Well they often list HOA amenities and a listing amenity too, so it cuts both ways. Both are valid search terms for people looking for specific things. Say someone who doesn't want an HOA vs one who wants one with a community pool etc.
We didn't want an HOA but our realtor ended up "accidentally" showing us a great house in one, and we had to turn it down because of that. When then told our realator that if they showed us a house in an HOA again they wouldn't be our realtor anymore.
When my husband and I bought a house about ten years ago, my one and only red line was 'no HOA'. I was willing to compromise or cave on everything else, but not that. And that almost wound up being too much, because it was so hard to find houses in non-HOA neighborhoods. I suspect that HOAs are not as popular as this video is suggesting. It's just that most people aren't anti-HOA to the extent that I was. A couple years after we moved in, my husband got really sick, and because I'm asthmatic and allergic to everything (and was already keeping everything else clean), I couldn't do yard work, and he couldn't do yard work, and so our yard went to shit. We've mostly reclaimed it, now, but my 'no HOA or we stay in an apartment those are the choices' attitude wound up looking pretty prescient.
IDK why people like HOA’s. Seems like owning a home without owning one. My uncle just bought a home. “No HOA” was on the top of his prerequisites list.
Condos and townhomes are crucial inputs which can helps us densify our cities. Unfortunately, they pretty much have to have an HOA though since all of the owners jointly own the exterior of the building.
Good luck. We bought a house in a nice suburb that was not in an HOA, until the city decided it was too big to do maintenance anymore and forced HOAs on each neighborhood. Just as interest rates are getting near 10% so the market is dying
Step 1: Join HOA Step 2: Become a board member with friends Step 3: Enforce the rules very strictly Step 4: Cause so much annoyance and convince people to disband the HOA and turn over public right of way to the city.
It could work, but only if the city is wiling to take ownership and accept responsibility for maintenance and repairs - and the potentially high cost of insurance - for the HOA's roads, sidewalks, landscaped medians, often expensive monument signage (sometime with statement pieces like fountains, lakes, etc.) and other "common areas." I've seen cities refuse to accept roads and other common areas and force an election that would form a special "improvement district" that levees higher taxes on the property within the HOA areas. If the district isn't approved, roads simply stop being maintained. If voters agree to form the special taxing district, it can resulted in property owners within the former HOA paying much higher taxes than other homeowners within the city while at the same time losing control of their formerly private roads, clubhouses, parks and other community amenities. In other instances, I've seen cities take over neighborhoods and disband HOAs and then do such a shoddy job maintaining the streets, landscaping, and common areas that property values plummet. Too often, once-beautiful and exclusive parks, swimming pools, clubhouses, and golf courses end up closed, fenced off, and derelict, or worse yet, are sold to a private company which does only the bare minimum of maintenance and then charges admission or changes the use completely (such as from childrens' playgrounds to adult softball fields or miniature golf-go cart- batting cage facilities) which drastically changes the feel of the area and creates noise, trash, traffic and parking problems. While it typically is very expensive to own property in an HOA-governed development, the ability to control HOA facilities and limit use to only homeowners and their guests can keep neighborhoods exclusive, and keep crime low and property values high. This is especially important when HOA facilities include private beaches, marinas, boat launch ramps, parks and green space, golf courses, clubhouses, fitness centers, and the like. It's sad but all too true that people do not want their fitness center to become popular with homeless people who can barely afford the $30 monthly fee and use the locker rooms and showers as their only bathing facilities. HOAs can be costly and a pain in the butt, but they do result in pretty and well-maintained neighborhoods where homes retain their value better than city- or county-maintained areas.
@@jmccoomber1659 To me its sounds like mix of communism and capitalism straight out of hell. You are forced to pay lots of money, for things you would never use(you named them - Clubhouses, golf courses, marinas etc.) while having no say it how things are run and being forced to follow strict rules. At least in normal cities you are paying for schools etc. that makes sense, here you pay for luxus that you never use.
Exactly! What City Beautiful did NOT mention is that some places in the USA your choices are to live in an HOA or be homeless. There is no in-between. We don’t choose to live here because we want too. We do because there are absolutely no other options.
Yup, most new housing is built by developers who buy up huge blocks of land, then create an HOA that anyone buying a house has to agree to, and design it in a way that makes it practically impossible to minimize or dissolve the HOA. I think it does make sense to have an HOA for maintaining common places, but its power should be limited to those common places and payment should be voluntary.
@@TheRealE.B. But, there is no such thing where I live! In many states/ counties/ cities in the USA, there is no such thing as a “walkable neighborhood.” Nor, do we have a choice to live someplace that does not have an HOA. It, literally, does NOT exist where I live!
HOA only makes sense for an entire apartment building/complex where heavier maintenance of elevators and complex machineries are needed, and to govern behaviors that will effects the neighbors you share your walls/floors/ceiling with.
@@RadicalEduction Tenant unions tend to be for renters, and urban HOAs tend to be for apartment or condo owners. Then there's cooperative housing, where tenants who would normally be priced-out of ownership own their building collectively.
@@RadicalEductionI'm just making a point that HOA doesn't make sense for individual houses. Offering a club house and lawn care should be an opt in thing, while road maintenance and such should be left to the city.
I grew up in an HOA and it was fine until one person would inevitably get upset over something and make it their mission to make the other person miserable. That obviously happens in non-HOA communities too, but it felt my like there was a sort of 'secret police' with everyone telling on other people over any little infringement. The whole neighborhood just felt sterile too. I'm glad to be out, living in an interesting neighborhood with lots of variety.
One important thing you mentioned is the sterility of such neighborhoods. They have almost zero character and they're dead. Why would anyone wanna live in a place like that?
@@Sedgewise47 it's definitely subjective. Some people like HOAs. Some people like eating shit. It's called coprophagia. Should we force people to eat shit or join an HOA? Obliviously not. That would be illegal.
