Why did Gandalf Help Thorin? | Lord of the Rings Lore | Middle-Earth

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On a fateful night in the busy town of Bree, Gandalf came across Thorin, and out of this meeting, the quest for Erebor would start to take shape. Why did Gandalf decide to help the Dwarves in their quest to reclaim Erebor? Did he simply want to kill Smaug or did he have his own agenda? And was this somehow related to the Necromancer of Dol Guldur?
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Опубликовано:

27 янв 2023

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Комментарии : 70

@nanoglitch6693 Год назад

It's really impressive how Tolkien was able to completely retrofit everything from The Hobbit into LotR. He must've had some sense of his larger story when he was writing it.

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

Yeah there are actually some changes between the very first editions of the Hobbit and later releases (particularly around the cave of Gollum) to make the story fit better with the LOTR.

@mattgrandich3977 Год назад

This plan to help Thorin Oakenshield just shows Gandalf’s role as the grand strategist in Middle-Earth for the forces of Good.

@redpandarampage2191 Год назад

Smaug allied with Sauron is a terrifying thought. Would have been game over.

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

Yeah, though it would have been fantastic to see a dragon in the Lord of the Rings trilogy 😂

@Midknight0122 Год назад

@@GeekZoneMT Smaug at Pelenor Fields would haev been mad, Minas Tirith wouldn't have had a living soul in it by the time Aragorn got there.

@AndreasSelzer Год назад

I do not know if it was even Tolkien's original plan, either way he was smart enough to be able to link the plot of The Hobbit with the overall story of Middle-Earth.

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

Yeah it's impressive how he managed to piece it together so seamlessly

@Zantides Год назад

I guess it'd have failed without bilbo/ a hobbit due to the fact smaug hated the dwarfs with a passion and would become furious if they entered his hall.

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

Yeah he did smell the Dwarves near the entrance though, so it does make me wonder why Bilbo was so significant. I guess perhaps it was simply foresight on Gandalf's end :)

@michaelkenny6496 Год назад

I feel like the Dwarves always get the short-end of the stick, so its fun to think that the All Mighty Sauron's path to defeat all started with a chance meeting between a helpful wizard and an angry dwarf

@phoule76 Год назад

It was a heck of a gamble to wake up the dragon.

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

Yeah, it really paid off though!

@phoule76 Год назад

@@GeekZoneMT one wonders if Gandalf had some intuition, prophecy or insider knowledge, as it were, that the plan would work. like the runes on Thorin's map only being visible on the night they visited Elrond, etc., just like the dreams sent to the Steward's sons in FotR sending Boromir to Rivendell at the exact time Legolas went there to report that Gollum had escaped, and Gimli to report that Dain had refused a ring...

@charliefingerhut8935 10 месяцев назад

Gandalf is really taking a people centric approach to countering Sauron

@kushberry6679 Год назад

This is so weird. Today I was just thinking about why Gandalf decided to get so involved with Thorin and the rest of the company and now I get a video explaining it. First time watching your channel, nice video!

@LandStrider23 Год назад

Always an excitement when GeekZone has a new upload. Cheers!

@SethTheProphet Год назад

Another good video, GeekZone. 🤓 Will you explore what lies east of Mordor and Harad in a future video? There are many places in Middle-Earth that are not spoken of much.

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

Cheers mate! Yeah I've got a ton planned and I'm hoping to cover a location or character history in my next video :)

@nickcruz8748 Год назад

Extremely interested to hear his take on those regions as well!

@gavhenrad Год назад

Thanks for the vid mate. Interesting stuff!

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

Cheers man! :D

@Antviolence Год назад

I'm afraid I'm not well read enough to have an educated opinion, but I find it hard to belive that Sauron would attempt an all out alliance with Smaug. He'd never do it with the intent of sharing any long lasting power with the dragon, and he's not dumb so he would realize that Smoug would be very likely to see right through any subterfuge. At most I think he might try to reach some minor mutual agreement that might seem to give both parties some short-term benefits, with both being able to step back from the agreement at any point, with the other party perhaps acting indignant, but without too much honest surprise.

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

Oh I definitely agree Roland, I imagine this alliance would be short term and mutually beneficial (and Sauron would not see Smaug as an equal partner in it). To be honest I find it really interesting that Tolkien mentioned how Smaug would come to Sauron's aid in Dol Guldur. I used to think that Smaug's selfish and greedy nature would give him no reason to help Sauron, so it does make me wonder what level of control Sauron had over him, or what he could possibly offer to entice him.

