I think at this point in his life, Michael doesn’t trust anyone because he’s been betrayed by everyone. From his own brother to multiple capos in his family, to his own wife. He’s pushing back on Tom because he’s irritated by the insistent plotting against him and even Tom’s slight reluctance to kill Roth triggers a question in Michaels mind if Tom is now trying to make a move. He’s distrustful, fed up, and testing Tom to make sure he still with him.
I agree with this assessment. And Michael and Tom resorting to Itallian to confirm the loyalty and trust each has for one another is vey powerful. They are not blood brothers, but their bond runs even deeper than blood.
Agreed and may even have been attempting to illicit a response from Tom to reveal information he was holding back. He kind of did this with Fredo where his older brother reveals the reason for his betrayal to Michael and cements the decision to have him killed rather than exiled.
I always felt Tom was the best reflection of Vito he literally took all of his attributes and personality, Mike had the cunning, Sonny had Vito's inner rage he never let loose and Fredo had his resemblance
Watching the last half oh the Godfather 2 is heartbreaking. You know it's Michael winning at the cost of everything. Veto would have never gone this far. That last scene of Michael looking off in the distance shows you everything you need to know. I'd like to imagine that scene takes place in the late 70s
Prob takes place in the mid to late 60’s. He’s still relatively young at that point tho his hair has started to grey. Reason being- Godfather 3 takes place in the late 70’s and there’s even a scene at the end of that movie which shows how much he’s progressed in age. That’s always what I’ve believed at least. You could be right tho because Coppola never had any intention of making a third film so the end scene with Mike alone in 2 could be near the end of his life.
@@tubularbill Yes, II is from 1958-1960 and 1901-around 1925. The first movie covers 1945 to 1955. I always figured the last scene in II takes place sometime in the late 60s. Michael is grayer, but his hair is still short, which tells me it's sometime in the 60s.
I never considered that Tom was more like Vito then Michael was. Tom, like Silvio Dante was to Tony Soprano, was really Michael's most trustworthy ally. Good observations! Another great video CineRanter!
I can't help but think how incredible G3 could have been if Michael and Tom had a showdown, with Connie playing the grey eminence (something hinted at in the actual film). Just think about it. All of Don Vito's strengths and weaknesses split among the last three siblings, and their own also.
The scene was deleted but Tom Hagen was dating Sonny's widow Sandra. When Michael tells him that he can pack his wife, his kids and "his mistress" and move, he is referring to Sandra. This relationship didn't go down well with Michael. In G1, when Don Vito is talking with Johnny Fontane, Sonny enters the room. Vito looks at him turns back and says "a man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man." Michael probably had this in mind when he references Tom's mistress. Additionally, he may have had some animosity toward Hagan, believing he didn't have the mindset for criminal activities. Of course, we see a scene played out with Sonny and Tom where Sonny stated that he wasn't a good wartime consigliere. It's such a complex relationship. Thinking of the scene where Michael questions some competing job offers that Tom received (without telling him) demonstrates that Michael had suspicions about Tom's loyalty (going so far as to ask him for his loyalty).
Also remember that Tom was the acting Don while Michael is away. We see Tom insisting/ forcing Kay to stay within the compound, and yet it was during this time that Kay had an abortion (!)
@@lanicoya415 Kind of unfortunate where some things from the book are incorporated into the film without any reference for the viewer because of deleted scenes (not sure that happened here but seems quite possible).
Francis Ford Coppola has said in interviews that Godfather Part 2 was about Michael's devolution as a person and he was unredeemable by the end. Michael was just destroying another relation, this time Tom. That's one of the reasons Coppola didn't want to do a Part 3, Michael had destroyed himself by the end of Part 2 and there was nowhere to take that character.
While commenting second godfather Coppola said. " everything he did michael did for his family and in the end he destroyed his family ". Ending of the godfather 2 Coppola commented with words " He became puppet to his father and ruined himself ". He didn't say he didn't want to do godfather 3 He said that he thought it wouldn't happen " this was drama and jn the end men ruined himself ". Once they offered him chance to do third one he said it was his greatest desire to do it the way he ended up doing it. In fact he gave ultimatum to the studio " either I do it this way or I won't do it at all". Understandable .....bc michael at the end of godfather 2 was michael from godfather 3. At the end of GF 2 michael got diabetes stopped smoking drinking killing dressing like mafia aged over night and never took the ring of his finger.
