Why Are Men in Crisis? | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO) 

“The young men who do not feel the warmth of the tribe will burn down the village to feel it” African proverb

A young male coworker of mine took his own life yesterday. And I have no idea what to think about it. He was a good kid. Quiet. Easy going. It's just sad. Horribly sad.

"Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them." - Henry David Thoreau. This isn't a new phenomenon, it's just gotten worse.

That statistic at 1:46 is absolutely mind blowing. Sex deprivation, lack of direction, depression without anyone really caring, loneliness, and the constant pressure from society to live up to a certain standard and the internal and external shame that goes along with not doing so are all huge issues with young men these days, yet so many people simply don’t care and even ridicule men for having them.

I'm a 24 year old man who went to school and got a bachelor's degree, learned that I'm more comfortable in blue collar work, and chose working on the railroad. Everything said by the panel is spot on. It's amazing how quickly women my age make assumptions about my values and how differently I was treated when I was on "the college fast track" as opposed to how I'm treated now.

One factor I felt that wasn't discussed, and is honestly not discussed enough when this subject comes up, is the lack of friendships many people have today. If you don't have friends, there's really no other realistic outlet for you to meet someone than by a dating app. If you have friends though, you could meet people through their social networks, friends of friends, or just while out one night.

This is absolutely one of the most serious issues in society, yet it’s a subject that is either dismissed completely like it doesn’t exist at all or is frowned upon to discuss. There is so much to unpack, please keep this topic at the forefront and help raise awareness for the crisis men are facing.

that initial applause says it all, extinction is coming

This all should have been brought up 10 years ago when it was obvious social media was the problem. Instead most people ignored it and we have an entire generation that’s beyond repair

That was pretty stupid by the audience to clap when Bill mentioned that women don't marry men who don't have college degrees, but I like how he followed it up with "Great you'll be lonely forever."

The problem is that this crisis has been brewing for a long time and nobody really cares. The Fight Club addressed it quite well and it also warned about the end result of it.

I’m 37 years old. I’m not overweight, I’m not hideously ugly, and I’m a motivated person w lots of passions and interests and even I have found it incredibly difficult to find a mate. I’ve probably sent out tens of thousands of messages to women on the dating apps and it’s rare I even get a response much less a date. And I would meet people more organically except it’s rare I ever meet a girl I find attractive in real life that isn’t already attached. What the hell am I suppose to do? Win the lottery and hope for a gold digger? 😤

It isn't just that these facts are true, its that much of society delights in those things being true.

I'll take a stab - men's issues are treated as personal moral failings and not systemic issues + every male support group (rightly or wrongly) gets cancelled

What a conversation. In our country they say “laying the finger on the wound.” Talking where it hurts. This is what we need, and Bill get’s it.

These people laughing in the audience won't be laughing a few years from now. They think this is something casual, something miniscule, they'll get a reality check in due time.

When online dating started, it was all about finding your partner, and then you're done. But this switched when the people running dating apps realized that it was stupid to toss away customers, just because they found a partner. In fact, when the app succeeds, it loses TWO customers! This cannot be allowed to stand! And so (the predictability of this is so tiresome) they started de-emphasizing the idea of finding a partner and deleting the app and they started using all the social media psychological tricks, with the goal of just getting you to use the app and keep paying your subscription every month. After not using one app for a few weeks I got an unbelievable message from them with the subject line "Don't settle." These people are self-consciously encouraging dissatisfaction to improve their bottom line. If you can figure out how, meeting people IRL is much much better, easier and healthier all around.

As a 23 year old man I greatly appreciate older men shedding light on these issues

Great conversation full of truths seldomly talked about and even less frequently acted upon by mainstream media/society.

Trouble is that it’s almost (almost) impossible to meet anybody these days without being “online”’

The cheering at 0:20 is one of the reasons. There won't be so much cheer if men did something similar. Men are not marrying women who can't cook? Sexist. Women are not marrying men who don't have a degree or cannot provide? You Go Queen.

These guys were spot on about this. No one in the media talks about mens issues and it’s pathetic.

