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Hey Craig.. from past experience with GM, Ford, and other EFI systems, I've always found that the TPS needs to have a certain amount of 'preload' on the rheostat in order to work properly from idle to WOT. On GM, back when the TPS was actually somewhat adjustable, you could read the voltage off the third leg, and it was usually set around .52 vdc (on a 5 vdc scale, with 5 vdc being WOT). If the TPS is all the way relaxed (0.00 vdc), the computer doesn't have a reference voltage to determine idle speed, and the timing, and the idle air control (IAC) will be all over the place. That is at least part of the reason the idle dropped down when you turned the TPS with a screwdriver! Hope this helps.😉
@The_Bearded_Mechanic Hey Craig, that idle building up sounds similar to a problem I had lately. Made me nuts... no air leak anywhere. Solution was, that the exaust-valve had no play at all and didn't close properly when the engine was warm. When starting up, everything went normal, due to the valve beeing cold. After a few minutes the proplem appears. You WILL make this run! Greetings from Germany
32:20 could the weak fuel pump when wired correctly be caused by only getting 12v at low amperage by the signal wire and NOT direct power from the battery? I had that issue once before when building my cnc machine. Not enough amps to the laser, it was drawing ALL the electricity through the PWM signal from the computer. Oh, and it fried that circuit on my breakout board. My laser had 2 power sources: 12V 3A AND PWM from the computer. That's an issue with controlling ground not source. When you turn off or on ground, that means you cut off all source where you want to have 2 sources: 1 with enough amperage to power the motor correctly and 1 low amperage to tell a relay to go on and or off.
No, on the TV shows. We're watching on RU-vid for a reason. More detail and no manufactured drama. All the RU-vidrs that got TV shows end up with a sub-par product.
The fact that this guy A - actually mapped out a diagram when he designed the system, and B - still had the file to give you 9 years later, just shows the level of professionalism from this guy.
I've been rewiring/designing wiring harnesses for forty-plus years now. They have been mostly custom one-offs on almost anything you care to name. I always give the owner a copy of the diagram and I keep at least one copy myself. On the shelf behind me is an A4 binder with hand-drawn custom wiring diagrams as far back as 1985; from about 1992 I started doing them electronically but I still have copies of those too. I don't do it professionally but I keep everything I ever do - just in case!
I took a sip of beer every time you said, 'this wiring harness was made specifically for this bike', got drunk and fell asleep before the end of the video.
I remember my dad, a lifelong mechanic, constantly complaining that OCC were bad at making bikes. He'd often say similar things like how it would be hard to fix them, etc. One complaint I remember vividly was they always painted the parts before making sure they all fit together, thus making even more work when they inevitable had to change something and then repaint the whole thing
I never saw OCC as trying to make a real bike. They just bashed what they thought was looking cool together and didn't care about it actually working or being safe. The safety was the least important thing to them. Now I remember that there were some other show where they took someone's car, rebuilt it and refinished it in a few days. That was pretty similar, though sometimes they did surprise me by doing quality work. I have wondered about those more questionable builds they did. Just how long did it take before they fell apart, and were they worth trying to save after that? I also might be confusing a couple of different series. I remember one episode when they built a truck for Stallone, modeled after a truck in one of his 90's movies. In another episode they rebuilt a really old Porsche really well, making it look like new. It belonged to an older gentleman who had been "rebuilding it" for a couple of decades but now had been diagnosed with cancer and really never would have been able to put it all together again. Like I said I'm not sure they were even in the same series. Still wonder if the quality of their work was any good.
@@pauls5745why would he care. They made tons of money and elevated their business profile. They only benefited from the made for tv motorcycle fascination
OCC bikes were show pieces at best. They were never meant for serious riders. It was fun watching them design and build the stuff, but riding one never crossed my mind. The Geico build looks like the most uncomfortable motorcycle ever built in history. It's shocking that they lost everything....LOL
Amongst the many ludicrous things wrong with this bike, I love the "air cleaner" the most. It cleans the air outside of the bike by sucking in dust, debris, small birds and wayward toddlers and putting them safely into the engine. Great design!!
From Germany. The error is quite simple. The fuel pressure jumps back and forth, but is not regulated. However, this is necessary depending on the speed and pressure from the compressor if you do not have a lambda sensor. As there is no lambda sensor installed, you have to install a fuel pressure regulator behind the pump and connect the sensor line between the cylinder and the compressor. The fuel pressure rises and falls with the pressure from the compressor. The injection nozzles then inject more or less fuel at the same cycle time (!) because the fuel pressure rises with the compressor pressure. This is technology from the 1960s and 70s.
ya thats what was confusing me. the fuel pump SHOULD run all the time and have a constant fuel pressure. idk how ANY fuel injected motor would run right without regulated consistent fuel pressure.
