Who's the BEST? - Melee Infantry Units Showdown Warhammer 2 

Blood Bowl is great to watch if you crave sports and enjoy Warhammer haha

LMFAO true

sportsball sucks anyway unless you're playing it

Tell that to my Lobster Knife Fighting Pit.

@@VoermanIdiot you've clearly been utilising your time very well.

I agree! Removing RoR would make this interesting for sure, and the other comparisons would be awesome too (although harder to define what's best in those cases... Would it be which archers are best vs other archers? Which artillery is best vs other artillery?)

Non RoR it's something like... S Tier - Chosen GW, Hoemasters A Tier - Executioners, Hammerers, Ironbreakers, Sisters of Slaughter, other Chosen B Tier - Phoenix Guard, Black Guard, Temple Guard C Tier - Greatswords, Grave Guard GW, Wildwood Rangers, Bestigors, Marauder Champions, Black Orks D Tier - Depth Guard, Stormvermin, Tomb Guard, Foot Squires

@@OniGanon Black orcs D Tier??

@@ransomwisley2429 In a vacuum 1v1 without WAAAGH!, yes.

OniGanon ok I respect it 👏🏼👏🏼

Yes. Best tarpit unit.

My bet would be the Miners, good luck beating 70 armor with fodder tier infantry.

@@RHINO_Mk_II I always found miners break easily to just orc boyz, even with missile support. That 70 armor doesn't seem to amount to much (somehow?). When we talk about chaff, miners are good, but they are pricey IIRC (compared to other chaff from other races). My bet would be on chaos marauders (and normal marauders for Norsca), they are actually a pretty good unit all around, and perform decently in both MP and Campaign.

@@ScurvyBoi I don't have Norsca DLC, so I kind of forgot about them. I guess you are right.

@@todalio9238 Yeah, for their cost marauders are very good, they really do feel like the backbone of an army, they will rout after taking damage, but not as easily as skavenslaves.

I think the greatswords are a meme unit still because they were a meme in Medieval as well.

@@thomasdenney6898 why

@@Ahrone1586 They underperform for their cost.

@@victuz They are going up against guys that are almost twice their cost here tbf :/ I just take swordsmen or spearmen to hold the lines while I get handgunners to do AP damage instead of GS

@@Beowulf-eg2li CA made WH2 too ranged reliant, that's why greatswords and other melee damage dealers need to receive a buff in WH3, they are supposed to shred the enemy lines even if they receive damage themselves, not to perform almost the same as swordsmen.

I adopted this name. I also do this... Thanks Zerk! I love it! :D

The coolest looking unit that I never have to recruit lmao

This is hilarious but sadly Idk if it's true. The Greenskins are fungal humanoids in 40K but I don't think they are in Fantasy. Still though millennia of skill, seeming racial psychosis (like their 40K Dark Eldar version), religious fanatacism and hate, etc... versus "Time fo a foight boyz! WAAAAAAAAGHH!" 😆

@@angelusumbra5741 I honestly don't know, but the a fanwiki cites a Skarsnik novel as saying they're fungus

@@ProneOyster You could be right. I'm just saying I know for sure that they're fungus people, even growing full Orkoids (they're Orks in 40K, but Orcs in FB) from mushrooms, in the 40K setting. Although I'm a lot more familiar with that setting than with Fantasy I am pretty sure about this, because the Black Orcs that are only in Fantasy were bred/created as a slave warrior caste by the Chaos Dwarves before rising up and leaving. And in 40K the various space Greenskins don't breed at all, and instead procreate by releasing fungal spores especially upon dying.

