Who Really Won The Dance Of The Dragons? | House Of The Dragon & Game Of Thrones History & Lore 

Sadly, I imagine he'd be rolling in his nonexistent grave over the fates of his daughters, Baela and Rhaena. One died very young in childbirth of her second child and also had a girl missing an arm due to an attack of some kind of valiryo worm. The other married to a Hightower, and bore daughter after daughter until it killed her. Daemon's sons at least lasted a little longer, but the misery of one that led him to squander key moments in caring for the remaining dragons and the failure to raise the next generation of House Targaryen would displease him.

true

yeap indeed, he lived as he pleased and died on his own terms

Absolutely! It reminds me of the end VO of the old movie "Legends of the Fall" with Brad Pitt: "It was a good death". I was still a child when I watched this and it impressed me till today.

Daemon after all is GRRM's favorite Targaryen.

Aegon the II supported Rhaenyra and didn't want the throne. But his mother convinced him to take it because Rhaenyra would have killed him to stop the rebellion even if he didn't support it.

@@biggibbs4678 If Aegon, Halaena, and Aemond flew over to Dragonstone on their dragons to bend the knee to Rhaenyra, like their father commanded them, boom no war, no kinslaying

@@biggibbs4678 I don't think Rhaenyra would have but a certain Rouge Prince maybe..

​@@biggibbs4678 Idk, that could be just green propaganda. The witness that accounted that was a green supporter pretty much

@@biggibbs4678 Idont agreethat Rhaenyra would have killed him....itwas justAlicent with her paranoia

The greens won the battle not the war. Remember there was an army marching towards KL to remove him as he was not the rightful heir.. they were going to send him to the wall.

Bt daemon knows it and he is successful to install his son as a king instead of cup bearers,

Lol Rhaenyra last suviving son married Aegon last surviving daughter...so all targaryen after that also have the bloodline of Alicent Hightower.

@@nahtaniel8027 the hierarchy continued from Prince Viserys (King Viserys ii son of Rhaenyra) and Lara Rogare. Rhaenyras son Aegon marriage to Aegons daughter Princess Jaehaera (Alicents grand daughter) was a brocken marriage and never had children

I think that by eliminating the threat of the Others, the world of Westeros doesn't need the Targeryens' protection anymore, therefore, the lineage will end.

@@nahtaniel8027 Bitch what????she died an horrible dead and he married a velaryon lol then his sons where all crazy bitchess and viserys son got the throne

@@nahtaniel8027 Alicent's granddaughter died before she could give Aegon III any children, so Alicent's bloodline was extinguished.

hightowers & valaryons it's hard to say , both houses ended up declining, both houses got daughters into the position of royal consort , 1 before the dance & 1 after the dance , at the conclusion of the dance it really depends whether you put it with the death of rheanera or the end of the fighting , whether aegon II closely advised by hightowers or aegon III closely advised by valaryons have which house come out better placed at that point

They didn’t put a black on the throne, lol. Aegon II had named Aegon III as his heir. Aegon II died, Aegon III became king. Even patriarchy was followed, since Aegon III was named the king’s heir since he was Daemon’s firstborn son. It’s a happy coincidence, for the Blacks, that Aegon III had Rhaenyra as his mother. Had Daemon’s son with Laena survived, he would have become the king as DEAMON’s firstborn son.

@@leykimayri not really Aegon was forced to name Aegon III the heir

@@leykimayri Aegon 2 was marrying borros daughter to produce new heir and remove aegon 3 untill Lord tully slayed borros and they all would have slayed Aegon 2 as well, so his supporters realised they were doomed and poisoned him. Even by your interpretation Daemon won.

@@γιουργια He only accepted once it was promised he'd marry his daughter, so I would say a compromise was made, not that he was forced, lol

@@amritanand8137 Daemon won? He felt off a dragon from hundreds of feet up in the air down on the water and became fish food himself, lol, so where is the winning, again?

the greens won. aegon ii showed mercy to rhaenyra children while the blacks killed his first son and were the reason his second died only thanks to him the targaryens survived

I've never heard the idea Aegon iii inherited via Daemon before, everyone just assumes it was Rhaenyra, but via Daemon does make sense

nope. Rhaenyra was the heir and Aegon iii is her line. in the books, the loyalty is pretty decided, it depends on the region. also, aegon is the one who's known as Aegon, the usurper

@@Nihilanth thats not true. In history Aegon "The Elder" II is considered the rightful king, while rhaenyra is known as the pretender. Although youre right that her son becomes the next king, he never bothered to proclaim rhaenyra the rightful queen

@@defaulter264 only because aegon ii demanded. but you're forgetting that if you were to ask the north, dorne, riverlands and etc, they would say that Rhaenyra was the heir and that Aegon was the usurper. aegon ii is known as the elder and the usurper. it wouldn't make sense for aegon III to proclaim his mother as the true queen cause he married the daughter of aegon ii, to make peace.

