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Why aren’t evangelicals breaking down Lutheran doors if we have such a good deal? 

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EPISODE #38: Ted asks why the consistently delivered word and sacrament, Jesus Christ died-and-risen for your sins, doesn’t have outsiders storming Lutheran doors to receive it. Rod talks about the Lutheran church, some of the LCMS history, the nature of German Lutherans and communication skills, and the history of Lutherans’ tendency to be insular.
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24 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 34   
@stephenlownes1640
@stephenlownes1640 3 года назад
I came into the Lutheran church after 40 yrs in Evangelicalism. The first time I got introduced to Rod was at Westmont College, an evangelical college. What he said in his doctrine class at Westmont was very comforting and didn't make much sense to me, given the dark evangelical lense I saw through at the time. Later, while at Fuller Seminary, I took another Lutheran class from Rod, and again it was comforting but it made a little more sense to me. Much later, while my wife and I were looking for a church, a friend introduced us to a Lutheran church. I have been a member since and began learning about Lutheranism. If everyone actually looked at Lutheranism and found a good solid pastor, I am absolutely convinced they would become Lutheran even believe what the scriptures teach about baptism and communion. On Baptism: Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and [an]Christ-this Jesus whom you crucified.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were [ao]pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “[ap]Brothers, what are we to do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far away, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” 40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on urging them, saying, “[aq]Be saved from this perverse generation!” 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand [ar]souls. 42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to [as]prayer. 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also [m]suffered for sins once for all time, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the [n]spirit; 19 in [o]which He also went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, 20 who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God [p]for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him. On Communion: This is my body Matthew 26:26 Now while they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and [k]after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” 27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. Mark 14:22 While they were eating, He took some bread, and [k]after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is My body.” 23 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. 24 And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for many. Luke 22:19 And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body, which is being given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood. 1 Corinthians 11:23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night when He was betrayed, took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy way, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But a person must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For the one who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not properly recognize the [p]body. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number [q]are asleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. So, converting to Lutheranism and believing the sacraments was pretty easy for me given the above scriptures.
@francesbrisco776
@francesbrisco776 3 года назад
ONE OF THE BEST COMMENTS
@mulkster39
@mulkster39 Год назад
Thank you Stephen! I didn't go your route of classes but fortunately had an older brother turn me to the whitehorse inn where I listened to Rod discuss Romans. The comfort I felt and experienced from his Lutheran perspective provided me with an understanding that Christ did it all. So simple that I just cling to that cross and call a Lutheran church now my home. I wished more would come for the means of grace provided but we leave that up to God and pray more find the comfort Christ provides in our Lutheran churches!
@williamgammeter5113
@williamgammeter5113 2 года назад
I agree with Todd Wilkens predecessor...the LCMS needs to keep the light on for former evangelicals broken by the church. As an ex-evanjelly big box church goer...I was so pleasantly surprised by Book of Concord, systematic theology, the two Martins...and the wholistic approach to God's Word my LCMS pastor friend showed me. Lutherans use Radio and You Tube for door to door evangelism
@1920s
@1920s 3 года назад
Well. I was confirmed about three weeks ago. :)
@janicecisco725
@janicecisco725 3 года назад
I like listening to the podcast, because you can always listen to it again if you had a hard time understanding just what the speakers had to say.
@amymantravadi5057
@amymantravadi5057 6 месяцев назад
Historically, Lutherans have been hampered by the language difference in the United States. While few Lutherans are anything but English speaking now, the effects are still being felt. When Lutherans first came to the US, their communities were naturally more insular. And the Puritans had a big head start here on the Lutherans.
@MrGTO86
@MrGTO86 3 года назад
I was an evangelical, now a Presbyterian. The reason I am not a Lutheran is because I am convinced of the Westminster Standards and the Reformed tradition as far as baptism and the Lord's supper is concerned. For the average evangelical they are too deep in the after effects of American pietism and revivalism to think beyond that. They don't take the sacraments seriously and they are confused about law and gospel.
