Verstappen understands that he doesn’t need to win he just needs lando to not win and is willing to wreck his race as long as it wrecks landos. Max knows what he’s doing.
I agree, but they should also look into other options rendering overtaking off the track useless without the need of any penalty from the stewards (like grass or gravel) and only in rare occasions use harsh penalties to correct a driver's behaviour
@@dnvyl I remember when they used to show the drivers briefing a driver (think it was Ricciardo) made this point but Charlie Whiting said it's not possible because of other classes of Motorsport the tracks use e.g. motorbike racing. Whether that point is accurate or not I'm not sure if that's necessarily correct but that'll be the argument against it aside from costs/time of replacing the runoff area with gravel or grass
Is it really that difficult to understand? Even with the 20 second penalty his move paid off. Only the win gets you big points. Norris was the fastest driver in clean air and would have won the race. Verstappen held him off for 27 laps. It doesn't really matter if Verstappen scores 8, 10 or 12 points when Norris only scores 15 or 18 points instead of 25 points. It's basic math. Max's goal is for Lando to not win the race.
@@gehteuchnixan69 One could say he is abusing the current rule set. But it's actually the FIA's fault. Some will say Max is a genius, others will say he acts unsportsmanlike. That's opinion based. But rules shouldn't be opinion based. They should be clear to everyone and the punishment for breaking those rules should be clear to everyone. The FIA needs to set this straight. I believe they have done a really poor job. If you're ahead at the apex the corner belongs to you, that doesn't make any sense to me. Who was ahead at the breaking zone? The current rule set completely ignores that.
@@brilliantbeaches5389 ye he is abusing it a lot, he abuses being ahead of the apex by sending it and not making the corner himself, also the hypocrisy to call out norris in Austria where he says divebomb is not how you overtake but he does just that
I agree that “ahead at the braking point” would make it fairer, but the secondary issue is the main one now: Max is playing the rules as they are, and he’s entitled to do this. The rules dictate what’s fair, and the punishment for breaching them. Right now, it’s worth max breaching the rules because even with the punishment, he’s better off. Lando needs more points-per-race now, than he did before Mexico. I’m remembering Suarez deliberate hand ball on the goal line against Ghana (I think). He broke the rule, got the red card and a penalty awarded, but it was worth it for him because the penalty was saved and Uruguay won in the end
The “who’s ahead at the corner” makes no sense. That encourages dive bombing without making the corner along the racing line. Max exploits that loophole more than anyone else.
Norris actually does. You notice that every time these 2 have come into contact like this, it's Norris with DRS going late into the corner on the outside. The FIA need to have it that the car that is leading down the straight is the car that controls the corner unless being passed from the inside. Norris having his front wing in front for 1 second because of late braking does not mean the corner is his. Passing on the outside used to be non-thinkable, but now, you can just cry you were pushed off and a penalty is handed to the driver defending their position.
Verstappen is ruthless and has a win at all cost mentality. I’m sure he did the math in his head that if both Norris and himself were taken out he would reduce the chance of Norris catching him on drivers champ. Sportsmanship is only applicable when he is ahead.
I'm pretty sure this had been thought of even before they got in the car on sunday, Red Bull is extremely crafty and sneaky with strategy like this. In the past, they've withheld knowledge about another driving breaching the rules (incorrectly doing a practice start) in FP. Only reporting it as the cars were getting lined up on the grid on race day. The driver got a grid penalty and had to get moved back minutes before the race started, all to play mental games and get in their head.
+1 FIA created and rewarded this monster by not penalizing torpedo tactics early in his career. Brilliantly talented driving at the limit in clean air, but definitely not a sportsman.
This was one of the reasons they upped the penalty from 5 to 10 seconds. The drivers that were committing the most penalties were in cars that could drive away from the field. So forcing a slower car off the track to get a position earned a 5 second penalty. But the person would gain that 5 seconds in the matter of a few laps, so the penalty really was unjust.
@@steve4880 Yeah, Lando nearly removed his own 5 second penalty in the previous race because he was so much quicker than Max. I definitely think they need to do a minimum 10 seconds, although I do wish they'd bring back the full on drive through in 3 laps rule.
@@janwillem2656he only received 2 points for T4 incident. Not for T8 as stewards rule that “he did try to make the corner”. In what reality that is, is still unknown.
taykitrleevitt4314 You re to young to witnessed what senna did to Prost in Suzuka . Or what Schumacher did in Adelaide , Monaco . You British have either no idea or a very selective memory
@@gnaihccnbut it's not though, if you cannot keep your car on the track then you are being a Muppet and not a driver. Now Norris is doing the same thing as the cheater, they are finally changing the rules?
