I have planned too!

@ut_sportsfan 4 года назад

There is supposed to be slight gaps between the card and edge of slab, otherwise the edges would get crushed when being slabbed, just hold up a raw card to it to see if it measures up

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

The gaps is such an important issue for understanding what is happening. I believe there are some cards that will have gaps. I own some that I know were not trimmed. But I don't believe there were that many produced by Topps compared to what we are seeing slabbed by PSA today. The card doctors understood that PSA allows a tolerance and they cut cards right down to that tolerance. So now it seems like every single high grade vintage card you see is loose in the slab. In reality, I believe that number should be much, much lower. I'm basing this on my own vintage cards that I've had graded and looking at lower grade versions of the same cards (as stated by watchtheirhands). In the case of the Murray cards we're seeing cards that have two edges with noticeable gaps. We see many/most of the cards are clearly OC in the back. We see edges that are not straight. It's a tough for collectors to accept that these cards deserve to be 10's. It's insulting to those of us who have submitted mint cards to PSA and gotten lesser grades.

@cscottriffle 4 года назад

Incredible. It’s clear that collectors need to prepare for the end of PSA. It’s becoming harder and harder to believe company executives will not be charged with fraud related crimes. It’s important to know our hobby will survive this, but a hard time is coming. Thanks for your leadership on this subject and service to the hobby.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks John. The more I dig, the more I'm believing the allegations made in the class action lawsuit filed against PSA. Ultimately if the submission records of these 18 cards could be released we would have a definitive answer. But there's definitely smoke.

@8moves 4 года назад

Psa has lost my business

@sw1217 3 года назад

Fair enough. Are you using another grading company?

@tbm9160 4 года назад

Outstanding job as always Keith. Thank you for sharing.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks for the comment and sub. I so appreciate it!

@deweyoxburger2963 4 года назад

Thanks again for putting together another great informative video!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks a lot. I appreciate you continued support, comments and subscription.

@mozzie22 4 года назад

If you aren't working for the FBI at this point you should be. GREAT work!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks man. I've done court investigation work in the past so I was happy to use these skills. I appreciate the comment.

@daniellarsen889 4 года назад

I just got my raw Murray Rc in the mail. It is an easy psa 7 for a whopping $10. Slightly off centered and one very small corner ding. I can live with these 2 minimal flaws for a $9,990 discount from a psa 10. The biggest flaw is the grading system itself.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

It's a special card for sure. But it seems to look worse when it's not a true 10.

@jamesbuck6623 Год назад

Myself an son talked about this very thing an the fact of what your saying is totally true thanks for bringing this to the lite maybe fraud ? You need to prove it ???? Maybe the police ??

@bigjax731 2 года назад

Cool

@LambeauLeeeper 4 года назад

Sad. It used to be a great hobby. Now big money scammers are like politician's in our home.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

It still can be a great Hobby. What bothers me so much is the trust that we all placed in these institutional players. They were supposed to keep us safe, not legitimize the fraud.

@bobbydice8934 2 года назад

Where there is smoke there is fire and there is sooo much smoke billowing out I would tell the fire department this is a five alarm fire.

@vintagecardcurator 2 года назад

Yes, it's very hard to defend or explain.

@justinkline1294 3 года назад

Forgot to mention that the trim job at 5:44 is rather obvious. Should never have slipped past a "professional" grader. I bought a raw trimmed '64 Pete Rose and submitted it to SGC who gave it the dreaded A. I quickly spotted it myself when had the holder edge to compare. So I thought, OK, I'll only buy graded cards by the Big 3 -- problem solved. So yours was an illuminating itIlluminating video. I might just go all SGC all of the time.

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

Thanks Justin. Trimming is a huge problem in the industry. I'm not convinced that PSA has its detection under control. So many cards in PSA slabs are shakers. I don't have any experience with SGC.

@Wizpullz 4 года назад

You are doing god's work sir. Keep up the great work, your service is invaluable to all of us.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thank you Greg. That means a lot. I hope it's making a difference in how people look at this issue.

@ut_sportsfan 4 года назад

I did get a psa 10 Bowman Frank Thomas rookie in the mail yesterday from a psa authorized dealer that had a very noticeable water stain on the top border, its obvious their authorized dealers are getting automatic 10s, just really sucks cause Im stuck with the card now due to no returns

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

If you got it from eBay you could return it. You could also contact the dealer and see what they say about it.

