Why “Venom” ISN'T Venom In Spider-Man 2 PS5 (Video Essay) 

for those who are missing the entire point to put it shortly: creating a “new iteration” of a character doesn’t require you to change the core characteristics of said character to create a new story. the more you change the core of the character, the less that character is themselves the one we all know and love, the more they become unrecognizable.

I agree with what you said. The killer difference for me is that the original venom in the comics isn’t necessarily evil. Like you said he just hated Spider-Man, he typically didn’t even want to hurt other people unless they were in the way of him getting to Spider-Man, So much so that in the comics when Peter faked his death and made Venom believe he killed him, Venom literally retired to a remote island peacefully to live out his best life. He had no motivations to “ take over the world “or to create new symbiotes. In fact venom doesn’t even like the other symbiotes in his lineage.

I couldn’t agree with you more. In the first game, you could listen to voice tapes left by Dock Ock and you could tell that he is slowly going insane. But with Harry, he just kinda throws a fit when he gets the symbiote back

The thing is that venom hates peter, but harry not, and the reason harry lets venom do what he wants is because he thinks he's healing the world, because the symbiote make him healthy, so harry wants to share that "gift" for everyone

The best friend villain theme was already explored with Phin in Miles Morales. It would have been more interesting if they had explored a new theme, like how Peter/Spider-Man’s actions can have unforeseen consequences on strangers lives. Like a domino effect that eventually leads to Eddie Brock becoming Venom, all of which he sees as divine intervention. And with Harry dead without the symbiote, Peter would see Venom/Eddie as his own failure and inability to save everyone.

While I don't think they explained it well to anyone who doesn't read the comics, I think Venom acted as he did because of the meteorite, he was following the wishes of Knull, The God of The Symbiotes. That symbol swirly symbol is seen on the head of any symbiote that has been controlled by Knull's will. I think the main issue with your critique, is that you mostly only seem to know what happened in TAS and other tertiary media. Venom has a love/hate relationship with Peter, he's basically a scorned ex lover, who's totally nuts. He talks to Kraven about how he blames him for ruining his bond with Peter in the boss fight at the end. Venom wanted to stay bonded to Peter, and is convinced that if Kraven had not gotten in the way, they would still be together. The symbiote tells Harry that Peter betrayed him, and uses their shared scorn to convince Harry that Peter is his Enemy, meanwhile, both Harry and the Symbiote want to bring peter into the fold of the Hive mind because Harry loves Peter, despite being angry with him, as does the Symbiote. In the comics, it was Peter who taught the symbiote compassion, and that is largely why it loved him so much, and felt so betrayed by him. It took all the wrong steps, but it did what it believed was right by it's host. That's why it defended him from The Hunters and in the comics used his sleeping body as a puppet, fighting crime when he was asleep. The issue is that is lacked the understanding/humanity that peter fought with, and so it went too far and was too brutal with how it handled his villains/street thugs. Klyntar (Symbiotes) don't cause negative feelings, they amplify the ones that are already there. I think if we still get the Venom Solo game after that leak, that we will see Venom's true nature become apparent. Symbiotes are protectors and guardians, when not being corrupted by the influence of a King in Black / Symbiote God. I hope we see Eddie become the new/true Venom, because I think Eddie is such an amazing and flawed character, who doesn't give up on doing the work to better himself, no matter how many times he screws everything up. I want to see more realistically portrayed, deeply flawed people who make bad choices and do the work to be better, I loved those themes in MSM2, easily my favorite aspect of the game.

Yeah initially doesn’t seem like a bad idea to make Harry venom. The hard thing is, Harry almost never can truly hate Peter the same way. Especially through the course of a game where it’s all going to happen very quick. Think he could’ve had good enough motivation if they leaned more into peter just letting him die and felt betrayed instead of the heal the world stuff. Kinda weird. The wings were wild too💀💀

The entire point Venom doesn't hate Peter is because Harry doesn't hate Peter. Even in the video when you talk about how Venom and Eddie are bonded through hatred, Venom and Harry are bonded through "healing" the world. It's not the same person so their motivations are obviously going to be different. I feel like it's unfair to compare the Venoms when it's not even the same person in possession of it. If Venom were to just hate Spider-Man anywhere near Eddie's level it'd disregard the effect the host has on it entirely and just be Eddie with pills.

For me the problem isn't that Eddie Brock didn't turn out to be Venom, for me it's that they didn't develop Venom whatsoever in this game, it just turned out to be a generic villain who wants to take over the world, where Venom should actually be a character that is opposite to Spider-Man, a character that hates the Spider-Man, but in this game it's actually quite the opposite, since Venom wants Peter to join him or something. If anything though, I'd want Kraven as Venom in this game

I was not a fan of the idea of Harry being the host since Eddie is such an important step for Venom. But they had everything to make it work with Harry still being the host. Peter legit abandoned him and left him to die without his only cure and once he finally come back with it, he planned to destroy it. They could have used that to explain why Harry and the symbiote would want to go on a vendetta againts Spider-man.

