Living the best life to me is a quiet life. Simple. People like to live large just to impress others so they can attract mates... And ring around the rosey we go again.
Most of human existence was pretty quiet. Its only the past couple decades we are living in this crazy overpopulated loud world where you can never stop.
Most of people have children because it's either they saw their friends/relatives had one or due to family pressure or even because it was accidental (and unfortunately such cases aren't uncommon, teen pregnancy is even more disturbing). They all on social media act like they've made the greatest achievement ever in the human history by adding another life to the 8 billion other ones. It's ridiculous
Very true. I’ve recently come to the realisation that what passes as civilisation is basically juvenile behaviour revolving around satisfying the ego, the animal side of the human being, so that we gain value only as a human doing.
@@cat_city2009 lol so why is sleeping better than when you’re awake?? 😬 non existence is like sleep but better.. babies even cry when they are born into this horrid world..
I'm 35 , and I have no children. That will not change. Simply put, having a child in this day and age is condemning them to exist in what I believe will be one of the most tumultuous periods in human history.
If you study history for 10 minutes, you will realise that there was never a 'day and age'' when it was ideal to pump out units into this hell hole without their consent/permission. The only thing a parent can guarantee to their children is suffering and death.
i don't think the number is that small nowadays. we are more and more people that believe and embrace this way thinking and seeing the world. both men and women, not just men
the problem is most people don't even know how to think, their emotions speak much louder than logic, thats why the world is so fucked up, everything is irrational and if we were all very logical we wouldn't exist
Sadly most people don't 'think' (enough) about the consequences of having children. Bringing a child into the world without considering all the implications it can have, for the world, and for the child, is not something most people do.
I am 76 yo and my choice has always been, since I was quite young, to protect my children from this dangerous world by not having them. Not only that I was not fit to be a parent or even make it in this world myself. My mother was unable to choose but would have, and I agreed with her - I would have chosen to not be born. I am abhorred at the political power in the U.S. at this point to force people to give birth.
We are even blocked from finding these videis we relate to because of this sick society. We are taught to keep the suffering flowing we are food for forces that thrive off of our pain and suffering, misery, despair.. It's a utter sick hell and I hate human beings for allowing this to happen.
Exactly! RU-vid and ALL the social medias block many of the Antinatalist videos. They delete many of my comments etc. We need to create our own AN platform where we will Not be censored.
So you want humanity to get rid of what was the most crucial thing for us to evolve? Man, I’m not surprised why people consider anti-natalism such a sick movement, and people who say that are goddamn right.
Most humans who procreate have narcissistic mindset, I love people who adopt they're full of altruism. Humans are not slave of selfish gene , I want humanity to proceed further but not the way it is today - Full of irrationality, unsustainable development, deforestation, violence & abuse , insatiable greed , unscientific thinking, egotistical attitude, exploitative tactics & prejudice against fellow humans .
You just have to keep the conversation and awareness going, those are the necessary requirements. Very, very few people have ever heard about Antinatalism and merely the thought of it is an anathema to most people as it goes against, well, our innate selfishness of wanting to see MY genes and MY inheritance passed on to MY children. People say that Antinatalists are selfish but I would argue the opposite......
Hello sir I think you are saying very important point, can I talk to you about this issue? i just have no antinatalists around me, so if you are one let's talk, do you have discord skype or telegram?
I am very open minded and that is why I read up more on this topic and fully agree with the concept of stopping reproduction to prevent future suffering. But most people have an intense reaction to the idea, and I can understand as it can appear quite depressing and negative but fundamentally the idea is to stop suffering for future generations
The problem isn't the consent of the newborn, it's the condition of the world you're forcing them to live through. When i see images of malnourished infants and working toddlers, i really get depressed and i know deep down that i couldn't insure that wouldn't happen if i get children of my own, due to the state of the country i live in, and in a bigger picture, the thermonuclear war that's looming.
You are wrong. The entire problem is of consent alone. Even if the world was great doesn't guarantee the potential child wouldn't cut his hands or chop his legs or suffer from cancer or childhood abuse and trauma.
Most people who support having children and either privileged by living in a modern society with all its benefits or profoundly ignorant or are sadists. It takes certain kind of person to perpetuate the cycle of pain and suffering, how many times have you heard people as a collective say things like, "suck it up, man up, toughen up, you'll be okay, pull yourself up by your bootstraps etc.." these are the kinds of people who are so accustomed by the worlds hardships they lean towards the pain and have some weird kink with suffering and coming out on top. Am I selfish for not wanting to suffer? to not want to feel pain? to not be sad, to only want happiness? so many people deny their basic needs as a person and just ignore them. I admit, this life has warped my view on things too, I sometimes say harsh things to myself, "tough shit, so what, you're getting in your head etc.." it's what this abuse simulator does to you, it changes your personality as you get older and experience more hardships and pain. Evolution designed it to where animals seek to spread their genes and not think about the repercussions and ramifications of it, but we are thinking beings and should know better and truly consider if it is worth it given the world we live in.
