Why Did KLM Choose the A350 Over the 787? 

The A350 is saddled with an engine that has a premature life on the wing. For the Trent XWB engine on the 350, the time between overhauls is premature. HPT; ( High Pressure Turbine ) blades and IPC; (Intermediate Compressor ) blades do not last as long as designed. Some only last 2,000 - 3,000 cycles with an on-wing time of only three years in many instances. For the current line-up of Trent 900, 1000 & XWB; these engines struggle to go 4 years before they need to be removed for overhaul. The EP3 build standard for the Trent 900 which RR refuses to improve needs an overhaul every 4 to 5 years, or about 3,500 cycles which is premature for an engine which has been in service since 2008. Abnormal wear to engine blades in the IPC of engines. Rolls-Royce previously had to take action after abnormal wear was spotted in its Trent 1000 family. This saw many aircraft grounded, pending engine checks, and maintenance. Rolls Royce is treading lightly after a previous issue affecting its Trent 1000 engine cost airlines billions of dollars. Three variants of this engine have been affected by corrosion issues. On another note, Al Nippon and Air New Zealand have dropped RR engines to power their future 787 orders in favor of the superior GEnx engines which are outselling RR by a margin of almost three to one. More airlines are likely to follow this trend.

bless, another salty Boeing and GE fan, no other reason for your comment@@John-nc4bl

betterhelp have a terrible track record

Betterhelp have done terrible things to the private data and sold it all to advertisers. Do you really thrust these guys?

@@Hi-hw8tl still surprised some youtubers still work with them

The only right answer! All the political BS is hilarious. Airlines don’t care about politics.

@@VeniVidiAjax Airlines do.. literally the biggest shareholders of Air France-KLM are the French and Dutch governments.

@@SQERDOMOONLIGHTyet they have been buying Boeing until now. Airbus didn’t just pop out of thin air.

Thanks for the answer mate, you just saved 12 minutes of my life :)

@@ertugciftci so you bought the Airbus? Excellent choice

Yea

However, if they are killing the a330 fleet you could expect them to do the same to the 787 as these are direct competitors (and the 787 / a350 are not)

@@jpazinho their 787 are too new to retire

He mentioned that.

​@@davidesquer1312and yet, airlines plan their fleets on a spectrum of 10/15 years (minimum)...no orders of 787 signal KLM is moving on a different direction and way from both the a330 (which they are replacing) and the 787 in the future...obviously the 787s wont be retired anytime soon...but I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years time there was no increase in the number of 787 on service at KLM

Totally agree. In B787 and B777 (in 3-4-3) I’m always contemplating to upgrade to premium economy because of the narrow seats. No need for that on the A350.

Agree A350 is one of the most comfortable rides in aviation. It is a favorite with travelers.

I really like the 2-4-2 config on the a330, personaly i prefer the a330NEO to the a350. But of course, the a340-600 will always be my favorite! :)

​@@Jonathan-ki4izFlew it from Paris-Antananarivo (9h) except the food,(u got work Airfrance) it was awesome

the A380 is the only aircraft I found which is OK in economy. the 787 in 9 abreast and 777 in 10 abreast is miserable with the right shoulder room. I'm trying the a350 next month but I can't see it being much better

A320 is now better. The MAX has been a bad idea. Sigh. The 737 was very good. Was.

@@bernardmueller5676 True. Somewhere in the stone age.

Also considering their already permanent top of the chart incident in history, It probably was wise to let the 737max stay right where it is😅😅😅 @@bernardmueller5676

The Neo series are really a no brainer comparing to the Max, it did'nt surprise me at all. Elbers also would have bought the A 321-NEO over the Max.

But low cost Transavia switches from B737 to A321...

The 787 isn't even in the same class as the A350. The 777 is the competitor to the A350.

Passenger experience is a very low priority when airlines buy new jets.

@@MacrossJetYes it is in the same class. The variants of the A350 cross over with both the 787 and the 777.

