Is Modern Shimano 105 Better Than 10 Year Old Dura-Ace?

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Road bike gears have come a long way in the last decade, or have they? Ollie compares the mid-range Shimano 105 R7000 groupset with modern hydraulic disc brakes and 11-speed shifting, to the top tier Dura-Ace 7900 from 2008 to see the benefits of 'trickle-down' technology.
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26 сен 2020

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Комментарии : 1,4 тыс.

@Rover200Power 3 года назад

But the new 105 doesn't have "Dura-Ace" written on it, which means no one can see how amazing you are just by looking at your bike.

@Wildschwein_Jaeger 3 года назад

Go Campagnolo then. They brand all their components.

@1234beta1234 3 года назад

More like how amazing you were back in the day

@mxs4193 3 года назад

jokes aside, I still see 105 as a really impressive/professional level groupset. I always take a minute to check it out if I see it on other people's bikes.

@justineseiferth8010 3 года назад

Those who care, run campy where they are all just as amazing as super record, just a little heavier and less flash.

@stevedong5117 3 года назад

@@mxs4193 Even Tiagras are very impressive today. People are always shocked on how well they performs and how sleek they look if they are not familiar with modern road bikes. I can't wait to see the next gen Tiagra with 11 speed.

@bobabout256 3 года назад

Dura Ace getting lighter over 10 year. The trouble is I'm getting heavier at a faster rate😂

@drbonzonew 3 года назад

These espressos ☕️😂😂😂

@stribe1000 3 года назад

Bob About me too.

@neuspur 3 года назад

that is the exact reason why "lighter" components are more expensive: it is called Fat Penalty Tax. (And I have to pay a lot of that!)

@spencer.kissack.the.author 3 года назад

@@neuspur lol😄

@NealWilliams 3 года назад

Aren't we all? 😆😅😥

@winterwilliams3149 3 года назад

Don’t mind me, just having a minor existential crisis after hearing 7900 referred to as retro.

@h.s.5995 3 года назад

I'm a mummy

@winterwilliams3149 3 года назад

@Mi gi Such a beautiful groupset, I'm happy knowing somebody's riding them and appreciating them for what it is.

@1xsnrg 2 года назад

I guess my 7800 is ancient.

@AlexanderBlocker 2 года назад

Dude, my mountain bike’s XTR set is barely from this millennium. I feel you

@davidheileson5803 2 года назад

I’m on a 105 group set from 1987. I’m a dinosaur. I also have a mountain bike from 92 with deore lx on it. Both work great. Lol

@HkFinn83 3 года назад

I just want GCN to tell me which aero, disk equipped carbon fibre frame to buy that would best suit my Di2 Dura Ace group set. Btw I do 2 mile commute about 3-4 times a month, so every second is crucial.

@NathanaelGreer 3 года назад

Bus pass fatty

@miggylachica7601 3 года назад

Aeroad cfr

@vooveks 3 года назад

I think Halfords do one.

@chadsawyer894 2 года назад

Good set of Nikes should do it.

@mikejohnson7768 2 года назад

Get a monthly bus ticket

@alexside_ 3 года назад

For a bike from 10 years ago, that Argon 18 is a beauty 😍

@jamesmiller5318 3 года назад

I had that bike

@mattball420 3 года назад

10 years is still recent lol tech used to move alot faster but the better it gets the slower in grows, might as well have been a bike from 3 years ago

@paulmcewen7384 3 года назад

amen.

@patrickparisienne1917 3 года назад

Love my Argon 18 Krypton

@andylewington-mawer2796 3 года назад

Agreed, what a stunning looking machine 😀

@endurancesweat 3 года назад

DuraAce 7900 shifting was a bit stiff as it was the first generation of Shimano with internal cables from the shifters. On the other hand, DuraAce 7800 was a smooth as silk. Still one of the best groupsets that Shimano ever produced.

@MrChippinator 2 года назад

I like that old school Argon 18. External cable routing and rim brakes, just so easy to work on and modify.

@twiggyinc1 3 года назад

A good graph would have helped with this weight shake down. Y axis = weight X axis = years Lines with Dura Ace rim or disc Lines with Ultegra rim or disc Lines with 105 rim or disc All with brake lines See how the weights have dropped over the years

@DrewLevitt 3 года назад

Good idea! Also, in many cases, groupsets' weights have not actually fallen over the years. Cheeky example, but the Huret Jubilee rear derailer (from the 1970s) is substantially lighter than any modern rear derailer.

@draftwood 3 года назад

@@DrewLevitt And those Nylfor(sp?) nylon headsets from the 70s also weigh less than current comparable dimension headsets.

@Klaster_1 3 года назад

@@DrewLevitt according to disraeligears.co.uk, Huret Jubilee is 145g. That's how much a mechanical Red 11s RD weighs and only 3g less than a RD-R9100 in direct mount configuration.

@jacobmathis5686 2 года назад

Weights have increased with disc brakes

@robinrichard-campeau2797 3 года назад

I do have such an "old" Dura-Ace on my TT bike. In the end, I found this discussion about groupsets more hype than anything else. Why ? Because whatever the technology upgrades are... the amateurs riders I face keep having the same results (me either). If I look a the bike splits for any given local tri race or for any TT close to where I live, I find the exact same speeds now compared to 5, 10 and 15 years ago. So, maybe shifting is nano-second faster, maybe changing gear is nano-second faster, but the truth is cyclists are not because bikes are not significantly faster now. When I analyse past results (ok, for flat TT races) I only a major improvment in speed when aero carbon fiber bikes got into the market. More recently, neither better groupsets, Di2, powemeters or anything elsehad a real impact on the results among the competitive-recreational cyclists around me. If I go for a ride with a group, I don't see how my "old" groupset has a negative effect on my ability to follow the pace. But, all the time I see cyclists changing their equipment for something newer, telling me it is so much better now... after what I don't see them being a iota faster than before. That said, I guess I would say otherwise if I was riding my bike in a place with a lot of hills, mountains, climbs...

