Who's The BEST Missile Infantry? - Warhammer 2 

My head canon is that elves have incredibly inefficient lifestyles and training / combat techniques because they have no time restrictions on anything so everything they do takes way too long for them to do, whereas the more fleeting lives of the other races actually makes them better at a lot of stuff because they have a need to save time.

@@bartandaelus359 my head cannon is rifle plus shield is a really powerful trick, no need to out think tech in a fantasy world lmao

@@bartandaelus359 actually the average warhammer elf only gets 900 years old

@@theradddragon9362 IMO this supports his argument; because of their long lives, the elves are so complacent that they're still using bows while their enemies are using firearms.

To be fair in the tabletop jezzails would get their shit kicked in by waywatchers. Dont know where ca got the idea to make them accurate since in the tabletop they are as accurate as handgunners. They just got the reliable rule which ment that they dont explode quite as easily as other skaven inventions.

They do have a campaign specific crossbow unit that you can unlock, not sure if they're selectable for multiplayer or not though.

@@shigerufan1 they have empire units in campaign. Sames ogres, they are not available on ranked multiplayer

Actually Vampire Counts have sylvanian crossbowmen and handgunners, which are identical to empire counterparts. And they can only be unlocked in campaign...

@@GreenHoleSun yeas, but those units were represented already by the empire, while ogres arent

I think the Vampire Counts (at least depending on which Legendary Lord you choose) should have more human (specifically Empire units) troops. In the three VC novels the story follows first Vlad, then Konrad, and then Mannfred. Vlad is the most stable and honorable of the three, and every Empire force he battles is given the choice to surrender and he'll spare them. And he ends up with quite a few living human troops who are actually loyal to him. Yeah some are only out of fear (Vlad does say "Serve me willingly in life, or slave for me in death." after all), but Vlad is a vampire of his word. He welcomes and accepts those who give him their loyalty into his ranks, and seems like he treats his living soldiers fairly well. They're not fodder like the zombies and skeletons, and he doesn't let vampires and ghouls treat them as nothing but food, so his human troops respect and are loyal to him. So I think that Empire troops, besides ones that are more "holy" like Knights of the Blazing Sun and Sigmar priests, or troops that are loyal solely to the Emperor like many of the knightly orders, could easily be loyal Sylvanian troops. Crossbowmen, Hand Gunners, Swordsmen, Spearmen, Greatswords, Outriders, Cannons, etc should all be available to the VCs in campaign if Vlad is your leader. They could balance it by making them more expensive, limiting the numbers, or something else. But it's not unreasonable for them to fight for Vlad.

Love this idea! A separate “Olympic series” would also be cool. Like what he was talking about with this one, how fast can they take out a shaggoth, maybe see what anti large infantry beats some high tier cav, how fast can monsters wipe out great swords, etc.

Great idea! Another way of evening out the gold cost is veterancy ranks - you can buy them in MP for individual units, and they increase missile damage, reload rate, and I think accuracy as well?

Agreed gold value matching I have tested my self an it make sa bit of a difference

@@Jefrejtor its only reload rate and acurracy, the dmg increase is because the "missle strenght" stat show dmg over 10 sec.

Pound-for-pound match-ups, love it!

True. But once the enemy archers are gone, you can focus on the rest of their army

Well, jezzails are pretty damn good at shredding single entities and infantry too

Well it isn't even that. Range is horribly nerfed due to the pairing up approach. What would actually happen is the longer range units would 5v1 their opponent and then have an incredible advantage when the ranges actually close. This is why darkshards do so much better than you'd think here, in a real fight SoA would obliterate them because of focused fire at range. The same is true of stalking units. The Waywatchers would open some of these lost fights by immediately focusing down one opponent. This all said the author explained the test isn't valid at the start.

Yeah he should have tested how fast each different archer kills one type of unit

@@GMorgan84 yep why I do like range and range combined with stalk, its all about focus firing

While that would be funny and ratling gunners absolutely would dumpster everyone on this list, I kinda disagree with the use of warplock jezzails here. This is a missile infantry test, and the skaven bought weapons teams. Skaven do have missile infantry in night runners and gutter runners, as well as skaven slave slingers.

@@parmenides6800 Hmm, this is a bit complicated. I think that Ushabti Greatbows might be classified as Monsterous infantry?

@@CrazyYanmega They are. Monstrous Missile Infantry. One of its kind designation before the arrival of Maneater Pistols and, eventually, Leadbelchers.