The real question is why Max took the risk. It's because his best finish would've been P6 anyway (which he got despite the 20s penalty), his only goal was to either yeet Lando into the barriers or gravel trap, or at LEAST cost him P1. Points-wise, this race result is a win for Max. He cost Lando points and didn't lose any himself.
No, Max can't just do whatever he wants to in a championship and defend at all cost. If Lando's race here was done for by Max, this would have become '97 championship, ie Max getting disqualified from the championship in the same way as Schumacher.
Honestly Max should have been DQed for that second move, it was so dangerous. It wasn't a move, it was a torpedo to try and take Lando out with no other intention
I think Max could have been P4 and Lando P1 which would have been more points to Lando. I wouldn't have argued against a more harsh penalty, I think 10 seconds was too soft for the Turn 8 one an 10 seconds was too harsh for the first one (because at the time he didn't gain/keep postion)
He only got the first penalty because of the second. If he had kept his cool, he probably would have been given the place back as the first one was def not a 10 second penalty.
@@joshmason6169Not likely. As has been reiterated over and over for the reason Max didn’t get a penalty in Austin, the first to the apex wins the corner. So since Lando made it to the apex first, the rules state that Max had to give Lando room or face a penalty. Max chose to run him off the course.
@@Themusefan4lifehe’s actually right, Max changed his attitude after Silverstone knowing Hamilton got away with a move that would never stick and only had the risk of taking Max and himself out
This would have been the most fair decision. Drivethrough would have been in place in 3 laps so Lando's race would not have been hindered as much by Verstappen blocking him.
2nd one never happens though if Norris gave the place back like he should've. He never was in 2nd, he cut the track to gain 2nd place, he never fully made a complete pass on Verstappen. So give Verstappen the 5-10 seconds, but Norris deserves one also for cutting the next corner and gaining an advantage. Lawson got pushed off like Norris did in the exact spot to Perez in turn 4 and he fought back with his elbows out and reclaimed the spot in turn 5.
@@mac2857 its a shorter penalty? but they should punish max by letting the position back quickly, bcs landi didnt get the chance to win bcs max could hold the position for long time
@@sam1_309not really. Because he’d have to do the drive through separately to a stop. On most circuits, that’s about 20 seconds on top of their actual stop.
Max has been doing this for years driving others off the track. He did it with Lewis and he will do it with anyone that's a threat to him. The sooner the commentators start calling it out and he continues to get penalties during races the better it will be.. he gets away with far too much unsportsmanlike driving.
A lot of people are saying they are ‘too harsh’ of penalties. Honestly, 20 seconds seems fair if not a little too lenient. Forcing him off twice, overtaking off track, divebombing almost causing a collision with no intention of making the turn.
For everyone asking why 5 in Austin and 10 on the first move here: 10 ist the regular punishment in the rule book since this year. Norris got 5 because of the mitigating factor Verstappen played in Austin. It's all in the Steward documents. They just don't communicate it to the viewers, which leads to this confusion.
In Austin both Russell and Piastri received a 5 second penalty for forcing another driver of the track. If you look at the stewards reports from Russell in Austin and Verstappen ( the turn 4 incident in Mexico) then I do not know why a 10 second penalty was given this time, 5 seconds would be consistent with Austin. 10 second penalty for the second incident I fully agree on.
@@plivajucipauk7742 There's only one driver in the history of Formula 1 that the FIA have straight up gifted a title to. Newsflash, the driver is Dutch.
Max's driving has always been like this. Its beyond disgusting and he needs to be either banned for a race or disqualified from the championship like Shummi was in '97 against Villeneuve
Considering how much the 1997 collision looks like a racing incident and got MSC disqualified from the whole championship in the end yet Mad Max Crashtappen's pulls this level of BS only gets a few seconds added to his race.... A case this slam dunk against him really seems like it should be revoking his super license entirely - driving that poor doesn't belong on track, and its not his rookie year any more where a little more leniency could be expected.
@@foldionepapyrus3441Agree it should be a race ban, however the Schumacher penalty was a token gesture. He'd already lost the championship, I doubt he cared much.
@@Roeland666 I agree with the above comment, and I've been watching F1 for a very long time. If there was a risk of being black flagged he'd have to dial it down.
foldionepapyrus3441 You forgot senna in Suzuka T1 on Prost . Got the championship by crashing out Prost . But you British all just forget those things , with blind hatred agianst Verstappen
Well, when Verstappen had the entire 2021 full of such incidents and not a single penalty was awarded. Take Brazil Monza etc. once you give Max the forbidden fruit of success as a world driver champion, he is just gonna do what it takes to retain his title. After all, he wasn’t punished then, why now? The last 2 seasons was about him being strapped to a rocket 30s ahead of everyone else, no one could apply pressure on him. And right now, under pressure, we see the real Max returns.