There are a lot of good HOAs, hence the actual numbers you see. Think of an ideal HOA as a small rural town that all agrees to maintain property values, keep up the community, keep things clean and safe. Yes some are bad, just like some small rural towns/cities are bad, but some are good too.
@A Z he did, and just because those arguments were provided didn't mean I was swayed in any differently. The value of a secondary "government" born out of further racism and elitism, to provide shared amenities, had not sound appealing before, not does it now. Perhaps I'm biased...
It's like people complaining about a Union, while pulling huge coin as a result of just that: an organized approach, usually run by VOLUNTEERS. We built a complex in Ca. but made sure the carports were open: no meth lab or grow op to burn the place down.
I live on a HOA in Ecuador. There's an added benefit here, as in other developing nations, the security. The delincuency on the streets is increasing everyday, and having ammenities like parks inside the HOA really makes a huge difference.
I lived in a subdivision with an HOA. Never again. We paid $10/month for no amenities. Was constantly harassed over little things. HOA's don't pay any of my mortgage, taxes, etc. They should never be allowed to tell you what you can do with your property.
@@Dwightstjohn-fo8kiHOAs are more like communism than like unions. It’s a concentration of power, like communism, into an unaccountable clique, while unions disperse power more evenly across an organization, keeping management in check
I think it's classism, like sunset laws. A group of folks get together and form laws that are worded to apply to all, but they are only enforced on the outgroup.
Bingo. If white trash come moving in next door one day, threatening the property values, the HOA will be used as a bludgeon for the boomers to use rather than simply taking up issues with their neighbors like adults or taking it to the city if it's a gross violation.
@@scottanos9981 Sure, any minority or outgroup will be pushed out. Philosophically there isn't necessarily wrong with curating your environment but I think it depends on how you do it. In alot of ways HOAs are just an extension of redlining
@@utterbullspit well racism is a form of classism if I'm understanding correctly? In this particular context of HOAs it would mainly be a way to maintain the ingroup outgroup preferences. Which could be based on many factors race being one. sure we all get those asshole neighbors from time to time and it can be nice to have the means to get certain folks out of the neighborhood but like anything it can and will be used for selfish and nefarious means.
Just bought my first home and one of my top requirements was no HOA. I don't want to own property just to give a bunch of Karens the power to decide what I get to do with it. Thankfully, the city I bought in has a lot of good houses available that aren't in an HOA as long as you shop in neighborhoods that are about 10+ years old.
Not only are older neighborhoods less likely to have HOAs but 9/10 times they simply have more beautiful homes, each with their own distinct character. Can't imagine living on a set of The Stepford Wives.
Nah. A condo has something like a shared pool, exterior building mantainence, landscaping and waste management. Etc. HOA in a single-family home neighborhood is just inviting Karen to fine you for having a unapproved set of blinds for your windows.
@@jeffc1347 "The neighborhood is nicer and better maintained". In otherwords, its sterile and the people living there are more concerned with aesthetics and property values than living life. Got it. 😕
My issue with HOAs is that they have potential to be super useful, but they rarely live up to that potential. 4 things which most homeowners could do in order to lower their carbon footprint are: Compost, have a small garden, plant yards which require no watering, and install renewable electricity generation. HOAs could help with all of these things. They could higher outside workers to manage the compost pile and garden so that everything doesn’t die when you go on vacation. They could relax their standards for “perfectly manicured grass lawns” in order to cut down on fertilizer and water use. And they could collectively bargain with a solar installer in order to get everyone a discount! But instead, we’re stuck with a bunch of HOAs who just care about the junk that was mentioned in that Reddit thread…
No thanks, don’t want to go through the work! I’d rather just throw everything away rather than spend my time sorting trash just to give it away for free to companies who profit from it. Plus, I love my gas powered equipment and my cars. You can keep your “solar” equipment. 🤣
Living in Florida I went out of my way to ensure I did NOT buy in an HOA community. It was quite frustrating how limiting that hard rule was for me, but I ended up quite happy in a non-HOA community. When I tell people my "dues" are $0, they get jealous. $260/month may be the average, but I know some people that pay as much as $900/month, just in HOAs!
Yeah we're on the water our hoa went from $660 in 2020 to-$960 in 2023. Bought our property for $210,000 our neighbors just bought there's 2022 (exact same lay out few upgrades) for $450,000
Apparently HOA's have the power to put a lien on your house for minor rule violations, which is absolutely ridiculous. I'll never live in an HOA if I can help it, unless their power over communities is significantly reined in.
That would be an exception rather than the rule, owned several properties all in HOAs and they usually send you several notices before even levying a fine, if they levy a fine and you don’t pay it, then it can turn into a lien. But towns and cities can also do this with code enforcement. It’s really rare. If you don’t want an HOA, hope you enjoy staring at your neighbors rusted RV with a ripped tarp covering it
@@sabretechv2all you proved is “that is the rule” the OP wasn’t claiming they instantly put the lien on your house, the simple fact they eventually do is the problem. Fact is it’s your property, and you should have the right to do what you please on it, which applies to all others neighbors. If you don’t like how your neighbor is treating their home. Fucking buy it and you can enforce whatever rule you want on your land. If you are not willing to do that, than mind your own damn business.