@ut_sportsfan 4 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator its 4 Sharp Corners and they're strict on their no refund policy on graded cards

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

I'm sorry, that really sucks. I'm not sure what you could do.

@professionalinsultant3206 3 года назад

The 3 tens in a row can be explained. There could be a die hard collector buying up the highest quality examples over several years and decided to send them in all at once. Since you said it was the early days of psa. Services like card grading was still new at the time.

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

When I do data analysis like this the first thing I try to prove is the most logical answer, which would be your's...that it's a random and true occurrence. What I have discovered since this research puts that assumption in strong doubt. We know now that there are a lot of examples of collectors getting dozens and even hundreds of 10's in a row for vintage. That's certainly not a random occurrence given what we know about the probability of getting a 10 for vintage, especially key vintage HOF rookie cards. I want to believe that PSA is fair, objective and random in their grading, but the data just don't support that.

@professionalinsultant3206 3 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator Maybe it is a smart idea to buy non graded cards for a fraction of the price for collecting (not reselling)?

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

I like graded cards for the consistency factor (in theory). It definitely makes it easier to track prices. But most of my cards are raw and in binder sets, so that's where most of my focus has been.

@jasonthemagnificent2.0 4 года назад

You're like the Batman of Baseball cards

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

ha, thanks man!

@willzsportscards 4 года назад

Great work. You have probably done this already, but if not, I think PSA's stubborn refusal to add 9.5s plays a role in this scam too. People are probably constantly flipping high grade 9s hoping for the jackpot 10, and of course, by artificially making the 10s rare, PSA reinforces this behavior. At the end of the day, the problem here is a monopoly/oligopoly and it's a perfect set up for fraud/corrupt business practices.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

I actually am not a fan of half point grades...I feel 10 is enough. But I agree that population control of 10's creates a financial benefit by encouraging the resubmission of cards.

@carlwagner4565 2 года назад

So I got a bunch of these 1978 cards in excelent condition with a fully signed ball how much am I looking at?

@vintagecardcurator 2 года назад

I don't know what the value on that is. I would look it up on eBay, under the sold listings.

@FDLrick 4 года назад

Keep up the great work. You seem to be the only you tube channel dealing with card collectors that has any credibility. Most of these You Tube Video know it alls are using the platform to promote the sale of what they're selling. They are a den of thieves disguised as experts in the speculation scam going on at the present. It's disgusting. THE TRUTH DETECTOR

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks Rick. I feel like I'm just asking some basic questions.

@aleagueoftheirown197 4 года назад

Fantastic investigative work! As Joe Orlando likes to say, “Never get cheated.” Perhaps he should tune in. Thank you for all that you do, Keith!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks for the comment! I appreciate all the support from fellow collectors.

@WeskerGriff 4 года назад

You are doing God's work. Keep shining the light sir!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thank you! I'm already working on the next one, ha ha

@catmayrant3336 4 года назад

RU-vid gold.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thank you! Appreciate you watching!

@pcbullets8726 4 года назад

I think that I have a better chance of winning the lottery than being able to submit a bunch of 78 Murray rookies and have them come back all 10's. I collected for years and knew people that bought a lot of this product. I use to sort cards for sets for this one collector and sorted a bunch of 1978 topps. Quality control was not the best at this time and mint examples were hard to find of this card, but not impossible. That being said, it's a shame that someone who is not a large scale collector has less of a chance to get a 10 because they are not best buds with PSA. And shame on the ones who trim or doctor cards, they are a blemish on this once fun hobby. I would rather have older cards at a lesser grade, because there is probably a lesser chance the card has been trimmed or doctored. Thank you once again for your research on this.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

I so appreciate comments like your's. I was collecting in the '70's, but had been out of it for so long. It's important for people like you, who have been doing it a long time, to share your experience in this area. Thanks for the comment!

@8jams73e 4 года назад

Keith, favor...can you tell who submitted the PSA 8 Rose rookie number 11037726? Currently running on eBay. Looks horribly trimmed. Was once sold on a heritage listing in August 2016 for over ten grand. Yikes!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Wow, that card is really horribly cut. The owner took a bath on the auction...looks like they lost $5,282 on the sale compared to the 2016 Heritage auction. I looked in front and behind that certification number and didn't see anything in terms of sales histories for those cards. With older certifications like this the sales data isn't very good so it makes it much more difficult to decipher who might have submited the card.

