Who Is REALLY Topping DPS In Phase 3? | Wrath Classic | Trial of the Grand Crusader 

Here is a fun video idea for you: can you make a "retail beginners guide for classic players"? Like if we're not completely new to the game but have no idea about retail gameplay loop and meta

30 MM hunters disliked this video

You said totem of wrath stacks with demonic pact? from everything i've heard and seen this doesn't seem to be the case, unless it was changed?

Demo lock main here: your comment on ele shaman's totem of wrath stacking is only half right. It makes demonic pact bigger but doesn't technically stack in the expected way. Expect a ~30 spell power net gain if you have a demo lock and add a ele shaman as opposed to the 280 you'd expect from true stacking.

Pretty sure Totem of Wrath does not stack with Demonic Pact. How the interaction actually works is that the Demo lock can benefit from a Totem of Wrath upon the first application of Demonic Pact.

What do you mean hunters have found that trapweaving is strong and 434? It's been a thing since phase 1 😂

Stats are skewed because of 4pc/trinket prio too. Give it about a month more to stabilize

Unholy is dogshit in classic. In vanilla you'd be using double deaths choice with 258 t9 and snapshotting for so much damage.

never got why people hated the pvep in TOC raid... i loved it! it was free loot!

Can confirm, have Death's Choice[H] & 4set, dps increase is frankly bonkers especially on Anub, doing 2x the dps than a lot of other raiders. It's a shame that UH DK will drop off a lot in ICC as some of our BiS is already from this phase and Comet's Trail from Alg25, but in our dadgamer guild I'm the only UH DK so at least I'll stay useful (^_^)

I finally got a fucking weapon I've had the geared now I'm staying top 3 dps every fight with my ret pally

just saying…the players at the top end of the skill cap for spriest are doing more damage than most other casters

A lot of the UH Dks got their 4pc and some even DC prio'd very early, so their damage is quite insane right now. They will probably stay near the top for this phase, but the problem is that it doesn't really get much better than this for them. They'll keep using their 4 set from TOGC as well as their trinkets (comet's trail and death's verdict) in ICC. I still expect them to be at least A tier though.

Ret actually doing good in the TOGC fights. Hoping the scaling continues into ICC

Thank you for mentioning Hunter chores they do cost us some dam for sure

Trap weaving is definitely not a new discovery haha

What you're saying about hunter is strange, I was expecting you to say MM was starting to catch up thanks to Arm Pen being more available. Speaking with the main hunter in my guild we both agreed that we would probably look at MM later in the patch (just before ICC). Also you're 100% right that Explosive trap should not be better than Black arrow for single target (or, in my opinion anything less than packs of mobs)

Hunter actually wouldn't benefit much if they didn't have to soak on Twin Valks because the Valks don't proc their traps. If you've ever pugged with more than 3 hunters in a raid you'll notice the stack Hunters aren't doing much more damage than the soak Hunters. They do more damage than the soak hunters by virtue of being able to have 100% uptime and not having to move away from Light Vortex like other DPS specs but not being able to access about 30% of their damage ensures this is a very mid spec. Faction Champions is also a fight where they can't use their traps and Icehowl is extremely RNG if they can use their traps and Gormock is just the worst boss in the game because you have like a 1/5 chance of just not getting to do any damage if a Snobold jumps on your face and you just have to AFK for 20 seconds. Your best ability just doesn't work on almost 3/5 bosses in the instance. Surv is a top 5 spec on Jaraxxus, Faction Champs and Anub but the majority of this instance just has a passive 30% debuff for Hunters. The basic fact that Hunters are still a mid tier spec despite not being able to access 30% of their damage on half the raid speaks volumes for how good this spec actually is and being a top 5 spec on Faction Champs, a fight that also locks the majority of every classes AOE is showing just how good this spec actually is doing, it's just Beasts was designed to fuck over Hunters specifically and Twin Valks is just bugged

I love playing arms and since Ulduar I have the chance to be the supporter in my guilds 25 as both our rogues dont want to play combat. Now I have just reached the hardcap for AP and Have therfore discarded the runestone. I am really excited to see If it shows next ID.

enh sham B tier? i get alot of your rankings are based from warcraftlogs but enh shams PUMP this phase. i think its not higher because of how much min/maxing you have to do compared to other classes like assas rogue or UH dk who can just turn their brains off and press 3 buttons to really pump out some serious dps.

MM does not need help for the same reason frost mage, arms war, sub rogue, destro lock doesnt need help. These are the pvp specs of the class. They dont need to be bis for pve as well.

hunters are also the only ranged class that cant dps on beasts with a kobold on their back. (assuming you bring it into the melee stack to get cleaved). overall we are cucked this phase

Hunters are lower tier because of valks, otherwise sv hunter is top A tier in dps, mm wont be relevant until late p4 and even then its not a guarantee since hunter is mainly a theorycrafted spec atm due to lack of competent hunter main youtubers. Even in full p4 BIS MM is only marginally higher in dps lol. Most people still think of 2007 hunter rather than modern hunter meta

now after they fixed some specs with glyphs, how about a major glyph for the boomies that increases lunar eclipse procchance to 100% on a crit. im fucking sick and tired of seeing my solar eclipse get of cooldown before my lunar ecplise procs with 50% effective crit on wrath

I fucking went blood dps just to see how it was compared to frost. I think its pretty good ended up being like 7th overall in my raid. And an officer in my guild told me not to play cause some people were angry, how you gonna be angry at me when theres a bunch under me SMH.