Just adding my two cents. I have notice that these new generation sees love as weakness. It’s uncool to show real love without being made fun of or dropped real quick by the significant other. The music industry is pretty much the epitome of this whether is females or males. Romanticism is from the past and vulgarity is at all time high. People have become expendable more now than ever before.

I'm 47 and had it much easier as a young man. This is an amazing conversation! I have the years behind me that I've watched this happen over time. It's not easy to be a man period, let alone this day and age and I've seen this frustration in my son. Be proactive about your state of mind and put you first. Build confidence in yourself and when that shows thru, everyone will notice who you are.

Glad to see people finally waking up to this. Some of us have been talking about this for 15 years.

One of the best segments I've seen of any show ever. PLEASE keep talking about this.

media has given men expectations of what they're supposed to be, and then gone out of it's way to then deny them those things and tell them they're bad for wanting it

This is the first time I’ve heard somebody talk about ‘mating inequality’. I thought it was just me who thought about it in those terms. Like, one privilege that you almost never hear about is height. For men. Huge discrimination happening there, over something they can do nothing about.

Damn. This is one of the few times I’ve seen this being discussed without it immediately devolving into male privilege arguments. A tiny fraction of men have power, the rest are living lives of quite desolation.

The fact that they cheered at women with degree's don't marry men without tells you everything you need to know

Woah, I always thought of Bill Maher as what a liberal should be: open-minded and empathetic primarily and this segment has really earned him a listener from across the aisle.

Working at home is great for married men and those in relationships and those who have no issues finding and keeping relationships, but how often do you hear about someone falling in love during a zoom meeting? I *have* known dozens of people who met at work and went on to long-term relationships, so working from home takes that off the table for the most part. It's not a disaster, but it cuts down your odds.

There was an excellent documentary a few years ago called “The Red Pill” that was all about this topic. Interestingly, the creator of the documentary originally set out to debunk the issues, but along the way realized the problems are real. She was thoroughly villified by the feminist movement as some kind of traitor and heretic, as if the problems facing men were a good thing. All I can say is watch the movie and judge for yourself.

Nothing more dangerous than a young man with nothing to lose and a chip on his shoulder .

I mean this is what Western civilization cherishes and holds in such high regard. Technological advancement and unbridled individual freedoms. We thump our chests when it comes to how “advanced” and “free” our society is compared to the rest of the world and it turns out that very little of that actually results in long term happiness and stable societies.

I cringed when the women clapped at not marrying down the economic latter.

Finally someone speaks it out in the mainstream media.

I like how Bill talks about a dating app like it’s a pizza delivery service. Unpopular newsflash: hookup culture is also a problem.

That audience clap in the beginning pretty much sums up everything that is wrong with society on this issue.

I’m one of these men. I’m 42, unmarried, no children. I don’t want that now anyway. I’m disagreeable to society in general. I dislike most everything and I’m fairly bitter. I wouldn’t mind seeing society burn. Wont be no skin off my back

I think he’s right about the social media aspect. I remember 25-30 years ago when I was in high school and college that we (as men) actually WENT OUT to socialize either by ourselves or in a group and (depending on what kind of strange you were looking for) meet women. Even the nerdiest, most awkward among us found a woman that appreciated them. The issue is, it’s far too easy to hide behind a screen, be someone you’re not while having unrealistic expectations of beauty and wealth (this goes for both men and women). Add to this-the past 15 years society has stated that male behavior (anything that traditionally defines men and their behavior) has been deemed “toxic.” So, as a society, you’ve decided men are toxic, and created millions of literal “yes men” and believe it or not, women don’t want that.