the I found weird about Venom in ps5 spiderman is..... why did he call himself Venom? Really, Venom always called himself thus because he SPECIFICALLY said he's "poison" to spidey and Peter. He named himself for HIM, Spider-Man. He based his ENTIRE existence thusly to ruining Peters life in every aspect, his purpose is Spider-Man, in pain, hurt. Even his powers are counters to Spidey, his main one being the fact that he was the ONLY villain spidey could NEVER see coming, because he's immune to his spidey sense. He alone was able to get the drop on Spidey, and in some stories and games, he flat out can turn INVISIBLE, meaning Spidey could genuinely NEVER know when or where Venom is lurking, despite how big the guy is. All that said..... what Harry/Symbiote start calling himself Venom for? He isn't "poison to Spidey/Peter, he still thinks he's his best friend, and vice versa, to the point of being obsessed with him. In THAT regard, Venom is true to his character. However, he never declares himself an enemy, thus he cannot be "Venom", honestly I'm not sure the whole "Venom is immune to Spider Sense" thing is even touched on in the game. Dude keeps saying he'll "Heal the world", which...kinda is the opposite of what the traditional purpose of "Venom" is. Even his PURPOSE in the game is...counter to his name. He only ONCE goes after Mary Jane in the game, when he could've instead of making him fight Peter, could've used her as bait or a lure to get peter to join his side. "Look Peter, MJ likes it, join her, join US!" that could've been easy, but that's not the point of this, that's an entirely different tangent. In short: The name Venom for Harry just doesn't feel..... "earned", if that makes sense. Literally it's just: Harry: We.... are.. *Venom* Peter: ....why? Venom: What? Peter: why are you calling yourself 'Venom'? Do you have poison powers? Venom: ..no Peter: oh.... then... why? Venom: ...it sounds cool

This completely changed the way I looked at venom in the insomniac version. I think I was just too blinded by excitement and I didn't realise how the game could've been better. I still enjoyed Spiderman 2 and I will still enjoy it but I'm glad you brought this into light.

I think the real problem is the fact they had to cut so much of the second half of the game. They probably didn’t want everything they were trying to do in this game and save it for something else that’ll be paid for.

THANK YOU for this video. I’ve been screaming this from the rooftops. The one thing I was hoping you’d get into is the aesthetics of Venom. Modern media leans more gooey hulk monster these days instead of Spider-Man’s evil counterpart who shoots webs. I didn’t see any webs shot from insomniacs venom. It’s all tentacle galore with him and Sonys movie venom

I feel like the problem isn’t that Venom doesn’t feel like Venom. I personally liked him in this game and I thought it was pretty cool how he convinced Harry that Peter betrayed him by using his mother’s voice. I think the problem is that they tried to put Kraven and Venom in the same game as “main villains”. Most of the game is centered around Kraven and his story and it kinda pushes Harry and Venom to the side until the last hours or so of the game so we don’t really get any of the buildup towards him. And yes, there is technically some amount of buildup, but not as much as we got with Doctor Octopus in Spider-Man 1.

What people don't seem to realize is that Venom is not the same being as the symbiote. He is the combination of Eddie and the symbiote. And the writers clearly can't understand such a complex concept. Also he was big and buff because Eddie was working out like a madman. Here he is just huge because reasons.

Spiderman The Animated Series was so based with the comic source material accuracies. I wish that they had an extra season to adapt the Life Foundation Symbiotes.

Bro This Venom is more Venom than Tom Hardy's Venom.

I think they should’ve built on the whole thing of Peter being the son Norman always wanted. Show that in the flashbacks and present. Would’ve given Harry the jealousy and hatred of Peter more. They showed Norman calling Peter a son but I think they should’ve built on that earlier. And one of my favorite things about the symbiote is that they’re pretty much like a jealous ex-girlfriend 😂. Peter rejected them and the symbiote cant move on lmao. Wish Insomniac did that with their Venom.

I never had a problem with it being Harry. I feel like the way venom functions, it invites different adaptations of it binding to other characters. I think the execution was just really poor, and i didn't like all the new powers and stuff. The fact that it can just take over a city, ignore fire, and the devil wings just killed me. I pretty much agree with every other thing you said. I liked your proposed alternate motivations for Harry. They were baked right into the cake of Insomniacs own narrative and they chose not to go with it. Swing and a miss

He didn't say that in the comics. You also stopped right before we got to the really good stuff, which is why I guess you think Venom is a villain and think that revenge is the core? While I will be focusing on Eddie, (as the symbiote would have me have to explain Flash, the Agents of the Cosmos and Knull completely) Venom's core is redemption in the comics. Eddie would give up the symbiote and it would end up on Mac who would start a lot stereotypes Venom is known for (like actually eating people), while Eddie would further his redemption arc. At first it was slow becoming Anti-Venom and largely just being a more heroic take on his 90s self, however once Flash got involved and became Agent Venom? He stood up for both the symbiote and Eddie and laid into Peter for him holding a grudge, Peter and Eddie would finally bury the hatchet, while Eddie went full on hero. Then we got Donny's run which the game pulls from but makes everything they use be used opposite from its context like Venom's wings. Like its the climax of Eddie's character development, to the point Eddie becomes worthy of Thor's hammer and becoming Captain Universe but the game just misses the point of the stuff its using. Be it the Agent Venom design, the spirals that are supposed to represent mind control for symbiotes, Anti-Venom, etc. Also what makes Venom during his anti-villain days special is how obsessive his in killing Peter and of innocence, they're not your typical revenge focused villain they ONLY want to punish Peter, that means no attacking MJ, or Aunt May or his fake robot parents Harry built to get revenge. So I don't really like that idea though I will grant you it is more in character for Harry than the symbiote. TDLR: Venom is the original Spidey spinoff character not a villain, his comics are great and outsell Peter's please give them a chance.

I think its just there are two types of venom, the venom that is his own character in need of a host that you talk about, and venom that works for knull to take over the universe with an army of symbiotes like in the game

The difference with insomniacs venom is he’s not driven by hatred towards Spiderman, harry and the symbiote feel rejected by Peter as Peter didn’t need the symbiote and has miles now so he doesn’t “need” harry. It’s the feeling of rejection that brings the obsession for trying to assimilate Peter back into the symbiote through his and Harry’s shared goal of saving the world. The symbiote takes this approach because if it is “saving the world” and being a hero it aligns with Spider-Man’s goal to save the city, in which the two agree and reunite. Personally I think I think this video essay takes a purist mentality which overshadows what insomniac actually did.