@@Nihilanth @Nihilanth nothing that you said is true. First of all Aegon III never made a deal with Aegon II, he married the daughter of Aegon II, but she commited suicide or was assassinated before the marriage was consumated. Second, Aegon II is the rightfull king everywhere in the seven kingdoms, even the north and the places that fought for Rhaenyra recognize Aegon II as the king and Rhaenyra as the pretender, obviously they didn't do it at first, but after one generation they did and even more after decades and centuries went by. Aegon III never bothered changing the decrees of Aegon II and his decrees are valid for the seven kingdoms, including the one about Rhaenyra not being a queen. Aegon II wouldn't even be known as Aegon II if he was not the recognized king, he would be prince Aegon and Aegon III would be counted as Aegon II.

such a match could have been forced , actually defying the king could have been considered treason and treated that way

@@Marcusjnmc With respect to Viserys the first, the Hound had the right of it: *Fuck the King.*

I see it as the other nobles being the ones who won ultimately. The Targs lose their dragons, and the playing field becomes level. The overthrowing of the Targaryens became an inescapable reality from that point on

@@fartpoop9722 But it shows the strength of the Targ bloodline, for the overthrowing to take a whole century. Even without their Dragons, they still had the respect, power and fear that enabled them to be the Royal House. it took a literal Madman ruling for a few years before the other Houses and the Common folk started to rebel.

The Citadel won.

Not just that but Targaryens had they gotten along could have expanded the family even further and created a much greater empire

@@JoaoCosta-ly1sw yes this is the truth. Citadel really wanted dragons and magic dead.

Oh definitely, anyone who stayed out did well out of it. I would also argue the Lannisters gain a bit given the slow decline of House Velaryon helped them rise up a bit

@@WorldOfWesteros Yeah, though they lost a lot of men and the lives of Their Lords + The Red Kraken destroyed them for some time tbh.

Margaery being like alicent, Alas cersei was a tad too extremist in her action which actually made things work for her at times

But It also took blackfyre rebellions and weakening of house peake to but tyrells on the top.

@@amritanand8137 house Peak was not strong by the time of the dance any more. It was only a short uprising of Unwin as regent that made them appear stronger than they were but in F&B it is described that they were in decline since the conquest.

yes, in the end Blacks won

The blacks won but at a very high price.

@@kingkashi5151 the dragons it's bigger lost ever happened to house targaryen

The two factions were married after the war

Dragons will be lost someday anyway. better end by their own than being overthrown by some other unrest houses.

It's also ironic that both sides became tyrants and huge hypocrites - Rhaenyra enforced male inheritance to keep her allies happy and despite having 3 'Strong' sons, treated Addam horribly because he was a 'bastard'. Alicent orginally wanted to protect her children and uphold morality yet lost them all and became increasingly immoral.

Also there's an irony in that Daemon who orginally fought for his brother's throne claims over Rhenys battles Aemond who is fighting for his brother's throne claimes over Rhaenyra.

The treatment of Addam Velaryon and Nettles was the perfect example of rank hypocrisy from Rhaenyra. You want the heads of the "bastards" on a spike but pass off your own as legitimate and even try to make them heirs. Like people around are blind. And if not, you expect them to shut up (tongues ripped) because - "my daddy dearest". I start off as an initial black supporter but become strictly neutral in the middle by the time she rules KL. Heck I even rooted for Daeron and the Hightowers to take KL and be done with it at one point.

@@parklinkin6624 That was what got me as well. She wasn't fighting for changing unfair traditions - she was fighting to be the sole exception to said traditions (egged on by Daemon who basically taught her she could do whatever cause dragon). Addam was honestly one of the decent ones who got screwed over.

Had the old bag just made daemon the king, all of this could have been avoided.

the strongs were all killed out by the war so i dont think so

I actually like this perspective. (Sans the strongs)

Strong is not a major house so...

true, just look of how the high lords or even the minors challenged the crown in the future years, the dragons were a dissuation weapon, without them, the targs relied on armys of men who they expect to be loyal for the crown, just like any other lord

@@moonondp4173 part and parcel of living in a big castle (Harrenhal).

100%

It's Daemon's descendants who are on the throne not Rhaenyra's. Her son didn't inherit the Throne because he was Rhaenyra's son he inherited it through the succession through Daemon. Don't forget because of the Dance Female Heirs and Heirs through the Female line would always inherit last. In that way while the Black "won" the throne but the greens won the war of ideologies. In the end it was a draw as both sides where linked in matrimony in the end.

@@muffinhydra aegon the younger was the son of rhaenyra and daemon

@@Lukew204evans daemon is the crucial part here. Even with her son being on the throne Rhaenyra never was acknowledged as a queen, she is always princess Rhaenyra. Aegon is only king because his father was daemon not because his mother was rhaenyra.

The ultimate example of a Pyrrhic victory. At the same time Alicent, in the sense of this world being based on 13th-14th century England, was in the right.

By legacy the Greens won, by bloodline the Blacks won. Rhaenyra's legacy is that of a pretender, her son inherited, true, but not from her, he inherited from his uncle and then his father. Aegon is the one counted as Aegon II and Rhaenyra is Princess Rhaenyra, the one that wanted to be queen.