In my opinion antinatalist people, already understand what is all about, and the most important we are not selfish, we love so much our "unborn childrens" that is better leave then in the nothing, makes me happy find more and more people sharing my ideas, really hope this continue to grow, would love to meet more people can I leave my skypr our number? Our could you find a safe way to all people here, make a group? Greetings from Spain.
Yo! Ya te contare I would like to join in the Antinatalist group. Kindly send me a link or joining instructions. I am happy to see other similiar people.
reason why a lot of ppl don't "get" the consent arguement is because they simply don't want to be held accountable for the fact that it was their selfish choice to make babies not the other way around, agreeing with the consent arguement would mean that they are fully responsible for their kids' wellbeing up until the moment they leave this realm
A thing that a lot of people fail to understand is having real consent means having free will but there is no evidence of such a thing as free will. We are the way we are as a product of environment, the randomness of the universe and the collective human knowledge which in turn was created through the former forces.
Hearing the argument again just made me realize I'm an anti-natalist for a slightly different reason. For me, it's not about the joy/suffering balance, it's simply the pointlessness of life. But I have no idea how to argue against that. I guess I wouldn't. But yeah, it might take a contrarian mind to begin with. I remember being a kid wondering why people celebrated the news of a relative being pregnant. I thought 1. It was disgusting that they knew about it and 2. Why was that viewed as something good? I still think that. I don't think you can pass it on to anyone. It might be like an obscure fetish where you only find the people that are like you.
David Benatar, the leading figure of antinatalism, wrote a book called 'Human Predicament'. It consists of dealing with the subject of the meaninglessness of life. You might want to check it out.
I loved your thoughtful non judgmental video. You explained your decision very sensitively without condemning others for their choice. Fellow antinatalist here.
I completely agree with you, Mr. Clement. I'm a 42 year old woman and definitely agree with antinatalism. My reasons have to do with the various kinds of suffering we as people go through. I also feel for other animal species that are harmed because of our own species existing. I have serious health issues. One of them I was born with which has caused a lot of problems since I was kid. I don't want to pass on bad genes, but I also know whether I had great genes and no PTSD, I'd still be taking risks bringing them here. They'd still have to pass on at some point too and it's different for all of us. There's a Ted Talk where a medical doctor discusses the four ways we pass away and one of them involves dying slowly. He said most people die that way and it's rare to die a quick and painless death. I think that video alone should make most sane people not bother having biological kids. There's many ways to be around kids or help children who are already here without having their own. Anyway, thank you so much for this video.
The hurting of other species and the cruelty of the human kind is one of the reasons why I choose to not procreate and further promote this species of people. Carnivores and sadists with fantasies for their miniscule benefit turned me off.
I want to thank you for the what seems like fair and honest thoughts. Whenever I read or watch something about anti-natalism, I have a two part response: 1. How much of this is about feeling alienated, separate, not part of something larger? 2. I respect the ability to have these convictions and yet live in a supportive way within a community.
Wonderful video! You asked for comments on what one does to enjoy life more. I really like living in a region with mountains and clear water. Currently I live in the southeastern US and do not care for the topography or lack of clear water. My plan is to move someday.
"If children were brought into the world by an act of pure reason alone, would the human race continue to exist? Would not a man rather have so much sympathy with the coming generation as to spare it the burden of existence, or at any rate not take it upon himself to impose that burden upon it in cold blood?" Arthur Schopenhauer
I have no antinatalist around me, but I am interested in talking to one because I think people like you are smarter and wiser than others, so if you have some time let's talk, do you have discord skype or telegram? Let's talk
Theoratically no . Antinatalism is a real choice and desire to NEVER TO HAVE KIDS. If you still intend to conceive , that is not called antinatalism, i called that stupidity
Vídeo justo colega. Também não me importo se as pessoas adotem ou não a filosofia AN, o importante para mim é eu seguir com esse princípio: 1. Não há consentimento por parte do meu hipotético filho, portanto, não acho justo colocá-lo aqui sabendo que esta vida pode machucar. E vai. 2. Acredito que viver minha liberdade, sem dependentes, é a melhor maneira de desfrutar do que quer que seja isto. Como eu disse, não acho que as pessoas são obrigadas a ser AN, assim como não sou obrigado ter filhos também. Precisamos tomar cuidado com extremismos.
No it won't. Animals living in nature will still suffer and die as they rip each other apart just to survive. Even without humanity, this world would be hell IMO.