I'm so happy to see more honest non-biased reviews of this mixed bag sequel. Thank you so much for that. Even Cosmonaut & Godzilla Mendoza aren't sugar-coating this.

I agree that the game should've had more time spending on bonding with Harry, and in the second act needing more urgency in the need of the suit back. I felt like crying during the Howard side mission than the final boss. And from what I heard, this story went flat cause they pulled a Disney and switched writers. Don't quote me on that, I just heard. Now something I do have to point out is, of course this isn't the venom we grew up with. Just like how the advanced suit isn't the suit we grew up with, Insom making us want Otto to NOT become Doc Ock, skipping the repeated backstory, especially with how this game ended with Peter having a permanent Anti-Venom suit. Insomniac is taking risks in trying new things. And no, they should not make Eddie venom, everyone, including yourself, would end up question where he came from, why he's here etc etc. Yes I agree that we didn't get motivations for Venom killing or hurting spider-man. The game definitely should've been longer because these ideas could help it: -Have Miles bond with Harry (Both lost a parent to something they couldn't prevent, but now they both have the thing to prevent it ever repeating again) -Spend more time developing Peter and Harry's friendship, and show some negatives here and there (Agree with Harry talking about how Peter cared more about his identity and saving the city than keeping Harry alive with the symbiote). -And a minor thing, give us a scene of Miles making the evolved suit (With a slightly better design, I'm already fine with the current one) like maybe his previous suit can't handle his evolved Lightning powers so he made one that could handle it.

Thank you for this. Im starting to think more and more people are realising this since the game's been out for a while now. This version was extremely disappointing. A "new take" on venom that takes away everything that makes him unique. This is the only interpretation of venom that could be misconstrued with any of spidey's other villians when naming their motivations, and that's just sad. And it pains me that some think this js unironically "one of the best interpretations of venom", because it just tells me they have no clue what the character actually entales

Imagine thinking Venom hates Spider-man more than Green Goblin or Doc Ock. Not only that in Amazing Spider-man 317 The Symbiote literally abandons Brock when Peter offers himself to it.

I will stay strong knowing that Neversoft Venom will always be the best adaptation

What happened is they came up with “heal the world” and thought it was such a cool line they shifted the whole story on that line

This was way better than I thought it would be. Bravo

So many Insomniac glazers in these comics lol. Keep rolling bro!

I feel like people are hating on insomniac venom too much. I like the approach that they took making venom truly evil and making him wanting to take over the well worked well in my opintion. I understand the emotional lack but I feel like an alien symbiote who came to earth in a meteorite is allowed to be scary without emotions.

Two things in insomniac nailed with venom, best design and best voice actor but your are cooking 💯

I think Goblin hates Spider-man as much as Venom does the look on his face when he realised Pete was back in Goblin Nation was priceless

10:49 this exact frame, is where more dialogue was needed and MJ coming ruined the only chance left to develop the story better

This is an amazing video man! Venom deserved so much better. This game is just lame compared to the first one overall. Actually, I'm going to watch your review on spider man 2 now. Keep it up!

Swapping out Eddie Brock with Harry Osborn was an excellent move on Insomniac’s part because the writing on his arc is nearly flawless. Harry was a dying man who wanted to heal the world, and the symbiote offered him a twisted version of that dream through turning others into symbiote infected zombies. The game made Venom more than just a stalker out to kill Spider-Man. Venom was actually a threat to the safety of not only New York City but the entire planet. And his relations with Peter (being that Harry is his best friend) as well his motivations makes Venom a very sympathetic character.

Having Harry Osborn as Venom just shows they had no idea what to do with in concept

crazy theory, eddie didnt need to be venom but they could have referenced and used the exact sequence peter gets the symbiote back at the beginning of web of shadows where it partly comes off venom and then thats how we got the black suit back in this game after we remove it, and then kept antivenom for a bigger martin li arc helping the spidermen take down venom then harry becomes antivenom. they have the brain power to execute that ina very cool way i know they do but hey we got what we got plus we know the studio was rushed to put this out

I think the idea was that Harry wanted to heal the world and venom made him think spreading the symbiote globally would remove disease and pain and heal the world until after the scream fight, he realized it wouldn’t

I definitely noticed that juice beat playing in the background for a bit W vid😂

I honestly think the game's story was close to being great and had a lot of the right ingredients, but was kinda afraid of really going all in with its potential specifically with Venom. I don't even think the symbiote invasion was a bad idea on paper, the problem was the context of the invasion and Venom acting like an evil monster trying to take over the world. Since you talked about how you would've done Venom, I should share some ideas for how I would rewrite the character while keeping Harry as the host. Something I think would've really improved the story without straying away from what we got too much is having the Venom symbiote talk to Peter during the black suit arc. I mean the symbiote having actual conversations with Peter and not just tempting him. It could really flesh out Venom's character and develop a deep emotional connection between the symbiote and Peter. Then once we get to the symbiote invasion, Venom would genuinly want to help Harry heal the word by giving everyone symbiote powers. But the conflict comes from that his way of healing the world isn't the right way and very unnatural. Also, I have an idea on how Venom's relationship with Peter can depend on the player's actions. How I would do this is making an unusual change to the symbiote Peter boss fight and I'm not gonna explain it here since it'll fill the comments section. But let's just say you would have to make a choice which will result in either Harry as Venom wanting Peter to be with him like what we got or Harry as Venom hating Peter similar to the classic Venom from the comics. I'm making a short series of Reddit posts on how I would improve Venom's character and I already made two if anyone wants more context on my idea. But the point I'm getting at a lot the problems with Insomniac Venom can be fixable while keeping Harry as the host and the symbiote invasion as the third act.