Legacy be dammned. A whole family was destroyed and no one truly won.

@@diegonatan6301 And the counterpoint would be that Aegon II was a usurper, Rheanyra was named heir by the King, every vassal bent the knee to her, yet Alicent installed her son as King

Pretty sure Hightower blood continue to run throughout the generations. I think descendant from both sides ended up together.

You literally contradict yourself. If we looks at legacy and the way people remember it, the Greens won. Rhaenyra is remembered a pretender, Aegon is remembered as Aegon II and even Aegon III got the throne as the heir of Aegon II. You are right about legacy being important, not blood, as hence the Greens won

It was the line of Vicerys 2 not Aegon 3 ,. The targaryens you see in got are descendants of Vicerys 2,

long term doesn't exist. Targayrens were eventually wiped out. So Greens won.

Then Aegon II DIED and Rhanyra's son, who saw her fed to the Sunfyre, became King. Everyone lost quite a bit, but I'm calling this for Team Rhaenyra!

@@carastone3473 bruh. read what I wrote.

I think long term the Greens won too because no woman sat the throne.

Yes! Your absolutely correct

But house Targaryen went extinct and house veleryon became a minor house in GOT while house hightower still almost same as before.

​@@AyushGupta-yl4scThe closest thing that we had of House Hightower on GOT was Margaery and Lorax's mother who were born from House Hightower

"from my blood, come the Prince that was promised"

@@Jillofalltradesfu - Damn right 😏🖤🐉🔥

Not the same case The green case won no woman was ever allowed to rule after the dance and the priority was always to the male,

@@miracleyang3048: Yes, sexism was alive and well in both fictional and non-fictional worlds. In England, males were granted the crown first even if they were the second born after a sister. That did not change until a little while ago with the current Royal family, the Windsors. Although no female Targaryen ruled after The Dance, the future rulers were not the Greens; they were the descendants of the Blacks and like any proud family, they would honour the memory of those they were related to not those who wanted to eradicate their ancestors.

@@roxymcdonald6518 But they didn't They honoured the memory of Aegon II and he is the king in every history they have, they even considered his number when naming themselves Aegon III was called the third for a reason

She's not paranoid though. She tells him that they would put them against each other and that's exactly what happened.

Actually the whole thing about female not sitting the iron throne is not a law nor a rule,it’s a precedent,in the books it’s probably more complicated,we don’t even know if Rhaegar Married Lyanna if not then Jon is not a legitimate Targ and we don’t know if fAegon is who he says he is and no way to prove it(might be a blackfyre),so that would make Dany the legitimate heir despite being a woman.

Also Jon actually did have a higher claim to the throne though even if he had been a woman as well. Dany was the youngest child of the mad king, while Jon was the first born child of her oldest brother. Jon by line of succession had the higher claim.

She drew short term.It was her bloodline that continued to rule westeros;not the usurper’s.The dance cementing male primogeniture in westeros was moreso because the realm was still low key sexist about a woman sitting on the throne

@@tellajones5261 Thirdborn. Rhaenys and Aegon might have died, but they still existed.

this is the best and honest answer.

I've got a question though. What does Viserys mean by "The idea that we control dragon is all am illusion"?

@@ebiakuthompson6756 There family were originally sheep herders. They only became dragon riders after a blood magic ritual.

Very well put indeed.

It doesnt matter how long Aegon 2 ruled. The dance of dragons between greens and blacks was about the civil war with Rhaenyra pretending to be queen of Westeros. And that war ended when the first male parent in line of AEGON 2 (his nephew) married the daughter of AEGON2 again. AT BEST for the blacks, it would be a draw. AT BEST for the greens, they won the dance by killing the pretender Rhaenyra. What happened 1-26-100 years later is not Dance of dragons anymore...

I think your comment summarises the whole issue perfectly.

No one defeated anyone.

Aegon defeated Rhae not the blacks, riverlords killed last bit of green army and would have killed aegon but his supporters realised his doom and killed him.

The greens didn't beat the blacks though, Cregan stark smashing borros baratheon's army was the final actual battle of the war and he was going to use his 8-12k strong army (yeah there was a huge differentiation historically speaking somehow) to continue it by ruining the 3 main houses aligned with the greens (lannisters, baratheons and hightowers). He only didn't because all 3 surrendered and he enacted judgement upon those he held responsible for aegon II's poisoning. Everyone even tried to calm him down from doing it because with aegon dead, and the blacks firmly in controll of kings landing, they had essentially ended the war

Nobody won the war. That’s the point. And if you really want to put an achievement to it, who sits the iron throne after all of this, Rhaenyras son. BOOM!

Imagine defending a pedophile who groomed his wife, and had a 6 year old murdered, murders another man to take his wife, and effectively urges Rhaenyras to eliminate houses completely.

