Why Buy A Mechanical Groupset in 2020? 

I may have missed this in your video, but to me, a key point for those of us who are cycling hobbyists is longevity. I just bought a bike with Ultegra Di2 and I LOVE it, but I have no illusions that it's going to last a long time. My assumption is that at some point, I will have to replace all or part of the groupset. I've worked in tech for years, and I know that buttons and electronics fail randomly. (I added on Shimano's climbing buttons, and the upshift button failed after a week.) When components fail, there's no repairing - you have to replace them. I have no idea how long to expect this group to last, but if it cost $2k and lasts 5 years, then I've basically been "renting" it for $400 a year. OTOH, my 30-year-old Campagnolo Record-equipped bike (which I upgraded several years ago to Ergopower shifting) needs new cables occasionally, and may eventually need new shift ratchets, but I fully expect it will outlive me.

105 Mechanical is all we need, but my Dura Ace mechanical looks better at the coffee shop 😎

For me it seems the elephant in the room with all "improvements" the bike industry has churned out over the last few years has been cost. I don't race, I enjoy riding, I cannot afford to replace damaged components quickly, furthermore I can maintain and install mechanical groupsets myself. I know I'm waffling but I've got bills to pay. Great video 👍

As I see the bicycle as the perfect human powered machine (for sport and commuting), I just don´t want batteries on it.

I went from Ultegra Di2. I thought that was amazing and it is. Now have mechanical Dura-ace. The shifting is absolutely amazing.

I've been on mechanical for 43 years. I raced cat 1-2-pro on Super Record FRICTION! I've been on Campy Chorus 11spd mechanical for four full seasons and I've adjusted my rear derailleur maybe 10 times over those four seasons, and twice recently because I swapped cables and had to fine tune. So in my world (of averaging 16,000km per year) I'd say mechanical adjustments are almost non-existent. And I don't have to worry about charging anything but my head unit (and lights). I do recall a team mate having Mavic Zap back in the day and fondly recall him bragging about how good it was... until we raced in a hilly, rainy race and he shorted out in 53X14 approaching a small ring climb. Buh-bye~ turned me of electronic shifting for life.

Mechanical and RIM brake!

It's quite therapeutic tuning a mechanical groupset......

Here’s the story of “The Stabbing Incident” Chris alluded to... last night out training my gear cable snapped. As it was on its way out, some of the wires from my gear cable worked their way through my rubber hood and stabbed me in the finger! Good news is I put a new cable in and my finger will heal with time 😝

i still use campagnolo 10 speed record on the same bianchi 928 lugged 2006 bike. never had to replace the gear cables nor brake. here is why when i come back from a ride. i always leave my chain on the small chain wheel and the 12 sprocket.so eliminating leaving them under tension. andthe shifts are always precise and quick. great content chris

Easy answer: Mechanicals work, every time. And when they don't they can be adjusted into compliance, right there on the road. Once the rider gets used to the feel of the shifters, it comes down to muscle memory. This is especially relevant to those of us who grew up with friction shifters. Like my high school band director used to say -- don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong. Bikes were designed to provide simple, reliable transportation. Non-reliability and complexity are antithetical to cycling.

Mechanical versus electronic regarding the tactile feel / shift style kind of reminds me of the manual gears versus automatic car. I drive a manual car (took me a while to find the right one last purchase as most are auto only now) as I simply like the feel and involvement of manually changing gears as I drive, the tactile nature is important to me. It’s not just the action of changing gears, but the mechanical feel as it slides between gears and the clutch re-engages. Deep, I know 😄

We are plugged in enough. Keep it as simple on the bike as possible. In over 25 years of cycling, I have never broken a cable from use. One defect cable head came off once. Keep all cables greased.

I just bought two new mechanical group sets. The Ultegra has all mysteries worked out. It is completely bulletproof and I can maintain it. Parts are available anywhere and have you seen that stupid battery pack placements in most bikes. All those wires....Not for me and I am a degreed Mechanical Engineer... Shifting yourself is part of the art like shifting a manual Porsche. Is PDK more efficient, yes but shifting connects you directly to the machine, bike or car and stirs the soul! It is not all about the money. It is about the overall experience.

I just discovered this channel and it's amazing, the quality of your content is 10/10, thanks!!!

Chris, congrats, what amazing review. Very rational analysis passing the relevant points of the groupsets.