I understand and respect your opinion. I like Harry tho. I like that he is closer and more personal to Peter than Eddie ever was.

Another issue I see is these rather rapid fire of close connection villains but don't know how to balance them, which makes it kinda odd. The first Spider-man game had two mentors turned villains, but with those two cases, they had their own reasons and believed to be the best way to fight their enemy, so they kinda worked as two plots. A co-worker turning villain in Wraith was kinda odd in the DLC, and I don't think that the approach they went with really helped. And now Miles Morales and Spider-man 2 both have best friends becoming villains where Miles kinda messes up the story. Miles' whole thing in Spider-man 2 is his quest for revenge for killing his dad. Which is completely undermined by the fact he spent most of his DLC game stopping his best friend from doing the exact same thing. So Harry's friendship with Peter is battling Miles being Peter's student. Which,Miles gets priority over as he's the second main character. Harry could have broken through to Pete to get the suit off. Harry could have spent time questioning if it would be better to die or take the risk of wearing the suit, and it takes over him. Kraven could have kidnapped Harry as bait and tortured him to not only fuel Peter's rage but make Harry more afraid and angry to push him into wanting the suit back. But instead, we need to spend time giving Miles attention not only in his slight jealousy at the start but he needs to save Spider-man because he is also Spider-man. He needs something to make him worth putting into the game. Just make him spend the game wanting revenge on Li with absolutely nothing about Phin making any impact on his decision in the slightest that it may as well didn't happen. In terms of in relation to story, I don't think Phin is even brought up. As a whole, I think that there is a bit of a rush and trying through things. And I don't see it getting much better in the third game. Especially if they want Doc Ock and Green Goblin teaming up and they want Carnage assuming he isn't the DLC villain who are mostly angry at the Spider-man. It all depends on what route they take with it, but I'll think that it will face the same issue of too many people fighting for the spotlight. Thankfully, Otto and Norman are already established and have been built upon. But it still depends on how much they want surrounding characters to interfere in the story, especially if they want Miles as the Spider-man. He'll need something to justify his existence.

I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who picked up on this. Big miss especially since the setup was there with Peter “stealing” the suit! Could have been amazing and made a great story. Man this video is great!

I think it would have been more impactful if we had some scenes showing how harry struggles after losing the sympiote and showing us how he's really sick and slowly dying so we can see how he's really desperate to get the sympiote back

I think how the symbiote works in the game is that it’ll try to give you what you want in a twisted way for example Peter wanted to be the best hero he can be so venom tried to do that in a way by making Peter willing to kill and for Harry he wanted to cured the world or make it a better place so venom tried to do that by turning everyone into symbiotes making so there is no more diseases and no more weakness but this is my opinion so feel free to tell me I’m wrong

This is what I've been trying to tell people this video explained it perfectly

I liked Eddie being venom more than Harry being Venom, cuz hello, Harry was already venom in the ultimate Spider-Man tv series

I sometimes think that around the last day that peter had the symbiote, he was closer to being a venom then venom was actually portrayed in the game.

you didnt know the secret to the drip till i showed you...AYY bro using the beat to the most goated juice song rn

I honestly think they cooked with spiderman 2. Although i do see your point. It probably would have been better with eddie brock as venom and have him like the ruthless venom we saw in the movies. But maybe they were just building it up for the third installment when harry or osborn become green goblin. So harry does have a lot of hatred towards peter and wants to kill him for good.

Hey man quick tip on your background music. You gotta have background audio that matches with your voice. You’re speaking in a relaxed and quiet manner, but you’re using a trap beat with hi-hats and bass that are constantly peaking over your voice. The point of background music is to stay in the background there’s numerous times where I start hearing the music more than your voice. Just switch up the music to where in flows with your flow and make sure it doesn’t take over your voice.

Imagine if they stepped away from the Planet of Symbiotes concept and tried to invest more into showing Pete’s and Harry’s friendship and then inverting it into making Harry driven by symbiote hurt Peter so badly and in the end realising his own damage refusing to bond with it anymore and give the symbiote for smb like Eddie or even Kraven Honestly it really felt that 1) Harry SHOULD NOT have been a main host considering him being a best friend and not being a real menace to Spider-Men (like was shown in mini boss fight clip that looked crazy) 2) Peter was severely nerfed without any reason so the symbiote becomes really messy with his head and not being able to realize all the side effects of wearing a suit by himself 3) Overall i really couldn’t empathize with symbiote’s motivation of making everyone bond with his “children” ‘cause it wasn’t explained by any means I guess if they at least said smth like his home was destroyed or he wants to come back on people who kept him in the tank for many years it would make more sense

Good video and I wonder if we gonna get knull in a dlc I know he’s absurdely powerful but I’m just curious

If your Venom cannot be imagined saying "Surf the web, surf the web" it's not Venom. Even Raimi's was goofy enough to do that shit.