The reason is because it's an antihuman and cynical view on human life, if everyone was antinatalist it would absolutely lead a to a societal collapse and we have a drive to reproduce because we want to one pass on our genes but also to strive for others and something greater than ourselves and to many of us nothing is greater than nurturing the next generation
Interesting. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm an antinatalist. However, I do fervently believe that society doesn't give nearly enough thanks to those who have been responsible enough to not get pregnant (or cause someone else to be pregnant) in less than optimal circumstances. There's a pervasive narrative that parents, especially mothers, are somehow heroes. Sometimes they can be. But often they're not. Reproducing when circumstances are terrible, is the opposite of heroic! For my own part, I actually theoretically love the idea of being a mother. But with the climate crisis etc, I honestly would feel guilty if I reproduced now. I'm in the UK, and society is starting to collapse here, it really is. Most people seem to be in denial unfortunately. Anyway, I'm currently single and celibate, so that's that. I pour my maternal energy into caring for animals, plants, art projects and also pre-existing people. Hopefully, in a parallel universe somewhere, in a less messed up world, there's another version of me that is a mother of many... 😊
@@ANTINATALIST_lewis Even though I could not come up with ONE logical and or ethical and or moral reason to force innocent beings into this hell hole without their consent/permission and I also understand that the ONLY things I can guarantee for my future kids is unimaginable suffering and death, I AM STILL ready to FORCE innocent beings into this hell hole without their consent/permission because I am: irresponsible, selfish, poor, lonely, shallow, stupid, bored and megalomaniac with hero complex and virtue signalling syndrome. I am going to be absolutely so happy and proud and joyful when my kids will become future: pharmaceutical/medical industrial complex’ life long clients/victims, prison/military industrial complex clients/victims, fascists, satanists, totalitarian single digit IQ nobodies, communists, marxists, bolsheviks, leninists, SJWs, BLMs, socialists, mercenaries, religious freaks wearing funny clothing and head coverings spreading ‘peace’, prostitutes/escorts/sugar babies, sugar daddies/sugar mamas, female rapists, pimps, welfare/benefit queens/kings, cartel members, starving people, broke(n)/bankrupt people from all points of views, hitmen/hitwomen/assassins, murderers, witches/warlocks who curse others, murderers wearing uniforms-badges/white coats-stethoscopes/suits-ties, abused people, abusers/users, drunkards, drug addicts, drug dealers, alcoholics, homeless, gang/mafia members, suicide victims, bullies, bullied people, torturers, tortured people, mentally and physically handicapped people, orphans, victims of organ harvesting and human trafficking, single mother victims, dead soldiers, racist group gang members, prostitutes, residents of hell, debt slaves, suckers to participate in the rat race that enables the world wide criminal syndicate(royalty, bankers etc.) to stay rich and become richer.
Even though I could not come up with ONE logical and or ethical and or moral reason to force innocent beings into this hell hole without their consent/permission and I also understand that the ONLY things I can guarantee for my future kids is unimaginable suffering and death, I AM STILL ready to FORCE innocent beings into this hell hole without their consent/permission because I am: irresponsible, selfish, poor, lonely, shallow, stupid, bored and megalomaniac with hero complex and virtue signalling syndrome. I am going to be absolutely so happy and proud and joyful when my kids will become future: pharmaceutical/medical industrial complex’ life long clients/victims, prison/military industrial complex clients/victims, fascists, satanists, totalitarian single digit IQ nobodies, communists, marxists, bolsheviks, leninists, SJWs, BLMs, socialists, mercenaries, religious freaks wearing funny clothing and head coverings spreading ‘peace’, prostitutes/escorts/sugar babies, sugar daddies/sugar mamas, female rapists, pimps, welfare/benefit queens/kings, cartel members, starving people, broke(n)/bankrupt people from all points of views, hitmen/hitwomen/assassins, murderers, witches/warlocks who curse others, murderers wearing uniforms-badges/white coats-stethoscopes/suits-ties, abused people, abusers/users, drunkards, drug addicts, drug dealers, alcoholics, homeless, gang/mafia members, suicide victims, bullies, bullied people, torturers, tortured people, mentally and physically handicapped people, orphans, victims of organ harvesting and human trafficking, single mother victims, dead soldiers, racist group gang members, prostitutes, residents of hell, debt slaves, suckers to participate in the rat race that enables the world wide criminal syndicate(royalty, bankers etc.) to stay rich and become richer. cccccccccc
Yes Dr. Mackler says the same thing we need a new form,, I write about how we need new sexual selection & species child rearing & no more 'families' wombs sperm (instead safe sex separate from reproducing) Humans place too high a value on sex (interesting fact evolutionary fact) to reproduce biologically so we need to give children rights raise them as one huge family instead At least we'd end prisons punishment to prevent mental illness and brain damage and instead develop a permission system with accountability safety
We all must die and we all come into existence to face the knowledge of our eventual nonexistence. And that is not someone everyone faces without a lot of pain which is why there are religions which promise eternal life. And these religions dominate our culture. Nothing wants to die, everything has to. So why bother being born at all? Why put others though the very life/death cycle that you yourself are trying to avoid by replicating your genes?
