Why and When did the Romans start wearing different Clothing and Armor? 

Hi I am a fan of you and your channel and I wanted to ask if and when you will make a video about Jews in the late Roman Empire

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The Tropaeum Traiani in Dacia portrays most Roman legions as wearing chainmail and scale armor during Trajan's 2nd century AD conquest of Dacia. Chainmail was also worn by the Romans since the early-mid Republican era. So the Romans never really got rid of their old armors and simply increased the use of their older armors.

Excellent observation. Yes, I agree, that certainly makes sense!

Im pretty sure the Romans did have the standard blueprints though. I thought the general change in the military dress was down to downsizing and cost cutting, The Empire could still affrod a huge ammount even at its lowest, but simpler. Easier to maintain gear was what they needed in a rapidly changing army. What's the point of giving Goths handmade Sementata armour if they're just going to abandon you, or not be your mercenaries in a year or so. Give them cheap and effective stuff.

@@lost6516 Mail is not cheap and i doubt scale was, buz AFAIK the segmentata never replaced mail really

Yeah individually it was costly, but it cleaned itself according to friends I have that acutally use it, and in general is alot more easy to maintain, cant say for certain for scale. Segmentata was a problem because it was complex. And when you're running a factory something that slows down the process becomes expensive. So while I think it was cheaper to produce. The time it took made it more expensive. Scale and Mail could be made en masse. It never fully replaced Mail, you're right there@@thodan467

@@lost6516Mercenaries came with their own equipment and fighting style. If you have to equip and train them on Roman equipment, they become auxillaries. As an example, Ceasar made use of both Gallic auxillaries/foederati and Germanic mercenaries. (admittedly, his foederati also came in their own equipment). I'm not sure if chain mail is really cheaper than lorica segmentata. A few plates and some leather or thousands of tiny rings. My guess is that chain mail requires much more labor to produce. It's also quite unlikely that the barbarians had much armor to begin with; so donating them some armor/weaponry was more of a honorable gift than strategic logistics.

I think Middle Eastern armour in the Middle Ages (Mongol Conquest period) was also influenced by Northern China. The Mongols brought over the Jin/Juchen style armour to the Middle East. Mamelukes in Egypt had similar armour styles to the Mongols they were fighting.

That Rome would have probably been pretty similar to how modern China looks today. It would need to be highly centralized and probably still authoritarian to keep cohesion but still very different from to its aesthetics of its imperial days. Nor would the world have had Orthodox, Western and Islamic successor civilizations.

Exactly this. Romans who lived during the Punic Wars would have very little in common with Romans who lived under Diocletian or Constantine. It gets more removed every century from that norm.