There's the director's, vision, and the audiences interpretation. I don't see as Michael as broken, or the villain in Godfather 2. His family are the culprits. He never wanted any part of the life, yet his hand was forced. Neither of his older brothers could protect the family long enough for his father to fully heal, or protect him from an assassination attempt, that killed his wife instead. Fredo betrayed him, Sonny's temper made him an easy target, and his father made him the head of the family, when the Corleones were most vulnerable. He went from fighting overseas to fighting at home. What I saw, in the flashback at the dinner table was completely different. Sonny introduced his sister to the man who would abuse her, and set him up to be murdered. One of the men who'd betray the family was also a welcome dinner guest. And unbeknownst to anyone, Michael dropped out of college and joined the Marines. One by one they leave the table, until Michael is all alone. The irony is that courtesy of his family, Michael would be left the fight a war alone. Vito would be in no position to judge Michael, as he's directly responsible for Michael's involvement. He didn't betray his family his family betrayed him.
After the scene in which Michael disrespects Tom, sealed the fact that Michael was a miserable paranoid boss. Michael’s world was crashing and he felt helpless to stop the crash landing.
Tom at the time was having an affair. Michael saw what happened to Fredo and Sonny because of affairs. It made Tom vulnerable to both blackmail and bad things happening..
It’s not really “bizarrely” that Michael has turned on Tom-Tom had just openly questioned Michael’s intentions in front of Al and Rocco..and as we should know by now, to question Michael’s decisions in any way shape or form is to “take sides against the family”. Michael’s immediate questioning of Tom’s loyalty should have been expected. Also, it’s a sign of how good the writing in this scene is how Michael responds to Tom’s questioning is first basic and then gradually more direct and specific with a sense of gathering ire; it’s beautifully written!
But where Fredo was completely out of line questioning Michael's authority in front of a hostile party (Moe Green), Tom was acting entirely appropriately in questioning Michael in front of the most trusted inner circle. I do agree with your main point that Michael was displaying reactive emotion in his response to Tom, but it was much less appropriate here than earlier with Fredo.
But Tom, unlike Fredo, was consiliere. His job was to advise Micheal, and even give him an opposite opinion, if just to give an out if need be. It's just in that moment, Micheal was not in the mood to be contradicted. Choosing to kill your own brother would do that to you. Having the other one you consider a brother question you then, makes you really wonder if he's loyal or just trying to manipulate you into.. another trap.
Agreed, but like the other commenter says, Toms duty was to provide counsel and practical solutions to the Family’s issues. He was not out of place or out of his position in doing so.
When you have the likes of Al and Rocco sitting in Michael’s company, his thinking is he has to be tough on Tom so he can’t give off any signs of weakness as boss
I always considered that scene as if they’re subliminally talking about killing Fredo and Tom being dead set against it. It never made sense to me that Tom was so much against killing Roth knowing full well what Roth was capable of. Everyone in that room knew what was going to happen to Fredo but nobody could’ve questioned the boss, but Tom tries his best to reason with Michael but to no avail. The giveaway in my opinion is when Tom ask Michael do you wanna wipe out EVERYONE, basically saying kill Roth and anyone else but let Fredo go. I might be wrong but it’s a very effective method of storytelling and scriptwriting.
I think you're right. I think the subtext is also that Michael has been betrayed by one brother and he's implying to the other that he had better not cross him unless he wants to end up like Fredo, especially since Tom is not related by blood. People sometimes cite this scene as evidence for potential conflict between Michael and Tom that would have been resolved in The Godfather part 3 if Robert Duvall had been in it.
Sometimes it makes you wonder how much Michael is suffering from PTSD from his experiences from the war and watching Apollonia blown up in front of him.
I think we can all agree, that losing a loved one is more than devastating... It probably did lend to his coldness, but I still think it was always in Michael. He was in the navy, which would ultimately, made him more disciplined. Look at the last scene of G2... They all greet Vito, and Michael is at the table alone. He was just much more different, than the rest of his family
When Michael approached Roth's quaint little home, he was anxiously flexing his fingers anticipating a possible ambush or trap. He knew that Roth was a great threat to him.
I seem to remember a part at the end of the novel where Tom told Kay everything and warned her not to tell Michael because he would have him killed. Kay couldn’t believe he would do that and Tom told her the only people Michael wouldn’t hurt were Kay and their children. Read it a long time ago though.