That’s the least of your problems, hoas have the power to evict you from your own house. I don’t understand how it’s worth the extra cost even tho you can use that extra money to do it yourself
I became disabled quadriplegic requiring the use of a wheelchair. I had to have ramps put in at each door so I could get in and out. My HOA has been fining me ever since despite knowing I am now disabled. I went to court and lost with the court saying the ADAl laws apply to places of "public" accommodation and that my home and my HOA are private places. I now have over $20,000 in HOA fines. If I sell and move, I lose a considerable amount of equity in my home due to the HOA fines that will have to be paid at closing. We have a cluster mailbox. I can not reach it from my wheelchair. I have to get other to get my mail. I put up a small mailbox next to my front door that can barely been seen from the road and matches the color of my house. The HOA is now fining me because of the mailbox next to my front door. THERE SHOULD BE A LIMIT TO AN HOA'S POWER AND ABILITY TO FINE. It violates the constitution's "due process" clause as I seemingly have no say in the matter and no way to contest it, and I believe since they are acting like a governmental organization, they are violating the "takings" clause as well. What's worse, the house across the street and down one house has trash in their yard, the lawn isn't moved often, resulting in knee high grass, broken down card are in their driveway with expired tags, and the various residents who come and go are either outside arguing all day and night or outside listening to music until midnight. That house doesn't have a single fine. THey've gotten ZERO nasty-grams from the HOA. HOA's are often political and divisive groups with selective enforcement.
A lawyer may take a case like that for no fee, what they may recover. There are absolutely federal laws protecting disabled people and accomodations. The hoa may owe you damages too. They will probably settle and remove the fees.
@@alb12345672 well I already lost in court, the court ruled the ADA is about "public" accommodation and my house and then HOA are "private" accommodations.
@@TexMexTraveler That sounds terrible. Appeal? This is not private, it is "housing." Why is it different from a builder saying I don't sell to people in wheelchairs. COuld also be something the media may get involved in.
In my opinion, those fines are theft. When I was growing up, there was a similar situation, where some people kept complaining about this one guy and finding ways to get him repeatedly fined over harmless infractions. It wasn’t an HOA, but city ordinances. The rumor was that the constant reporting and over-enforcement was racially motivated and some bigots didn’t want a black person running a business near theirs. He kept appealing to the city and saying that it was harassment aimed to drive him out of the city, and that the fines were ruining his life and destroying his business, but the city council kept ignoring him and enforcing the fines. The story sadly ended in multiple people losing their lives over this. The guy did wrong but I can understand his rage at the injustice, as he was harassed, stolen from, and pushed to his limit.
@@TexMexTraveler Also, you should contact the "Institute for Justice" They take cases like this to the supreme court. They do a lot of good work, they are on RU-vid.
I actually like my HOA. The dues are $40 per year, which goes towards maintaining the neighborhood signage, the retention pond, the sidewalks and streetlights. ... And that's about it. No Karens abusing their power to boss around residents. No nastygrams. No restrictions about landscaping. Instead of badgering people about that kind of stuff, neighbors just offer to help. What a concept!
Consider yourself lucky. Our's was annoying as hell. We always got letters for most dumbest things. We were threatened with fines because our 15 year old nailbox had faded too much and needed to be repainted black, because our grass wasn't cut every two weeks, or our bushes weren't trimmed right, etc. HOA's should be outlawed in all 50 states.
the chair of my neighborhood HOA, told me that renters don't need affordable housing and I can go live some place else. there's no reason why I should stay in my neighborhood where I've lived for 5 years now. (housing insecurity doesn't allow us to put down roots)
Hey, my Condo board told me the same thing after I pointed out that their new policy (which bans all electric vehicles including electric wheelchairs) violates two seperate laws! ...In a city where the average rent is nearly 3,000$ a month and minimum wage is 12$ an hour (and as a PhD candidate and TA, I earn minimum wage).
One thing people should really be more aware of, depending on the state, HOA dues and fees can be *foreclosed* ... I have even seen HOAs foreclose on properties in small claims court. People lose their homes over failure to pay dues/fines.
An HOA in Tennessee managed to force the county to pay it for HOA fees on a property that the county foreclosed on for non payment of property taxes. The level of power that HOAs have is truly astounding.
And they definitely deserve the right to do that. Some of the costs that are being paid for with the dues are common costs being borne by the entire community. You can't get away with not paying your share forever, and you would have known what you were getting into when you bought. It's the same as not paying property taxes.
@@koolmckool7039 NOT!! Anyone dumb enough to let the process of foreclosure happen over a $365 outstanding bill is an idiot and deserves whatever they get!!
It's possible to get rid of an HOA. That apparently happened in the neighborhood I live in. When we moved in, there was no HOA, but there's evidence that there used to be one, particularly in a covenant that was still attached to the area (which has also gone away for not being enforced for a long enough period of time). Based on the covenant, this HOA was probably not too bad, the covenant was only 3 pages long, two of those pages were acceptable fence styles and the other page was regarding acceptable locations for swamp coolers and RV parking. The city took over the pool and parks and seems to be doing a fine job maintaining them, and they hold swim meets at the pool on weekends in summer to cover the costs. I'll gladly deal with some crowded street parking ~6 days out of the year to not have to deal with an HOA.
Our camp forced by board couple ppl still trying sue get thrown out it was done illegally the 2 former board did it unlawfully. However since filed thru courts it CANNOT b undone unless 100% of camp agrees they don't want it, well the 2 thst did it won't agree so we stuck w/ it unless the 1s suing trying get reversed can get them arrested & courts take notice do something. So u can get it undone with 100% of ur h.o.a backing just letting u k . Good luck hope ur not like our case is.
@@hsauto589 If the question is for me, a subdivision in a suburb north of Denver, CO, USA. HOA was long gone by the time we moved in, covenant still attached to property but clearly had also not been enforced for years (many newer houses in the area had fence styles that were not approved in the covenant, for example) and the city came and removed the covenant community sign a couple years ago. My understanding of the laws here are that if a covenant isn't enforced for long enough, it goes away.
In Germany I know this kind of effect mostly at allotment garden areas. People that felt powerless for their whole life become leaders of the allotment garden area and finally they have some form of power... so you can only plant a certain amount of radish in your garden, because Erna, the head of planting council doesn't like them.
Oh, that’s silly! If you want to plant your whole garden allotment with radish, you should be able to. I lived in Germany once, and although I didn’t rent a Schrebergarten , and I know it’s not cheap to rent one.