Basically yes, Daemon never really wanted the throne I think, he just wanted to be included. He married Rhaenyra, his sone became king, got to sleep around as much as he wanted and died as he lived 🤷🏼‍♀️

He didn't die then i bet he lived with nettles

@@lawrencereid2767 that's the other theory, that Nettles is Leaf and he's beyond the wall waiting for Bloodraven

Idk. He kinda lost faith in what he was fighting for when Rhaenyra ordered Nettles' death. He also lost a lot of the smallfolks respect when Rhaenyra ruled kings landing. He played both the villain and hero simultaneously

I like you take, think it's very well reasoned

A lot of people overlook this but it’s true, yes fire and blood is a book written by bias maesters, but there is enough contextual evidence such as this theory give an idea of what’s true or not

@@WorldOfWesteros What theory?

@@Raleyg people say the greens all died in that they have nobody left by the end of the dance correct me if im wrong but doesn't aemond in alys rivers have a kid cuz I don't think we know what happened to aemonds kid I think we will know in fire And blood part 2

@@barronbarron6784 Exactly. The last we hear of her is that the regent are planning a campaign against her, but then the Winter Fever strikes and they have to postpone it. The Siege of Harrenhal will likely be the first big action scene of Fire and Blood 2, and would be an excellent opportunity to see notable Kingsguards we haven't been introduced to like the Pale Griffin and the Demon of Darry

@@barronbarron6784 This doesn't matter. So what if Aemond may have had a child? They probably died young, or if the kid lived and had children, then the line died out somewhere along the years. Why do I say this? Because nothing is mentioned about them in canon as far as I know. Therefore, this theory really doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things.

No good reason hundreds of years of andal and valayria law stating firstborn sons inherit over daughters and the law changed by royal degree not by popular opinion. Alicent was rightfully bitter over the whole thing.

@@animejerk05 tbh I found her as disrespectful, and a pawn for her father! I don’t know how the King allowed her to create such a divide without checking her, esp with all the green she was wearing! He should have gotten rid of her at that instant and saved thousands of lives including almost all of his sons. Dragons were lost due to pride, ego, and a want for power.

By the laws of gods and men the Greens were right.

@@animejerk05 as far as we know valyrians had no hang ups on gender, alysanne expected her first born to be heir to the throne, a girl. If you want to talk about hundreds of years of laws, then aegon had no right to the seven kingdoms, or to take a second wife, or for either of those marriages to be to a sibling. Same goes for jahaerys and Alysanne. And viserys’ parents. The only laws that matter are those that can be enforced.

@@jesseandersen4055 the valyrians did care about gender aegon was younger than visenya and yet he was the lord and not her. Alysanne used traditional succession laws to justify becoming queen ahead of aegon the uncrowned daughters and tried to discard them when it no longer suited her. Rhenyra didn't care about laws when she expected everyone to make her clearly illegitimate children the heir after her. and then throw a tantrum when her younger brother also didnt care about laws

The greens aimed for their lineage on throne and Rhae lineage on drgaonstone, but Rhae lineage ended up taking both of them.

The greens are all wiped out and Rhaenyra, sons become kings and her line goes all the way to Dany and Jon Snow

Yes even Robert, Stannis, and Renly were direct descendants from her line as well

Yeah but they're not on the throne tho and the Baratheons loathe the Targaryens. Hightowers are still a plenty. There are only a few of Targs left.

@@isiaharellano3789 a bit closer to it. Almost there.

@@betacross3675 lol until Martin actually finishes the books they're still far from it. Who knows the show ending might be canon just so Martin could troll us 🤣🤣🤣

@@isiaharellano3789 doesn't matter. None of the hightowers sat on the throne after aegon ll which was what they wanted all along

There is nothing sad about your Dragon towers' deaths; Alicent deserved to see her bloodline wiped out for starting an ultimately needless war.

@@Abdul-Akeem_Akinloye but Helaena & her kids were INNOCENT, THATS MY POINT, alicent is debatable for me(only with how she was early on) her father had it coming, But the true "Dragons Tower's" were Helaena & her children. They were innocent, they didn't deserve to be wiped out *& even then, u never pin the sins of the parents on the children*

@@redadmiralofvalyria867 You know what? I agree with you. The children of Alicent, including Aemond One-Eye, who I absolutely despise, did not deserve to get caught up in a needless and bloody family feud set up by their mother and grandfather. The point I was trying to make is that I do not feel -a- an ounce of sympathy for Queen Alicent, and feel overjoyed that she got to see the disastrous results of her actions: all her children dead, and her bloodline extinguished. I am not celebrating her children and grandchildren's deaths, per se. I am celebrating, exulting, over Alicent's loss of her loved ones, all caused by her greed for power. P.S. The Blood and Cheese incident marks prince Daemon Targaryen as a villain for me. The true _bastard_ in the family though was King Viserys I, who allowed things in his family to deteriorate so much that no one from either of the two sides of his family loved any member of the other side. He is truly one of the worst Targaryen kings. Aegon IV takes the title, though. P.P.S. Alicent's fate brings me joy, and it should do the same for you, too.