Benatar's Antinatalism is actually quite illogical, because _there are only the experiences that are being done by living brains._ We we're not resting in peace before we existed... There are no black voids that people come out of in order to "come into existence". He imagines a state of peaceful non-existence that somehow allows the person or animal that doesn't exist to enjoy non-experience, or _an experience of no experience_ ... *Right now, there are only the experiences that there are* ... The ones being done (or being had) by all of the living brains... There are no "unborn children" currently in some sort of state of deprivation from the experiences that are occuring right now (the ones being done by the brains that currently exist -- as consciousness is a function of the brain). The only why to block other experience, is to be born and have your own experience... Otherwise, if you hadn't been born, then instead of "your" experience right now, it'd simply be one of the experiences that _are_ occuring right now - one that's being done by some other brain. This makes Benatar's Antinatalism futile. If you hadn't been born, there's still experience occuring - it's being done by other brains. Imagine this brain (pictured below) is you, and you're *all alone* in the universe. There's only you - and so there's only this one conscious experience... I'll put lines above and below to represent the universe: ______________________________________________ 🧠 ______________________________________________ Now imagine you die. So now there's no brain doing consciousness/experience. You're not in a black void, and there's no "black screen", or any of that... ______________________________________________ ______________________________________________ But then, a few years later (or longer...) a completely different and new brain comes to exist somewhere else in the universe - perhaps light-years away: ______________________________________________ 🧠 ______________________________________________ So now _that's_ the only experience/consciousness that's occuring. It's the only experience there is. You're not in a state of deprivation appreciating being spared from that second experience, because that would require you to exist. That second experience is the only experience there is. You don't exist at all. There's only that living brain and the consciousness it's doing. You didn't go into that new brain - it's a simple matter of there being experience after the first experience ended. So the second experience came after the first. So if you died right now you wouldn't be spared from experience because you won't exist anymore, and there will be other brains doing consciousness at that point in time. Which means that experience is unavoidable, because only experience is what's experienced. You cannot have a non-experience.
I think it depends on whether or not you believe that the prevention of suffering is the ultimate moral good. I think preventing suffering is part of a higher moral good of human flourishing. Life itself is remarkable and beautiful and especially human life. I think that human experience, endeavor, achievement is worth it.
You destroy yourself by abstaining from procreation? Are the millions of childless adults walking phantoms? The redeeming characteristic is that one does not make themselves responsible for someone else's life and death.
I have no idea why this video ended up in my feed, but to answer the question: because it's literally insane to be an anti-natalist. It's against everything you're biologically programmed to do, and resisting this programming doesn't make you more noble, or more unique, it just makes you the ultimate form of a blind contrarian.
They are broken people. I used to feel sad for them, and for some I still do. But most are living purely out of spite, they want to bring humanity down to their level as some sort of "revenge". They think it's beautiful to watch the world burn, and even more beautiful to be the arsonist that starts the fire. I wish them help and thank god that these people don't reproduce. It's disgusting that they still try to reproduce their f'd up ideology through propaganda and pseudointellectualism though and get other people to be dead ends and disappointments to the millions of men and women who lived, suffered, and died to put them here.
@elijahcr121Most Antinatalists are in Western Countries. The west is suffering from birth rate decline and insufficient able-bodied people to bring wealth to their society. Isn't it more logical to bring more children into this world to offset the large bulge of the retirees in a society? The economic issues will only get worse and a populated society will out compete a depopulated one.
breeding, because misery loves company and the billionaires must be kept filthy rich via providing them endless numbers of slaves and future corpses (keeps the cemetery industrial complex filthy rich)...@@user-qf5kl6cv2y
@@flochforster7864 breeding, because misery loves company and the billionaires must be kept filthy rich via providing them endless numbers of slaves and future corpses (keeps the cemetery industrial complex filthy rich).....
Even in animal world some species refuse to breee to make balance, educate yourself...and why most people don't like their kids and vice versa? People just have urge to have sex, and they mistakenly think it's urge to breed so that's why there we are here
The following is my reflection on a conversation between Jordan Peterson and David Benatar... David tried to suggest that amputating a limb was somehow akin to bringing a child into a predominantly horrific world. It was clumsy because, on the one hand, the suffering of the world goes way beyond a limb's amputation. The analogy is horrible also insofar as it doesn't address the immeasurable good that can arise through existence. The prison analogy fell short for similar reasons. Neither the prison nor limb analogy does due justice to the possibility that by bringing a child into the world, the child can develop ethically, can express generosity and love, in fact embody love, can create marvelous art or introduce innovations, and so on. I don't mean the child can be of the caliber of Beethoven or Einstein (though it's possible); I just mean he/she can still make some important contribution, can help others in some way. How we view the world is dependent on our minds. A meditative mind can, for example, avert a lot of unnecessary suffering, both for the individual and for those around. I mention this point because choosing to regard the world as a prison or bringing a child into the world as limb amputation is based on a particular state of mind, like focusing on one TV channel, although you may have at least a 100 channels. Jordan is quite right in pointing out that bringing a child into the world is not an imposition, but an opportunity - not in all cases, but in many of them. A child's development of mind can be such as to regard the world as a prison, but with sufficient love and refinement of mind it may well wind up seeing the world differently, in far richer, more positive ways. I'm not suggesting, as David has, that we can do great good within the context of the prison, but that with sufficient psychic development the prison can cease to be. Recall John Milton's legendary lines: "The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven" Antinatalism, as articulated here, has the following problem. David tries to make a distinction between claims made for those already living and the non-existent. The point is that no distinction can be made : any arguments you have must necessarily deal with existence. In other words, for the non-existent there's neither good nor bad, neither interest nor non-interest. You can't direct an argument in relation to the non-existent simply because there's no one existing for whom the argument is valid. You can only make judgements in relation to those already living because you can observe their lives, how their lives are unfolding, what their conditions are. You can consider their temperament, their beliefs, etc. Now this is where euthanasia is possibly justified. Through assessment and observation, by hearing what a patient wants, all may be agreed that the ending of life may be justified, even compassionate. On a related note, David speaks of a desire possibly being "thwarted" even after a person's death, which is nonsense (from a materialistic perspective) because only a living being desires something. Only within the context of life can a desire be either satisfied or thwarted, because desire itself is a manifestation, or sign, of life. Desire requires consciousness or awareness, however basic, at the very least sentience. Without any of these, there's no desire. In the case of actual death, there is no "you" whose desire can be thwarted. (Unless you want to suggest the possibility that one hasn't REALLY died, though the body is dead, which many people claim.) The belief that "they didn't choose to exist", but that the would-be parents made the choice seems a truism, but it's also silly if you look at it carefully. You cannot be acting cruelly toward someone who doesn't yet exist, simply because of the assumption of non-existence. There's as yet no one to whom the would-be parents can be cruel. Or to bring up the term "imposition" or "imposing", used in this dialogue, you cannot impose upon the non-existent, because imposition is relational; there's as yet no relation, no one to impose upon. For similar reasons it's silly to speak of choice, because there's as yet no chooser (no choosing for or against). Only the living, the would-be parents can choose. Again, this gets us back to the living: only in the context of the living are judgements valid, do they even play a role. You can't say something's good or bad for the non-existent because good and bad only apply to living subjects. Now if a foetus, for example, has been found with serious genetic defects, then, yes, the would-be parents may (or may not) choose to abort. That being said, with existence as the foundation, we can make choices - whether it's worth continuing to exist, notwithstanding the suffering. Since people deal with suffering differently, since they have different beliefs, attitudes, temperaments, they'll experience suffering differently. To one who suffers greatly, but who can produce great art in the process, will have a different view from someone who has no such lofty prospects. Someone with much love to give and who is loved may, notwithstanding great suffering, choose to go on - in contrast to someone without those gifts. The point is that since people turn out so differently, it's rather simplistic (perhaps even misguided) to attempt some sort of antinatalist ethic. With so much variability, in terms of what meanings people assign to suffering, with some people seeing it as pointless and others as gateways into character development, compassion, etc, the attempt to set up this ethic is ridiculous. Another thing: don't be sure that only the would-be parents are responsible for bringing the child into the world. How does one know that? It may be that would-be children in some sense exist (as floating consciousnesses) and are pulled back into the cycle of birth and death, as Buddhists claim. So "compassionate" couples who choose not to have children will not necessarily prevent birth. According to Buddhists, it's ignorance, desire, attachment of some kind that propels a given consciousness back into the cycle. Don't simply assume that only would-be parents are responsible. The Buddhist suggestion is that the ordinary disembodied consciousness winds up exactly where it belongs on the basis of its karma. There are countless wombs available, so even with some antinatalist couples around, birth will occur inevitably (according to Buddhists), unless a given consciousness is awakened. It is said that the ignorant are reborn, with boddhistavas being the exception (enlightened or near-enlightened beings who return out of compassion, to help and teach others). My point is not that I think Buddhists are right, though they might be. David and many other antinatalists are presenting arguments on the assumption that only would-be parents are responsible for a child's being born. We simply don't know. As for claims about a disembodied consciousness, they're not necessarily silly or outlandish. Stuart Hameroff, respected biologist and collaborator with Sir Roger Penrose, himself posits that consciousness doesn't necessarily have its roots in neurobiology, or the material world, but that a proto-type consciousness (with mathematical values) extends into the quantum world, well beneath the Planck scale. So it's consistent with some Buddhist beliefs. Meaning: he thinks a disembodied "quantum soul" might inhabit that realm, temporarily at least, before re-entering a womb.
Even though I could not come up with ONE logical and or ethical and or moral reason to force innocent beings into this hell hole without their consent/permission and I also understand that the ONLY things I can guarantee for my future kids is unimaginable suffering and death, I AM STILL ready to FORCE innocent beings into this hell hole without their consent/permission because I am: irresponsible, selfish, poor, lonely, shallow, stupid, bored and megalomaniac with hero complex and virtue signalling syndrome. I am going to be absolutely so happy and proud and joyful when my kids will become future: pharmaceutical/medical industrial complex’ life long clients/victims, prison/military industrial complex clients/victims, fascists, satanists, totalitarian single digit IQ nobodies, communists, marxists, bolsheviks, leninists, SJWs, BLMs, socialists, mercenaries, religious freaks wearing funny clothing and head coverings spreading ‘peace’, prostitutes/escorts/sugar babies, sugar daddies/sugar mamas, female rapists, pimps, welfare/benefit queens/kings, cartel members, starving people, broke(n)/bankrupt people from all points of views, hitmen/hitwomen/assassins, murderers, witches/warlocks who curse others, murderers wearing uniforms-badges/white coats-stethoscopes/suits-ties, abused people, abusers/users, drunkards, drug addicts, drug dealers, alcoholics, homeless, gang/mafia members, suicide victims, bullies, bullied people, torturers, tortured people, mentally and physically handicapped people, orphans, victims of organ harvesting and human trafficking, single mother victims, dead soldiers, racist group gang members, prostitutes, residents of hell, debt slaves, suckers to participate in the rat race that enables the world wide criminal syndicate(royalty, bankers etc.) to stay rich and become richer.