HOAs are a no for me. I don’t like Caren telling me what to do. I don’t care if my neighbors have rainbow colored houses with shattered windows and overgrown lawns with rusty airplanes parked on them. Good for them. There are already city rules (like noise ordinances) and services provided.
Oh you don't even know. Had the city change the nuisance ordinances to be more in line with a neighboring HOAs. Strangely they couldn't produce the meeting minutes where the vote was taken. After years of griping about this, business are lobbying the government to change the ordinances back because they were starting to being fined too. Plenty of Karens in city government as well, but at least you can vote them out.
Step 1: Be a residential housing developer. Step 2: Use the cheapest materials and cheapest labor to churn out cheap houses. Step 3: Instill an HOA in your communities so owners of your cheap homes are forced to conduct constant maintenance on their low-quality homes. Step 4: Avoid your community looking like total cheap garbage for long enough to get more investors to buy into your next housing development. Step 5: Profit.
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We rent, but we still have to deal with the HOA. We get docked $35 anytime they notify the leasing company about a violation, even if we've already taken care of it 🙄.
HOA maintains the condos/houses but the problem is changing the rules AFTER a resident buys the house. I had a friend who had to move from his condo because of his job and started renting his place. A year later HOA changed the rules and said “renting is not allowed”. He was forced to sell his condo at a loss.
in canada, a change to a condo law requires 80% approval by law. if that did happen here it for sure wouldnt have happened. im guessing 50% voted for it, or a whole bunch of people didnt show up
But the HOA can't end a rent contract? They are not part of that contract. Also can they really do that or did just nobody sue them? A HOA might set rules about the building, but a renter is no building.
@@steemlenn8797 Bannning rentals is infact a very common HOA thing, and I'm sure is a reason some people like HOAs. They can also legally evict a tenant or force a landlord to evict a tenant. Provided the tenant broke a rule, which when the simple act of renting is not allowed it's pretty easy to find a rule they violated. HOA's, being that they are not government entities can do pretty much whatever they want as long as they have member support. They can tell you what color you can paint your house. Do you honestly think they wouldn't make sure they could keep out "undesirables".
@@naddarr1 But that is what the member of the HOA has agreed upon. If those rules change, the contract with a third party (the renter) should not be affected. That would be a violation of their free contract. It's like when the rules about paint get changed. If you say houses can only be paid black when it was white before, you can't fine them 2 minutes later for having non-black houses.
@@steemlenn8797 Well of course not you have to give the person time to repaint their house after which time they can then be fined. I'm not suggesting that they can change the rule to no longer allowing renters and then that evening they go kick out all the renters. What I am saying is that they can change the rules and then require the tenant to leave within 90 days. Or they can also change the rules and then once the lease agreement is up, they are usually yearly, you can no longer sign a new agreement as renting is no longer allowed. You act like evicting renters or not reupping the lease is some rare process. It happens every day in this country and for far more reasons then just having a missed payment.
I wonder how much these statistics are skewed by urban condos and similar owner-occupied housing with shared walls. Places like that need an HOA to be viable at all. I lived in such a condo in a building on the historical preservation register - the HOA made sure we stayed in compliance for historical preservation, handled exterior maintenance and upgrades, and so forth. They weren't perfect but effective at what they did. I cannot imagine wanting an HOA for a detached house. I only accepted one because I wanted to live downtown.
I was looking for a comment like this! I live in a condo building like this. Every unit is owner-occupied and we essentially pool our dues together to care for our roof, brick exterior, plumbing, and other aspects of the building that we have a shared responsibility for. It's pretty chill! But I totally agree that HOAs for free-standing homes are bad news.
At 5:33 you can read the abstract for the paper and it is clear about only recording single detached homes. Using a meta analysis would have been a better study. The real question of the study is their methodology. Do they survey head of house holds only, do they include children of the households, do they survey everyone one the household like grandparents? Surveying satisfaction with their HOA doesn't seem that interesting, it would be interesting to look at people in HOA's being happier, living longer, addiction, or other random statistics.
At that point a condo building is functionally an apartment complex and need the same "building & grounds" level management, although condos are probably better long term as you technically own a subsection of the building instead of simply occupying it. But for a more traditional suburb of detached single family homes (and duplexes & the like that can "hide" in such a neighborhood), i can't imagine putting up with an HOA. If for nothing else they are enforcing sterility and uniformity, and growing up in a small town its genuinely 1,000 times more attractive to have a mix of houses. (Styles, colors, sizes, materials, ages, ect ) My town has a building that was a former stop on the underground railroad, a neighboring town has a 3 story pink house with white & purple trim, it definitely looks better than cookie cutter suburban house left hand symmetry #684648.
I just moved from a downtown condo to a detached house and I chose to go with house in an HOA. The main reason is this HOA does not allow short term rentals. AirBnBs are very common here, and I didn't want to live next to a party house. Keeping all the homes looking nice is another good reason. Homes are so expensive here, losing even a small percent of your property value due to neighbors trashing their yards is significant
Central Florida resident here. When I was searching for a new house a few years ago, it was basically impossible to live somewhere without an HOA. Almost everything within a reasonable distance from where I work has been built in the past 20-30 years, and a vast majority of it is within HOA communities. The neighborhoods that didn't have any HOAs were generally much more expensive. I could have chosen to live farther away (and I mean A LOT farther), but considering the explosive population growth and the already clogged roadways, I didn't want to spend hours commuting. (Public transit is, unfortunately, not an option in my situation.) While I appreciate the services the HOA provides: lawn care, a pool, and exterior maintenance (I'm in a townhouse, so they do the roofing and exterior painting, etc.), the restrictive codes and regulations almost all seem unnecessary. Living in a townhouse, there obviously has to be some shared responsibility between neighbors, but I feel like that could easily be accomplished without all the restrictions. (I've gotten a warning about a flower pot my neighbor put along the path that leads to just our two front doors.) Overall, if I have to move again in the future, "No HOA" would be near the top of my priority list.