Boeing got screwed even more with 777x ain't coming out till 2025-2026

What has the class it is in got to to with what plane he prefers to fly on, a triggered and irrelevant answer to his comment@@MacrossJet

Definitely, boeing has run themselves to the ground

For coach passenger comfort, absolutely. With respect to economics, I don’t know. When I travel, I tend to gravitate to Airbus …

American product is getting bad like Chinese product. I will feel safe now knowing that Airbus is a lot safer plane than a Boeing and Comac

Got some extra validation of this, recently.

Agree totally! Even Boeing employees DON'T want to fly on their own planes!

100%. Airbus might have their flaws but they're waaaay more trustworthy than that corrupt amalgamation of a creature whatever you call current day 'boeing'. They should have never merged with Mcdouglas

@@TheOzthewiz Have you considered those employees are idiots?

​@@natowaveenjoyer9862 if the employees are idiots, that's just an even BIGGER reason not to fly boeing LMAO

The 737 MAX is testimony to that …

Sad to know all this, the planes are amazing, but thee struggle mess the things up.

to be fair the 787 was actually innovative.

The 787 changed the entire airplane industry forever, you must remember they started the 787 project all the way back in 2003 when even the A380 hadn't taken off. So if we compare the success of the 787 in terms of being able to guess where the flight industry was going, Boeing got it completely right back then as the A380s are almost retired at only 20 years after release. It was an incredibly innovative airline - the first with albatross style wings, the first with the new era of engines and so many other things that no other planes were doing at the time. just because it gets out done by the a350 today, which is a much newer plane, doesn't mean it wasn't innovative back then

Fast approaching 1900 orders for the "Screamliner", evidently, airlines didn't get your memo.!!!

What a load of bs 💩… I service both A350 and 787 planes for a contract airline that my airline does tech ops for other airlines. The a350 has far more problems and issues than 787’s.

@is500fsport5 you must work for dodgy airline. My airline have both and 787 is by far the most reliable and technically advanced

@@peanuts2105 the 787 is a much more reliable aircraft than the A350. It’s also easier to service too. I don’t work for a dodgy airline since we’re one of the biggest 787’s operators in the world.

is it because a overwhelmingly high number of backpackers? :)

@@chengyoujiang6076 Or the Dutch used to have a monopoly at the Spice Islands for I believe it was nutmeg, and fought the British over this lucrative spice? ;)

Big route? But where is Garuda?😅

@@alphonsusjimos9758 Garuda codeshares on KLM flights to Indonesia.

Very interesting video Coby. Don’t forget to look up and God bless the Dutch.

Even more sense because the country of France is part owner of both Airbus AND KLM? ;) FOLLOW THE MONEY

​@@protonneutron9046that argument just don't hold up. Just look at Air France's fleet with the 777 being an important part

irA minority part. Look at years BEFORE France owned part of Airbus to today. The fleet composition did a flip. The evidence is there. @@ViktorFromDK

@@protonneutron9046 But you can't explain why Air France has been so reluctant to 35K, and had a significant size of 787 order before the group CEO Ben Smith swapped them with A350s. Meanwhile KLM managements had ordered A350 once way back in 2013, and also insisted in A350 this time according to some rumors. Ben Smith on the other hand actually favoured more 787s to KLM.

"before the group CEO Ben Smith swapped them with A350" There ya go.@@steinwaldmadchen

Sounds like a maintenance issue not a aircraft family issue you think airbus planes wouldn’t have those issues it’s more of a KLM issue than anything not a Boeing /787 issue you don’t do maintenance it will fall apart

They don't have to look elsewhere actually. Themselves have openly complained about Chaleston-built 787 quality issues before, despite praising the economy at the same time.

@@shirleytwsw When a four-month old 787 needs the same maintenance as a four year old A330 (it's main competitor), then it's a manufacturer problem! The only other airplanes I experienced with similar issues as I've experienced on KLM's 787s, were on 747, 757, and 767 flights - all of them more than 25 years old.....