@@ProneOyster Okay I just looked it up. In the Skarsnik novel from Black Library they mention that Night Goblins come from spores, but that could be due to this type of Goblin species being obsessed with and or symbiotic with fungi. In the past editions (1st through 3rd) of Fantasy female Orcs existed and had models. There were also Half Orcs in those early editions. And apparently early 40K had mentions of something called "Femboyz" as an Ork mutation, but it wasn't ever gone into and that was way back when Space Marines weren't huge and were just buff guys in power armor. As for in Fantasy Battle there were female and half Orcs in the past, but they haven't been mentioned in a while. And Games Workshop hasn't for sure said that the Greenskins (besides the mention about specifically Night Goblins in that one story novel) are fungal like in 40K. But honestly they've done A LOT of stream lining in both settings, so maybe it's now an unstated but assumed thing. And if you're wondering, I used 1d4chan mainly for the info. As well as trying to double check with some other wikis... This is one of the problems with GW. They like to retcon to remove things, but then don't clearly say what the deal is now. I get why they've changed and removed certain things over the years, but they could do a better job with the clarifications. Although... no info is better than the past canon of prior 40K editions written by Matt Ward. "Our Spiritual Liege" indeed. 😝 What's the name of the site you used? There's a few fan wikis, and while I think I know which one you mean I'm not 100% sure. And I'd appreciate cause I like reading the articles on those sites. ☺

@@angelusumbra5741 warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Greenskins#fn_3a here's the specific reference

Th Random Pug lmao

One could say they were out of their league.

@Amaurus - hahaha lol 😂

@@amauruss What an unfathomable pun.

@@carnivoriousleaf that's deep

I was wondering that too. Because swordmasters beat Chosen GW but lost to the Keepers, which also then lost to Chosen GW.

should have only used normal units

MaHaL1337 Also Halberd DG won because of better armorpiercing which is a huge difference.

@@Spider-Too-Too not really, he should have just put rank 9 on all non RoR units

Chosen (GW) with max veterancy actually beat all units on the list

Either excluding RoR, or ONLY having RoR. It felt really awkward to see the greatswords fight against RoR, when they have their own RoR version of themselves.

Yeah the chosen and gs were always gonna lose to RoR like really krimson killers isnt a fair match up

Wouldn't really change much would it now that we know the results right? The fact that the Chosen with Great Weapons are at the top of the list already even with RoRs against them just shows that they're the best damage dealing infantry in the game. It'd be nice to see where regular Black Orcs or Phoenix Guard end up but the rankings by faction would probably end up really similar.

@@ktvindicare Maybe somewhat similar, but there would be fewer halberd infantry. It would also make more sense for players who primarily play the campaign :)

@@ktvindicare and if it should be for multiplayer "damage done/cost" would make more sense :)

Agreed

Not quite. Top 1 without RoR would have been swordmasters of hoeth

They lose to max chevroned swordmasters

The_Drop Bear I’m pretty sure swordmasters beat keepers of the flame. Swordmasters are disgustingly good and in my own testing do better than keepers of the flame..

@@thegreatskinkpriest8104 Probably think max chevroned swordmasters beat everything from previous tests it's really close again chosen with gw

The_Drop Bear Chosen are terrifying in the vortex armies that spawn. They usually have at least 6 chevrons and beat the brakes off of anything you send at them bar swordmasters.

ORKZ IZ DA BIGGEST AN' DA STRONGEST

100% they cop a significant chunk of damage from not being braced, which also means they lose their Martial Mastery earlier. My guess is that they may have placed 4th or even 3rd if they had been braced.

@Meba Maybe, BUT they'd perform much better. Chosen barely beat them. I think the Keepers would take that match up. The Executioner unit will certainly win but it would be a little closer. Peak Gate will be 50/50 and I think even Krimson Killers will be razor thin as well.

Not using charge defence is just as dumb as not using charge bonus. Either walk all units into combat without charges to compare straight melee or let defenders brace and chargers charge.

@Meba True, but at least it isn't deliberately handicapping one and not the other. I'd rather the defenders brace and the chargers charge. Only time a defender should charge in a test like this is if they're facing other defenders.

I'd also like to see how the Ironbreakers RoR does with fire at will turned off to avoid cheating but braced for their charge defense perk.

He should have incuded them. He could have disabled the auto-fire and used ALT+click to send them on a melee charge.

@@carlchristianlindalen9311 he did state in the video that if you do that they lose pretty handily to those hammerers

This was an infantry unit comparison, and ironbreakers are definitely infantry units, but they are wise enough to have bombs with them. Should have let them into the brawl.

