Why a Decent Doesn't Always Make Better Espresso 

I think secretly , we are just looking for justifications to buy and collect new toys .

As a recent Decent owner, it does not guarantee you will make a perfect shot. However, it does allow you to dial in the coffee and is easily repeatable. I moved up from a Breville, which is much more limiting. My current latte shot starts at a much lower temp than you would think and ramps down, a delicious shot that cannot be done elsewhere. Playing with steam extraction in the first few seconds is a fun and easy-to-use machine.

Well done. You have explained the variences in way that was in a very clear and concise way.

Great video. Love the style and honesty of the video. Keep it original and keep it your own.

John, I have a La Marzocco Linea Mini as my primary espresso machine and I love it! I recently purchased the new Flair 58 and a Smart Profiler transducer which I connect to the Smart Profiler app and my Acaia Lunar Scale. I also got a Y valve that allows me to use the Bluetooth Profiler transducer at the same time as the Flair 58 pressure gauge. This is all new to me and I am still learning. I guess it’s allows me to use the Flair 58 and plot ( similar to the Decent to certain extent)! The Flair 58 is new to me and I am still learning to use it. I am having fun with it. Eventually I do intend on getting a Decent but I will play with my Flair 58 with the Smart Profiler transducer etc for a while first! But my Linea Mini is not going anywhere! I read the other day that someone mentioned that La Marzocco is working on upgrading the App for the Linea Mini that if it’s plumb you will be able to use the paddle not as an on and off switch but to do some type of pressure or flow profiling on the Linea Mini. If it’s true that would be fabulous upgrade for the Linea Mini. Thanks again for another interesting video! Regards Ed Godoy

Great video and comparison! Really enjoy your honesty and perspective.

Congrats on 500 subs!!!!! 🙌🏼 🥳

Brilliant video and you’ve made my mind up about my future upgrade!!

Very thoughtful presentation. Thank you 🙏

john this channel rocks, thanks for offering your perspectives! I’m with you that the flair 58 can compensate best for incoming variation with the manual lever feedback. At this point, as long as I’m somewhere in the grind ballpark, my shots can always taste good, adjusting pressure and yield based on the flow I get. I think my maximum cup quality combo would be a flair 58 + cheap single boiler machine just for steam.

Very cool video! Lots of intuition and info. I’m big with you regarding what truly matters. I feel like grinders play a much bigger part!!

This was a great discussion, thank you

Thanks for the video. Have been debating on a Decent for over a year, and think I might just wait. Adding a lever machine is looking more appealing.

That's the best explanation I heard for these three machines ever.

Spot on and fabulous video.

Decent is amazing and I’m thankful I purchased it!

Super cool super fun video, very informative

I'm actually deciding among these 3 machines at the moment. For the last month I've been leaning towards the Decent (already have an order in a checkout basket). In the end I knew the features of the decent are what I'd ultimately like to experiment with and I have an interest in what the Decent is doing with Tea as well. The Flair 58 will also probably make it to my coffee cart too, as again it's just something to play with. Thanks for the Video appreciate your insights!

You have a very pleasant personality. Would love to get more videos from you

this is hilarious. thank you so much for the great video!

Thank you, love my BDB. Probably going to stick with it... No pressing need to "upgrade."

This is great! I actually have a BDB and 58, but was recently debating whether to “upgrade” my bdb to a decent…mostly for some of the convenience features like auto profiling and auto stop based on weight…probably hone in on a few profiles I like and tinker a small portion of time. Would you recommend the machine for that? Or would something like a spring lever be more appropriate?

Great video! Glad you’re up and running with the Decent. I haven’t used the other machines that you showed in your video. What you said seems like very solid advice. Some notes on the Decent Espresso (DE) machine: Yes it can be frustrating at times, but I do really find it to be super fun to use. You forgot to mention the community. It’s very welcoming and you’ll learn a lot if you’re looking to up your game. The community knowledge base may be worth the extra money. There’s some work being done in the programming to make the UI/UX better as well. Finally, if a person buys a DE and hates in the resale is really good at the moment so you could easily make your money back. But again I feel like you maybe right about ease of use and wants and needs. A person doesn’t need a DE but it has a lot of versatility and it seems to be improving over time. I personally like it. I’ll be trying a lever soon so we’ll see how that goes. 😃

Found the La Pavoni Europiccola similar. Direct feedback and Always seems to give good results easy. But it can ALSO steam milk (however not the most nice machine to steam milk with).