It’s also a deleted scene in part 2. Kay escapes from the compound and Tom goes to bring her back and they have that exact conversation. He tells that Kay is the only person in the world Michael would never harm. A lot of fans wanted Michael to kill Kay after the abortion reveal but as a book reader that thought never even occurred & those who wanted him to kill her never understood Michael or the movie. This is important because the average Godfather fan falsely believes that Michael never truly loved Kay and that she was disposable. This also explains why Michael is cold towards Tom after the hearings. Michael calls the compound from Cuba to speak to Tom but he’s out of the state to bring Kay back. Michael knows that Tom’s failure to keep Kay within the compound allowed her to go and get the abortion done. So he partly blames him for it. Plus, Tom is having an affair with Sandra, the wife of Sonny and Michael knows about it. He hates it because Michael has a soft spot for Tom’s wife Theresa in the book and in the movie(deleted scenes). He also disapproves of extra marital affairs in general and it’s also disrespectful to Sonny. I hate that they deleted so many scenes.
I believe Michael blamed Tom for Kay’s abortion. While Michael was gone it was Tom’s responsibility to protect the future of the family i.e. Kay’s unborn child
Absolutely right! This is how I have always seen this scene, and although the other reasons may all have merit, I think the abortion was the number 1 reason Michael had resentment toward Tom.
The Kay situation is solely on Michael's hands. He made the silly decision to marry a squeaky clean American white woman instead of an Italian woman. Even if she wasn't Italian, he should've got a woman who at least respected the streets.
Michael had certainly lost the humanity we'd earlier seen (notably in the first movie) by this point.. Tom was really just another one who deserved better on the receiving end of that cold, hard fact.. And Michael wouldn't even be looking to get his humanity back until some future point way after what we see in the second film... And only after that would it lead him into becoming the redemption seeking older, wiser, genuine protective family man again we see in the third film.. That greatly coveted redemption, of course, being the wishful goal he, ultimately, never gets (nor was likely ever going to get, all things considered).. Tom deserved better, Kay and the kids deserved better, poor, weak Fredo perhaps especially deserved better.. FAR better.. "Michael, why do you hurt me?".. Because it's who the man became, and he wasn't ever coming back from that even when he later desperately tried so hard to.
I thought the “history has taught us..” thing was in reference of killing the police captain in Godfather 1. Tom said you couldn’t do that and Michael proved you could.
The people in that room at the time all thought the same, it’s only until Michael points out he is a dirty cop and that they can use there contacts in the papers to alter peoples perspective.
Being an orphan, Vito really valued his family. Also Vito knew how to keep his business and life separate.Michael is messed up from ww2 and a little spoiled, he loves his family but is controlling and smothering.
I think this is the best analysis of the characters and their motivations you've done so far. Of course its always tricky to put real reasons and emotions to fictional characters. Well done.
There was a very tense, negative and hostile vibe against Tom in that room. The way Rocco and Al looked at Tom. When Tom entered the room he felt the tension and glanced around at Rocco and Al as if to say:”what is going on?” Michael knew that Tom was a peace maker and that he would first try to resolve issues before resorting to violence. So, Michael was prepared for Tom’s objections to his plan to kill more people. It was Michael and his two top assassins against the peaceful Tom. Tom was outnumbered. Of course Rocco and Al will agree with the plan for murder because that’s what their job is. The way Michael treated Tom was just one of a list of things that He did that I felt was wrong and uncalled for.
Would Vito have advocated letting Roth die of natural causes? I think his scene with Don Ciccio reveals the answer. Ciccio looks like he has days to live, it's a miracle he doesn't drop dead from the exertion of lifting up a can of olive oil. Vito did not have to take the incredibly risky move of killing him in his own villa, surrounded by shotgun wielding guards, but that's what had to be done. I think the way the kill Roth is crazy, surely there would be 100 ways to do it without it being a suicide mission, but is there any doubt that Michael, a man who shot a cop in the head to assassinator Sollozzo, would pay any price to end Roth's life?
It was explained by another channel or even this channel that Rocco "volunteered" to do this suicide mission as compensation for his failure to protect Michael. He was head of security in the compound.
@@Therock007dmx because Rocco knew he was supposed to die. Punishment for betraying Michael at the compound. No one else there that night could have slit the throats of the two hit men from New York, least of all Fredo.