@aryrosenbaum3298 4 года назад

another well researched piece. It’s clear many of these cards were trimmed and it’s clear that PSA is involved in it or complicit in it with standards that allow trimmed cards. I don’t even get such great grades in my Topps Now cards with some of these submissions.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks Ary. I didn't immediately grasp the extent of the trimming until I started putting the video together and closely examining the cards. The trimming seems pretty obvious, even outrageous. And most of the cards are really OC in the back. Regardless of who submitted them, it's hard to argue that they are truly 10's.

@aryrosenbaum3298 4 года назад

Vintage Card Curator It’s amazing that in 1998 when I first heard of PSA, my concern was the massive bulk submitters would get better grades than people like you and me. Clearly, the message boards and your work prove it. Yet never would think they would allow this kind of trimming. It’s clear that the trimmers have the inside knowledge of what PSA seems acceptable, as your previous posts show.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

I suspect that there is a "friends of Joe" club out there. I am not an expert on the origins of PSA, but I understand the guys who started it were all experienced as dealers and had no special forensic knowledge in the field. I'm sure the relationships they had within the Hobby meant a lot and that their friends later became their customers.

@jackland454 4 года назад

Great research here thank you. Makes it quite obvious what has been going on here...

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

It does seem obvious, doesn't it? Thanks for the comment!

@Schoolboy681 4 года назад

Great research! And objective too. Thanks. Has me considering whether I will submit cards to PSA in the future.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks Sean. I think whether to submit to PSA depends a lot on the card. With modern you probably have a better chance.

@jysportscardguy8935 4 года назад

Those Murray's have wavy edges and tweaks on the corners. If I could tell that in a few seconds on a video, how could those cards really be gem 10's? Great video.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

I appreciate that comment...it's something I'm going to focus more on with the Ozzie Smith cards. You could make a case than few, if any, of those cards deserved to be 10's.

@aaron.from.winchester6744 4 года назад

Your the master. The Force is strong in you. Sadly though, after every SPECTACULAR video you post, my confidence in the hobby gets less and less.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks Aaron. My confidence is low too...I love the Hobby, but don't like who's in charge. I've had to pivot away from graded cards to keep my enjoyment up.

@luisruizalvarez6860 3 года назад

I have no doubt that in some near time, a PSA 10 T-206 Honus Wagner will surface... And the owner is going to be a big sports card dealer...

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

What surprises me is that we haven't seen PSA 10's of some vintage cards for which there are no 10's: 1976 George Brett, 1981 Fernando Valenzuela. Those would be 5 figure cards immediately.

@PickerJimS 4 года назад

Amazing work as usual Keith! Thank you! It’s becoming clear that the scammers in this hobby have inside connections with PSA. It really is quite unsettling!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks Jim. It is unsettling. It's hard for me to have much confidence in the grading process.

@bobmilin 4 года назад

Money rules business so there is a financial incentive for PSA's best customers to get high graded cards. That is why a top customer can get so many 10's back. Then the little guy actually sends a 10 in and gets it back a 9 because once again its in PSA's financial interest to keep the population of 10's low so their best customers can make maximum profit and then in turn they can submit more cards to PSA and fuel their business. PSA wants to make money the top sellers want to make money and the little guys are the ones that are giving up the money and losing the money. Buy a PSA 10 crack it open and the resubmit it and I could almost bet it will not come back a 10. Some should try this experiment buy 10 PSA 10's crack them open resubmit them as raw cards and see how many come back 10 again.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

I agree with you. It seems like PSA's interests are aligned with those top dealers/submitters. One thing not mentioned is protecting PSA Registry members. If you have a card selling for $25,000 and the pop is limited, what happens when more 10's are awarded? Most likely the value of those existing 10's will decrease. That's not good for those holding those cards (most likely Registry set members). There are so many reasons why it is in PSA's interests to restrict the pops and "award" them to people who bring value to their organization. Bad news for average collectors, as you say.

@toppsvintage316 4 года назад

Great saying "Not every short card is trimmed, but every trimmed card is short"! The more I watch your videos the less I care for PSA, PWCCA and many other auction hoses.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks. I was a big proponent of PSA and have invested thousands in their slabs. But I'm completely disillusioned now.

