The original plot was originally going to be a Terminator style plot where Madame Web was trying to stop Ezekiel from killing a pregnant Mary Parker so she wouldn’t give birth to Peter Parker AKA Spider-Man
That sound way more better storyline and way more sense becuase with the amout of villain that Spiderman face, you would think there a villain that would go to the past and try to kill his parents....
I’ll never forget how the people making Morbius trailer gave so little of a shit about Spider-Man that they had references from all three of the live action Spider-Men. You had a screenshot of the Rami suit from the PS4 game. The Oscorp tower from the TASM movies in the background. And the word murderer graffitied over the previous Rami suit screenshot. Even though that was a reference to the ending of Far From Home aka the MCU Spider-Man. And then none of those references were in the final film because Sony had to quickly make it a multiverse related issue once No Way Home released because Sony couldn’t even be bothered to coordinate with Marvel as to how both of these universes are going to pan out. They literally do their own thing. Them see what Marvel’s doing at the time that gives them a billion dollars. Then quickly rush out the same thing hoping that their film will not flop twice in theatres. My god.
@@theamazingspooderman2697 Sony & Marvel’s current relationship is the equivalent to you doing a test, but the person sitting next to you keeps leaning over to see your answers even if they don’t know if they’re right or not. Sony keeps looking over Marvel’s shoulder to see what they’re doing even if it conflicts the with what they originally planned.
It's shocking Sony has never tried a Black Cat movie, given of all the Spider-Man universe characters she COULD make a movie without him. A super hero heist thriller, and unlike Kraven her entire existence is not dependent on Spider-Man existing to work.
Honestly knowing how studios work, I would not be surprised if the reason why Sony doesn't do a black cat movie is because she would be constantly compared to Catwoman who's a way more popular and recognizable character. This would cause multiple issues ranging from Warner Brothers being aggressive towards Sony to the point of possibly actually suing to, especially if any fault in the movie people comparing it to the Halle Berry Catwoman movie. And that's actually why they don't want to touch it. And it kind of makes sense now even though it's still dumb why they're going after mostly unknown villains that have no connections to other villain types that are popular because that way they can succeed and fail on their own merit rather than being compared to a way more popular thing. Kind of like now, even though there have been sassy superheroes since the beginning anytime. There's a jokey character, especially if they're violent. Everyone immediately compares them to Deadpool because that character is hugely popular and thus was everyone's introduction to that archetype.
@jordanwhite352 Sure, unlike 'Madame Web', the movie that is literally being compared to 'The Marvels'. It just makes no sense, if Sony is considering even unknown characters like Hypno Hustler, it's a no-brainer to not make a Black Cat movie. At least people will recognize her.
Cause Sony wants their own cinematic universe and the only IP they have is Spiderman, yet they couldn't use Tom Holland's Spiderman in any of their movies because that would mean EVERYTHING they make being directly tied to the MCU and its lore. For example, if Tom Holland's Peter Parker showed up in Morbius, that would mean Morbius canonically experienced the Thanos snap and he is aware of the Avengers and other MCU events. At that point, it's no longer Sony's cinematic universe, it's just a part of the Disney's MCU and Sony's movies would just be absorbed into the MCU. This is why Sony is trying to build a Spiderman cinematic universe WITHOUT Spiderman, and it's even more stupid than it sounds. If they wanted their Spiderman cinematic universe to work, they need to either bite the bullet and recast Tom Holland, or cast another actor to be Spiderman in their own cinematic universe, separated from Tom Holland and the MCU. The worst part is that Sony has Miles Morales right there. Just make him the face of the Sony's Spiderman universe and leave Tom Holland to be the MCU's Spiderman.
Yeah, Marvel you mean? Yep, nowadays, at least! They used to be so good and now they can't even get people to go and see them, and they can't even make a profit anymore, leading to them slowing down on the MCU releases and we're only getting one them this year! What a shame, bro!