Depends where you are in Central Florida. In my area most houses are not in HOAs, it's easy to build a new house that's not in an HOA, and homes outside HOAs are typically more affordable.
If you're stuck in an HOA community you don't like, that can be a difficult challenge to solve. If you're stuck in an HOA community you don't like, that can be a difficult challenge to solve.
Hard to find a neighborhood here in Las Vegas without an HOA. Main reason: No city government with less than 100,000 people. They want to transfer their responsibilities to another agency.
HOAs aren't common in Canada, so this is interesting to watch. It sounds like strata council managed apartment buildings we have here (which make sense when it's a shared structure with elevators that need to be maintained etc), but without the necessity to actually need one. Can't understand why I'd get a house but voluntarily choose to continue strata-style management.
HOAs provide pools, tennis courts and playgrounds in subdivisions. Canada doesn’t have those things usually. They sometimes also provide guard gated access to the community and golf courses. It means you’re McMansion has all these amenities and faux lakes and a governing body to resolve petty neighborhood arguments
@@LucasFernandez-fk8se actually we do, they’re provided by the city. Most neighbourhoods have public pools, tennis courts, skating rinks (usually outdoors and only in the winter, maintained by community volunteers), play structures, you name it! No need for HOAs when you have functioning city governments. In fact, developers are required to build those facilities in new subdivisions which are then handed over to the city for public use. That’s why we have a Parks Department.
@@LucasFernandez-fk8se That's quite interesting. At least in my city of Vancouver, playgrounds and tennis courts are quite common (and well-maintained) in city-managed parks so there's just not much need for an HOA-style place. And gated communities are a foreign concept too - you can drive right up to billionaires houses here.
Imagine paying a mortgage that is already miles more expensive than simply renting, paying property taxes, paying insurance and/or mortgage insurance, paying for upkeep and repairs, and then going "hmm, I think an HOA would look great on my living expenses." I have a few friends who recently purchased their own homes and they all said their number 1 criteria was NO HOA's.
My HOA is for a single, self managed 6 flat in Chicago. For 200 dollars a month, the building gets landscaping, snow removal and maintained (it was built in 1906 so that's not exactly cheap) without me having to do anything but send in my dues. The HOA is extremely relaxed on anything regarding what I do within my own walls. I'm all for dunking on suburban HOAs fining people for living their lives, but they're definitely not all created equal.
I think the problem this video is referencing is HOAs on detached single family homes. HOAs a largely used to keep up property values which that evidence is mixed. Condominiums and other shared walled homes definitely need HOAs due to the nature of y’all sharing so much (walls, exterior, sometimes piping and wiring) that cooperation is needed to function.
Usually they call that a condominium association and like the person before commented it's much more understandable if you share walls. But it really does depend a lot on the people who are running it.
And in Germany I pay 450€ in rent (includes heating) and have all what you describe for your $200 fee too... $200 seems faaaaar too much for such basic things.
@@whuzzzup I know that OP says they live in a 6-flat, but $200 a month is at the lower end in terms of HOA fees. The rent-seeking behavior of housing in the US is freakishly bad compared to Germany.
Some people have no choice. I didn't want to live in an HOA...but the housing market was very competitive...and 95% of the homes in the area were in an HOA. Bid on a few non-HOA homes but didn't win. So, now I'm in an HOA. Got a vague mailbox violation after 5+ years of living here and it is stressing me out more than it should. It just bothers me so much that some nit-picky person with nothing better to do is going around finding issues with people's properties...and that we basically have no choice but to comply. I hate HOAs...
They do have a choice. Move somewhere else. Spend your money in the other town's businesses. Pay taxes to that town and not the one promoting HOA's. Vote out city council members for dereliction of duty for handling the city's job over to the HOA.
I'm disappointed that you gloss over two key issues with HOAs. The first is that as you said they comprise the overwhelming majority of new developments, which means that buying outside of an HOA is often difficult especially if you don't have the money or skills to buy and repair a fixer-upper. (There is a specialized loan for this but it's complicated and you need to find a contractor who will sign off on it.) The second is that local governments tend to actively encourage HOAs in the tax code because they save them money when they have things like private roads. When I was looking for a house I had to go 45 minutes out of the city center where there was is access to public transit and most amenities are at least a 25 minute drive away, because not being an HOA was one of my mandatory requirements and the only options I could find in my price range near public transit call closer to work outside of an HOA work complete fixer-uppers. Meanwhile, I have coworkers who bought brand-new cheaper houses right on public transit lines around the same period, because they were willing to buy in an HOA.
I'm in a co-op, which is similar to an HOA, but all the property is owned by a non-profit organization who's board is made up by a committee of the renters. Imagine an HOA, but if people weren't uptight about property value because they were busing focusing on the communities living experience and financial well being. Specifically, my co-op is focused on raising children, and only allows people to move in who have children.
LOL! You keep telling yourself that. That "co-op" is just a baby HOA with extra steps. Start out wearing hippie outfits, and not giving a fuk, until you start to realize that you DO actually care about "property values", like sane homeowners are, when the place starts to look like hot $hit, and you want to actually sell.
@@WillmobilePlus You don't buy into a co-op because you care about property values, at least around here. The co-ops here are extremely cheap for the space you get, but come burdened with much higher monthly fees (covering the mortgage on the complex) and the license to live in your unit can't be mortgaged like your ownership rights to a condo, so you have to come up with a lot of cash up front, which puts downward pressure on the price.
Only people with children are allowed in? What a dumb rule. Most people don't even have children because they're horrible parents don't know how to teach children life skills. That's why half of American voters voted Trump.