@johndef5075 3 года назад

Amen.

@stuffoflardohfortheloveof 3 года назад

Thank the lord! Somebody stating the obvious. Well said. Everyone loves technology and upgrades BUT nothing wrong with my 1998 dura-ace groupset apart from the fact that my 23 tooth is not good for me at my age. It’s all in the legs! 👍

@robertmendelson7724 3 года назад

Completely agree! Aero, weight going uphill, and, what I no longer have, young legs! Derailleur improvement that matters is accommodating gear ratios that were unthinkable in the past. Ride 52-42, and 14x21 on my racing Holdsworth in the 70s. Bike weighed 10 kg with pedals. Quite similar to Merckx hour record bike. I agree with Ollie, if you want to be faster, get aero, in particular, an aero helmet, and skin tight clothing. Then train more and lose 2 kg of weight from your middle. You’ll be amazed how much faster you are.

@mattball420 3 года назад

Thats because we get to a point where it gets slot harder to improve, nothing has advanced much in the last 10, computers, phones, cars, bikes etc are all making smaller and smaller improvements each year, at this point its just to make sales by saying its new and improved

@dbanbery 3 года назад

I see that. I have seen a noticeable difference between my 12kg steel resto mod and my 20 year old 8kg climbing bike, but that still pales into insignificance when I look at my fitness.

@iwearflansuit 3 года назад

"I'm going to talk a little more about the derailleurs, because that's what I'm into" Ollie's a dork and that's why we're here

@musekidd 3 года назад

Absoooo-luuuuuutely!

@mattball420 3 года назад

The only thing into my derailleurs here is my pant leg lol

@spencer.kissack.the.author 3 года назад

Ollie - Jeremy Clarkson for bikes

@TheWhimsicalWoodworker 3 года назад

That moment when the Groupset you ride is called “retro” 😳

@mattsoutherden 3 года назад

I just had the same moment of horror. 😬

@gregorsamsa8632 3 года назад

If this is retro my group set (RSX 1999) is not even existing...

@wickedtwix 3 года назад

I ride an Ultegra Trek from 2000. Ultegra 6000, 9 Speed. 😂

@richcrompton6891 3 года назад

Mine is retro and crap as well! I wouldn’t even mind 2008 105 on my bike! The thing is, the Tiagra/Sora mix on my old Trek is still working ok and I have no need to upgrade just yet, so I’ll just keep riding it until I wreck it!

@benflint4207 3 года назад

Shimano 600 Arabesque on my daily, 6 speed, friction shift and so much prettier than all this modern bollocks.

@chrisburton4694 3 года назад

Due to a cock up at my lbs, I’m riding a loan bike from them. They’ve given me a home build with Tiagra on it. My normal bike is a 2016 defy with that era ultegra. Cards on the table I really can’t tell any difference on shifting or braking etc. Very impressed. Trickle down is very apparent.

@workingguy6666 3 года назад

I bought a used 2016 gravel bike with Tiagra, and agree that parts of it are just fine. The chain went in short order (I have to wonder if the steel quality is lower in a Tiagra chain), so I put on a 10-speed Ultegra chain. Other than that, though, it was fine until I bent the derailleur.

@lloydhlavac6807 3 года назад

This is something I have been thinking about. I raced for many years, and used mainly Dura Ace and Ultegra. My last race bike is full Ultegra mechanical, but I got it in 2001. I stopped racing in 2008, but have continued to ride for exercise, and have thought if I ever get around to buying new stuff, modern 105 is probably good enough for my needs. So thanks for the video! 🚴‍♂️

@steveretiredandcycling 3 года назад

I run a two year old Ultegra groupset and my wife's bike has the same vintage 105. Both are smooth and high quality. For the cost, 105 is fine for the average rider.

@staff0flag 3 года назад

I've been waiting for this one! Thank you!

@Swampster70 3 года назад

That model of Dura Ace was cutting edge design at the time, seems fair to put it up against the latest that Shimano has to offer in 105.

@mokotramp Год назад

Tiagra is bombproof and works impeccably!

@rizkiyoist 3 года назад

Ollie said 105 is the groupset of the people. Me in Claris: I'm not people :(

@FlatSpinMan 3 года назад

Rizki Hadiaturrasyid Back to the nether worlds with you!

@noonehere4332 3 года назад

Tourney

@johndaly846 3 года назад

Claris is brilliant. What do they call our planet?

@OzcarMtl 3 года назад

Im on Claris as well and loving it, I might upgrade to Tiagra but just to get hydraulic disc brakes.

@mrvwbug4423 3 года назад

As a MTBer, I would have to go at least Tiagra if I were to get a road bike, once you go hydraulic discs you will never willingly go back to rim brakes.

@endianAphones 3 года назад

You should compare the last 10 speed Dura-ace with the latest Tiagra, with rim brakes. IMO that's a much better comparison.

@richardhaselwood9478 3 года назад

That would be interesting.

@ewu2030 3 года назад

tiagra is really similar with 105 in regards to how things are built. So i guess except the extra weight...not much of a difference. As I noticed, ultegra and dura ace share the same mechanical design and tiagra and 105. Probably the question would be, how would a tiagra/105 look in 20k km vs a dura ace or even ultegra.