787 problem for Norwegian was the RR engines. Most problems have been solved and the 787’s now fly with Norse..

@@ACPilot Ah, that's why Boeing wasn't able to deliver any 787s for more than a year and will probably never make a profit with the 787-program... (*sacrasm)

Panboi😂😂😂

What a joke

Good shit, can't blame you man.

You're literally 100 000 times more like to end up in a fatal car accident en route to the airport than on an airplane. Doesn't really matter which airline. Boeing is worse for safety but I still think it's safe

They also flew Fokker, of course.

@@AndreSomers ..and the Connie .... they weren't exclusively Douglas, but it's the only airline in the world that flew them all except the DC-1 which was a single aircraft built to order for TWA.

@@roykliffen9674 Late fifties early sixties, KLM`s fleet was a mess. Connies, DC 2-3-4-6-7C, Convairs , Electras, Viscounts and every Douglas product available after the DC8 I liked KLM up to the point that they updated their MD-11 cabins, read WAY less room. Their 777 with 10 seats abreast is torture. I wish them well.

There was only one DC-1 and it flew for TWA

Yes - in the mid-1980s the KLM (jumbo -sized) fleet postcard showed all MD except for the 747.

Yea the Boeing internal architecture is illogical😂 and never the same

Well, 777 (non-x) and 787 is as common as A330(including neo) and A350, the only outlawer current in production is 737 anyway, while A220 is nothing really in common too.

​@@umi3017although this is true, my understanding is that the systems differences between them are still bigger and more complex to address than the differences between all airbus models...

This commonality makes perfect sense, economically. Distance is a plus now that have to avoid Russia.

​@umi3017 but 757/767 are different to the 787 and 737. Having FBW is a massive help in Airbus compared to the older Boeing lineup

yep you're right. Thing also is that when KLM received the 787's a few years back is that there were a lot of quality issue's they discovered like loose seats, KLM had to fix it themselves

just like Boeing played games with Delta and Embraier. Fuck Boeing!

There is no reduction in pilot training costs between an A320 and A350. They’re not a common type rating and both require full courses. Just as the 737/787 combo would. The only aircraft types that have combines training platforms are the B757/767 and A330/340

This. Facts.

This order on KLM’s part is mostly needed for replacing A330’s. I don’t think 777X was ever an option. KLM’s B777-300’s aren’t due for replacement yet, but it’ll be interesting to see what will happen when they are.

​@@kevonvideoI think you need to see past the video (and Coby is missing a very important point). 1- the a350 competes with the 777...if they were looking to simply replace their a330, why not go for the a330neo or 787 (both cheaper, and KLM actually has a lot more B787 than a330). The a350 increases fleet range & capacity.. 2- They have already B788-10 in service, not expanding the number of orders gives a very clear indication to market - "KLM prefers the risk of new aircraft type, over expanding a type they are familiar with" 3- They elected to refurbish their B777 and introduce the a350 (competitor to the B777), instead of new B777 orders ....this signals, to me, that in its current trajectory the KLM fleet is moving to all Boeing...

facts, it is

​@@jpazinhothe A350 wil also be replacing the 777-200 at KLM

and will contribute to the passenger comfort and better service on board

good point

I am no expert, but that could also mean sharing maintenance services.

I have a feeling they will go 3-4-3.

@@widget787 I will cry and leave Flying Blue if they will 😭😭

@@widget787 it was already a shame they did this on the triple 7, no way they'll dare to do this on the A350

@@Megalodon1986 they were already one of the poineers to go 10 abreast in the 777.

and Southwest with their shit Max

And a single crash can absolutely devestate a carrier.

The 787s aren't “poorly made.” if the QC issues posed a significant threat to the plane’s safety, regulators would've stepped in.

Over 1000 787s delivered , have you heard of any customers complaining about their 787?

I absolutely see the 777X at both AF and KL. But not yet, maybe another five years to go.