Excellent fact packed video. I really like the conversational style and honesty that accompanies the presentation. I have Campagnolo SR electronic and Shimano Ultegra mechanical on my Colnagos. I prefer mechanical as a senior rider because of the engagement one feels with the gears whereas electronic seems remote. Thanks for posting .

Handy and informative. Cheers. I have an r7000 groupset and was wondering why on earth I'd spend 5 times the price for r8100

My mechanical Shimano Ultegra R8000 is doing me just FINE 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

Chris, as always, your tech reviews are level-headed and practical. Another benefit of mechanical is they will last forever, if maintained properly. Electronic components will eventually just die, due to corrosion of circuits, microswitches, etc. Cheers!

I think the question really is, WHERE can you buy a group set in 2020??

Mechanical has changed for the specs I build all my personal bikes with Campy mech Most often Chorus I do prefer 11 spd over 12 but sourcing parts is more difficult now in this covid 19 period As a racer Mech is more reliable and less margin for failure Price is a consideration but not an absolute determinant Really its a matter of functionality over price Btw mums on this Campy will be coming out with a gravel gruppo this fall Id hope they'd reinvent the 11 speed silver grp but no such luck I have campy chorus on my Tommasini tecno So smooth and quiet Super record eps on my pina f8 Really sweet but not as quiet as mech or smooth The price gap is huge too For the net gain of being lazy at a cost that could afford you an indoor trainer during the snow or fire smoke in my case That's my 2 bits Chris

I ride a Campanology triple racing cira1996 and find the performance amazing. As I am no longer racing, I see no reason to change it. The only caveat is the cost of vintage parts, guess many other believe that new is no necessarily better.

I'm surprised that the weight issue was not mentioned. My Dura Ace mechanical is silky smooth and weighs less than its electronic counterpart (the batteries are really heavy).

I'll Ride Mechanical for as long as possible for one simple reason. As a Crit Racer, I've never won a race because of Electric Shifting, but I sure as hell have lost a race due to it.

Hey. Great video, as always. I was very interested in this subject, as I had this exact decision to make when I was building my new bike last spring (Ultegra di2 or DA mechanical). After months of deliberations, I opted for the DA mechanical (and btw, I got rim brakes) for one main reason: aesthetics. I simply love the black glossy look and shapes. Besides, it works amazing. After putting ~6K km on the bike, I have no regrets.

I've got a 2004 Pinarello Dogma that started with 9 speed Record. Still have the same frame and fork but have upgraded things on it. In at 11 speed Chorus shifters, cassette and chain with an SRM power meter crank. I'm happy with my set up. I can't imagine spending so much on parts that work fine.

I rode my first electrical shifting bike this past weekend...It is cool dont get me wrong but I like the Feel of the shift of the mechanical. It makes me feel more personal with the bike...Crazy but true....Bye for now.

Great video Chris. I use Record 12 mechanical. I love it, shifting, feel, value etc, all excellent imo. I think the only reason I would favor EPS is the fact it trims the front derailleur automatically. That can be a bummer when you forget you trimmed down off the top already! Not sure if you guys have experienced that at all, I am definitely getting better the more I ride it. That been said you boys probably don't bother with the 39! Best, Paul

I like the idea of electronic groupsets but the cost and worry about failure out on the road stop me considering it. Maybe it’s a lot more reliable than I imagine but it’s still a lot of money against minor tinkering of the gears for mechanical. Good video Chris 👍

Great vid.... I think Campagnolo Chorus is the absolute sweetspot...its beautiful.....

Hello great vid, loving the content. I've ridden both mechanical and electronic from Shimano and Campag. Both are great but once the novelty wears off and and your mates are no longer impressed they're pretty much the same . Honestly its the same action to shift both electro and mech with the same result. If i was racing id want electronic for missed shift elimination. But, if you could trigger shifts using a thought control, integrated with a HUD design and built in mobile connectivity, satnav,music, radar and lets face it probably gaming, they might have a clear winner. Currently spending the majority of our gorgeous Home arrest /lockdown riding a frankenstein drop bar mechanical 29er on trail and roads since march last year and loving it . Hope you're all well and good wherever you are!

Great job quantifying the factors in the decision. Nicely done.

