Why Can't Vegeta Turn Into A Super Saiyan 3? 

Vegeta didn't turn SS3 only because he didn't have the same benefits Goku did. Goku was fucking dead, he had access to way more energy his body didn't tire as much and all he did was train and fight other strong dead people. Vegeta was physically limited during Goku's death, he was not able to recover after training the same way Goku was able to since he was dead. Think about it. In Buu saga when Goku fights kid buu he runs out of energy and can't maintain SS3. Why? Cause he had been wished back to life. They have to waste a fucking wish on just getting his energy level back. If Vegeta had died and been allowed to train in the after life he would of been at the same level as Goku. It's not fair to ask why Vegeta was unable to reach SS3 at the same time as Goku when Goku had an obvious training advantage due to the way his body worked when dead.

Personally I wouldve loved Vegeta going super saiyan 3 cause then I imagine a Rocky 3 type ending but instead of Rocky and Apollo, with Goku and Vegeta. Now friends vegeta calls Goku out to a desolate place. Vegeta steps out ready to spar Goku as goku prepares then Vegeta goes Super Saiyan 3 finally a match again for his rival after all these years and then just have em Fly at each other xD

because he's not the main character.

Funny joke! Goku: Hey Vegeta, want to hear a joke? Vegeta: sure Goku: super Saiyan three Vegeta: I don't get it Goku: THAT'S THE POINT

Akira Toriyama. That's why.

Super saiyan four isn't necessarily just the next step forward. You guys are thinking in a really linear fashion doncha think? Anddddd vegeta did not turn super saiyan four because of the machine. Gaining control in your ape form is what gives you the super saiyan four capabilities. That's the way I saw it anyways. The machine just turned him into his ape form, it was his will and his mental and physical training that allowed him to take control and ascend.

The game is Raging Blast 2 for anyone wondering.

Vegeta's speech at the end of the buu saga where he admits goku is better than him explains it all. The point of it was to have a level that Vegeta could never attain, to finish off his character development by having admit that Goku was better than him. He says that Goku is just better than him and he finally realized that he could never catch up to him.

Vegeta fav dbz character still

Three major ideas here for revival of the DBZ series which by now are kinda overused with Goku : 1. a Future Trunks timeline series 2. a series about Vegeta's life before coming to earth and fight Goku 3. a series about Bardock's life and that would end with the special episode where he goes all "FRIEEEEEEEEEZAAAAAAAA!!!"

Because the universe could not possibly handle that much hair.

Super Saiyan 4 is not obtained in a nearly simalar way to the other SSJ forms. Super Saiyan 4 is actually obtained by looking at the moon excessively while in the Great Ape form, as I'm referring to the few scenes from GT I watched.

Thank you Qaaman! I enjoyed the discussion very much, and that gameplay looked pretty smooth too by the way ;)

SSJ 3 is a shit form. It gives you really big power, but you can't last long in this transformation. SSJ 2 is way better in terms of stamina. That's why i think second form is the best. More power than SSJ 1, but don't cost you a huge amount of stamina.

Doesn't anyone care that the video ended with yamcha beating super saiyan 3 vegeta?

Gohan can't turn SSJ3 because he is mystic gohan. Him turning SSJ in GT was a plot hole.

In Battle of Gods, Vegeta became stronger than SSJ3 Goku but still couldn't reach Super Saiyan 3. I guess Akira wasn't interested in turning Vegeta into a Super Saiyan 3.

The real reason is, that ssj3 looks stupid on vegeta xD

I feel like Vegeta didn't become SSJ3 because it had something to do with mind and inner power.Vegeta isn't really big on emotional things thus he only focuses on his body and making it stronger.Goku meditated in other world and he also told Trunks and Goten that it came from energy within that most people dont think they have left.

I think the main reason for Vegeta not reaching SSJ3 the same time as Goku is the fact that Goku had training from Master Roshi, Kami, Mr Popo, in Dr Brief's pod, from King Kai, Grand Kai and Supreme Grand Kai as well as more time to train than Vegeta. Vegeta had Dr Brief's pod and that was about it. Even when he died, he was denied the same fate as Goku, leaving him to mellow as a bare soul. Not to mention the fact that he pretty much stopped training as soon as Goku sacrificed himself to get rid of Cell. Overall, Goku had help from masters and gods whereas Vegeta was left alone as a child to train against robots that could easily kill him.

