Why Clone Wars Jedi are WAY Weaker Than Ancient Jedi - Star Wars Explained 

The grandmaster forgot an important lesson from the past. The Sith ALWAYS return. In moving the order to a less battle focused organization she left future Jedi open to power of the Sith and their agents.

As Bane said in The Dark Kight Rises, "Peace has cost you your strength, victory has defeated you". They became lazy and became too peaceful. Si vis pacem, para bellum. If you want peace, prepare for war.

They were more battle hardened. The Jedi of old were fighting the Sith, the Mandalorians, and other powerful enemies continuously. They had to keep their skills sharp in order to keep their edge against these powerful enemies..

I mean all of this can be summed up with "The Jedi of the Prequels Era had fewer opportunities to gain combat experience than Jedi in the past. They were a little too successful in their mediation between the various worlds within the Republic, and didn't have to deal with any invasions from outside Republic space. As a result the Prequel Jedi were a lot weaker than their predecessors."

It’d be my assumption that the Clone Wars Era Jedi could have been weaker due to having being clouded by the dark side. Plus I think the close knit ties with the republic probably didn’t help them either. I think how tight they were with the Republic could have been seen as a hindrance, especially when it comes to their ability to help the weak.

The pact was a big park of the problem, but it was only a PART. Another huge factor was that the temple on Corusant was built over an older Sith site strong in the Darkside. The Jedi did this hoping that they would act as a cork to keep the Dark Side from welling up and negatively impacting the surrounding city/planet. However, whether or not they succeeded in that plan, generations of constant exposure to that nexus gradually weakened their own connection to the Light Side.

KOTOR is set before Old Republic MMO and Kreia states "If you were to face one of the ancient Sith in combat, you would learn that we as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the Old Masters." Just imagine how powerful the ancient sith had to be considering that Nihlus himself could've ended all life in the galaxy and how strong the Jedi had to be in order to stop the Sith of their eras.

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” The Ancient Jedi dealt with Sith on a regular basis, the Clone Wars Jedi had a thousand years of peace and no real experience on how to fight against their ancient enemy

Part of it is also the fact that a Force Wielder’s connection to the Force (and by extension, all the abilities the Force grants them including heightened wisdom) is supercharged by their choices. The more good a Lightsider, Jedi or independent, does, the stronger with the Light they become. And the crueler a Darkaider acts, the more his power in the Dark grows. When we catch up to the Jedi in the prequels, they’ve spent almost a millennia sitting on their hands doing nothing in the face of the non-Sith evils of the Galaxy, like the Hutts, criminal organizations like Black Sun, or the more corrupt aspects of the Republic. Every time they allow evil to persist, in any form, their connection to the Force weakens.

A oversimplified way to look at it is the biggest threats in the clone wars was basically a daily deal in the old Republic. We've seen what a squad of real Mandalorians can do, imagine armies of those with near daily conflicts. The CIS and CW Republic are laughable compared

Let me just say this. One Mandolorian, Jango Fett, killed many Jedi with just his hands. I doubt he couldve pulled that off easily against the old republics jedi.

The Jedi of the Prequels and Clone Wars had the greatest gap between their top members and their average members. They had powerhouses such as Yoda, Mace Windu, Dooku before he went Sith, and Anakin (and they were some of the most powerful in Jedi history). Then they had a bunch of cannon fodder jedi who would fall in combat to a squad of battle droids

I read theories that the Jedi fell because they were too militant, that they had strayed too far from their purpose as peacekeepers. Then there’s the argument here that in fact, they may not have been militant enough. Seems like they were pretty much screwed either way.

Now imagine the prowess and the heights of power that Anakin would accomplish in the Old Republic. Windu and Vapaad would be HIGHLY needed.

I think we need an old republic movie.

Had the jedi honed their combative abilities instead of sitting in their chambers and meditated. They would not have been drawn to the dark because they had so little combative training and discipline to fight toe to toe with sith lords without succumbing to the illusion of quick power via the dark side and been weakened by it further.

That Grand Master’s idea did mostly harm to the Jedi now she was right that they need more restrain but letting them cut combating training back so much had a toll that too harsh to pay. Another reason was the Force both dark and light was more pure in the Era of The Old Repbulic

So, my thought is that the Jedi should have had "subgroups" that focused on different "social" disciplines. Some examples would be one for diplomat focus, one for combat focus, one for healing focus, and so on. This would allow for training and specialization in different forms of "diplomacy" and potentially cater to different abilities that some Jedi might be better at than others.