What is this radical nonsence about people who are affected by decisions getting to influence the decisions. Sounds like communism to me! (Chugs a Bud Light, shoots a gun, leaves in a huge Ford truck)
Much of the landscaping fees cover costs of the bad land development. For example, most of my moms HOA dues cover the cost of water run-off retention ponds which are only required because the developer scraped the forest bare to build the houses. It caused flooding which was mitigated by the man-made ponds which now the residents have to pay for in perpetuity. Because the developer couldn't bother to leave natural drainage and streams now the HOA must pay for. The drainage is required by the county government. So rather than mandating preservation of natural drainage by the developers they mandate expensive bandaids that are actively maintained by the people. Insane.
I live in a HOA neighborhood, so far hasn’t been so bad. One of my neighbors did get a $50 fine for having brown grass when nobody else in the neighborhood with brown grass got fines 😂
After watching dozens of HOA horror stories videos and reading tons of comments, I have come to some conclusions about HOA's. Mostly, ask the HOA for permission to do ANYTHING -- from big things like repainting, driveway changes, fences, and pools, to small things that seem insignificant such as new flower plantings, replacing the front door of the house, adding a swingset in your backyard, to installing a wheelchair ramp. Basically, a good HOA will simply approve what you want to do and you are good to go. Overzealous HOA's who want to regulate every little thing will at least tell you upfront a big fat NO or dictate exactly what you can and cannot do. They might approve a wheelchair ramp, but you have to ask them FIRST before you build it. Trying to do anything without their permission gets them all pissed off because they want authority over EVERYTHING. You can have your permanent flagpole, but they want to dictate everything about it because they are on a big power trip. Don't even dare to extend your sidewalk by 2 feet or buy a new garbage can until you get permission and they tell you exactly how they want it done. I have no use for HOA's. I cannot even tolerate municipal rules that are stoopid, such as no parking of vehicles on your grass lawn. If I wanna have 6 vehicles plus a motor home and park 4 of them on the grass, I am gonna do it and I don't give a shit what some stoopid rule says. One particular type of HOA rule that I cannot stand has to do with commercial vehicles owned or operated by the homeowner who wishes to park that vehicle at or on their property. So many of these rules are truly arbitrary garbage. A giant SUV like a Chevy Suburban or Tahoe is perfectly fine for residents, but a pick-up truck with the name of a business on it is NOT OKAY. They are basically the same G-D vehicle. In fact, the giant SUV may be larger and uglier than a sedan with the name of a business on it. It is blatant prejudice against people who work for a living versus f***kers who have jobs in an office. The guy who brings his tow truck home with him or his contractor van full of $80,000 worth of tools is discriminated against. But at 3 AM when you need a plumber or heating repair, your dipshit attorney neighbor is useless -- you need the guy who brings his work vehicle home so he can respond 24/7/365 90 percent of the time, HOA's suck.
Great video as always! I'm curious if the 4% increase that people are willing to pay (according to that study) is because it's IN the HOA or because it's a NICER HOUSE because of the HOA that it is in? I wonder if and how many people actually know the value they are getting AND the price they are paying when they buy in an HOA? I sure didn't on my first house. I probably wouldn't do it again for my home and definitely wouldn't for an investment property.
Additionally outside of HOAs you will see the full spectrum of housing which includes smaller, older, and more run down properties. (Not to mention environmental factors like proximity to a farm, never live downwind of a farm) In contrast he stated that 80% of new housing is part of an HOA by default, so how much of this 4% is from the housing simply being all new or not permitted to decay or suit lower income people. (Basically is this sample bias at work?)
As someone who bought a house in an HOA and within months started to spend tens of thousands of dollars to remedy long-term issues nobody bothered to fix over 20 years (HVAC was horribly installed, bathroom wall had no insulation, kitchen wall had no insulation...) I doubt it's because the houses are built better. But 1 is a small sample size.
A valid point, though I know in my house hunting the nicer houses often were in HOAs (by a wide margin) and that's not a coincidence. Many people choose an HOA with a nicer home due to the benefits in maintaining the values in that nicer home. In my own searching most non HOA communities putting a too nice of a house would be overinvesting and you wouldn't get it back. So I think you're right, but there's in fact a causation involved. There are exceptions of course, some really nice non HOA communities and "nice" is subjective. As to your second point, how many people actually know. All I can speak of is from anecdotal experience, but based on complaints in my HOA 99% are from people who didn't do their research so might fit your bill. No excuse IMHO since the rest of us put the work in to research the community we moved into. I find the majority of people knew what they were getting into and specifically wanted an HOA that had some rules and regulations to maintain certain things.
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Some people prefer to self segregate by nature. If they don’t bother me, I don’t bother them. No different than high school where I obviously see groups of people of the same race tend to hang out with each other more often than others.
@@Labyrinth6000 the problem comes when they essentially drive up costs for everyone else by cordoning off city segments and going 'no you don't GET to be here.' in theory HOA's provide a local good and a community that is person size that people can engadge in. In practice it's a mixed bag that along with the apples and pears, and fresh baked goodies, includes rusted nails and glass shards.
In Denver you really can't find many decent neighborhoods without also having to deal with an HOA. It's not like everyone WANTS an HOA, it's more so the fact that you really don't get a choice. Fortunately my HOA is pretty chill, and reasonably cheap.
I don't think I could live in an HOA. I like my colonial neighborhood since it has more character and differentiation. Too much of the same is not good for the soul, and I enjoy walking around and admiring all the different styles, landscaping, and projects that my neighbors throw up. It's a lot more rewarding than seeing cookie-cutter houses one after another. Plus it means that if my grass or hedges get too unruly, I won't have some secret Gestapo police force coming in and fining me. I get why some like that lifestyle, but for me, I appreciate my towns quirks and features
HOAs seem to be more a legacy product of property developers' marketing strategies rather than grass-roots-type organizations. An interesting research question might ask: What is the percentage of homeowners who _relocate_ from one HOA neighborhood to another HOA neighborhood?
The data that would answer your question might be too skewed, simply because many metro areas (especially in the Sun Belt) have a huge percentage of their land controlled by HOA’s.