Seems like a lot of noobs play retail.. how can you be bad at mm hunter. Playing wotlk on private for 10 years, and I'm toping recount always. And yes a lot of noobs on warmane too

"They're not goint to buff arms and mm because they have another spec" Le blizzard buffing ret palas when they have SSS tier tank and SSS tier heal spec

Hunters are so shit in this xpac lmao, we're struggling so hard. When our best spec is only middle of the pack, oof...

remember when ppl cryed that unholy is an unplayable dead spec? i shure do and i say the same thing now that i said then, be lucky your garry doesnt get clobal capped like it used to be in wrath

Blood if in the hands of a good player does more dps than arcane and demo and close to frost so being D tier is a farce. Should be B tier especially if close to if not full BIS gear

Boomkin scaling drops off because we've been soft haste-capped since P1 and now we're soft crit-capped in P3. We only scale strongly with spell power which feels bad. If blizzard dropped GCD to 0.75s like they "accidentally" had it at the start of TBC, boomkins could actually compete.

you mention aff lock at 14:00 but then show demo lock footage - not sure if this was intended but just want to point it out in case it is an error

wasnt survival hunter supposed to only be the best hunter spec in phase 1. Guess they were way off on that.

(surv) Hunters have to many jobs to do and traps dont work on twins, thats why they're down there but its still the most fun spec imo! But I hope icc will be better for traps ^^

Do not agree with where you placed Shadow priest, should be a bit higher

fury behind ret? even if were completely ignoring rets utility of mana regen, improved might, haste, replenish and aura, checking the last dps rankings (like you show in this video) ret is above fury in every category... overall damage, 95 percentile and all of it so uhhh yeaaa ret is STILL ahead of warriors :)

To my fellow rets, your bis is wrong unless you have 4 heroic teir pcs, which is not really realistic til perhaps late phase. 2pc and cruel intent heroic chest yeilds much fatter reselults IMHO (sims back this up). Also no one other than enhance shammy will want that chest

Fury all around best to play. Yes i am basis asf

"You could very reasonably argue MM is the PvP spec" My guy, this is already the argument for not buffing BM. lmfao.

As a hunter main, I'm very concerned going into ICC. MM was predicted to be an S tier dps in TOGC b4 wrath, and it's barely above meme specs. If Surv scaling doesn't keep up in ICC we will be a dps class without a competitive dps spec in the end game.

disagree on Hunter. good hunters will be mid to bottom A tier imo

Where did you read about Dancing Runeweapon fixes??? Searched in all Hotfix Blueposts but didnt find it

Hmm I haven't played WoW in over 5 years until WOTLKC launched and p1-p3 were my first raiding experiences ever, as well as first time playing enhancement shaman, and as someone who went from gray-blue parsing Naxx to being 99 on a bunch of fights in Ulduar/TOGC even as Alliance, as well as seeing myself constantly top 3 DPS-wise, I still don't get why Enhancement is so overlooked and isn't A tier? Sure there are fights where ranged classes or spellpower classes have huge advantage in DPS, but as a whole I was always very content with where Enh is and I love seeing myself up there in top 5 in most fights even in a high performing guild.

Glad i benched my hunter after tbc. Hated the aspect of viper change and how beastmaster turned into a leveling spec.

Phase 1 I got my ret and mm hunter to 80. I didn’t make it to phase 2. I’m a filthy casual who couldn’t stick it out.

This man is still underrepresenting blood dps. I get it’s not great but saying it’s only D tier is just wrong.

Main reason melee with cleave are going up is mainly due to the availability of valid cleavce dmg for logs in p3 rather than gear.

Haven't played since the announcement of beta dungeons, this is Wotlk anymore so im out.

"Ret pallys have had a roller coaster experience in WotLK" TRUE BROTHER, TRUE

Shadow priest goes to A tier single target in ICC, due to their 4 piece. So don't leave them out for the count yet.

I main a MM hunter, i think i do fair dps, but overall logs are crap. Idk why

What makes trap weaving on XT even worse is that the heart doesn't actually trigger the trap. xD Even though surv isn't the top dps anymore, you can still stay pretty competitive due to relatively low gear competition, especially during the progression phase.

Shadow priest are actually alot better on most meters than anyone has expected. On my server they are usually top 3-5.

Big WillE i love you

Hunter is also a little more behind because explosive trap doesn't work at all on twin valks. There is a way to do it, but it requires warlocks, tanks and healers to do extra to make a temporary hostile demon to trap off of.

ToW does NOT stack with demo pack.

Spoiler alert. Fire mages dominated ICC and it wasn't even close

why don't you link the actual tier list in the description :)?