Goku: Hey Vegeta, want to hear a joke? Vegeta: Okay Goku: ssj3 Vegeta: i dont get it Goku: exactly!

I liked GT it wasn't as bad a people try to make it out to be

You could also say that Vegeta is the smarter fighter and realised that SSJ2 probably makes you more grounded and gives you more endurance. SSJ3 leads you to burn out a lot faster, just like Ascendant Saiyan, which Vegeta also stayed away from because despite strength increase, it slows you down and makes you burn out.

As I understand, The way an Super Saiyan Can become SSJ3 for the first time, It's done by being in a different dimension As Goku became SSJ3 In the other world (Dead) And Gotenks Became SSJ3 In the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for the first time. Vegeta and Gohan as well as any Z Fighter (But right now focusing on Super Saiyans) can continue to become more powerful, over the level of SSJ3 and forward, without having to necessary undergo through Phase 3 As we understand; Even now Goku's Regular Phase 1 SSJ its way stronger than Gohan's first SSJ2 They train (atleast Goku and Vegeta before seen in Battle of the Gods) in Phase 1 and still become more powerful once releasing their true power Oh and btw, The real reason (for those who don't know) into the why can Goten and trunks become super saiyan since so young its because they are born (atleast being able to) become as strong as their parents, see, Goten was conceived when Goku could already become a super saiyan, So did Trunks, The reason why Gohan couldn't doit and had to undergo alot of training with Goku its because when he was born, Goku could not yet doit. They pretty much come with the same strengh their parents has already had by the time they are concieved, Now into the why the race of the Saiyans didn't become super saiyans long time ago if they where fighters that trained all their lifes and do with that the conquering and sell of planets, don't ask me, as Toriyama

Vegeta doesn't use SS3 because he doesn't need it. SS3 is just a transformation that Goku learned to use. Toriyama explains that if someone can master the base SS, they would be stronger than a SS3. Ever wonder why Vegeta is called Super Vegeta rather than Super Saiyan Vegeta? His super form is way more powerful than that of a normal Super Saiyan. An example is when Super Vegeta actually fought Beerus while SS3 Goku was toyed with like a pet.

The better question is "why doesn't Vegeta turn into a Super Saiyan 3"? It's nothing to do with him not being able to do it, it's him understanding that it costs too much energy for a slight boost of power.

you got like 100k subs dude.....check your mic volumes, damn :P

I just always thought that it was because of the differences between settings and bodies, Goku was dead in a world with no distractions from his training, I don't even think he needed to sleep so that's 24 hours a day, every day, in a world/dimension with the galaxies strongest fighters to test against for 7 years, and as his body is already dead he therefore has less physical limits, whereas Vegeta had distractions and bodily needs to consider, therefore Vegeta would probably be able to turn SSJ3 of he was under similar circumstances.

goku was dead at the time so his body could handle the pressure that he was experinceing but vegeta was alive so it was suicide to push your body that far also that's why goku cant stay ssj3 for a long time

Super Saiyan 3 isn't even that good. Back in Buu saga. Vegeta in base form and SS1 was able to fight against kid buu for way longer than Goku's SS3 due to it's huge stamina consumption. Against Beerus, Goku's SS3 wasn't just weaker in terms of power level compared to Vegeta, since he can't land a hit on Beerus while Vegeta landed some bombs. Goku SS3's defensive capabilities is also much weaker than Vegeta's SS2, in 2 finger flicks he was knocked back to base form, while Vegeta once again, was able to tank heavy hits from Beerus while he got somewhat serious.

My theory is that SSJ3 is stupid silly looking transformation and Vegeta would never want to look like that.

Because he'd look ridiculous as sonic the hedgehog

Gohan CAN turn Super Saiyan 3, theoretically, as Mystic level is above even that. But, as has been discussed before, Super saiyan 3 would be a downgrade in power, so that's the logical explanation for it being non-existent. Vegeta COULD turn SS3, but it would take the insane amount of years Goku might've had in other world to get it. It can't happen in normal Earth time, but with SS God it doesn't matter anymore.

The real question is, what is that eyelash doing on your screen?

Can you do "What if Cooler AND Frieza came to Namek?"