I like them both. If performance is the sole goal, electronic all the way. Electronic is also very low maintenance once it's set up. On the other hand, mechanical works very well and is basically foolproof if you know how to tighten a bolt. Also, there's a beautiful simplicity to the spring-driven, cable-actuated mechanisms on a mechanical groupset. You may care about those things, you may not.

Because I have too many bikes to worry about charging batteries ;) !

Great video Chris...I really enjoyed this...I am a weeknight/weekend warrior...for me it depends on cost - for now I will be staying with mechanical. Maybe one day I can move up to electronic.....keep up the great work - here in Canada I am envious of your weather...LOL

I like to be able to work on my bike, and I don’t think batteries and bicycles go together at all. I also prefer having precise control over when I shift and how hard, so mechanical is the way for me. I like the idea of pulling my bike out of the garage 20 years from now, pumping up the tires, and going riding.

One just needs to review what happened in the Tour. At least two times I saw top riders having issues with their electronic shifting. Alaphilippe had a problem with his front derailleur, had to swap bikes back and forth. Not saying he was going to win the stage, but maybe a consideration. Unfortunately can't compare to mechanical since all teams are electronic now. I'll take a well maintained mechanical set over electronic any day. Same can be said for calipers vs. disc on road bikes. Average tire changes in the Tour with disc wheels at least 5 seconds longer than rim brake wheels. Newer isn't always better, my 10 year old SRAM Force equipped road bike never has issues on group rides, but buddies with newer electronic groupsets seem to have the occasional hiccup. Heck, my 30 year old 105 components still perform flawlessly, the hubs spin forever and shifting still perfect.

the video looks amazing, the bokeh is just on point ? what camera and lense please ?

Great video Chris. I recently bought a new bike and I chose Ultegra mechanical group set, as I had so much problems on my older bike which has Ultegra Di2 group set. I had to change the electrical cable three times in the last two years. Batteries and I don’t get along very well.

Your camera autofocus is incredible I feel like I'm in your backyard

Objective and based on actual race experience. Thank you for the great content! P.s. Thank you for not doing the youtube thing of best groupset, this or that.

im 100% sure i can remedy any problem without looking for an electrical socket.😂

I have ridden Campag mechanical and nowadays EPS. I will not go back to mechanical groupsets. I shift exact every time and this is just a great feeling! Electric shifting was a WOW factor for my first time on electric groupset while disc brakes were not. I never had any issues with electric groupsets. .

Great video. Btw: what is the black bartape on your bike? It looks very nice.

Late to the party, but I ride a Specialized Tarmac with a Tiagra R4720 (hyd discs) groupset and it’s bloody good. Also ride a Ridley Noah 24T with rim brakes (105 R7000) and that groupset is all you need imho. Do prefer rim brakes over discs though. Kinda feel the marketing got to me 🙈🤣.

Got Dura Ace Mech cause I got a great deal and I love it but You are totally right about Campagnolo 12 speeds, more carbon parts, and legendary brand., will be next build!

Will never forgive Sram for abandoning Red mechanical just when it got decent...

Very informative and clearly presented. Thank you

I have just added a Di2 XT rear derailleur to my dirty Levo. Insanely slick...

I have had Di2 for 3 years now. Flawless. Never let me down, Works like a dream. Pricey yes I get that ...but as a cycling enthusiast I can save money elsewhere. I dont run a car. My bikes are my transport. I have mechanical Ultegra on my winter and commuting bikes. After Di2 its like going back to the dark ages, Yes the difference is that pronounced,It is such a joy to get back on my quick bike with Di2.Just sayin...

Great overview, but for me the worst fatal flaw I've had was a snapped cable in the hilly middle of nowhere. Went to Di2 after that and haven't had an issue in 6 years, but still enjoy mechanical on my other bike. I think for racing your point makes sense - a dead battery or electronics on the start line or after a crash would suck.

If I was Campagnolo I would make sure that you have reviewed the new Ekar gravel groupset and a video is ready to be published on release day :)

Why buy a mechanical groupset in 2020? Because some of us go on cross country rides, which don't lend themselves to constantly recharging batteries.