I’m not an AntiNanalist. Life isn’t bad for all People. So Reason why there are few AntiNanalists is because they realize is Life isn’t that bad. You’ll find some happiness and if you want kids of your own Stop being an AntiNanalists.
“Why are there so few anti-natalists?” Well for one thing, suicidal people, and in the case of anti stalker philosophy it’s more like genocidal people, don’t pass on their genes as much as sane people do.
@@Lilboozibert Nah, not interested in this philosophical suicide cult. RU-vid recommended this to me for no reason. Needless to say, this isn't the only time the world has been hard to live in, people didn't give up then and they shouldn't now. Unless you think dying alone eating cheetos and watching Rick and Morty will make anything better.
@@bacreeton maybe if you watched you'd realise that suicide isn't even remotely apart of it. There's the analogy of life being a bad movie; if you knew it was bad before hand you wouldn't go to the cinema, but since we are already here leaving would cause suffering for the friends we have around us. No one is claiming suicide is the answer here, you are literally fighting a ghost argument.
Because our world needs a future. If we refuse to reproduce, we also refuse our own motive to create a better world. I would rather see my hands bleed to watch the rose in my garden bloom than die with soft hands that have never touched soil. Suffering is inevitable, it always has been and always will be. But to endure it all is a greater testament to our existence. Also I'm gonna need someone to hold the flashlight while I swear at my car one day.
I don't agree with some of the assertions that antinatalism makes is one problem I have. The idea that life is more pain than pleasure can't be applied universally to people. Human life experience is not equal and to some degree has to be judged on an individual basis. Some people do very much experience more pleasure than pain and suffering. Some people have better genetics. Some people have more luck. Some people don't live into their old age. Antinatalism is internally consistent in it's beliefs but like all philosophies is requires you to have faith in it's axioms which are as subjective as any other philosophy out there. Believing pain is bad/unnecessary and pleasure is good/necessary is a belief not a fact.
It's not that simple at all because the flip side of that argument is the unconceived wont experience contentment either. It's the glaring elephant in the room. You've also glared over the fact that the belief that life should not exist because of the presence of suffering is not a belief that everyone holds. @@txlyons2937
So what is the basis for your personal antinatalist beliefs? Is the basis that if just one person suffers then that should justify the eradication of all life? That's quite easy to argue against. Is it that if there is a greater degree of suffering than happiness that should justify the eradication of all life? That's a more sensible position but I think you would have a hard time finding the statistics to back that up. Like the other guy you're also ignoring the flip side of the argument. If it is the case that we risk bringing unhappy people into the world so we can have happy people there's nothing you can say to stop me making the point that miserable people might be selfish because they won't sacrifice for the happy people. There's no objective basis for your philosophy. It's all just what you choose to value.There are entire cultures of people that inflict pain on their bodies and go through very tough initiations ceremonies because they believe pain and suffering is a necessary part of life so clearly this aversion to pain and suffering is not a universally accepted belief.
@@Zex-4729 it’s not analogous to exploiting the poor at all. It’s analogous to accepting there will be rich people and there will be poor people. Happy people or neutral people are not necessarily responsible for the suffering of others. One way comparing peoples economic status to their mental states is analogous is that they can change.
@@mikeylitchfield4651 As an antinatalist, I am simply advocating for the mitigation of pain & suffering in the world. I think we can both agree that no one has the moral right to inflict serious, preventable harms upon others without their consent. Existence is imposed without consent. Because a child cannot consent to being born, parents are *never* acting in the best interest of the child whenever they decide to have one. There are *no* altruistic reasons to have a child; absolutely none. If you're trying to argue from the angle of that which does not kill us makes us stronger, my rebuttal is that the unconceived will never suffer. Yes, certain cultures engage in self-harm rituals and genital mutilation of their children. There is no good in this, and it doesn't prove anything. It's simply the mark of a backwards culture.
