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Why Biological Race Isn't Real 

Zach B. Hancock
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In this video, I debunk the myth of "race realism" - the white supremacist idea that culturally-defined races are actual biological entities that can be used to separate people into discrete clusters. This was the notion of race that was held by the Buffalo shooter in 2022 that murdered 10 black people at a Tops supermarket. Despite biologists recognizing that race is a social and cultural construct for over 40 years, much of the general public still thinks that there exists real biological differences between races. I explain why these differences simply don't exist.
Excellent articles for further reading:
Carlson et al. (2022) Counter the weaponization of genetics research by extremists. Nature: www.nature.com/articles/d4158....
Lewis et al. (2022) Getting genetic ancestry right for science and society. Science, www.science.org/doi/full/10.1....

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15 фев 2023

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Комментарии : 1,3 тыс.   
@shahreyar99
@shahreyar99 4 месяца назад
Someone answers this: how can any human be mixed race when race doesn't exist? Society proliferates nonsense; people can have parents with diverse phenotypes or cultural backgrounds. But not diverse racial history. Because race doesn't exist as a biological category!!! So when people say mixed race, they are often more healthy because they are hybrids. That's also a lie; distantly related people of any sort, whether they look similar or not, will, in fact, have a healthier genetic pool. You can have two cousins that look vastly different to human eyes "racially", but that doesn't mean if they have kids, they won't code for recessive genetic traits. So yeah.. someone please dismantle the idea of race and the divisions it creates already. im bored and tired. especially in the US
@ghevisartor6005
@ghevisartor6005 5 месяцев назад
is the same framework used to classify animals races and species used for humans? if so does this yield the result that there are is one human race?
@DominusNobody
@DominusNobody 5 месяцев назад
Traditionally, there are species, subdivided into subspecies (also known as 'races'), but these are essentially just labels. In animals, such as dog breeds, often referred to as subspecies, we observe distinct genetic clusters with minimal variation within breeds. Conversely, in humans, genetic variation gradually changes across populations rather than forming discrete groups. The overall genetic variation within the human species is relatively low compared to many other species. Furthermore, the variance within human populations is high compared to the variation between populations. The pattern of variation in humans is such that attempting to group populations would be arbitrary and meaningless. There are no specific biological criteria for inclusion or exclusion for defining population groups categorically. In short, there is only one human 'race', or essentially as many as there are individuals.
@poody771
@poody771 5 месяцев назад
​@@DominusNobodyGood comment.
@eliasc2864
@eliasc2864 4 месяца назад
No, it's not. By most metrics, we can be classified into subspecies, such as Fst distance.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 4 месяца назад
@@eliasc2864 "DNA studies do not indicate that separate classifiable subspecies (races) exist within modern humans. While different genes for physical traits such as skin and hair color can be identified between individuals, no consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another. There also is no genetic basis for divisions of human ethnicity." -Human Genome Project Stop rampaging around this video spreading falsehoods.
@eliasc2864
@eliasc2864 4 месяца назад
@@NanakiRowan there are animals with lowers fst distances than human races so thats pure nonsense. Taxonomy is subjective but to assert we could not be grouped into races is absurd.
@andrewmagdy977
@andrewmagdy977 Год назад
Dr Zach, Some people said that there are differences in physical structure in the skulls of Europeans and africans and asians and that is why they were categorized on different races as they don't have the same physical structure of the skull, how to respond to this argument
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen Год назад
Sure, we need to understand something about natural variation. If we pick one European (say, someone from Norway), one African (a San), and an Asian (a Mongolian), and compare their skulls we would absolutely find differences. And racists have used very specific examples like this to draw broad conclusions across people groups. But those are just three specific cases. What we should really do is take a large sample across all Europeans, Africans, and Asians. When you do that, you find that the variation in skull morphology across groups completely overlaps, indicating there is no consistent diagnostic differences between 'European', 'African', and 'Asian', writ large. There are Europeans that have the same skull morphology as a San, and others with the morphology of a Mongol. This is because all humans are very closely related, and the overwhelming majority of variation is shared not within, but across groups. Hope this helps.
@andrewmagdy977
@andrewmagdy977 Год назад
@@talkpopgen Thanks Dr Zach
@blackhawk_Enochserpent
@blackhawk_Enochserpent 8 месяцев назад
should? So, you believe that we didn't do that already?@@talkpopgen
@blackhawk_Enochserpent
@blackhawk_Enochserpent 8 месяцев назад
@@talkpopgen but there is difference in skull shape, not primitive but very important aspect of diversity
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@talkpopgen You just stated that Africa has the most variation though. Which one is it guy?
@andrewmagdy977
@andrewmagdy977 Год назад
Dr Zach, Why many people associate wide(flat) nose with africans(as an African feautures) while east africans(Ethiopian, Somalis, Eritreans) have very narrow nose with very high nasal bridge??! and Did the Ethiopians get their narrow noses from Europeans or Europeans get their noses from Ethiopians ?
@argeus3639
@argeus3639 11 месяцев назад
Europeans would've gotten their noses from Africans. Remember it's believed that all people originated from Africa, which is the most genetically diverse continent.
@andrewmagdy977
@andrewmagdy977 11 месяцев назад
@@argeus3639 so why some anthropologists associated this kind of nose shape (narrow nose) with caucasians(Europeans) not with (Africans) ??!
@MossyMozart
@MossyMozart 9 месяцев назад
@@andrewmagdy977 - Bias.
@Chess_Enthusiast
@Chess_Enthusiast 7 месяцев назад
Afro-Asiatic and Semitic migrations since thousands of years ago.
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@MossyMozart *Observation*
@fat025
@fat025 5 месяцев назад
So you took one of the most genetically diverse places in the world (New York) and compared it to the genetic differences between the continents to say humans are the same race??
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 5 месяцев назад
Lol New York? It looks like you didn't actually watch the video, friend.
@ordennuevo469
@ordennuevo469 4 месяца назад
New York most genetically diverse? Oh boy where did you got that shit idea?
@eliasc2864
@eliasc2864 4 месяца назад
​@@ordennuevo469 new york city is the most diverse place on the planet. Idk what point you think you're making
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 4 месяца назад
@@eliasc2864 Actually Africa is the most genetically diverse place on the planet.
@eliasc2864
@eliasc2864 4 месяца назад
@@NanakiRowan africa is a continent, we are obviously talking about a city. Don't be pedantic.
@AceofDlamonds
@AceofDlamonds 3 месяца назад
Yes Africa is a huge continent, with huge genetic diversity. But I find this talking point in particular disingenuous. North Africans cluster with Europeans (West Eurasians) as you later mention. The Horn of Africa is a heavily mixed region. Khoisan people are some of the oldest living populations. And pygmy people still exist in Central Africa. How much of the genetic diversity is contributed to by these distinct groups?? The some "Europeans" are more similar to "Asians" some "Africans" are more similar to "Europeans" sounds like lazy wordgames because parts of what we call "Africa" and "Asia" have populations that are far closer connected to "Europe proper" than other populations or races.
@adaptivelearner6162
@adaptivelearner6162 3 месяца назад
The horn of Africa has less genetic diversity than west African population and, no they are not Arabs. Source: "Early Back-to-Africa Migration into the Horn of Africa Jason A. Hodgson,Connie J. Mulligan,Ali Al-Meeri,Ryan L. Raaum Published: June 12, 2014". There is more genetic diversity among west & east Africans than any other group of African people.
@AceofDlamonds
@AceofDlamonds 3 месяца назад
@@adaptivelearner6162 Genetics is tricky business and can be seen in multiple POV. If you live in one area long enough, you'll technically get more genetic diversity. Humans have lived in Africa and indeed subsaharan Africa longer than anywhere else in the world, so perhaps great genetic diversity isn't a surpise. No doubt there is contribution from non-Bantu racial groups as well.
@adaptivelearner6162
@adaptivelearner6162 3 месяца назад
@@AceofDlamonds What do you mean? Of course i'm there are people with non-African admixture in Africa. However, it is always assumed (illogically) that there are more in the horn-African populations. It is also, assumed that most Bantu's have the same facial features as well which couldn't be further from the truth.
@AceofDlamonds
@AceofDlamonds 3 месяца назад
@@adaptivelearner6162 The Horn is almost 60-40 Congoid and Caucasoid in some places (on average ofc). Bantus and other subsaharan Africans share a cluster of average features. Some regional variants may have a less pronounced feature here or there. That's why we talk about clusters and averages.
@adaptivelearner6162
@adaptivelearner6162 3 месяца назад
@@AceofDlamonds To further understand what you are trying to get at here can I ask you what part of Africa are saying Bantu's are most concentrated in.
@Jimmoieie
@Jimmoieie 6 месяцев назад
I have a question for you?
@Jimmoieie
@Jimmoieie 6 месяцев назад
I don’t believe that race exists as it has no genetic basis, Homo sapiens don’t have sub species that are separated by skin color, and humans are 99.9 percent identical at the dna level. But can a person find out of much of their phenotype/skin color they are by somehow getting their genotype tested ( as that’s what determines skin color)? Apparently dna results don’t tell you how much of your predominate genotype you have. Dna results only tell you of how much of a chance you have of being an ethnicity , which doesn’t necessarily determine skin color as a person who could have ancestors who live in Africa but aren’t black.
@Jimmoieie
@Jimmoieie 6 месяцев назад
Also, apparently how much of a chance you having of being a certain ethnicity can differ from dna companies, proving their unreliability.
@poody771
@poody771 5 месяцев назад
​@@JimmoieieDNA tests can only inconsistently estimate your geographical ancestry.
@poody771
@poody771 4 месяца назад
@@cosmossci4883 Nope. It is always inconsistent.
@Jimmoieie
@Jimmoieie 2 месяца назад
How can you know if someone only has ancestors with brown skin?
@Homo_sAPEien
@Homo_sAPEien 5 месяцев назад
1:45 Race is not necessarily related to ancestry? So are you saying I could identify as black if I wanted to??
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 5 месяцев назад
You could. Look at Rachel Dolezal.
@poody771
@poody771 5 месяцев назад
Yes.
@Homo_sAPEien
@Homo_sAPEien 5 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan But isn’t that offensive though?
@Homo_sAPEien
@Homo_sAPEien 5 месяцев назад
@@poody771 Are you sure. Isn’t that offensive?
@poody771
@poody771 5 месяцев назад
@@Homo_sAPEien Yes, and it is arbitrarym
@thefingthinkingemoji8053
@thefingthinkingemoji8053 9 месяцев назад
13:10 This entire argument supports racial divisions in human. According to you, geographical environment led to a genetic difference that is not superficial and which can be observed with the naked eye, that is textbook speciation. Were humans animals or not treated with kiddy gloves this would be used to argue for species/subspecies divisions.
@MossyMozart
@MossyMozart 9 месяцев назад
@thefingthinkingemoji8053 - I think you mean "kid gloves". Also, "race" is a specious concept devised to make some groups feel superior to others.
@blackhawk_Enochserpent
@blackhawk_Enochserpent 8 месяцев назад
@@MossyMozart no it is used as synonym to species.
@guilhermea2346
@guilhermea2346 7 месяцев назад
​@@blackhawk_EnochserpentThe closest would be subspecies, not species. And yet, the closest.
@blackhawk_Enochserpent
@blackhawk_Enochserpent 7 месяцев назад
no its not. the closest wouldn't be subspecies. thats just something you said. you can drink poop water. it doesnt mean poop water is good, because you say that.@@guilhermea2346
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@MossyMozart Regardless of the term used, there is a noticeable difference based on a 'tiny fraction' of DNA differentiation. I'll say that word one more time, DIFFERENTIATION. Any scientist worth their salt does not ignore the data. A 'tiny fraction' is still data that must be taken into account. Why even bother mentioning that 'tiny fraction' if there are no differences? Sounds like BS and piss poor research techniques. Data is data all day, every day.
@emk7132
@emk7132 4 месяца назад
Followed link from Gutsick Gibbon to see your analysis. Glad I did; thanks!
@joejohnoptimus
@joejohnoptimus 11 месяцев назад
Good video, but I have some objections: @3:12 "Race is not a concept used in Biology anymore". - Obviously true when referring to the antiquated, cartoonish concepts of legacy human races. However, plenty of examples of scientists in modern times utilizing nuanced contexts of subspecies. At the very least, there have been recent pushes advocating for its place in the overall taxonomy (which I don't necessarily agree with). As for the 2nd definition presented ... @ 3:42 "Under this definition, pi between must always be greater than pi within" - I'm not familiar with this definitional criteria. The one I'm familiar with using pairwise fst AMOVA seems to just stipulate that two populations with sharp genetic boundaries are considered to be different races simply if 25% or more (arbitrary threshold) of the genetic variability that they collectively share is found as between population differences (NCBI). Overall, I think a much better (and needed) approach to this video would start by addressing the underlying question: "Is biological subspecies even possible, for any organism?" Do you acknowledge that its even possible? I'm assuming so based off the definitions you provided (or else you wouldn't have used them). Some experts argue that subspecies is not even logically possible as an ontological entity. But then again, they also admit that some of the other Taxonomy levels (family, order, genus,, etc ..) are not distinct ontological entities either, yet the scientific community still uses them as a matter of practicality and usefulness. This is probably the biggest flaw with the whole "social construct" argument typically thrown around.
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen 11 месяцев назад
We don't use the word *race* anymore when talking about subspecies. Of course the concept of subspecies exists, that's how I set-up my attempt to evaluate whether biological races are real (treating them as akin to "subspecies"). I used a series of definitions from the literature. The pi-within vs pi-between is measuring the same thing as Fst (Fst = 1 - [pi_within - pi_between / pi_between]), which is the amount of drift shared within a population versus how much is shared between populations. As I showed, most of the differences exist between individuals, not populations. Using the definition you gave (25% threshold), humans would not be considered subspecies. Lastly, race is very much a social construct, as I showed in the video, because none of our intuitions about "race" reflect discrete genetic ancestry or any other definition of subspecies that would be acceptable taxonomically.
@joejohnoptimus
@joejohnoptimus 11 месяцев назад
@@talkpopgen Why are my replies not being saved here?
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen 11 месяцев назад
@@joejohnoptimus YT has a weirdly restrictive comment banning system. If you include links or certain words it shadow bans them. I haven't seen any of your replies.
@joejohnoptimus
@joejohnoptimus 11 месяцев назад
@@talkpopgen Ahh, ok. Very weird indeed because my reply seems so ... benign and doesn't contain any links. I'll modify, update, and try again. If it won't stick, then no worries.
@joejohnoptimus
@joejohnoptimus 11 месяцев назад
​ @talkpopgen Essentially A) the 25% threshold is explicitly arbitrary and B) to add context; ALL of the other taxonomic ranks (except species - debatable) are social constructs as well. Even if a grouping does indeed reflect a discrete genetic ancestry and points to facts in nature, that doesn't necessarily mean that its not a social construct.