I’m bummed I missed out on wrath classic, just didn’t have the time.

12:56 you want a Shadow in the raid? Why? Whats this big utility your talking about? Its all covered already by other specs in the raid. The unique utility it had in ulduar was on algalon but why do you want one in your raid? Also crazy that you talked so long about trapweaving but didnt mention that its impossible to even trap twins

Is it fun to play game just for sterile stats and numbers?

for hunters rn, if you can get 2 piece last tier and 2 piece this, your serpent keeps up 343 a lot more

haha 3:19 with the face animations was good. warlock poggers

Hey! I quit playing wotlk after naxx so my chars are around 4.2k gs i am planing to coming back but dont know whats the best way to gear myself up to trial ? what the min gs needed for it ? how can i go from 4.2 to 5k the fastest ?

My ret is embarrasing the raid.

Eagerly awaiting your "So You Want To Play Hardcore Shaman" guide!

Glad to see ferals doing better.

Dks ruined the game imo

BM getting a buff would make me dust off the hunter

Give us 1 more tier, boiz ! 1 more tier !! #FeralPlayer

Honestly think survival is being slept on

Where my arms warriors at

They should never have buffed Feral, and they should have buffed Marks.

Imo beat mastery found its home in Titan Rune dungeons. Fast attack speeds for mirror images and wraps while your pet does "some" dps is nice

14:00 Afflic, Unholy and Fire Mage; good choices

I find it funny that Blood DPS is doing something and it’s performing better than actual dps specs.

YOU CAN can you make a tank guide

Blood DPS D Tier? I dont think so.

Wrath isn't dead yet?

curious to see where the hybrid demo/destro spec is in this list. seems decent

none of this is surprising tbh. Both fwarr and mhunt need softcap (60%) armor pen for first damage spike, also mhunter is really unique because they can put 1 singular talent into a pet talent and increase their overall dps by 10-15%

For sure you'll need a shadowmourn to compete with fire or afli as a DK, but you get to use the most busted weapon in the game. A UH Dk with it will be so unreasonably strong it's not even funny, all of the fights in ICC are made in a way that UH DK thrive. On the other hand, the earliest possible you can get a Shafowmourn would be week 3 with all the questing prep done before even going into your first full HC clear. By that point you've beaten the game so who cares :P

They should have removed the dmg reduction on titan's grip for every phase before ICC, like original Wrath. For some reason they did good buffs to Ret and Feral but really screwed fury warriors for the first half of the expansion.

Fire mage is now ahead of affliction on WCL

Well it looks like fire, afli, fury will actually be the top 3 dps in ICC. Unholy got prioritized 4p 258 and DC as it's bis for them till end of the game, so they aren't getting that much stronger. But the sets for mage and lock are ridiculous. The lock set bonuses are literary 5% and 10% constant dmg, and mage is 12% constant haste and 18% dmg for 30 sec on 3 min CD. Warrior is creeping in even now, but with 100% armp and shadowmourne should be top 3 ;)

FERAL!

I wonder these things but in pvp

Depending on the fight, my Hunter is doing quite well. I use warcraft logs to get a general idea of how good my DPS is compared to my guild mates (I'm not going to on be par with the parsing guilds - that requires everyone to be a pumper). Currently I do the most damage on Northrend Beasts and have a lower parse percentage then our best Warlock who is just behind - suggesting Hunter is very favoured on that fight for some reason or another. Meanwhile I struggle to stay out of the bottom five on Twins due to being a soaker and being unable to drop traps (can't trigger on floating enemies). Warlock seems to be consistently very strong, though.

Lemme guess, unholy dk.

I wouldnt say that everything is right or argued correctly, but the major thing to keep in mind is that this tier list is made very early into the patch, therefore its very in favor for classes which get a high dps increase through small/fast upgrades. Best example is ret, they get a crazy dps increase due to their new book (600 Dps or something) which acquires basically no effort to get. Therefore they seem like starting to pump, compared to the other classes Dps gain in this small time window, but they actually arent. I dont see a world where ret is actually A tier DPS in TOC, but for now it could be low A.

i probably would have put feral in s tier. it's not quite as high as the other 3, but it's so much higher than the rest, that it's insulting to put it with them

WillE, I love your videos but..."having raided ToGC a bunch"!? You mean, all three weeks since it's release? How are you making an accurate raid tier list with: 1. A miniscule sample size; 2. Classes having MAYBE earned 3-4 new pieces of gear at this point? Like, how can this be accurate at all?

MM is as much of a meme as BM currently. Please let’s buff one of them atleast

Wooooo Frost Mage go.....

Gladiator Warrior??

Has munching been fixed for warriors yet? Or just mages

Being hunter at this point doesn't feel too good right now tbh. Gotta trapweave on all 3 specs to keep up. But it's either inconvenient or straight up impossible on some bosses. Mm and bm are just meme specs too.

You probably suck at the game if you need the crutch of playing a death knight. Nobody bowls with bumpers and thinks they're gonna win a pro tour, but for some reason Death Knights think they're actually good players. Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a thing.

Hi Will!

Gladiator warrior?