Even though I could not come up with ONE logical and or ethical and or moral reason to force innocent beings into this hell hole without their consent/permission and I also understand that the ONLY things I can guarantee for my future kids is unimaginable suffering and death, I AM STILL ready to FORCE innocent beings into this hell hole without their consent/permission because I am: irresponsible, selfish, poor, lonely, shallow, stupid, bored and megalomaniac with hero complex and virtue signalling syndrome. I am going to be absolutely so happy and proud and joyful when my kids will become future: pharmaceutical/medical industrial complex’ life long clients/victims, prison/military industrial complex clients/victims, fascists, satanists, totalitarian single digit IQ nobodies, communists, marxists, bolsheviks, leninists, SJWs, BLMs, socialists, mercenaries, religious freaks wearing funny clothing and head coverings spreading ‘peace’, prostitutes/escorts/sugar babies, sugar daddies/sugar mamas, female rapists, pimps, welfare/benefit queens/kings, cartel members, starving people, broke(n)/bankrupt people from all points of views, hitmen/hitwomen/assassins, murderers, witches/warlocks who curse others, murderers wearing uniforms-badges/white coats-stethoscopes/suits-ties, abused people, abusers/users, drunkards, drug addicts, drug dealers, alcoholics, homeless, gang/mafia members, suicide victims, bullies, bullied people, torturers, tortured people, mentally and physically handicapped people, orphans, victims of organ harvesting and human trafficking, single mother victims, dead soldiers, racist group gang members, prostitutes, residents of hell, debt slaves, suckers to participate in the rat race that enables the world wide criminal syndicate(royalty, bankers etc.) to stay rich and become richer...
From what I noticed, like 95% people are actually all right with existence, in fact, outright grateful. however, the reason Antinatilst veiws have some resonance with me is because i think "what of the 5% of people like me?". my mindset is that its not worth the risk of making a human that resents existing compared to one that won't. I remembered discussing with my mother why i wish i wasn't born, i was an accidental pregnancy which is fine but when she said " you where so unlikely to exist you are astronomically lucky" all i could say was "well i think astronomically unlucky because instead of someone who would appreciate life i was born instead"
The very fact we are born with pain receptors should be reason enough to not introduce new life forms into this world, the levels and types of pain that are available to the human body are inhumane and some opt out when it's so severe and unending. I can't gamble on bringing a new life into this world and risk them being born with some genetic defect, or illness or some fluke and much like for all of us, every day is a roll of the dice whether something bad will happen to us i.e. sickness, disease, accidents, losing loved ones, mental health. It's just far too risky and not worth it bringing in new life and I am all for ceasing to reproduce as it would end all problems in this world, no more humans to suffer, no more struggles, just "nothingness" until this cold, indifferent universe experiences heat death and nothing remains
I think antinatalists are hard to come by because you need to have a certain personality, a particular brand of introspection and inner strength, to see life for what it truly is, and accept it. Most people will refuse to try to understand, and outright reject the philosophy out of fear.
Its also easier for people to breed and have as much children as they want since we are somewhat coded to do that biologically I think like most species, otherwise, we would be extinct a long time ago, I also think that anyone natalist or not think they're contributing to something, which is probably why we have such a high population today, even if you give a reasonable argument as for why they shouldn't, they will disagree or outright refuse to discuss it, because they don't want to accept what they're doing is wrong and selfish.
@@valerietaylor9615 That too, which is why natalists like to call us depressed edgy teenagers, while there are some people that are genuinely depressed, surely it cannot be all ANs? I only know one person who isn't which is Lawrence Anton, an AN youtuber I reccomend if you haven't already seen their channel.
There's a contradiction in blaming fear for the lack of success of antinatalism. Antinatalism is the purest expression of fear of pain. There is no strength in giving up
Most folks who deny the idea of antinatilism have either already have children and it makes them feel bad/us vs. them mentality or have experienced a very lucky life in not having suffered very much or downplay the reality of how harsh life is/ignorant to it
To the fortunate few with the lucky genes, parents and environment to live in kudos, more power to you. But to the myriad of children born beneath an angry star destined to live unfulfilling lives my heart goes out pointlessly.
@@jale9619 The chances of having a disabled child is too low to really consider a worthwhile risk, not to mention in the current state of the world our healthcare is good enough to treat 90% of these disabilities and can even cure or completely alleviate some (except in America, you gotta pay)
for me, I was born lucky and developed normally but I did inherit some anxiety and depression from my dad and often times my own mind attacks my body with somatic issues when stress is so high, the mind can be a whole other beast to handle, you cannot see mental scars as you can physical ones but one's own mind can put them in a very dark place and terrified of everything. Too many horrible, awful things are available to the human mind and body to ever risk bringing in new life
I am from Singapore and i wholeheartedly support antinatalism. It is crazy in this day and age having kids. I feel it is a stupid and selfish thing to do.
@@Fan-zx1lz You do realize that giving birth allowed Homo Sapiens to evolve to what’s now? We’ve become the most intelligent species on Earth, and it’s sad that not all people use their brains properly.
Good video. My choice has been to not have children and I have always thought it the kindest thing to do. My parents both apologised to me before they died for bringing me into the world. When people ask me if I have children I tell them I would never have them unless I could ask them if they wanted to be born first.
Sounds like you had kind parents. Though I never experienced such love, I did tell my son, and I also do everything possible to help him achieve his dreams and provide for him. I am 64; he is 43, today.