After Austin I said that as long as the stewards keep giving Max that leeway they will be teaching drivers that making the corner isn't important as long as your nose is ahead at the apex and people argued that I was wrong. It certainly looks like the FIA are looking at the way the rule is written and enforced now. It's amazing to me that they removed the line from 2023 on that said the "defending" driver had to stay on track. Why would they remove that? Credit to Max for realizing the weakness in the rules.
The FIA have said they will have wording for new rules for people to check out at Qatar. In the interim the grey area is there for Brazil, Las Vegas and Qatar and likely Abu Dhabi. Is someone going to end up in the wall because of this.
@@desshinnick9365 All you have to do is force anyone overtaking at the end of a straight to take the outside, don't brake so you are ahead at the apex, and it's your corner. It's particularly dumb because in Austin Lando had completed the pass on Max before the braking zone but they designated Max as "defending" ... had they counted Lando's pass on the straight Max would have been "attacking" and the language of staying on the track is there so he would have lost the spot on track and may have faced a penalty. It's a really dumb situation the FIA got themselves in. That said, I love F1 because of people finding the cracks in the rules and exploiting them ... this one is just more dangerous than most technical innovations.
@@Scoots1994 Yeah I think the dumb situation is that the rule has real issues and the FIA are taking too long to deal with it. Technically a driver can put another into the wall in Las Vegas, and still be within the rules. The next few races can be really scary.
I get Palmer wants to see the championship play out with fair racing, because it would increase Landos chance to become champion. But Max is gonna do what he's gotta do to become champion, and the fact that Palmer can't even show the slightest appreciation for that makes it clear he's biased.
As a Hamilton fan I remember quite well, how we have been called crybabies in 2021, but now anyone is seeing the truth about Verstappen. Except for his fans of course. I am happy that the FIA is finally taking action on this unsportsmanlike and dangerous behaviour. Well deserved penalty. Anyways, curious to see, how his fans will defend him this time 😂
@coys-x3f, you're totally right. There's nothing wrong with being an aggressive driver. But when you're aggressive and put others in danger, thats when it becomes dangerous.
@@rogue2888 Silverstone was Karma haha. He is lucky it was not worse, you would have though that would teach that sociopath a lesson but it did not. That is why the FIA need to make an example out of him
What surprises me is how there are people defending Max at this point... releasing the brakes to push someone else off and avoid being overtaken should be punishable. Regardless of who gets first to the apex... That should be clear. Perez did it to Lawson too and nothing is being said. The difference? Lawson is not battling for the title, so he can take the risk and decide to make the second corner and push Perez back.
Next time Verstappen makes an absurd move like this one they should penalise him even more this is a ridiculous and a childish manner to defend his title
Well Max gave it up right there in his interview. We just don’t have the pace, the underlying meaning I’ll just take out my competitor by any means because we don’t have the pace to beat them on the track
The second move 5:30 it was for BLACK FLAG! Obviously he doesnt want only to try to damage landos car but his main target was to ruin the race of lando to lose the 1st place thats why obviously he deserve black flag...As a result...he ruin the race of lando....he take also points for his place to Championship and FIA is flying kite since 2021 with Hamilton.
80% of people comment with hamilton is non-sense here. With the worse pace car than mercedes, max is playing his race with fastest car-Norris, where hamilton mistaken zhou as a mclaren.
Max knows a crash with Norris helps him. T8 was absolutely worthy of a drive-through penalty imho. He knows the only way Norris has a chance is if Norris keeps getting 25 or 26 points a weekend. I'm all for aggressive divebombs, but they need to be actually possible divebombs, not just yeeting it into a corner and basically telling Norris to get out of the way or crash. Max also knows that keeping Norris behind him hurt Lando's chance at winning, which is exactly what Norris needs. Max has taken the rules to the absolute extreme and the rules regarding moves like Max into T8 should seriously be looked at for harsher penalties to prevent drivers from doing ridiculous moves like it
ofc Max knows that any double DNF would grant an advantage in the big picture If he's going to be as reckless in next races I hope he gets punished even more, or soon enough someone's going to get badly hurt
F1 should introduce long lap penalty as in motogp. so, instead of keep holding the cars behind him when he had time penalty, he needs to go through a specific slow section of a track outside of the actual track, and it should be mandatory within the next few laps, and then rejoin the race seamlessly.
Verstappen has proven his driving style time and time again as nothing more than an amateur reckless driving with zero respect to basic racing rules. Verstappen is exactly what Vettel described Kyvat back in 2016 in China. A reckless torpedo.
At 1:31 - 1:34 Max Verstappen should have known better not to overtake there. The way he did it was he was on the F1 game with no spacial awareness. Silly move & really mind boggling.