@bhangrafan4480
@bhangrafan4480 6 месяцев назад
Firstly I am NOT a racist. On the contrary I strongly oppose racism in all its forms. That is I oppose the idea that one so-called race is inherently superior to any other. However in recent decades, geneticists, (and I was a geneticist in a former career, I am now retired), are so terrified of the public view that genetics as a discipline is at root racist, that they go too far in trying to deny the realities of genetic diversity, and in particular the clustering of humans genetically, which is a self-evident reality which people can see with their own eyes. By doing this they actually discredit themselves and those people who they should be trying to persuade are instantly caused to reject as dishonest such scientists' contributions. This attitude of misrepresenting science for political reasons, or fearing the backlash from the public who will misconstrue the existence of so-called 'race' with racism is basically lying to the public for political reasons. It is two different things to say humans have genetic diversity and that degrees of clustering exist, and to say that some of these clusters are inherently superior to others. Some key points: 1) To start with the premise that sociologically constructed 'race' has no biological basis is what we call an 'Aunt Sally', an obviously unsound idea deliberately set up so it can be demolished. No one knows what a sociologically constructed race is, as it has no definition. If a white person living in London sees black people they might simply define by a very few differences. In other words anyone 'black' belongs to the alleged 'black race', but in that category could be first generation Nigerians, third generation Caribbean immigrants with mixed European/African/Asian inheritance, southern Africans, Somalis etc. etc. So obviously there is massive genetic diversity. This approach is only a comment on how a white person in London constructs their definition of race, not on the existence of clusters of genetic similarity in populations across the world. 2) Another Aunt Sally - race is NOT species. No one ever said there is an iron barrier of reproductive isolation between races. Even the most rabid racist is aware people from different 'races' can interbreed, and is much troubled by this. So, no one expects a complete genetic distinction between 'races', just clustering within a spectrum of genetic variation. 3) The real issue is a biologically well defined one, much studied in population genetics - it is called RELATEDNESS. A large part of the study of population genetics concerns dealing with relatedness. It is obvious that people coming from isolated rural populations with a lot of inbreeding (e.g. cousin marriages, or just a lack of choice) are going to be more closely related and so have a degree of genetic clustering, than two people taken at random from the giant cosmopolitan cities of the world. In public geneticists categorically deny this, and that is dishonest. 4) The theory pf population genetics shows that if positive selection bias exists in breeding, i.e. like prefers to mate with like, then genetic clusters can be dynamically maintained within a population. There are a whole range of human cultural practices around the world which suggest that there is social pressure for like to mate with like. This might contribute to the dynamic maintenance of clusters of genetic similarity within the human population across the world. Recently I have observed a curious thing. All the mass of data from human genome sequencing has provided a mass of detailed data about human genomes, but I have been unable to find one very simple statistic which I have long wondered about. Apparently no one is interested in this statistic, but it is quite revealing and potentially useful. What I would like to know, and it should be easily available from the wealth of human genome sequences, is what is the average percentage HOMOZYGOSITY in humans? Also how does this figure vary in different human populations? This figure could give some insight into the importance of point (4), but no one seems to be interested in the matter. Perhaps you can elucidate? If you are really interested in fighting racism then you should be aware that there is a new theory of "(pseudo)scientific racism" which is thriving, because no scientists are addressing it. This is particularly aimed at Africans, and it is the theory of the superiority of "Human-Neanderthal hybrids" and their descendants. I have approached scientists working in this field to address and combat this, but have found no response. Perhaps you would like to do a piece on this?
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
What is the source for your claim that geneticists are hiding information from the public? What is the source of this "theory" you mentioned about the supposed "superiority" of human-Neanderthal hybrids?
@bhangrafan4480
@bhangrafan4480 6 месяцев назад
I do not think you have read my comments properly. 1) I did not say that geneticists were "hiding information" from the public. I accused them of misrepresenting the content of genetic science to the public. Generally the public have not studied the subject, so they just don't have the information to judge for themselves. 2) The main body of my comments explain WHY I say this. It is on these points I would be interested in EXPERT comments. 3) I hope you are aware that I am NOT advocating the Neanderthal-Human hybrid superiority theory, rather I have been trying to find suitable experts to combat it. 4) I am not sure WHO originated this theory, only that it is being promoted by obviously racist sites such as Simon Webb's "Debunking History" RU-vid, which I have no desire to promote.@@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@bhangrafan4480 Your statement: "However in recent decades, geneticists, (and I was a geneticist in a former career, I am now retired), are so terrified of the public view that genetics as a discipline is at root racist, *that they go too far in trying to deny the realities of genetic diversity*, and in particular the clustering of humans genetically" That would imply that they're hiding information, since their public statements are the opposite of what you're saying. Regarding the Neanderthals thing, you don't need an expert for that. There are no studies or genetic data that supports or give evidence that Neanderthal admixture confers some type of intellectual advantage in humans. There is nothing in Neanderthal history that implies that they had higher cognitive abilities than humans. There is no data that shows that those with the highest amounts of Neanderthal admixture have higher cognitive abilities than other humans. Finally, Africans do indeed possess Neanderthal admixture, albeit to a lesser degree than other populations.
@bhangrafan4480
@bhangrafan4480 6 месяцев назад
As for the Neanderthal thing, good, well go and tell that to the people who are pushing that theory. Except provide the evidence to them instead of just saying that it exists. By which I mean papers, sources, citations. The trouble with all these debates is that so-called experts talk down to the public in a patronising way as if you have to believe us because we are the experts and wee don't need evidence. This arrogant attitude is causing public mistrust of science which comes across as dogmatic. @@NanakiRowan
@bhangrafan4480
@bhangrafan4480 6 месяцев назад
Stop side tracking. You do not understand a very simple thing. I have listed the key points that need addressing. If you like, the items they are NOT mentioning. If you wish to refute (disprove) them then address the points I raise. The simple fact is in science you don't find things sometimes unless you are looking for them. So if you choose not to look you don't see them, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If you are such an expert that you have all this mass of information at hand, then start by telling me the average percentage HOMOZYGOSITY in human populations, (preferably also its variance). I have spent sometime trying to find this but no one talks about it. All I can find is about 'runs of homozygosity' which are reported as individual items. Otherwise stop wasting my time. @@NanakiRowan
@clarencepsaila4743
@clarencepsaila4743 10 месяцев назад
wait...Mongolia is poor but Mongolians have a high IQ
@guilhermea2346
@guilhermea2346 Месяц назад
Have you ever stopped to analyze sources? There are no official IQ tests, there is no geographic census in relation to IQ, which is not even considered a measure of intelligence
@civilprotectionofficer858
@civilprotectionofficer858 12 дней назад
They don't? Also alcoholism is a real problem
@ryanm9566
@ryanm9566 2 месяца назад
Thanks for making this. I knew race was a social and legal construct, not a scientific one, and this helped me understand why. I think it's nice to know we're so closely connected to one another, like a big family. We should care for each other more, like family.
@lolary1479
@lolary1479 15 дней назад
Somali and Ethiopian people use to be considered a subset group under the White or Caucasoid race because of their skull shape, phenotype and facial features. Somali and Ethiopian people don't look like your stereotypical African because of their facial features. Somali and Ethiopian people were viewed as superior to Black people at one point. Race was not determined by skin complexion and during that time it was your culture, ethnicity and ethnic background that was used to determine your race.
@spantigre3190
@spantigre3190 4 месяца назад
You have to admit that map 6:50 is a mess. It's trying to too much and it's really busy. I don't even know what happened to the projection.
@boring7823
@boring7823 4 месяца назад
The projects looks like the "Robinson" one. It doesn't match any predefined mathematical relationship instead being designed so everywhere (except the actual polar regions) looks about right compared to an actual globe.
@guidobolke5618
@guidobolke5618 2 месяца назад
Thank you for making this video. I think I am a little less ignorant now.
@dontcensormebro3217
@dontcensormebro3217 11 месяцев назад
At 9:28, I would not doubt that the true variation is contiguous, but the prescence of those three colors is still undeniable. Yes, there are no set start or endpoints, but the fact that the red is seperable from the blue and green and purple and yellow is once again, undeniable. In other words, groupings may be arbritarily seperated, but the seperations themselves are still very real. If you seperated short people, average people, and tall people, you would get the same thing. What is a "short person"? 4'5"? 5'0"? 5'9"? 5'11? It's hard to exactly pinpoint, but it's certainly real.
@argeus3639
@argeus3639 11 месяцев назад
I don't know what your point is. That differences exist? No one said it doesn't. But that's differences between individuals, not 'race'.
@dontcensormebro3217
@dontcensormebro3217 11 месяцев назад
@@argeus3639 My points are that: 1) Differences exist, and are real. 2) These differences can be grouped together, even if arbitrarily. 3) These differences are not just randomly spread around the globe, but are part of clustered distributions. That is all.
@mentalprograming5365
@mentalprograming5365 10 месяцев назад
@@dontcensormebro3217 why would you want to group things together to begin with... thats the mindset that started racism.. class, groups and "cluster" perhaps that is primitive thinking to people that embrace being HUEmans
@dontcensormebro3217
@dontcensormebro3217 10 месяцев назад
@@mentalprograming5365 We group things all the time as human beings, and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging our differences. Even if you have this hippie-dippie universalist mentality that everything is everything, love is love, and we are all the same, humans (consciously or unconsciously) will inevitably group things. There will always be tall and short, black and white, male and female, whether you like it or not. We classify, group, sort, and identify almost everything we can in the pursuit of knowledge. Denying physiology, genetics, and the beauty and diversity of human life all for the sake of some universalistic moral grandstanding is ridiculous.
@a2sbestos768
@a2sbestos768 10 месяцев назад
But does the said difference exist? Colors themselves don't say anything about the supposed difference. Even if the difference between three points is 0.000000001 on some axis, it's still possible to divide them into three distinct colors. How do you pinpoint short person between three 6'5? And then arbitrary groupings (like skin color) are social constructs, not biological, which is the point.
@sstolarik
@sstolarik Год назад
Another issue with IQ testing is cultural bias. How was the test given written? By whom?
@fnfallout5664
@fnfallout5664 Год назад
Funny, because the consensus of both experts and amateurs alike is that IQ tests are not culturally biased, and questions that are culturally-charged yield the smallest race gaps. So in other words, yeah, let's remove those cultural questions and stick to pattern recognition and such, you have just made the 15-point IQ gap between Blacks and Whites wider. Genius.
@skp8748
@skp8748 Год назад
​@@fnfallout5664blacks and whites are valid groupings how?
@dontcensormebro3217
@dontcensormebro3217 11 месяцев назад
So, what's the alternative? Having some objective standard for measuring intelligence (specifically logic, memory, and pattern recognition, yes, there are many types of "intelligence", I know) seems kind of important to have.
@fnfallout5664
@fnfallout5664 11 месяцев назад
@@skp8748 What?
@skp8748
@skp8748 11 месяцев назад
@@fnfallout5664 why not shoe size? That's more empirical.
@garyrolen8764
@garyrolen8764 6 месяцев назад
Honest question. If genetic race isn't real, then why do i understand the genetic race of the suspect and victims when you say white and black? Aron ra covered this subject several years ago. He used the word cline. Perhaps race isn't the correct word, but in modern language the word race is used in place of the less known word cline to denote very real differences. Further could two Scottish people produce a black baby or two Koreans produce a white baby?
@garyrolen8764
@garyrolen8764 6 месяцев назад
What genetic variation is present in the domestic dog. I'd love to see the variation graphics you used here for human variation to dismiss racial differences to dismiss domestic dog breeds.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@garyrolen8764 Norton, H.L., Quillen, E.E., Bigham, A.W. et al. Human races are not like dog breeds: refuting a racist analogy. Evo Edu Outreach 12, 17 (2019).
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan I am hard pressed to trust any scientific study with the words racist and supremacist in it. Red flags for 'feelings' and not 'facts'. Leave politics out of science. We can have that discussion with ethics.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@Faus4us_Official I don't care what your bias allows you to believe or not. Data is data. If you can refute the data shown by the geneticists in the article, have at it. There is also nothing "political" about calling a spade a spade, or rather, a racist a racist.
@JasonKallerOfTempagencies
@JasonKallerOfTempagencies 5 месяцев назад
​@@NanakiRowanthey kinda are Humans have different genetic traits like dogs Genetic traits are not race. That's what the word efficacy means
@andrewmagdy977
@andrewmagdy977 Год назад
Dr Zach, Is it true that physical anthropologists still using today the concept of race to distinguish between the skulls to determine the "race" of the skull ? and if this happens today, how accurate those methods ? if someone is of mixed ancestry (European father and African mother) how can physical anthropologists determine his race if they still use the concept of race ??!!
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen Год назад
I'm not sure about physical anthropologists, but the practice is still common in forensic anthropology. The practice has been criticized since the 1990s, and anthropologist Alan Goodman has noted that, if you provide a group of anthropologists a set of skulls from known social races, their ability to assign them is no different than chance. Most forensic anthropology doesn't rely *solely* on skull characteristics, but also other data (e.g., we expect to find a victim in this place and the victim is known to be a Caucasian, for example). One characteristic in identifying "race" at the skull level is the post-bregmatic depression that supposedly identifies people of African descent. But subsequent studies found that only 40% of Africans possess the trait. There has been a reckoning underway in forensic anthropology recently to update their practices to reflect the complexity of ancestry. You can read more about it here: www.nytimes.com/2021/10/19/science/skeletons-racism.html.
@andrewmagdy977
@andrewmagdy977 Год назад
@@talkpopgen thanks Dr Zach
@skp8748
@skp8748 Год назад
​@@talkpopgenthat's not strictly true though north and horn africa have huge neolithic eurasian components in their ethnogenesis... no one expects africa like Asia to be a uniform racial grouping
@Stephen-so9oi
@Stephen-so9oi 10 месяцев назад
​@@talkpopgeninfactual and cherry picked data
@ReadytoChop
@ReadytoChop 4 месяца назад
Peoples incorrect notions of race drive me up the fucking wall. These myths are so persistent and so influential that it’s just a travesty.
@kylealexander593
@kylealexander593 2 месяца назад
I'm the exact opposite. It blows my mind that people think race is some social construct. The evidence is so clear. Race is real, there are biological differences.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
@@kylealexander593 Just saying "it's real", doesn't prove anything.
@zzz-nu2re
@zzz-nu2re 2 месяца назад
Where is the asian and white africans? All of them are immigrants, there arent any africans who developed anything other than black or albino
@kylealexander593
@kylealexander593 2 месяца назад
@@NanakiRowan Everyone understands their are different races. Are bone structure is different. You can tell a person's race simply by looking at the skull even if the skull is thousands of years old. We have different dna unique to each race. But people know this. That's why colleges ask what race you are. If race was a social construct why ask? Can a white guy get hired under affirmative action? Each race has its unique history. To try and erase someone's heritage for some social justice stuff is wrong.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
@@kylealexander593 I'm sorry, but no one can tell one's "race" by looking at a skull. Even using forensic computer programs only have a confidence level of 1%. There is no DNA that is unique to each "race". There is not a single gene that is exclusively found in one "race". ". If race was a social construct why ask? Can a white guy get hired under affirmative action?" Certainly. One only need to tick a box stating that he is a white woman (who are also affirmative action recipients). " Each race has its unique history. " No, every geographic location has it's own unique history. You're saying some very odd things.
@johanlarsson9805
@johanlarsson9805 5 месяцев назад
It's been 15 years since my populationgenetics studies, but, aren't you missing the point with all your talk about variation? Yes all variation might be in africa (like it is in the wolf), but the real indicator is the allel freqency of a certain group (like dog breeds). You can look at a specific loci and clearly say, based on allel frequencies at that loci, if your samples are from the same group or multiple different groups. Repeat this for 10000 loci and you KNOW, FOR SURE, they are indeed real groups that differ from eachother in the composition. I mean, we were 100 people in class and nobody even thought this was strange... I mean, we had exam questions about proving the number sepperate "quarg" groups on isolated islands. Are you saying we were all wrong and it is impossible to identify groups?