I have written such an alternate history scenario in which the Western Roman Empire could be saved by an alliance of some old families under a guy I named Silvianus Torquatus Maximianus who was successful when his predecessor Maiorianus failed. Fast forward through history and all its crisis: Rome managed to become a super power again and rules the most parts of the Mediterranean sea as well as provinces like Honcong, Goa, Florida, Arizona, California, Pacifica and Africa Australis Romanum. It is a member of the NATO but isn't very active in that alliance. They care more about their own alliance with former provinces in form of the Foederatium Romanum which functions as a mixture between the British Commonwealth and the European Union plus the NATO. My main objective was when I started that project in the mid 1990s to figure out how a Roman Empire with at least partially the ancient mind set would react to modern crisis like climate change, terrorism, the two world wars of the 20th century, what such Romans would think about the Nazi regime in Germany and of course about all the stupidity from the political fringes from the right AND the left. I wrote about 180 pages of the alternate history and about 480 pages of the detailed world building of the Roman Empire in its present day state with its 93 provinces, a territory of a bit more than nine million square kilometers without the Antarctica territory and its 725 million inhabitants from a dozen major and hundreds of mid-sized to smaller nationalities. Here are some characteristics of my alternate Rome: - Like in real Italy Italian became the dominant language but the Romans remained Romans. Latin in its ecclesiastical form is still used at the emperors court, in the western Church and in the military as well as in some highly traditionalist aristocratic families. - After the reconquest of the eastern parts formerly part of the Eastern Roman empire from the Ottomans, the Hellenic Romans retuned back to the now only Roman Empire again and retained their status as full Roman citizen. A Gaius Ovidius Severus, a Roberto Francesco Lodola, a Dmitris Theofilis Maggidis are fully equally Romans. - In the old aristocratic families, the old Latin names still are dominating like from the Gens Severi which could be saved by the Gens Iuliana when the then Iulian Pater Familias managed to save Geta from the murder attempt by Caracalla. - In 2010, the Romans finalized the reconquest of some lost Eastern Roman parts after the war with Turkey after a conflict between Octavius Secundus and then Turkish prime minister Recep Erdogan escalated. They took back Constantinopolis, Trapezunt and some other areas. - When Imperator Caesar Octavius Secundus ascended to the throne in 1981 CE when he was 25 years old, he as a fan of the classical pronunciation of Latin ordered the court to revert to this pronunciation. - In October 2021 after the most severe phase of the Corona Pandemics Octavius Secundus announced that he intends to resign from his position as the emperor on October 2036 making room for his son. In October 2036, Octavius Secundus will be 80.5 years old. - Most cities retained or got back the old ancient names when Rome reconquewred the Mediterranean sea again from the 15th century CE onward. - The military still uses the Legions, Cohorts, Manipels, Centurae as military units. - The service uniform looks like the real history Italian ones but there are no Carabinieri, their duties are executed by the Pretorians who wear an uniform like the ones from the real world Carabinieris when paroling the streets. - In their military parades (pompa militare) they wear historical uniforms too like the lorica segmentata, the lorica squamata, the one used in the 16th century which looks like from Spain which never existed in my alternate history. - The Roman military organized the whole Earth into 13 military provinces even if they are outside of the empire like with the US-American military organization. Each of those military regions is commandeered by a Magister Militare, the newest of these military regions is the military province of Eastern Europe as a reaction to the Russian war of aggression against the Ukraine which is highly supported by Rome. - They wear modern 21st century style fashion made by the fashion labels Armani, Iulianus Fashion Corporatus. - Like with the real world Italians they love to dress sharply and very well, --> Bella figura. - The two dominant religions are the western Catholic church with about 30 % followers and the Cultus Deorum, the older religion with about 30.5 % followers. The eastern Hellenic church has about 11 % followers and the remaining 28.5 % are divided among other resurfaced ancient religions as well as other Christian fractions plus some Jewish Romans and a tiny Muslim Roman community. - Aside of the ancient cuisine still available in some specialized restaurants, modern Romans have a cuisine which strongly resembles the real Italian, so, they have pizza and pasta, picata, saltim-bocca, insalata mista, etc. "Luigi e Claudio Pizzeria" or "Hernando & Stefanos American BBQ" can be found. - To show that they belong to an almost three millennia old country, many Roman companies uses old Latin for their names. - They have modern cars like from Masserati or Severus Autocurrus Corporatus (which switches to electric cars) or Dmitri-Mobile S.a.r.L. or Taurinorum-Mobile INC. - Of course they have a modern computer industry like that from the company Severus Electronica Corporatus which is the Roman Empires equivalent of the US-American Apple Inc. - The Romans have their own social media networks like EgoVideoSum (a RU-vid like video hosting platform) or ArsPhotographica (a kind of a more sophisticated Instagram). - The cities looks like real world Italian cities mixed with some elements from New York City. The newly found city of Leptis Magna Creek east of the older mega city of Leptis Magna has a Dubai style of architecture mixed with some more traditionalist ones. - In Rome itself due to the 6th century Gothic Wars never happened in my scenario all ancient buildings, the temples, the basilicae, the Circus MAximus, the old imperial Fori are fully intact since empoeror Silvianus Torquatus Maximianus ordered the full restoration of all old temples. He even gave an imperial order that the old religion needs to be tolerated. - Currently, the Roman Empire has three space stations in the Earths orbit, the PAX-ROMANA (the civilian states operated one), the PARADISO DELLE STELLE (a privately operated by the Solaris Corporatus Nuovo) and ARES-VNVS, the military space station. In the night sky, you could see them as three points arranged as the corners of an even triangle. - The empire even has a permanently manned moon base. - On April 2024 they start their permanent Mars settlement program when the launch window for an interplanetary flight to Mars is good enough.