Yeah one of my friends has a la marzocco linea mini. He decided not to drink espresso at my place since I only have a Breville dual boiler and he thinks there's a massive difference so it's not worth it. I didn't think there was but what would I know... I've only been a barista for 2 years... Can't wait to show him this video.

I think the Breville Dual Boiler is the best value for your money, assuming that you have a very good grinder to pair with it.

Thanks for the nice review. I am considering to buy the dual boiler or Lelit Elizabeth. As much as like the features of the dual boiler, specially the slayer mod, I am considerate about its longevity. If you can share your thoughts or experience about it? Thanks

My bar has a 58, bdb and ECM mechanika on it, and the Flair gets used 90% of the time. I have an SEP coming in for nerdy graph duties!

Great video. If you get all three machines, you can start the day with a morning cup using one of your pre-programmed shots on the Breville before sitting down with the Decent to choose a profile and generally have a play. In the afternoon, to meditate and wind down after all your hard work, go to the Flair :)

Thanks for the video Flair shot was so quick, in my experience actually flair needs finer grind than literally every other machine That was the reason flair shot was thinner as you said. On something like niche zero, flair needs at least 1 number finer setting compare to something like gaggia I would be glad if you can try it then tell me the results Thanks

I am currently using the Breville Dual Boiler machine. The best value is that Australian electrical appliances are often on sale for about 1,000 Australian dollars. The price is less than 700 US dollars. The only small disadvantage is that he uses 220V

"Nerdery" -- love it!

Well done on a great video but some other reasons to choose one machine over another. Longevity? Serviceability? Down time? Availability of parts? Delivery costs? Steaming power? Cup warming tray? Local support? Water tank accessibility? Drip tray?

Subscribed based on this awesome video. I applaud your pragmatism and focus on value. There is a use case for Decent that you may not have considered. For someone like me, who is significantly visually impaired, Decent lets you shift a lot of the control over shots and subsequent data analysis from "at the machine" to a computer with higher quality assistive technology than that found in a tablet. I'm looking at a DE1Pro for this reason. I hope the rest of your day is great, and that you are able to get that stop-at-weight situation resolved.

I’m on the fence and would greatly appreciate your input. I’m debating whether to buy a Breville double boiler or a Londonium R24. Yeah one is 3500 whilst the other $1600. I want something to learn on and yet be able to pull some of the best shots over the long haul. If you had a choice between the two - which would you go for? TIA

I think if the correct extraction method applied there shouldn't be much difference as maximizing extraction, extracted all the flavours from the beans. I was a little surprised about the Breville. I oftenly probably underrate the Breville because it's an appliance and has a 54mm not a traditional 58mm commercial size basket. Good video.

Knockout comparison. Thank you.

Great review! Just wondering what your thoughts are on the flare 58 vs a traditional lever machine like a La Pavoni or something like the odyssey oe1? These have the manual control of the flare plus can steam milk so best of both worlds?

Wow quite the lineup of machines! Question: why 90° and not 95 for a light roast?

Could you make a Video on different Flow-Profiles with the Flair 58? Which Flow Profile is good for certain roast levels? Which flow profile do you use if you dial in an unknown bean on the flair? And: How does Pre-Infusion Time influences Taste? How does Pre-Infusion Pressure influence Taste? That would be very interesting, since this kind of videos are very rare on youtube!

What machine would you recommend if you want just espresso but too lazy for flair/robot? Classika?

I missed it; did you say what grinder you used?

Excelent video, thank you! I am an owner of Breville Bambino plus and I am constantly looking in a Flair58 and Decent direction. Breville Bambino plus is really capable machine, entry level, but still really good. While I have wet dreams of Decent, no way I can afford myself one. So, I hope soon, will go with flair 58, whichI find complete tool for reaching best possible espresso and most economical espresso, water management, cleaning, servicing...