Insomniac don't know that Venom isn't anyone bonded to the symbiote. It's Eddie bonded to the symbiote that makes Venom. There is no nice way to say it they're in all honesty idiots

Even though i really liked venom in spiderman 2 i was dissapointed because of the false advertisement of the CGI trailee "be greater together" where Venom is absolutely ruthless and a threat and in the game the only time he was ruthless was when he killed kraven aside from that he didnt feel like a threat

Insomniac’s Venom over time will just become cringe. He was just badly written and not fleshed out enough.

umm Otto was never good he manipulated Peter by only showing him his good side so Peter could be manipulated his villain plan was there in the very beginning its made even more obvious in there final battle when Otto reveals he's known Peters secret the entire time and was just using him which is why Peter was so angry Otto never went from good to bad he had anterior motives the entire time

I appreciate this video because it gives me a new perspective on why people don't like this interpretation of venom. Having said that while I don't think this interpretation of venom is perfect because it needed more time in the oven to really flesh out this interpretation of venom ultimately I think insomniac did a fine job with the symbiotes/venom because it's clear as day if you ever read chip zdarsky 's spider Shadow in terms of interpretation because the way how the symbiote manipulate and takes concepts and ideas that a person has and twisting it into something dark is exactly what that book touches upon (hell even near the end of that book it becomes Web of shadows so there's that) which I think both that book and Spider-Man 2 does really well for the story they're trying to tell. So while it is not a traditional venom that we're all used to It is an interpretation of venom that aligns with the comics and I think it worked but it could have been explored more. Hopefully when we get that venom game he'll be either more fleshed out or will be more in line with the Eddie Brock interpretation of the character.

And maybe the reason why; “As on one of ur big points through the video”, venom is not obsessively hating and trying to kill Spider-Man is because his host is an entirely different person. He’s not Eddie Brock “a total stranger to Peter” he’s Harry, a child hood friend of Peter! Different persons, with different relation to Peter, with different personalities. So I don’t think that, that change in this iteration shouldn’t be that horrible. After all there 2 different versions

Great points. Even the name “Venom” doesn’t even make sense in this story. If Venom is supposed to be a personal poison or venom to Peter, that’s not the case here. Trying to make sense of it, I’d probably think “oh, well maybe he’s a venom/poison to the world” BUT that STILL wouldn’t make sense bc in their eyes, they’re HEALING the world. Literally the opposite of venom. This motivation might get a pass if someone ELSE named them Venom but Harry/the symbiote literally name themselves with the iconic line “We are Venom”. There’s no way the name adds up here.

He was a COOL adaptation. I hear your points.

The motivation(s) part is where I feel like I disconnected. The hate isn't turning into an obsession, Venom believes that Peter is the perfect host, and due to Peter rejecting it, that's what causes the hate. Venom didn't just land on Earth hating Peter. It only hated him after the fact that Peter rejected it. I wouldn't consider, "hate turning into obsession" as a motive either, because that's just a transition either away. All in all, if you get rid of all the excess, the comic Venom you portray has one motive too; killing Spider-Man. The strong bond between host and symbiote hatred is also not a motive, it's just explaining why the symbiote bonds so well. It seems like most of those motives are just multiple parts of the same thing.

Tots agree. An important motivating factor for venom is the symbiote's personal knowledge of peters weaknesses including hus identity and peter rejecting it. On top of that eddie brock's character arc was meant to be representative of the of the whole " with great power comes great responsibility" thing and its lessons. His misuse of the symbiote's power and willingness to embrace its dark side was meant to demostrate the difference between him and peter. Peter was conflicted by the suit's power and the lack of control in exchange for the greater power made him question his own motives. The symbiote is also a metaphor for drugs, alchohol, steroids, power or influence and how it can change a person. In comparison peter had a internal compass that cause him to be grounded even when he received his base while eddie with even more power immediately used it to the extreme of his personal benefit. Harry is just really a scared sick guy that got highjacked by a stronger force whereas brock was a capable person that felt entitled to more just because he always felt as if he was better than others. The fact the harry needed it to live and would not have become a bad person had he never got the symbiote undermines the themes and messages that venom was created to convey. The idea that all that glitters isnt gold doesnt apply to harry because the symbiote kept him alive and gave him a chance at normalcy not just power stacked upon an already fully capable person

You were 100% right about insomniacs venom having full control. The motivation is the same though. Venom is obsessed with peter. Saying lines to miles like, “You tore us apart.” “You we’re jealous.” So by the standpoint of venom being in control he has a clear obsession with peter.

The hate of spider man was a important part of his character but he's grown way beyond that into new motivations and growth to become his own hero. And that I am sad not to see. Venom the heroic monster

Eddie being venom is a bit hard to take seriously. Like my guy loses one job and decides he’s gonna go kill the guy. That’s just crazy it’s established through a ton of continuities that Peter is the perfect host so why on earth does the symbiote want to kill Peter? I’m a huge venom fan btw but it doesn’t really make much sense.

One thing that bothered me and still bothers me is that Venom is not a combination of Harry and the symbiote. Personally, I would have liked Venom to be at least similar to Spider-Man 3 For example, Venom in Spider-Man 3 was clearly a combination of two things, not just a one-sided thing, which made the last stage so unimportant to me.

i think if they ddn't use venoms name then this would be a good villain the problem is they don't explain enough and they don't do the whole syboise thing perfect harmony stuff so the "we" in "we are venom" doesn't work it should have been "I am venom" because in the venom let their be carnage movie venom dose takeover a few humans

You also forgot to bring up kraven ..cause kraven view of the world is important to understand what the symbiotic thinks human nature is

I understand the criticisms here, however, I feel like now that we know insomniac are going to make a venom lethal protector game, everything makes a lot more sense, at least to me. Venom in this game was meant to enhance Peter and Harry’s arcs while also setting up the events for sm3. This game also gives venom a reason to hate spiderman after the final fight, which will likely lead him to bond with Eddie Brock in the lethal protector game. But for now, only time will tell I guess lol