@@beerkenstein did you watch the video? He did let them into the brawl and they lost to the hammerers when using his criteria, hence they didn't earn their place in the big tournament

@@houndofculann1793 Did YOU watch it? He disabled their bombing skill when doing so. Shouldn't have, they are op infantry in-game, especially because they use bombs too. Dark elves and tomb kings also get a racial advantage, so this decision was rather subjective for me.

I'd like to see how they'd stack up in a 2v1 situation, vs some of those more expensive units. They're close to half the price of most of the winners here.

Then what would the Greatswords be?

Agreed. I want to see more videos like this! Compare stats! The nerd in me wants to get those sweet nerd gains. This is like steroids for my inner nerd

It would definitely affect the outcome, but how often do you see people bringing in fully leveled elite units to a match? Sure it would tell you who is most capable of being the best of the best, but it wouldn't tell you who is more likely to win in more common multiplayer battle situations.

I agree with englishmuffein. Max chevrons would up the price considerably, way too far for multiplayer so what you see here is the most likely circumstance.

@@rovers141 if I'm not wrong they would cost similar to ROR phoenix guards (1650 vs 1685) and cost equalized (3 silver chevron) sword master beat krimson killers (just tested) , so no u should account with vet cause ROR are already max vet if there was an option to have them at base vet it would be better for testing , but alas we are stuck with this, so we better do fair and optimal tests (or exclude ROR to remove this problem)

@@malox1696 I agree with the chevron argument. if there was a swordmaster ror it would have been top 3 at least.

Also, realistic battlefield duels isn't the point of this video. The point is to figure out which infantry unit is the best. So they really should've been upgraded to max veterancy.

Honestly though, lizards don't need a super strong infantry unit. I would be a bit bothered if they had the strongest infantry unit on top of everything else they have.

@@rovers141 Do they need it no. Should they have it probably. Temple Guard are meant to be that they'll fuck up basically anything you send them at unit. That's both in TT and in the lore as well. They had a very short list of elite infrantry units (that wasn't even always a Guarantee) they would lose to on TT and they would bleed those units to basically no impact after fighting them. My biggest fear for the Lizardmen was Temple Guard being like regular Halberd Elite infrantry where they couldn't compete with other Elite Infrantry. Sadly that fear was justified and instead of the well rounded super soldiers we got something else entirely.

@@lastdefenderofxhotl i mean in the lore slayers can solo dragons and trolls without help, so its a give and take i suppose. The dinos already have rexes on roids and bodybuilding crocs, if you add blender infantry they'll be unstoppable

F

@@p2jack2000 In lore certain slayers can solo dragons. Albeit most of them will die trying which is the whole point. A congregation of slayers like a decent number of them together could probably kill a dragon with solid losses but again that's the whole point. The troll angle is weird because the gulf between the average troll and the average dwarf is probably only like 4 to 1 as in it would probably take 4 Dwarfs to kill 1 troll. In the case of the average slayer it's more like 2 to 1. The lack of armour is surprisingly beneficial because of the extra speed for evading which is kind of a necessity unless you've got really good gear, and the willingness to die makes for more risky attacks and increases chance of instant kills. A lone normal slayer killing a normal troll isn't the likely outcome but it's certainly not irregular. The issue with Temple Guard is they're just as skilled as their other elite infrantry counterparts. Yet unlike their counterparts are also 9 foot tall Lizards who can crush "small" boulders in their bare hands, and are remarkably fast and well coordinated with natural fighting and killing instincts. That's ignoring that just on equipment alone they beat every other elite infrantry because they the dexterity and strength to use a armour piercing 2 handed polearm in 1 hand and a (very big) shield at the same time. Like logically they should just never lose.

Swordmasters beat Chosen GW more times than they lose in a straight 1v1 fight. Martial Prowess and the bonus vs inf with a larger unit size gives them the edge.

@@joeb1955 No they do not from my testing and experience with that matchup, and given full chevrons to both. Thats just not even close anymore.

@@jonathangwahlstedt ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cDtG3tqxd5o.html This test has already been done.

@@joeb1955 Not when you test like Zerk did, 5 against 5, chosen kills MP on the charge, and SM don't have the HP

@@AloysNeverood Swordmasters beat Chosen GW more often than they lose, they can lose, but Swordmasters win slightly more often

Why xd

Same argument for Greatswords or Elf Wardens, etc. He said it himself, the ones that did the best are the damage dealers of their army rosters. Keepers of the Flame surprised me with how well they did. I imagined them to simply be the anvil that you hammer Silver Helms against.

