Who wins? 300 Vikings vs 300 Phoenix  

No bro, es que Los Libertadores son el equivalente a las Valkirias del Brood War SC1, poseen misiles aoe damage

​@@cciagumon0078 he is referring about the AoE missile upgrades from the Armory in the Wings of Liberty campaign.

And the extra +2 range lol. So busted

Or Goliaths from the first craft extra range.

I was expecting the AoE missiles and when I noticed they didn't have them, I knew the phoenix's would win.

1 v 1 vikings win, but phoenix shoot faster so in large numbers take out units quicker. speed, area of effect and splash damage work their magic in high enough numbers.

Vikings are good vs armored air. Phoenix I think is considered light

@@kingpet weird take since phoenixes are better vs light units wich vikings arent

Neither Viking nor Phoenix deal splash damage. I think this outcome would be the same even with less number of units.

​@@AdmiralBison they lose a a 1v1 too. Even without range for phoenix. They cost less gas though, and are just straight up better against flyers cuz 9 range is good, 7 isnt.

Go go go! Rock And Roll! You wanna peace of me boy?

RIP Blizzard...all those fun LAN parties in 2000.

same, sometimes when i write i put on the old starcraft music just chill with and get the thoughts bouncing

Me 2. Look up here on RU-vid the Battlecake band's covers of the Broodwar Terran theme. Those kids nailed it!

please recalculate... its 7500 so thats still more but a lot less than you wrote lol. the Phoenixes cost a third of the Gas more and same mineral cost so while its understandable they beat the vikings pound for pound with 72 remaining I'd say it depends on how scarce Gas is at the time (if the value of the gas is much higher than the minerals in the game or if there are essentially unlimited bases with gas mining lol), if both have a lot of gas the trade is much better for the phoenixes as overall resources lost are higher for the vikings but if on a low economy das mining in particular is limited due to less bases this may even be a pyrrhic victory for them. Same holds true for smaller numbers ofc

@@arvedpittner9782 Yep, you're right, that's a brain fart right there from me, fixed it. That said, I think there's very few situations in which toss spends less gas in general - mostly centering around zealot runbys. Toss tends to be quite high in gas expenditure otherwise.

@@mckendrick7672 Yeah absolutely agree! Not to mention that Terran will also not fight "mass phoenix" with mass viking but just build a bunch of marines most of the time... Has to be a very specific scenario were Phoenixes and Vikings battle for "air superiority" in significant numbers for more than one engagement (because both players would likely switch into ground to air quickly)

It's not like equal cost means anything, if the unit would be hard countered. It's this case it is rather surprising as the phoenix is not designed to counter armored units. But then again, the viking is not designed to counter light units either.

You are not paying the extra gas for the fighting power. You are paying for the extreme mobility and harras potential. Vikings are terrible at most combat which is balanced by the fact that terran already got decent basic air defence with marines and thors.

And it has a maaaassive range advantage which isn't really utilised here in the video

​@@graog123aaaaand they can be produced two at a time. All very extremely balanced obviously /sarcastic

25/25 isnt a lot, its like the least amount of difference it can get.

@@einerheit5871 would you rather have 5 of something or 4 of something?

@@atalkingcat73 both of you seem to ignore that the stated mineral cost for both units is exactly the SAME? the rate of cost is NOT "4:5" its 1/3 more gas and same minerals (cost for viking 150/75 and for phoenix 150/100) by pure resources that would mean for every 6 phoenixes you get another viking and looking at this battle the phoenixes would probably win 6v7. so it depends on the state of the game wether or not this trade is fine, in a late game pure phoenixes would likely trade better because you can mine the entire map worth of gas geysers and vikings much higher losses drain minerals more quickly than the phoenix losses drain the gas, but in the early game it may be closer to even. Anyway the point is completely moot, because for this amount of phoenixes Protoss can just built stalkers and templar to kill it from the ground and with storm while terran will kill "mass phoenix" with marines obviously

Cheaper and they can land to become ground units. They sacrifice their pure anti-air role for more versatility. Outcome makes perfect sense.

@@kibbles5724 Well Phoenixes also have SOME anti ground capapbillity with the lifts but yeah I also think Vikings are simply more versatile.

they don't have bullets

Landed Vikings are actually pretty decent on the ground and do in fact smack Stalkers. They also 2 shot probes and do bonus to T and P buildings.

@TheMuffinman191 Yea they are very good vs T and P ground mech units. I wonder why the game hates armored units so much lol. Everything does bonus damage to armored or mechanical or both.