Great well considered review Chris, as usual. One comment, from the older generation frames and riders. Mechanical is still the best choice for aesthetics and dare I say performance / cost for those ‘retro projects’. I’m about to upgrade my lovely Tommasini from Campag 10 to 12 :)

I have a DI2 Dura-Ace on one of my road bikes because I was curious about electronic shifting. I like it well enough, but I run 105 11sp on another of my regularly used bikes, and when it comes time to upgrade it, I'll probably just go with a mechanical Ultegra set. I am planning on upgrading an older 10sp Dura Ace TT bike tho' to electronic shifting so I can shift without having to reach back for the bar end.

it's pretty simple because the new Campagnolo Ekar is awesome.

I love my Campagnolo mechanical groupset 🙌

Thanks a lot !!!

I learned to ride using Huret Luxe Touring derailleurs, so I learned about bad shifting early. My current main ride has SRAM Force 10-speed. My last botched shift was about 5 years ago. When high trim stops working, that means it's time to replace the cables. On the other hand, if someone offered me a new E-tap kit tomorrow, I'd have hard time saying no.

Great video discussing the teams decision for mechanical groupsets and very much agree with your points about field serviceability, "fatal flaws" and repair costs when something inevitably breaks. Can you elaborate on your comment @ 9:53 ? comparing the $2,562 (2209g) Ultegra Di2 groupset to the $2,294 (1973g) Dura-ace mechanical "why would you buy a mechanical groupset in the shimano world, well you wouldn't" After the rest of the video explaining why you might choose mechanical for various reasons, wouldn't it be better to compare the $1,624 (2272g) mechanical Ultegra groupset looking at a saving of $938? Or if you are wanting to dive into the carbon/titanium/drillium weight savings of Dura-ace, then perhaps a better comparison would be $2,294 (1973g) mechanical Dura-ace to $3,724 (1911g) Dura-ace Di2?

Those crispy clicks shifters DA 9000, instead of hingschhhhpff.

my CX bikes are on mechanical sram Force 1x and the even more controversial mechanical disc brakes. fleet maintenance and ease of triage, replacement and adjustment are my driving factors.

Internal cable routing would be a major fiddly area for amateur mechanics compared to electronic, I reckon. But at the same time, have you watched the pro build videos with Di2? Fitting them inside the integrated stem and headsets on these gorgeous new bikes looks like a nightmare!!

The difference between a vw golf with a manual gearbox or one of the fancy double clutch auto things. Sure the double clutch sounds cool and shifts pretty quick, but is it as satisfying as mastering the heel and toe techniques and making that manual hum? One requires more skill and mechanical empathy and is relatively cheap to repair, the other just shifts when required, but when it goes wrong...... which arm you gonna give up?

Lighter, cheaper, more reliable, less to go wrong, no need for recharging mechs. Not a bad option

Problem with mechanical groupset is that in 2020 we can basicly only find disc brake bike. Personnaly i think the mechanical shifter for disc bike are horrible. For rim brake bike i would be all in mechanical, so much cheaper and its very efficient.

I think electronic has a place in time trial and tri bikes. When you are on your hoods/bars because of a crap climb coming up....losing easy access to shifting is a PITA. The satellite shifter (which is enabled by electronic shifting) fixes that problem cleanly and simply.

Thanks for the alternative viewpoints re mechanical. as you say why? Buttons are everywhere, Nintendo/Xbox/Playstation etc is the training ground, cars have tiptronic style gear changing. gone are the days of car/truck mechanical sympathy and double shuffling the clutch to slip into non-syncro first gear (showing my age) we just rely on an automatic gearbox, press a button or tap a shift lever. Anyway I think bike mechanical gets a bad rap - once adjusted no real need for adjustment or battery charging until the cable starts to fail - typically at least about 6,000Km of riding. At the end of the day ride what makes you happy.Cheers

In the 2020 road cycling world championships in Imola , in the women's road race, after the last ascent in the low gears using the small chain ring, one of the riders couldn't shift up to the big ring after reaching the top of the ascent, so she had to ride the last few kilometers descent and flat to the finish line on the small ring. She was with a group ending in places four to eight. Because of the gear problems she couldn't follow this group, but she kept fighting and kept the chasers behind her and ended in eight place. With a mechanical groupset she probably could have been competing for a better place.

I see Chris likes super shallow depth of field in his videos.

