Why are Ajax and Tottenham Hotspur historically "Jewish" clubs? 

I think one or two MPs, even PM David Cameron had to give us the benefit of their wisdom on the subject.

I think the club asked the fans not to chant Yids any longer.

@@jurgencuypers8350 It wasn't the club. It was the FA and the CPS. The fans refused and the club stood by them.

The club began a fan consultation over the use of the term "Yid" in 2019. This was interrupted due to Covid but eventually they reached a wishy-washy conclusion as follows: As a Club, we always strive to create a welcoming environment that embraces all our fans so that every one of our supporters can feel included in the matchday experience. It is clear the use of this term does not always make this possible, regardless of context and intention, and that there is a growing desire and acknowledgment from supporters that the Y-word should be used less or stopped being used altogether. We recognise how these members of our fanbase feel and we also believe it is time to move on from associating this term with our Club. The adoption of the Y-word by our supporters from the late 1970's was a positive response to the lack of action taken by others around this issue. An increasing number of our fans now wish to see positive change again with the reduction of its use, something we welcome and shall look to support. We acknowledge that any reassessment of the use of this term needs to be a collaborative effort between the Club and its fans. We shall be working to further outline the historical context of the term, to explain the offence it can cause and to embrace the times in which we now live to show why it can be considered inappropriate regardless of context.

I received the letter from the club, it was in reference to a complaint from a legal body, the Black Solicitors Network. So it was organised external activism and THFC responded.

I think you mean 1860 Munich. Bayern was the "Judenklub" of Munich, due to their president and coach before 1933 being Jewish.

And most of the players ​@@jbc17c

Bayern is/ was a Jewish clubs in the 30’s and 40’s

In the late 30's Bayern was still referred by ordinary Germans as "the Jew club"!

Wrong. Bayern had a jewish president that was forced to resign by the nazis. And the emblem change was also forced... Very superficial take on a complicated and sad history

😶

The National Socialists (and others) referred to Bayern as the Judenklub I think primarily because the club was run by Jewish president Kurt Landauer from 1913 until 1951. He was briefly sent to a concentration camp but amazingly released after a few months after money changed hands. Landauer was instrumental in restarting the Bundesliga after the war.

Mainly because of Kurt Landauer and the fact that 1860 were supported and sponsored by the Nazis.

So is Mainz, right?

@@Drtoe2ner you may say play after war. Bundesliga did not exist until the 63/64 season

Don’t forget about Solomon

I died after seeing the video lmao...

the Ajax have songs about the jews as if they are supermens, if I would be a jew I would be proud of it

@@JR-mh8vn you could say *ubermenschen*

Amazing comment😂😂😂😂

"spurs ultras"

Reminds me of gay people reclaiming the British cigarette and Qu-een slurs.

ngl but the dutch jewish fans who fly the israeli flag over imho are not real fans, you can't just fly the flag of a nation which has committed so many atrocities against the palestinian ppl doesn't sit right with me.

I like your grandfather (I’m A Feyenoord supporter)

@@ogome2927 agreed

​@ogome2927 Did those "atrocities" randomly happen or were they the inevitable consequence of multiple genocide attempts committed by the arabs? 7 arab countries attacked a tiny group of poorly armed holocaust survivors, and when the arabs lost and the consequences of war happened, the arabs called it an "atrocity". Nowadays known as "nakba". It's really curious how the atrocities committed by the arabs and the consequences are always blamed on the jews. Were the nazi inspired pogroms known as Farhud, which happened in Iraq before israel was created, still to blame on the jews and on the not yet born state of Israel? And when the Arab League then attacks the survivors of those persecutions, who escaped to Israel, since they dared to defend themselves, they are now the target of these slanderous accusations of "atrocities".

Another example would be Israel, yes other groups inhabit the country alongside jewish people. But is it antisemitic to call israel a jewish state?

It's an interesting point about 'yid' and slurs, if we shorten the name of some races/nationalities it's seen as a slur (Pakistani as a prime example) yet for others there's not an issue (for example 'Scots' for Scottish people). I guess it comes down to whether the word has been used as an instrument of oppression (like 'paki' was/is in the UK).