Prior to vikings receiving the 10 HP buff in LotV, they used to lose to corruptors 1v1. Now, they beat them, though it only takes 1 more attack to kill them.

i have a feeling that the largest benefit phoenix has is the smaller collision hitbox so they stack easier/quicker than the vikings allowing them to apply damage quicker removing more enemy dps.

Wrong: a showcasing of both units shows that the Pheonix wins in a 1v1 by a decently large margin. So it's 300x 1v1 losses against the Vikings, and projectile overkill would not have changed the results at all.

@@joshuakim5240 mb

@@joshuakim5240 mb

@@joshuakim5240 oh shi mb cuh

In situation, viking can hit and run a little

lanchester square law in full effect. small advantage at the start snowballs really hard.

that makes no sense, phoenix necessarily have fewer hit points because they have shields, it isn't good for the reason you stated, shields also have 0 armor without upgrades.

Only in simulator that people use liberator for anti air

There are no viking in sc1

I think you mean Valkyries from brood war. those fucked shit up

​@@NhatAnhPhamDrnah libs are used for splash at a high level sometimes, but it is pretty neashe

@@NhatAnhPhamDr Seen in pro/tournaments once in awhile, to kill observers/overseers/dropalords if there is no other way. They even saved the day sometimes.

The phoenix doesnt win in a 1v1 or 10v10 for that matter, but the higher the number the better they become against vikings, since they shoot faster, meaning they switch to a new target quicker.

and if the terran can mikro the colossi are dead anyways

@@felixtpholm9377 So how many vikings would you realistically need to cover your Colossi? Protoss players keep going for Tempests, which are more fragile than soap bubbles.

because fights don't happen this way. you rarely find vikings fighting at the front let alone gunning it mano-a-mano with air.

@@KimmyR3 But toss players usually cede the air entirely, and fight from the ground. Yet the vikings still get through the stalkers and archons to blast the expensive units.

But vikings are not light units

​@@Howwasyourdaysir but Fenix is better than a phoenix

Fenix actually has bonus to armored units.

​@@mariusmihai1292no, no has

Phoenix also have the advantage of being able to shoot while moving and also being quite fast. So I think a Phoenix can still close the distance and the viking can't really kite it back the way it can do vs slower air units like capital ships.

@@chloesmith4065unfortunately if you want to chase vikings, stimmed marines, cyclones, mines, and EMP all make short work of phoenix

Closer as in the Libs will wipe the floor against Phoenix?

@tigera6 if they spread out like this video it won't be that one sided

@@kingpet They were pretty clumped up in this video, I am pretty sure 200 Libs would wipe 300 Phoenix out if they set up like this.

@@kingpet They arent that spread out in the video, the Libs splash damage will destroy them. Its just hard to not clump air unit in SC2.

Pffft, who told you that? 😂

Nope

Vikings are armoured units, though they have 0 armour.

Bonus damage against what? Wikings aren't light.

And phoenixes are supposed to utilize their superior speed and the ability to hit on the move. Both had unutilized strengths here.

Not at all, even with the upgrade it's still 7 range vs 9 range.

How are phoenixes gonna kite vikings? they have lower range.

Corruptor wins without micro, but Phoenixs with range upgrade can kite them to dead.

Overkill as they fire in groups

The might win against Broodlords, Oracles and Banshees

@@der_echsecuter might win :D Good one!

Maybe because if they accidentally hit the LAND button... 🤣

Viking beat BCs in mass, probably.

No? Edit: they might have an upgrade in campaign or coop, but not in standard

The only vikings that deal splash are Deimos Vikings , only useable in coop as han and horner afaik

The only ways for vikings to get splash is an upgrade in campaign and coop raynor. Some variants might have some.

An army that can only attack other air units has more upgrades and cost significantly more gas should win in a strait up fight…. Terran is the easiest race to play on both the micro and macro front. Protoss and Zerg swap out depending on army comp but on average Zerg are the hardest to play.

They won, though????

@@rozmarinideas5340 they won... With heavy loses... The scout was an all round better unit than the Phoenix

The scout is simply too expensive with its anti ground pea shooter, its just a slightly better wrath, with the trade off of losing the niche but useful pick up ability from ohoenis, and also attacking while moving. The scout's role is also taken by... Void ray, why would you use scout when you have void ray?

@@davenclawthehobbit2842 so you're telling me that the phoenix is too weak because it didn't win hard enough?

@@rozmarinideas5340 I am saying that the Phoenix is a downgrade at a time things should, logically, be improving for war.. the scout is stronger all around and the Phoenix is not worth creating to begin with

It it was so easy, every bronze league hero would get there. Alas, they don't.