@lc-mschristian5717
@lc-mschristian5717 3 года назад
Awesome, thought provoking stuff. Thank you and God's peace be with you.
@victormashatt2521
@victormashatt2521 3 года назад
Though many are drifting to the reformed churches out of independent non liturgical and confessional churches I think the hold back on Lutheranism is the sacraments. It’s a big enough leap into the reformed.
@markturner4353
@markturner4353 3 года назад
I'm an Evangelical and have been following Dr. Rosenbladt via this channel as well as White Horse Inn. To answer the question posed and from my personal perspective, it's the Lutheran position on the sacraments. I just can't get there. I haven't heard an articulate Scriptural argument from Lutherans on this topic. It seems it always starts and ends with extra-Biblical sources. With all of the above said, I still listen to Dad Rod and am planning on buying a book he wrote a few years ago.
@ElwinRansom1
@ElwinRansom1 3 года назад
Amen, brother. I have that same history and same hesitation when it comes to going 'all-in'. If and when I ever convert it will be with a clean conscience, and a firm conviction that the explanation of the sacraments are true. To convert with my fingers crossed would be dishonest to myself, and to the Lutheran Church. But I also have received great blessings and assurance from Rod, and thank God for him.
@markturner4353
@markturner4353 3 года назад
@@ElwinRansom1 Yes and well said. Thanks for sharing.
@jordantsak7683
@jordantsak7683 3 года назад
False teaching are very solid in you because of bad christian education. Jesus is where the word and sacraments righty are delivered and taught. You don't have than to study the Book of Concord, if you really want to understand. Otherwise you can continue saying all your life ''I didn't find yet a lutheran to persuade me''. Jesus is our God incarnated and the Sacraments are Him incarnated, for you, freely, by grace, through the gift of faith (trust not in me but to Him and His deeds). The Sacraments are the salvation coming to you from outside, beyond your inability to save yourself (because you are totally derived and you don't possess ''free will for saving yourself''). If you don't have the Sacraments, then the only thing you have is yourself, your faith and your deeds. This is not Jesus, but you in the place of Jesus. Read the Book of Concord and you don't need any lutheran to explain something to you. His Grace be with you, always, brother.
@sarco64
@sarco64 3 года назад
I think that part of the problem stems from the Lutheran understanding that the Gospel is something that is totally outside of us, something that is for us to receive without contributing anything on our part. That just goes against the American can-do spirit. It starts with "getting saved." We Americans have to do our part to seal the deal, either by inviting Jesus into our heart, making a decision for Christ, etc. Then comes baptism. It can't just be something that is passively done to us by God. It has to be our act of obedience, to tell God and the world that we're really serious about being dedicated Christians. Communion can't be merely a gift that we receive from God with nothing to offer but our empty hands. It has to be an act that we perform, to demonstrate that we are obeying the command to "Do this in remembrance of me."
@st.jameslutheranchurchclev4500
@st.jameslutheranchurchclev4500 3 года назад
Here is a brief sermon on the Lord's Supper. I hope that it will be of help. drive.google.com/file/d/1hVBZPijl1BFSEOXZrVMCdhRR_AwHyryI/view?usp=sharing
@laurenatownsend5789
@laurenatownsend5789 3 года назад
I grew up in a liturgical Lutheran Church, attended CCI, and enjoyed Dr. Rosenblatt's apologetics class. 😁 I left the Lutheran church after studying the sacraments of baptism and communion, and realizing that I didn't agree with the Lutheran stance that these are sacraments that supply "means of grace." I go to a conservative Bible church now, which Is more Baptist, but stylistically is much less "high church." I was blessed to be exposed to different styles of worship in different Lutheran churches before I made the shift, so it wasn't too much of a shock to leave the liturgical world! 😁 Almost everybody I grew up with in the church has left the Lutheran church, not because of a theology issue, but mostly because they just don't know the Lord. They think because they got baptized when they were babies, that means they're Christians. However, they have no interest in God's Word or God's people, and live pretty reprobate lives. It breaks my heart. Why aren't people storming into Lutheran churches? Honestly, they aren't storming into any church. I've noticed that my parents (die-hard Lutherans) still think that bringing someone to church is what they need to do. They don't think it's appropriate to talk about personal issues like sin and salvation. The evangelicals confront sin, share the gospel, and then bring people into the church with them. I love my Lutheran heritage, and it breaks my heart to see so many churches here in our area completely shutting down.