The machine that Bulma created, in my opinion, was only responsible for making Vegeta's tail grow. From there he was able to turn into the Great Ape which all saiyans have the ability to turn into. "Super Saiyan 4" is basically Goku and Vegeta harnessing the Great Ape power and using it on their own will. I wouldn't even call it "Super Saiyan 4" because it doesn't have the characteristics of other Super Saiyan transformations (Yellow hair, exaggerated spiky-ness of the hair, electricity, etc)

I think he can turn super sayin 3 however he hates that form because it's unique to goku due to his training in other world. Vegeta won't turn super sayin 3 because of his pride. Also vegeta isn't that versatile in the different power levels. Goku won't turn super sayin blue unless it's absolutely necessary however vegeta Pride forces him to show his all.

Goku reached SSJ3 while he was in the afterlife, Vegeta didn't.

it's only because Akira Toriyama forgot about ssj2 and Ssj3 (mostly ssj3)

Personally, I feel that if you consider GT to be a legit continuation, you need to view SSJ4 as a sort of Oozaru-2. They showed early in DBZ that transforming into Oozaru form greatly increased a saiyan's power level, similiar to a SSJ transformation, so just like the jump from SSJ to SSJ2, the jump from Oozaru and Oozaru2 would be a large leap in power. Granted, I still call it SSJ4 because of how much power they get out of it, and the fact that it can't be stacked with other transformations. However, there is a lot of evidence that it is simply a hidden second form of Oozaru. For one, they don't have to transform up to it traditionally (i.e to transform to SSJ3 you must first go SSJ, then SSJ2), instead they transform up by going oozaru with brutz (moonlight) waves, and then contain their power in their normal body. Also, the eye color stays black, not green as in every other SSJ form. Hair color isn't yellow, and there is even fur on various parts of the body. No aura/lightning, no ki wind, probably other things too I can't remember right now. tl;dr SSJ4 is Oozaru2, not a real SSJ form.

simple he never wanted to go ssj3 he saw it as pointless because you can surpass ssj3 as a ssj2 and ssj3 has a smaller time limit and you have to worry about the time limit when your in a fight

Because writing, that's why.

Battle of Gods is a lost opportunity. even if he never went SSJ3 again, the Bulma slap was the perfect moment. he was beaten and had no power left; he needed to will new power into existence. willing yourself to power in a moment of extreme need is the definition of SSJ. in fact, i'd go so far as to call that moment a continuity error -- the only way he could've revived was by discovering a new SSJ level, just like Goku against Frieza in the Namek saga. by the rules the series laid down, he should've gone SSJ3 in that moment.

the reason Gotenks can go ssj3 and gohan cant is because 1/2 saiyan + 1/2 saiyan = whole saiyan

A couple things that could help Vegeta to go Super Saiyan 3 is if he trained in his full bulked up form in Super Saiyan 2 (Like Legendary Super Saiyan Brolly) for weeks on end never going out of that form even in his sleep. Or instead of doing exhausting training in it, he can just stay in the form casually for weeks on end including in his sleep. He would also have to learn to have full dexterity, flexibility, speed, technique, and movements while in that form. Once he feels very comfortable in it like that, he can do the highest levels of gravity training in it. He could also do some training in the Hyperbolic time chamber by creating the ball of energy of the moon energy to get used to his Oozaru form. Then he can create balls of energy, one of the moon energy, one of the sun energy, and one of Earth energy to go goldern Oozaru in the Hyperbolic time chamber. Zarbon mentioned about fighting very weak saiyans on the moon on Namek, where they may have went Golden Oozaru if looking at an inhabited planet of that solar system. Vegeta would want to get used to that Golden Oozaru form by staying in that form for weeks on end, and a SSGSS may have to moderate him so with the higher forms the patterns of training repeat to where he can get 10 years of improvement in just weeks. Then the same can be done with Goku so there can be a golden Oozaru Gogeta fusion, and a SSGSS (or SS3GSS as I haven't seen the SS3GSS yet, GOGSS which is Golden Oozaru God Super Saiyan. SS4GSS. SS5GSS, the rumored AF.) Gogeta also staying fully bulked up in that form training in the heaviest gravity possible such as if they opened up a dimensional portal to put the gravity ship into the Hyperbolic time chamber, or if Dende knows how to change the gravity forces in an area of the Hyperbolic time chamber where he may need the help of Supreme Kai to be able to do that. What's good about Goku is he's always finding new techniques, where if he does that, he may not care to find new techniques which is the problem with Goten and Trunks where they lost their will after going SS3 Gotenks. But maybe not. Goku still hasn't gotten any training from Grand Kai or King Yama. I think King Yama is far more powerful but he acts a lot weaker because in Hinduism King Yama is the God of Hell. That fruit of King Yama's is so excessively powerful that could also be an indication of how powerful he is. He first teased he could barely take Raditz, then much later on he easily put Super Perfect Cell down into Hell, and then he teased he could barely take Buu. He probably could have easily taken down Janemba too but acted vulnerable. Janemba isn't necessarily canon as the show happens differently than the movies, but it would be nice if something like Kai would have combined movies with the shows including GT as canon somehow. Goku could also get Earth God training with Dende, where even if Goku doesn't become Earth God he could still learn it but he's afraid he'd get stuck at it. Goten and Trunks went into fusion a lot which is how they were able to get to SS3, which Vegeta doesn't like to do that fusion with Goku that often. GT was really good, what a waste. Dragonball Super could be if time is changed where GT is an alternate reality, but similar events could take place of a new type of GT in the future. Whis can control time somewhat, and he must monitor alternate realities and alternate timelines. In GT the characters hadn't gotten much improvements in their training from when they left off at the Buu saga. But in Battle of the Gods, Videl is pregnant with Pan. It was decided that more can be done with the Z fighters after the Buu saga with time alteration. If Cell has some of Frieza's DNA in him, wouldn't he be able to get as powerful as Frieza if not more powerful. Cell also has the Saiyan and Namekian blood in him. Maybe like Frieza he doesn't train at all to where he can develop that inborn power. Frieza trained for 6 straight months to get into his next level to take on Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta. Unlike Cooler, Frieza didn't have the 4th transformation level and Frieza went straight into the golden form.