Oddly, I always saw this move as just a smart way to get Tom out of the dirty side of things and send him forward into the "legit" side of the business, to which he's actually more suited, and in which, he's actually more useful.
I think I'm convinced by all of that to the point that your two main interpretations actually fit together- both sets of ideas are true. I might only add: While it is true that Tom represents in selected ways the ghost of Vito's regime, he like all the characters of his generation represents a facet of Vito. Tom is the diplomat and peacemaker. Michael the hard headed don. Sonny was the man of action and passion. Even Fredo, the gentle love of family. Vito could be all those things, and could and did both personally kill men and order others to kill men. He simply had a more comprehensive character, could reflect which side of his personality suited a moment, and evolved along ultimately superior lines because the circumstances of his life and challenges allowed that. All his sons were in this way incomplete versions of him. He was a mafia renaissance man as they were specialists in temperament. Michael for a time seemed as though he could be that too, and in some ways he was when you look at his life as a whole. But he ultimately failed to be that kind of man. Many reasons could be advanced- he started in the business too late, where his father had known the life from childhood and built his own empire as a young man. Michael also had distorted expectations and his father had distorted expectations for him- Michael lived in the Sicilian world of the family and the WASP world of his wife, in the world of the gang and that of politics, and he was not quite comfortable in either, let alone in the balance. His father's expectations for him were also unrealistic- imagine expecting to go from penniless immigrant and crime lord to governor or senator in the second generation. Maybe, but it's quite a weight of dreams. These things also shaped Michael. The other things was his exceptionally poor choice of wives. Maybe Apollonia would have been a good wife, if only because Sicilian, but she was also seemingly erratic and immature and would have not fit in with Michael's wider business and social aspirations. Granted, neither did Carmela, but then Vito was living in a different era. And Carmela was a rock. Kay was always a poor choice. Shockingly so. Michael should never have sought her out again. It is a core part of the tragedy of them both that Michael pursued her again on his return, and she yielded. They'd have both been better off apart. Michael's weaknesses, perhaps solitude, perhaps the loss of Apollonia, perhaps a desperate need to move on and establish himself as head of a family, perhaps a need for love right away, perhaps still a need for Kay's world of middle class normalcy, or all those things, led him to make the fatal choice for Kay. That marriage was never going to survive his business, his kids were never going to be suited to that life, and he was not going to be able to perfectly shield a family whose other members did not have the mindset to be mafia royalty. Kay, for example, was never going to toughen up like Connie did when she had to. And with that, Michael had a personal family that was at least as much a burden and a threat as a blessing and a rock. He never had the wife and family his father had.
Apollonia's family would have affectionately kept her in check I think lol eventually MC may have arranged for her family to be closer, she would have been busy w all the domestic engineering scope of operations in that life and her exotic flair and devotion to Michael imho would assist in his gratitude for the adversity in his life or wtvr bc @ least he was lucky in love, awwww I do have a ♥️ 😆
I've alqays interpreted the insult to Tom as Michael needing Tom to affirm his loyalty because they were about to kill Fredo. TOM: What is it you need me to do? Michael: Imma off our bro when he goes fishing. That cool with you? Tom: Oh hell naw. Michael: Well you just said you were staying, so too late now!
I always saw this scene as a test. Michael's spies told him about Tom's job offer and Michael needed to know if Tom was leaving. After Fredo and the others , Michael learned not to trust Anyone. I like that Tom says in Italian he is staying.
What I find most interesting is the fact of how old these movies are and believe me all three are in my phone. The fact they are still being analyzed indicates just how powerful these movies really are. I have lost count how many times I’ve watched them and still catch something I missed before.
In the book it explains that Michael is actually a little jealous of Tom, as Tom had a better and more brotherly relationship with Sunny. Tom also is a better advisor than most as he is not a yes man, despite Michael’s treatment of Tom outwardly, internally he appreciated this.
I forgot to add, that Michael also is a lot more insecure than his father. He feels that he needs to destroy all his enemies, to show that nobody is safe. This is why Michael had Fredo, Pantangelo & Roth killed, making people see that “nobody is safe”. Hide with the Feds, I will get you, hide in plain site, I will get you, if your part of my family, I will get you. Vito was seen more as a “hero” figure to most and only a monster to his enemies, Michael is seen as the devil on earth, Luca Brasse and Vito rolled into one. Vito wouldn’t have killed his brother, he didn’t need to prove anything to anyone.