@@thesuperginge1348 kotf are deathdealers, they mow down large so well... but yeah - they are the anvil. fix it with keepers, murder it with sisters is my general approach to elite enemy units.

It doesn't really matter what the point of their faction is, the fact is that they are way overpriced for their usefulness. So either they need a buff, or they need to reduce their price for multiplayer purposes. Otherwise it's just a waste of money.

They are not fantastic. I'd rather say that they are pretty useless (as well as their non-RoR variant). There are just too little applications, when you should use these over zombo-halberds. I won't say _never_ bc who knows. Still, for me personally it is quite close to that.

Thanks for the feedback. I did wonder if it was too long to be entertaining for this long, so that's helpful.

this

Exactly this. It was wrong to force defenders to charge.

Standardised tests like this will always have a degree of inaccuracies such as this. In order to get orderly results via consistent testing methods, certain competitors will always lose out due to being used in an incorrect context or having their advantages nullified. Still an interesting test, but the results must never be taken at face value and called absolute.

to be fair its a wonder they a top tier in this if you consider they had to charge and are not made to fight infantry which says a lot

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We be gathering a wwaaaggh in dis comment thread. Few more then I can finally tick off: start Waagh on RU-vid

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non ROR units belongs to the Swordmasters. I also think he did this with units usable in multiplayer, and the special greatsword unit is a campaign only unit.

@@joeb1955 Chosen beat swordmasters mate.

@@jonathangwahlstedt I replied to another comment of yours with a link to a video similar to this. That test has been done already. Swordmasters win more often than they lose, in a very close fight mind you, but they still win.

@@jonathangwahlstedt swordmasters beat chosen if they keep there martial prowess

@@jonathangwahlstedt no they don't

Interesting point.

Yeah chosen with great weapons are number 2 with crimson killer's at rank one in my tests

Should have just done this without RoR

Ranks should probably be added to cost equalise as much as possible. How would ranked up Greatswords do? We know they suck but they are cheap.

How should empire and dwarf joins?

@@Crysalix4225 & empire monster is... a tank?

only downside: surely the sisters are going to whup every other ranged unit? hell, they can 1v1 some artillery.

@@sjs9698 waywatchers. Don't know how there called the wood elf unit

@@sjs9698 yeah the empire will be the tank!

Greatswordsmen need more calcium

Grave Guard have a higher bonus vs infantry and better ap i believe

One thing that has always bugged me is certain units have the same or near same amount of armor as Greatswords when they shouldnt. GG being one of the offenders. That was a key element of the GS was they are special hand picked soldiers who never take a backward step against the foe and are armed with dwarf forged plate and blades. The best of the best with the best equipment. On par with Chaos Warrior and Gromril armor. Orks, undead, elves... best they could do was heavy armor a whole grade below.

@@r.j.macready Most Empire units I feel are underwhelming at best. You really have to mix them all together pretty well to get a passable army. They are well rounded but none really stand out for being amazing.

Which is why the Empire is my favorite faction. You can't just send an unsupported unit and expect it to win. You always have to use combined arms. This is also how they played in the tabletop.

WARRIORS of Chaos :p

A Chosen RoR is like the Chosen of the Chosen

@@KorsAir1987 They will likely be 4 Chosen RoRs, one for each Chaos God.

@@mattheww.6232 How would CA even handle making Chosen of Slaanesh? It's not like you can just slap tits on everything and call it a day.

Alessandra Gonzales I mean they could, but they would need to add some other things as well

We have those m8. Aspiring Champions.

Nope. Cuz RoR units are nowhere near as good as standard units at full xp... with a few exceptions. Should have just excluded RoR units since they are so wonky.

*then uses the iron breakers and there charges or as a imperial player uses hand gunners and other shits to destroy them before they even get close.* nope.

@@TheManofthecross Yeah ok, but that wasn't the question. :)

Vincent Celeste this is a melee comparison, ofc artillery and range will beat them before they even get close, how dense must one be to even say things like that on a pure melee comparison video...