@poody771
@poody771 5 месяцев назад
Some anthropologists wrote a study debunking your argument you're trying to make. Should I provide it?
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 5 месяцев назад
Allele frequency still only gives estimations.
@johanlarsson9805
@johanlarsson9805 5 месяцев назад
@@poody771 Yes please, since to my knowledge all those debunkings are wrong. And the thing is, they HAVE to be wrong, i've worked on this my self, personally (granted it was 15 years ago but still), the data will form groups that show our races if you look at more than 100 loci. Looking at the entire genome, it is impossible to ignore. I mean, how do you think all the "lineology" sites work (like myheritage)? The "forming of groups" is so strong and evident if you look at enough loci that you can even see which section of which country you come from.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 5 месяцев назад
@@johanlarsson9805 If you check the disclaimers of commercial DNA tests such as 23andMe and MyHeritage, they will tell you that they are only able to make estimates on someone's ancestral makeup, hence why test results change over time. One day you could show 1% African, and the next it's gone and grouped into "unassigned" or it switches to 3% Asian, etc.
@johanlarsson9805
@johanlarsson9805 5 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan What are you talking about? No, your allel frequency in the sample is an estimation of the allel frequency of that population. The rest is not estimations. Without any groups, assumptions, or anything, just start sequencing genomes from different people around the world. Then do a nearest neighbour tree of genetic sequences... for one or a handfull of loci it will be completly random, since most of the variation is within groups (meaning there is significant overlapp for each trait or alleles). However, now do the same for 10 or 100 loci, and you will see the data organize into groups matching our races. It is verry clear and you can not miss it. Any scientist knows this. I think what most misses is; it it usefull knowledge? And no, since most of the variation is within groups it means that knowing someones race does not let you deduce anything specific about someones genes. You could say if something is less or more likely, but you wouldnt know for sure.
@averytaylor7823
@averytaylor7823 Год назад
What about smaller more closely related populations, like people from different islands or different insular religious communities? Could they be considered to be genetically distinct enough to count as a race?
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen Год назад
Even the really isolated populations, it turns out, aren't as isolated as we once thought. They've either colonized islands so recently that there hasn't been differentiation, or they colonized it long ago but there was frequent migration from the mainland. Since we have such long generation times, we need to be isolated for a *very* long time to accumulate sufficient differences to meet one of the definitions of race I used here; no extant human population meets that criteria.
@MossyMozart
@MossyMozart 9 месяцев назад
@averytaylor7823 - I would like to point out to you that many of us carry within our cbodies the DNA of Neanderthals, Denisovans, and another group not yet discovered outside of the DNA. We have interbred with THREE other species! Even though they are considered different species, or "races" if you will, we were biologically close enough for this to happen. -------------- A few scientists are even wondering if those groups are not separate species after all, but subgroups of Sapiens. If we can be that biologically close to the Denisovans, we sure can be the same species to your hypothetical islanders.
@MrNess-je5bf
@MrNess-je5bf 7 месяцев назад
@@talkpopgenquestion, so I am Irish American by genetics. And I have heard the genetic theories of Celts from the west and Theories placing Scottish and Irish more related to Italian, Spaniards, North Africans, and Middle Easterns than other European peoples? Do you believe these theories are true? Because according to my DNA results showing where my ancestors migrated they first came out of South Africa then to the Middle East in the lower areas of the black sea then all of them went around the coast of Western Europe into Spain or went through North Africa into Spain and then they jumped to Ireland. Is this isolated to me and other individuals in Ireland? Or do most Irish people trace their genetics back to that area I think it’s called Iberia. I really really want to know the answer to this because it’s close to me I have full lips, curly kinky hair, thick eyebrows, a jawline that comes out from my forehead, and a rounded nose. I live in an almost entirely British descendent white area in America, and I’m often mistaken for black or mixed despite me being paler than they are. I’ve been bullied for discriminated against because of the way I look I’ve been called the N-word, shamrock N-word, monkey face. I want to know if I really am related to those people because I’ve also spent the majority of my life around Africans and Italians, because I come from mostly Italian family, and the majority of my friends are black Americans. I viewed them as my brothers and sisters and I still will even if I’m not related to them, but has never sat right with me how Irish are immediately labeled as Europeans despite all the theories that we are not.
@andrewmagdy977
@andrewmagdy977 Год назад
Dr Zach, All people share 99.9 percent of genetic material but there are genetic testing companies that tell people that they have (for example 80% European, 10% native american and 10% african) what does it mean, because many people think that this genetic testing prove the idea of distinctive races between humans
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen Год назад
Good question, it has two answers: 1) genetic testing companies are using the clustering-based approaches I discussed in the video which obscure the continuous pattern of human ancestry for the simplicity of their customers; and 2) the 0.1% are the variants they are using to make their designations. If there are 1000 variants that are correlated with geography, and you have 800 that are found at their highest frequency in Europe, then the company says you're "80% European". But their dataset is 1000 variants out of the 3.5 billion bases in the human genome - they are using a tiny fraction of the genome to make their designation.
@andrewmagdy977
@andrewmagdy977 Год назад
@@talkpopgen Thanks Dr Zach
@fomalhauto
@fomalhauto Год назад
@@talkpopgen great points also ...geographical ancestry is not the same as race which is social construct that is arbitrary I hate that a lot of people think that these ethnic analyses are proof that multiple races exist.
@Agenthoneydew33
@Agenthoneydew33 Год назад
​@@fomalhautopeople who think that are dumb. Ethnicity is more real than race. Smh I wish people would just accept race isn't real and humans are just humans
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@talkpopgen Wait, you're saying we should ignore the data because its a 'tiny fraction'? That sounds rather unscientific.
@Kammerliteratur
@Kammerliteratur Год назад
Great video. Could you do a follow-up explaining what haplo groups are, what they can tell us about human migration waves in prehistory, and why they, of course, aren't biological races, too? - But please only after you've finished another episode of your brilliant Evolution of Invertebrate series. I'm as hyped for this series as people were for new iphones ten years ago.
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen Год назад
Haha ok deal - next video will be Evo of Inverts. I've been exceptionally busy with a departmental seminar I gave a few days ago, and the Evo of Invert series requires far more brainpower and research per video than these, so it went to the backburner. But now that I'm a little more free, I'll be getting back into them!
@Kammerliteratur
@Kammerliteratur Год назад
@@talkpopgen how wonderful! that's so good to hear!
@whatabouttheearth
@whatabouttheearth Год назад
Speaking of Haplogroups, check out that big chunk of black Africans from an early R1b group that migrated back to Africa. That's interesting and will make people think about so called race when they think about how there is a group of the predominant western European haplogroup in Africa that have unique haplogroups after R1b (in other words, early split off)
@ProtoIndoEuropean88
@ProtoIndoEuropean88 10 месяцев назад
@@whatabouttheearth Study about Cro Magnon's history to debunk your anti race nonsense
@whatabouttheearth
@whatabouttheearth 10 месяцев назад
@@ProtoIndoEuropean88 Wtf does Cro Magnon have to do with anything? There is not even founders effect from the first Cro Magnon to modern Europeans What do you not understand about the fact that haplogroups, phenotype, color, ethnicity, clines and demes exist...but not "race"? People apply the concept of "Race" in a confused manner that conflates haplogroups, phenotype, color, ethnicity, clines/demes in anyway people seek to define it at the time. This is why Irish and Italians used to be seen as a different "race" from Germans in the 19th century US, but now they are considered the same "race", white, because the construct of race in the US changed from nationality to skin color. One has haplogroups, phenotype, color, ethnicity, clines/demes but "race" is simply a term that people use to define all, one, or some of these in a confusing and ignorant manner. "Race" is a social construct that has no BIOLOGICAL reality, as in pertaining to actual biological sciences, because what you are looking at that has biological reality are haplogroups, phenotype, color, ethnicity clines/demes, etc I suggest the book 'Our Origins: Discovering Physical Anthropology' by Clark Spencer Larsen to start.
@lambda653
@lambda653 3 месяца назад
Not that i disagree with any of your arguments, or that I believe in race realism, but some time ago I saw some graphic that showed there was more genetic diversity between groups humans compared to subspecies of wolves. Is that actually true? Or is it misleading? Like, can you make all the same arguments for why subspecies of wolves aren't races the same way people from different continents aren't different races?
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 3 месяца назад
No, it isn't true. The memes you are referring to are falsified. There are entire re/ddit threads debunking them.
@CETGale
@CETGale 3 месяца назад
True we all have different levels of DNA from different archaic species.... Europeans - Neanderthal admixture... Asian - Neanderthal and Denisovian admixture.... Africans have up to 20% admixture with an archaic ghost species not found outside of Africa.... He is wrong about racial differences... I take it he is a leftist/Marxist and he is pushing an agenda... Racial hate and crime is wrong no matter who does it but we do have differences culturally and genetic and saying this fact is not racist.......
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 3 месяца назад
@@CETGale According to a study published in 2020, there are indications that 2% to 19% (or about ≃6.6 and ≃7.0%) of the DNA of four West African populations may have come from an unknown archaic hominin which split from the ancestor of humans and Neanderthals between 360 kya to 1.02 mya. However, in contrast to the studies of Skoglund and Lipson with ancient African DNA, the study also finds that at least part of this proposed archaic admixture is also present in Eurasians/non-Africans, and that the admixture event or events range from 0 to 124 ka B.P, which includes the period before the Out-of-Africa migration and prior to the African/Eurasian split (thus affecting in part the common ancestors of both Africans and Eurasians/non-Africans).[86][87][88] Another recent study, which discovered substantial amounts of previously undescribed human genetic variation, also found ancestral genetic variation in Africans that predates modern humans and was lost in most non-Africans
@poody771
@poody771 3 месяца назад
Not true at all. Plus many people who use this argument don't seem to know what "subspecies" actually mean in zoology and biology.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
@@IndoAryanKang No, it isn't true.
@scottbrower9052
@scottbrower9052 Год назад
Then how do neighborhoods get destroyed?
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen Год назад
You think biological races destroy neighborhoods. And I'm assuming you think CERTAIN "biological races" destroy neighborhoods too, huh? I wonder which ones those are?
@thylacoleonkennedy7
@thylacoleonkennedy7 Год назад
Redlining. Redlining is how they get destroyed. Thanks, Reagan!
@blackhawk_Enochserpent
@blackhawk_Enochserpent 8 месяцев назад
your wife's boyfriend.@@talkpopgen
@sacbeme
@sacbeme 5 месяцев назад
Most intelligent 4chan user
@blackhawk_Enochserpent
@blackhawk_Enochserpent 5 месяцев назад
its sad 4 chan youtubers ganged up on this video they aer stupid because they have a penis and balls unlike me.@@sacbeme
@dontknowdontcare2531
@dontknowdontcare2531 3 месяца назад
The methodology of the studies you cite are inferior to twin studies which, a simple google search can tell you, prove that IQ is highly heritable. "Early twin studies of adult individuals have found a heritability of IQ between 57% and 73%, with some recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80%. IQ goes from being weakly correlated with genetics for children, to being strongly correlated with genetics for late teens and adults."
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 3 месяца назад
Can you please tell us what the study of twins, who are of the same race, tells us about any variability between races? Can you also please explain how the methodology of the studies that he cited (which have never been falsified or found to be flawed), are "inferior" to anything? Finally, are you aware of how heritability actually works within the context of groups (not individual)?
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 3 месяца назад
Also, where is your quote from?
@dontknowdontcare2531
@dontknowdontcare2531 3 месяца назад
@@NanakiRowan i've got nothing
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 3 месяца назад
@@dontknowdontcare2531 Thank you for your honesty.
@poody771
@poody771 3 месяца назад
​@@dontknowdontcare2531Lol.
@samsondog2182
@samsondog2182 5 месяцев назад
You can tell what race someone is just by looking at their bones, its genetic.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 5 месяцев назад
No, you cannot.
@poody771
@poody771 5 месяцев назад
What forensic anthropologist or geneticist told you this?
@andycampbell8622
@andycampbell8622 5 месяцев назад
This is just phrenology 😅
@draco9513
@draco9513 Месяц назад
Did you pull that out your butt or something?
@isaac3140
@isaac3140 Месяц назад
Did Irish people's bones change in 200 years from nonwhite to white?
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
This is quite alright if you delete my comments. That shows you have no respect for free discussion and open discourse. I've got Zach B. Hancock written down.
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
NanakiRowan: "Instead of seething and presenting zero arguments against the facts presented here, why not make an argument instead of an ad hominem attack against Dr. Hancock?" Didn't care to look at the links I posted before further attempts at insults. Go to the links provided in the other comments if they haven't been deleted already. "Again, no one said all individuals are the same. Reading comprehension is paramount to understanding the topics of discussion here." Proceeds to be a hypocrite. When did I once mention *individuals*?
@Epic-so3ek
@Epic-so3ek 4 месяца назад
Ah yes, an actual expert. Refreshing.
@julianolan2860
@julianolan2860 Год назад
Thanks Zach, a video to treasure. I learned something new in the way to present my arguments to others here in racist Australia by your explanation about the cultural idea. My tendency has been to make strong sweeping remarks about humanity sharing its genome. Hooray, it's been proven! There are no races! Now I see I might be able to win them round with acknowledging the cultural concept, lessening the discomfort and often guilty feelings that hamper people from making the efforts to undue conditioning. I will try. Nevertheless, expect my feisty response when someone says they saw "the chinese doctor" with "Oh, I thought they saw more than Chinese patients!!". Old lady perniketty!! Once upon a time we did not need science to acknowledge our common humanity, just respect! What great souls were they!! Best wishes Julia
@Unknown-th8hx
@Unknown-th8hx 3 дня назад
The things that make us different are what we focus on not those that which makes us similar.
@user-jh2xp2sk3z
@user-jh2xp2sk3z 10 месяцев назад
As a person who has had the chance to travel and discover different cultures, I often find this obsession here in the US with race to be so outdated, backwater.
@ynotlearn4190
@ynotlearn4190 10 месяцев назад
As compared to what? What place have you been on this planet where race is not an issue?
@user-jh2xp2sk3z
@user-jh2xp2sk3z 10 месяцев назад
Discrimination is universal, humans discrimninate based on religion, status, gender, bank account... but race discrimination is really an American thing.@@ynotlearn4190
@Metternich_Enjoyer
@Metternich_Enjoyer 6 месяцев назад
@@ynotlearn4190Europe.
@XanaxMilf
@XanaxMilf 5 месяцев назад
@@ynotlearn4190anywhere outside the west actually. I’ve been to africa they are not really race obsessed. They’re just minding their own business being part of the flow of life and survival
@XanaxMilf
@XanaxMilf 5 месяцев назад
@@bc1830fam race is barely of biological basis, it’s a construct
@meab12
@meab12 5 месяцев назад
Im not very knowledgeable with this stuff, and maybe im missing the point, but it doesn't seem to address actual physical differences, like how theres a tribe in Africa (sudan, i think) , that are tall, and yet pygmys are short. Its a virtual certainty that the next winner of the 100metres sprinting gold medal in the olympics will be black and of west African heritage. Even the hair of a black person is different to other races. So many different physical characteristics, and theyre not about environmental factors, surely? Such an interesting topic
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 5 месяцев назад
It's because physical differences differ more between individuals than between groups. Normally, the winers of Olympic gold in the 100 meter dash are either American or Carribean. Both populations have European (and Indigenous American) ancestry. To my knowledge, the event has never been won by a West African. In fact, the most recent champion, Marcell Jacobs, is half Italian and half African American, making his ancestry almost certainly for the most part, primarily European. Group sports performance is cultural, not genetic. The kinky hair of "black" people also found in Oceanians, such as Polynesians and the natives of Papua New Guinea. There are no human phenotypes that are exclusive to one "race".