More realistic would be those Instant Payday Loan shark shops called "Justin-Time Solidi - Trust us, He's the G"

@@michaelstaengl1349 I love alternate history, but it doesn't really make sense to have major deep time changes and have other modern events largely unchanged. You're not going to get a Third Reich when the First Reich was an attempt to revive the empire that in your scenario didn't fall in the first place, for instance. I do like the idea of exploring how a modern Roman (or Byzantine) state would look in the modern world, either after a history of constant independence or one more like China where you had periods of foreign conquest that resulted in the absorption or expulsion of the conquerors. I do like the theme of mixing classical and modern cultural elements, exploring what would survive (or be revived, the way some elements of classical architecture came back between the renaissance and 19th century) and what would be replaced permanently.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-emjF6iI5Wc0.html If anybody has doubts!

I wondered about that myself, but if you tell the average person that they are going to look at you like you're crazy. To be honest there was definitely some Slavic and native Balkan influence as well though.

yup, that´s what crossed my mind 4 hours ago... I paused the video at min 13.32 and had to search for pictures (internet, books that I have, etc), as I had to be sure that my imagination is not playing wild. It doesn´t. And not only on menswear, but on woman´s also. It´s fascinating how some of the imbrodery follows almost the same rules. I could talk hours about it, but - don´t worry - I won´t, I´m not an expert and duty calls somewhere else :D And yes, one can see the influence all over the Balkans (plus the Slavic and Turkish influences, there are 1700+/- we are talking about). Ty for your comments!

@@stancalung5186 yeah but we keep on insisting on the clothing of the Dacians on the column. We're so narrow-minded sometimes..

@@splogy123 there are influencens too, to be honest, but not soooo many as one would love 😁😅

i would agree partially. But I dont think it has to do with fighting tactics going from tight to loosened formations. On the Contrary, when the roman empire started to employ wide spread cavalry units (and also faced foreign forces employing mostly cavalry) they had to transform their infantry from a shock infantry type (Pilum, Gladius) to a unit that can effectively repell horse charges. this was done by replacing the pilum with a longer spear. spears favor phalanx-like, tight formations. the sword (gladius) has lost its position as an integral part of infantry tactics i.e. throwing the pilum and then crash into the enemy formation with your gladius. Now you need a sword that is useful when shit hits the fan i.e. when your formation broke and you find yourself now in a chaotic melee.

That's flat out wrong and based on an already debunked myth that simply won't die away on the internet: 1-The first wrong assumption is legionaries supposedly using the spatha as primary weapon. Easily falsifiable when considering the the actual primary weapon they switched to was the SPEAR, which requires soldiers to actually form TIGHTER formations to maximize the surface area covered by spear tips, capitalizing on their quirk of not needing as much space as swords to be used. The Spatha was relegated to being a side arm. 2-The second wrong assumption is that Principate Era legionaries fought in extremely tight formations and only used gladii to thrust. In the contrary, and we know thanks to several sources such as Polybius, Caesar and Vegetius, that legionaries needed at least three square feet of surface to properly fight. Legionary formations weren NOT slow moving box squares of shields with swords poking out, but dynamic and fast squares that could outmaneuver other infantry kinds and easily switch between projectiles and melee combat. You cannot have legionaries throwing a pilum far away from the second+line, rotate with the rank behind or fighting if they're too tight. 3-The third wrong assumption is the Gladius not being used to cut, which we know from the descriptions of the Punic wars and experimental testing to be bollocks. Gladii could cut very well and was feared for it, ita mode of use being primarily in very tight swings. Spatha, on the other hand, could very well be used to thrust, much like later medieval arming swords. Nothing suggests it was only used from wide swings. 4-Spear and shield combat was not a barbarian way of fighting. It was the way Greek Hoplites and the Republican Romans fought themselves before and after introducing the Gladius and Pilum being overall the most used heavy infantry configuration used in Antiquity by civilized peoples among Egyptians, Assyrians, Persians....etc. 5-Fighting barbarian raids implied also fighting horsemen, which moved way faster than infantry and were a major hazard for unescorted Roman infantry wielding only swords and javelins. Cavalry was increasingly more armored and sported bigger horses, which required Rome to upgrade its own way of fighting.

Other than the Spatha, the Romans also uses Axes and Maces to deal with increasingly heavily armoured opponents.

@@MrAlepedroza You could even go so far as saying the spear is the default melee arm of war throughout all history until the end of the pike and shot era.

They start to use more compact formations than before in fact.

That was also certainly a factor, although I doubt that it was ever really warm in northern Britannia and Gallia :) But yes, climate certainly also must have had some sort of influence, possibly explaining the higher prevalence of trousers. Although I have the suspicion that the cultural influence played a greater role.

