Her smile is so inviting and deadly, the power implicated in the sinister curve of her lips is astonishing. I absolutely love this scene, for her presence in it. Incredible.
@@attiepollard7847 not a chance the obsidian order and tal shirar fleet only had about 40 ships that’s why the dominion with 150 ships easily beaten them the fact that why was secret is the reason why they the dominion wanted rid it was the skills they beat best off both
@@bradleywilson5641 but even before the Dominion threat became a major issue could they have used that secret location to build up ships to challenge the federation?
I love that in something as simple as standing there talking, Sisko and Dukat can make you feel the weight of their two empires being at odds. The haggle and the exchanging between them to find what they both want.
You’d be surprised how much diplomacy between world powers is conducted by backroom conversations, late night encrypted phone calls and private dinners. The pomp and ceremony of diplomacy is mostly for show, the real geopolitical haggling is done between individuals.
Spot on comment. This show had so much weight. The writers wrote it to reflect what real opposing military leaders would be like in this situation. That's why it is so engrossing.
And this is one of the reasons why this show is, from all other spin-offs made so far, my favorite. They *_really_* tried to make something different from the already exhausted Star Trek formula.
Gul Dukat is one of the best characters in Star Trek history. He had so much complexity and although he was horrendously evil in every way, Marc Alaimo played him so well you almost wanted to root for him to succeed.
He was a Cardassian. And not the worst of them. He was an enlightened tyrant. Weyun wanted Earth destroyed. Dukat would have spared it. How ambitious are YOU? How would YOU fight wars, manage politics, run an occupation? How would YOU rule an empire with its back to the wall? The answers are all bad.
100% agree.....Sisko was the best captain in my opinion because he could find a way to work with morally ambiguous characters like Quark, Garak, Dukat etc.
It shows the relationship between the two during the early series: they’re not enemies, they’d never admit or agree that they’re friends, but they both have an absolute something for the other which forms a unique bond of trust: *respect*
Scenes like this make me miss the time in Dukat's development when he wasn't a pure monster. Yes, he was a villain, but he had motivations that could be understood and he could be reasoned with. He genuinely cared about his children and at least to some degree about the Cardassians as a whole.
I would love to read whatever information the writers had for Dukat should they have not gone down the route he did but rather the friendly rival and occasional foil for the crew and being more of a Anti-Hero rather than the Villain he ended up being. Granted it worked out beautifully in the end and we did get many great episodes of Dukat not being the bad guy which made his betrayal all the more difficult for the crew to accept. It would just be great to see what his alternate route could have been and who the writers would have used instead had they kept him on the side of Semi-Good.
No. Dukat was always a megalomaniac. This was a man who responsible for a Holocaust on Bajor. He just became more deranged in later seasons because he lost his influence
You know, the Cardassians were pretty polite and reasonable BOTH times rogue federation ships charged off into Cardassia and went on a killing spree. If the situation had been reversed, I reckon starfleet would have flipped their lids.
@@1985slipstream I can't even conceive of a reason as to how the Federation isn't in the wrong the second time but even the build up during the first time turned out to be pretty reasonable since the federation has a strong history of unprovoked strikes. Lets not put aside the fact that the federation launched a raid on Cardassia not even that much later over shaky evidence that turned out to be false. Also, the Cardassians being atleast modestly prepared for war turned out to be the correct (if ineffectual move) when the Klingons also invaded completely unprovokedly.
To be fair, even for political adversaries, the Federation is probably such a massive economic partner that it’s not worth pressing ultimately inconsequential issues too far. Without associating sides, the US and China have geopolitical tensions but can rarely afford to blow things too far out of proportion for economic reasons - at least historically.
Like those times when the Romulus sent a stealth invasion force to occupy Vulcan or the Catdassians tried to reoccupy DS9 after it was under Federation protection? Or the Klingons sent a bird of prey to Genesis and destroyed a Starfleet ship, killing its crew? Or Cardassia was secretly meddling in Bajoran politics? The Federation is hella patient with its neighbors.
That's the reality of geopolitics too, unless you have a total madman in charge of a nation. Most incidents are smoothed over. Turkey shot down a Russian aircraft, China a US plane, Russia and the US have had constant antagonistic screw ups before Russia devolved into Putin's puppet state. War is destructive and unpredictable, no sane leadership wants it. Cardassia is busy oppressing its own people. The Klingons for decades have had to focus inward to prevent rebellions, and the most antagonistic power, the Romulans, seem to work hard to make sure major power wars don't happen, despite the hawkish commanders antagonizing the Enterprise.
When Dukat said the Obsidian Order was forbidden to have military equipment and Korinas smiled - chills ran up and down my spine. Too bad Korinas didn't come back with her own story arch, that was a missed opportunity if you ask me.
The orias system was mentioned where they built up the invasion fleet against the dominion in the episode with tain and the first strike. She likely died
I have watched this episode so many times and its just amazing how good the pacing and the performances are. Tom making a return and bringing that Riker charisma really sells his ability to decieve. For me the standout is Dukat, his eyes and facial gestures are just so intense all throughout the episode, also love his hand movements, really makes you wonder how long his prep time was for each scene.