@meab12
@meab12 5 месяцев назад
@NanakiRowan I don't agree with you. Somalians for example, are all similar , physically. What about the pygmys I mentioned? Maasai? All similar. Yes, Americans or Carribeans generally win sprint races, but the common denominator is their west African heritage, and they have more west African heritage than anything else. Jacobs has an Italian mother , yes, but he has a lot of West African in him through his father. Only one white man has run a sub 10 seconds 100 metres. One. Youre right, not only black people have kinky hair, but where are the black people without kinky hair? I'm pretty sure I've never seen a black person with straight hair.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 5 месяцев назад
@@meab12 That's ok, you don't have to agree with me. Your example proves my point. Somalians are black Africans, and have average traits not found in the average, say, Nigerian, who is also a black African. I'm not sure what you're trying to really prove with the height thing. If we were to use height as a measurement of race, then the Maasai are most similar to the Dutch, who are the tallest group in the world, and are therefore "white". Actually the common denominator in the 100 meter sprint is country of origin. If it were down to west African ancestry, we would be seeing actual west Africans winning. They're not. As I said, due to the fact that African Americans have on average 25% European ancestry, and Jacobs being half Italian, most of his ancestry is in fact, European, so you can leave him out of any subsequent arguments. There have been a few white men to run the 100 meter in less than 10 seconds, and even more people of non-west African descent, including Asian. I'm sorry, but achievement in the 100 meter dash is not a measure of race. If you haven't seen black people with straight hair, you should go to Somalia and other countries in the Horn of Africa. If you'd like to know anymore about the subject of race and genetics, just ask.
@meab12
@meab12 5 месяцев назад
@NanakiRowan I agree with you that the term "black" isn't an accurate term, with all of the different tribes in Africa. Its the same with "white". Its not an accurate term. The reason I mentioned the height thing is that the height difference in the example i provided is between the two tribes, or groups. Yes, the Dutch are tall too, but there's a far greater variance in the physical appearance of Dutch people than that of the maasai. Also, there are plenty of short Dutch people. The common denominator in the 100 metres sprint is not the country of origin. In a final or semi final, in other words, when you have the best against each other, you generally have sprinters from USA, Britain, Jamaica, France, Canada, Nigeria. All of west African heritage. Even when something rare like someone representing Italy get to the final, like Jacobs, did, he's has a lot of west African heritage too. Nigerian sprinters suffer from a lack of funding and infrastructure in Nigeria. The conditions there don't allow them to fulfill their potential, even though, occasionally, they do get to Olympic finals. They regularly end up representing other countries too, where they are better supported. It doesn't make sense that Jacobs isn't relevant. First, you cant assume his father is 25% European based on an average. Jacobs is remarkable though in that he's the closest sprinter to white to do what he did, albeit with a large amount of African heritage. Where are the world class sprinters of just European heritage though, be they American, Canadian, Jamaican or from a European country? They're basically non existent. The only one of can think of to break the 10 second barrier is Christophe Lemaitre of France. He became relatively well known for this, but only because he's European. Even though his 100m time wasn't special, it was for a European. If there are more, I dont know of them, and they are extremely rare. Do you have yoruba people with straight hair? I agree with this guy about race being a social construct. It is a social construct, because its a generalisation. It being a social construct doesn't explain the differences between different peoples though. Talking about genes isn't much good when talking to me, because I next very little knowledge of it.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 5 месяцев назад
@@meab12 I'm sorry, but your response is a fallacy known as "moving the goalposts". Moving the goalposts is an informal fallacy in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. That is, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt. The problem with changing the rules of the game is that the meaning of the result is changed, too. Your argument about the diversity of height between pygmies and the Maasai was used as a measurement of the existence of race. Now that I showed you that the Maasai and the Dutch are of similar height, and are therefore (by your measurement) the same race, you have "moved the goalposts" and are now trying to argue that there are more short Dutch people than short Maasai people. *Of course* there are more shorter Dutch people, as there are tens of millions more Dutch people than there are Maasai people. That is a fallacy unto itself. I'm sorry, but the common denominator of the winners of the 100 meter dash (which you keep using as a measurement of the existence of race) is country of origin. Your original argument was that virtually all the winners have been of west African descent. Now that I've shown that to be false, and in light of the fact that *all* of the populations who produce these winners, are admixed, you are "moving the goalposts" and are now saying "oh but some of the runners up *aren't* from America or the Caribbean", when that was never the argument you were making in the first place. "Nigerian sprinters suffer from a lack of funding and infrastructure in Nigeria. " Ah yes, I am sure that running requires an ample supply of funding and a stable infrastructure. Forgive me for laughing, but lol. " First, you cant assume his father is 25% European based on an average. Jacobs is remarkable though in that he's the closest sprinter to white to do what he did, albeit with a large amount of African heritage. " I didn't assume anything. *All* African Americans have European ancestry, as proven by decades of genetic tests and research. Regardless of whatever Jacobs's father's admixture is, be it 25% or 1%, it still places Jacob's ancestry as primarily European. "Where are the world class sprinters of just European heritage though, be they American, Canadian, Jamaican or from a European country? They're basically non existent." This question is another example of "moving the goalposts". Also, there aren't many world class sprinters in the world to begin with. On top of that, I already told you there are sprinters of non-west African descent who run the 100 in less than 10 seconds (which was your original argument). "Do you have yoruba people with straight hair? " I'm not sure why you're asking me that. You said that you'd never seen a black person with straight hair. I told you exactly where to go to find them.
@DominusNobody
@DominusNobody 5 месяцев назад
If this is the case, 'ethnicity' also becomes a flawed term because, if we remove socio-cultural factors and the like from consideration, we are left with 'biological race'; and if this doesn't exist, neither does ethnicity (in the biological sense). I am not being facetious.
@aoukoa607
@aoukoa607 5 месяцев назад
You literally have no idea what you are talking about. 1. Ethnicity is like, inherently tied to sociocultural factors, that's in large part the whole point 2. Even if we could strip ethnicity down so that only the biologically determined factors remained, it would be an utterly pointless exercise, as it wouldn't tell you anything, as either the boundaries you create would have to be arbitrary and extremely surface level (i.e. modern race) or specific enough that without any additional cultural components, they would be entirely meaningless
@DominusNobody
@DominusNobody 5 месяцев назад
@@aoukoa607 No need to get snappy, as there seems to be a misunderstanding. Both your points 1 and 2 actually align with my argument rather than contradicting it. Indeed, ethnicity has no grounding in biology. Unfortunately, people often (wittingly or unwittingly) 'smuggle in' notions of biology or 'race' when they ask questions like 'What is Mr. X’s ethnicity?' or suggest someone isn't truly of a certain ethnicity due to their appearance or ancestry (someone might erroneously say, 'You are not really Chinese because even though you were born and live in China, speak the local language, accept the culture and traditions, you don't look Chinese, but African and have African ancestry.'). So, 'ethnicity' (identity) is not grounded in biology. Quite the opposite. By choice, one can even steer their 'ethnicity' and change it.
@poody771
@poody771 5 месяцев назад
Not really.
@DominusNobody
@DominusNobody 5 месяцев назад
Ethnicity is a social category impressed upon individuals, either from within the ethnic community itself or by external societal influences. This phenomenon shapes one's identity, which is largely determined by self-perception and social conditioning. However, personal choices can lead to revolutionary changes to one’s loyalty, sense of belonging, belief systems, behaviour, language, ideology, and other aspects, resulting in profound alterations to one's identity. Thus, ethnicity, being part and parcel of identity, is, in essence, mutable.
@danielpiesto532
@danielpiesto532 19 дней назад
What was first: differences in iq or differences in wealth.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 16 дней назад
Wealth.
@emailjwr
@emailjwr 6 месяцев назад
Thanks for your effort and research here. The problem I see is that you've straw-manned the race realist position. Typically we view humanity as a muddy mix and we grant that it's all shades of gray, however we also assert that self-identified "race" aligns with ancestral population group for ~98% of people (this has been shown empirically), and thus despite this muddiness, we are able to usefully delineate population groups using self-identified race, the same way we can usefully delineate colours that exist on a spectrum. Further, your sampling of data on race and IQ is selective, to put it mildly. The heritability of IQ is 80% by adulthood, and the vast majority of intelligence researchers when surveyed believe that at least some of the racial IQ gap is genetic in origin. You would have produced a much stronger polemic here if you had addressed the very strong data that opposes your opinion.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
"the vast majority of intelligence researchers when surveyed believe that at least some of the racial IQ gap is genetic in origin" Source? Also, how many researchers? " The heritability of IQ is 80% by adulthood" Between individuals or between groups? "we also assert that self-identified "race" aligns with ancestral population group for ~98% of people (this has been shown empirically)" Correspondence between genetic clusters in a population (such as the current US population) and self-identified race or ethnic groups does not mean that such a cluster (or group) corresponds to only one ethnic group. African Americans have an estimated 20-25-percent European genetic admixture; Hispanics have European, Native American and African ancestry. In Brazil there has been extensive admixture between Europeans, Amerindians and Africans. As a result, skin color differences within the population are not gradual, and there are relatively weak associations between self-reported race and African ancestry. Ethnoracial self- classification in Brazilians is certainly not random with respect to genome individual ancestry, but the strength of the association between the phenotype and median proportion of African ancestry varies largely across population. "Further, your sampling of data on race and IQ is selective" Source? Final question. Although the term "race realist" is an oxymoron, can you cite even just one hereditarian (which you clearly believe in) researcher who has *not* been associated with any far-right, white supremacist/nationalist (they're the same thing anyway) organizations?
@emailjwr
@emailjwr 6 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan @NanakiRowan the source for the beliefs of intelligence researchers is Rindermann et al. IIRC only 14% are pure environmentalists. If you have a superior survey showing otherwise, please produce it. Between-group heritability is an oxymoron - heritability can only be assessed within a population by definition. Do you know anything about this field? Why are you obsessing about the one country of Brazil? That doesn't refute my points at the global level lmao, and stinks of desperation. He cited only the evidence that leans toward an environmental explanation for group differences, and therefore it's inarguable that his sampling of data was selective. I don't need a source for the trivially obvious. Richard Haier.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@emailjwr Regarding Rindermann et al. This study is quoted by hereditarians who argue it shows their view is mainstream. However, this is erroneous for five reasons: (1) the environmentalist viewpoint was never solely 0% of differences due to genes, since anti-hereditarians have always accepted the possibility genes are negligibly involved (above zero, but close to zero e.g. 3%) in between-group heritability. (2) For this reason clearly more than 17% of experts are anti-hereditarians (3) The largest amount of experts argue for "0-40% of differences due to genes" which is lower than Jensen's threshold of defining hereditarianism as at least 50%. (4) The study suffers from the same bias as the other survey. (In this case, the survey was emailed to 1237 individuals, but only 228 (18%) participated in the survey, of which *just 70* completed it.) (5) The survey isn't even peer-reviewed. I'm sorry, but the opinions of 29 "researchers", does not represent the opinions of the "Vast majority" of intelligence researchers in the world. I honestly wish you had read the study before attempting to use it to make false statements and support your claims (which it doesn't). "Between-group heritability is an oxymoron - heritability can only be assessed within a population by definition. Do you know anything about this field? " So the heritability of intelligence between blacks and whites isn't 80%. Thank you for acknowledging. "Why are you obsessing about the one country of Brazil? " Obsessing? I used it as just one country that shows that what you are claiming about self-identification doesn't really mean what you think it does. "He cited only the evidence that leans toward an environmental explanation for group differences, and therefore it's inarguable that his sampling of data was selective. I don't need a source for the trivially obvious. " That's because it's the only data that actually exists. If you have valid sources showing otherwise, go ahead and cite them as I asked. "Richard Haier" I definitely would not go that far considering who he pals around with, defends, and what he let pass peer-review when the papers failed peer-review in all other journals....but even then, I haven't found any papers from him showing any data that supports hereditarianism.
@emailjwr
@emailjwr 6 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan like I already said re Rindermann, show me a better study on expert opinion on this question. Until you can produce one, this is the best answer we have on the question. What is your evidence in the opposite direction? If you have none, why do you believe it? Even granting your "3%" genetic influence, Rindemann still showed only 19% of respondents hold your view (0%-10% genetic contribution). This means that you are in the extreme minority, and hence solidifies my point that OP in this case didn't accurately reflect the weight of evidence. Richard Haier has written explicitly that both genetic and environmental factors influence these gaps, see his response piece to Vox in Quillette where he says the same thing I do - that environmentalists' views aren't aligned with the balance of the available evidence. One example of data supporting the hereditarian view is the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study, where the results aligned perfectly with what we'd expect on a hereditarian view, and not at all what we could expect on an environmentalist view. That genes affect these differences is the default hypothesis - genes affect virtually every metric and trait we care about, and we already know for a fact that genes vary between population groups, hence the unique distributions of diseases like Tay-Sachs, sickle cell anemia, and others. Consider also high altitude adaptive phenotypes, another example of recent evolution of specific population groups based on geography. It takes an unbelievable leap to acknowledge the thousands of cases of genetic adaptations that are beyond dispute, and then to believe that evolution wouldn't act on intelligence. It's just wishful thinking.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@emailjwr As I said, there is no person on Earth (at least, no one who is honest) that would maintain that the opinions of 29 people represent the opinions of a global majority. As far as I know, Rindermann (who of course, is associated with various far-right white supremacist organizations) is the only pseudoscientist who attempted to survey such an opinion, and he himself admits that most of the psychologists requested for the survey, ignored or declined taking part in it, with one responding that only someone with an agenda would even attempt to conduct such a survey. That said, I can provide you with various surveys and statements of geneticists, biologists, and anthropologists who state (and have shown) that race doesn't even biologically exist, therefore negating this whole "black-white gap" by default. Would you like those? "Even granting your "3%" genetic influence, Rindemann still showed only 19% of respondents hold your view (0%-10% genetic contribution). " Irrelevant, because a single digit number of participants is not representative of tens of thousands of researchers. " see his response piece to Vox in Quillette " Quillette? The far-right "academic" online magazine that tries to present itself as centrist and libertarian, when in reality it serves to legitimize and propagate many views shared by the alt-right which regularly publishes wingnuttery-laden articles from a strongly conservative and reactionary viewpoint that are anti-feminist, xenophobic, Islamophobic, homophobic, and transphobic, with several articles outright endorsing racialism and HBD ("human-biodiversity") eugenicist pseudoscience, popular among white nationalists and Neo-Nazis? Haier wrote for them? You said that Haier was not associated with any far-right white supremacist organizations..... "One example of data supporting the hereditarian view is the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study" Apparently you didn't read Scarr and Weinberg's follow up to their study in 1992, in which they state "social environment maintains a dominant role in determining the average IQ level of black and interracial children and that both social and genetic variables contribute to *individual variations* among them" I don't think that you've researched this subject very well, sir. " we already know for a fact that genes vary between population groups, hence the unique distributions of diseases like Tay-Sachs, sickle cell anemia, and others. Consider also high altitude adaptive phenotypes, another example of recent evolution of specific population groups based on geography. " So what you're saying is that West Africans and Indians are the same race? Or that Tibetans aren't actually Asian? Please specify. " It takes an unbelievable leap to acknowledge the thousands of cases of genetic adaptations that are beyond dispute, and then to believe that evolution wouldn't act on intelligence" Not really. Human intelligence is the most complex trait on the planet Earth, and is governed by thousands of gene variants. The most of the examples you gave of adaptations are governed only by a single gene variant. It's false equivalency. Those adaptations were driven by environmental pressures. There is no such (and hasn't been) environmental pressures for human intelligence. In fact, it is theorized that we (humans) reached our current level of intelligence before humans even left Africa. Geneticist and neuroscientist, Kevin Mitchell, explains it best: ""To end up with systematic genetic differences in intelligence between large, ancient populations, the selective forces driving those differences would need to have been enormous. What's more, those forces would have to have acted across entire continents, with wildly different environments, and have been persistent over tens of thousands of years of tremendous cultural change. While genetic variation may help to explain why one person is more intelligent than another, there are unlikely to be stable and systematic genetic differences that make one population more intelligent than the next." Anyway, given that you came to a video who's subject is the biological invalidity of race, to discuss IQ and defend hereditarianism, shows a great deal of bias an agenda on your part.....