@Fauz11ukman 3 года назад

Someone says newest tiagra just like 105 but less 1 gear

@ewu2030 3 года назад

@@Fauz11ukman and a bit heavier

@simonpeneau7802 3 года назад

@@ewu2030 "a bit heavier" ? really... lests compare my 7900, i weight it : 1964g in rim brakes. Tiagra = 3300g ! just a bit lighter... 1,4kg is a huge difference. My bike weight 7,8kg, if i install a 10v Tiagra : 9,1kg (18% heavier!!!!!!!!). Its not a weigth you expected with a carbon bike

@dtrain5519 2 года назад

Your channel is awesome! Light humorous and very informative. Thanks and keep it up!!😃👍

@oftankoftan 3 года назад

Since they didn't add up the two lists, here are the totals: Dura Ace 7900: 2030g 105 R7000: 2489,4g I'd go dura ace because I save 459g and disc brakes aren't worth the extra weight. I'd rather climb hills than brake better going down them. Besides, I've never had any problems at all with rim brakes. It's just a bit of work making sure the wheels are always true. Oh, and 7900 has bigger cassettes. 30T works apparently. And why didn't Ollie time himself going up the hill? I reckon he was faster with the older group set

@olavh469 3 года назад

And after having bought DA, your wallet is much much lighter as well. A proper two’fer If you were ever looking for one!

@JCW86 2 года назад

459g is barely a pound. You can lose that much body weight and more by pooping. I'll never understand why people get so obsessed with everything being as lightweight as possible. That only matters for the highest level professionals, but hobbyists.

@oftankoftan 2 года назад

@@JCW86 because weight on your body and weight on your bike is different.

@JCW86 2 года назад

@@oftankoftan you're still carrying the weight around, whether it's your body or the bike. i'd rather lose 10 lbs than spend thousands to lose that weight on my bike.

@oftankoftan 2 года назад

@@JCW86 Imagine you lose 20 lbs. Now imagine putting those 20 lbs back onto your bike. You'd be much slower than before. That's just the physics of it. you'd have to use your weight to accelerate the added weight on the bike, and vice versa. And we haven't even got into sprung vs. unsprung weight.

@greedybloke4215 3 года назад

@10.04 “I’m already in the easiest gear” ....cuts to a shot on the large chain ring and in the middle of the rear cassette... This boys a ringer methinks...unless I’ve been using my gears wrong.....Damn! Great comparison of tech through time...it’ll be interesting to see how old electronic groupsets hold up (against the mechanicals) in 10 yrs+, if they still work.

@stevek8829 3 года назад

I noticed that but put it down to someone else editing in some footage later, that didn't match second by second.

@996driver1 3 года назад

I agree and actually own this Dura Ace group on a bike. I just bought two canyons with 105 and Ultegra, Both are wonderful but I stayed with mechanical. I bet the old Dura Ace is still shifting like a Swiss watch another decade from now. I was not willing to make that bet on electronic sets. Cheers!

@angela-onesroman8873 3 года назад

Yeah I noticed that, could of been an easy edit.

@nikolapantelic1605 3 года назад

I've been using new 105 rim brake version for a year now. I'm absolutley satisfied, wouldn't change a thing about it. Great performance and budget friendly. Now I can finaly consider buying a powermeter 😊

@JohnnyNowhere 2 года назад

I reckon that my 2002 Shimano 600 groupset is considered a boat anchor these days. No worries, I still love it.

@KenSmith-bv4si 3 года назад

Great video Ollie. My first bike had 105 group set, my second bike Ultegra group set, then I watched a video Si did last year. My third bike a 2020 Tarmac has Sram Force, electronic shifting is awesome!

@bossg2817 3 года назад

I'm still waiting for the trickle down technology for the claris groupset 😅

@HkFinn83 3 года назад

There isn’t much difference for a normal person

@robbchastain3036 3 года назад

Or when your cranks are simply stamped 'custom.' That's when you really know you have something special :)

@jrnamida5470 3 года назад

@@HkFinn83 I certainly can tell the change from 9 speed Ultegra 6500 components to Sora R3000 9 speed drive line. I am a weekend warrior and visually like the hidden wires, shifts that are perceived to be quicker, smoother and positive, most of all lots of different brifter adjustments and positions that were not available with the older units.

@HkFinn83 3 года назад

JR Namida yeh sounds like a profound difference

@djlemma 3 года назад

Claris went through a generation upgrade not too long ago. I upgraded to the newer claris brifters so that all my cables could run under the bar tape, instead of having the shift cables flapping around out front.

@svfutbol20 3 года назад

I watched this video with my nice headphones and the music was bumpin' as well! Great choices

@ClarkS963 3 года назад

Love these comparisons and retro stuff.

@peteransel2715 3 года назад

Excellent job Ollie. Your passion for bike tech is shared by many of us and your insight much appreciated. Cheers!

@ulrichr.487 3 года назад

Interesting review! I still use DA 7900 on one of my bikes...still working great after more then 70.000 km in all kind of weather conditions (chainwheels, cassette and chain were frequently changed of course). Lever throw has really significantly improved in the following generations, as you mentioned as well, and the hoods feel a bit clumsy, but i got used to it. DA 7900 was also avaiIable with a compact chainset 34/50 (named FC 7950) and the rear derailleur is capable of working with a 30 teeth rear sprocket (shimano officially stated 28, but in most cases 30 works fine, depends on geometry of the derailleur hanger), so gear ratio is not an big issue. I still enyoy DA 7900 but it's great to see, how good and versatile 105 has become! Great value for the money, which always is a good thing. Cheers!