Doing the right thing is never easy and it's never straight forward. So I don't blame Master Fae Coven for doing what he or she did. The road to tragedy is often paved with the best of intentions and the Jedi of that time as well as the Republic made it possible for their fall a thousand years later.

Conflict strengthens and hardens, peace time erodes strength and hardness. The Jedi spent a millennia assuming they won and just needed to be peace keepers and servants. The Sith hid and spent a Millennia becoming more powerful. I mean watch Maul vs Qui Gon and Kenobi. Qui Gon was strong enough to warrant consideration for the Jedi Council. Qui Gon was bested quite emphatically and Obi Wan only prevailed because of Maul's arrogance at the end. These were two of the Orders best at the time. Revan would be ashamed of the weakness of the order leading up to the Clone Wars era.

Arrogance and lazyness by the time of the clone wars the sith hid so well that the Jedi were arrogant enough to think they was gone and there training for battle wasn’t as focused on

These videos are simply awesome! Keep them coming! Make a lore based on everything about the jedi as well as the sith and everything else there is! Pretty, please!

Excellent analysis. Greatly thought out and an entertaining video.

One issue is that Lucas believed the Republic Era (Clone War Era) Jedi to be the greatest Force users ever...... They were the strongest...... And Palpatine was supposed to take advantage of that fact that their power lead to their arrogance.... and thus, to their defeat....

Actually, funny you show Revan while talking about this. Revan in the middle of one of the largest implosions of the Jedi Order. The implosion started with the Jedi Civil War with Exar Kun, the scorching of Ossus, after which Revan, then the last few members of the orders got themselves killed during the whole Jedi Exile matter. The Jedi Exile's friends and a few others had to rebuild the Jedi Order from scratch. Though, they did a good job, by the time Republic/Sith Empire War (SWTOR) started, the Jedi had a number of heavy hitters.

The two Old Republic examples were bosses and that armor they wear was awesome. Malgus on rhe other hand was a beast, clever too.

Generally I'd disagree on principle that there's a difference based solely on the depictions. Limitation of real life actors, VS animated characters VS video game cinematics are going to show very different styles. Within the culture and history though, you have a point. KOTOR and TOR and the New Sith Wars pre Ruusan were mostly warriors. The Late Republic Jedi Masters were more diplomats and monks over combat training. It's important to note that the New Sith Wars lasted for millenia in part because different Jedi teachings in different enclaves resulted in not insignificant Jedi falling to the dark side and joining the Sith. The wars were extended because the Jedi couldn't keep all members together. Ruusan reformation changed this, centealizing the training of Younglings and barring induction of older Padawan. And the system seemed to have worked for nearly a thousand years, until they broke their own rules and broke their own principle. If a Jedi is not to form attachments, then the Jedi order itself cannot be too attached to the Republic, but they had become so intertwined with the Senate they were doomed to political bickering and corruption. Yoda even fails to warn the Senate of their limitations due to an emerging threat in the Dark side to retain political power among the Senate.

the Jedi were weakened the moment that they failed to produce Darth Bane and Darth Zannah's corpses they did not finish their job that and the fact they started playing games with the senate. in the mandalorian wars the council had the choice not to fight while the Sith were playing games with the Jedi during the clone wars

The Jedi's weakness in the Clone Wars is fully what Bane said in 'The Dark Knight Rises'. "Peace has defeated you". And I think its a stretch that even Anakin, Yoda, Mace, Plo or Obi-wan were at the level of the ancient Jedi. Anakin could have reached that level but he was still far away from it, he probably would have been on that level if he never received the dismemberment injuries and burns but it'd have taken him all his life to get there.

I suspect that the bigger issue is how weakened the jedi capabilities had become in force by the time of prequels. In the old republic era the jedi could heal the wounded, cut down a legion, or use the force to provide insights to turn the tide of battle. During the reformation the jedi they gave up developing these kinds of abilities because they believed it strayed from their beliefs and lead to the darkside. This is the issue the jedi instead of preparing for the next sith war and evolving their abilities in the force to prepare for the next evolution of the sith instead became the enforcers of the galactic republic.