@kudjoeadkins-battle2502
@kudjoeadkins-battle2502 2 месяца назад
Awesome Video!! There are so many Robert Sepher sycophants challenging arguments that were disputed with proof in the video.
@LiberatedMind1
@LiberatedMind1 10 дней назад
Race can be determined visually (phenotype) and by DNA (genotype), same way we differentiate and two species or subspecies.
@kudjoeadkins-battle2502
@kudjoeadkins-battle2502 10 дней назад
@@LiberatedMind1 not true. Melanesians look like Africans but are more genetically related to Asians.
@kudjoeadkins-battle2502
@kudjoeadkins-battle2502 10 дней назад
@@LiberatedMind1 genetically there are more types of Africans than all other groups combined.
@kipkipper-lg9vl
@kipkipper-lg9vl 2 месяца назад
take a look at a PCA chart lol
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
Checked it out. Dr. Hancock (and the rest of the researchers of population genetics) are correct.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
@@IndoAryanKang About what?
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
@@IndoAryanKang He does? Can you quote him on that?
@Magnonx
@Magnonx 2 месяца назад
@@IndoAryanKang interesting, need to check this out
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
@@IndoAryanKang Wait a minute, who said that genetic variation doesn't exist between human populations?
@BaronVonQuiply
@BaronVonQuiply 3 месяца назад
Erika mentioned this video to a caller on SkepTalk yesterday so I paused the show to come see it.
@TheGloryofMusic
@TheGloryofMusic 3 месяца назад
Regarding IQ scores, I wonder what is the effect of epigenetics.
@nebulan
@nebulan 2 месяца назад
I'm not sure how it would affect things at all. The best thing to explain IQ is access to education vs poverty. I imagine all humans have very similar epigenetic responses to those environmental factors.
@kgilmore
@kgilmore 7 месяцев назад
Thank you for another excellent presentation, the passion with which you present it, and the contempt with which you treat the mouth-breathing racists trolls in the comments.
@somerandommen
@somerandommen 9 месяцев назад
A lot of people who are gonna be sent to Nuremberg 2 in these comments... 💀💀
@somerandommen
@somerandommen 8 месяцев назад
@daniele.3361 It's relevant to the meta of this comment section??
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
That makes Dachau look like kindergarten. At least they'll have a court of law to pass a guilty verdict for any future cases pushing this BS that quasi-scientists want to promulgate. I get it, you're scared of losing your job and reputation. A small difference is still a difference though. Science takes into account all available data. Otherwise, we are cherry-picking AKA lying to ourselves. Accurate science is what matters here, not how you feel about the results.
@pseudopetrus
@pseudopetrus Год назад
Very good Zack! I am so glad to watch your videos! I look forward to them!
@romulusmars3766
@romulusmars3766 Месяц назад
Could you do this for dogs, wolves, and coyotes because I have a feeling a bunch of animals are about to be a single species with no way to sub divide
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen Месяц назад
You can apply the techniques I discussed to our closest relatives, chimps and gorillas, and uncover discrete structure indicating they have subspecies. Using PCA, nearly 30% of the variance is explained by a split between western and eastern chimpanzees, and almost 10% separating central and eastern despite their geographic proximity (www.cell.com/cell-genomics/pdf/S2666-979X(22)00062-3.pdf ). In gorillas, there is strong evidence for monophyly of each recognized subspecies, and these groupings correspond to discrete clusters in PC-space (link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12862-023-02195-x ). But as I showed in the video, you *do not* find these patterns using the same methods on humans. PCA reveals continuous structure with no breaks, and human "races" are not monophyletic. So, yes, there are subspecies in other organisms and you can identify them using the exact methods I go over in the video. There just aren't any in humans.
@DGRIFF
@DGRIFF Год назад
I don't have any questions. This is perfectly clear and the ultimate truth. Thank you for taking your time to share this with the world!
@ESCAGEDOWOODWORKING
@ESCAGEDOWOODWORKING 7 месяцев назад
The reason this has 4,400 views instead of 4.5 Million is because people share an A-hole quality across populations, some more than others lol. Thank you for this exceptional presentation.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@daniele.3361 They're both the same.
@philippedegel7578
@philippedegel7578 6 месяцев назад
Seems to be all about culture
@kudjoeadkins-battle2502
@kudjoeadkins-battle2502 2 месяца назад
How does culture develop?
@Sergio1Rodrigues
@Sergio1Rodrigues Месяц назад
great video
@panqueque445
@panqueque445 4 месяца назад
So many racists coping in the comments. How does it feel to be the last vanguard of a dying, wrong, and old idea?
@Testimony_Of_JTF
@Testimony_Of_JTF 4 месяца назад
Racialism is on the rise me think
@panqueque445
@panqueque445 4 месяца назад
@@Testimony_Of_JTF From what I've seen, not really. It's just that the racists are getting more bold and their tantrums more and more visible.
@Testimony_Of_JTF
@Testimony_Of_JTF 4 месяца назад
@@panqueque445 In the youth (especially young white males) it is on the rise, especially online. At least race realism is an overwhelming consensus now, the bell curve wins out in the end.
@panqueque445
@panqueque445 4 месяца назад
@@Testimony_Of_JTF It's a free country, you're allowed to be wrong. If you wanna buy into the racist cope-aganda, go right ahead.
@Testimony_Of_JTF
@Testimony_Of_JTF 4 месяца назад
@@panqueque445 The thesis defended in this video is really, really bad. It doesn't even get into the more extreme examples of HBD like pygmies and aboriginals wich are really distinct.
@Anaximander9
@Anaximander9 2 месяца назад
Hancock has convinced me that there aren't any actual biological races. Runners of East African ancestry don't dominate long distance running and sprinters of West African ancestry don't dominate short distance races, etc. I'm just imaginating this when I watch sports. I'm glad he cleared that up for me.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
I think you're confused. Sprinters of Europeans ancestry dominate short distance races. African Americans and Caribbeans, have on average 20% and 16% European ancestry respectively. However, going off of your conclusion, are you really saying that since hockey is dominated by people of European descent, that Europeans carry some kind of "hockey gene"?
@shafsteryellow
@shafsteryellow 2 месяца назад
​@@NanakiRowan😂😂
@jeremiahjackson5792
@jeremiahjackson5792 2 месяца назад
@@NanakiRowan not true lol, there wasn't a single non-african descended person who made the world final in the 100m for 40 years straight
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
@@jeremiahjackson5792 I'm sorry, but you're wrong, as Patrick Johnson (Irish and Australian Aborigine) ran a sub-10 second 100 meter in 2003, followed by Frenchman, Christophe Lemaitre in 2010, and Su Bingtian of China. There are more. I'm not sure who lied to you.
@Testimony_Of_JTF
@Testimony_Of_JTF Месяц назад
​@@NanakiRowanWhy are East Africans so overrepresented in long races then? Their countries are very poor so they lack infrastructure and despite that are amazing runners. Hockey isn't comparable to a race, racing is a much simpler sport. Just having better slow twitch muscles on the leg should do it, no? A few generations of endurance hunting being very prevalent and you should select for runners.
@kylealexander593
@kylealexander593 4 месяца назад
Cro magnon man. Currently known as homo sapien sapien. Has the same DNA as all modern day Europeans. Note. Cro magnon dna is 45,000 years old lol.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 4 месяца назад
?
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 4 месяца назад
@@kylealexander593 Source?
@azpazy
@azpazy 2 месяца назад
you have about 1-4% dna from cro-magnon the rest is from anatolian farmers and steppe nomads
@kylealexander593
@kylealexander593 2 месяца назад
@@azpazy I thought I had 1-4% neanderthal too. I'm still open minded. But I read the study on a 28,000 year old Cro magnon (paglicci 23) found in Italy. This guy had no neanderthal admixture. Then the study goes on to basically claim the mtdna is so different it would be impossible to interbreed. I've had someone tell me the neanderthal came from my ydna. So I'm still open minded. Wouldn't bother me at all to have neanderthal admixture. I always assumed I did. Until I read the report on the (paglicci 23) Cro magnon. Does that make since to you? Lol it all gets confusing. But the authors of the study on (paglicci 23) sound all but certain that through the mtdna it would be impossible. Maybe I'm missing something. Would love anyone's opinion on the matter. The fossil again is (paglicci 23) 28,000 years old discovered in southern Italy
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
@@kylealexander593 You forgot to answer me a month ago....
@bobnielsen7661
@bobnielsen7661 7 месяцев назад
So dishonestly framed. The fact that Africa is so diverse is irrelevant when it is so far removed genetically from other population groups. It's funny that you didn't actually refute the supposedly amateurish pca charts you showed initially. You can't. Those genetic clusters are real, and you can spew Lewontin's fallacy until you are blue in the face, but it won't change this reality.
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen 7 месяцев назад
I don't think you understand the difference between continuous and discrete data structures, and I did not call PCAs "amateurish". If you'd like to critique the data I presented, it'd help to actually refer to my critique or, at the very least, demonstrate you understood it.
@bobnielsen7661
@bobnielsen7661 7 месяцев назад
I do stats for a living. I know the difference. They don't have to be perfectly discrete to be valid. Explain why genetic clusters which map onto self-reported race is are not valid scientific categories? Why, just because there are edge cases? That doesn't invalidate the categories.@@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen 7 месяцев назад
Oh you do stats for a living, cool. So go to 9:51 and tell me where these "genetic clusters" are. What stats would you use to discretize this data? When you're finished with that, hop over to 10:27 and tell me that there exists anything remotely resembling "genetic clusters". The gray dots cover the entire PCA structure and emerge from an enormous biobank of samples. Neither of these are "edge cases" - they are the representatives of human genetic diversity. No amount of squinting can make that data discrete.
@bobnielsen7661
@bobnielsen7661 7 месяцев назад
@@talkpopgen You can't discretize that data because it is based on geographic distance, not race. You can't go across the globe and test all people in all regions, regardless of race, and then be surprised that there is overlap rather than discrete clusters. This is because there are many groups that are mixes between what are commonly understood to be races. For example, Latinos are a mix between indigenous Americans and Europeans, and Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews are a mix between Middle Easterners (not necessarily saying they are one race) and Europeans. For race to be a valid scientific category, it is not necessary for there to be a lack of overlap. I have no idea where this argument comes from. I hate to use the colours analogy, but it is useful here. If you mix 2 colours to various degrees to make different shades fof a new colour that form a spectrum, this does not negate the existence of the individual colours or their scientific validity as categories. The same is true of race. While these categories are technically socially constructed, so are many scientifically valid categories, and the constructed categories make sense and map onto biological reality. The exception doesn't prove the rule. As for 10:27, what a ridiculous argument🤣The same concept as explained above applies, New York is incredibly diverse and filled with mixed individuals, and there is also variation within races of course, The claim for the validity of the category of race is not that every single person can be neatly boxed into a discrete genetic cluster that represents their race, but that, on average, genetic clusters exist that map onto people's self-reported race. If they are mixed then they are mixed. It is nto about whether the individuals in that specific sample are edge cases or not. The problem is that you are cherry-picking graphs that appear to show some sort of continuity. Firstly, even if this is true, it doesn't negate the validity of racial categorization for the reasons explained above. Secondly, you have ignored well-known and widely-used pcas like the famous pca of West-Eurasians that clearly show Europeans, Jews, and then different Middle Eastern groups in clusters (wholly distinct or otherwise, it doesn't matter) that match self-reported race and commonly used racial categories. As I said, forget Africans as they are vastly different from the rest of humanity. One could split them into sub-races or races of their own. One could see this as arbitrary and argue that it invalidates more commonly-used categories, but as long as their is a valid purpose and the categories broadly exist ,this is not the case. You can quibble about the word race and argue that it must be unchanging and solid, but at the end of the day you cannot deny the validity of categorizing human populations into groups that reflect their ancestry and have various observable characteristics in reality. Call it whatever you want, but it's there, people know it, and people will use it like they always have.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 7 месяцев назад
After reading your thread, it is apparent that you didn't make any actual arguments against the methodology ad data used in the video to come to their conclusions. You essentially said "I don't like this, so it's wrong!".
@eliasc2864
@eliasc2864 4 месяца назад
How can the african/european iq gap be all environmental when we have african Americans as an example. Their IQ is 10 to 15 points higher than africans as they have a much higher standard of living. Now if there is a 15 point gap between whites and blacks in the US, are you contending the differences in standards of living between white americans and blacks is close to the difference between black Americans and africans?
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 4 месяца назад
"Their IQ is 10 to 15 points higher than africans as they have a much higher standard of living. " What is your source for that claim? "Now if there is a 15 point gap between whites and blacks in the US" There isn't. " are you contending the differences in standards of living between white americans and blacks is close to the difference between black Americans and africans?" The standard of living of black Americans is lower than that of white Americans, which contributes to the gap.
@eliasc2864
@eliasc2864 4 месяца назад
​@@NanakiRowanI am using rhe lowest scores from africa as to ge charitable. They come from Richard Lynn. There is other data that places it more around 80. There is a 15-10 point gap, depending on wbos data you use. I have not seen a single serious researcher say otherwise.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 4 месяца назад
@@eliasc2864 Are you aware of Lynn's methodology in presenting those scores? If not, I can educate you. In getting the IQ of natives of Equatorial Guinea, he tested 48 developmentally-disabled 10-year-olds living in Spain. To get the IQ of Ethiopians, he tested the IQ of illiterate Beta Israeli children who had just emigrated from a rural area in Ethiopia to an urban area in Israel. To get the IQ of Nigerians, he picked the lowest scores in an IQ study of seven Nigerian and Leonese children while ignoring several studies showing Nigerians having an average IQ far above 69. To get the IQ of South Africans, he used a study testing 17 illiterate black South African children. To get the IQ of Somalians, he tested poor Somali refugees living in slums in Kenya and Ethiopia. In addition to these extremely questionable samples, there were many downward errors in translating test scores to IQs, in countries where no IQ research could be found Lynn would simply base their average IQ on neighboring countries, ignoring any social or economic differences (which might as well be tantamount to a violation of any academic integrity), and it seems very possible that he and his partner Vanhanen deliberately ignored tests giving Africans IQs above 75 and even discarded some relevant information from the studies they chose. His fraudulent work prompted the European Human Behavior and Evolution Association to issue a formal statement about his research. They concluded that "any conclusions drawn from analyses which use these data are therefore unsound, and no reliable evolutionary work should be using these data." So if I were you and you want to have an honest discussion, I'd leave any of Lynn's rubbish out of it. The Flynn Effect has shown that the black-white gap hasn't been 15 (or 10) points since 1972.