The frustrating part. I've done all the things these guys say. I've got the education, the vocational training and even with those I can't get a stable job to even be considered dateable. There is one thing that is overlooked that these guys miss. The job market is broken. The over reliance of technology through applicant tracking systems and defining people through their employment history prevents people from getting the opportunity to transition to different jobs and careers. If you graduated during the great recession like myself you know this directly where you had to go back to the same jobs you have in high school because those were the only jobs available and that started a domino effect. Employers no longer cared about your education because you had a job that said that your value as a person in the world of work is that of a waiter or retail employee. The economy and job market produces more low income jobs than ever before thanks to both businesses and the government. The higher ups aren't retiring and not passing the torch of leadership and jobs to the younger generation. So the millennial never had a chance to even get a career in the industry where they got their major as over 65% of graduates aren't even working in the career where they got their major putting all that knowledge and skills to waste and over 40% of those who graduated regret their major because they aren't able to get a career related to their major. This has created a bottleneck where even Gen X are still stuck in low management and even entry level jobs. Course I can't blame the working elderly Gen X and Baby Boomers because they couldn't afford to retire anyway because there are no pensions and the cost of living has inflated so much that wages have been stagnant for over 70 years. So as a result to make a living and honestly doing better than getting an education and trying to get a job, the women are on OnlyFans, Fansly and Twitch creating parasocial relationships with children and young men and making six figures or more. The men are on Twitch and RU-vid because if you can't get a job that pays a living wage based on your education your only option to get a career is to create a portfolio online showcasing your talents and hobbies. We're all doing the intentionally dumbest and most destructive acts on TikTok and Twitter just to get noticed as that has more luck jumpstarting a career than trying to get a career in the job market. Employers don't care about people's education anymore when it comes to considering a candidate, they want people who have direct work experience and lacking that the star power of a youtuber because to get that entry level job it's not only requires breadth of knowledge and skill, it takes depth. As for the women who are doing better in education and in income, they are going to consider having relationships with people who are doing better than them economically, regardless of education. These guys say to work your ass off but you can't really work your ass off when you can't get a job. Can't even think about asking a woman out on a date when you're not paid a living wage to afford your own place instead of living in your parent's house. EDIT: If Scott Galloway reads this. I have a bachelor's degree and the following certifications going back to community college, adult school, and certification work programs. None of these have helped me transition to any of these career fields because my recent work experience is in administration. Even working with over five different temp agencies have not been able to get me a temp job. - Microsoft Certified Professional (Windows Server) - Medical Billing and Insurance Coding - Video Editing - Data Analytics (SQL, R, Tableau [Learn to code]) - Project Management I'm now going back to adult school again to get a certificate in accounting. I honestly don't know what to do if after completing this certificate program what I am going to do. I have wasted decades of my life doing what everyone says I should do to get a career but the job market doesn't want me.

There is not one thing you can point to and say this is why young men are in crisis. Having declared that, the one point that always bothered me was when boys sports stopped keeping score in little league sports. Boys want to win, they want to play hard, and know that their efforts helped beat their opponent. Moreover, schools stopped or reduced outside recess, and daily boys gym. Young boys need to work off their excess energy. It should not be suppressed with Rx drugs.

Yeahhh, all I’m going to say is that I 100% agree. A emotionally lonely man is the most dangerous kind of man. The amount of work put into not ruining your life is very exhausting…

Wow Scott Galloway was a social savant here. The guy came PREPARED with facts and figures and systematically laid down hard truth after hard truth. What an exceptional guest. Makes so many others look like the dopes they are

I have long noted that when young men, or even adolescents, have trouble connecting with women, there's a tendency to dismiss or ridicule them. "If women avoid you that should tell you something" is a typical retort, as if he should instinctively know how to solve it. I am on my 50s and have been married for 15 years, but when 20 I remember greatly resenting that I was supposed to instinctively know whether someone was interested in me or if she was just being polite, I had to ask if she'd like to get together, I had to think of something to do, I had to pay for it, and I was dismissed as a creepy jerk if I miscalculated any of this. We need to allow men to work on these things rather than expect them to miraculously know.

15 seconds in, the sentiment of the applause break

110% agree with Scott Galloway on this, and pretty much everything else he says

Very good Bill for broadcasting an extremely base problem the world has, not just the US.

I feel this way alot. Something they didn't mention in this was the absence of male fathers, or father figures in men's lives. That is huge! If you look at most the people who went and shot up schools or grocery stores, or whatever it is, most didn't have a father in their life. There is a manhood and a fatherless crisis in our country. And it's been here a while. When you have signs that read, "Take time to be a father today", that to me is really, really scary. Kids neeed moms and dads. Good role models. I don't know the numbers, but stats prove that even if a child grows up without a father, but has some type of male role model, (neighbor, friends dad, pastor, priest, etc) they are some much more likely NOT to commit crimes, have children before marriage, drop out of school. We need this fixed!