@user-lx1lu8qr7e yeah it's complex, it's all about context. If you read literature from before the 19th century, even the word "Jew" is used as a slur, to call someone greedy. I guess "yid" Is somewhat in the middle between "paki" and "scot". The way this works is quite fascinating, really. You can see it especially with afro Americans who use the n-word among themselves, yet will punch in the face any white man who uses it.

⁠@@user-lx1lu8qr7eit’s an interesting point but I think Pakistan is the only real outlier, the reason it can be seen as derogatory is because it’s used by people who aren’t Pakistani to describe people who are, I can’t think of another offensive example with any other country apart from maybe Japan but even then it’s rarely used in an offensive way. The English language has a habit of shortening alot of words and when you are being derogatory to another nationality, your likely to show less respect by not using the full word

@@ToTheMaxGaming1 Yeah in the U.K Pakistan is definitely the outlier but other regions have similar. 'Spic' is a pretty offensive term for hispanic people in the U.S, also 'heeb' is used in a derogatory fashion against hebrews, obviously these terms aren't widely used in the U.K but using them just as an example.

@@user-lx1lu8qr7e you’re right they’re both bad, they’re just never used in the uk (or at least I’ve never seen them used) as our Jewish and Hispanic population is very small in comparison to the US

i'm sorry but the use of israeli flags that some of the jewish community of football fans that bring to the ground is never on, just wrong knowing what we know with the palestine situation.

@@ogome2927 Is it fuck, Am Yisrael chai. the Jewish community overwhelmingly supports Israel, you cannot separate the two just so you can stratify Jews in to good and bad.

@@ogome2927 is it also not ok for spurs fans to bring south korean flags to games? Manor Soloman, while he has been injured for much of the season, is one of our players and an Isreali international. in the stadium u will see at least one flag for each of the nationalities in our team, while I would normally agree to try and keep politics out of football that has become increasingly duificult with the general politicization of society, and Isreali flags have been in the stands for at least a decade consistently, they arent being flown in support of the cirrent situation but as reprisentative for Jews in general, just as the isreali flag is often paired with Hebrew on apps and menus.

​​​​@@ogome2927So do you also condemn Feyenoord supporters for using Nigeria flags? pretty sure that Nigeria is killing Christians, oh wait... that conflict isn't about Jews, so its not important for you. Let people do what they want, Ajax supporters always had a strong connection with Jews and Israel, they are also friends with a club from Israel (Maccabi Tel Aviv). Nothing wrong with waving a Israeli flag.

​@@Dutchology exactly

Dude, theres allot of implication for what a hissing sound could mean You actually think people would hear hissing noises...and immediately go "why are we immitating the noise gass showers make? Ooooh theyre jews!?"

People perceive that but that doesn't mean it's true.

​@@sie4431Oh come on now. When you make that noise towards a Jewish person, there's only one reason why.

Not true.

Never heard a hissing sound lmao. Stop making stuff up

Not quite. The club did not have specific a Jewish supporters base, but the neighbourhood Watergraafsmeer, where Ajax stadium De Meer was located, had a lot Jewish inhabitants. Fans of visiting clubs would walk towards the stadium through the 'jewish' neighbourhood. That is how the connection came..

Same pretty much for Spurs and having owners over the years with names like Levy, Lewis, Sugar, Scholar, Silver only reinforced the impression.

Inb4 Spuds come along to say "because Arsenal are shit in the Champions league".

Gabber, Dennis Bergkamp... a people of culture

I'm not sure if Bunnikside(FC Utrecht) or Vak S(Feyenoord) started calling Ajax a Jewish club. What did happen is that Bunnikside hung anti-Semitic banners on the fences somewhere in 1981 when they had to play against Ajax. The original hafa nagila song was sung by the Ajax supporters (F-side) from the stands around 1983 long before the party animals even existed. Just before the CL semi-final match Spurs-Ajax, the older Ajax hooligans had a friendly conversation with the Spurs hooligans until suddenly out of nowhere a group of younger Ajax hooligans challenged and attacked the Spurs supporters. Then the atmosphere changed big time.