@daareondemon1899 Год назад

Well if I remember my history of middle earth, Morgoth (Sauron's master), created the dragons as a tool of destruction. I believe that Sauron wasn't powerful enough or had enough respect of dragons to rule over them, though it could be likely that Sauron may of eventually made a deal with Smaug sometime during the LOTR timeline as gold and riches would mean little compared to ultimate power, also he may of had a greater chance as his power was greater during the war of the ring and if he obtained the ring, it is possible that he may of been able to force Smaug into submission.

@istari0 Год назад

@@GeekZoneMT Sauron was a master manipulator unlike any other in Middle-Earth at that time and likely second only to Morgoth. I don't think it would have been terribly difficult for him to find a way to appeal to Smaug's inherent desire for even greater riches and treasure. And I think Smaug would have easily seen the benefit of having an ally of some sort in Dol Guldur as opposed to having even more enemies around.

@Enerdhil Год назад

@@GeekZoneMT But would Smaug leave his mountain of wealth to get more? Could he trust Sauron to not steal it from under his nose? Sauron would care little for the Orcs that would die as a result of such treachery.

@masrr3678 Год назад

@@EnerdhilSauron did not seek riches, he wouldn't care to steal Erebors gold

@kiffermachon Год назад

Glad to have your voice back

@jssweden Год назад

Glad to hear your voice again, you're a good storyteller

@Steven-op5zv Месяц назад

"... how wise Gandalf [Tolkien] was to align the free peoples against Sauron through their own different objectives." YES!

@sageofcaledor8188 Год назад

Great video! Personally, I think Smaug would not be interested in working with Sauron unless Sauron would have given him several concessions.

@ethanwalker7865 Год назад

What kind of concessions do you think? Did Smaug want anything besides treasures that Sauron would not concede? The power to lay dragon eggs?

@sageofcaledor8188 Год назад

@@ethanwalker7865 Treasure would be the primary factor. Also first choice on magical power. Some of the rings of power.

@Enerdhil Год назад

I agree that Smaug would never work with Sauron. Sauron is not Morgoth. The Dragons owe Sauron no allegiance. Plus, Smaug had his mountain of wealth and would have been content to sleep on it till Kingdom Come or Dagor Dagorath, whichever came first. Dale would never again be populated and Smaug only destroyed Lake Town because Bilbo and the Dwarves were enraging him. So Gandalf's plan worked but if they had done nothing, I doubt things would have been worse.

@SenoritaJes Год назад

Wonderful video!!! Thank you!

@daareondemon1899 Год назад

where is gandalf? for I much desire to speak with him

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

I am going to see so much of this 😂

@TarMody Год назад

Gandalf is kind of making the right moves with the right pieces on the chessboard. A strategist analyst who can foresee the consequences of making or not making a move and put them into practice.

@muirmatthew Год назад

Great video

@beyonddaylight5556 Год назад

1. Stir up shit 2. Have a laugh at Bilbo's expense 3. Maaaaybe get rid of a dragon or whatever.

@christoph11987 Год назад

4 minutes and I am just the fourth one! Anyway, I am so glad to watch another video from you!

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

You're welcome buddy!

@leornendeealdenglisc Год назад

Hail, Gandalf.

@jeffsnyder7290 Год назад

great presentation.

@MsMaxx55 Год назад

Thank you for your work and thoughts. Black arrows would have been mass produced

@John--vj5ef Год назад

Thanks!

@shanenolan5625 Год назад

Cheers, mate ( Karl)

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

You're welcome Shane! :)

@bfyguy Год назад

I mean Gandalf was still technically a demigod who seemed to have some kind of observer(Fringe series) way of seeing how changing timelines would affect everything else in existence. With a few unplanned happy accidents here and there ;)

@BenGras Год назад

Im happy you’re back and I like hearing your voice again (even though the voice actor you had was talented! I just got used to your voice).

@TheMarineIguanaStudios Год назад

_Sauron_ : **playing 9-dimensional chess** _Gandalf_ : **playing 144-dimensional chess** _Eru_ : **playing TREE(3)-dimensional chess** (The events of the late Third Age, abridged).

@Steven-op5zv Месяц назад

Gandalf & Eru were playing something more like poker, since they both gave more weight to the free wills of their instruments.

@dr.oracle786 Год назад

I have finished reading LOTR and Hobbit . Now what should I read The salmarillion or Unfinished Tales. I have heard Salmarillion is very hard to deal with... Plz. give suggestions as you may like.