@CrazyYanmega In this case I suppose the reasoning for using the weapons teams is that they are still largely used in the same way as most archer units and the same is also true for the Ushabti Greatbows. As for ratling gunners, they probably would beat many of the lower achievers here, but against the higher tier units they will more likely get destroyed before they are close enough to fire, since what really helped the Jezzails was their extreme range combined with their higher than average resistance to other ranged units.

taking range into consideration, ratling guns aren't all that great. They lose to handgunners IIRC. Sisters of avelorn and waywatchers wipe them out before they get close.

Or just use Skaven Slaves as human shields. Not like their gonna be useful in anything else :/

@@bigj1905 I can never get my ratling guns to fire through skavenslaves. It always just says "obstructed" and leaves it at that.

This is the Skaven. There is no such thing as friendly fire. Only fire.

@@RatQueen413 the ai will refuse to shoot through friendly units even for the skaven, they only seem to shoot friendlies from pure volume of fire and aim

Put your flamer units at the front of your army. Then move your hero in front. They will take minimal damage but the enemies crowding around the heros will melt. I always run two flamer dwarfs or two warpfire throwers in this configuration.

Warp fires are good in campaign. Quick and cheap to recruit. Cheap upkeep and works fine against the stupid ai.

Autoresolve really fucking loves those bastards though.

Depend on range you want to melt the enemy. It you want a more safety distance. Use Rattling gun to stall the enemy and burn them to ashes. Close range... Heroes at the front and two warpfire at the flank, Burn them as the cross style.

Flanking thats what they do. Utterly ruin units on the flank

HA! Look at that. The Wutelgi are starting to copy us!

Me too!

Yeah, love it. I have a pretty good grasp of the numbers, but sometimes expectations get in the way. I really didn't expect ushabti to do defeat waystalkers... cheers..

Especially gunnery mob handguns - since they've got a higher dmg output than that of deckgunners - and are a little more resilient too.

Even the sea guards with shield would be interesting as the shield gives them a huge advantage in this type of competition.

I guess rangers would do pretty well with their regen

Huntsmen and Shadow Walkers are definitely better than Handgunners and Sisters. Especially the Shadow Walkers as they are extremely annoying and frustrating to deal with, whereas Sisters are just a strong unit.

@@sarmatiancougar7556 Sisters are way better than Shadow Walkers in straight shootouts. Better range, more dmg, magic & armor piercing. SW can be better in other situations, but not for this...

Guess it is unsub for you, if you don't like the new drinking game format :(

yeah you could do that but in no situation would you actually do it, whereas skirmishing is in the waywatchers' DNA

Its more that Darkshards are better in a straight firefight. Shades have fewer men, so if a unit of Darkshards and a unit of Shades shoot each other the Darkshards will just end up dealing more damage, especially the shielded variant sicne that one is also WAY more resistant to getting shot than shades. Shades are still better overall in campaign for a few reasons. First, archer duels are easy to avoid, and they have stronger melee, vanguard, stalk and the frankly ridiculous number of buffs they can get from techs, red line skills and Names of Power. If you strip away all the buffs and force them to just trade shots evenly they lose a ton of their value.

Yeah shades rack up so many kills in campaign

Darkshards get buffed consistently in campaign by the player. That makes a fair difference ianm.

Darkshards have the significant advantage of AP damage and Shields, which makes them extremely effective at pure archery. Shades are better once you juice them up in campaign, but Darkshards are far more cost effective since everything you pay for is directly related to dealing and surviving ranged damage.

with shades you also put in a bunch of money for their melee prowess, which again doesn't serve this matchup.

There is only one answer.... skeletons

Ungor herd.for the win

Who lasts longest against the krimson killas?

@@Spitefulrish goblins are better for soaking missle damage

Then after that it's, "who's the best generic lord"

Could you imagine a whole fukken' unit of Waystalkers, though?

I would think quarrelers would be stronger too

@@perrymeril The AP damage of Thunderers matters a lot in these shootouts. Many of these units have 30+ armor, which is the rought cutoff point for when handguns outdamage crossbows. Plus, straight-firing units also tend to be more accurate.