@@theallrounder1578 Never heard of it being sung that far back, but I could be wrong in that case. I did hear about Spurs being attacked, I also know they cleaned house after they did tho, Ajax could not take them on.

@@AFCAUltra The songs of the F-side in the 80s were creative and trendsetting. Unfortunately, that has not been the case for more than 27 years. All stands/sides in the Netherlands sing the same melodies, annoying and not creative at all. I don't know if the current Y*** army is that much stronger than Ajax (the old generation together with the current one), the difference between the two will not be that big compared to 40/45 years ago, but maybe i am wrong. The times that the English hooligans(age 54+) from various clubs were unbeatable seems to be over.

Because they stole the identity and thats why cambuur is anti frysk

Well, big city vs smaller city(In Heereveens case a town). The big city will always have less feeling with the regional identity.

Because leeuwarden, being the capitol, is slightly more cosmopolitan then the rest of friesland

Because leeuwarden, being the capitol, is slightly more cosmopolitan then the rest of friesland

Pretty obvious when your colours are literally the Frisian flag, including the red 'pompebleden' (waterlilly leafs). Aside from that, in the capital Leeuwarden not proper Frisian is spoken , but the more watered down 'stadsfries' ('city frisian') .

Bradford used to have a very large jewish community. There's still a synagogue there I think

@@justelliot4870 Bradford is a fairly big city at over half a million people, so I would expect no less. It also had an area called Little Germany, which had many Jews among that community according to a Google search. Leeds is bigger at over three quarters of a million people, despite being the younger city. It was also a train stop between Hull and Liverpool for refugees from pogroms on their way to ships to US. Some of them saw the chance to stay and make a living, in a rapidly expanding area, giving it the larger Jewish community.

Manny Cousins, Lesley Silver, we’re both great Leeds United chairman and Jewish 💙🤍💛

yh i'm not from bradford but the community that majority of the immigrants from bradford come from are mirpuris who comes azad kashmir located near pakistan, that's acc interesting tho never knew there was beef with that one i assume that beef must escalted rn with a lot of us mirpuris being palestinian supporters and with some of us in that community sadly being quite anti semitic and targeting jews

@@ogome2927 It was not between the actual communities. It was football fans shouting names at each other, allegedly.

your older more successful brothers :-P

like fishing

​@@imascrew6218 Wouldn't be hard

​@@imascrew6218It's not Tottenham's fault their owner is allergic to silverware

talmud

All you need to do is stop being offended and you'll be free from that "experience" if you want to.

Back here in the Netherlands they are being searched up and harrased in real time.​@@martinseptimryden7272

109

​@@martinseptimryden7272 that's not a great argument.

Ooh, I did not know this! I'm a Jewish American football fan and I think I just found a new team to play as in Football Manager lol

Based MTK

@@neres5795 What does that mean?

@@ThePetekA it's like legit

@@ThePetekA Terminally online people, like myself, sometimes refer to good or cooler things as "based", althought I would not advise using it that much, since us rather childish.

Damn thats interesting, atleast its clear who to cheer for, go superjews.

Arsenal and Chelsea have lots of Jewish fans tho

I wonder where eintracht Frankfurt landed. My dad was from there and a rabid eintracht fan. But he was Jewish and had to get the hell out of there.

Oh geez I wonder what happened to those numbers of Jewish people who lived in Europe back in the 20s and 30s, what a mystery /s

As far as I'm aware some Antwerpen lads were very close with Feyenoord's firm back in the day and so always objected to the Joden label. I believe the relationship between the two groups has really soured in the last 10-15 years though.

Yes, I think the history was 'resurrected', sometime in the 90s. Let's face it, Spurs were a massive club in the 70s and 80s. No one mentioned anything about their Jewish identity until Baddiel and Skinner in the 90s.