@TC-ik9kn 3 года назад

The durability of the 7900 series will outlast this new crap , I also confirm that works on 30t cassette flawless

@kevjay-med1225 3 года назад

I'm running a DA 7800 and it's so limiting in terms of the cassette I can run with it. Previous owner put a 11-28 on it and I can't really use the largest gear without some rubbing. Thinking about upgrading

@TC-ik9kn 3 года назад

@@kevjay-med1225 why don't you give a go on using a wolftooth roadlink ? Easy and cheap solution of you want to use a 32 /34 (or more ) cassette!!!!

@markiemannie 3 года назад

@@kevjay-med1225 I'm running the exact same setup with an ultegra 11-28 cassette and my DA7800 seems to have no problems with chain rubs at all. Seems it differs a bit depending on the exact bike geometry?

@kevjay-med1225 3 года назад

@@markiemannie definitely possible! Do you run 39/53 up front?

@22fret 3 года назад

I've been using 105 ever since, starting from my Peugeot Aspin 14 with downtube shifters until today in my Cannondale CAAD 5. It's a great groupset, always working perfectly and offering a lot of bang for the buck...

@Kvs-vf9nt Год назад

You're absolutely right. I bought the Scott speedster 10 (2022 model) it's an 11 speed and offcourse with 105 7000 groupset.👍 It's the best one price/quality wise. And I wouldn't go any lower than a 105. Everyone that can't or won't afford more than a tiara talks about the latest tiagra, but just a big no for me. A 105 is what I want minimum at least. I can afford Ultegra but I had to buy all new cycling gear, so everythin again, new Garmin (350euro) a speed and cadence meter for Garmin too. A 125euro bikefitting. And also need a thing for Zwift (for this winter) that will cost me 1000-1500 euros as well. So I'm pretty happy with the 105 7000 it performs really wel. And I wanted to buy a cannondale but the one that I want had all the same stuff on it as on the Scott and was 299euro more expensive which wasn't a problem. The big problem was they only had a size 60 and that was way too big for me I need a size 58. If they had a 58 I would have picked the Cannondale. But I'm happy with the Scott.

@mieserpeter6083 3 года назад

Wouldnt it be more intelligent to compare rim version to rim version?

@swallowtail7718 3 года назад

Sadly, Intelligent is the one thing that they are not nowadays.

@andreaskuckuck5829 3 года назад

The 105 rim version has been mentioned as being obviously better than the old Dura Ace.

@dh7314 3 года назад

If they're comparing old tech v new tech then the new groupset can't have old tech rim brakes. Just my thought.

@jamesbearpark3794 3 года назад

@@dh7314 current 105 exists in rim brake and it would be a much fairer comparison to use it. GCN have just completely sold out to companies trying to push certain products. It's sad

@oliverbridgewood3929 3 года назад

Jonatan Willi Halim thanks! 😂

@kryan 3 года назад

I've got a bike equipped with complete DA-9000 and another equipped with 105 R-7000 Disc. The difference is, to be honest, still night and day. Both are enjoyable rides, and new 105 is a million miles ahead of my previous 105 bike, a 5600 groupset, but in a blind test you can still easily tell the difference. They're both positive shifters, but the 105 is very utilitarian in feeling compared to the DA. And DA-9000 on a compact is great for hilly areas. :-)

@tomyee1336 3 года назад

I’m now 35 years old. Old school just keeps me thinking about younger days. I’m at the point in life if it works don’t change it.

@adrian_veidt 3 года назад

if that argon is considered a retro bike, then that makes my bike prehistoric. 😂😭😭

@trigonzobob 2 года назад

Haha!! I had the same thought when he called the Argon "retro". My main roadie is still the Dura-Ace equipped bike I bought in 1986.

@djscale 3 года назад

7803 Dura Ace 3x10 The Best Groupset EVER ...Still working like new , smooth and easy .

@oliverkim334 3 года назад

Beautiful knowledge and thank you for sharing

@matthewspooner8932 3 года назад

I'm a tech junky as well as having a passion for classic bikes. The DA7800 groupset, where gear cables come out of the side is possibly the nicest shifting groupset until the DA9000, the DA7900 was a step backwards, but asthetically nicer as gear cables route under bar tape. DA wears really well, very few Ultegra or 105 groupsets still shift nicely after 10 years of riding, while DA lasts well, higher initial price but lower long term cost. The 2008 Argon 18 with DA is probably worth £750 today, while the Orbea with 105 I am sure would cost over £2000, given the choice I would take the Argon as it is a beatiful classic, but in all honesty, in a race, I think that the Orbea would be a little quicker, and certainly more comfortable, but the differences would be pretty small

@treygray2817 2 года назад

The Argon would likely be quicker due to having rim brakes.

@TheCmcyclist 3 года назад

I replaced by decade old Ultegra last year with the 105 and felt it didn't miss a beat. It's smooth and reliable and the price was right ~$550US.

@RynoLamont 3 года назад

I have a DA 7700 front brake on my Cervelo P3C, probably one of the best brakes ever made. Light weight & incredible stopping power.

@shannonboston1249 Год назад

I love your Channel I recently bought a prince ultegra 2022 disk, waiting for carbon fiber wheels and the carbon fiber headset handlbar combo, this bike is awesome

@charliewhiskey8440 3 года назад

Can we do a comparison of today's Sora / Claris against Dura-Ace from 20 years ago?

@harryminowa 3 года назад

Yes please!

@oBradda 3 года назад

Not 20 years, but IMO 7800 is still the best out there.

@tomhuynh4976 3 года назад

Here I am still rocking Dura-Ace 7400 series with downtube shifters

@paulschmidtke425 3 года назад

Me too, got asked what they were for ? A couple of times lol

@robevans5222 3 года назад

Me too. Still working perfectly with 70,000 km on the bike. Some people actually see the DT shifters and wonder what they are. A person recently referred to them as "suicide shifters". My shifts are without exception crisp and quiet, while some of my companions' much newer drivetrains emit interesting noises as they shift or ride. I do admit, though, that I envy the performance of the newer brake calipers on my wife's bike.