@@mooncow1072 maybe you for trying to insult people for being dense.

@Adam Mueller only physical death can silence me fool anything short of that I will keep going with the typing and more.

Question is, do you allow monsterous cav? If not, I don't think reiksguard will do as well as a lot of others. If so, do you go back and retest infantry with monsterous infantry?

@@Buffalo9975 I think so, they're still cavalry for all intents and purposes it's only really the label which is different.

@@gunesturkmen true, those factions will have to be omitted I suppose.

kind of the same with the Keepers of the Flame, that they got so high in an infantry brawl while also being a terrifying presence for any large unit on the battlefield does say a lot too

Because in a vacuum, they aren't good vs infantry. This is a vacuum test. On their roster, they are designed to put the brakes on anything that is too big or too fast to be mowed down by ranged units before reaching their lines, which they do perfectly.

Aye, I've seen Swordmasters beat Chosen GW as well. Don't know if it is consistent, but they can. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't get a health buff, but a leadership buff of +5.

@@warhammerchaosgod swordmasters phoenix guard executioners and black guard all got +4 hp per model "+300 hp total" 2 patches ago as a buff intention was to make elite elf infantry slightly less fragile to artilery

chosen GW beats swordmasters like 7 out of 10 times. swordmasters used to be better but chosens got buff too. From that moment chosens wins most of the time

well no since chevrons cost gold to add

@@samarkand1585 But that gold cost is priced into every ROR unit anyway... I think it would've been better to just give every vanilla unit three gold chevrons (and include that when weighing their relative costs), otherwise for a lot of these match-ups, it's just a confirmation that chevrons make units better.

@@caret_shell well said!

@@caret_shell A rank 9 Chosen GW costs almost 1950 gold. Best unit strength wise or not, nobody would ever use a rank 9 chosen GW in multiplayer. Rank isn't always priced into the RoR unit, if you take a regular chaos warrior at rank 9 and the mirror guard (RoR chaos warrior), the regular chaos warrior is over 100 gold more expensive.

@@joeb1955 Huh, good to know. I had assumed that every ROR unit was the base unit at rank 9, plus potential bonuses and powers and other stat adjustments, and that the cost would be commensurate with that. Nonetheless, I don't find much of interest in pitting vanilla greatswords against other factions' ROR best of the best. Players might not buy rank 9 melee units in multiplayer, but they also wouldn't buy ROR halberd depth guards to use as front line fodder, and they were here anyway.

he said that, without using their ammo, they lost to the hammerers ror

*zombie deckhand mob looks over* hey baby

Yes!!! I couldn't agree more!!

@@dac314 I personally would be rooting for saurus warriors.

@@TheSpencer1000 You could also go for master necromancer+skeleton warriors. That's a extremely cheap (in the campaign) and still effective army, especially when it's not countered.

Not included because you can't normally use them in multiplayer.

Also, phoenix guard perform better than their ROR unit for some reason. Every test Ive run the regular Phoenix Guard at rank 9 outperforms the Keepers of the Flame.

check out wyvern and dahv plays they both have done that before

Tactics are about getting the best out of your units and out of a situation. Knowing how your units handle a situation without using any tactics is a great thing. You know now if you can leave your infantry in the fight, or how urgent it is to help them before they unevitably fail.

@@TeteBruleeFR Not really true. He was running units with Expert Charge Defence headlong into charge bonus masters instead of bracing them, and completely disregarding one of the strongest melee units in the game because he didn't know how to stop them from using their charge disruption (Ironbreakers). He also gave regular units 0 ranks while the RoR all start with max ranks. That's not really "no tactics", that's plain bad tactics and arbitrary handicapping.

@@carlchristianlindalen9311 I agree, there is a lot of room to improve the fairness of thoses duels... Keeper of the flames should have remain standing in the matchup where their charge bonus is lower than the attacking unit's (so most of them really)... And some units are cruelly missing, like the sword masters who should have still easely make up to the top 10 of the bracket. Also, I m pretty sure that even tho the council gards lost the the pack, they would have won a fair bit of matchup the plague pack lost... There is also an argument to make all non ROR gold3 chevron to make the fight more fair...