@WillOfFiree Год назад

Tell me where is Gandalf, for i much desire to speak with him.

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

Cheeky Sauron

@danielshannon167 Год назад

It would have been interesting to see what the fate of the ring would be if Smaug was able to kill Bilbo when he snuck in the cave or even ate him. Do you think Sauron would have gotten a hold of it or would it have been lost to the mountain of treasure?

@zacharyhawley1693 Год назад

Smaug would have been corrupted quickly by it.

@rysiii811 Год назад

I always preferred the hobbit. It seemed to me that its by a ton much more likely for a dozen of dwarves to pursue their lost capital of greed than for a various races to unite against evil. If you want gimli in, pay him with a gemstone or something. If you want Legolas, make it appealing for him. Not just "oh there's evil, lets mess it up". That never fit with me for I am aware that very few human beings would go for that. I know there was much deeper story in there, various strategical goals for rohan or gondor. But there was nothing for the dwarf or the elf, no motivation worth dying for imho. Especially back in Rivendell when it was decided (after that being a man of a word or dedication to quest agreed upon might play a bigger role)

@sweeperboy Год назад

I don't think it was a case of just messing up evil though. Sauron sooner or later would have got the Ring back, and in doing so he would have become so powerful that he would have plunged the whole of Middle Earth into darkness. There were no longer any armies great enough to take on Sauron directly - with the Ring or not but especially not with the Ring...so there would be no repeat of the Last Alliance defeating Sauron on the battlefield. I would have thought for the likes of Legolas, Gimli and others, avoiding the enslavement of Middle Earth would be motivation enough.

@rysiii811 Год назад

@@sweeperboy to verify that you just need to ask around you how much oneself would be willing to sacrifice to save the planet from, say, global warming and killing the ecosystem. I dont think you would find 12 that would say to sacrifice their lifes in thraumatic struggle if you asked 10 000 people. This is what I mean. If they win, they get some generic good deed feeling along with thrauma from Boromir and many others dead along the way, maybe lifelong wounds, both physical or mental, maybe even death along the way and failure. Everything else and everybody around them would meanwhile carry on with their lifes undisturbed (like elves from beyond the misty mountains, tons of ents, dwarves etc). Who would take up such a burden just for things to be the same they were?

@Steven-op5zv Месяц назад

Honor/shame is a powerful currency in many cultures & civ.'s, very much in circulation in Tolkien's Third-Age Middle-Earth. Legolas was the crown prince in the government that let Gollum escape. Once Legolas knew enough about the One Ring, his own legitimacy, as well as his father's, was on the line. Add that to Legolas's age in sun years and the long, direct, only-briefly-interrupted war that Sauron & Ringwraiths waged against the Greenwood/Mirkwood elves, out of the base at Dol Guldur. Gimli was not an elder or titled leader in Erebor, and his father Glóin was not in an hereditary position. Gimli's motivation to join up, in his stage of maturity and frame of mind at the Council of Elrond, could very well have been the chance at helping reduce the severity and/or duration of the war he already knew was coming to his home.

@aqf235 Год назад

So does Gandalf's plan include the sacrifice of Lake-town? Because without that you don't kill Smaug.

@Steven-op5zv Месяц назад

Without Bard you don't kill Smaug. Lake-Towners' blood from the destruction of their town was on Lake-Town elders' hands, and Thror's, and on Smaug's claws & inner throat. Lake-Town's families' elders were choosing at the time to tolerate, or get short-sighted benefit from, short-sighted leadership and a status quo of limited prosperity. Everyone knew Smaug was still there. Anyone who believed Smaug was afraid of flying over water would have been dangerously ignorant. Lake-Town's leaders, if they truly believed Thorin & Co. had only a tiny chance of success, should have ordered an evacuation instead of a feast, and should have stirred up the people's anger (evacuation would have helped) to send men to fight alongside the company to raise the chances and make sure Thorin kept his word. Bard would still have figured out how to draw Smaug into the range of a black-arrow bow.

@yodaslovetoy Год назад

For money and the lolz, mostly money though....

@GeekZoneMT Год назад

Respect a Wizard's gains

@zacharyhawley1693 Год назад

If you want to be callous. It was simple pragmatism. Find someone to take care of the dragon problem before the dark lord sends an envoy. If you want a nicer one. Because the dwarves did not deserve to be exiled like they were because of that accursed ring of power.

@istari0 Год назад

No need to pick one reason or another as both of them are true.