I think Harry as Venom could've worked, now hear me out. Harry Osborn in almost every adaptation, movies, games, he's always Peter's best/childhood friend. That's why I think Venom could work as Harry, he always has a closer and more significant bond than Eddie ever did, Eddie has always been this reporter that's been portrayed as very vengeful to Spider-Man, since Harry is Peters best friend, I think since Venom took him over, Peter would have more of a drive to really save him. I do agree with him being more of a villain, Venom seems mostly neutral, trying to avoid killing Peter, but everyone else needs to die, which is what I like about Insomniacs portrayal, it shows the brotherly bond with Harry and Pete, and how sad it is when Harry 'dies' at the end of the game. You could make an argument with MJ being their close childhood friend as well, but when Peter was unconscious, the symbiote chased her throughout the tunnel, not to mention dragged her and forcibly turned her into Scream, tried to kill her multiple times. The symbiote has been nothing but possessive over Peter, Harry trying to get Peter to heal the world the whole time, at every turn, Harry is always trying to possess him, and turn him back into a symbiote. The symbiote even tried to run back to Peter as soon as he got it off, thats what makes the dynamic work, the symbiote is possesive, aggressive, and does everything to get to Peter Parker.

I honestly think if the leak about the venom solo game is true then this game was more so Venom’s introduction to the insomiacverse which is a shame cause there could have been more. We get time to bond with Harry and see the symbiote really bring out the worst in Peter but once we get the big guy himself there isn’t really much outside of what to expect. Alright we’re pretty quickly building up to the final battle where Peter has to confront him abandoning and trying to save his best friend while combatting what is essentially a demon who almost made him ruin his own life. We see Peter throughout the symbiote invasion arc really be forced to confront his mistakes (taking MJ for granted) and confront some of the pain he still has from Aunt May’s death. Once Venom is defeated Peter takes a much needed break from Spider-Man, Miles takes on more responsibility and we get Green Goblin set up for game 3. This is all fine but I genuinely think there should have been more during this arc and with Venom. We could have gotten more of the obscure symbiotes being boss fights to give the symbiote invasion more time to be fleshed out, missions with venom himself to learn more about him. Maybe set up a possible anti hero arc later on by showing Venom is more or less a puppet for Knull and we could see hints he wants more than to be a parasite but follows what he’s been told. Just feel there should have been more but I still enjoy the game.

I love this version of Venom. Probably my favourite venom, yet he was literary an Avengers level threat

“Using Harry’s body as a puppet” like when it used Pete’s body when he was sleep? Or how it uses every hosts body ? Including Eddie Brock?

In the comics,Venom was basically explaining his entire backstory and motivation to Spider-Man while he had him captive,and he was explaining how he had to write for any trashy newspaper that would hire him after being fired from The Daily Globe. He said that he was forced to write "venomous" gossip columns about celebrities,and so he chose Venom as his name. So that it would always remind him of what he feels like Spider-Man had done to him.

You could argue that we know Harry’s importance because of how he was discussed in PS4