Hard to imagine it ever ran right without some kind of regulation. I wonder if whoever worked on it last had no understanding how EFI works and just plumbed it like you would for a very crude carb setup. Even some carb setups need regulation if you update anything above factory, and this bike is custom from front to back. It's possible the output pressure from the pump is matched to the EFI requirements like some factory setups are I suppose. That would seem unlikely with all the forced induction variables, but not impossible. I guess we're going to find out as this project progresses.
I see lots of diagnostic lessons were learned. This is why after 17 years in automotive fixing all makes from 1920s-2020s, I still learn something every single day! Great job!
Mad props to Stephen for helping on this so much when in reality he didn't have to especially the way customer service is now but he has been helping in anyway possible shows a lot about him the company and the pride in the products and work he does!!
What do you mean "the way customer service is now"? Unless you are dealing with huge corporations, businesses now know we have so many options and they compete on service. I always try to use smaller companies when possible and 90% of the time have great success with customer service when I need it.
12:11 smoke machine. Seriously useful tool in any ICE shop. There's even some, specifically made for being piped through and into motors. Useful for exhaust leaks, useful for valve issues, intake leaks, fuel leaks (yeah, that too) and more. For how little they occupy and bite your wallet, not having one is a disservice. I'd get one that comes with a plate kit (meant to be sealed against the face of an intake), hoses and various fittings.
Anyone who rides knew that the bikes were for show. They're nice looking bikes but they had 1.5 to 2.5 gallon fuel tanks, stiff or no suspension, and bars set in the most uncomfortable positions. They were building bar hopper bikes at the most.
hahaha.. even better. a series where each member of the occ crew has to pick one of their show bikes and roadtrip them across country, fixing all the screw ups along the way. granted, it might take the majority of the first season just to get the bikes going well enough to leave the city they have to start in.. LOL
yep ditch the super charger spinning belts of death by your face and remove crazy brackets, match yellow paint nice and put turbo down low on it now you have clean, safe power problem solved
As a promotional piece, it was not meant to be practical. It was supposed to insane and over the top, and they certainly accomplished that. It didn’t even need to run to accomplish their goal, if that tells you anything.
He said he pulled all the power out of the tune to prevent anyone from doing something unsafe. The plan was to add the performance tune back but he never heard back.
@@legion7478 Oh wow, you actually bought one? So I take it you base your opinion on first hand experience or are you just a know it all who is ticked off that your mommy won't let have a motorcycle?
I cannot even imagine someone saying with excitement "this build was 'managed' by Paul Sr.!" and thinking this is NOT what you'd be dealing with. lol. Good on everyone involved for taking this project on.
Huge credit and thank-you Craig and crew! Big thanks to that original tech guy who put it together originally for his patience too. Enjoyed your excitement and felt your frustrations! 😊
There was the proposal here for a follow-up series, to try to fix all these OCC crapheaps. I'd call it, "Fix or Flame?" where you decide whether a thing is fixable or should be ritually destroyed. In the case of this ugly heap, independent of its problems, the outcome is too obvious to warrant an episode.
The ground signal coming from the ECU is to trigger the relay. Fuel pump goes to ground, power wire for fuel pump goes to relay 87, relay 86 and 30 go to fused 12v (heavy gauge wire enough to run a fuel pump), and the 85 pin goes to your ECU. Also I can guarantee that fuel pump running all the time is not your issue. You can run a fuel pump straight to the battery and it’s not going to affect how the tune works. Fuel pumps aren’t progressive or throttled in anyway, they just run. I bet you have an e85 tune in that ECU so it’s adding too much fuel. To find the air leak just spray around the sealed surfaces with carburetor cleaner and see when it bogs down. It’s probably not even that though, I bet it’s bouncing between timing in the tune. I think that bike just needs a new tune and it will be fine. I’d do a compression test to be sure but it should be good to go.
I came to the comments to say exactly this. I’m surprised they didn’t burn out the ground trace in the ECU by running a fuel pump ground through the ECU. Also surprised they didn’t chuck an air/fuel sensor on the bike and pull all the excess fuel out of the idle as a start of it’s got a e85 tune in it. I guess there is a possibility the injectors are way too big for a pump gas tune.
I was always amazed at how the OCC crew ran into the same problems show after show after show... I learn from my mistakes and strive not to repeat them.