and why fuckin goku always have to be main character? they should drop that concept already

This video was just a bunch of blah to me. Felt like they really didn't answer the question. Sure they said the irl reason why Vegeta didn't go ssj3, but I thought that they were going to talk about it in dept with the plot and what Vegeta can't and can do, ect.

why do people want Vegeta to be an SSJ3? Why does every character have to have the same abilities? Are people going to complain that Piccolo can't heal people like Dende or that Goku doesn't have a Mystic form like Gohan? Or why King Kai never learned Instantaneous Movement? Goku learned the SSJ3 transformation in Heaven while training in another dimension. Why should Vegeta get that technique too? He doesn't need it to keep up with Goku. There are other transformations available like SSJ4 and the Super Saiyan God. SSJ3 isn't even a very useful technique; Goku and Gotenks have never won a fight using it in the series. You might as well complain that Vegeta never learned Kaoiken. Why would he even want that transformation?

Why does everyone say birus all the time. Like geez y'all not even Japanese so just say bills.

God,why did they change Lord Bills' name to Beerus? Also,as an unrelated side note: Blackenfist,your mic seems a bit aged. Or maybe it's just loud,which is common in older microphones....so in other words,yeah. You should get a better mic.

"Thundershot! Whats going on everybody" R.I.P earphone wearers

i am vegeta prince of all hair lines

Vegeta can go SSGSS but can't go SSJ3. Lmao.

He pretty much did turn SSJ3, in Battle of the Gods, when Bulma gets hit by Beerus, Vegeta goes mental and powers up to the point where the other characters say he is "stronger than Goku". If Vegeta became stronger than Goku, who was SSJ3, in a fit of SSJ rage similar to that of Goku when Krillin dies, Vegeta essentially became a SSJ3, they just didn't animate it.

Why can't Vegeta or any other Sayian or half Sayians go SS3 or 4......because Dragon Ball is about Goku not the other fighters, The other fighters are Goku's motivation to get stronger the other fighter are simply there to give Goku something to protect and defend !

Regardless, the only SSJ3 anyone wants to see is Raditz

2:22 Qaaman predicted the future confirmed

Yes u are talking about things like , goku was dead so he could train , vegeta didnt train as hard as goku did bla bla. All them factors might play at role in this but u are forgeting to mention the most important factor of all! Goku is simply superior to vegeta and thats why he was able to do it and vegeta couldnt! I mean look at cell saga for example , vegeta might actually been ahead of goku as both of them was sjj1 and goku had a virus which probably weakened and allowed vegeta to improve meanwhile. But even after all this vegeta had a FULL years in the time chamber went acended sjj with his FULL training to his max ability. Goku after recovring from a heart virus went into the time chamber for LESS than a year and was spending the majority of the time traning his son and yet he came out a great deal stronger than vegeta! So goku had everything agaisnt him , had less preperation , less training and less time to develop his powers but still surpassed vegeta by a GREAT deal. Does should tell u enough about their body capabilities and that surely players the biggest factor in the fact that goku can go sjj3 and vegeta cant ? dont u agree?