@wrigleyregular1926 4 года назад

WOW!! another great video. Keep up the good work.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks man! I'll keep trying...

@relayernj 4 года назад

Incredible research! Have you ever seen any questionable SGC gradings?

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Hi, thanks so much. I'm sorry, I don't have much familiarity with SGC. I'm considering sending them some cards, but I've been focused on PSA since that's what all my slabbed cards are.

@relayernj 4 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator I hear ya. Mine are all SGC. I love the holders. Great eye appeal, esp compared to PSA that seem chinzy.

@markmurphy3918 3 года назад

And to answer your question should Shaker cards get a ten, I sold a collector a ton of u opened packs and cards right from packs that were short back as evidence of trimming. To psa grading Depot, a card like a 1993 sp Jeter from a sealed box is not trimmed and my buyer wasn't trimming anything, it's just incompetent graders to say the least.

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

I've heard that the '93 SP Jeter is a card that PSA loves to send back to collectors as evidence of trimming.

@houseofbaseballcards4672 4 года назад

As someone who values psa’s opinion to feel comfortable with spending big money on vintage cards this makes you feel sick. Great presentation

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks for the comment and I feel the frustration and disgust at what's been put out there. The stuff I'm working on now might put all of this into better focus.

@brittsbit8847 4 года назад

Thumbs up!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks!

@cantoncardcollector1512 4 года назад

PSA so shady, and dirty!

@Justin_Time_Delivery 4 года назад

Would love to see you and smpratte have a debate. Check out his newest psa conspiracies video if you don't know him. Huge collector of multiple genres.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks for telling me about him...I just looked him up and watched a few minutes of his video. I don't call this conspiracy theory though. I approach this as a researcher, using public data that can be replicated to reach verifiable conclusions. I'm not that familiar with Pokemon cards, but you could use some of the same techniques I use with sports cards to test how PSA grades those. Do a 9:10 analysis on a set and see which cards are given a 10 least often by PSA. Vintage baseball has the advantage of having access to the print sheets for cards so we can test whether condition sensitivity is truly a factor that explains the grading results from PSA. I also believe in the third party grading system and don't want it to go away. But there needs to be objectivity, fairness and transparency to the process.

@markmurphy3918 3 года назад

This has to be an inside grader IMO plus a little bit of the others too. Great job on investigation so far, sad for the hobby, but look at the last 3-4 months, many vintage cards jumping up 300-500%. Manipulation is happening big time and who knows if lower graded cards are being fixed up, pressed to be much higher grades.

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

There's even more incentive now to game the system sadly.

@rivenwood3841 4 года назад

I Remember them, I was a member of universe

@willzsportscards 4 года назад

anyone out there have advice on how to spot shilling on ebay? to me it's obvious with certain sellers. their cards always command a 'premium'. only a sucker would buy from them. in the old days, ebay let you see bid %'s so you could see if someone was a regular customer (or possibly shill bidder).

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

eBay changed their rules a number of years ago to make it harder for users to uncover shill bidding on their own. There are a couple of things you can do to protect yourself. On any live (and archived) auction you can see the bidding history. You can click on the individual bidder and eBay will at least tell you: 1) the percentage of bids they've had with that individual seller and 2) the number of bid retractions they've had on that auction and the number they've had in the past 6 months. Anything over 1-2 retractions in 6 months is a red flag with me. (In 20+ years on eBay I might have had to retract a couple of bids ever.) But even this isn't enough to prove shill bidding. I can imagine scenarios where friends, relatives and fellow dealers could be shilling and their statistics wouldn't raise a red flag. Shill bidding was one of the serious allegations raised against PWCC leading up to the FBI investigation. I hope the FBI looks into this so collectors have some clarity. I suspect that the amount of shill bidding is truly mind blowing on cards.

@willzsportscards 4 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator thanks very helpful. what is your personal 'red zone' for bid activity with a particular seller? 30% 50%? Thanks again!

@underrated7725 3 года назад

How do you determine a PSA 10?

@vintagecardcurator 2 года назад

I look at PSA's own guidelines from their website and the cards that they have previously awarded 10's in the past.