They built em to look pretty in a lobby and maybe rolled on stage and revved up at a corporate get together. Stuck together well enough to be a giant billboard
@@michi_danksta @screwhead4202 @slowstang88 @charliepatterson9321 I will never forget Mr. Martinez from the 7th ad 8th grade, he cut off his thumb and ring finger on his left hand. His wife was so damn hot, we never figured out how he landed her. We were young...
The idle air bypass has been on my mind the entire video. Not sure how that should be working on the supercharger, but if it's downstream of the pressure right now it's causing issues.
and wouldnt you just check it by spraying carb cleaner around all the joints that might be leaking? Listening for changes to the idle while you do it. thats how we do it with cars. I am no motorcycle expert, but it was a little frustrating to see so much speculation, when you can actually check these things pretty directly. The idle speed is usually controlled by that idle air bypass, and if you are idling at 2600 that is not working as you said. Fix the easiest problem first, work on the map second. Hell i would disable the whole idle air bypass system and just use minimum air at the throttle blades to keep it simple until its all sorted. The TPS thing seemed kinda silly too. the program was up on the computer, they could see what the TPS was saying. If it wasnt reading zero, the wiring harness might be complicated but the TPS is 3 wires usually, and you can follow those into the cpu. That needs to be sorted before you do anything else. It just didnt seem like they were having intermittent problems, or unreproducible problems. Those are the ones that drive you insane. The problems seemed very straightforward and fixable. But its hard to tell from a just the video thats meant to be entertaining, and thats fair, i get they need to make interesting content.
This guy would need to buy a clue to get one. He is checking for vacuum leaks on the output side of the blower. What the... even if it wasn't making boost it would have sufficient pressure on that side not to be an issue. Clearly the VACUUM leak is on the inlet side of the blower. And why did he need to be told to check for a vacuum leak? Anyone that has ever experienced a vacuum leak knows that it idles high, why wasn't this a first step before anything else was looked at? Then there was the whole look at the engine change when I turn the TPS. Well duh, you are altering timing you are altering the amount of fuel being delivered, even if you don't move the throttle blade it is going to alter the revs. Where is the spray bottle to detect the vacuum leak. Again any mechanic that has ever fixed a vacuum leak starts with spraying around the suspected area to see if the revs alter as the water plugs the leak. He hasn't even looked at the most obvious place the vacuum leak is going to be. The TPS is connected to a shaft that goes through the throttle body. There is going to be a bearing in there. Good chance it is sucking air through those bearings. They probably don't have seals on them, or the clearances are too big.
Man, what a challenge. I had a similar headache back in the day with my Yamaha RZ350. For weeks I tore it down, built it up, tore it down, built it up and then one day through so much online searching (this is back in early 2000 when info on the web was minimal btw) I seen a guy mention he encountered a similar thing to me and suggested talking to this old warhorse in California who had been a mechanic working on racing these bike since day one. I called him, he flat out said "I know what it is". Just like that. He said "send me the brain box and x dollars and I will fix your problem". So, sent him the little black box (a factory sealed unit) and got it back a few weeks later and get this... he put a half inch dowel across it and held in place by two pipe clamps. This added pressure from the dowel across the unit on a specific area. That was the fix. I plugged it in and ran that bike for years until I sold it. Jenky fix? You bet. Sure, he could have told me over the phone what to do... I was a bit annoyed by that. But... I got to enjoy my ride finally. Electrical issues on bikes can drive you mad.
You didn't pay him for his time or some elegant solution. You paid him for his experience, knowing what the problem was, and the fix. Maybe the fix was 'jenky' but . . . it worked and that was enough.
You have many tenacity units. More than most. Love watching your methodical approch to the repairs. Im learning how to swear less and enjoy the process of figuring out problems by watching this channel. Thank you sir.
This show has a really good value because it shows the reward for persistence and it also shows what people go through to bring something from prototype level to actual manufacturing mass production level... 9 times out of 10 the first time something is tried out a whole bunch of problems show themselves and that's why you have revisions and improvements...
I don’t think anyone believed the bikes OC was making were great. The fun of the show was mostly in the relationships of the people on the show and just seeing what crazy idea they would come up with. It was more art than function and it was a fun show while it lasted.
Craig, this series has aged you. You started out looking like ....well you. At the end of the vlog, you look like Heston in the Ten Commandments movie, after he came back from the mountain!
I don't think they should be destroyed, but at the same time, i can't take anyone saying they're functional bikes on, without laughing a bit. I really liked the early OCC bikes, that were slightly more traditional... but the later stuff went off the deep end for views and ... that's what ducked them. They weren't a business for business, but rather a business for views on Discovery. Which is a mistake you wouldn't think people with previous businesses like they had, would make. Business is business, views are views, popularity and fame are separate as well. You don't mix them, only Jason Statham is Jason Statham.