Yeah, I’m starting to see why fans are mixed with this game, especially with Venom. I posted this in another video, but I think I have a solution to the Venom problem. And it involves some changes. 1. Give Peter and Miles separate game modes. So that their story arcs aren’t crammed together. Maybe get them to work together briefly in one mission. 2. Make the game longer. So we can spend more time with the characters. 3. Add Eddie Brock into the story. 4. Don’t have the symbiotes fully control characters. Just only let them release their negative emotions. Now, onto Venom. Eddie Brock, like Harry, would come back into Peter’s life. Through flashbacks, we learn that Brock used to work at the Daily Bugle, had a fiancée, and a successful news show. One day, he met Peter, and taking a liking to him, gave Peter the opportunity to work at the Bugle. This led to Peter becoming a photographer. However, due to Spider-Man’s growing popularity, and Peter’s photos of Spider-Man selling more money, Eddie begins to lose views on his show. Desperate, he faked a photo using his fiancée’s computer, since she works as an editor, and made it look like Spider-Man was a crook. However, Peter learned it was fake, and was a copy of his photo. This led to Eddie getting fired, losing his engagement, and his show getting cancelled. This led to Brock leaving New York to San Francisco. 9 years later, he comes back after San Francisco left him jobless, and he tries to get his old job back. But Jameson won’t trust him, until they both learn of the Emily May Foundation, and since it’s an Oscorp facility, Brock offers to try to find something on the foundation, and Jameson decides to give him one last chance. As he leaves, he runs into MJ, and the two talk, and after learning that she’s Peter’s girlfriend, decides to spite him. He talks about Peter with MJ, telling her about how he and Peter were pals, until Peter “betrayed” him, and as he tells her that he’s gonna throw her away when he’s done using her, he endangers their safety in traffic, leading to MJ to tell him “Peter may not be perfect, but he’s twice the guy you’ll ever be.” before leaving. This angers Brock, but his words do plant the seeds of MJ’s insecurities with Peter. Eddie would go into the Emily May Foundation, and he runs into Peter. At first, Brock wants nothing to do with him, but Peter tries to apologize about years ago. Brock just tells him to keep his sympathy, saying that Parker doesn’t deserve sympathy. During his stay at the foundation, he sees a military uniform in the hallway. Later, he breaks in, and finds that the uniform is missing, and seeing black goo on it, begins to suspect something. He’s been trying to figure out where Spider-Man got the new look and powers, and went back to the foundation, seeing the uniform gone. This leads to him getting suspicious of the foundation even more. He then runs into Harry, and the two chat, until Brock brings up the exact same thing he told MJ. Harry doesn’t believe that, but when Peter refuses to give him the symbiote, he begins to believe that. So does MJ, which leads to her trying to prove herself by finding Kraven’s location, getting herself captured. This also leads to Harry telling his dad he knows where the symbiote is, leading to Norman getting his security to hunt Spider-Man, by any means necessary. Eventually, after Peter got the symbiote off, he goes to Oscorp to destroy it. Eddie, who broke in to find something on the foundation, learns that Peter is Spider-Man as a result. Harry also comes in, and after Peter webs up Eddie, he tells Harry they have to destroy the Symbiote. Enraged, Harry swings his cane at Peter, who dodged, but dropped the container as a result, cracking it. This leads to the Symbiote breaking out, knocking both of them away. It then heads towards the webbed up Brock, and jumps at his face, bonding with him as a result. Eddie then breaks out of the webbing, attacks Spider-Man, and throws him to the side, and Norman sends security to get it off of Brock. Brock rampages through Oscorp, and kills the last remaining hunters, before fighting Kraven. After killing him, Eddie is horrified, and thinks of what he’s done. The Symbiote then talks with Eddie, and the two decide to make a bond to get revenge on Peter for ruining Eddie’s life and rejecting the Symbiote. Now known as Venom, he attacks Peter the next morning, and the two have a brief fight, before Brock reveals he’s gonna take everything he loves from him, like he did with him. He starts off with stalking Harry, who is dying in the hospital, and Peter fights Eddie to keep him away from Harry. However, Eddie disappears. Eddie then goes to where Peter lives, and he confronts Peter and MJ, and we get the “We are Venom” line. Then, Venom reproduces the Scream Symbiote, who forcibly bonds with MJ, leading to her fighting Spider-Man. Venom would watch Peter and MJ have their couples counseling across the neighborhood, which is empty due to Scream unleashing the symbiote around it. Venom then leaves after Scream is defeated. This is when Peter decides to fight back. He and MJ set up a plan to separate Eddie from the symbiote, but there’s one problem. Connors told Spider-Man that Eddie and the symbiote are a perfect match, meaning that the only way to stop Venom is to kill Eddie. Not wanting Brock to die, he and MJ try to find a way that doesn’t involve killing him. This is when the final boss happens, and it’s in 4 phases. Brock comes back into his apartment, only to find his place filled with newspapers of him getting fired, and him stealing the symbiote. Thanks to MJ getting old newspapers of Brock fired, and Harry revealing the truth about Venom, who was assumed to be Spider-Man now a monster, Peter redecorated the place. Enraged, Venom chases him, which leads to a chase while playing as Venom. Finally, they reach the top of the daily bugle, where Spider-Man and Venom fight on. Spidey tries to tell Eddie that he needs to remove the symbiote, and tries to talk with Eddie to try to get him to come to his senses, but Brock won’t listen, calling Peter out on ruining his life, how “we gave you what you needed, and you THREW us away!” The fight ends with Venom overpowering Peter, and seeing Jameson below, plans to remove Spider-Man’s mask. However, Peter says “It doesn’t matter what you do to me. It won’t fix your life. Not like this.” Venom growls before saying “Well, get ready for your closeup, Pete.” However, before he could remove his mask, MJ tases Venom, giving Peter the chance to escape. But this leads to Venom kidnapping MJ, and fleeing to the foundation. Webbing her up, he continues to fight Peter, which continues outside and into the nearby church. This is what Peter and MJ planned. They planned to lure Venom to the bell tower in order to separate Eddie from the symbiote. Peter tries to use the bell’s ring in order to get the symbiote off of Brock, like how he got rid of it, but Venom takes the bell, and throws Spider-Man and the bell back to the foundation, injuring Peter. This is when Peter decides to go for one more plan. He tells the symbiote that it’s proven it’s point that he’s nothing without it, and asks it to take him back. MJ, seeing this, shouts at Peter to don’t, and begins to break out by tasing the web. At first, Eddie refuses, saying “it’s found a better partner in me”, but the symbiote leaves Brock, no matter how much he begged. As Brock goes through a mental breakdown, MJ runs over to Peter, who’s body is consumed by the symbiote. MJ tries to desperately tase Peter to get it off of him, but it’s not working. Realizing Peter could be gone, MJ breaks down in tears, hugging Peter dearly. In Peter’s mind, the symbiote realizes that Peter doesn’t want him back, and tries to take over, but the thoughts of those close to him defy the Symbiote’s influence, leading to it getting off of Peter. Seeing the symbiote heading towards Eddie, who reacts happily, she goes towards them. Before Eddie could reach out to the symbiote, it is contained by her. He tries to attack her to get it back, but Peter, now conscious, webs Eddie up. He and MJ have an emotional moment, before he swings them away, leaving Brock for the police. With the symbiote contained, Peter goes to the hospital to talk with Harry. He thinks about giving it to him, but Harry refuses. He tells Peter he understands now that the symbiote really is dangerous, and he’s done either way. He tells Peter to heal the world by getting rid of it somehow. After having a moment, Peter embraces Harry, who peacefully dies in his arms, leaving one single tear. After mourning for Harry, Peter goes to get rid of the symbiote, but not before Norman bursts in, seeing Harry dead, and shouting at Spider-Man why didn’t he give it to him. Peter then buried the symbiote in dry cement, before heading back to May’s house. He begins to set up a version of the Emily May Foundation, but retires as Spider-Man. He couldn’t see himself in that mask after seeing what men like Otto and Eddie have ended up as. Peter would put the mask back on, but only when Norman becomes the Green Goblin.