Amazing video. Can you make a video on the basics of manual espresso. Like what things you should be looking at, what feeling you should be getting, and how to adjust (hold vs increase vs decrease pressure)? I know alot of people are getting into manual machines, but it's unclear what kind of profiles play well to manual. Probably a hard question to answer, but would be great to hear some guidance.

Bro.. you pulled 3 bad shots and comparing 3 bad espresso and says that they taste same. You spent 4K on espresso machine but you couldn't get a decent grinder? All 3 shots were so watery with barely any crema. Secondly, whats up with 6 bar 2 bar 6 bar ???

Finally you can make decent ™️ coffee

Breville price are also going up like crazy BDB is now 2500 CAD here...

I wish the bdb was made with gravimetric dosing. I guess it works with a mod? Not sure exactly

I was going to do the same video

I wouldn’t expect the Decent to make espresso that’s miles better than the Flair but that’s not why it’s more expensive. It’s the automation, the data, all the bells and whistles that other machines just don’t offer. I probably wouldn’t use all the features on a Decent, if you love data then fair enough but if you just want a coffee something else would be better.

5:13 Perhaps it’s not you having problem with Decent’s ‘Stop-by-Weight’ function. It’s Decent not having a solution for receiving timely weight data through Bluetooth, it’s a typical Bluetooth protocol issue with data latency.

I've got a decent on it's way to me as a wedding gift, my question is what grinder would you point me towards? I'm really interested in the Niche, but any other pointers would be much appreciated.

Does the smart espresso profiler turn the 58 into something like the decent?

I have a couple relatives with the Breville, and they have never provided a cup of coffee as good as my Decent machine (or my previous three La Spaziales). Similarly, as much as I love my Decent, I still can't match my favorite espresso/cappuccino bar that uses a $25-30,000 La Marzocco.

What paper filters do you use in your basket?

First

As a kid I never got a steam engine toy. I think, now that I'm older I have to compensate for that.

Also note the Decent is sold at a higher price if you don't live in the US plus shipping from Decent is up to $1000. I don't understand Decent's approach to pricing. Where I live I can get a Londinium R24 or Olympia Cremina for less 😂.

You're probably having issue with stop at weight because the drip tray you printed is meant to be used without the stock drip tray.

I have two issues with the Decent other than price. The first is a tablet and all that tech getting between me and the making of the coffee. This introduces extra hassle like software updates, and unexpected behaviors (bugs, etc). When making the first coffee of the day I am all about simplicity, consistency, reliability, and reasonably short time for workflow (bye bye traditional E61 heated by boiler(s) also). When I am done making coffee I want a simple and reliable procedure for cleanup. Looking at the cleaning protocols for the Decent, they are way too complicated and use chemicals regularly. So I would get a Decent as a time consuming hobby, and one of the other machines to make my first 2 (and maybe only) coffees of the day. I do not want to be on a geeky messaging group to make wake-up coffee at home. Were I making coffee throughout the day for a small cafe, the Decent would be my choice, - cleaning would not be an issue then except I would have concerns about it working reliably. I could lose regular customers if they come in and I cannot make them their shot.

"Less than half the price" In Europe, the decent is 3500€, the DB can be bought at 1050€, even something as low as 810€ on sale. Thats a fourth of the price of the decent!

This guy’s voice reminds me of Alex Honnold

The Descent is nice toy. Don't even consider buying one unless you can buy it without blinking an eye at the cost. I have one, It's just another espresso machine....

Where is my wdt tool? /s

You don’t even need something as expensive as the breville. Gaggia classic and rancilio Silvia can both easily have a flow profile mod added.

how many little spray bottles full of clear liquid do you have that are near your coffee station that you needed to put a "water" label on it lol

Well I just can't see the Flair even being mentioned here, it's not in the same ballpark. It is a great manual machine! The BDB and Decent are a good comparisons and I'm happy to see the improvement in the BDB with flow control which removes my one criticism. I had the original one and it was limited as was my knowledge at the time. I've had the Decent almost two years now and it simply rocks. My normal shot uses a lever profile and it's always consistent shot to shot. For my usage, it's definitely overkill but money is not an issue so why not. I would say that the simple satisfaction of owning this beautiful piece of gear and using it multiple times a day is well worth the money. The company stands behind their product at a level I've never encountered before buying this product. Had the screen replaced 6 months ago free of charge. Two years in and still shocked at its ease of use.