Yes. I don't think parents with bad genes bad circumstances should give birth. I myself who suffers from some degrees of discrimination and conflicts with others don't feel bad if I was never born at all.
When a woman gives birth creates a problem for the newborn, a problem this new person have to start to solve, going to scholl, have good grades, go to college, graduates, start srnding resumes, land a job, work 9 to 5, change jobs if. If we dont like it, find a partner, have a kid withball the responsability it entails, try not to lose your health, stay away from toxic friends. Help family, pay bills, retire when you are 65 ifvyou are lucky and keep worrying about your health and finance of ourvown and loved ones, then age and brace oneself for old age and death, all of this many people (ignorant ones) say is a "gift"
@@cal9112that's true but we're all just walking talking toiling urinating eating defecating farting Suffering Sperm.. Males are selling their Sperm to Sperm Banks for IVF... females need Sperm to give birth.
So how to live life: Do everything possible to minimize the amount of pain and suffer for yourself and help minimize problems for people you know, and maybe help others, but only if they accept to prevent more suffering in the feature
There are so few natalists for the same reason there are so few nihilists, because sometimes accepting reality - as it is, rather than as we wish it to be - seemingly demands a violent and instinctual rejection based on our evolutionary and biological predicaments. It takes a tremendous amount of discipline, integrity, and intellectual honesty to grapple with this idea without letting ones natural biased inclinations cloud your reasoning
Do you believe that reality can be understood in it's totality by purely our interpretation of the physical world through our human bodies? It is not a trick question, I am very curious about anti-natalism and the manner in which it disregards any possible meaning to life.
But that is all subjective, your worldview may be that pain outweighs pleasure, but can you prove that? Is there a provable point to make here? My guy, the only idea you should grasp is the concept of subjectivity.
I don't have any kids, probably never will. But, I live sustainably I try "sometimes"to leave a place better than what I found it, even though I don't have too and I try to enjoy life while I'm here, that's my legacy, my gift to the earth for giving me life.
I’m think I am antinatalist, never even knew there was a word for it until about a year ago. People ask me as a female why I don’t want children. And I say simply because to live is to suffer. And people are flabbergasted when I say that but.. I’m not here to convince. People who get it, get it.
I love children but I don't think I could bring any into the world. I have a good life, and despite that I often feel crushed by grief, guilt, and stress. I unfortunately don't have high hopes that houses will become more affordable, that the climate crisis will be solved, that losing loved ones will ever get easier. If I did have kids, I of course would do everything i could to try to make their lives as wonderful as possible, but I can't guarantee they'll find a life partner to mutually love and support, I can't guarantee they'll find a job they like (I unfortunately suspect the average person doesn't like their job), I can't even guarantee that I will be there to love them throughout most of their lives as I could die unexpectedly. I unfortunately can only guarantee that there will be pain. And I already struggle with the guilt of not being completely environmentally friendly (I need to use lots of plastic as a laboratory scientist), worrying about whether my family and pets know how much I love them, etc. I couldn't deal with the guilt of giving a child life if they ended up feeling it was a burden instead of a gift. For myself, I'm already here so I'm going to wring out all the goodness I can out of my life. For all the bad parts, there are lots of good parts and I'll have the relief of not existing for the rest of eternity, so I might as well push through the 100 or so years and get all the good experiences I can. But I don't think I can make that decision for someone else. I hope one day if I have the health (my chronic illness can make it difficult to do things i want to do) and space necessary, I can offer my home to foster kids so I can make the lives of children who already exist a little better. For now, I'm trying to do that with my rescue cats.
I think if we had a future like Star Trek: TNG, where every person was guaranteed quality homes, food, etc and jobs were based on one's passions rather than simply making ends meet, then I would probably consider having children. But the idea that I'd have to send them to school and try to not stress them out about grades too much but still needing to encourage good grades so they could get decent jobs and have decent lives without the stress of living paycheck to paycheck (unfortunately even lots of "decent" jobs don't pay enough for a decent standard of living) makes me feel so sad. It often felt like life was just preparing for the next stage so you could survive: school so you can get a job, a job so you can retire. I'm so lucky that I got a decent job I like and managed to buy a home (I did work hard, but lots of my success is through pure luck) and I often worry that the period of ill health I've been experiencing lately will mean I will lose all that I worked for because I don't know if I can continue to keep up if my body keeps failing me. If life could be about living and not about surviving, then I could see bringing a child into the world. While I'm alive, I will continue to push for the changes that I believe will make life more fulfilling for future generations so maybe one day, there will be a future that I would have have happy to bring a child into.
Having children has always been a selfish and thoughtless thing to do because the world has always been an uncertain mess. The type of people who have kids aren't good at questioning the system, are still young, or are selfish and that's why there are so many bad parents. And the result is that humanity has always been dysfunctional. I do care about the distant future because I don't believe antinatalism will ever become the norm.
I hate my mother because she brought life into me, and even if she was a good mother I still would hate her. I never asked to be made. The idea of my own mortality scares me. Growing old scares me. If I was never born being scared would never be a issue. I would not feel happy ether but happens with not worth feeling pain over.