Cities like HOAs because they still get to collect property taxes for the homes but don't have to provide as many services like streetlights, sidewalks, or roads in many cases.
You should probably say from the top that this is specifically concerning HOAs for single family detached homes. An HOA is a must for condominiums, and for them $260/month is too low for many of them to adequately insure, maintain and bank funds for routine large expenditures like roofing replacement and paving.
One of my family members had a home in the DC metro area and listed it for sale when he was ready to downsize. When he listed it, so many people were bidding on each other just because it didn’t have an HOA
There are multiple high value areas that are highly dominated by HOAs so a rare non HOA property is of high value. I'd be careful to read too much into this though, often that's about scarcity. You limit the supply of anything it often becomes much more valuable. There may be only a small market for those non HOA properties in high value areas, but an even smaller supply, hence value can be inflated.
From my French perspective, I’m always fascinated by how the “land of the free” is obsessed with avoiding public taxes and regulations but keep creating private structures raising taxes and creating absurd rules… far more expensive, less efficient and less democratic… We have a few closed residential areas with specific rules but it’s very rare… most of the time you just need to respect general public construction regulations and that’s it…
I’m so happy we don’t have them where I live. « Maintaining the yard » usually means having high maintenance green grass all over. My dream is to turn my front yard into a garden.
Your “unequal votes” examples are so benign compared to what we have in Redwood Estates/Holy City in California. Here, the number of votes per parcel is explicit in the deeds for each parcel and they vary by parcel. A minority of parcels each get like 10x the votes of most parcels. Supposedly this can’t be changed because being in the deed means it’s part of the value of the property, so the people with more would have to voluntarily forfeit their additional votes and the HOA can’t force them to do that. The deeds are also very clear in very dated language about the persuasion and ethnicity of property owners, but thankfully that part isn’t enforced anymore.
I have always wondered about this. HOAs are not popular in my part if the USA, although condo associations are present. I don't understand the attraction. Edit:a swimming pool? That's it?
That's why I bought a house in an HOA. Building a pool costs ten's of thousands of dollars. Maintaining a pool can cost thousands of dollars a year. Splitting the cost of a pool between a few hundred people does make sense. Until your HOA doesn't bother to give you your pool pass and you discover the other negative aspects.
I live in a non-HOA addition that is neighbored by an HOA development. There is absolutely no difference in the value and condition of the houses. In fact, some of the homeowners in the HOA don't realize there's a little slice of non-HOA heaven just across the way. The HOA owners get access to a pool, playground, and exclusive walking paths behind their homes in exchange for their dues. I walk on the public streets right through the middle of their neighborhood to a walking trail in a public park on the other end...for free.
That's the thing that most people don't realize is that the supposed benefits of HOAs are really just benefits of buying houses of a certain value. There is a certain self selection where if the houses in a neighborhood are above a certain cost the only people who can afford them are people who will want to maintain home values.
as a Canadian, this is odd. We have these for multifamily (townhouses and condos), which makes sense because you share building structure. but it’s rare for single family homes. those are almost governed by the municipality. Why would HOAs begin to exist for single family home neighborhoods? Maybe because the municipal governments were inadequately maintaining the places? Sounds like just another failure of government in usa
Some developers put in pools, clubhouses, and playgrounds as community features to draw people in. Once they do that, someone has to pay to maintain them. Single family home HOAs are definitely different beasts than condo HOAs.
After moving to the US, I was shocked at the extent how HoAs regulate even the smallest and obscurest details. Especially in our condo project where most units are rented out and tenants are not allowed to attend board meetings, the few and usually old, retired owners living in the project can pass any rules they like. They seem to be especially hostile towards children. No playing on the grass allowed, no biking, skateboarding, noise. And you better not park the stroller for one minute outside the door!
Great video as always! I couldn't help but to think about the movie Over The Hedge haha! They literally just make fun of the HOA in an accurate manner and its hilarious.
The more I learn about America, the more it seems like true Capitalist dystopia. Almost half of all Floridians live in *private neighborhoods* with *private governments* ??? It's the "land of the free" and you can't *use your garage for storage* ?!?!?!
Than you haven't learned much. If you don't like the HOA just move to a state that doesn't have them. I don't have them where I live and I'm just fine. They're common in Florida because of the old people
I had a friend who moved into an HOA and after about a month of living there he already got a $50 fine for supposedly leaving his boat out too long. He was working on the boat and had taken a lunch break and it just so happened the main HOA NAZI rode by his house and saw this and decided to fine him. No way I ever live in an HOA.
If you come to a place like Phoenix you pretty much have limited options if you don't want an HOA. 90%+ of the suburbs here are in HOAs. I'm looking for a house here. If I want something relatively close to my work it'll be in an HOA (If I can even afford it in the first place). If I want something close to transit options I'll be in a COA which the monthly dues would make it unaffordable. My only options would be deeper into the suburbs with a lower HOA or moving to the next satellite city with probably no HOA and much more affordable housing but contributing more to traffic congestion.
I’m from Australia, so body corporates (the equivalent of HOAs are rare outside of townhouse complexes and apartment buildings, but ‘Taking dues and turning them into amenities and services for residents’… That sounds like what a local government should do.
I'm in one of the chill HOA's. It's $50/mo and they maintain the landscaping and a pool. I don't think they've ever fined anyone. The biggest problem is you don't know if you got the chill HOA until you've bought the property.
One of the most shocking things for me that I saw while visiting the US was that your movement was so restricted. You better stay on the street or the park. In my home country of Finaland you rarely see a no loitering sing, you can go to all forests freely and I have never seen a gated community.
That is because Finland has by comparison no crime at all...America is vastly different with no universal health care...no universal education...I would expect more incarcerated people than you entire population...and maybe more homeless people than your entire population... We also have a huge news complex that strives to to keep people frightened and angry...for profit naturally...and power...