Also likely spurred the southward Germanic migrations.

I have wore flip flops and shorts on snowy days , I get lazy and don’t wanna get all dress up of only going for a few minutes 😮😢

Romans: It's cold in the Middle East

Practicality and fashion is so much more likely.They wore it even in very hot regions.

Hard to take you seriously with that profile picture 😂

​@@bobflemming100 okay "Bob" tell us how great Russia is

@@greyfells2829 I have no strong feelings about Russia one way or another..because I don’t believe the Msm narrative about them. It’s hard to take someone serious who’s from Brazil and virtue signals for Ukraine..or Russia for that matter.

@@bobflemming100Hard to take seriously someone like you who value profile photo more that what he actually said.

Thank you so much for your kind words and for your generous donation. Every single dollar helps, so thanks again

They did have special clothing for warm comfort even in classical times.They knew(and used)large winter scarfs and gloves,cloaks a led wrappings and of course also extra tunics.

There was of course the famous Birrus Britannicus, a woolen garment which as the name suggests, originated in Britannia, and was well known across the Roman Empire.

Just a reminder that lions lived in Greece and that the Greeks had something to wear in ancient Greece

Romans: We love the cultures of the Greeks and the Middle East

It was actually germans who adopted spathae from Romans. Roman infantry adopted spathae in the end of 2 century, Germans adopted spathae from Romans in the 3 century

@@paveltukeev4832 wasnt the sparta, a longer one hand sword, very well known with the Germans even BC? I am pretty sure the Germans who Julius Caesar fought during his campaings didnt use gladii.

@@juanzulu1318 no, Celts used spathae, Germans, according to Tacitus, used spears. All German spathae in archaeology appears in 3 century and there were either directly bought from Romans (Roman stamps on the blades) or were inspired by them.

@@paveltukeev4832 hmm, ok. But I would suggest that we should not assume that Germans didnt know the concept of a sword. If this premise is true what type did they use then? I would conclude that it was most probably a longer one like that of the celts rather than a short sword of the gladius type.

@@juanzulu1318 with low industrial base long swords are very expensive, available only to the German nobles, insignificant minority in comparison to common freeholders, having only shields, spears, javelins and knifes. And even nobility fought with spears in shieldwall, switching to swords only if spears or formation was broken

Thanks again, you donated twice, I feel very honored and grateful. May the light of Majorian shine on you eternal ! All the best and have a wonderful day, Sebastian.

Thank you for the great education.@@Maiorianus_Sebastian

As somebody studing history of Roman clothing on daily level-major difference was(if limited to the fall of the west)introduction of long sleeved tunics(tunica manicata or also dalmatica) and pants.Old styles and new one lived next to each other.Pants and long sleeved tunics turned to dominant fashion but even older styles were still around and are still depicted in great detail even several centuries after fall of the west.But it wasn't just pants and lenght of sleeves but also style of decoration what had changed. Decoration of traditional ancient Roman tunic was quite simple-if there was any decoration at all,it usually consisted only from two vertical stripes going from shoulders down to the knee level.During early 2nd century new more elaborate style started to influence Roman taste from the region of Syria.Stripes get shorter,eventually reaching just below the chest area(though variations in lenght existed) and started to be ended with typical arrowhead shape."Skirt"of tunic also often had it but lover and upper stripes were separated now(no longer one continual stripe).During 3rd century this further evolved,stripes get wider and started to include even inner decorations.By early 4th century it already morphed to typical late antiquity version of very wide stripes with very complex inner decoration.It is well attested in both art and archeology that also older simple style of just two vertical stripes continued in use too however-it is still present in medieval Roman art up to 11th century.Further significant fashion changes came during 6th century.

@@paprskomet so you're telling me some people in 10th century rome dressed like people from 1st century rome?

@@diprogamer3294 yes.

Excellent point, the "Roman Warm Period" was ending and it got colder. Weather will definitely change fashion. Sebastian actually covered this in "Did Climate Change Cause the Fall of Rome" or something like that.

...and yet so many people(from my experience most of them!)imagine them as "always looking the same",after all in films they do.

Mighty knights

@@عليياسر-ف4ن9ك You mean Cataphracts. Rome learned of them from Carrhae the hard way.

@@TheNEOverse correct

The secret to their downfall?

@@karlscher5170 They would have fallen by the time they copied the fucking Greek phalanx then.