If the series continued I believe vegeta could go ssj3

I love watching Yamcha own Vegeta SSJ3 in the background as they're talking about the topic.

virginia can go super saiyan 3, did u never play raging blast 2? smh. broly also goes lssj3.

I was just watching the game xD

You guys make no sense at all. First off, Bulma's machine didn't increase Vegeta's power, it only made his tail grow out so that he can transform into a super saiyan 4. U cannot go ss4 without a tail regardless how powerful you are. Monkey, Ape = Tail = Ss4. Second, no evidence what so ever that Kakarot was more powerful than Ss4 Vegeta. Kakarot in reality was thrilled that Vegeta transformed into a SS4. Cut out the B.S and stop making assumptions that Kakarot lowered his power level to fuse with Vegeta.

Why do you guys reference gt if gt is not cannon?

But ain't majin vegeta as strong as ss3 gokue

Goten and Trunks are half saiyans. They can't go SSJ3 in their base forms, but they can while fused. Why? Two halves create a whole. Their non-saiyan halves merge, and their saiyan halves merge, theoretically. Gohan didn't fuse with anyone to gain full-saiyan capability, and has always been in normal/base form, which is why he can't go SSJ3. Why wouldn't Trunks/Goten be able to go SSJ3 in their base forms if that wasn't the reason? Goku and Vegeta can go SSJ4 in their base forms without being fused, because they are full saiyans. You could always say "SSJ3 and SSJ4 are different." Not really, just separately powerful forms, and my theory is that SSJ3+ are only capable with the powers of 100% saiyan. Concrete proof right there. I haven't kept up with anything DBZ lately, so please don't jump my ass if something recently came out to disprove this statement.

gt sucks

I think vegeta should be able to go ssj3 because if he has the potential of achieving transformations stronger than ssj3 then he should have obtained that transformation at some point

Simple explanation, he can't go SSJ3 because he never trained as hard in another dimension i.e the hyperbolic time chamber or other world. Goku learned it when he was dead because his body had no limits when you're dead so he learned it, gotenks learned it in the hyperbolic time chamber and had the power of both half saiyans and half humans, and vegeta never trained like that whenever he was in the hyperbolic time chamber. AT this point it's a useless form to even consider using for himself

Well, just want to point out, Vegeta wasn't "distracted" during his 7-year training after Cell. I've been checking up the manga again to clear some details, and in it, during his fight with Goku (when he was "possesed" by Babidi), when Goku says how he (Vegeta) "has sure become strong", Vegeta flat out tells Goku "yeah, I trained harder than ever before". Vegeta gave it his all during that period. He couldn't go as far as Goku because of two reasons: -As stated by Vegeta himself in that same battle, Goku simply has more natural talent. That's why he always end up stronger if they train equally hard. Vegeta stays this and goes to explain that the reason he let himself by "possesed" by Babidi (he says he could've easily resisted the possesion if he wanted) was precisely because he saw how Yamu and Spopobich (the two bald dudes who went to drain Gohan's energy in the tournament) had become so strong thanks to that possesion, so he wanted to take advanatge of that possesion to gain a power boost and catch up to Goku. -The 2nd reason is stated by the end of the Cell saga. Despite using the HTC two times, Vegeta developed the Ascended and Ultra Super Saiyan forms, and despite realizing the later one was useless, he still didn't go beyond that. While Goku only usesd it once, and not only did he also discover those forms, but he went beyond and created the Full-Power Super Saiyan, which surpasses both. During Goku's battle with Perfect Cell, Vegeta is surprised at how far Goku had managed to take the SSJ form, and even calls him a "genius" (I'm not kidding). This, imo, is pretty clear evidence that Goku is simply more efficient when it comes to training, and combined with the previous reason, an explanation of why he developed the SSJ3, while Vegeta could not.