@poody771
@poody771 4 месяца назад
​@@eliasc2864Why from Lynn? He isn't a scientist.
@eliasc2864
@eliasc2864 4 месяца назад
@poody771 you are clearly too stupid to see why it is charitable to pick Lynn's data in this case. Lynn has the lowest scores, leaving the most room for the environment. If i choose a higher score, my case becomes stronger as the distance between africans and black americans is smaller, indicating a lower genetic ceiling. I recommend you think about your nitpicks before writing then.
@DeElSendero
@DeElSendero 10 месяцев назад
An excellent video and an important one as it provides a vigorous and cogent attack on "race reality" which is used to support the notions of bio-determinism and the like. These insidious ideas are easy to latch on to for some, and so find quick ways to get embedded in society. This video should be shared as widely as possible it is that important.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@daniele.3361 It's literally the same thing.
@justcallmekai1554
@justcallmekai1554 4 месяца назад
​@daniele.3361 Race Realism is merely a justification for Racism pretty much everytime.
@Major_Fleam
@Major_Fleam 10 месяцев назад
This video seems to focus on debunking discrete races. But can it not be true that there is genetic clustering tied to geogrpahic location whilst also showing large ovelap between members of groups Ie .more variation within groups than between them but never the less some grouping which we may refer to as race?
@visorij3374
@visorij3374 5 месяцев назад
That would be called a “ecotype” which exist within other animals
@Major_Fleam
@Major_Fleam 5 месяцев назад
@visorij3374 People also ask What is the meaning of ecotype?  An ecotype is a population (or subspecies or race) that is adapted to local environmental conditions - ok, so that's another name for race? Which I think means you are saying that there are objevtive races we can classify humans into?
@WilliamKillick-zn7km
@WilliamKillick-zn7km 3 месяца назад
He's trying hard, bless him!
@MossyMozart
@MossyMozart 9 месяцев назад
The "National Geographic" has put out a very interesting and info-packed issue about this same topic. It's called 'The Race Issue' and can be found on their website. One of the things they mention is the blunt statement that Africa is the most diverse continent on the planet.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@daniele.3361 Africa does in fact, have more human genetic diversity than the rest of the continents combined. This was established over a decade ago.
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan So, there is a difference then?
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@Faus4us_Official I don't know what you mean. Can you clarify?
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan Go to the links provided in the other comments if they haven't been deleted already.
@segundorespaldo7892
@segundorespaldo7892 Год назад
I can only thank you for this, with this video I can totally throw away all the race realist bullshit propaganda crap that has accumulated in my brain.
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@daniele.3361 No one asks how we are able to detect 'noticeable differences based on DNA alone', have they? If we were all the same there would be no variation. Something smells like BS. People lose their honorary titles and jobs for posting studies to the contrary of his evidence. Nobel Laureate James Watson is such a man. You know, the guy who helped discover the double helix structure of DNA.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@Faus4us_Official No one said all individuals are the same, my angry illiterate friend.
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan Then what is this race thing?
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan Go to the links provided in the other comments if they weren't deleted already.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@Faus4us_Official Again, no one said all individuals are the same. Reading comprehension is paramount to understanding the topics of discussion here.
@kylealexander593
@kylealexander593 4 месяца назад
European/neanderthal= Modern Europeans. Asian/neanderthal/denisovan= modern Asians. Sub saharan Africans/ghost DNA= modern sub saharan Africans
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
No. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbreeding_between_archaic_and_modern_humans
@kylealexander593
@kylealexander593 2 месяца назад
@@NanakiRowan Sure it does little fella.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
@@kylealexander593 What are you going to do? Bombard me with another study that directly refutes your unscientific claims? lol
@kylealexander593
@kylealexander593 2 месяца назад
@@NanakiRowan are you one of those people that abandoned your people to come live in a white country now you feel bad lol.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 2 месяца назад
@@kylealexander593 Hello. There is no such thing as a "white country", and your claims are still scientifically false lol
@lexxon11
@lexxon11 11 месяцев назад
Thank you p.s thanks for including sources
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 7 месяцев назад
Subscribed. Always a fan of evolutionary biologists demolishing racists and their fallacious arguments.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@daniele.3361 The term "race realism" is an oxymoron (as well as a sanitized name for "Scientific racism"). Ironically, 23andMe (as well as the other commercial DNA companies) has disclaimers stating that they can not determine a person's race, and all of their results are simply estimates. This is capitalized by the fact that one's results change as their reference panel is updated. You could be 1% Asian today, and that changes to 1% African tomorrow.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@Henryfordisright .....are you Daniel also?
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@Henryfordisright Then you didn't try to make an argument. Get off my post and leave me alone.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@Henryfordisright "Did you know you can't take a bone marrow transfer outside your race? It'll kill you" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Thanks for the laugh, but this is your last warning. Get off my post and stop harassing me.
@isg4
@isg4 5 месяцев назад
​​@@NanakiRowan lmao they deleted the comments
@L.A.Nilsson
@L.A.Nilsson Год назад
Thank you so much for making this video. You're doing so much good for humanity with this.
@andrewmagdy977
@andrewmagdy977 Год назад
Thanks to this video, I also found something interesting many people that have asian and european background (half european-half asian) many people could identify them as whites or asians or (hapa) and if this proves anything it proves that the race is a subjective point of view, Any person you can consider him as white but another person can consider him another thing
@ProtoIndoEuropean88
@ProtoIndoEuropean88 10 месяцев назад
It totally isn't subjective at all. The tendencies are always there.
@SmokeyKeitaTEACH
@SmokeyKeitaTEACH Месяц назад
Thank you
@andycampbell8622
@andycampbell8622 5 месяцев назад
Wait until they find out phenotype can change. By their metrics I’d have changed race several times in my life because “you can just see it with your eyes” 😅
@leemyers3925
@leemyers3925 11 месяцев назад
skipping to the end, yeah I can take your dna and tell what race you are. You don't have to lie to fight racism. In fact, lying only hurts your cause.
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen 11 месяцев назад
You'd do better to not skip to the end, watch the whole video, and then you wouldn't make dumb and irrelevant comments based on things I didn't say.
@leemyers3925
@leemyers3925 11 месяцев назад
You say there is no biological basis for race. Biology proves you wrong. You are a liar. The end@@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen 11 месяцев назад
You're an idiot. Either make an argument or get off my channel, troll.
@MossyMozart
@MossyMozart 9 месяцев назад
"What exactly is race?" Dr. Samuel Morton's research was used by the defenders of slavery in the United States, and now Morton is known as the father of scientific racism. Yet, we now know that there is NO SCIENTIFIC TEST that can determine race. It is a social construct used by those in power to dehumanize others, to instill a bias of "less than" because of the color of someone's skin, for the purpose of gaining real or perceived power. Historically, genetics has persistently been used to support or validate racist world views." [my emphasis] The National Geographic Magazine: The Race Issue Study Guide - "Skin Deep", by Elizabeth Kolbert, April 2018
@blackhawk_Enochserpent
@blackhawk_Enochserpent 8 месяцев назад
you better not skip because most video is shit.@@talkpopgen
@Lili_Chen2005
@Lili_Chen2005 3 месяца назад
Damn, this goes hard.
@Metternich_Enjoyer
@Metternich_Enjoyer 6 месяцев назад
I fr*ggin luv soyence!!
@somerandommen
@somerandommen 6 месяцев назад
Soyteens when someone with an IQ over 40 ends up in their path:
@somerandommen
@somerandommen 6 месяцев назад
@daniele.3361 No it's not, seethe little man. Human "races" don't exist. They don't share a genetic homogeneity. Ethnic groups do.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@Henryfordisright Are you actively trying to get banned from this channel? If so, I can expedite your cancellation.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@Henryfordisright Do you want my help or not, troll?
@Heyokasireniei468sxso
@Heyokasireniei468sxso Год назад
Good video
@aussiejinjo
@aussiejinjo 10 месяцев назад
it's a trash video
@JuvenileFish8
@JuvenileFish8 7 месяцев назад
Ok maybe we should rephrase the title: race isn’t that deep.
@aoukoa607
@aoukoa607 5 месяцев назад
Biological race is literally not real
@Testimony_Of_JTF
@Testimony_Of_JTF Месяц назад
The exchange I had here is just frustrating. I raised two different objections, proving them both, against Lewotin's argument against the existance of human races and got no actual refutation of them. Just repeating a point doesn't make you right. Neither does simply ignoring what others write.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan Месяц назад
"Just repeating a point doesn't make you right." Mate, you make a new post on this video every two weeks, making the same arguments that were refuted the very first time you posted. You need to take your own advice. No matter how many times you continue to post on this video, repeating your refuted arguments will not make you right the next time you post them. I've never seen anyone as desperate as you.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan Месяц назад
I should also add, you coming back here to make new posts every 2 weeks using the same refuted arguments, is an indication that you are trying to convince *yourself* that your arguments aren't worthless. See you again on June 28th.
@Testimony_Of_JTF
@Testimony_Of_JTF Месяц назад
@@NanakiRowan I made two arguments against Lewotin's fallacy: 1. What he said applies to other species (I provided several examples of this). 2. Lewotin missed the distinction between *quantitative* and *qualitative* genetic differences. Neither you nor poody made *any* attempt at refuting these points. Poody just *dismissed* the argument and ran in circles. You're both dishonest.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan Месяц назад
@@Testimony_Of_JTF Have you convinced yourself that you're right yet? Or are you going to make another post in 2 weeks like you have been for the past 3 months?
@Testimony_Of_JTF
@Testimony_Of_JTF Месяц назад
@@NanakiRowan 1. Yes 2. You have dedicated your online existance to deboonking racists. Your life is extremely sad.
@pikespeak361
@pikespeak361 4 месяца назад
Laughable drivel XD
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 4 месяца назад
Nice argument. Did you not get humiliated enough on Gutsick Gibbon's channel? lol
@khughes0402
@khughes0402 10 месяцев назад
This is an outstanding video at so many levels and I love the way you provide factual backup to every question posed. I can't think of a single category of people who would not benefit from delving into what you have presented here. Of course the no-facts, no-truth crowd will pretend your fully supported conclusions simply don't exist.
@darma6538
@darma6538 6 месяцев назад
to start this off I will simply state the facts about race then go on deconstructing the main arguments made in this video 1. Human can be grouped and differentiated from based on having ancestry from distinct ancient ancestral groups, and it is about as easy if not easier to model someone's ancestry with the proper knowledge and skill, using programs like ADMIXTURE, Admixtools and etc 2. while popular concepts of races might be inaccurate at times, the point still stands, and with the nuance and knowledge it's very easy to categorize populations into ancestral groups 3. unmixed modern humans are very different to individuals from other races (assuming proper definition of race given), the biggest average genetic difference between populations is between Karitiana native Americans and Khoisan pygmies, sitting at around 35.5% FST distance, to put that into perspective that's bigger than the difference between any recognized canine species, and between recognized chimpanzee species (ranging from 4% to 29% for both), the Khoisan FST distance to Norwegians and Han Chinese sits at 23.6% and 26% respectively (however Khoisan are a very distinct African population and they're very distant to everyone including other Africans, at around 11.3% and 12% FST distance to Mbuti pygmies and Yoruba specifically), east Asians are also distant to Europeans at 11.2% fst distance between Japanese Norwegians (note: data is from the David Reich lab, and fst was calculated using Admixtools which is a commonly used academic program) and as for the arguments made in this video 1.the figure shown doesn't show the most recent common ancestor, that's literally impossible to find,what you actually showed shared mtdna haplogroup lineagew, which is just an unbroken sexed lineage, having for example the maternal haplogroup U5 just means that a woman who which was labeled as U5, had female descendants who also had female descendants that delivered to to you, it does NOT necessarily prove that you're more related to other people carrying U5, you could be 99% Khoisan and have haplogroup I1 if your great great- grandmother married a Boer man carrying I1, that doesn't make you more related to Europeans than other Khoisan phylogeny on itself isn't very or at all useful in determining how similar organisms are genetically in the large scale, and no serious or informed person would claim otherwise the fact that a geneticist gets something so basic as lineages not proving overall genetic similarity wrong (likely intentionally) shows how dishonest and biased this whole video is also, grouping people according to regions instead of ethnicity is a terrible idea, as I've shown even the purest Africans (note: as in, belonging to in Africa populations and not just being geographically situated in Africa) are very distant to each other because a lot of them are bottlenecked and insulated, continents contain very different ethnicities and grouping genetic populations according regions makes no sense, both Arabs and Han Chinese live in Asia, and both Berbers (Berbers are around 40% neolithic and bronze age European, and the rest being iberomaurasian which is 60% west Eurasian and 40% ancestral north Africa which is a seperate human lineage altogether, with minor input from levantines through Carthage and sub Saharans like Yoruba) and Mbuti live in Africa 3. (1) both 2 points are correct, as proven with FST (2) that graph makes 0 sense, for starters, there are more than 3 main human populations, in archaeogenetics ancient have been braodly grouped into in-African populations, Eurasians, which includes west Eurasians (like Loschbour and Dzudzuana), East Eurasians (like Tianyuan and Onge) Basal Eurasians (ghost early eurasian population, unadmixed with neanderthals) and ancestral north african (distinct population group whos trace was found in Iberomaurasians) while east asians, generally seem to be mostly pure east eurasian (like Han Chinese, and Onge) there are traces of west eurasian admixture, which was delivered through ancient north eurasian cultures, and europeans/eurasians seem to be much more mixed (relatively) with, and having a little bit of all the 3 main eurasian population, and limited and variable admixture with ANA and sub Saharans, no modern sub Saharan seems to lack traces of Eurasian/ANA admixture, but it is a trace amount, in most populations (this information will be useful later) (3) the bigger problem is however is putting the Europeans and asians entirely inside the african circle, and at the same time inflating the african circle? eurasians sharing ancestry with africans that goes back to 100-40K years ago does NOT mean eurasians are the same as africans at all, they've been separated long enough for considerable drift to happen, and it did happen but the illustration only seems to account for african drift for some reason? out if africa posits all human populations originated in africa, for drift to happen in Africa while they were mostly seperated from eurasian populations, drift must also happen in eurasian groups while they are seperated, saying that humans all humans are africans because everyone shares ancient ancestry with them is equivalent to saying humans evolved from monkeys becauee we had a shared ancestor modern africans and eurasians are not only extremly drifted from the shared ancestral group we had, most populations went through bottlenecks that caused even more genetic difference, up to maybe the chalcolithic age (4) there is still considerable difference between human populations, and the majority of alleles being shared does not disprove because there is structure + epigenetics which give rise to both practical and genetic difference between populations, generally most animals have very similar genomes *overall* because we share so many basic genes for our shared molecular and physiologcial needs (5) for the billionth time, you cant divide human populations using geography whether its continents or distance, 2 populations which have never touched each other for thousands of years could live a few hundrend kilometers from each other and be seperated only through geography, there are distinct population groups and you can use that instead of dabbling with geographic distance or whatever to illustrate my point, the FST distance between Yoruba and Tunisian berbers (limited SSA profile) is 20%*, when it should be less than 10% according to your data * note: i didnt directly calculate distance using admix tools, i compared the distance on G25 between Berbers and Yoruba (result was 63%), then found a equivalent distance in 2 populations which i do have the FST distance for (Onge and Dinka) their FST distance is 23%, and G25 distance was 66% (7) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City The city's population in 2020 was 30.9% White (non-Hispanic), 28.7% Hispanic or Latino, 20.2% Black or African American (non-Hispanic), 15.6% Asian, and 0.2% Native American (non-Hispanic). A total of 3.4% of the non-Hispanic population identified with more than one race.[48] so basically, you took a sample of 33k individuals from a a super diverse and mixed part of the word, didnt label any of them according to heritage or genetic profile, and you wonder why there is no genetic clustering? hispanics alone are a mix of like 5 different ethnicities this just doesnt make sense there is no gradient between human populations that are not recently admixed, geneflow between sub saharans in africa is already very limited and it's insignificant to 0% outside of africa (8) so you spent like 3 minutes denying the significance of population groups and posted an admixture analysis figure that relies on that? youve only proved the existence of genetic diversity between humans that is enough to make accurate prediction about heritage, to prove a point that nobody argued against, that africa is diverse 5. Okay? even with a limited amount of time important evolutionary adapations can happen to populations because of evolutionary pressure? also anyone who think aboriginals and sub saharans are the same race because theyre both dark would be quite the scholar on that topic i think im done with this, ill avoid the rest of the video because im less informed on the topic but i dont imagine youd be any less biased talking about it, i really would like to see you answer any if my points, and not just delete my comment
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
Can you provide some sources?