EXCELLENT discussion! I would ‘thumbs up’ this 100 times if I could

The shooting that happened in Buffalo was not committed by someone who lived in that City. He Lived over a hundred miles away and with parents who were too busy with their cushy state jobs to bother really knowing what was going on in their own home.

We have destroyed every aspect of things traditionally held for men, and we are shocked when young men feel like society has no place for them. Frankly, their feelings are essentially correct, no wonder they throw up their hands take their ball, and go home.

Wow,the audience has never seemed more like trained seals than this. Even Bill was like "Why are you clapping...?".

Chris Rock said it best: Only women, children, and dogs are loved unconditionally. Men are loved on the condition they provide something.

Scott Galloway is a beast. I could listen to him every episode.

The only message the cultural establishment offers young men is at best open honest disdain and at worst condescending concern trolling over "toxic masculinity" with no examples of what non-toxic masculinity is.

As men in the West, we’re like a dog that’s locked up in a house all day with nothing to do. When you suppress a dog’s purpose, it’s gonna chew the couch. We all need a purpose and men are built for specific purposes that are not valued in today’s society.

Scott Galloway is brilliant! I'm going to share his warning widely! Thanks for focusing your show on this, Bill!

Watching the world burn is fun when you don't have anything to lose. I hope civilization collapses back to the stone age and I get to see it before I die.

In the black community its 100x worse, bc as a Black man we get hit with “you’re not black enough” like what does that even mean. Or “you don’t have swag”. Or we have to pick from women with kids from 2 men like why would I want that, and if I don’t want that I get called soft or I’m not a real man, smh. Kevin Samuels talked about this for 2 years…

I love men, all shape sizes heights weights and colors. To all the men out there I love and appreciate you, you have a lot of value to society, we could not survive without you. I think men are afraid to talk to women because there's so many rules and regulations and cancellations that can come from that.

The idea of a woman valuing a man and a potential mate through their ability to provide has become such a taboo thing. But this is something that has been around forever… you could even make a moral argument for it. If you’re a woman who is inclined to bring new life into this world, it is more responsible for you to get with a man that has a higher probability to provide for the children, no?

When you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose. Social media is a dangerous failure.

One of the best panels I’ve seen on the show🔥 Really made me reevaluate how I feel about things that I already know- but didn’t *really know*

Greater importance of education (time and money spent) contribute this as well. Lot of people place education and job opportunities over relationships. People have formed real meaningful relationships later in life because of this. Devaluing high skilled jobs (plumbers, electricians, welders, etc.) that pay great but society doesn't attach prestige too is a shame. These people make a good living but according to statistics degree holders won't date them

Agree with everything besides the remote work. If I could afford to live close to my office, get to work quickly and not have to deal with traffic, I'd be more keen to going into an office. But unfortunately, the cost of gas+ waiting in traffic+ time to get ready takes about 4 hours out of your day. It's also high energy inefficient to have to drive to and from work, for a job you could do just as easily at home.

Feminism never taught women hypergamy needs to go away just like patriarchy.

We _already_ have a society that doesn't value men. In fact, we nearly have a society that despises men, and any men who even look like they have something to say about it are aggressively silenced and shoved out of society altogether. I grew up in the poorest, most dysfunctional, unsupportive environment there is. My parents were never together for a single day that I have been alive, and I haven't talked to either one of them in years. My childhood was primarily a lesson on what not to do, but it also made me desperately want to establish a family-despite having no idea how something like that worked. I made my way into college where I got a Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering (BSME) degree and graduated with honors. I also tutored mathematics up to and including multivariable calculus along with qualifying for Mensa. Despite my education and abilities, I was never able to get an engineering job. My window of opportunity to have a family is now gone, and I spend 99% of my time alone hoping for a day to come along that makes me believe there's a reason to continue existing. The problem is that I'm reaching the point that no version of the future seems any less miserable than the rest. There simply is no path to goodness for men in society today. We are condemned and hated by many but praised by none, regardless of who or what we truly are or wish to be.

I haven't had a hug in 10 years. And now I'm on a watch list.