It's dwarf quarrelers

@@Srab23 he'd probably use rangers, which would still smash

@@Srab23 honestly, yes. i'm surprised that the thunderers did so well against the shielded darkshards, considering that most of the darkshard's resilience comes from their exceptional shield (which doesn't really care if thunderers have a lot of armour piercing damage). i'm sure quarrellers would fare even better, since their reload is shorter and they're still as well-armoured as the thunderers.

@@caelestigladii Yeah....Whats that got to do with the deck gunners? i would not suprise me if Deck gunners are artillery as well since they come from the same building.

@@caelestigladii i see, i retract my previous comment.

They do. Deckgunners output about 500 damage less every 10 seconds (with 24 units in it) than gunnery mob handguns (with 120 units). They are however incredibly accurate - able to hit small targets at max range with ease.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

thanks for this. was wondering about that.

That's what i would love to see.

Yes, and add different terrain types. Jezzails and thunderers are only that good in plains which you don't see that often in the campaign.

@@axlknightwhosaysni5336 Even outside of plains you just need to find some clear space to use them, most maps aren't 90% forested, and for hills you just need to go either at the very top or the very bottom of a hill to make them able to shoot over other units.

Mine was 1. Sisters of averlon 2 waywatcher 3. Thunderers

@@devildevious2646 sisters aren't so much strong but very noob easy to use

If they can be on the wall. it will be an easy victory for the defender.

IF anyone wants to put them on walls, there is a mod for that, just for you information

Then again, they are packing the fantasy equivalent of an M82 Barrett. So they are still having an advantage.

Yeah, not even really fair to include Skaven weapon teams as they're in this weird place between infantry and artilary.

@@Aethgeir what about great bow ushabti and deck gunners? i think these are actually classed as artillery in terms of their projectile, so completely bypass shields (i don't think jezzails are artillery, but might bypass shields anyway as their attacks are magical… but then again, so are the missiles fired by the sisters of avelorn)

@@soupalex jezzails have shield breaker which reduces the effectiveness of shields.

@@snakeballs8965 yes, so do deck gunners. according to the wiki, however, shields are only effective against non-magical, non-artillery missile attacks. so a target receiving the "shieldbreaker" status after being shot by jezzails/deck gunners/etc. would not become more vulnerable to further jezzail/deck gunner fire (but it _would_ have its damage reduction vs missiles from e.g. slingers or zombie handgunners significantly reduced)

Yeah he used Darkshards over Shades but not Lothern Sea Guard over Sisters of Averlorn :O

@@bluenicholasbf2142 im pretty sure that he run every unit of the factions against each other just like this video. so every HE ranged unit against each other and the winner which won vs everyone will be competing in the actual video, so sisters beat lothern sea guard.

I've got the top 3 right here! 1. Broken Beastmen Chariots 2. Broken Beastmen Chariots 3. Broken Greenskins Chariots

@@Zerkovich thats fair hahahhahahahhaa

@@Zerkovich one more thing, maybe Shades would have done better. In multiplayer at least they are hard to hit by enemy projectiles and i usually get around 2000 value with one unit cause the hit like trucks.

They’de still get recked by things like thunderers

@@braedenconti36 True, but that's easily their worst match up. I reckon they easily beat the handgunners and jezails. There might even be some surprises against the elves.

@@PythonicMethod If rushing into melee is an option, we'd be seeing Free Company Militia and Arrer Boyz in the competition.

You mean waystalkers :D

@@PythonicMethod not sure how well darkshards would do, but sisters would butcher them in melee and waywatchers would kite

They would be weaker in this situation though. They don't have shields, they have less range and they are technically anti large. It's the jezzails who are anti infantry.

don't forget the poorly made wooden shield equals silver, meanwhile gromril shields equal bronze

Well, yes, but what people are complaining about *are* the conditions chosen because they change the question being answered into something wildly different from the title.

Like they are not designed to play this way. They are the most “modern” army in terms for structure they have a force multiplayer with detachment for almost every occasion

Chameleons I think would be better competing against skirmish cav than other infantry.

They probably have the best magic in terms of sheer amount of WoM you can bring. Mazda + Kroak is like 120 WoM out the gate. And a good variety of lores.

@@morcosnedal2479 Absolutely. Lizardmen are boosted immensely with how well their army synergizes. Weird units like Teradon Riders and Bastiladons do great at patching up individual weaknesses to create truly formidable armies. Chameleon skinks are basically backline sweepers or melee supports. This was still a fun test to see their output in this regard, but it doesn't show the unit's borderline abusive strength.