To me Venom was lightning in a bottle was it perfect no but it was still enjoyable well to me it was and I think Venom worked (once) was because Venom has a fanbase with his own storylines, villains, characters
Venom is a good guy in the comics right now and there’s enough there to make a movie There isn’t enough there to make a f*ing Morbius movie. Madame Web could’ve worked cause of how many Spider-People there are and how tight Madame Web is to the lore of the Spider-Verse but they fumbled that movie so much
@@ColdTRexhonestly Considering how Venom is meant to be a parallel to Spider-Man they should have embraced making Venom the dark and edgy stand in for Spider-Man and make Kraven and morbius Venom villains instead of Spider-Man villains
This is proof that unlike everything people said last year about how audiences only want the best of the best movies and that's why many movies last year floped, audiences actually like movies that are full of problems but if they had something that they like the forget about those problems. "Is Venom a good movie? No. But I like the character of Venom so I don't mind"
Venom & Eddie have a good dynamic, you literally cannot have one without the other. It just makes it more interesting to watch than just one character with no strong relationships to anyone else. Plus Venom was more comedic, and easier to enjoy.
Bc venom was cheesy and gay and stuff actually happens so it’s naturally better than the boring nothings that morbius and madame web (although that one gets points for being so sexy) were
It seems that the plan might've been to make a Madame Web movie first and THEN make spin-offs/sequels starring the three Spider-Women in their own adventures. But given how they didn't even went with that plan and the movie flopped, don't expect to see any of the three in later films.
@@devofficialchannel Honestly, that’s just poor planning. Make the standalone film first then do the team-up later. It seems like common sense yet I can’t help but feel that Sony lacks that right now.
Honestly, it depends on who's writing him. Definitely not how the character debuted and he's gone through multiple arcs and interpretations, which is why the best comparison to venom would probably be Batman's joker who has also had wildly different interpretations from harmless prankster to insane a massive murderer and everything in between.
I find it sad that these are made so that Disney doesn’t take control of the deal they made with Sony to take Spider-Man to the MCU. If Sony keeps making movies like this, they’ll eventually have to give Disney the full control of Spider-Man and all characters related to him.
Yeah, I believe Sony needs to make a Spiderman related movie every so often, (I'm not sure if it has to be live action.) If they don't Spiderman goes back to marvel. Sony just can't sit on Spiderman and do nothing.
@@galaxytruth2823that Marvel spiderman 2017 cartoon was pretty bad. And I don’t think anyone talks about Spidey and his amazing friends the preschool show.
I don’t know why Sony thought they could make a Spider-Man universe, WITHOUT FRIGGIN SPIDER-MAN. I mean, that’s like making John wick movies, without John wi- oh wait, they are doing that
Tbf the John Wick universe is a lot more interesting without John wick than Spider-Man villains are without Spider-Man. There’s a reason morbius and kraven are called “spider-man villains” because there is nothing to care about without spider-man, you can’t have the villain without hero, while in John wick there are plenty of other characters for the creators to expand upon.
Imagine this instead. "Damn, pretty sinister of you." "...say that again." "Pretty sinister of you" "Guys, I know what to name our team." *cuts to black* SINI6TER
Fun fact: Morbius was teased as early as the first Blade movie (in an alternate ending), but the reason he never appeared in the Blade trilogy was because they wanted to make a solo film about him. Good call.
Venom and Morbius are more famous for being Spider-Man villains but sometimes they do act like Anti-heroes and even team up with Spider-Man. The same can’t be said about Kraven but he's more of a villain in the majority of his appearances in media
The same definitely cant be said about Kraven. Maybe about Kraven's son who had less of a rivalry with Spider-Man, but og Kraven is a villain though and though. Its by far the most absurd choice of character to get a sólo movie for. And yet, it does look like its going to be better than Morbius and Madame Web convined. Which isnt saying much, but it would at least break Sony's awful track récord.
@zingspooderman2697 I actually vehemently disagree with you on that - even taking into account that it's one-half of a much longer movie, Across the SpiderVerse is good, even excellent and was definitely one of my favourite movies of 2023. But I guess it's not surprising that there's a dark secret behind WHY it looks so good. In conclusion, there's a lesson somewhere in this: every time you receive a high-quality product, ALWAYS assume that actual blood was shed in making it.