Excellent explaining the differences and how they perform. Only spot of bother is saying mechanical is heavier than electronic. That is not true. It is sad SRAM won't be moving ahead with mechanical. I guess I'll be heading back to Shimano in a couple years.

i used mechanical for over 25 years in 2014 a DA9000 used it not a single problem then the DA9100 came out and i got it it never stopped giving me problems the bike was most of the time in the shop and the feixes that didn't fix it were expensive i was not a happy rider i was stressed and when riding i was thinking all the time if this is the gerar change that will fail so i got a mechanical DA9100 and never looked back i work with diagnistic tools in the marine and oil industry and the tools for electronic shimano groups is a toy the tecnology is not fully developed and when i shift with my mech DA9100 it feels really good i sometimes think why the hell i tried the electronic after all ......... i know , because of marketing hahahahaha i learned the lesson the hard and expensive way so from that point i really analyze and do my own research before i buy any bike parts only if i had searched online for di2 problems i didn't untill i had them and the amount of problems that it has is way over the few advantages it has if any.

I just don’t see people having problems with mechanical ultegra. Being a sprinter I can push big numbers for short periods so the extra durability of Ultegra is great. I won’t be winning any hill top finishes so lightweight Dura Ace is not a requirement. If you watch Hambini you will find that Shimano is the best engineering with Campy right up there with them, however there’s a reason why pro teams running SRAM are very few between and that’s because their engineering tolerances are very slack.

Will you do a review on the new Maxxis High Road SL?

WW2 Spitfires are still flying because they're basically 'mechanical' Whereas Vulcan bombers are not, they're from the 1960's, They're 'electronic' & just cannot be repaired.

My mechanical 105 and eTap shift as well as each other but mechanical really does have its fatal flaws and it's usually down to cables. At the moment my 105 won't shift into top gear and no adjustment seems to fix it. I've also had the cable fray in the shifter a couple of times.

It’s a con. The bike industry has to come up with new equipment then convince us all that we ‘need’ it because it is better. Then they can charge a huge mark up for a premium product. It’s not, it’s just different. Does it cost much more to manufacture? No. It’s all about profit margins. They could make it more affordable if they wanted to. Personally I will wait until the price drops, but with mechanical being so good I am in no rush. Mechanical is a little bit more fiddly but once you have it set up I find that the gear change is crisp and smooth. The only time you clunk a gear change is if you’re being particularly aggressive (maybe racing or hill climbing) if you think about how you are using your gears, selecting the correct gear before you make an effort it’s really not an issue. As you can guess I can not justify spending 1000s on my next bike. If you have that spare cash then good luck to you. It seems to be something that will always be a bit elitist and not for the everyday Joe, by which I mean you will generally only see it on high end bikes. It would be nice if it could filter down to more affordable bikes, then it would have more mass appeal and therefore sell more (which leads to it being produced in greater numbers and the economy of scale will bring the price down). Maybe I’m just dreaming in this regard.

To your brain, pressing a button isn't that much different to pulling a lever. I always choose to buy a new set of wheels.

I ride a Seven Axiom. To me it just seems wrong to put an electronic group set on it. Yes, I drive a car with a manual transmission. Sometimes it about the satisfaction of a well executed shift. Yes, Seven is making frames specifically with electronic group sets in mind. A lot of their bikes are built up with SRAM or Shimano group sets. Since Shimano has phased out its Ultegra and Dura Ace mechanical group sets, I see SEVEN making a lot of bikes set up for electronic group sets. But for me, I don't have part of my fingers on my left hand. SEVEN worked with me and came up with a down tube shifter on the left side. Campy still made one at the time. So they both made a customer for life out of me. Will Shimano work with me and my hand? I doubt it. SEVEN will custom make a frame that is optimized for mechanical group sets. I like my cablesvrouted outside the frame so that they are easier to work on. No problem. Mine has that. Is it aerodynamic? Probably not. I think that was part of the push towards electronic group sets. Cables don't work as well and are harder to maintain when they run through the frame. For that reason, if you want that clean aero look, maybe an electronic group set is the better choice, especially if you are spending thousands on aero wheels, stems, and a carbon aero frame.

I ride Di2 and mechanical (Sram Red). Under pressure with Sram, moving to the big chain ring is hit and miss. It works most the time, but its totally possible to bodge it and mash the change. It will not happen every change, but be prepared for it to happen when you dont expect it. Di2 never misses. Its a bit like driving a manual v automatic car. Rear mech changes are more than fine.