Pretty much sums it up. Im 35. Have a job, a place to live and do decently in terms of earning. Have a masters degree. I've been in a relationship for maybe 1 year of my life total. Why? Because I dont spend my life on my phone trying to find the perfect person. So instead im in a perpetual state of being alone wondering if I will every find someone. Sadly each year only makes me feel more and more like it's impossible and I never will. A degree doesn't even mater in this equation.

I've been on a Scott Galloway kick lately and I gotta say, he's got his finger on the pulse

He said women with degrees don't marry men without degrees and they started clapping. Imagine if that sentence was reversed. This audience will be dragged and cancelled before they leave the studio And there in lies the problem. Men's issue are treated on the scale of "we don't care" to "oh that's funny". NO ONE CARES. And that's ok. But don't tell us how to deal with the bad hand we've been dealt with.

I’m very glad this conversation is going mainstream

Great discussion - would like to hear more on this subject! It is not discussed enough as to the long-term impact of social media and online dating.

22 yo young man here, full time work, full time school, recently broke up with a gf of 2+ years. I blame nobody but myself for my situation but I can tell you I have never felt as lonely as I do now.

Gentlemen out there this is my two cents for what its worth: If you can't find a gal that excepts you for who you are. Stay nice to women but, go it alone. Stay kind to yourselves and others. Its not your fault. Do the best you can and maybe some lady will see that, maybe they never will. But find joy in living your life, no matter how small. I have had CP all my life. I can walk but, it looks like I'm and extra from central casting for the walking dead; its a turn off for people, especially women. I was broken from the gate and I've have a lot of friends that happen to be women and they like me but, not that way. That's okay. If a friend is all I can be-that's all I can be. I'm not gonna hate the world-I didn't make it this way. All I can do is bow to the absurd accept it and go on. I know my genes are okay for kids but people and only attracted to what they can see they make assumptions for everything else. That's okay. "In the dark we are all the same. It's only our knowledge and wisdom that separate us. Don't let your eyes deceive you." -Janet Jackson-Rhythm nation '89. I've lived by that saying since I was 8 years old and never forgotten it. When people fail you, remember that like a meditation-it heals. It really does.

Interesting points raised by Scott, and I'm sure there is a point in what he's saying. Social media it seems to me, is an oxymoron...

A bunch of lonely men. With a lot of energy to cause trouble. No good.

I feel like the audience on this show will applaud ANYTHING 👏

I think education and vocational training are keys to helping men be successful. When I say education, I don't necessarily mean a university. Many young men would do very well in trades such as welding, electrician, plumbing, etc. It would keep them busy and help them to learn problem solving. In addition, they would have much less debt from university and have a decent income. This would give young men much more to look forward to in life and I'm sure women would be interested in a man who is dedicated to a craft and has a steady income. Success doesn't always have to be a suit and tie.

Oh my God, people are talking about this. How surreal.

this segment hit me hard. I listened to it 3 times while on my morning walk. it really resonates with me. I finally calmed down in my life when I gave up looking over 20 years ago.

Great book on the subject “Men on Strike” by Helen Smith PhD Also “The Boy Crisis” by Warren Farrell

This issue needs to be addressed more aggressively. This is an actual emergency for our society. Men are constantly diminished in so many different ways. For example, I just saw an ad for Xfinity. In it, a couple is told about the advantages of a particular plan. The woman customer states "she can do better" with the woman salesperson acknowledging her. The male says the same thing and the salesperson politely smiles and looks down at her lap. The inference being that the woman can not only trade up her phone plan but she could get another mate. Yet the male is made to look as if he's lucky to be breathing the same air as his girlfriend. Despite no obvious differences in age, attractiveness or intelligence, we are conditioned to believe that the female can always do better and the males had better be happy with they've got. One should also consider the insidious way situation comedies and other television commercials constantly hammer the nonsense of the dumpy, stupid man who always gets into some trouble and the intelligent, pretty and perfect wife or girlfriend, giving him that look of "not again you stupid boob" and having to come to his rescue.

Joker was a documentary, a movie that reflects society like Taxi Driver from the 70's about the defeated man from the war that felt like sh*t.