@@Abdul-Akeem_Akinloye uhhhhhh, wow, u have to be the only person to EVER respectful agree with me on this. Many fans I've seen are rather........bloody in the treatment of the "dragon towers" cause they see this opinion of mine as "proof of justification" (meaning I somehow supported the greens usurpation of the throne) or "they're all greens, aegon & his WHOLE FAMILY deserved what they got)(mind u this would indeed include Queen Helaena & her children) But yes, I do agree that seeing her die will be great(she like many villains in history will see how this tower she/they built come crashing down, and kill all who r in it) and her acknowledging that this WHOLE THING, was on her will be great(especially when she realizes it's in her) P.s: I personally blame Otto though, whether or not his intentions were good or he wanted a "peaceful solution" he made alicent into him, and he only saw himself as right(so it only makes sense once he sees himself in Alicent, that he truly be by her side)

@@Abdul-Akeem_Akinloye but yes, daemon fucked up everything by escalating it cause what I'm wanting to know is what RHAENYRA thought of her nephews death(seeing how she wished for her sister Helaena & her kids spared in the beginning)

Very nicely written

The strongs have entered the "pureblood" chat.

@@dbearded130 May I spoil it for you, two sons of Rhaenyra will be Kings, her grandchildren will be Kings and Queens of the Seven Kingdoms.

If they hadn't rebelled, Jace would've sat the throne. Thanks to the dance, at least pure Targaryens still sat the throne for a while, not until Aegon the Unworthy legitimized his blackfyres.

@@ebiakuthompson6756 I disagree I don’t want the dance of the dragons. It’s full of misery, tragedies and death all over the corners of the story.

this should be a pinned comment. i completely agree and this was well said.

@@yhulie Thank you, I sincerely appreciate that.

I agree with everything except the fact that Aegon III ascended to the throne as Aegon II's heir kinda means to me the greens technically won and imposed their 'line'...

@@tomasfuleston2065 That's not an unreasonable position at all. I was specifically referring to genetic line. But that's arbitrary on my part. Because GRRM placed enough reasonable arguments on both sides, there truly isn't a wrong answer. It's just perspective. Aegon II's heir or Rhaenyra's blood (& heir)?. GRRM strikes again. Love it.

@@Tyrion2024 but we should remember the hightowers instigated the war to put their line on throne and become major players in kingdoms. They never achieved any of those.

Baela and Rhaena have no right on the Iron Throne as long Aegon is alive. Daemon children can't overpass the eldest son of Viserys. They would have had no support to do so. Let's be honest, the war ended because the Greens accepted it, they did'nt sue for peace : Corlys sent raven to Casterly Rock, Oldtown and Storm's End and he did it because he knew they were still dangerous, particularly Oldtown. Let's say the Hightowers refused this peace : neither the starving northern army nor the Riverlords would not have been able to continue the war against them. No one won, but if the war had continued, the Blacks could never have won it.

@@alessiodandolo1460 I disagree the Blacks could merely eliminate whatever Greens remained similar to what Robb Stark initially intended to do with Joffery(kill him and put Tommen on the throne) before his true parentage was known. The Greens were even more weakned given the Ironborne raids onnthe Westerlands, the destruction of the Stormlands army(they are out of the war) which left the Hightowers and their allies against at least 3 major Black armies including the massive Northern host. Keep in mind the Blacks also had allies in the Reach. Imo I think if war continued it would've dragged on and some other settlment would've been reached. Many of the Blacks and Greens supported their preffered side for a whole host of reasons a lot of which had little to do with who was the rightful heir.

@@frankincensemerchant1284 Pure invention of you my friend : Robb Stark has no plan for Joffrey or Tommen, neither in the book, nor in the show. His only plan is to force Cersei to free his father. In the book, he is very perturbated by the idea of revolting against Joffrey, whom he considers as the legitimate king. And even if that were the case, the two situations are not comparable, because Rhaena is a girl from the younger branch, Aegon a male from the eldest branch. Rhaenyra gained support thanks to the oath that hundreds of lords took before her and thanks to her status as a king's daughter, Rhaena has neither, and after the chaos of the Dance of Dragons, no one would have fought for a girl's rights. Remember that during the Regency, simply viewing Baela as her half-brother's heir is extremely problematic, even for former Blacks. Now, about the war : Borros Baratheon has taken 4000 men to King's Landing, because he wanted to retake the city quickly, but the forces of the Stormlands are much more numerous than that. They are not broken. As for the Lannisters, I grant you that they are very busy with Dalton Greyjoy, but remember that during the War of the Five Kings, they raised two huge armies in a few weeks, and even a third after their first defeat, so they have still many forces able to fight. Don't forget their financial strength and the portion of the royal treasure they hold. In the Reach, the Blacks are destroyed : the Honeywine, the conquest of the Reach by Ormund Hightower, the siege of Longtable, the sack of Bitterbridge, the first battle of Tumbelton. It's over for them. Oldtown is able to raise and feed a large army very quickly, according to Martin himself. The Hightowers seized all the food during the war, they have a fleet, the support of the Redwynes, they have a quarter of the royal treasure, and even without, they are the undisputed richest house in Westeros at this point. Cregan Stark has an army of 10 000 men, but nothing to feed them during a long war. The Riverlands are burnt so they can't provide food. Most important : the Blacks have no financial ressources, that's one of the reasons of Rhaenyra's demise. Besides, who can believe a word Cregan Stark says ? The guy didn't fight a single battle, spent the entire war hiding in Winterfell when Rhaenyra was alive. He's not going to put his life in danger now that she's dead. He's just a blusterer ! Conclusion : could the Blacks win a battle against Aegon's allies ? Perhaps with luck. But they are unable to wage a long war against wealthiest and more powerful houses with impregnable seats. Corlys Velaryon knows it, that's why he sends raven to Aegon's allies, and that's why everyone in King's Landing fears the answer of the Hightowers.