On vegeta being weaker at the end of GT...The blutz ray vegeta used to transform to ssj4 only served as a way for him to transform without a tail. They explained that he closed the gap training to get strong enough to be able to transform in a conversation with bulma about why he wasn't able to transform when goku did before. (His body wasn't ready, aka too weak)

Vegeta has always been commented on as a smart fighter. He knew the limits of USSJ/SSJ Grade 3/whatever you want to call it when Future Trunks didn't without ever having to use it in a fight. Even Goku realized how utterly useless the form would be in an actual fight with a fast foe shortly after gaining it and showing it to Gohan. Goku only ever pushed into SSJ3 because, due to being dead, he had almost endless energy and stamina, thus he could maintain it. When he uses it on Earth, it eats up the remaining amount of time he has left. When he comes back to life, he finds it extremely limiting, as it eats up stamina at an insane rate. Gotenks only ever wanted to gain SSJ3 because, as a kid and as a fusion (which at least for Saiyans makes you stupidly arrogant), he thought it was cool, and would make him cool. He never did the cost benefit analysis. Vegeta was there during the fight with Kid Buu. He saw the weakness of SSJ3 and, much like before did a cost benefit analysis, finding that the form had no merit in a fight. As such, either he never actively worked toward obtaining the form or, if he somehow managed to just gain it through his normal training, he's never bothered to use it. And now for stuff that happened well after this video was made... Goku comments that SSJ2 Future Trunks is on par with an SSJ3, which simply proves that the form is not needed, as with enough training and work on other forms, you can reach, or surpass, SSJ3 in raw power, and without any of the downsides. In games, Vegeta is always dismissive of Gotenks, despite, or perhaps, in spite, of his SSJ3 user status. Frankly, the form has been rendered useless, and yeah, I know, given SSJG and SSJGSS, but I also means in terms of just overall power output versus viability. Goku and Vegeta at base are monsters, which is only boosted by other forms which end up being more stable and less energy hungry. Nobody else has bothered to try for SSJ3 EXCEPT for Caulifa, who is frankly an idiot and wants the form much like Gotenks did; because she thinks it's cool and it'll make her stronger, yet she doesn't know its massive weakness. If/when she ever comes back into the series, and when/if she somehow gains it (through ass pulls and being handed the form, because why work for anything, much like Goten and Kid Trunks), either she'll learn its weakness and never use it again, or she'll be like Gotenks and use it anyway, because fuck the cost benefit analysis, it just makes her super strong for a short period and she'll adopt the same strategy of blitz the shit out of enemies. And we see how well that worked for Gotenks, which is not at all.

I honestly believe that Vegeta has in fact unlocked SSJ 3. As we all kno, even stated by Whis himself, Vegeta is a genius fighter. But u have to remember, SSJ 3 has major flaws. The tremendous toll it takes on ur body, the fact that it uses up so much energy, the fact that it's pretty much only good for short amounts of time, etc. Now Vegeta being the fighting genius that he is, is fully aware of all the draw backs and he just simply chooses not to use the SSJ 3 form. It basically comes down to the cons outweighing the pros and he chooses not to use the form. But in my opinion, Vegeta has the capability of SSJ 3 but chooses not to use the transformation.

Don't forget the biggest part... he wasn't there when he gave the speech to Goten and Trunks

A fun time a night with.Nice one.

I like going back and watching your old videos

Vegeta can't turn into a SSJ3 for the same reason he can't beat Goku -- Goku is the main character. That's pretty much it... like it or not, he will never attain more power because that's just how most animu works.

prophetic...Thundershot was right on the money with Vegeta

I always saw the Golden Great Ape to be more in keeping with the possibility of being the TRUE Super Saiyan form while SS1 to SS3 were more along the lines of broken or 'sub' forms. Why? None of the Saiyans ever have their tails for the vast majority of DBZ. Suddenly, when they have their tails back, an entirely new line of transformations occurs (one that's actually closer to how it was described in the backstory/legend than SS1 to SS3). SS4,at least to me, was simply Goku and Vegeta regaining their 'humanity' and identity when in the true Super Saiyan form (Golden Great Ape) and perfecting it.

I think ssj3 is a dimensional transformation, like Goku in the Other World dimension and Gotenks in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, that's why Gotenks didn't need to unlock the ssj2 form. And you also need to be very strong, that's why Vegeta and Gohan didn't tranform in ssj3 in the Cell Saga, they needed to be stronger at that time.

Because a SSJ3 need %100 potential of a Saiyan bus as Whis said he is so nervous becaus of that he can't use his full potential so he can't go SSJ3.