@TheRip72 3 года назад

@@robevans5222 I had the same comment once, but I don't have a problem with them. I also had pedal cages on the bike & they were much worse. When out on my DT bike, someone asked me why I kept adjusting my frame!

@71CMM 3 года назад

That must look pretty sweet. Steel frame too?

@bbnflpn 3 года назад

If it no broke,no fix. My classic bike ( Azuki Imperial upgraded from Dia Compe to Suntour Superbe Pro components ) would survive a nuclear war.

@tonycrabtree3416 3 года назад

I put together a 2012 S5 with the R7000 caliper brakes and "short" cage. Pleased as punch with it. Really a great value.

@andyczarny1 2 года назад

I've just build New/old bike on 2001 Fausto Coppi frame with New 105 groupset anf love it!!

@jenmac287 3 года назад

i ride old school dura ace 9 speed works extremely well. great job.

@prestachuck2867 3 года назад

9-Speed DA 7700 had the best shift feel of any generation other than 9100.

@runningwithshemp 3 года назад

@@prestachuck2867 I agree it's still on my sibling's bike. Lever shape seems really small now but the action is superior with how direct the cables are. I find this video's comparison pretty bad if it was me I'd compare 7800 to current 105 as 7800 was last gen with exposed cable and 7900 was the most underperforming of all the generations. Also agree 9100 action is excellent.

@ynotnilknarf39 3 года назад

@@prestachuck2867 Sorry but I'd disagree with that and I loved my 7700 group, arguably the best aesthetic Shimano group, just shading 7410 8 speed (chainset maybe just in favour of the 7410 mind). Shifting by comparison 7700 to 9000 or even 7800 is night and day. I got the 9001 shifters but set up properly they are fantastic, the 7900s were a little less smooth but still better than the 7700s IMO.

@teddansonLA 3 года назад

Me too - but it's hard to get replacements now. I have an ultegra 11 speed because I got fed up of the difficulty in sourcing new parts, and I think it's not so great. The compact chain rings wear very fast, the brakes are not improved and of course it's not pretty. The gear range is good, but the shifting on 9/10 speed shimano was always great.

@jenmac287 3 года назад

@@teddansonLA i went the 9 speed microshift way. best choice as it works great. bike was professionally tuned very happy

@shmuelyosef1 3 года назад

Interesting comparison...I have a pair of my own with a similar dispersion. 40 years ago I bought two Team Miyata Pro frames from the runup to the 1980 Olympics. At the time, I outfitted one with a Suntour Superbe group (the blue one) and the other with Campy Record (the red one). The blue one had a slightly better geometry (shorter wheelbase, stiffer fork, there were 3 or 4 designs to choose from at the time, but both of them are 55 cm butted frames) so the blue one got an upgrade to Shimano Ultegra 6500 about 20 years ago...that is still to this day my main ride...handmade Wheelsmith wheels as well (from their original shop in Palo Alto where I live). The red bike continued with the Campy Record and slowly morphed to a 'wet commuter' (I added mount points during a new, still red paint job); eventually the Campy stuff got too beat up and worn out to deal with and I sprung for a Shimano 105 5700 group in (I think, 2011)...oddly, other than the 10-speed vs. 9-speed these two groups look, perform, and weigh exactly the same, and the red bike has become my hill-climber and mud bike (now that I'm retired), but is in no way inferior...

@keirfarnum6811 2 года назад

Bet those Campy hubs still spin forever though.

@alexdoner3641 2 года назад

I have Dura-Ace on my Cannondale this video is really rad and in very informative

@billmontgomerie9526 3 года назад

once again nice job sir. some very good points and counter points . would still love to have dura ace on my retirement aero and campy super record on my Italian bike . but dreaming aside i have heard nothing but good stuff about the new 105 thank you for the video

@KeithHeinrich Год назад

Campagnolo is even worse with respect to price/performance across its gruppos. I suspect Chorus is the sweetspot these days. I have 2 bikes with Potenza and I can't see a need for the fancy uber expensive SR goodness. Money no object though maybe SR on a hero build.

@jamsams 3 года назад

Having worked on bikes for nearly 20 years I must say Ultegra is my favourite. The right balance of weight, performance and price. Not taking anything away from lower groupsets either though. Claris, Tiagra and 105 are exceptional. DuraAce however, I'm not sold on it. Performance wise I don't feel it's any better than Ultegra, certainly not enough to justify the price difference.

@stiangjrvad9593 2 года назад

What is your opinion on the Sram etap axs?

@justinearlrosete3258 2 года назад

What about Sora?

@kylecouture1917 2 года назад

I still have an older rim brake Cannondale Synapse with 10 speed sram apex and that thing is a gem tbh. Was the bike that got my entire family into cycling.

@mokotramp Год назад

Agreed!

@dbo4506 3 года назад

Id take the new 105 everyday of the week and twice on Sundays

@noobiedooby26 2 года назад

Happy to see a bike from Québec here!!

@tedomir8388 2 года назад

Please talk about the 7800/6600/5500 series, I think these are legendary groupsets for people who can't or don't want to spend a fortune on their bikes.

@appa609 3 года назад

The biggest problem by far is that you tested an 11-28 against an 11-32 on a ridiculously steep climb. You were struggling to turn the crank in 34-32, so obviously 39-28 is going to fail, and not because of any problems inherent to the groupset. Shimano doesn't make bigger rear cogs for dura ace because pros don't need them: they can maintain cadence up every climb in the world tour. Modern Dura Ace still has a bigger smallest gear than 105 and would still lose in this test.