I think it's hilarious that the only cinematic universe, other than the MCU, that is successful and still going strong, is the Monsterverse. Motherfucking Godzilla
I think it's because of how straightforward and sparse it is, like, 2 godzilla movies, 1 kong movie and 2 godzilla and kong movies, most of which work as standalone films
What's worst is that this could have been Sony's own Doctor Strange style movie, a film full of spectacular visuals, deal with dimensions and even have magic fights in the same vein as Harry Potter/Lord of Rings with monsters out of this world.... but this movie doesnt even know what to be: - is this a comedy? Then the jokes are nowhere funny - is this an adventure? If so, then its the most boring adventure ever since they go to just a few places in New York on a stolen Taxi throughout the movie and going from USA to Peru in a matter of minutes. - is this supposed to be a drama? Then Dakota Johnson cant make you feel empathy for the character. - is this a horror movie? The only horror is how atrocious the CGI is
Exactly. They had the chance to make a 'Final Destination' movie with Madame Web showing up in visions to Spider-Woman guiding pregnant Mary Parker to escape Morlun from devouring her baby. Spider-Woman getting to see multiple universes through the web of destiny like Spiderverse animation did, would've been awesome.
The idea of Spider-Man just having his entire rogues gallery in several movies and cinematic universes that he can't show up in but it doesn't matter since they're all good people is super funny to me.
I love the Morbius memes as much as the next man but it wasn't until this video that I realised why they came about in the first place; the film is vacuous. There's just nothing there except a great hammy performance from Matt Smith and some decent horror sequences. I personally expect Kraven to underperform due to the lack of audience interest in the character, Venom 3 to probably succeed off the back of Tom Hardy and hopefully Sony will realise these films aren't landing with audiences and will just continue with the Spider-Verse films. Great video btw and so happy to see you jumping back into video essays.
I think my biggest dissapointment with the firdt Venim movie was that all the symbiotes died except, Venom and Riot, they could've easily turned the others into villains for more movies and made even more money
To be fair to the Kraven movie, the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon also turned Kraven into an animal lover who turns into a lion furry... for some reason.
@@ClassifiedRanTom What do you mean disagree? He was an animal lover in that show and he also turned into a lion man. Those both happened, regardless of the reason. That's most likely what Sony is looking at for the movie.
I've seen it and I'll be honest, it was a massive letdown. The action wasn't terrible and there were some scenes that I liked. But the characters were dull, the main teen leads were annoying, the villain was bland and forgettable and Madame Webb's powers were underwhelming. The music wasn't awful and it had a decent soundtrack. But it was overall a "meh" movie. The most redeeming quality was the special effects. It's a bad movie but at least it isn't Morbius. Wonka was a decent movie in comparison but when compared to Madame Webb, a lot of the scenes and characters were forgettable too and none of the songs are all that memorable to me either. But it was a better experience overall though. Still liked the Canterville Ghost more though.
A personal issue I have with a lot of these “comic book films”nowadays is that they don’t seem to go full comic book. It’s like just because it’s live action it always has to fit into the real world. I want to see the full comic side in live action. Goofy costumes and all lol as long as it has good writing and all that other jazz then it’s perfectly fine imo. Now that’s not to say the comic book films that try the more realistic approach can’t be good. Joker for example didn’t necessarily feel like a straight up comic book movie to me but is still really good. Lately I’ve been preferring watching animated series over live action because it’s like the comics brought to life basically. Spider-Man (2002) is a great example of what I consider a comic brought to life in live action, it gives me that feel.
The funny thing is, going full comic book like invisible would be the most original idea now. Since there’s never been an accurate live action comic book movie
@@randomgamer625 Exactly and it’s really that simple to me. I know live action and animation are different but I honestly wish they would take more notes from the animated side. Sometimes I watch the shows and think “if they would just do this but in live action it would be great”.