Sonny was the only one who treated Tom as a genuine member of the family despite their volatile arguements. Vito trrated Tom well but took the side of his favourite son, Michael when he cut out Tom. And Michael was manipulative. He treated Tom like a brother or as dirt as and when it suited him. A lot of things died in this family with Sonny's death.
People often lash out at those closest to them, as can bee seen in this relationship. After all, Tom is the last remaining 'brother' to Michael; one of the last links to his father as you said yourself.
I think your last point is the best, that Michael in front of Rocco and Neri wanted a commitment from Tom and this was the only way to do it. Also, the connection to the Don was interesting and true, Tom is the last connection to the Don.
I don't know whether Vito would have ordered it, but I remain unconvinced that killing off Roth et al. was a mistake. Roth might have lived, or he might have died naturally, but indeed either would have been a defeat for Michael. Roth hadn't just tried to destroy Michael's business empire, he'd tried to wipe out Michael's wife and kids. That wasn't part of the old rules.
Nope. In the final chapter of the book and in a deleted scene in GF2, Tom tells Kay that she’s the only person in the world that Michael would never harm, let alone kill, plus, contrary to popular belief, Michael truly loved Kay and never even took off his wedding ring after her betrayal. He knew that he was being unfair to her even if he didn’t acknowledge it.
All great points folks. Mike respects Toms ability to remain above the fray. Despite the fact that Tom is actually up to his ears in it. And Michael says to himself. " I'm just as smart and respectable as you. How could you possibly leave your brother in his time of need. My family and I gave you everything. Is it too much to ask for you to take some punches for me.
I think to a degree, Michael resents Tom. Michael was born into the family and circumstantially swallowed by it. But Tom chooses to stay. He’s repeatedly made a conscious decision to embrace the mob life and the mob family. Kinda like the speech that Chuckie gives Will in ‘Good Will Hunting’; Tom’s the only brother Michael has left who he loves, trusts, and respects, and I think part of him wishes Tom would just leave all the mob stuff.
Chooses to stay? I don't think Tom really had a choice. The Family put him thru Law schools and paid for his educations. And I don't know exactly what Tom's childhood life was like before he came home with Sonny one day and never left, but I can guess it wasn't very good. Whether it was loyalty or guilt, Tom could never leave because he felt he owed the Family his life. Plus, you think the Family would feel comfortable with him leaving knowing what he knows, the Family Consigliere?
@@darthslackus499 You have valid points but I still think Tom chose to stay out of gratitude, not guilt or fear. In the book Vito asked Tom what career he was planning to be in after law school and he straight out said he wanted to represent for the family. That put a smile on Vito's face. Vito stated that a lawyer can steal more money with a briefcase than a thousand men with guns and masks. Tom even wanted to change his surname to Corleone but Vito thought it would be disrespectful to his parents' memory. Tom genuinely was grateful and loved the family. I have a feeling that if Tom didn't want to get mixed up in the family business Vito would have respected that. After all Vito didn't even plan on Michael getting into the family business either. He wanted him to be a governor or senator. Heck he didn't even want Fredo in the family business. The only one that he planned on being in the family business was Sonny and he only let him in because Sonny let it be known that he was gonna commit crime regardless so Vito had Clemenza show him the ropes as far as organized crime. Tom stayed out of love, loyalty and gratitude. In his eyes the Corleone family saved him so he had no problem saving it.
I do think he wanted to help out of love and gratitude but I think there was some pressure too in that as described in the book, their parents treated him kindly but not with real affection until he told The Don that he wanted to work for him. It was only then that they began to show him real love and affection so they didn't force him but the affection he craved wasn't going to be his until he joined.
This would have been perfect to plant the seeds for Part III with Michael vs Tom. That would have been a great storyline but of course Robert Duvall unfortunately wasn't in Part III
Tom was responsible for protecting Kay and the children. Tom either knew that Kay was having an abortion (a cardinal sin in the Catholic faith) or Tom was too stupid to see it coming. Either way, Tom allowed that abortion on his "watch", and he did not tell Michael the truth; Tom lied and said it was a miscarriage. So, Michael needs an excuse to vent his anger at Tom.