@bobtaylor170
@bobtaylor170 3 года назад
Laurena, I'm sorry to say that while I think Lutherans are much closer to right than not in their view of the Sacraments ( which I do believe in ), I think you've nailed it perfectly. You could be describing the miserable LCA church I had my boyhood in during the 1960s. It was arid, to be polite. Preaching of the Gospel? Not that I recall. Teaching the Bible? Oh, please! And I doubt any of the kids I was in Sunday School with continued in Lutheranism as serious Christians once they got into adulthood. Why should a young person who was a genuine Christian have continued in such a church? I think the most blessed thing that ever happened to me in my Christian life - and I am convinced that I believed when I was a toddler - was being so bored by the tedium and irrelevance of that hour of Churchianity every Sunday by the time I was 16 that I dropped out entirely. The Holy Spirit was gracious to bring the Gospel back to me through a most unlikely source when I was 23, a Charismatic woman who actually preached it. I knew I was hearing the truth, and my adult Christian life commenced then. Thank the gracious Lord that he depressed me out of that moribund Lutheran church when I was a kid! If Lutheranism is as wonderful as I know some Lutherans are, why are such Lutherans not just the exception, but the remarkable exception? I credit 90% of my spiritual growth to nondenominational "Bible" churches. Interestingly, as I move into old age, I find that there is the sort of vibrant Lutheranism we've longed to be a part of ( I have, anyway ), but that it's much likelier to be in an Anglican Church in North America congregation than in a Lutheran one. And while it is wonderful that what I think of as the most Biblical Protestantism survives, it is beyond sad that so little of it survives in Lutheranism.
@jordantsak7683
@jordantsak7683 2 года назад
Judge ideas with ideas and deeds with deeds. Yes, the truth rests in the lutheran theology, although lutherans are indeed sinners.
@ArtVandelay-ImporterExporter
@ArtVandelay-ImporterExporter 3 года назад
Cause the worship and sacraments look too Roman Catholic to some people even though the theology behind them is not.
@sarco64
@sarco64 3 года назад
The irony is that when it comes to the doctrine of justification, the doctrine on which the church stands or falls according to Luther, American Evangelicals are actually more Roman Catholic than Lutherans are. Many, if not most, American Evangelicals would agree with Roman Catholics that justification is synergistic -- God does His part and we do our part. They have moved away from the original Protestant understanding that our justification is purely monergistic. We contribute nothing.
@ArtVandelay-ImporterExporter
@ArtVandelay-ImporterExporter 3 года назад
@@sarco64 Exactly right. The Apostles record in the NT declares no conflict with a robust sacramental theology and sola fide.
@jordantsak7683
@jordantsak7683 3 года назад
The ''gates aren't stormed'' because of the falling nature of men, which is offended when hears the gospel.
@sarco64
@sarco64 3 года назад
I think you have a good point. Our fallen nature is opposed to the understanding of the Gospel as the good news that we are saved by something that is entirely outside of us, that since we are dead in our trespasses and sins, we can do nothing to contribute to reconciliation between us and God. Instead, we want to be able to feel proud about our contributions. We are attracted to a form of Christianity that allows us to say, "Look at me! I turned my life around and made the decision to make Jesus my Lord and Savior. I was willing to step up and do my part."
@drummerhq2263
@drummerhq2263 Год назад
Because you still have error in baptism and communion
@user-nj1rc9hk4h
@user-nj1rc9hk4h 3 месяца назад
Be careful. You are in grave heresy. Denying the sacraments as means of grace is desnying Christ in flesh. American christianity is heretical. Be careful and come to the truth. Be a confessional lutheran.
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