@TheWoogeroo 2 года назад

Yep, there’s no big difference in drivetrain efficiency or gear range all else being equal, and you could still win pro races with DA7900 today. 10 speed was gone, as was 9 speed.

@luc4662 Год назад

It baffles me that, still today, road bikes are sold by default with such small cassettes. I got a SRAM 11-36 cassette on my otherwise Shimano drivetrain because Shimano doesn’t even offer a 36 cassette. Whatever tiny advantage you have with narrow speed gaps is more than lost as soon as you start a steep climb and pedal at a crazy low cadence. Range matters. Shimano, please act !

@vetracer217 Год назад

@@luc4662 I see your point, but it's also subjective to each cyclist fitness levels and needs.

@luc4662 Год назад

@@vetracer217 Well sure, but I think the default gearing is quite far from what would best suit the typical customer, at leat if you live in a mountainous area. I understand that if you live somewhere totally flat, 11-28 makes sense. I understand that if you're a pro who can climb 1500 vertical meters per hour, 11-28 makes sense. But I'm in neither of those categories, and I suspect most people aren't either !

@ynotnilknarf39 Год назад

@@luc4662 an 11-36 creates a significant loss due to the jumps in the ratios, sometimes enough that you lose our rythm and on an ever changing gradient ou're chopping and changing gears and our rpm is all over the place. It's not insignificant. I do agree regards 11T starting sprockets, pointless except for 1st cat ad pros. I'd rather have a 53/33 with a 13-30 but then SHima o are crap at making cassette ratios for the masses.

@rogerpartington9413 3 года назад

I have a lot of experience with both group sets. The 7900 is on a 1999 Merlin road bike and the R7000 on a gravel bike. The R7000 is a big step up in my opinion but nothing beats Di2

@erlendsteren9466 2 года назад

I bought myself a 2012 Wilier Triestina Gran Turismo with Campagnolo 10 speed. Had it serviced. They said my crank was bent. They also told my I could use the New Shimano 105 50/34for 11 speed. It was true. It works. I had recently upgraded my chain and cassette to 10speed 11-25 Campagnolo Record. I am 59 years old and weigh 105 kg so 34 front and 25 backgear is close to my limit in a 1000 meter 8% climb. Bigger cassette would have been a relief, but it is ok to walk the bike now and then. All in all. I am happy with a strange campagnolo/shimanomix from different decades. I enjoy the ride. It is light (7750 gram bike included mountainbike pedals). It works nice :)

@noonster55 3 года назад

I have an old Raleigh with 6 speed Dura Ace friction shifting, a custom bike with Dura Ace 8 speed down tube shifters from around 1994, an old 2000 Trek 5500 with 9 speed Dura Ace STI, and a bike with the 2020 version of Dura Ace mechanical set. All of them shift great... I also have a have a 2020 Trek Emonda ALR-5 Disc with The latest 105 groupset. Honestly, they all work fantastically. Sometimes I will ride ride 2 or 3 of them back to back, maybe 10 miles each, just to see if I prefer one over the other. I can never really make a decision on which one I prefer. I love them all...My first race was on the Raleigh. The last race was on the Trek 5500. A long time ago. If I was still racing, I would go with Emonda ALR-5 with the new 105. It works...

@paulschmidtke425 3 года назад

I also still have a couple of bikes with down tube friction shifters ( got asked what they were for a couple of times) love the simple and once you get the feel they work great , also.ride all my bikes ,not back to back though, I have them fitted with different length cranks for really confusing my leg muscles, 165 through to 175 , 172:5 is my competition choice

@BadTanLines 3 года назад

This makes me Feel old. When I read the title my mind jumped back to my memories of Dura Ace 7800, the last grouoset with the cables out in the wind. It's hard to accept that my beloved 7800 stuff actually came out like 15 years ago 😂.

@prestachuck2867 3 года назад

7700 was incredibly good as well. Probably the best shifting of all their mechanical groupsets, inmho. There is a lot more to shift performance and feel than a short lever throw.

@jitterspec 3 года назад

Funny i just rebuilt my 9 speed chorus lever tonight. Bought in 1997, levers rebuilt 4 times. My shifter was 11 years old when the old duraace was built. Now my levers are 23 years old. Im not gonna claim thst my stuff is just as good as the new stuff, but it just works. Im definitely the limiting factor.

@matteo.ceriotti 3 года назад

Great idea doing this comparison!

@Digi20 3 года назад

Due to building my bikes from scratch, i always mix and match the components as i see need. On my current road-bike, there are Ultegra Di2 8000 (because, well, i wanted Di2) hydro Levers and mechs, but the casette is 105 (because it gets worn out and i can not tell a difference in shifting quality between 105 and dura-ace in the first place), as well are the brake calipars (same workings as ultegra/dura-ace). so you can save quite a bit of money when not counting the last few gramm, but get exactly the same feeling. oh, but i wasnt sensible with the cranks, those are dura-ace 9000, because that silver finish is just awesome ;)

@user-yx2mc9vm6x 3 года назад

I have sora from 6 years ago. Works just fine. I've never ridden anything with dura ace do I don't know what I'm missing out on. It's out of my budget anyhow.

@coloescudero3113 3 года назад

For profesionals Dura Ace For amateurs 105 it´s a great groupset, and always have Ultegra if you can spend a little more money. I have Ultegra 8000 and very happy vith it.

@rami1985 3 года назад

Not much difference in performance between 105 and ultegra. Just weight, and even then it’s not huge.

@MilesTGabourel 3 года назад

Shimano holds up nice. I daily ride (on dry days I commute to work and ride around for fun) my early 90s Cannondale (I was born in the late 90s) with a Shimano 600 tricolor. It shifts beautifully.