Knull and the meteorite are the reason this Venom acted that way, they gave us hint with the spirals

It's really as contemporary and generic as it can get for modern Venom. Symbiote with full control, underdeveloped host, wants to cause Web of Shadows for the dozenth time, and is basically a giant slime man as opposed to a bulkier and more gruesome Spider-Man. I was worried this sort of thing would happen once it was revealed Harry was gonna be Venom bc I remembered Ultimate Spider-Man's attempt at it being fuckin awful. This is just barely above that purely bc he's more appealing on an audiovisual level It's not because they switched the host out; it's because they do it, but then just don't know where to go from there so they just play the safest and most boring route possible: "oh lol evil goo comin at ya oh man oh boy". Insom's lost a lot of points for me. That leaked Venom game would have to be the coolest shit for me to get me trusting them again when it comes to this narrative. They had 5 years to plan this out and they just straight up wasted it.

Venom is attached to a completely different host, the host who still cares about Peter of course venom would be different. Eddie Brock shares a hate for Spider-Man with venom. In the end venom manipulates and twists the host to get what venom wants, while still trying to keep Peter. “Venoms motivations do not along with the original venoms motivation” It’s a completely different universe most universes in marvel has differences and motivations.

I just hope the Venom solo game does a better job characterizing Venom, I also hope either Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson is his host this time, I admit having Harry Osborn as Venom serve as a antagonist and final boss for Marvels Spider-Man 2 was a smart move, but I really think a Venom solo game should star someone who actually was Venom in the comics.

I personally think venom the symbiote is aggressive is because Peter made it like that due to him being aggressive and wanting revenge against kraken so the suit picked up Peter’s more aggressive motives and tried to take them to a level Peter wasn’t able to go to so when harry got the suit it was confused and enraged with Peter because it thinks it was abandoned for no reason. So when harry was all mad it was probably temporary but since harry isn’t a mentally strong as Peter he and his goals were taken out of context and turned into hate. Also how is hate turning into obsession a motivation.

the third act of this game is basically the same to the second. Peters close friend and coworker gets evil so he has to use his new suit to stop him. I know this has nothing to do with the point with the video. But yeah i totally agree and ive been saying since day1 they made a mistake by going with harry, specially like this. "Venom" doesnt even hate peter

the symbiote IS obsessed with peter in this game. when it gets torn off it tries to crawl back to peter and it chose harry because harry and the symbiote were both felt betrayed by peter also he CONSTANTLY tries to bring peter onto their side. you still have a point but you aren't giving this venom a fair chance.

Although I WILL say..having Venom as Eddie Brock at this point seems kinda impossible. It was foreshadowed in the ending of the very first game Venom was Harry, we seen him with the suit in the ending, and THAT was all because Harry was sick, and the cure for him was currently a POISON....or a Venom...

Venom not being eddie was a huge let down to me. I don't know why they can never do the story justice. Only in spiderman tas from the freaking 90s got it right. Also eddie is freaking jacked this venom reminds me of spiderman 3 movie majorly. And my biggest disappointment with that movie was eddie was turned into a pencil thin person. Here they did the exact same thing. Eddie basically looked like arnold schwarzenegger and that was way cooler to me. Venom movies were also disappointing because 1. there was no spiderman all that awesome plot skipped and 2 he's supposed to start out a villian only later does he become an anti hero.

If they did all the classic venom stuff it wouldn’t be an “original take”. They were trying something new with the character, can’t be mad at them for being ambitious

spectacular spider-man from 2008 also adapted eddie venom well.

I hate how Norman Osborn has destroyed the city twice now and Peter hasn’t so much as batted an eye. Also we got two games so far teasing green goblin and no green goblin. Further more we got a venom game that sets up Cletus Cassidy only to leave the carnage symbiote as a tease, like what?!?! And to top it all off they wanna do the most surface level exploration into the lore of the symbiote despite it being the main focus of the story.

Yeah he’s not venom he’s gooey hulk. Don’t @ me.

Then again it's probably why this is a Venom instead of THE Venom....they're saving Eddie for his own game...

Love that you chose to use the John Bubniak footage (ps4 version) when showing cutscenes/gameplay from sm1, truly is better then the remaster.

Ever since marvels Spider-Man came out in 2018, it brought with it a bunch of fake Spider-Man fans that were never really into Spider-Man until that point. I remember everyone back then saying Spider-Man games were mid or boring or just simply didn’t play them. I’m telling you that marvels Spider-Man 2s story was very poorly made. If it’s shown me anything it’s that insomniac couldn’t handle putting 2 Spider-men in the same world to play as. On top of that insomniac only cares about sales to the highest degree. I mean just look at all the light hearted content in that game and the SIDE QUESTS and references that get made…yeah… seems like they’re trying to cater to as many audiences as possible for the sales if you ask me. Touching back up with how they handle the game though it’s just too family friendly…they very clearly don’t wanna take risks and to give miles the spotlight they diminish Pete’s character. The game as a whole isn’t a waste or even bad, the gameplay is extremely compelling and fun I love the parry system. But the entire story, just the way it feels and how I feel watching all these cutscenes, just feels wrong and not at all good. Really wanna harp on the game being too family friendly like seriously, I’m supposed to believe these are grown adults with the way they act SERIOUSLY. Miles is just a kid but still what the hell were they thinking. They could have at least made Mary Jane beautiful…

Your point is Valid cause I said the same thing but hey…it’s their take on him…do wish he was more Spider-Man like but I what they did was cool in my opinion. Hope he gets to web swing in his solo game 😂😂

False advertising is a big problem in video games

Bro, insomniac venom is the goat stop underrating him

I think the first time (and only other time) Harry was Venom, in Ultimate Spider-Man (the cartoon) was executed a lot better. Harry had a motivation (seeking his father's approval) and was able to fight back when the symbiote took control, though only for short moments