Being a man in today's society means burying your feelings, doing a job without complaint, and never opening up to anyone but a current, trusted partner. Empathy doesn't figure into it. Socialization doesn't figure into it. Societies have become increasingly alienating and self isolating with better telecommunications. What else could the outcome be?

Very serious issue and a lot of great discussion here, but hearing Bill talk about Tinder made me realize how older people have no idea what is going on or what it is like.

The actual stat is 28% of men ages 18-30 reported no sex in the last year. A dramatic increase since 2008 or so when it was around 8%. The rise in male sexlessness roughly corresponds with the rise of smart phones and social media/online dating apps.

Every single guy I dated had a lower level of education than me. It was never an issue between us because once i was financially set, i just looked for someone who could make me laugh and wanted to go out and do fun things with me. However, i do see that a lot of women still have these ideas that men have to be "above" them in some capacity and that just isnt going to work in a modern society. Social media is great in some ways, but it does make people less social, give men extreamly unrealistic expectations beauty standards in women, and women very unrealistic standards in men's providing ability--especially in today's economy. People need to get out more, learn to value personal relationships beyond "what can you do for me", and we need a better economy so people can actually afford to go out.

I'm really surprised anyone is seriously asking why we have a problem here. Take two children in a family. In front of both of them put all of your positive focus and attention on one. Constantly give praise and encouragement at every natural ability. Tell them they can be and do anything. For the second child constantly demonize and demoralize them. Attack every natural ability they have while constantly telling them they have no inherent value and are toxic. Do we really have to guess what the outcome will be?

Many men are working trade jobs, most of which make a living. There are many unemployed people. Not just men. If women prefer a wealthy man then so be it. It's not like you're going to change them. I date women sometimes but they're robotic and boring. I prefer solitude over interacting with bs people. Some people say I have a high iq but all I care about is what I feel about myself while facing the mirror.

Baby boomers always say “work hard” a lot of people work hard and live in their cars. At this point telling younger generations they simply need to work hard to get ahead is trite and reductive

I have no friends, can't get a date and I feel like I'm dying from loneliness. At least its nice to hear this being talked about on a large scale now.

In the past I've complained a few times on message boards about how disastrous dating apps and sites have been for, well, dating. (I'm GenX so I remember when a guy actually had to *talk* to women.) Invariably I'd get responses from women saying something like, "What do you mean? Dating apps are fantastic! I met my husband on one!" Dating apps/sites are great for women, awful for men.

The bald guy hit the nail on the head, when people talk about this topic they always give vague opinions but this guy backed everything up with facts and research.

If you're gonna talk about young men, would probably make sense to have a young man on the panel to get their perspective. Work from home seems like the very last issue young men face, not least because those WFH jobs tend to be among the most well paid and are typically beyond those without degrees anyway.

I don't know who the bald guy with glasses is but he is very articulate on this subject. Great to hear his express concerns with what helps to build a stable society.

Literally speaking to my situation. Only thing with me is that I've never thought of picking up an AR15 and wiping out grocery stores, class rooms, nightclubs, etc....I think we know one group that commits those crimes. The part of not knowing how to speak to women: couldn't ring any more true. I Literally just deleted my tinder because of the embarrassing fails, and just an overall waste of time. Im not those women want, im just a simple go to work guy, who just found out the only girlfriend that truly loved him and truly loved her cheated on him after 6 years. I haven't had sex in over a year. Sadly today is my 29th bday and we'll be staying dry some more lol. Im not saying this proclaiming sex as the end-all be-all, but as a male, that shit is crucial for our being. I've gone to bars, only to do what Bill just said: playing on the phone. I don't have it in me to talk to women. My ex approached me (guess I'm that good looking enough). And on the job part, I agree that WFH is bad, thats why I always tell my boss that I'll pass on the opportunity and drive to office. When live in an ever growing isolated society, why add to that?? Fuck it I'll deal with traffic, idc, but I don't want to be in my room all day everyday. And I'll just end on this: it'd be really nice if I had the confidence to just go out and talk to women. Because of my lack of sex, it drives most of my thinking, which leads to bitterness, which leads to me not even attempting because I strike out all the damn time. So, this is why lonely guys never leave the house

The cheering in the beginning says EVERYTHING!