@beaterbikechannel2538 3 года назад

Ollie is the man. He likened a singlespeed to a Volvo 850 T5 estate and now says 105 is the groupset of the people. A man after my own heart! I built up my road bike with 105 and for the money it's hard to beat but use an Ultegra cassette, 105 will chew your freehub body splines.

@23bogarka 3 года назад

Dura Ace all day long.. 😎.. Different feeling when you watch your bike.. And when you start pedaling, its all about your engine, nothing else..Dura Ace had also 11-28 cassette, to not dramatise so much the up hill in the video

@Hazni351 3 года назад

Exactly what I wanted to know! I love GCN!

@Jakob_Nybo 3 года назад

Great video that answer a question of development that friend and I have talked about many times ;-)

@jeskli11 3 года назад

I had a mixture of this generation Dura-Ace and CX50 components on my cyclocross bike. Last winter that carbon cage of the rear mech broke in the middle of my ride, no shifting under load etc. I was looking for a quick replacement as there were races to come and I couldn't wait a month for new original cage, but I found a good deal on 105 mech from the same generation (but new piece, not even unboxed). I must say it feels better especially under the conditions you get into during CX racing and seems way stiffer than that flexy lightweight carbon one and I'm not as worried about it as before. It kinda misses the Dura-Ace look, but otherwise I love that piece of 105. I'm just slightly sorry that I didn't change also the levers to modern 105 and so the whole bike to 11 speed, which I have on my road bike and its levers are just more suited for uneven terrain.

@chrislastnamehere2740 3 года назад

Wish it had 7800 instead of 7900 to compare, the 7900 was the first "back entry" mechanical and was widely criticized at the time as losing some shifting feel/performance due to the tighter housing bends and general "redesign" of the system (different shift ratio as well I believe). Having said that, the 7900 is a better "apples-apples" comparison due to the fact that the routing can "match", but the 7800 was an incredible shifting experience (and in my book, still is), it shifts at the speed of thought it seems at times, and is very light on the levers (some of the heaviness you mention was likely due to the redesign for 7900). Anyhow, love the reviews and comparisons, just think it'd be interesting to see how 7800 would compare to 105, or even new Ultegra/DA mechanicals, due to the gentler cable bends. (And of course, the cleaner routing, better for aero, etc, lots of benefits to the bar-routed cabling besides just feel, so understandable why it changed).

@johndc498 3 года назад

I love my triple Durace on my US Postal Trek Madone from the year Lance one on it. Triple you ask ?

@appa609 3 года назад

7803 right? I love the pearly finish on those. I have a 2011 Cervelo S5 with 7800. I never understood why triple wasn't more common. It's so darn useful going up steep things.

@tyronebrown9936 3 года назад

I still ride a ‘96 Merlin w Dura Ace 7410 8 speed group set every day on Zwift. In almost 25 years I’ve never, ever had a problem. It’s bombproof. When I’m not on the Merlin, I ride a ‘98 Litespeed Vortex 6/4 Ti bike with DA 9 speed and a ‘00 Serotta Ti with DA 10 speed. Never a problem.

@alessioquaglino4529 3 года назад

I ride with a dura ace 7400 from 1996 (8 speed) and it still works perfectly. I only had to change rims to fit a modern cassette with a 28 cog

@blubaughmr 3 года назад

My commuter bike setup. But, I've changed rims a couple times because braking in the rain wore them out. Still using 26T on the back.

@ghostBCH 3 года назад

I use to have an argon 18, I love every second when I was out training with it. To bad a had of sell it due to financial problems 😞

@neuspur 3 года назад

that hurts. I am sorry to hear that. It feels even worse than a stolen bike. Trust in yourself - and never give up on you. I went through those bad days myself. Not fun at all.

@jamespink4202 3 года назад

Dura-Ace every time. I have a collection of classic bikes, at no point does 105 make an appearance. Series one Dura-Ace is super light, accurate and a delight. Later sets are smooth, beautiful and a real event to use. All going up in value, all will last a lifetime, all are better than 105 IMO. No comparison after 12 months...

@voiceofreason9780 3 года назад

@Luke Caldwell Exactly ...a huge difference that bloats even further, every time you replace a chain, cassette, or chainring.

@treygray2817 3 года назад

@@voiceofreason9780 I hope he has the sense not to use Dura Ace for the wear items

@damionmandy7978 2 года назад

I have 105 on my synapse alloy and it's great I'm very happy with it.

@tekink8143 2 года назад

Still have my 7950 di2 groupset from 2009 on carbon sport LW clinchers on my red Time RXR old bike. Has the K-edge rear der. with long cage that I can run up to a 36 SRAM 10 spd cassette . Ages like a fine wine!

@antonv5488 3 года назад

Speaking of uphill test, my prev 6.9kg bike had 52-36 with 11-28 on rim brakes, and new bike is 9kg 105 with 50-34 11-34 on discs. And in both cases the gears choice was perfect, never struggled with 11-28, and now I can't live without 11-34. It's a shame that ±9kg road bikes are a new norm, even if you pay 4k EUR.

@mostlyboring Год назад

Interesting observation! Indeed I have just bought a second-hand Cervelo R5 with DA 7900 from 10 years ago that is significantly lighter than the brand new Cervelo Caledonia 105 that I was thinking about.

@drbadzer Год назад

For me I'd go for the older model. Proven by time and they have had tons of time to iron out issues that would only appear with years of use. My weight and fitness level are the bottleneck to my performance at the moment, gaining minutes in better fitness with a reliable system would be more beneficial than risking reliability for a few extra seconds that I can't maximize now anyways.

@jameswoods4656 3 года назад

I put 105 on a retro ish build on a Reynolds 531 frame instead of a period correct groupset and it rides beautifully.