I don't know what was wrong but by the look of the bottomless ALL of these shots were channeling like crazy and none of them ever had the streams come together. Stale coffee? Bad puck prep? Bad profile choice?

The 58 shot gives the same taste as from the other two?… Now imagine a shot from the 58 with no channelling. Good bye Decent.

I think that since all 3 are specially different, for someone who loves coffee brewing, is an engineer and can afford a collection of machines and try something different every time but not just drink coffee all 3 are a must!

th for the interesting comparison... its the grinder, stupid;-)). as in the HiFi business: a solid tube amp can subjectively taste, pardon: sound, better - even if the metrics of a higthech bolide look better. additionally: I don't like that kind of over-engineered machinery, its not the same as "making" (literally) a classic espresso more manually...

Mate, where are you buying the BDB for $1,600? That's a lot. It's commonly half that in Aus.

Sounds like your Decent is broken sell it to me cheap! :D kidding kinda. It's probably the scale itself or the fact you got it on the drip tray mod thing. Use it regularly on top of the drip tray to troubleshoot and see if that's the problem I'm guessing it would work better that way.

20$ paying for a coffie everyday. 365*20= 7300$ so is DE1 cheap or not 🤔🤔

I hated the workflow of the Flair 58.

If the flair is your favorite you should try some nicer manual espresso machines

the decent as great as it is, it sort of takes the "culture" out of making espresso. It becomes a lab experiment with all the graphs and flow profiles etc. The charm gets removed out from it with just a press of the button and you're golden.

Hello Jkim makes, I think you have major problems in your puck. Even do' it is not squirting all over the place, if you look carefully you have no flow zones on all 3 of the shots. I recommend you to not tamp that crazy hard and try to use a WDT tool in a separate cup. Try grind finer and tamp with less force. Cheers.

And for anybody who doesn't own an espresso machine, But watch videos like this because they're interesting, but you also don't want to spend $1,000 or more on an espresso machine then do yourself a favor buy a barista express or a barista pro. And I promise you you don't need six bars, you need a standard nine bar shot, you don't need anything fancy you don't need to buy a special grinder none of that. Everything comes with a barista express or barista pro and they are phenomenal machines. I can pull really good espresso shots because I use really good coffee and it's fresh and I watch what I'm doing and I dial it in which doesn't take but a few minutes. Don't spend over $1,000 on an espresso machine when the barista express and the barista pros are perfectly legit machines and if you can't afford either one of those start saving. But props to all you guys putting out here all the information for all the really super expensive espresso machines for all the "nerds".... I love all the information too so keep putting the videos out please. But to the novice people out there or people who know nothing about espresso but want to or people who don't have an espresso machine but they want to don't even think that these videos are telling you you can't get in on the espresso fun.... You can! ☕ I had my barista express for 3 years before I sold and upgraded to a pro and I expect another 3 to 4 years at least again... All that money that might have gone to more expensive machines could easily go to more coffee and more money in my pocket. BTW.... Sold my barista express for $350 and it was 3 years old.

This machine has only existed for 5 years and is made in China. I wouldn’t bother with this machine at all get a lever if you want pressure profiling that’s probably even better but less data rich.

Then thats indecent Lol 🤣

Do you live with your grandma or something? Lol

change your title...you are missing the words 'espresso machine'.

You should really be doing blind tasting. Also I lold at "the decent is warmer." Uhhh yeah you pulled it last.

Decent is so over-priced and has questionable build quality.

I don’t buy the Deshit. I think it’s all smoke and mirrors and a money grab for that company. Give me any capable machine with a quality grinder and a freshly roasted batch of coffee and I can stack it up as much or better than the Deshit.

If you use them she that isn’t working properly. Then you should use it. Do you the decent for a task and you were having problems with it and validates your test. Your test for dishonest none of your weight for the same as you said they were supposed to be. You admitted it but really what you did was dishonest.