Its not the same, different type raiting is required. But getting A350 TR from A330 TR takes 2 weeks or less

​@@XD-ql2krbut a lot simpler than the whole Boeing fleet

@@XD-ql2kr330/350 is the same type rating, exactly like 787/777, there is just a difference course to fly both of them.

Nope, 330 and 340 have same TR, 350 is different

@@XD-ql2kr then you should go explain the French civil aviation they made a mistake by validating both on my licence... A google search "EASA type rating and licence endorsement list" will prove you wrong. Why not check an information before you certify it?

its Coby

nah Airfrance want to make stronger bonds with Airbus

Not when 772 and 77F are both replaced by A350s in the future, sorry.

Uh, no. A350's will be replacing those 777's. Air France bought KLM. This was not a merger as stated. Air France is WAAAAAAAAYYY larger. a350 is a direct 777 replacement.

Reason why KLM flew the 747 for so long was also because they had asked Boeing to build a special variant for them; the 747 combi. Would not be surprised if they would do the same trick again with the 777-9.

Hell no they won't. Back in 747 combi days there were no long range freighters running around and why it made sense. Today that is not true in the slightest. Not to mention your average long range aircraft is carrying cargo already in their bellies. 747's equivalent aircraft used to be rare, they are not anymore. @@TravelFilming

The 767 does not use the LD3 container, it’s to large, it uses the smaller LD2 container. The A350-900 and the 787-9 can hold 36 LD3 containers, the 777-200 on the other hand can only hold 32 LD3 containers. Both the A350-900 and 787-9 has a larger cargo volume than the 777-200ER,even the old A330-300 has a slightly larger cargo volume

767 uses LD2s not LD3s

This new order (now A350) is to replace the 777-200 and A330 fleet of the Air France-KLM group. Capacity wise, the 787-10 fits in for these two.

No, B777-9 is too big for both of them and B777-8's range are not useful for their lack of longer range routes.

With Qantas, they are still clinging on to Boeing somewhat. They just took delivery of the last 787 from their first order for the type. Alongside they have the A350s ordered for Project Sunrise, Qantas also ordered more 787s and they are also using it to replace A330-300s instead of going for the A330neo. This is despite the fact that they ordered more of the A350 beyond the ones set to be delivered in the middle of this decade. This balances Qantas’s international flight networks in that once the A380 and A330ceo are retired, international flights are gonna be handled by both A350s and 787s. And I didn’t even mention Qantas subsidiary Jetstar, who happen to also use 787s for some of their international flights.

@@CoSmicGoesRacing Did you consider QANTAS' last order, when they split it into 787s and A350s. There was also a statement from QANTAS, that the intentions is to replace the A380 fleet with a fleet of A350-1000.

@@aquaden8344 I did mention the last order.

It’s too small; KLM flies B777 on that route currently.

Buenos Aires Ams on B787 currently

low capacity for pax and cargo

@@ElCuervodeSanlo Ah yes, I was only referring to the South Africa flights.

Not only size is small but also payload. I remember some routes are 1-stop routes, that means the aircraft has to carry passengers and cargo from 2 destinations. A bit too much for 787s.

What has the Dutch government to do with the ordering of KLM and AF aircraft?

@@tiesmuysNothing, just like they had nothing to do with pilot and cabin crew salaries. And still they made it a precondition for lending money to KLM during covid times. A kind of blackmail by government. I don’t say it is true and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was. The Dutch government is a significant shareholder of the AF-KLM holding, which the French don’t like. Because it is a threat to French industrial policy. The takeover of KLM by AF and the French government was done to be the leader and the only leader in the new holding. Having another major shareholder wasn’t in the plans of the French. A bit of bad blood here, which the Dutch have to massage away, because the French bare a grudge for eternity. So not such a strange thought.

They’re also switching from B737 to A320. So lots of Airbus planes to come for KLM!

Air France Bought KLM...This was not a merger as stated. For pride reasons the KLM name was retained. Of course they went with Airbus.

Well first major purchase since merger where 1/3 of stock is OWNED by the French government... Gee I wonder who they would pick even if the a350 sucked(it doesn't)...