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen 6 месяцев назад
Very long comment and no reason to move past the supposed "stated facts of race" you begin with. Point (1) I directly addressed in the video - the programs you cite all require a priori population designations because they are clustering algorithms and *do not deal with continuous data*. Point (2) is contradictory, it requires "nuance and knowledge" but is also "very easy" to group based on "ancestral populations". What's an ancestral population? All humans have a common ancestor in East Africa - is that the population you mean? Or do you mean the common one shared between Europeans and Asians in the Middle East? Or are you drawing the line after that? And how fine of a line? If race reflects ancestry, then race could be as large as a continent or as fine as a single family. Again, discretizing continuous data is always an arbitrary exercise. Point (3) is nonsensical. FST is not a "distance" like "genetic distance", it is a summary statistic of shared drift, which is measured in dozens of different ways using various data types. FST can reflect differences in allele frequencies, not fixed differences. When you compare FST estimates, you need to know *which* measure of FST is being employed as well as the type of genetic data (microsatellites, SNPs, protein-coding, etc.). Like in Point (1), FST, when measured at the population level, requires discretization - you must arbitrarily determine groups. I show a plot in this video of individual-based FST against geographic distance which showed there is no discrete patterns - differentiation is a continuous pattern explained by simple geographic distance. The "facts of race" you begin with are based on misconceptions about what these tools (like ADMIXTURE) actually do, what measures like FST represent, and a conflation of discrete and continuous data. I can only assume it doesn't get better from there.
@darma6538
@darma6538 6 месяцев назад
@@talkpopgen 1. i already talked about that, there is no continuous data, of course human populations constantly interact with each other and it's evident in their DNA but all the proof you had for continuous data is wrong is misleading you used a PCA (an already terrible start because PCAs aren't always reliable) of 33k NYC (an ethnic melting pot) city residents who's ethnic heritage wasn't even assigned, to prove that point which just doesn't work if you think it's circular to use modern reference population for these purposes, we can just use ancient reference populations, Africans, East Eurasians, West Eurasians, etc.., 2. it's easy if you know anything of what your doing, you can model any population as a mixture of anything but that doesn't mean your model doesn't suck, genetic calculators don't know proper refrences and the ancestral population depend on where you draw the line which is relative and depends on what you want to do modelling bronze age ancestry? use bronze age refrences, modelling neolithic ancestry? use neolithic refrences, etc race is relative and it refers to the genetic clusters of modern humans, which of course isn't based on geography, because many unrelated people live relatively close to each other Yoruba and Berbers live a few thousand miles away and their genetic profile is nothing like each other because they're completely different from each other, Yoruba is like 93% African and Berbers are like 93% Eurasian/ANA 3. for both humans and canines FST was measured according to SNPs, also I already handled your point about "continuous data" and geography
@darma6538
@darma6538 6 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan Admixtools and data from David Reich lab was used, rest of my points are just basic pop genetics/archaeogenetics
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@darma6538 Sorry i didn't specify. I meant sources of studies that specifically support what you said. Such as the fst between Pygmies and Indigenous Americans.
@SenBonZakura2007
@SenBonZakura2007 3 месяца назад
Too intense 🥵
@ben_alfred
@ben_alfred 3 месяца назад
debate me.
@poody771
@poody771 3 месяца назад
About what?
@poody771
@poody771 3 месяца назад
What exactly?
@ben_alfred
@ben_alfred 3 месяца назад
@@poody771 reality of race innit
@poody771
@poody771 3 месяца назад
@@ben_alfred What is there to debate about it? The facts are already established.
@poody771
@poody771 3 месяца назад
​@@ben_alfred?
@thefingthinkingemoji8053
@thefingthinkingemoji8053 9 месяцев назад
15:35 the fact that a GWAS can't explain all variance has no bearing on the impact of genes, it merely means that they can guarantee that amount. An example is how height was once poorly explained through GWAS but that percentage of confidence increased with time. It does not mean that 85% of variance has to be environmental. Let's have a reality check here: if such findings were accurate and true, it means that we know how to increase IQ through environmental means and we could apply that in every country on earth with a low IQ; we don't. Education, sanitation and health spans have vastly improved and yet IQ gaps between races remained consistent.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 7 месяцев назад
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
@Testimony_Of_JTF
@Testimony_Of_JTF 4 месяца назад
@@NanakiRowan Everyone knows about that
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 4 месяца назад
@@Testimony_Of_JTF Apparently not the OP.
@Testimony_Of_JTF
@Testimony_Of_JTF 4 месяца назад
@@NanakiRowan We know about the Flynn effect, it just doesn't matter to our point. The black-white gap remains about the same it was in the 90s (15 points). It's a sad reality but it is what it is.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 4 месяца назад
@@Testimony_Of_JTF Apparently the OP didn't know about the Flynn effect, and it absolutely does matter, as it shows that IQ scores have not remained unchanged as the OP claims. I'm sorry, but the black-white gap in America has not been 15 points since 1972. Please see the Flynn Effect.
@frankslade33
@frankslade33 Месяц назад
Are you saying if I offered you a million dollars to identify which of two people was referred to as "asian" and which "white" that you would not be able to do so, that it would be 50/50? Genuine question.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan Месяц назад
Why on Earth are you subscribed to Robert Sepehr's channel?
@Hyperborean-fz9vt
@Hyperborean-fz9vt Месяц назад
@@NanakiRowanYou sound like an immature child.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan Месяц назад
@@Hyperborean-fz9vt Account made a month ago, calling himself "hyperborean": all opinions invalid.
@Hyperborean-fz9vt
@Hyperborean-fz9vt Месяц назад
@@NanakiRowan Logical fallacy on your part, so you’ve lost the debate regardless.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan Месяц назад
@@Hyperborean-fz9vt No, it isn't a logical fallacy, and this was never a debate. Ask someone why he is subscribed to a trash channel is not a debate. If your username didn't out you as an immature child, your statements certainly do.
@yes363
@yes363 8 месяцев назад
Muh soyence
@sr.mental5876
@sr.mental5876 7 месяцев назад
The burning coal that scorched the sharty!
@danielplainview6527
@danielplainview6527 5 месяцев назад
Race is literally a biological construct. We can determine the race of an individual hy their genetics. Phenotypes alone infants the stark differences. We can *measure* the difference between races, and do so regularly. Culture is a sub component of race.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 5 месяцев назад
"We can determine the race of an individual hy their genetics. " No we cannot, but we can make estimates (and never with 100% accuracy). " Phenotypes alone infants the stark differences" I don't know what you mean by "infants", but there are no human phenotypes that are exclusive to one human group (race). "We can measure the difference between races, and do so regularly." Like what? "Culture is a sub component of race." Said no sociologist or geneticist ever.
@danielplainview6527
@danielplainview6527 5 месяцев назад
1. Typos on mobile (e.g. “infants” = indicates) 2. Skin color. Bone structure. Etc. - differences between races that we can see, and are obvious. 3. We measure it regularly. Power output. Bone density. Heat adaption. Torso length vs. limb length, and how the environment impacts the latter, IQ, etc. To say there are no genetic differences between races is to say there are no genetic differences between individual people (which is obviously not true), sexes, species, etc. The idea is postmodernist pseudoscience and junk science.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 5 месяцев назад
@@danielplainview6527 1. thank you for clarifying 2. People within "Races" differ by skin color and bone structure. Not much of an argument. 3. You'll need to clarify and specify further, since people within "races" differ by power output, bone density, etc. No, it does not follow for you to claim that stating that there are no genetic differences between races means there are no genetic differences between individuals.....unless of course, you are meaning to say every individual is a race unto themselves. This would be more apt, since every individual on the planet, save for identical twins, is genetically unique. Let's try this. Can you list a single gene that defines a certain race? Better yet, can you name a phenotype that defines a certain race?
@danielplainview6527
@danielplainview6527 5 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan - “Not much of…” and yet it is. Skin, bone, behavior, IQ, other physical feature that 99.9% of one race have than are distinct from 99.999% of another race. The two races might be 99.999% the same otherwise, but are still distinct in ways we can’t ignore. Here’s a test: is racism bad? 3. I did clarify even more. You left out the other distinct characteristics for some reason (see above). To say there are no differences between races (where there are greater genetic variations between groups) is to say that there are no differences between individuals (where there are fewer variations within a group, which we now ignore if we ignore racial differences, so we must also ignore the differences between individuals). A single phenotype would not define a race anymore than a single gene would. The race is distinct due to an overwhelming collection of genetic/phenotypic differences. Try this: Can you list a single gene that defines a certain species? Better yet, can you name a phenotype that defines a certain species?
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 5 месяцев назад
@@danielplainview6527 "Skin, bone, behavior, IQ, other physical feature that 99.9% of one race have than are distinct from 99.999% of another race. The two races might be 99.999% the same otherwise, but are still distinct in ways we can’t ignore. " You're confused. All human individuals share 99.9% of DNA. " (where there are greater genetic variations between groups)" There aren't. 94% of human genetic variation is found within groups. "A single phenotype would not define a race anymore than a single gene would. The race is distinct due to an overwhelming collection of genetic/phenotypic differences. " Ok, then name a collection of genes or phenotypes that define a certain race. I'll get to your questions after you provide answers to mine.
@Naman-tj5do
@Naman-tj5do 28 дней назад
Its so stupid that people still deny racial differences amoung different races . I am an Indian , and I hereby say , no matter how much an average India lifts in the gym , eats 500gm of protein per day .....that person would still be not even close to their European and African counterparts. Our Indian genetics makes an average Indian skinny fat , South asians generally dont have good muscle building genetics whereas Whites and Blacks have excellent muscle building genetics.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 28 дней назад
🤦‍♂
@poody771
@poody771 26 дней назад
I have never seen anyone deny average differences.
@Mayan_88694
@Mayan_88694 20 дней назад
@@Naman-tj5do get off the drugs
@Mayan_88694
@Mayan_88694 20 дней назад
@@Naman-tj5do it’s cute how nothing you said is even close to factual, humans share 99% of their DNA.
@Adsper2000
@Adsper2000 14 дней назад
Indians have a harder time muscle-building because half of you are vegetarians/vegans.
@ProtoIndoEuropean88
@ProtoIndoEuropean88 10 месяцев назад
Culture is a racial expression. Tendencies are very common within very specific human groups. Even a Russian born and raised in Japan can never act like a Japanese person born in Japan. He will always have psychological tendencies towards his own biological makeup, genetic structure, haplogroup, and DNA sequence which will lead him to Eastern European tendencies, and because he was born Russia, he has Eastern European tendencies of bodily structure. An Australian Aborigine is incredibly different from an European Scandinavian and in turn is very different from an Asian Korean. The great number of life forms shows groups which more or less resemble one another and show common physical characteristics. They have the same nature. We call such groups of life forms "species." The mankind living today forms a "species," for humans are fertile among each other. By the observation and comparison of a White, African or Mongolian it becomes immediately clear to us that it is not enough to only speak of the "human" species; rather, that for a more precise analysis a further subdivision must be made. This leads to the concept of human races. What you're saying in this video is a complete bias on the understanding of race. Biological elements which you speak of are related to the biology of humans as a whole. The same way I could say that all corvines are the same because they have the same biological structure apparently. The individual races can be distinguished by differences which they have in respect to the uniqueness of their hereditary, intellectual-psychological and physical features, tendencies and characteristics. Each race has certain characteristics and features which are unique to it. These RACIAL FEATURES are passed on to the offspring. Race is hence a group of life forms which distinguishes itself by the common possession of certain hereditary features. It always produces only its own kind. Or shorter: race is a characterized community of hereditary factors. As long as a race remains pure its hereditary essence is passed on unadulterated from one generation to the next. It is hence necessary for the racial consciousness of humans of the same race to be raised and the dangers correctly recognized which lead to a mixing, alteration, degeneration and hence annihilation of the races affected. The predominant race determines the folkish character and continues its influence in it as a hereditary factor. As in the Germanic peoples, the predominant Nordic race gives the German folk, too, the predisposition of its kind. The common heredity determines the physical and intellectual-psychological abilities of a race. "Race" as a practical concept relates not only to the specially formed and working life force within us, but beyond that also to the highest value, to the concept of value, to the world view. There are races which can create high cultures and those which can never elevate themselves on their own strength. There are races with heroic bearing and those without the courage to fight. Cultural accomplishments are exclusively the creation of higher races. The elevation of mankind continues or ceases with the preservation of the purity and of the strength of the culture-bearing races. The racial composition of a folk is unique. Its alteration always has a transformation of its nature and culture as a consequence. Each racial mixing always means a lowering of the worth of the higher race. Mankind displays strictly separated racial groups. Very roughly expressed, we distinguish between: White, Black and Yellow. Each of these groups in turn contains a number of subraces with certain common features. In this case one speaks of related races. Opposed to these stand the foreign races. Folks which in regard to their racial composition show the same elements as the German folk are of "related race" ("artverwandt"). To these belong the majority of European folks. Since the racial core of our racially related folks is often very diverse, one must look quantitatively at the racial elements for the foundation of a distinction. In the Germanic folks Nordic blood predominates in their racial composition. Their relationship to the German folk is hence referred to as being of the "same breed" ("stammesgleich"). Other folks which also show a small amount of Nordic blood, but which in their substance are not Nordic, are referred to as being of "foreign breed" ("stammesfremd"). The existing positive racial composition of the German folk rests on the fusion of related races and the large predominant portion of Nordic blood. Also skin color from environment and skin color from common ancestry are two different things lmao. Have you ever seen an african with a skin as pale as a korean? No. Also show me creative cultural creations of african tribes like castles, paintings, music like the European ones. I'm waiting ^^ Also at 20:27 this quote mixes things up and loses the understanding on what a race means lmao. I just refuted that in my comment.