This is dukat at his best. Smart, capable, willing to negotiate and still very much thinking of his people and his position at the same time. Teleporting space anti-Christ with literal demonic powers after a mental breakdown (and sleeping with wynn, I mean talk about falling to your lowest point) never fit such a well crafted and acted character.
I agree wholeheartedly. He was a villain, but with understandable motivations, very much a (dark) grey character - until they threw out all and all nuance and turned him into evil incarnate. Wasted with very poor writing...
2:22....that smug smile by Korinas. She doesn't give a fuck about Dukat or his so called 'authority'. That's the look of someone with the full protection of the Obsidian Order behind them, whatever happens in this incident. Later on when she casually threatens Dukat that any Cardassian ships under his command will be destroyed if they attempt to enter the Orias system. The Order seems to do whatever it wants, regardless of the fact that in theory, the Central Command is supposed to be the higher authority.
It's a intelligence agency/secret police force that's beholden to no one. Look at section 31, the tal shiar, or changing spy network. Realistically who can oppose them when all are ready and willing to commit genocide at utilizing extreme levels gaslighting and ostracization against there own people.
@@JemHadar422 They're not both equal. Despite the 'Civilian' Detapa Council which has no real authority, the Central Command in practice is the higher authority above the Obsidian Order. The Detapa Council was more for show. It has been established that it had no authority over anyone in the Central Command or the Obsidian Order. It was 'technically' in control only, but in practice - the Central Command was officially the one in charge, but even then the Obsidian Order rarely deferred to its authority, almost doing whatever it wanted. Hence the quip by Dukat earlier in the episode that both the Central Command & the OO largely keep to their own affairs for the most part.
Actually in a computer game called Dominion Wars you rescue Thomas Riker is even voiced by Frankes himself. The mission is Ridiculously hard , it's also a very long mission as you not only have to battle multiple fleets and mobile platforms. It even has the guy that played Admiral Ross. Forgive me I can't remember his name. But wow what a game killer graphics for it's time.
You could have let Gul Dukat finish his sentence before ending the video and cutting to commercial. I own the series, so I remember what Dukat said. He ended his sentence with... "but not Riker; he led the mission".
under cloak the USS DEFIANT is limited to WARP 8 ( MODIFIED WARP SIGNATURE ) because the USS DEFIANT has powerful engines that permeate the cloak STAR TREK : DS9 ep THE SEARCH PART 1
Cardassians did not match the Federation in terms of hardware/tech. They got a boost from the Dominion, but when we first met them, they were several decades behind Starfleet.
@@marks47 Doesn't matter the Cardassians were far above Warp 8 at the beginning of DS9 so catching up to a vessel traveling at Warp 8 under cloak should take a matter of seconds even at Warp 9.
They probably could but ask yourself this: if you’re one of ten ships chasing down the Defiant do you *really* want to be the first one to find her? This has all the signs of a classic “alright, you’re the curious one, after you” situation….
I just realised something. The Orias system is later mentioned by Tain when he does his first strike against the dominion where they built up those ships.
The Defiant and the USS VENGEANCE are the types of ships you want to have on backup. Heavily armed, built for war and breaking all the rules: cloaking devices and all types of armor. A DREADNAUGHT is supposed to be able to make short work of battleships.
Yes, exactly the sort of thing the Terran Empire would love. I really wonder why people like you watch Star Trek at all. You clearly learned absolutely nothing from Roddenberry.
@@NoJusticeNoPeace The Federation can pretend to be better than everyone else as much as it wants to. Nothing changes the fact that the Federation absolutely would build those ships if they got the chance.
Well, we do find out about the Orias system eventually, but I doubt there's anything Dukat could've done about it. Somebody senior would've probably told him to back off.
Dukat should have had those ships surrounded and boarded. He should have pushed home the fact that he had more vessels at his disposal and threaten Korinas that he would destroy those ships if they defied his orders. Thereby wiping the smug look off her face........
@@georgepierson4920 In this instance, Dukat not only had the right but also had the advantage on his side. Korinas would not forced the issue because she was in the wrong and moreover didn't have the tactial edge. If she was foolish enough to challenge Dukat, he could have moped the floor with her........
Worth bearing in mind that three ships had suddenly appeared that shouldn’t exist. What *else* is hiding in that system ready to make your day even more complicated than it already is? When your opponent is that confident they’re either phenomenally good at poker or know something important you don’t…
Could you imagine if they kept Thomas Riker a good guy and just had him assigned to DS9. Frakes would have bern pulling double duty when TNG films were being made. Plus eventually he would be working with Worf and O'Brian again. They could throw in comedy where Worf keeps thinking Thomas Riker is higher ranked then him. But then remember he isn't Commander Riker
Frakes did do double duty. Her acted as Will Riker in The Next Generation series and films, Voyager, Enterprise and also directed episodes across the franchises.
Wasn't the Maquis pilot the same woman who did the medical supplies shuttle theft with Ro in the episode of TNG? If she is, she also played Martok's wife, Sirella.