The closest Force Sensitive that could battle the Sith War era could be the Jensaarai. They have the proper armor and not limited to the Jedi's aversion to use Dark Side Force techniques. Anyway What If the Yuuzhan Vong invaded the galaxy after the Sith Empire sacked Coruscant in KOTOR. With the Sith war in KOTOR, both Sith&Republic being weakened by their war, it's the best opportunity for the Vongs to invade the galaxy.

By the Clone wars the Jedi had weakened for two specific reasons. Firstly the Rule of Two Sith meant that the Jedi went from being the front line defenders to the Senate's glorified police force, which made them less effective as Commanders and Warriors in the Clone Wars, roles that were once their bread & butter, and caused the Republic to lose faith in them. The second reason is that the Order's dogmatic view meant that the Jedi had to act and train in a way to produce an ideal Jedi rather than the kind of Jedi its members could have been. The Battle of Geonosis shows this fault as so many Jedi practised the Sixth Lightsaber form 'Niman' not because of its practicability but because it lacked the Order's criticism for Dark Side tendencies. And it resulted in multiple Jedi being killed not by Sith, but mass produced droids. Now look at the Jedi during the Empire, Cal, Kanen and Ezra, and Ahsoka in a way, they weren't fully trained Jedi or had access to the Oder's secrets but they knew what they needed to know to serve the people around them and they made an impact because they developed as Jedi in their own way. Whereas so-called true Jedi like Yoda and Obi-Wan spent the rest of their lives in hiding

i think it was a wise decision to focus more on peace, however they failed to adapt to war when it came. whether or not they went too far into peace i am unsure of however it was still a good decision to walk towards peace. its not about if it help the jedi its about if it helps the galaxy, that is what the jedi are for

they really should have kept more combat training in their order while using it as a means of mediation. Order 66 would have been a joke at that point.

The Jedi were obsessed with balance but never actually balanced anything they was always fully one side like yes it’s great to try to talk things out but how are you going to protect anyone if savage oppress can just pick up a saber and tear through you

Soooo good!!!

What is sad is that, although they decided to be scholars and researchers, they were actually focusing politics, since the Old Republic also have jedi consulars focused on the study of the Force, seers, archives and Holocrons and active exploration of ruins and planets. I think that even in meditation they were lacking compared to the Old Republic jedi, so they became the republic diplomats and ambassadors, not Force researchers and meditation experts.

One thing that I question is that what happened to all of that momentum from Ven Zillow when he was spinning, I would assume it would continue though he could freeze up from the pain

I think the part about Savage and Adi Gallia was a bit of a given mistake to send someone like her to deal with Maul & Savage regardless of the era. I mean, just look at the differences in size between her and Savage or even Maul for that matter. I know that Saber skill & The Force can be equalizing factors, but it can only go so far when essentially the nature of Jedi/Sith combat is typically melee style sword (lightsaber) fighting with martial arts (hand to hand fighting or hand/foot to head, ribs, knees, etc) thrown in when an opening arises that cant be exploited by the saber for whatever reason but can be by a punch or kick, and Force push/pull, throwing objects, lightning, etcetera, but Adi Gallia (to my knowledge) wasnt THAT powerful/skilled in the Force or lightsaber dueling to make up for the physical strength and power differences between her and Savage so eventually she just got overwhelmed by sheer strength after she couldn't exploit a breakthrough with her lightsaber, and her kick to Savages knee didnt even hardly phase him. Edit: My point is, essentially, that any Jedi & Sith/Dark sider of any era with the same differences, in the same or similar situation/scenario would likely result in the same outcome as theirs did, but thats just my opinion though, dont know if anyone else thinks the same or not.

The Old Republic era Jedi were beasts forged by constant war/skirmishes/etc and taking part in Republic military operations and having frequent contact with Sith. If you couldn't fight, you wouldn't live long. Ironically, I think Banes rule of Two weakened the Jedi significantly. They didn't have other force users with completely opposite philosophies to cut their teeth against frequently in combat. Just the occasional dark jedi. They grew complacent, while the Sith continued to become monstrous power houses in the shadows, able to steep themselves in the dark side with little to no interruption and evolving into complete freaks that 99.9% of Jedi had no chance against.