Having no experience working on one, I was given a 24 year old YZ125 that had been sitting for at least a decade. It had no compression and a multitude of other little issues all over the bike. I tore it down over a few weekends. I rebuilt the carb, honed the cylinder, put in a new piston and rebuilt a lot of other smaller things on the bike. It’s now running exceptionally well and I’ve taken it out for a few rides at this point. Thanks for being an inspiration!
I had to deal with an interment left turn signal problem on a car for years. When I tried to fix it, no problems. Then get back on the road and no turn signal about 15% of the time. I never did get it fixed before the transmission went out. Now that 15 year old car is the junkyard's problem.
I'm kind of surprised he didn't even use the old "spray brake clean around fittings to see if idle speed picks up" trick. Not to mention that TPS needs to be calibrated. Dude seemed a bit out of his depth.
Worked on Mercedes Benz for 7 yrs as a dealer tech, factory trained. One electrical problem,that wasn't " run of the mill", ( not many are) usually wore me out way more than any physical work on the cars.
Not a mechanic - just someone that occasionally fixed stuff (alternator replacement, stereo stuff, clutch replacement, etc.) and the electrical stuff always yeeted my patience out of the solar system.
@@michaelm.1947 The word " machanic" can be pretty broad and inclusive. Plenty of run of the mill mechanics , who taught me stuff. Some days on some things, I am super duper! Other days, Mr Dud!
Watched it through to the end. Looking forward to seeing the man who gave you all that help over the phone. A class act! And yet,...another good one here. Cheers! 👍
Happy Birthday Craig! 🎉 When it comes to vacuum leaks, trick I use is; start it, take a UNLIT propane torch, pass it along hoses, connections etc, if the motor revs up, you've found your leak.
Craig you had a whole lotta patience to try to figure this one out. I love every second of it 😂. I still don't own a bike yet but I love watching you fix and ride them 😎.
My hats off to you for trying so hard to get this expensive boat anchor running right. Me personally I would have quit after about the first hour and just stripped everything off of it that actually does work and put it all on a frame that makes sense and been happy just to have a running bike. This really speaks volumes about OCC and their fan boys who say they build awesome stuff. Personally I've only seen nightmares and garbage come out of the OCC shop.
Or just install a newer more updated EFI system that is easier to tune and then you would know what you are working with,he would have less time in the bike by now for sure
One must first realize that entertainment was the goal of the TV show. Trying to convert that goal into a real motorcycle is just a fool's errand , and you wind up transferring the same fictional goal, entertainment, into a RU-vid video , unless you rebuild the entire deal. A lot more hammer adjustment than machinist's measurements were featured on that show.
For what I can see there is a fuel pressure regulator on the pump that has a sensor, it could possibly be clogged from the bad fuel it had making it not function properly or give inaccurate readings, but if it was the case you would be able to tell from the readings, in theory the pump should stop when desired pressure is reached via signal from the pressure regulator, I would pressure test the rail on the pump to trigger the regulator and see if it's actuating like on/off switch like it should from my theory... Idk what you did but glad that eventually it worked, this is the thing about custom bikes, you don't get to mash things together and hope everything works as intended, you really have to test things several times and do several tests and when there is several parties involved the harder it gets, glad that we get to see part of the struggle of what you guys go through, thanks for the content really appreciate!
The Tuttles were by season 2 and 3 for sure basically building corporate showpieces. They didn’t have to do much more then sit in a corporate HQ lobby or move more then a few hundred feet onto a stage. It’s all for not these days as they’re finding OCC custom bikes sitting abandoned in company warehouses or left in storage areas after the original company who commissioned it got bought out or it didn’t look “ environmentally conscious “ to have a now worthless 6 figure custom motorcycle in your lobby
I don't have much interest with bikes, but I love watching engineering and mechanical videos. This was an amazing watch, so well made and explained, can't wait to watch more!
I did the fabrication on this bike. the amount of hands that got into that bike after it left occ is the real problem that caused all that. Its awesome you were able to iron it out! Steve Thompson was super impressive to work with
I suspect the Tuttles started to outsource more of the work they usually did in house when they realized they had a brand with OCC. The empty giant OCC building in New York is proof that they grew too fast and didn’t manage their business better
@@matthewcaughey8898 I happened to drive by that building once. I thought it would be in an iconic location but it's like the corner of a shopping plaza.
We used to use starting fluid to check for air leaks. Spray it on and listen for a change in the engine note. Don't suppose it was the safest thing but it worked.
We always check for air leaks with a can of break cleaner. Spray "around" the lines till you hear the engine boost, then search the vac lines around where you where spraying when the boost engaged.