@@alessiodandolo1460 Rhaenyra didn't call on Cregan to bring his full army down untill Kings Landing rioted andbthe same with the Arryns plus Cregan's host was is estimated to be between 10k-20k. As for the Lannisters raising two big hosts in the War of the Fuve Kings then that's irrelevant as it happened more than a century after the Dance and they dynamics were very different by then. You are also forgetting the Arryns who are largely untouched. Now regarding the Reach yes the Hightowers control but only by razor thin margin, with Black forces now being succesful those areas would've revolted and we know in pitched battles WITHOUT Dragons the Blacks far outperform the Greens. Now the seiges is where I give it to you hence why imo it would've ultimately been a stalemate. But as for Cregan he wasn't afraid of war in fact not long after the Civil War he repelled amjor wildling invasion with the Mountain Clans. Also the Stormland forces were 6000 at the time which was a big chunk of their forces that got decimated. Remember we are tlaking about nunbers for the Dance of the Dragon not the War of the Five Kings which takes a century and a half later. Also Robb Stark did entertain the idea of taking put Joffery(post Ned Stark execution) and putting Tommen on the throne. When I say many Lords picked sides for other reasons a good example is Borros Baratheon who picked the Green side due to getting marriage proposals. I am willing to bet that a lot of the major Reach lords that choose Rhaenyra did so in part to counter the rising Hightower infleunce. In short while the Greens have the economic advantage they didn't have the military advantage especially if one looks at their track record in pitched battles without Dragons(The Riverland forces many at times would defeat Green armies via superior tactics).

@@frankincensemerchant1284 Cregan's host is probably around 10k, perhaps a little more or a little less, but again, to wage a war, you need financial ressources and you need food, and the Blacks have none, except from the Vale but in winter, they don't represent a real threat for the Greens. If the Riverlords are still able to fight after what they went through in the war (even if it seems to be a plot armor for the Blacks) then so can the Lannisters, Hightowers and Baratheons, let's be logical. Cregan Stark is typically the character Martin has fun with and with which he deliberately deceives the reader. Everyone persists in seeing him as a great, charismatic warrior when everything, absolutely everything in his actions tells us otherwise. The reader is fooled by two elements : the character's outward appearance, very imprecise in its description by the way, and the fact that he is a Stark. For the rest, clues to its true nature abound : He takes more than two years to intervene, he arrives precisely when there are no more dragons to fight (exactly like Borros Baratheon), he manages to arrive after the Riverlords, he talks about continuing a war even though he does not have the human and material ressources, he threatens Corlys Velaryon but gives up as soon as Alyn Velaryon threatens in turn, he talks about executing everyone but only executes two people, he gives up his charge at the end for a day to let Tyland Lannister, the most loyal member of the Green Council, rule the kingdom. In the end, the guy did absolutely nothing except wait, talk and threaten in vain, but always managing to preserve his image. The Blacks could line up a hundred thousand men on the battlefield and it wouldn't change anything. They don't have the material resources. The Hightowers have the gold, the food and the ability to recover from defeat much more quickly.

why? because he was handsome, had a dragon, and never direclty commited any atrocities? he failed to stop his army raping tumbleton when he had a dragon, failed to stand up to Unwin Peake or Hugh and Ulf, and in the end he died achieving nothing but ravaging the reachlands and getting his family killed

He might have been cut 😭

@@Liverpool-Thedirtyredteam hopefully not , but it does seem to be going that way

Exactly. And the knowledge of the survival of the White Walkers became almost permanently lost until Rhaegar. I would not be surprised if the ending of this show zooms away to the far north and shows the Night King opening his cold, blue eyes.

There were dragons that survived the dance but they were small and weak. The death of Rhaenys and Rhaenyra is directly tied to the decline of dragons.