As my simple mind sees it. Old republic jedi knights are warriors because they are constantly getting pulled into war. Whereas the clone war aera jedi are peace keepers who where dragged into a war they where never trained for. Same as the soldiers of the 2 aeras old republic troopers not only had to fight sith troopers but siths, dark jedi, mandalorians and the forgotten empire armies. The clones faught well against droids but seem to struggle against other organic troopers/ militias

Honestly I think that an old republic series would be an absolute banger especially since we have so many details of what happened before the original movies and because the fights would look ten times more incredible ( not that there weren't any good ones in the movies)

Hey coach. It's been a long time since I have commented. Your channel is my favorite basketball channel up there with Thinking basketball 🏀. 3 requests: please do a deep dive into explaining movement without the basketball 🏀. 2) please do a break down on the Pistons, although I am a Knickerbockers fan, I think they have enough talent to win NBA Finals Championship this year or next year. Why isn't it working? They have the coach. Second time that they have hired a coach of year winner right after being fired by his previous team. I don't think that they are tanking. Why have they lost 14 in a row? Last game they were losing by 1 point to the historic offense that is Haliburton and the Pacers entering the 4th quarter. The Pacers scored the average score of the first 3 in the 4th. They were able to keep up with the these world beaters for three quarters and they have lost 14 in row? That doesn't add up. 3) give my Knickerbockers some love of your deep analysis at some point during this season pretty please. I know you have a relationship with Thibodeaux but to what degree I am not sure . Even if it is on one of these myriad of Knicks RU-vid channels. What they running might be nice.

I believe, that they should have split the Jedi Order into two Fractions (nothing they would have reasonably done, considering their Past). Maybe not Factions, but an inner Group, directly under the Council, that would train in the "Old" Path to keep the Teachings alive and to be send to High Risk Missions. Like "We send a Jedi Master and his Jedi-Knight Padawan, they died, Risk levels. Dooku would have fit in there perfectly, because it would be a Reminder, that the Dark Side always Exists, as does the Light Side. The Masters of that Group could have doubled as Chiefs of Security or Advisors and be a last Bastion of Defense for the Temples they are assignd to.

I think that if balance is the goal, then balance is what should be strived for; I think it was Niels Bohr that was one of the scientists who strongly furthered our understanding if molecular science, and was also a gold medal Olympic athlete. One example of how you can specialize (he had specific Olympic events and his area of expertise in science) without fully limiting yourself, and how you can have balance, at least in my opinion.

I agree. Ancient Jedi fought wars constantly. Sith mostly,Mandalorians. They were complete test. Jedi swayed too much in peace. It's ok they studied scholarship and peace but they should have also study combat,lightsaber training,tactics,it doesn't matter if it was military tactics they should have learn that. That was big mistake. May the Force be with you too,see you soon

Someone else argued that the Jedi kept getting more powerful all the time while the Sith also did by definition. I don't know what's correct, but this makes much more sense and seems less stupid. That guy had these videos ranking everyone on both sides by power, and in spite of carefully considering everything, this one thing made them just be ranked by place in the timeline.

Another reason why Old Republic is the best! Going to spend a shit ton of time playing SWTOR around the holidays

Sounds like they went to far to the peace side of their training and probably just believed that Sith were gone for good so they slack off on that part. For me no matter what you do you should always try to keep balance in your life don’t just be all about work take time to kick back but by the same token don’t spend all the time kicking back like I said balance anyway have good one

This was the whole point of Darth Banes plan…reference the trilogy

We need more Cal Kestis lore similar to the Galen Marek lore that we have

Isn't it as simple as their narrowing of focus on the force and extreme de-specialization? All Jedi were taught like Consular with guardian accents in the Clone Wars era. Barely any pure paths (guardians separate from consular), no proper enemy to keep them sharp, and a wee bit of arrogance

You should do a what if video on if Kenobi was born in the old republic

If they had focused on being one with the force instead of focusing on politics they would have not been so weak in the Clone Wars era.

I do think sometimes the best answer is that it was written or animated that way. One is a fantastic game trailer for an mmorpg that was meant to sell subscriptions. The other is a children's tv show. Different forms of media for different audiences.

That depends, in the films the jedi were people that could be overcome by bugs using a gun. In the 2d animated show they could fight Goku. In the 3d show even young children were several leagues above the common jedi in the movies.