@stevenr5149 3 года назад

THANK YOU GCN. While I do enjoy looking at all the high-end bike bling(and Ollie's hair bling);) on GCN, I appreciate so much that GCN does not forget those of use that will never be able to afford a super/hyper bike. This is a great companion video to the blind test. I suggest a third video, "What individual parts are worth mixing and matching." For example, I ride a 105 crank. It is the only one available in 160mm. I ride with very light absolute black asymmetrical chain-rings and most the the 105 crank's extra weigh is located in the 1-piece chairing design. Finally, at 105lbs, crank-flex is not an issue(is it really an issue for anyone other than Sagan? is it really an issue for him?) . Yet another possible video;)

@mikenaus 3 года назад

Let's talk about how slick that Orbea looks!

@TheRip72 3 года назад

My 2014 Orbea was written off in a crash last month so I have already been spec'ing up a replacement in orange. Seeing that has more or less decided it for me.

@whelangc 3 года назад

My Son just got the first one in Australia and it's 105 (his first road bike)

@a.refaat693 3 года назад

Me with a shimano tourney groupset 😢

@sillypuddystl2907 Год назад

My Dua-Ace from 2000 still works flawlessly!

@thaidye 3 года назад

This is the type of vid i really like to see. I got a Campy Record Titanium and Carbon 10 Speed and it is touted better than the DA 7900. Glad to see old work horses still pushing their weight!

@panzerveps 3 года назад

650 mark? I thought the Germans had switched to Euros...

@cameronalexander359 3 года назад

🤣

@janekw.6022 3 года назад

yes we have indeed :D

@nathanielluke2084 3 года назад

LMAO

@MartinE63 3 года назад

531 frame from the 1950’s, 1980’s suntour and stronglight drivetrain, and most importantly a huge satisfying dump before every ride...and I’m still quicker than most

@BrownianMotionPicture 3 года назад

Good to see someone slinging some 531 about.

@AtheistDD 3 года назад

i allways woundered why people unerestimated the weightlos ability of a good dump in the morning. I easily loose around 1kg every morning that way. Sadly my gut only gets activated right after the 25km commute. The good thing about that, i save money on toiletpaper and flushing water. My way of practicly increasing my wage, by using company toiletequipment.

@jamespink4202 3 года назад

Dura-Ace every time. No one is going to be running that 105 group in 10 years time, the Dura-Ace will still be working really well. I still have series one DA that works brilliantly. A joy to use...

@Brandles5 3 года назад

I’m still riding my Dad’s old 2006 Giant TCR2 with 105. Works like a charm although I’d love to get a new bike at some point and retire this one to a permanent garage Zwift bike.

@a-kazebo-z5139 3 года назад

My Merlin Titanium still looks good (very good) with its Dura ace 7400 Dow tube shifters....I think the bike it’s going to outlast me ,,,

@piotrdemidowicz2058 3 года назад

Make something about lower tier groupsets like claris, sora and tiagra. ;)

@claysmith894 3 года назад

9 people out of 10 won't be able to feel a difference between tiagra 10 speed and 105 speed

@einundsiebenziger5488 2 года назад

@@claysmith894 There are minimal jumps from Claris to Sora to Tiagra, then there's a massive jump to 105 and again miniscule jumps from 105 to Ultegra to Dura Ace. The force required to shift gears and the amount of lever throw decrease rapidly and noticeably between Tiagra and 105.

@benclarkson9913 3 года назад

Really useful video. I’m considering a new bike with modern 105 so it’s good to see how impressive it is. Dura Ace , a bit out of my price range.

@jcsk8 2 года назад

Until a while ago I was still using a 7800 Dura-Ace. Amazing groupset. As I´m not cycling or competing anymore I´ve stayed with Tiagra. Good enough for me now.

@RobPiatt 3 года назад

6 adverts in a 20min video - 5 of which you can't skip! You're losing me GCN. You're losing me....

@pinkie7803 3 года назад

Download an ad-blocker and RU-vid might become enjoyable for you again.

@threeinoneoil 3 года назад

You missed the fact that the entire video was a Shimano advertisement haha.

@pinkie7803 3 года назад

@@threeinoneoil No, I didn't; I offered a solution to a problem.

@JohnDir-xw3hf 3 года назад

@@pinkie7803 is there youtube adblocker for android?

@pinkie7803 3 года назад

@@JohnDir-xw3hf Use a web browser rather than the app, and install AdBlock

@kibbee890 3 года назад

Should have compared it to Tiagra as they are both 10 speed

@soissesglaubsmir292 3 года назад

105 is 11-speed

@kibbee890 3 года назад

@@soissesglaubsmir292 yeah tiagra is 10 speed lineup year old dura ace

@jmounce50 3 года назад

Cool video! 105 is pretty awesome for the price.

@nelsonmurphy9651 2 года назад

Very nice, thanks for the information

@gcn 2 года назад

Our pleasure!

@roberthale8407 3 года назад

DA 7400 FTW!!!

@cgmasson 3 года назад

DA still looks better, which lets be honest is pretty important for many riders.

@NickTubeless 2 года назад

My Trek Madone 6.5 SSL has Dura Ace 7800 which is about 15 years old & has done about 25,000 miles. It still operates like new & I love it & the bike. Only gripe is maximum tyre size 25mm & biggest rear cassette cog 27 teeth.

@yashar9844 2 года назад

I am amazed by the patience of the car drivers in these videos. I ride in California (south) and almost always use bike lane, but still once in a while there are cars which try to push me out of road. It happened almost once every 2 weeks, once, even one van driver tried to totally run me and then my friend who was 100 feet ahead of me and both were using bike lane.