@@kang6914 eh, animation can make anything look good due to the nature that you can do whatever you want with no limitations. What pisses me off however is that for some ungodly reason we as a society have this mentality that “art” isn’t valid until it’s live action No matter how legendary shows like Ben 10, static shock, Batman beyond, generator Rex, gravity falls and more. There never accepted until there live action for some reason and it’s sad to see that honestly
@@randomgamer625 I totally agree I’ve literally been saying the same about animation, it always seems to be this stigma like it can’t be taken as serious and just genuinely great content compared to live action. I personally enjoy it just as much if not more at times. I also agree animation can pull off things that sometimes live action can’t or may not be as believable.
I remember back when Josh Trank made Fant4stic. On one hand, it tries to be a gritty body horror film (which feels so out of place for Fantastic Four). On the other, Fox interfered just so they can make the movie copy the MCU (which makes it more bland, derivative and tonally clashing the edginess). Both ideas end up shit and people outright forgot about the movie besides the terrible quality.
Kraven is by far the most absurd of these movies because at least venom and morbius are actually anti-hero’s in the books and have actual solo runs to take from… (not that it was done well).. but kraven so reliant on Spider-Man as a character and is straight up fucked in the head that the anti-hero route with him really don’t make any sense.
I still don't fully get the deal lol. So Sony can't use Spider-Man at all? Not even Miles Morales? Is that why Madam Web never put on the costume? It was too Spidery?
8:49 the venom movies are actually good because they take inspiration from the lethal protector comics from the 80’s Venom 2 especially takes from the 80’s and actually talks like Venom
Toei will make a hard deal to introduce the best Japanese Spider-Man ever to Sony! But they can make amends as they please, since both are Japanese corps.
1. We honestly owe Morbius an apology after Madam Web. 2. Could you make a video (or videos) of how you'd fix the Sony verse (and maybe make it canon in the mcu?)
Actually morbius, at least in the ultimate timeline, is a vampire that stops more evil vampires and tries to save those who are almost on the verge of turning into one
I was excited for Kraven despite the changes they made. Aaron Taylor Johnson is a great actor, and I think he could do well in the role. After Madame Web though, I don’t know if I can confidently say I’m interested. Might wait until it’s on streaming or whatever
It would be cooler if they made it like a villain origin story. Maybe Kraven starts off as a genuinely nice guy before his killings eventually make him desensitised to violence and he slowly becomes more evil.
So take this with a grain of salt since this is a rumor and a rumor. I hopefully doesn’t come to fruition there might be a uncle Ben movie I don’t even know what they’re gonna do with him in that movie but already thinking about it ain’t gonna be great. Think Sony has gone for them is the spiderverse third movie comes out they got nothing they just stick to because somehow they’re much more better at that than making movies. Also there’s a really give back to Spider-Man rights to Marvel because they’re trying to do like a Multiverse thing and the fourth movie which doesn’t make sense since the third movie revolved around the Multiverse. At what Marvel‘s approach more of a grounded, Spider-Man movie the concept is that Spider-Man is trying to stop the kingpin because he’s trying to ban superheroes in New York and he teams up with the scorpion
To be fair Venom hasn't really been a villain for a long time. As far as I know the last time he was actually a villain was when Mac Gargan had him but I feel that was more of Mac being a villain. I guess there was the whole thing with Lee who forced Venom to do some bad stuff but I don't know if he was a straight up villain during that time
Venom is a but more of a anti-hero due having his own spinoff comics going back to the 90s. He one of the more popular Spiderman characters. The only other character that can probably carry her own movie is black cat. No other character needs a movie.
I don’t like the idea of a black cat movie unless they can figure out how to make a heist or spy movie interesting Aka the tropes where everything goes wrong but it’s actually revealed to be part of an over the top plan
It's like with every gem that Sony puts out (Spiderverse, The Spider-Man Home movies), there's always the trash that comes along with it (Madame Web, Morbius)
I heard that originally, riot, the evil venom of the first movie, was meant to be a twist. That whole six months thing was actually meant to happen much earlier in the movie, like RIGHT AFTER the title. The whole thing about the bad guy being obsessed with finding the alien and saying “we” with the bunny experiment was meant to be hints that he was bonded to Riot and the “where’s venom” scene was meant to be the “big reveal” and the explanation. Apparently, the reason why it was changed was because test audiences founded to predictable and the filmmakers chose to go in a “tensioning building route” instead.