The reason is that, and this is something DB fans seem to ignore, Goku is more spiritual and enlightened than Vegeta. Goku did far more than training, as can be seen when he lived with Kami for three years, when he trained with Kaio-sama and when he entered the Room of Spirit and Time. Goku realized the true nature of ki, unlike Vegeta who only saw it as combat energy that one manipulated to get stronger. Goku saw ki as the living force that permeates the universe which allowed it to control it better and thus realize his true potential. He managed to do this because he trained with gods and in places of a high mystical nature (Kami's lookout, the afterlife). As the series also explains, Goku had a pure heart, which not only allowed him to reach Super Saiyan but also to train with cosmic beings who accepted him for this reason. Just to put one example, Goku's training with Gohan to reach Full SSJ1 differed from Vegeta's training with Trunks. Vegeta only focused on power and nothing else, while Goku focused on how to control ki better by staying Super Saiyan all the time, showing his mastery of ki as well as his more spiritually enlightened nature, like I said before. By learning the true nature of ki is why he managed to reach Super Saiyan 3. Vegeta, however, never really grasped this due to the life he had, where he depended too much on technology and saw ki (a concept he probably didn't even know about before meeting Goku) as nothing more than power used to become stronger.

Goku's had more near-death experiences which boosted him to the end of the frieza saga, he transformed earlier, and had the extra hyperbolic time chamber training with gohan where he turned SSJ3, while vegeta refused to train with trunks.

Another possibility is that Vegeta didn't want to go SS3. Now initially it might sound absurd to think Vegeta wouldn't want a new level of power, but this actually isn't unprecedented. During the Cell saga, Trunks believes that he's surpassed Vegeta with his Grade 3 Super Saiyan form, while Vegeta only uses Grade 2, later he comes to realize that his father was probably perfectly capable of grade 3, but didn't use it because it had serious drawbacks with speed. Initially in the Buu saga Vegeta just wasn't as strong as Goku, Goku had spent 7 years training with a dead body that didn't tire (with some of the strongest people in the universe, like Pikkon, and the Grand Kai if you count filler as canon. It's possible the Grand Kai even had potential unlocking powers like Elder Kai). Meanwhile, Vegeta was going solo in a gravity chamber. Weight lifting just isn't going to compare to combat for experience gain. But as for why Vegeta didn't ever go SS3 AFTER that, he likely saw its disadvantages when Goku used it with a living body, just as he did with Grade 3 SS and opted to try to maximize his lower forms instead to avoid having to deal with those limitations, Vegeta seems to be the long term future oriented kind of thinker who would consider the future implications of higher forms being more taxing. As for GT, I would suggest that SS4 isn't actually another stage of Super Saiyan, but a new stage of Oozaru. In this form, Goku is more primal and animal like, saying he has trouble controlling himself at that power. What if rather than it being that level of power, it was actually that Goku was just not much better at controlling that form than he was at controlling himself as an Oozaru? Vegeta didn't seem to change his personality at all as a Super Saiyan 4, even proving to have his rationality intact by being the one to suggest fusion, something that he, at his core, doesn't like. Vegeta is also known to remain in control even as an Oozaru. SS4 May just be a completely different kind of transformation, similar to SSGod, that is only coincidentally about 10x stronger than a Super Saiyan 3, rather than being a direct power amplification beyond it; meaning SS4 would have a power multiplier of 4000x base rather than 10x SS3.

Vegeta have the ability to go super saiyan 3 but he heard that super saiyan 3 can't stand a chance against beerus so vegeta didn't bother to think of transforming to ssy3

Strictly speaking, Goku sort of invented the SS3 transformation by pushing to find the strength in his SSJ2 form and carried on pushing into a state that could sustain that power. Vegeta probably has the potential to do the same but doesn't know how to unlock it. As for Gotenks, he was able to quickly pick up other's abilities (like kid Goku with the Kame Hame Ha) and also knew how to unlock the form thanks to Goku. As for GT... the writers probably watched DBZ for fights, DB for story and that's it before putting pen to paper.

I would like to mention Goku had been fighting for quite some time before Vegeta got there so much that he exited the SS4 form after the initial fusion and some running around.