-10:17 I believe, that has to do something about it, gone to far what they were attended for, as peace keepers

Its ironic really as meetra once asked treira about her views on the old jedi and sith and it was just as great a comparison. They just don't make em like they used to anymore.

Only a fool isn’t ready for war.

They were forced to end military training by Ruusan Reformation Act. Which obviously had an effect on their skills and abilities, as they became diplomatic assistants and negotiators. Even their roles in the Watchmen corps was diminished. On top of this, was 1000 years of complacent ideology believing the Sith went extinct. Here the Sith did a fantastic job of seeking out and quelling anyone who dared to dabble in the Dark Side, well before the Jedi found out about it.

Nice image of Revan with a green lightsaber that was.

I remember Kreia saying something like current Jedi/Sith were only playing at their parts in comparison to the past Masters. The Jedi of the Clone Wars era were much weaker and too political as they went from warriors of light to tools of the Senate. As sad as it was, Order 66 or even just the Civil War was what the Order needed to grow from stagnation.

Known issue with the clone wars jedi... even though they did get stronger for actually practicing and dualing... they were much weaker because they concentrated on being not over-powering to the rest of the galaxy, and the galaxy took advantage of that too... the galaxy needed the jedi to be warriors but still be the good guys... when the galaxy forgot how bad the sith were, that was when they ruined the universe with grand power.

As long as Disney has Star Wars I won't expect to ever see any content like this in live action

I don't think it was necessarily Fae Coven's ideas that weakened the jedi so much, but more the fanatical dogmatism to those ideas. They became too close minded and when a galaxy wide war broke out they were unable to adapt because they were too tied to peace.

Is there a novelization that contains Darth Nihilus's story?

Where does all this cool combat footage come from? What am I missing out on????

Dooku and palpatine were no weaklings. Maul was being prepared to become a lord eventually and even Asaji ventress ( in clone wars animation) was extrocised by sidius for becoming " too powerful" Of course it s very difficult for most jedi to be on par with killing machines. Being of a paragon of good is very difficult. See paladins in dnd. It s very hard to be both a great warrior and a peacekeeper/ maker. Also the jedi were complacent and were recruiting every random force sensitive infant in the galaxy ( thus putting their average strength at a far lower score. On the other hand both Windu and Yoda were enough or even more than a match for the culmination of sithhood which was Sidius himself. The maybe strongest sith ( gifted in many ways in the dark side) the galaxy had seen for centuries

I like to think that Plo Koon would be a worthy old republic Jedi. He’s wise, and strong. Debatably even the top 5 of the clone wars Jedi order as far as strength. Especially since he was one of 2 to defeat yoda in a sparring match.

Also, Ancient Republic Jedi would have been able to successfully defend the Temple against an attack from the Clones.

"Peace has cost you your strength, victory has defeated you." - Palpatine probably

It's always the Jedi struggle. Confront the Dark to much and 9/10 that Jedi falls. Don't confront the Dark and if you get to a situation where it confronts you, 9/10 you fall. One of my favorite lore bits from KOTOR is that Revan was able to turn some Jedi just by bringing them to places like Malachor, the sheer Dark Side energies would corrupt those that did not know how to deal with it. That tightrope, of learning how to face the Dark if it comes to them but not being seduced by it, it's just so hard to do. There's a reason characters like Yoda or (canon) Meetra are so rare, genuinely light side users that directly confront the dark and never bend.

I like that there was a lot of content to talk about. However, I think you need to display some of your text on screen as a visual aid. In the future, I think you could give copyright credit in each frame, for the artists.

Wasn’t kit fisto pretty formidable? Wasn’t it explained that in the duel with palpatine he was holding him off until he sensed anakins turn? Which then broke his focus. Overwhelming him like some of the more force attuned Jedi during order 66?

Its the same with the Sith and Mandalorians. Their old republic counterparts were just on a whole other level and even then Darth Traya said that when compared the sith her and her group were like mere children

After 1000 straight fighting the new sith.. I don't blame em for completely changing things...but they should've kept at least their saber skills at high level, if Dooku would've listened to Yoda,he would've of been one of the best duelists of all time

Thats exactly why different members should have different specialities, you can give the order a new more peace related focus, but still there should be some members (like the temple guards) that are more trained in combat, so if the sith returned, they would have a better chance to defeat them.