Man screw all this nonsense. The benefits of an HOA should just be something your city is already doing. If my neighbor tries to fine me because I left my garbage can out too long, they can shove it lmao. I don't need people's permission to do what ever I want with my yard or house. Let people be creative.
We were happy with our HOA because it's only $120 a year, and they did keep the local retention pond looking good. That and landscaping was pretty much all they did. Except now they seem to have just straight up died because they haven't even cashed our last payment cheque. For once we really should turn up to the HOA annual meeting, we've missed it every other time ^^"
I grew up in a town that bordered Chicago. Every amenity listed was provided and maintained by the town to service all residents and guests. Property and (rare) special taxes paid for it all. True blight was addressed by ordinance and enforced by the town. Additionally, minor issues like overgrown lawns, homes in need of exterior repair, parking, et cetera were remedied by the locals either by actually helping (in my youth I mowed lawns, shoveled sidewalks, painted and such for free or for a nominal fee) or through courteous peer pressure. It worked admirably without adding another layer of government and cost or further enriching the developers.
The 4% premium in house values for HOA neighborhoods feels like selection bias to me. Neighborhoods with HOAs are going to naturally skew toward the more affluent and therefore have higher values. I know that not all HOW neighborhoods are wealthy neighborhoods, but there are virtually no poor neighborhoods that have an HOA.
I live in a townhouse with an hoa and I think mine is great! There have only been benefits from it. I don't have to mow my lawn or shovel snow since they hire a company to do that. Lots of repairs to the outside of my house are taken care of by the hoa, like last winter the gutter would leak really bad when the snow melted, in turn causing huge amounts of ice built up on the walkway. The hoa had the gutter replaced very quickly. I havent ever had any bad experiences with any of my neighbors or the association. Maybe it's just because i live in a townhouse, and there are only a dozen or so units total, so it's a very small hoa.
My friends and I all seemed to buy our homes at the same time. Only one was in an HOA. They despised it and they’re fairly by the book. They sold and moved. I could never!😜
One thing I wish you had covered in this video is exactly how much legal power HOAs have to do things like fining and evicting home owners. Like, can a person just flat out refuse to pay a fine for something stupid like the plant pot or boxes in their garage? How is it that a group of other people can tell me I cannot live in a house on land that I own? What legal recourse do I have if I manage to get on the wrong side of some HOA board member who makes new rules up for the specific purpose of fining or evicting me? These are all extremely important topics that I wish you had gone into at least a little detail about. I have only been a home owner in one community that had an HOA and I lived there for many many years with no problems at all. Until about 6 months before I sold my house and moved out of state (that was planned already, not a result of the problems) when they suddenly decided they didn't like my blue shutters and porch posts and forced me to paint them a more neutral color. Then they got mad at me for having a car in my driveway (no garage) plus one next to it on the grass for a few days while a friend was staying with me to help me pack and get ready for the move. They threatened to call the police and have the car towed. I pretty much caved on both of those issues, but the one that really pissed me off was when they said I couldn't have a dog in my own home that I paid for with my own money after I had already had the dog (openly) for 4 years. I have no clue who I pissed off, but they went out of their way to make my last few months in that house miserable.
Somewhere in your closing documents you signed something that said they do have all that power, and can change the rules as well. IANAL but if you are going to fight them, you probably need to talk to one.
Most people who comment on things like HOA's do so out of irritation or annoyance with the HOA. People who are content rarely comment. Therefore, online comment will organically skew negative. HOA board members are fellow homeowners in the community. Therefore, they have the same financial and personal issues at stake along with all other HOA members.
My studio condo is managed by a management company. We’ve had one in the past that was terrible but the one we’ve had for several years now has been really good. The row homes are over 100 years old so they are proactive in having foundation checked, heating, roof, snow removal, community washer/dryer upkeep and will even find suitable renters for a 10% commission from rent. As long as any renovations are done by licensed professionals and I submit paperwork so they have a record of it, they are pretty lenient about stuff. Maybe I just lucked out but I’m happily paying someone else to manage issues. I think I’d feel different in a suburban HOA or a high rise one that is self managed.
Let me address something said around the 1:15 mark of this video. HOA's are not popular amongst residents, however, they are popular amongst those who favor corporate greed and complete corruption.
I had a question where I live there’s a growing movement to from co-op housing for long term residents in a city, will co-op housing run into the same issues as HOA groups? - context: the city is creating an easier approval process for co-op/non profit housing which has been estimated to reduce the costs per unit built by $20,000 due to ease of the approval process.
Americans: Hate government, love their constitution, love their freedom. Create a private board for their neighbourhood that acts as a government but with more limits on freedom and with less constitutional protection. Logic!
I think most people see an HOA as a negative when buying a house. They just put up with it because it's hard to find a non-rural community without one.
Ideologically, I am opposed to HOAs and a friend of mine has been targeted by his HOA for abuse just because the HOA's president dislikes him. That said, my HOA is very chill, the fee is low and goes to services that I'd probably end up paying more for if I had to pay for them individually. Like so many systems, it seems to only be as good as the people who comprise it allow it to be.
I live in an actual small town instead of an HOA. I have to pay additional taxes to the town, but in return the town does town things, like provide a police department, public works, parks dept, and events. Like every Halloween instead of kids going trick or treating to houses, the kids go up and down Main Street and the shops provide the treats. Downtown busts alive with activity and parents socialize with each other while kids are having fun, and shop owners get people into their stores for the event. I love it, the other parades, free town concerts on the square, etc, etc... Oh, and they enforce town codes on properties but it's not overly onerous.
Sounds a lot like the good HOAs I've lived in. They even have community voted board etc so it's basically a democratic republic. I love my current HOA for basically the same things you list.
HOA when I owned my condo in California didn’t allow us to use outlet garage as storage. I still did because I didn’t drive. We had so many rules. Here in Texas we were given a warning because of where my sister placed her son basketball goal.