@InternetMunchies 5 месяцев назад

This is "the smoking gun"..33 gem mint 10's vintage cards in a row ..wtf

@rogerdavis9962 11 месяцев назад

Corruption has crept in 100%

@the13thhourmusicexperience14 4 года назад

"Never get cheated" - Joe Orlando

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Yup. I bet he really believes that too.

@the13thhourmusicexperience14 4 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator He went from being one of the most respected people in the industry to one of the most despised and hated. Seeing him taken away in handcuffs would be a dream.

@aaron.from.winchester6744 4 года назад

More like: Joe “Never get cheated. Unless you are the one doing the cheating” Orlando.

@groundzero270 4 года назад

Either you convinced me of the scam or there is one 😜😜😜. Dang man I hate to feed the beast but I do love graded cards. I have switched to BGS orders lately, even though it might be the same🤷‍♂️. SGC is also my next step I think.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

It's a hard addiction to break...I get it.

@deweyoxburger2963 4 года назад

NOTHING should be your next step.

@aaron.from.winchester6744 4 года назад

If there is one thing Keith has proven, its that they ALL are scammers.

@Al-ImprovEd2022 4 года назад

Nice job Keith. Maybe the FBI will be calling you next! 😃

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Al, thank you for your help with this video...really appreciate it! According to Chuck (fellow RU-vidr), the FBI is aware of these videos. That gives me hope for reform in the Hobby. If they could get the submission records of these 18 cards it would go a long way towards that goal.

@Al-ImprovEd2022 4 года назад

Vintage Card Curator I saw that. Amazing. A lot of people would have just sent their resume in to work at the FBI. Your approach is much stronger. 😉If you need any more help let me know . I can’t wait to see what happens.

@bart81usaf 4 года назад

this is awesome. I'm sold just on the consecutive submission numbers. No way!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

I know, it's crazy. Hard to believe. I'd love to hear Joe Orlando's explanation for that one.

@golfmaniac007 4 года назад

that consecutive submission numbers is pure laziness by the scammers. absolutely no way to believe that.

@kevingeary2072 4 года назад

I wonder if some of these came from the Dynamite kids magazine baseball card inserts and were hand cut and then submitted to PSA. I bought one that was cut from the sheet on eBay and it was over cut, I was able to cut down to proper size and it looks very minty now. Just a thought.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

I haven't heard of the Dynamite inserts. I used to get that magazine back in the day. That's pretty cool. That could definitely be a possibility.

@kevingeary2072 4 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator they were in issue 57 with mad magazine cover. i believe there was 6 diff sheets with murray on right side middle area on one sheet. each sheet inserted has six cards on each sheet. check ebay they have pics of some.

@seanmcginty7406 4 года назад

One interesting (though time consuming) thing to collect data on would be the number of mid grade (like Maybe PSA 5 or 6) Murray cards have that extra bit of space between the edges and the card holder. It would let us know how much weight to put on the fact that a PSA 10 card is a "rattler" in evaluating whether it has been trimmed or not. You've found that 14 out of 15 PSA 10 Murrays (almost 95%) show that. So if we know that none of the PSA 5 Murrays are rattlers we could conclude with some confidence that all 14 of those PSA 10 Murrays are trimmed. Or if 95% of PSA 5 Murrays are rattlers, we could conclude that being a rattler probably isn't indicative of trimming since few would trim a card like that to get a PSA 5. And anything in between would be treated accordingly (50% means about half the Murray PSA 10s are trimmed, etc). I realize that the population of PSA 5 Murrays is probably a lot bigger and it would be way more time consuming to track that stuff down, but it would be pretty valuable data to have for comparison.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

That would be a daunting project, but it would be helpful to understanding how much weight to give these rattlers. Actually cards like PSA 5 are probably not huge in number...many people don't bother to send them in. I would encourage collectors to look at their own collection, cards they have had ownership of for decades and those lower grade cards and see for themselves how many of them are rattlers.

@amullins433 4 года назад

Wow. Sketchy stuff.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

It sure is...thanks.

@brinks554 4 года назад

Hey Keith! Any chance we will see some more videos of your personal collection?

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Hey thanks, at some point. This new research has really overwhelmed my time. I feel like it's starting to bear fruit so I want to continue with it. My collection is nothing special, nothing you haven't already seen on RU-vid anyway. I do like telling the stories and want to do more videos like that.