Because the ancient jedi had balance in the force, they didn't always dismiss the dark side and only focus on the light they, followed both

This is something that I have contemplated for a long time. I feel that the Jedi did become too dedicated to peace after the days of the Old Republic. This was a big mistake, in my opinion. The Jedi should have kept the same martial philosophy from the days of the Old Republic. They would have been much stronger by the time Sidious came around and attempted to execute Order 66. As was stated here, blaster wielding opponents were jokes to the Jedi of old. Had the Jedi been like Ven Zallow and his contemporaries during Order 66, they would have owned the Clones.

Jeti became complacent. I should’ve immediately changed your training back to the old ways once they knew the sith were a foot 🦶

I feel it was the dogma of the Jedi. They went away from allowing their members to explore the Force and their combat ability. It was as Yoda stated, "Too sure of themselves they are." Arrogance and hubris. The thinking that the lightsaber was enough to have one's enemy surrender.

Heck Yeah!

Experience fighting Sith and Mandos and the many coflicts in the galaxy probably helped

Strength is a necessity there will always be conflict

Alot of the dwindling of their power was due to the Ruusan Reformation and its dearming being a direct elimination of the Jedi Lords insane power at the time. Believing the Sith exterminated was another huge factor.

I don't think this video or star wars in general elaborates on the advantages training for peace more than training for war. Its always mysterious. "Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can ever imagine." Star Wars is framed for conflict. Its in the name. Here's a real world disadvantage for always training for war: People who fight all the time can be easily goaded to fight each other. They eat their own. An eye for an eye leaves both parties blind. To constantly compete they might take drugs to further screw with their judgment... leading to more mistakes.

The jedi forgot that you only have peace when you have those strong enough to keep the peace

You can study peace all you want, but if you aren't prepared to keep it you are no threat at all. I believe it was Theodore Roosevelt who said "Speak softly, and carry a big stick." No truer words have been spoken, and it really should've applied to the Jedi. Fae Coven would have done well to keep that perspective in her mind when writing her book.

You’re absolutely right . I believe that the Jedi and sith during the time of the Old Republic were stronger than the Jedi and sith of the clone wars era , was because both factions were constant battle with each other and never had time to rest while during the clone wars , the Jedi became too comfortable in the so called peace era . If you really think about it . There’s not a lot of sith during the clone wars , yes there’s Darth Maul , count dooku ,Vader , savage operas and assaj ventress , Darth sidious , you could say Barris was also a sith but that’s up for debate . I think the reason why there are only a few sith during the clone wars era and only two during the imperial era , is because of the events that happened on korrben when Darth Revan left the sith empire , Bastia , Revans apprentice/wife says that the sith kill each other of what little power they possess , and if you really think about it, the Sith are their own destruction . Because all they do is Backstabbed each other and kill each other . While the sith can not really be destroyed because the sith is more of a religion then say a group of people or a race of people . It was just a religion that Darth siduous and Darth Vader follow . Same as the Jedi .

In the words of lord bane the wise "peace has cost you your strength... victory has defeated you..." Then proceeds to break batm...shaak it's back

I mean. They had enough data on the old republic to be prepared. They was just naive and stubborn.

A few years ago I read that an average ancient Jedi would have been able to dismantle most members of the Clone Wars Jedi Council. MAYBE Windu could put up a fight but the only two I think may have any real chance were Yoda.

"Blaster wielding opponents were no threat"...mandalorians left the chat

Not sure if this is true or not, but weren't blasters a lot weaker in the past as well? For some reason i was thinking the blasters of the far past were weaker in power compared to modern era ones. Which could be a different way to look at how the Jedi and Sith dealt with blaster wielders.

Thank you for this video I’ve been asking everyone why are the Sith more powerful than the Jedi and this is the only answer I’ve found. I do appreciate this video. So back in the day all the way till now the reason the Sith are stronger than the Jedi is training. When I say training I of course mean being taught how to fight why to fight how to use your weapons, how to use the force in its entirety, understanding your enemy understanding yourself , having the correct mindset having the correct purpose,and mission. Is this the correct summary of your video and explanation?