I'm happy with my new Ultegra R8000. KISS principal for me. It's still a long way from the downtube shifters I had back in the 80s

Di2 really improves Shimano mechanical. EPS to me is silly. Why? Because with Chorus you can change up to five gears instantly, more than you need, 3 I think is ideal. Only Campy gives you that option. So 105 is great, then if you want to upgrade buy Chorus.

A Shimano DuraAce mechanical groupset is -$2K less than Di2 though I would love to ditch the cables!

I moved to Di2 last year, and I don't think I'll go back.

I prefere rim. I just love to tinker. What do your all think about disk brakes? Will the team ever use them?

The rear shift cable on mechanical Shimano will fray and eventually break only after about 2000-3000 kms. Much longer if you don't live in a city with stop lights every 400m or if you don't down shift when slowing down.

I do not know if anyone else feels this way but in my opinion a bike with a battery is an ebike at least to the extent that it is no longer driven by just muscle but by a combination of muscle and electrical energy. Sure, the battery only provides a small amount of the energy required but it is still electrical energy and you have to keep charging the battery up to provide the power to change gears. A cable bike is always there and does not need stored power from an outside source. If you ride a cable bike to the top of a mountain it is pure human physical effort.

Mechanical shifts faster, plus electric have no real advantage on one by system. My Mtb is now one-by when I'm racing CX I run one-by's as well. I will say the auto trim on front mech with Di2 is a delight. I've recently gone back to mechanical on my road bike DA shifters and Ultegra rear clutch mech to run 105 -11-34 cassette, it was just too much cost to do full Ultegra Di2 as the 6770 levers are kinda unrefined on the underside. Anyway the mechanical is great but I miss the Di2 trim. I've ridden all three, my opinion is Campy has the best ergo and front trim is outstanding. My main turn off is thumb paddle can be hard to reach from drops if you don't run your hoods flat, plus lack inter-compatibility and excessive pricing is biggest limiter. SRAM shifts the fastest and most positive/intuitive but wears in the fastest. I'd had mores catastrophic failures and warranties with SRAM then any other brand. Shimano still king on cassettes and shift ramps and stuff and something like an Ultegra Di2 or 105 mechanical are just hard to beat on valve to performance return. BTW +1 for classic round drop bars.

Because it works, in 2020 and well as in 2030, 2040, 2050... Long after any electronic groupset will be in a landfill either because it failed of because you can't get parts. gen 1 Di2 is already unfixable... I have mechanical gears from the 80's, 90's, 2000's 2010's...

campag TOUR WIN :)

For a non-racing plodder like me, mechanical Ultegra is my realistic "grail" groupset.

Hi from Canada. Two issues in elec. vs. mech. groupsets that I haven,t seen discussed in any of the vids yet - fragility and longevity. I have witnessed complete failures in elec. groups from minor bumps or falls (3 incidents, 2 brands). This has not instilled much confidence for me. As for longevity, I can be pretty sure a mech. group will still be fully functional 20, even 30 years from now with simple upkeep. Electronics, especially in todays market tend to be short life, throw away items. In 10 years time you probably won,t be able to source simple maint. parts for today's groupsets. I ride Campy mechanical because I haven,t any clear benefit to switching.

Maybe since the prices of E shifters and components have barely dropped in 5 years so, there’s is that . I guess most folks have to wait 10 according to Sram and Shimano

Because it is 3-4-5 times cheaper than electronic groupset of same weight. Sram Rival AXS costs 1460 euros thats over 2000 euros shipped to my country with custom charges. For that amount of money I can buy like 4-5 mechanical groupsets.

was on ultegra mechanical and it shifted so nice and quickly. then i tried sram red. its night and day man. dont kid yourself that its not the fastest, quietest, self correcting system

It’s all about cost. In particular don’t underestimate the price of a DIY build, the sundry items make the amount skyrocket. The fatal flaw issue is a non starter in my 9 year Di2 experience. Perhaps a couple of times of run out of charge due to total neglect as the battery life is ridiculously good. Also the shifters,by not requiring the mechanical components are also far nicer in the hand vs their mechanical cousins.

mechanical is also great, but electronical just looks so much cleaner, especially Sram red

Can you jam a signal used for shifting? That could be a problem if someone did that.

Do you know which one of your guys was up in Brisbane racing the lifecycle classic out at lowood.