@robertvesely667 3 года назад

in my opinion their greed has destroyed the hobby for the collector don't get me wrong who wouldn't want a graded 10 card but there are too many popping up i thought something was fishy years ago when i was upgrading my 1970 topps baseball set which is a tough set to find nice cards in and to me 7 is a nice looking card but PSA 8-10's started popping up???

@shaneh2755 4 года назад

Fishy

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

yes, definitely!

@rivenwood3841 4 года назад

31 10s smells fishy tome.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Yeah, it's beyond any type of reasonable explanation for vintage cards.

@deweyoxburger2963 4 года назад

@@vintagecardcurator it's statistically IMPOSSIBLE is what it is. Many things going on over there that is statistically impossible.

@sonnydacuse7622 4 года назад

Dam..PSA is killing this hobby. PWCC is fueling to make this hobby corrupt. What is the FEDs doing about this??

@deweyoxburger2963 4 года назад

nothing..Let's not forget about the worst of them all E-BAY!

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

It's so frustrating.

@jtom1309 4 года назад

Shame on PSA! Thieves!

@johnevans992 4 года назад

Outstanding. Some of the backs are so off center, even if they were not trimmed, how could they have gotten a 10?

@bradgrimm6244 4 года назад

I was going to post the same comment but you beat me to it! I'm not an expert on PSA grading, and perhaps centering on the backs of the cards is not weighed as heavily as the fronts, but still how can a perfect 10 have centering that far off on the backs! Definitely something fishy going on there.

@johnevans992 4 года назад

@@bradgrimm6244 Agreed. The PSA standards say the back can be 75/25 but, at least one of those murrays looked closer to 90/10. These videos are awesome. That said, I'm beginning to feel like a fool for continuing to 'support' PSA.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks for that comment...I was wondering if people would notice. I couldn't figure out a way to point that out. The video was focused on tracing the origins, but I think in the absence of clear evidence, it's fair to look at these 10's and decide whether they are worthy of the Hobby's highest status.

@toddhale5387 3 года назад

thank you for confirming what i already knew...the hobby is booming right now but with sources like this people are getting smarter and realizing the system is rigged thats why im selling off my collection of graded cards.

@vintagecardcurator 3 года назад

I can't blame you Gaylen...the system is rigged and it's only going to get worse. With these record auction prices all roads to wealth lead through PSA and there is no oversight on them.

@carletonrutherford1799 Год назад

Collectors WORSHIP PSA. The suggestion is PSA and other graders are infallible. That is a joke. There is absolutely, 100% without a doubt some shifty business going on behind the scenes with those gradings. Not to mention, when those high end cards come up for auction, there is absolutely shill bidding going on. Buyer beware when bidding on, or buying those cards. Those grading companies are absolutely corrupt. Not all employees, but enough to throw them into question. Is the name of the person who graded the card from those companies on record anywhere, or is it anonymous grading?

@vintagecardcurator Год назад

Yes, PSA knows exactly who submitted these cards.

@carletonrutherford1799 Год назад

@@vintagecardcurator No no, I was wondering what the names of the PSA graders, who graded the cards were. If those names are available, then we would know if those individuals are show favouritism towards the people submitting them.

@anthonyblanchard4458 4 года назад

Yet people still send card after card to that sham of a company

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

I know...I just saw PSA adjusted their standard service time to something like 60 days. And people watching videos like this are dwarfed by collectors who are still happy to submit cards to PSA regardless.

@typhoon81 4 года назад

Thank You for your Great Videos. I really enjoy them. Well, My friend you know my answer. Rigged!!! I can't stand PSA or PWCC. This will be like the McDonald's Monopoly scam. Keep up the Good work my friend.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks my friend. This is starting to feel like peeling layers off an onion. The deeper you dig, the worse it smells. I think it goes beyond PWCC. Companies like PWCC will always exist in the Hobby. It's the job of PSA to protect us from scammers. I'm starting to believe that they are in bed with them.

@pamelaroliva8501 4 года назад

its sad that PSA is the hobby.

@tgunn277 4 года назад

If you look at Kane04 feedback on Ebay, it shows people accusing him of selling trimmed cards. He also sells a lot of Gem Graded cards.

@vintagecardcurator 4 года назад

Thanks for checking into that. I didn't go to that length. I saw he was outed on Blowout and that was good enough for me. I'm embarrassed to say I messaged him on eBay to ask him about these cards, before I researched who he was. Thankfully he never responded.