I think that it's a matter of training, and not being honed by combat. They didn't have to push themselves, so they didn't. Look at Obi-Wan's comparative performances in Phantom Menace, even at the start of the Clone Wars, and his performance in Revenge of the Sith and in Kenobi. He goes from raw talent but otherwise trained more or less as you'd expect for a late Republic era Jedi, to one of the greatest swordsmen in Galactic history. I'd honestly give him even odds against powerhouses like Revan, Malak, and Malgus. After all, he twice absolutely *brutalised* Darth Vader, who was an even more powerful version of Malgus (to the point where Sidious himself drew the comparison), and struck down Maul for the last time in a matter of seconds. There's a reason that Vader, near the height of his powers on the Death Star, treated him very cautiously despite his obvious ageing under Tatooine's suns. Likewise, another key indicator is Ahsoka. She's a war Padawan, trained by two of the greatest duellists of the era, and despite being a teenager, she's capable of duelling evenly with Ventress and Grievous, who both killed Jedi Knights and Masters, and ultimately dominated her fight with Darth Maul at the age of 17. She later toyed with Inquisitors, who were fully fledged Knights before Falling (if not especially impressive ones), killing one while unarmed, and is the only one other than Obi-Wan to really go toe to toe with Vader (Luke fought him twice - the first time, he was toying with Luke and ended the fight the moment Luke annoyed him by getting a lucky shot in. The second time, he really desperately wanted to die and saw death as the best way to spare Luke). And unlike some, I do not subscribe to the theory that Maul was any less powerful after his bisection, but rather was simply weakened by lack of practice, a gap he made up. Now, Ahsoka was talented, but she was forged in fire. For me, she is an exemplar of how the Jedi Order was hardening (and not always for the better), becoming more and more powerful in the combat arts. They didn't necessarily have the knowledge and experience of the Great Galactic War Jedi, but the younger Jedi in particular were lining up reasonably well with most Revan-era Jedi. The older ones, like Adi Gallia, had habits to unlearn. Additionally, a few factors. 1. Dooku was one of the greatest swordsmen in galactic history, full stop. For pure technical skill, he might have been the very greatest. He was casually dispatching Jedi Masters when he was past 80 years old, and while Anakin, a prodigy, overwhelmed him onboard the Invisible Hand, I'm certain that if he was even 10 years younger, if not 20, he would have gutted Anakin. He was also an absolute powerhouse; strong enough in the Force to toss ROTS Obi-Wan aside while holding off Anakin Skywalker in a fight he planned to lose (he didn't expect the backstab from Sidious), and deadly enough that Plagueis considered him as an alternative apprentice when he hadn't even originally wanted to take Sidious save for his sheer potential, and Sidious genuinely feared him, not daring to teach him more than Dark Side philosophy and Force Lightning. In short, practically NO ONE in ANY era could have matched him in a fair fight. 2. You've picked two of the absolute best swordsmen of their time, masters in a time of masters. Your point is valid, but a little distorted. 3. Ventress lacked the subtle skills, but her sabre skills were formidable. Like Maul, she was trained exclusively for combat in the way the Old Republic Jedi were, with an obvious Dark Side twist. More to the point, she was incredibly powerful - in a despairing rage she managed to Force Choke both Anakin and Obi-Wan at once, and they couldn't break her grip. And she was only growing stronger. Sidious was genuinely afraid of how powerful she was becoming, and rightly so. 4. Yes, Savage is a brute, but his style is optimised to his advantages - he's armoured to cover his defensive deficiencies, he's wielding a sabre staff that lends itself to sheer brute force, and his physical strength is unmatched. It's like how Anakin hammered through Dooku's defence on the Invisible Hand: technique is all very well, but if someone who's much bigger and stronger can bash away at your defence, then you're going to be in trouble. When you've got someone compact and powerful like Obi-Wan who can somewhat equalise that, then Savage is in trouble, losing an arm for his pains. And remember, even Sidious preferred to fight him separately from Maul on Mandalore, always making sure to separate the two when he could, before disposing of Savage. Now, Savage wasn't a massive challenge for him, but he wasn't someone even Sidious could hold off with a single sabre.

Would be amazing if Disney would take interest into the Old republic era and start making movies out of it, it would be the best "reboot" ever for Star Wars

Yes I can see how the new policies harmed the Jedi when they had to become warriora again They lost so much changing their ways. If they hadn't maybe Sidious would not have taken so advantage of them

All i can think of is everybody, compared to Satele Shan.. I'd love to see a trilogy about her rise to Jedi Master...

The dark side had weaned the jedis ability to use the forces. ( episodes two )