A lot of what you said really makes sense

Opinion: I almost feel pity for him because his reign was absolutely miserable. He was unconscious for a good half of it and then the other half he was in constant physical agony and lost all his family members. I almost feel sorry for him but I can’t help thinking he brought it on himself in a way. Surprisingly from reading the lore, he’s not the worst member of the Greens. His mother, Ser Criston Coke, Larys Strong we’re awful. He actually was going to do the right thing but was manipulated out of it. That is where my sympathy draws in because he didn’t want to do it from the beginning and was actually doing the right thing by obeying his fathers wishes unlike the rest of the Greens that betrayed Viserys as soon as he drew his last breathe. In that way I can say he was loyal to his father even though their relationship isn’t much specified in the books. He was probably thinking that in his last moments that if he had not taken the throne then his children wouldn’t be dead and he wouldn’t be a severely burned cripple. I bet most of the Greens in the end we’re experiencing high forms of regret. Especially since they didn’t even win in the end. The war was about which bloodline would come out on top and it was Rhaenyra’s. And to add insult to injury he was betrayed by his own men, not that I feel sorry for him on that, but that’s just pitiful to go through all that trouble to be sold out by your own men and knowing that as your dying your enemy wins because the matter of succession went through Rhaenyra’s children not his. Even though he’s a despicable character, his ending almost makes you feel sorry for him. ALMOST (for me)

But the fact is at the end of the Dance, House Hightower is by far the richest house on the continent and had preserved its wealth, influence and power in Oldtown. We can't say that the Blacks won because they fought to keep their oath to Rhaenyra and failed as she is considered as a pretender who lost when Aegon is considered as the rightful king, even by Rhaenyra's descendants or former supporters. I would say that nominally the Greens won because the real cause of the war is the succession of Viserys, not the bloodline for the next century. For the rest, no one really won.

That bald loser knows nothing.

Of course a Baratheon would say that when they sided with the greens and Borros Baratheon got himself killed by a guy named Kermit. Kermit's father was named Elmo, how funny.

@@SorceressWitch stannis is also rhaenyra's descendant? so technically her own descendants call her a traitor just like everyone else in westeros except some irrelevant dornish

I don’t even think it was male primogeniture the greens were fighting for per se but moreso the Hightowers wanted one of their own on the throne.I still think if Alicent gave birth to 4 daughters she still would’ve tried to put her oldest daughter on the throne.

@@rouskeycarpel1436 lol no that’s a reach

@@rouskeycarpel1436 It absolutely was about male primogeniture, because the scenario you're hypothesizing would only solidify Rhaenyra's claim as Viserys' legitimate heir. How can her hypothetical younger sisters usurp her claim? They can't, they'll only be able to if they were wed and bore sons of their own and THOSE sons can rival Rhaenyra's claim. (If we're even arguing about the purity of Targaryen blood, Rhaenyra would easily win over those hypothetical daughters: Aemma's own mother was a Targaryen). If the Greens weren't fighting for male primogeniture and only wanted one of their own on the throne, then neither the books or the show would put so much emphasis on how Rhaenyra would be a weak-willed or inappropriate ruler for her infidelity, how she's weakened by childbirth, etc. The assassination of her character (in the eyes of the court) as a WOMAN heir is always the first thing they put to question. Moreover, the rest of the Realm wouldn't even look at Alicent's hypothetical daughters' way because why would they? What would they have that Rhaenyra doesn't, that would be appealing to either commoners or the Houses that back the Targaryens? By the time Alicent's children matures, Rhaenyra will have had her three Velaryon sons, assuring the Realm that she will be succeeded by a King and her heirs are secure. This war on succession was very much a gendered conflict, in the books and in the show. The precedence Jaeherys and the Great Council established show that when an opportunity to establish an absolute primogeniture arose, it will be rejected.

@@adrestlia if it is male primogeniture… Well, Rhaenyra had a son already so, it has priority over second son without heirs.

@@SouthJerzVillains yeah it is a reach based of his staunch *Blacks* bias, its pretty fascinating how tribal humans can get with who they support no matter the circumstances or evidence, even in fantasy worlds.

My dog just died💯

@@DingoAteMyMail my condolences

@UCx3gGVrkgfZj5C1p2_RdDrA the hightowers are doing fine and are still a powerful house. No house really won. They both just lost differently. Rhaenrya is in the history books as a usurper even though the crown was rightfully hers.

and the dragons

The Mad King thought his words were law and thought he could do as he likes too look what happened to him. Viserys said it himself “Even I’m not above laws and traditions”

Tbh, nobody was. Everything was realistically grey Both sides had an arguably claim and considerable flaws. Viserys was definitely wrong tho. He went against precedent and 'laws', halfheartedly named Rhaenyra heir (merely insisted but didn't actually do much to ensure she would be accepted), didn't do anything to prevent that rift and basically ignored the growing problems.

Aegon II was king and his world was law

He was a usurper

@@miracleyang3048 Death to the green usurper

@@raphaelostrowski6336 im very excited for Unwin Peake in particular, he starts the war as a nobody with like 800 men and ends it with a Valyrian steel sword and as hand of the king, with almost a royal marriage

@@chrisrubin6445 And despite all the shenanigans they are involved with over the centuries, by the time of the War of the Five Kings, the Peakes have yet to be extinguished as a House.

@@Abdul-Akeem_Akinloye i wonder if some Peake out there somewhere has OrphanMaker

@@chrisrubin6445 Hmm. I can't say. We do know there is at least one Peake across the narrow sea plotting with the Golden Company to sit fAegon on the throne. The Peakes should have been wiped out, for their unflinching support for House Blackfyre, especially after causing the death of Aegon's V's dad (I can't remember his name).