I get a kick out of this little joke about the political structure of each major empire in Star Trek, the federation finds the cardassian Union's political structure to be too authoritarian and we're giving the impression they expected it to fall at any moment, and we see on several occasions they find the Klingon empire's political structure to be too feudal in nature for long-term growth, well at the same time the Klingon empire finds the federation political structure to be barbaric and can't understand how its function this long And the reply to the question regardless of who it's directed at is; our form of government has function successfully for centuries!
So if the Obsidian Order wasn't supposed to have any ships than how exactly did Dukat expect them to carry out their threat? Drag his ship's into a dark room and beat it out of them?
It’s more like The Obsidian Order can commandeer an existing ship whenever it needs to, it’s the difference between owning something and borrowing something.
The end of this clip Dukat agrees to Sisko’s terms except for Thomas Riker. He alone is to stand trial on Cardassia for his crimes. Sisko gets Dukat to waive capital punishment and T. Riker is given a life sentence. What I often wonder about is that after the Klingon War and the Dominion War, what wound up happening to T. Riker here? Was he killed or did the new Cardassian government/Federation give him a pardon?
Maybe in the choas after the Onlingon invasion the Maquis were able to ge5 him and some others out. Only then to die when the Dominion arrives. Even if he was still in prison i inagine the Dominion doeant have much use for prioaners and had them all shot.
Beaming would have meant a cloaked ship nearby and they weren't supposed to have those either and it would be a wasted resource for the OO, to just show they have that tech.
Kira is a brilliant First Officer, and she’s doing her job and she’s doing it exactly right in this exchange. But with a shit captain, the best first officer in the fleet won’t be able to do shit. She’s a professional and Tom is not professional enough in command to take all of the experience and decisive judgment from those around him that he can get. He should see her as a resource and ally and not an opponent or someone he needs to prove wrong because he doesn’t want what she says to be true. And a good Captain knows when to take their first officer’s advice or not. The scene with Tom and Kira is the opposite scenario of Data in command of the Sutherland as acting captain being assigned there and then working with the existing first officer. Kira and Data would actually have worked incredibly well together if they had met in the field during the dominion war. They are both so professional and adaptable and able to know when a risk has become a necessity or not. They also don’t take any bullshit on the bridge. So many of Star Trek’s best officers never meet, but we get to know them so well we can imagine just how well any one of them would work together. Kira becomes an excellent Captain of DS9, and Data would be an excellent XO to her as well. It goes both ways. Kira becomes a better and better officer throughout DS9 and it’s just so captivating to watch as she adjusts and takes responsibility in an ever-changing and distant climate to what she was used to in her terrorist days. Being in a resistance cell is very different to being in command of order and procedure and government.
Romulans cloned her remains and Cardassian test subjects. Then they used a similar aging process they used on Shinzon. They gave the result to the Order and said "here's a gift, a foreign correspondent."😂
I love that Frankes was able to have such amazing scenes in ds9.. I wish they would of got him out of the cardassian prison like kira said they would. Ds9, tng, voyage were so in sync back then its so sad nothing like that happens now, that slow dozens of episodes getting to know all those characters/actors is just gone now. I hate it.
There is nothing canon. However, we can conjecture that he either died or was captured by the Federation and placed into prison. This is as Chakotay found out from his contacts that nobody was left of the Maquis that didn't fall into these two categories. We also saw on screen how the Jem'Hadar were ordered to hunt down these "small potato" threats that had no real consequence to the newly formed Dominion alliance, yet had to be erradicated simply because they were the equivalent of annoying mosquitos.
@@oldtwinsna8347The Maquis hideouts were training missions for the Jem'Hadar. The Founders found annoyances useful distractions to keep their underlings busy. At that point, they were finding it increasingly advantageous to have Cardassian military share in the casualties until Legate Damar had enough.
It's funny how ppl see development of Bashir, or Kira, or Odo but at the same time sees Dukat as nothing but a villain from the start. But truth is... Sisko did some questionable things as well and only thanks to some damned good luck he didn't fall like Dukat.
How do any operators get around? Any way they can. They might officially get military support when it suits their needs, otherwise they use less conspicuous vehicles to get around and move materials.
Look at Gul Dukat, ever the sociopath, pretending to be a helpful officer and get on Siskos good side. But it's all a scam, it's all a ploy, it's all fake. Everything is all fake with him.
"Doesn't seem very efficient" See this is the side of the writers I hate in this era of Trek. That's not remotely the right thing to say. This actually gets worse going into Voyager and Enterprise. Where our heroes seem to almost reveille in telling other people how backwards they are.
In episodes 3x19 and 3x20 we find out true color what is it in Orias System. And funny thing is that during production of this episode they did not thought out what they going to do with this set up. They even did not know if they going to create two part episodes. In the end, they did great job and still after more then 20 years is still master piece. Shame that modern Trek is all about easter egg crap and its so predictable in many ways.
DS9 could never stand on its own. It was not a very good series. they had to bring in STTNG characters to limp it along. Most of the good episodes were when STTNG characters were the focal point.