@MossyMozart
@MossyMozart 9 месяцев назад
@aestheticcat9931- Give it up and bow to the inevitable. You will type your fingers off before you get the entire scientific world to recognize the specious nature of "races". Do you have Neanderthal DNA in your body? Do you consider them to be a different species ("race") than you? Maybe they are NOT a different species since they DID interbreed with Sapiens. Now, if they are not that different, how could current people of African-descent, Scandinavians, or Mongolians possibly be so different as to be a different species ("race")?
@blackhawk_Enochserpent
@blackhawk_Enochserpent 8 месяцев назад
the fact he didnt reply to that and he nitpicks comments is hilarious.
@ProtoIndoEuropean88
@ProtoIndoEuropean88 8 месяцев назад
@@TheRando69 What? Albinos have a genetic problem, not a racial difference, there are Asian, African and European Albinos, it does not change the fact that they belong to a specific race. You certainly haven't seen an african with skin as pale as a korean that didn't have a sort of a genetic problem or disease.
@ProtoIndoEuropean88
@ProtoIndoEuropean88 8 месяцев назад
@@blackhawk_Enochserpent These "anti racist" marxist pseudo science nitpickers are hilarious indeed. Their agenda is obvious, they cope with the fact that they can't accept that certain races have qualities that surpass those of other races (for instance, africans have a better predisposition for physical development, Nordic Germanic races have a better predisposition for creative development, Asians have a predisposition for an amazing logic development and therefore excel in Maths, replicating things and championing other's creations). For instance these fools claim that races aren't real because we humans share 99% of DNA, yet they forget the same is true bettween humans and apes, and we also have a very close genetic relationship with rats, sheep and even pigs, yet, we are not rats, nor sheep, nor apes, nor pigs.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 7 месяцев назад
"Even a Russian born and raised in Japan can never act like a Japanese person born in Japan." Source?
@Contribute_TakeCare_Learn_Play
@Contribute_TakeCare_Learn_Play 9 месяцев назад
When I look up uv maps as you have. There's quite a lot of them who have three different uv levels in west africa. Two of them closer together. Which could explain those different dots. Also. It seems clear that there's still biological differences. That is not just a social construct. I think it's understandable and fair that people try not repeat mistakes of the past. But I do think denying reality is not how to do it. I wouldn't entirely dismiss there being a social construct either. Just not in the same way. I'd argue reasonably that there are physical facts that we can observe if we are honest. And then in a sociology class they could fully acknowledge those facts while also bringing up different groups' ideas of for example one race. So we can see that perceptions of these physical undeniable facts can be greatly faulty or exaggerated. (For example is differences are probably because of education differences etc I'd definitely believe that) To me it's the most realistic and reasonable approach. It's also an approach to get a lot less backfire. Because denying reality might just increase the likelihood hood of normal people starting to listen to crazy extreme lunatics.
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen 9 месяцев назад
No one is saying there aren't biological differences across the human population. What we (biologists) are saying is that those differences don't consistently correspond to social races - that is the established scientific consensus. There is no objective way to define race that corresponds to anything biological; plus, people from different countries and cultures all have different perspectives on what constitutes a "race". We have studied the nature of human variation extensively, we have not "denied reality" but engaged it directly. These are our results. You're just rejecting them.
@Contribute_TakeCare_Learn_Play
@Contribute_TakeCare_Learn_Play 9 месяцев назад
@@talkpopgen I'll teach myself to check the research and then I guess I'll see if some conservatives are correct that ideology is being used to manipulate scientific outcomes which is possible I assume you know that.. so in that case such a serious claim to me. Definitely gets my attention. It's a shame I can't already check it myself. For now I'm just listening to claims. Richard Dawkins isn't crazy conservative. He did say the differences were very small. But he did so race has physical grounds. It's not just a social construct. If such a person says that. And he was adding nuance to it. So if such a person says so it's worth it to me (on top of ideological claims of other) to check it.. if we do what is better for humanity we have to find a way to do it without bending science.
@Contribute_TakeCare_Learn_Play
@Contribute_TakeCare_Learn_Play 6 месяцев назад
@@talkpopgen how do you explain that your map you used to 'proof your point' is different from other maps? That's not a good way to do science. Seriously I'm the person who would be fine singing kumbaya in a circle Seriously I'm not even joking. However. I also am the person who wants to know the truth before entering the circle to hold hands and sing songs. See, for example some people have a personality disorder or maybe they did an awful set of crimes or maybe even pedophilia. I'm for humane ways of handling these issues. Very progressive. I Believe free will to be deterministic and I think people even those who do awful things should be treated fairly and be helped. So if there is such a thing as race or markers of race or population groups with physical differences and one marker made a person 2% better or worse at something, that wouldn't change much if anything. But we would need to be honest about it. And this map you use seems very different from the maps I found on google and I searched without bias. I didn't search to proof you wrong..I googled uv maps earth. Most are different from yours. Additionally I think it was Max Weber that said that sociologists must make sure they remain their objectivity, being aware of their values and the effects it can have on research now this might not be part of the field of sociology but I'm sure it's influenced by it indirectly. And the value for value awareness and objectivity remains the same.
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@talkpopgen A spade is a spade. 'You' can call it race, wishy or washy. That doesn't change the evidence. The data says otherwise. I hope you know this will come to bite you in the rear in your career once we break away from this political BS. James Watson will be vindicated, and he better be forgiven with a return of full honors and his record remain untarnished. Who's next for the chopping block man? Come on! You, being a biologist, should feel 'something' to say the least at the treatment a well-respected and hard-working scientist received for being honest. A pioneer in that field to be precise. You're a scientist in name only, not practice.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@Faus4us_Official Try making an actual argument next time.
@naverno
@naverno 7 месяцев назад
Who are you gonna believe? Me or your lying eyes?
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
Look, a SINO. Scientist in name only.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
Instead of seething and presenting zero arguments against the facts presented here, why not make an argument instead of an ad hominem attack against Dr. Hancock?
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan Go to the links provided in the other comments. If those weren't deleted already.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@Faus4us_Official I don't see any links, but you can go ahead and try to make an argument now.
@poody771
@poody771 5 месяцев назад
What were the links? out of curiosity
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 5 месяцев назад
@@poody771 Simple, quick, and easy google searches anyone can do themselves pertaining the topic(s) discussed in the video.
@AmpliphyHD
@AmpliphyHD 3 месяца назад
NPC channel
@poody771
@poody771 3 месяца назад
Projection.
@AmpliphyHD
@AmpliphyHD 3 месяца назад
@@poody771 check the % of modern Europeans and the % of modern Egyptians related to King Tut
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 3 месяца назад
@@AmpliphyHD Hi there, what does King Tut have to do with this video?
@AmpliphyHD
@AmpliphyHD 3 месяца назад
@@NanakiRowan Hello, it's a simple fact that debunks the opinions this video is based on
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 3 месяца назад
@@AmpliphyHD Can you elaborate further into specifics please?
@AWildBard
@AWildBard Год назад
Great job. RU-vid, and social media in general, is a great place for good information; and unfortunately, also a cesspool of misinformation, dumb conspiracy theories, and reactionary propaganda.
@pseudopetrus
@pseudopetrus Год назад
I am white and can't drink milk, nor can my sister, but my two brother are ok with milk.
@andycampbell8622
@andycampbell8622 5 месяцев назад
Must be different races/species. But I’m sorry. I love dairy. I wish you dairy tolerance in the next life ✌🏼
@pseudopetrus
@pseudopetrus 5 месяцев назад
I guess I am strange. Both my wife and my two kids can drink milk. @@andycampbell8622
@thefingthinkingemoji8053
@thefingthinkingemoji8053 9 месяцев назад
Here are some counterpoints to your argument. You use the textbook argument of "more variation within than between" to imply that races are muddled. This isn't true. The variation argument is based on SNP variation. To understand the fallacy; look up studies where SELF REPORTED race is correlated with GENETIC CLUSTER. Self reported race matches genetic cluster at a 90%+ rate. People accurately identify what cluster they are all the time. Although 1 SNP might have more variation between than within, when we test for 100 SNPs, the likelyhood we can guess this person's race is nearly 100%, and consider that 100 SNPs is actually a small amount of genetic code. Something else to consider is the multiple sub-species of animals that differ genetically between them as much as human races do; human variation isn't irrelevant.
@dealvarado4783
@dealvarado4783 Год назад
The fact that personality and iq are pretty much genetic, and that we see plenty of difference in those areas between races, shows pretty clearly that race exists. However you wish to define it there are measurable differences between groups both physical and mental. For example, all doctors ask you your race because it has direct consequences on organ transplat. And there are many other medical examples. Edwards Dutton (an evolutionary psychologist) book "Making Sense of Race" does a nice job of explaining said differences.
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen Год назад
Everything you just said is false. Quantifying "personality" as a trait makes no sense. IQ tests are rarely used anymore; the proxy is "educational attainment", of which virtually every study has shown explains, at most, 10% of the variance observed, but it's not partitioned by race. The past 30 years of quantitative genetics has shown that socioeconomic status is a far better predictor than additive genetic variance - meaning that your genes explain very, very little of your personality or your intelligence. And no study has shown significant differences between "races". Race is also not considered in organ transplants - that's just flat-out wrong. The only thing that matters is blood group and size. And lastly, Edward Dutton is a crank. You realize I'm a biologist, right? Why would you come on here and just make up a bunch of stuff?
@dealvarado4783
@dealvarado4783 Год назад
@@talkpopgen Iq is pretty much genetic. There are plenty of twin studies that show than even being brought up in different socioeconomic levels iq remains the same. Also people from the same ethnic background are more likely to have matching blood groups and tissue types. And why do for example east asians have more trouble synthesizing alcohol or blacks have more probability of developing diabetes? Theres a clear genetic component. Adaptations or hybridization makes new genetic types. In tibet people with denisovan dna have genes that help them with breathing at high altitude. And melanesians and native australians have almost 5% denisovan dna. Also pygmies have up to 16% dna from a ghost archaic population. However you wish to define race pr ethnicity the physical and mental differences on average are crystal clear. We even have different size brains with different ethnic groups.
@talkpopgen
@talkpopgen Год назад
No, IQ is not genetic. Those twin studies you're referring to were debunked 20 years ago. There's no relationship between race and blood group or "tissue type" (what does that even mean?!). Your understanding of what constitutes "genetic" is astonishingly poor. Diabetes as a trait ports incredibly poorly across datasets, with genetic variance explaining next to nothing (see the "missing heritability" problem). You are just lying. There are no differences in brain size - that's a racist pseudoscience trope as old as time. There is no way to define race objectively, as I showed in this video, and you've provided zero evidence it exists other than literally making stuff up.
@ProtoIndoEuropean88
@ProtoIndoEuropean88 10 месяцев назад
@@talkpopgen "There's no relationship between race and blood group or "tissue type" (what does that even mean?!)." You're forgetting Haplotypes and DNA. You're also blatantly ignoring the obvious differences bettween Sub Saharan africans and Easter European Ukranians who are obviously incredibly different. Show me a single african community that created a culture like the beautiful European castles and art. Your pseudo biology disproves nothing.
@Stephen-so9oi
@Stephen-so9oi 10 месяцев назад
Baby is crying from the facts
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
History won't forget.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
Psychosis is a condition of the mind that results in difficulties determining what is real and what is not real. Symptoms may include delusions and hallucinations, among other features. Additional symptoms are incoherent speech and behavior that is inappropriate for a given situation.
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan Gaslighting, strawman arguments, red herring, etc. You are the definition of a manipulator. Projection works when the target is ignorant. Get some help please.
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 6 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan I know what psychosis is. I'm looking at a person suffering from it.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 6 месяцев назад
@@Faus4us_Official Psychosis is a condition of the mind that results in difficulties determining what is real and what is not real. Symptoms may include delusions and hallucinations, among other features. Additional symptoms are incoherent speech and behavior that is inappropriate for a given situation. You have displayed, and are continuing to do so, all the signs and symptoms of someone experiencing psychosis with each subsequent comment you make here.
@Faus4us_Official
@Faus4us_Official 5 месяцев назад
@@NanakiRowan If you truly cared, you would recommend help. You haven't offered assistance, nor have you recommended any resources for someone suffering from such a diagnosis. Manipulation isn't going to work here. What are your thoughts on transgender persons?
@danielpiesto532
@danielpiesto532 19 дней назад
European species is real though.
@danielpiesto532
@danielpiesto532 19 дней назад
At least their neanderthal part of dna
@poody771
@poody771 19 дней назад
Nope.
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 16 дней назад
🤦‍♂
@thefingthinkingemoji8053
@thefingthinkingemoji8053 9 месяцев назад
So, you conclude that Melanin varies in humans thanks to speciation. Meaning, humans have different hormonal balances depending on where they evolved, as melanin is accumulated through different hormonal balances. Look up on google scholar on studies done on the effects of melanin hormone on animal behavior; pigmentation isn't novelty. You present a strong case for speciation in humans but with the opposite intent by merely using the tone of your voice like an evangelist.
@MossyMozart
@MossyMozart 9 месяцев назад
@thefingthinkingemoji8053 - "When people speak about race, usually they seem to be referring to skin color and, at the same time, to something more than skin color. This is the legacy of people such as [Dr. Samuel] Morton, who developed the “science” of race to suit his own prejudices and got the actual science totally wrong. Science today tells us that the visible differences between peoples are accidents of history. They reflect how our ancestors dealt with sun exposure, and not much else." The National Geographic Magazine: The Race Issue - "There’s no scientific basis for race-it's a made-up label: It's been used to define and separate people for millennia. But the concept of race is not grounded in genetics." by Elizabeth Kolbert, March 12, 2018
@somerandommen
@somerandommen 6 месяцев назад
Genetic difference doesn't mean speciation???? Lil bro reached deep into his own rectum to find this stunning racist example of the Dunning-Kruger 💀 Neanderthals had different phenotypes depending on their location. Neanderthals in the Middle-East had brown eyes, brown hair, brown skin. Neanderthals in Iberia had red-hair, mid-tone skin and green eyes. Neanderthals from Northern Europe had brown/blue eyes, brown hair and pale skin. This would've been caused by genetic differences. Yet, we don't classify Neanderthals from different regions as different species. Homo Sapiens are no different. We might have different phenotypes between region, but they don't correlate to broader racial groups, they correlate to ethnic background.
@joaofreire4744
@joaofreire4744 Месяц назад
And yet it changes nothing of your own perception in the streets
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan Месяц назад
It has for me! It has helped me see people as the unique individuals that they are, rather than viewing them through the lens of an undeveloped toddler and generalizing. Science is wonderful.
@TechyBen
@TechyBen Год назад
While "privileged" myself, I've seen culture being the biggest draw and effect, but physical differences being the false equivalence people try to judge it by.
@Testimony_Of_JTF
@Testimony_Of_JTF 4 месяца назад
Race is still real
@NanakiRowan
@NanakiRowan 4 месяца назад
Flawless argument.
@poody771
@poody771 4 месяца назад
In a sociological sense yeah. But it hasn’t always been the case.
@Testimony_Of_JTF
@Testimony_Of_JTF 4 месяца назад
@@poody771In a biological sense. Aboriginals are not Europeans and even attempting to claim that should discredit you.
@Testimony_Of_JTF
@Testimony_Of_JTF 4 месяца назад
@@NanakiRowanI'm not wasting time with this. People who use the continuum fallacies without a single drop of irony are undeserving of attention.
@poody771
@poody771 4 месяца назад
@@Testimony_Of_JTF 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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