Exactly.. Now someone has said some logic...

First point, helena was loved, aegon was never loved by people in realm. 2) If rhae was described as maegor with tits, aemond commited worst genocide in history of westoros, aegon was described as worst targaryen king. He ws burned so evils of his reign are burned with it2) Aegon only sat on throne foru to five times before being crippled, not after that, so not being cut doesn't hold. 3) If he killed aegon 3, lads would have broken every bone in his body and then cut all his parts, then placed daemon daughter Rhaena on throne aegon had 50 men left compared to 30000 lads plus starks. All his loyalists we're given royal pardon in name of aegon 3, all his remaining forces bent knee to lads so riverlords took the city.

​@@amritanand8137that's some serious Copium. Aegon isn't close to being considered the worst Targaryen king when Maegor the cruel and Aerys II the mad king are right there. They were at war noone chastises Aemond for commiting "genocide". When did he even do that? The Riverlands? That doesn't count because they were aligned with the enemy. Aegon the conqueror butchered every living thing in Harenhall and killed thousands on the field of fire but noone considers what he did genocide because they were at war. Rhaenyra is considered by history a usurper and a cruel queen. The guy above you didn't make up that title she is considered Maegor with tits by the people of Westeros forevermore.

No it won't. The great council votes had an overwhelming majority in favor of viserys. Rhaenyra/aegon votes would certainly be an almost even result. Which would be a civil war either way.

Yes but for that to even work Viserys had to call that great council whilst he held the crown, the claimants can't call a great council vote because they would just fight it out. Viserys was weak and he caused the dance despite his loyalty to his first wife's daughter

your very correct i would also argue house lannister also gained a lot with the decline of house velaryon post war

Growing Strong

Basically she lost her mind and she was locked as a prisoner in the Maegor's Holdfast for the rest of her life. (She once terrified her own granddaughter Jaehaera by suggesting she slit Aegon's throat.) Oh, and she began to hate the green color... lol

@@luminaratano3935 damn... what a downfall

@@luminaratano3935 Yeah. Cregan gave her a fitting punishment, imo, and a twist on her name - locking her in a "high tower" to face her crimes and go mad from her grief and guilt. Starks can be downright ruthless with their punishments when they need to be.

@@ladygrey7425 Didn't Tyland confine her to the holdfast?

@@luminaratano3935 I already loathe her in the show. Can't wait to see her downfall. 🤣 Her actress, Olivia Cooke, is doing a great job.

His honor.

They had a couple of Dragons left like Morning.

@@mori1bund LOL. Basically.

he made a Pact with Jacaerys Velaryon that he would seat Rhaenyra or her heirs on the iron throne

@@raphaelostrowski6336 this is very wrong 😂

This is the most interesting answer, amid all the predictable military and royal family legacy based analyses. Notice that dragons (WMDs) and Targs to ride them do not come back into the picture until there is another destructive threat that they in a way balance or counter, In Dany's time. Fire counters Ice. But waiting in the wings is the Greenseer/ Earth power that will balance out the seasons and reset the whole truce with the Childen. *Bran may turn into a tree hive mind person with nothing human left, but he might just be the ruler Westeros needs.*

@@eric2500 No more terrible wars and endless death for cruel petty kings and lords,just one true king was duty as protector of the realm will never truly end.

YES, THEY DID BECAUSE THEY PRODUCED DAENERYS & JON SNOW WHO HELPED TAKE OUT THE WHITEWALKERS

Yes, but at a great price, the dragons...

No the greens won the war. Aegon killed the pretender. Team black's head died first.

Rhaenyra and Daemon on the throne would be a danger to the green boys because of their stronger claim

Desmond?

@@harukrentz435 autocorrect. I meant Deamon

And this is without talking about how Aegon II died

rhaenyra was able to have sex with criston, harwin and daemon (they're hot af), was able to enjoy life and to ascend the iron throne for a short time. she died a badass cursing aegon Ii while Sunfyre was bathing her in flames. and her line succeeds in the ends

Ageon 3 ended up marrying daughter of Ageon 2 so you cant say only the blacks won

@@manavkhandurie his daughter died without having any children so Aegon 2 line is finished

@@harshagrawal1056 yea that marriage was done to only finish the war .

@@manavkhandurie Nope, war was over when battle of kingsroad happened and every last of man of green army died. Greens had no army, nothing left. Blacks had 30000 men remaining in army, all green supporters were pardoned. Aegon 3 was coronated and then the war was over and corlys suggested to marry them to combine both lines to which aegon 3 agreed on his own will but then she died as well.

@@manavkhandurie As far as milatary battles are concerned blacks won decisively, they just had a stupid commander over them. They won the final battle left green defenceless and if aegon 2 dared to kill aegon 3, they would have beheaded him in front of whole kingdom and placed daemon daughter on throne. But the council realised it and poisoned him for the good.