@@roginkthey really weren’t that huge in the 70s and 80s

3 UEFA cup finals winning 2. 3 FA cup finals winning 2. 3 league cup finals winning 2. During the 70s and 80s shows we were a big enough team.

@@chuckyx934 That really doesn’t make you ‘massive’

@@jodaco3869 Agreed. The Swedish club IFK Gothenburg won the UEFA Cup twice in the 80s, which obviously was a great feat, but no one would ever call them a "massive" club during that period. The same goes for Spurs, they've never been massive and never will be.

Loser

None of it should be ‘celebrated’ look at the fucking state of Amsterdam, it’s the reason people want little mustached man back

Correct.

Very much still is. An official Jewish supporters group called MeshuggenOs was launched a few months ago. I'm on the committee of the Orient LGBTQ+ supporters group, and of the 8 committee members three are Jewish.

Why not start a Leyton Orient Jewish LGBTQ plus committee. ​@@luxford60

@@luxford60 I thought it was still true of the O's, but I didn't want to jinx it, if you know what I mean. BTW, I'm not LGBTQ+ myself (ok, maybe have a touch of D!), but I wonder who are the most accepting of LGBTQ+ fans?

My uncle is Jewish & a Leyton Orient supporter.

Ja

Yes

Did he split a bill recently?

Thats why Schalke and BvB are the best

@@Mergor_X Definitively not. Dortmund is the No.2 and Schalke is in the 2. Bundesliga But that is not the Reason why your Statement is utter Crap.

Xitians you meant madrid and Barcelona right which English club is xitians

Love their beer there!

Yeah I’ve read there’s no trace of any Jews or Synagogues in England/Britain before 1066. Then William the conqueror invited French speaking Jews to England because they were ‘good for business’.

You mean Jewish people are more legitimatly English that the so called Anglo-Saxons racists are obsessed with? (You know the rulers of England that gave way to their own dark ages?) Oh god that's a good laugh I needed that.

At Spurs away matches hissing noises are quite common, is that good old 'banter'?

@@LeslieDiablerets Ok I am not talking about that,but I think there is always gonna be morons you should answer them back not ban it.

@@yakov95000 like the calling us hook nose?

Banned because of being jewish?

North London as in the right side of the Thames LOL.

I live across the road from green gully and didn't know they were called Ajax back in the day. My wife is maltese, her family used to be involved with st george fc. Thank you for sharing the info.

There was for years a Jewish club in Melbourne. Hakoah, Disbanded for lack of support,

concentrate on your own jews - chelshit fans all they do is MOUTH OFF !

Yid just means a jew in yiddish

Bullshit!

MTK Budapest is a Jewish club’😊

My dad was from Frankfurt and a huge eintracht fan. Also Jewish.

Guess

@@Mergor_X considering every place that expelled them experienced a golden age afterwards says something.

That's because Celtic (and Irish nationalists in general) support palestine

Yeah, most that do that won't be doing it because any sort of longstanding connection between the various communities that follow Rangers and Judaism. It'll literally be because there's a section of the Celtic support that's pro-Palestine

I think I have a memory of reading that Third Lanark were the Jewish club in Scotland, but I might be misremembering that

Rangers, not 'Glasgow Rangers'.

@@blah......4970 Isn't there still a protestant-catholic rivalry between Rangers and Celtic? Dutch protestants traditionally tend to a strong connection with the Old Testament's chosen people. Catholics have a tainted history with jews. It would have very much surprised me if it had been the other way around.

thing I love most is being a yid!

Great club.

Hssssssssssssssss

Hava Nagila is included in the theme of MTK Budapest. Another Jewish club no one mentions’

They sung Ronny Oh Ronny Ronny Oh Ronny Ronny Oh Ronny Rosenthal YID Ronny oh Ronny Ronny to the hava nagila

​@@ThePetekAshut the hell up with your stupid insignificant club no one cares about

it used to be a downloadable ringtone from the spurs website years ago when that was a big thing. they eventually got rid of it