He wasn't trying to "just make a pass". He was trying to take Lando out of the race. Get it right. This is the dirtiest driving we have seen from him yet. He should've been disqualified. It was blatantly dangerous
I am not new to F1 but definitely not someone that has been watching F1 for the last 20+ years. But someone help me understand...so Is racing about being faster and out driving your opponent or is it about sabotaging your rival to keep them from winning @5:59? Same thing he was doing to Lewis in 2021 no?
He did the same to Lawson, Perez drove him completely off the track in turn 4, but instead of bailing through the grass, Lawson got his elbows out and got back around Perez in turn 5 to show it can be done.
@@juzoli shouldn't be that way. If it is, then, FIA needs to assign more stewards. The battles at the back are just as important, not just to the teams and drivers but to the fans of those teams. There are benefits to finishing higher in the championship than your rivals. For example, Haas finishing sixth would be a massive result and should be an even bigger story than McLaren/Ferrari winning the championship.
Part of the game now is that the gamble of taking penalties is not a great risk because there is often a safety car than can make them irrelevant. The best point made is that we want to see the results decided by the drivers contesting each other, not involving a lot of input from the stewards. Carlos drove a great race, and this is what is being talked about. Oh well. How about the save Leclerc pulled off near the end?
It’s kinda funny how everyone is like “I don’t understand why Max made this move, it seems so reckless.” Uh well I know why he made that move… he’s ahead in the championship and was trying to get Lando to crash. That’s it.
It really doesn't matter who is ahead of the apex, they are side by side, you just can't force another drive off even if you are like 3 inches ahead in the apex
Verstappen is great driver but not at all the champion people think he is. He's still very immature and as other teams cars improve, he's struggling to hold onto his monumental lead. The lead and landslide of victories he's amassed the last several years.
Max is further damaging his already bad reputation with his 'win at all costs' attitude. Lando starting to win these tough altercations. Karma doing it's thing.
Does anyone realize that Max got his second 10-second penalty on lap 20 and did not enter the pits until lap 27? By that time, Sainz had built up a 15-second lead. If Max had gone into the pits within 2 laps of receiving his penalty like other drivers normally do, Lando more than likely would have won because Sainz would have only been about 6 or 7 seconds ahead. Max should have received a BLACK FLAG for not entering the pits in an appropriate time after receiving his penalty. That cost Lando the victory.
Stop crying. F1 has never forced a driver to take a timed penalty in "x" amount of laps under these current regulations. It's always been under a pitstop or time added on at the end of the race. Did you see Norris pit in Austin to take his 5 second penalty at the end of the race? NOPE!!!!
@@thijspiersma Nope. It just makes me upset that the stewards are allowing Max to take the constructors championship away from McLaren, which is my favourite team, with his antics. Ferrari is just sitting back and capitalizing on the situation or colluding with Red Bull.
@@steve4880 Austin was different because of the timeframe in which Lando received the penalty. He got his penalty on the last lap, so what are you talking about. Max had enough laps left in the race for him to have an influence on the outcome by staying out, impeding Lando and not taking his penalty in the appropriate amount of time. He eventually came in when he felt he had done enough damage to Landos race.
I missed the moments when these ,,objective and impartial british analysts” have examined Hamilton s crashes from last season or this season when their hero could have recreated spa 2012 in Miami if Alonso wouldn t have avoided his divebomb at the start
Now there needs to be a video calling Senna anti-ethical just for consistency. Drivers should be judged based on the regulations not on peoples feelings on what driving ethics are supposed to mean.
If it were Sainz or Leclerc, Verstappen would let them pass. Norris on the other hand, is his title contender. Verstappen doesn't care if he wrecks Norris. It one less race for his 4th tile. Similar minded what he did to Hamilton in 2021.
Magnussen did this so his teammate could get some points. Not a problem. Commendable infact. Max does it to win the championship.. sportsmanship.. racing ethics.. not what we want to see 😂
You're trying to make a point but failing miserably. The Max move here was just plain dangerous and reckless. If you're referring to Miami, such a dumb comparison. It's clear Max is targeting Norris with his car.
If you go back and watch Verstappen vs Raikkonen from Spa 2016 and listen to the comments afterwards by both drivers - it's pretty clear what Max was all about and how he raced. How commentators like Palmer are saying "at this point" 9 years later is beyond me.
I love Horner's complete lack of self awerness, I almost died laughing when he did that printout with journalists all around him like some secret agent spilling secrets. I think it's even more insane because of the contrast between his attitude in US and this week in Mexico, it's tragic but so funny at the same time... :P
Yep. Of course you can go faster into the corner when you're not worrying about placing the car perfectly for the next. You can also tell the second was 500% a penalty because he said it was 'arguably' a penalty.