I feel Goku will always be the better fighter because he's always been more open to things. In terms of power, Vegeta and Goku are pretty similar, even though I think Goku is always a step ahead (hence why Vegeta always wanted to fight him so badly, because of pride). But Goku, since he was a kid, always wanted to fight the more powerful person because he wanted to learn. Remember the whole long scene with Mr. Popo when they first met? he always strived to learn from the best because he was fascinated with those stronger than him. Vegeta just wanted to fight them and be arrogant towards them instead of learning. Vegeta is a lone wolf, Goku is better with friends and mentors. If you look at it that way, Vegeta has come further than Goku has, both personality wise and training wise (as he usually trains alone and with not much aide) but Goku is more resourceful and open minded, as he also tries to get stronger to save those he loves while Vegeta for the longest time only did so for his own gain. (which I feel puts a cap on his power until he finds something more powerful, while Goku can continue to become more powerful because of what he wants to protect) Then again, however, as Vegeta grows as a person he could become more open-minded and learn enough to be equal with Goku. At that point, I don't think one could exceed the other if they stayed consistent in training. They're relatively equals in power as I previously stated, in my own take and opinion..

I only watched the first minute and 19 seconds when the guy said, "Vegeta wasn't training." Vegeta is always either training, or fighting, or recovering from fighting and training. When was he not training?

It took all of power to blow himself up when Majin Vegeta fought Majin Buu and I wonder when he got resurrected and fully brought back to life he could've try to recreate that power and focus towards another transformation?

Gotenks is not theoretically a full saiyan. Goten and Trunks are both 1/2 human and 1/2 saiyan. Therefore, this means that when they're fused, he still remains 1/2 human and 1/2 saiyan, as if they fused they would technically add up to be 1 full human and 1 full saiyan, which is impossible for one person; leading me to my point- he would end up being 1/2 human and 1/2 saiyan

Okay so, great points you guys made a lot of good comparisons, the only thing I want to add, and not many people actually thought about this one, but if we look back goku went through training with 100x gravity and got healed once and then got so Pissed he turned super Saiyan for the first time, however, Vegeta couldn't even gain that strength with the same kind of training, he even had to ask bulma's dad to make the gravity even stronger for him, this is also after he got powered up from being revived, plus he couldn't even reach super Saiyan two after a day in the hyperbolic time chamber, where goku did, this concludes that Vegeta cannot level up as easily as goku, he needs a completely and extremely higher level of training in order to reach the next level, this is my biggest point and reasoning for Vegeta not being able to reach super Saiyan 3, he simply would need an extremely high form and level of training compared to goku

Super Saiyan 3 was really just an ode to Goku’s brother, Raditz, since they completely wrote him out after the Saiyan saga.

Thundershot kinda predicted Fukkatsu no F here. Very nice.

Once i heard, that one of the requirements on becoming SSJ3 was to be on a different plain of existence, thats how Goku and Gotenks got to that level.

As for GT, I always took it as Vegita could go SSJ3, probably sometime after Baby, but by the time it was relevant, he needed to go SSJ4 so there was no point in showing it. He just showed up and went "I can go SSJ3, but there's no point in showing you because now I can go SSJ4 too"

In the Manga it is stated by Goku that to achieve ssj3 you must do so in another dimension. Goku achieved ssj3 while dead in the other world, and Gotenks achieved ssj3 while in another dimension, the RoSaT. Vegeta doesn't need to go ssj3 because it puts a huge strain on the body while Ssj2 is much more refined.

yeah I think the main and obvious thing Is that Goku had the enormous benefit of training in a dead body non stop, it's stated how draining the SS3 transformation is

You guys think of Super Saiyan phases in a really linear way when they might not be that way. Super Saiyan 2 was merely exceeding the power of the transformation, while SS3 was a transformation developed by Goku that traded stamina for strength and ki (kind of a Kaioken deal) that didn't translated well into a living body. Toriyama needed new designs to hype the new arcs, but eventually drove the point straight that no other transformation really was better than complete mastery and control of the first one. A trope that he would continue with Whis' training of both Goku and Vegeta on Super and how he teaches them to don't burn his ki so carelessly and get more tactical with his energy consumption, as well as improving their base power and strength and the use and mastery of "God ki".

Honestly, a lot of these questions can be answered with one word. Toriyama. I love DBZ but I won't consider it as this complex show where the explanations for things happening the way they do are based on logic. Everything was probably just a whimsical decision made by the author. Like the other guy said, Vegeta wasn't the main character and that's why he didn't turn SSj3. Simple. It just wasn't needed for the plot.