Michael has always been a soldier. He is a soldier and cannot be with his family. He always has to leave his family to protect them. So Tom, trying to be part of the family, couldn't understand Michael and he was hurt.
Michael had Vito’s nature, Tom had Vito’s nurturing. Michael and Tom both felt lonely in the family. Michael was lonely because he had a different nurturing than his family. Tom was lonely a because of his different nature than the family. Michael and Tom both respected and loved each other it’s just that they were both at odds to living up to Vito
Tom is exceptional at his job. You have to remember Tom learned from the best which is Vito. Vito always study your enemies, only take out who you need to take out. Michael’s personal feelings got in the way allot. Which is why he wanted to wipe out his enemies. Tom was a straggist like Vito
I think it’s possible that this is how Michael always felt about Tom. Earlier in the film, when Michael calls Tom a real brother to him, it’s possible that he was lying only and ensuring that Tom will take care of his wife and children while Michael sorts out business. Michael wanted to inspire devotion, as Tom was the one who Michael could trust the most and was the most competent. It’s possible Michael was being manipulative earlier, but expressed his true feelings later in the film
This is probably one (if not the only) moment in the first 2 Godfather films that I never quite understood. Unless Coppola didn't want to make everything obvious to the audience and instead have us make our own assumptions, I always felt like this scene wasn't quite written as clearly as the others in the first 2 movies. I always just felt that Michael wanted more war and not diplomacy which is why he mentions that Tom is not a "wartime consigliere". From a thematic standpoint, I understand that it was done to highlight the end- that Michael was alone just as he had somewhat been always apart from his family during the start of the first Godfather film.
Great analysis, he hurts Tom because he was hurting and he viewed any opposition as betrayal because of his history. You hurt the ones you love though i don't think he would talk that way to Rocco or AL just Tom. The last of his real family.
Of course Tom new. At that point in the movie Tom is the only living member of that family that is on Michael's level of intellect. He knew a lot without Michael having to spell things out for him.
I think it stems to the past even when Tom was always thinking what was best for mike like in the end of the movie when they are waiting for their father to sing happy birthday
I always thought of this as Michael either testing Tom and/or offering Tom an exit- in involvement with Fredo's murder. If Tom can convince Michael he has won, there is no need to kill Roth or Fredo. Michael offers the out, if Tom is unable "to come along in these things" -ie. killing Fredo.
I always felt he was pushing Tom away for his own safety. The reason he was so harsh to him, is he wanted Tom to not want to stay, not just send him away, which Tom might resist.
In my opinion this is Michael's lowest point. Even lower than the killing of Fredo. Because at least I could be convinced with rational thought why you would kill a brother who betrayed you. But a loving brother like Tom Hagen, being treated like this is completely unacceptable.
When Michael tells Tom “If history has taught us anything is that anyone can be killed” I’ve always thought he was talking about the situation with McCluskey and Sollozzo and how Tom was convinced Sollozzo couldn’t be touch because he was being guarded by McCluskey and that made him “Invulnerable” of course Michael figured a way around that
True but he had no idea what Michael was thinking. In Tom's head Michael wasn't or doesn't wanna be part of the family business. Michael at that point made a decision to help and he knew his position at the time being labeled a "civilian" was his secret weapon to use on Sollozzo & Mcclusky
If anyone has read the book closely one would know that part of the attack on the Corleone family was due to the Don having someone like Tom as Consigliere among other things of course. The families called the Corleone's "The Irish Gang", pretty much a slur on them because they thought having an outsider like Tom so intimate and close to the business was actually crazy. A non Sicilian in that position was unheard of. Tom was also one step behind as Consigliere, he was short on seeing it was Barzini, he was once again short on seeing it was Roth, who actually thought like a Sicilian in many ways. Sonny one time after getting irritated at Tom being too soft said if he had a Sicilian...a War time Consigliere he wouldn't be in this sad shape, mentioning Genco, the don's former consigliere who didn't miss a beat. In the end Michael knowing all of this about Tom, even though he loved him, in the end was actually kind of tired of him. But ...CineRanter does bring up some excellent points no doubt.
I think there's another dimension to Michael's cold disposition towards Tom. Michael left Kaye under Tom's care and responsibility, and she went and got an abortion (which Tom incorrectly told him was a miscarriage). Michael's loss of trust in Tom stems to a great extent from this perceived failure on Tom's part. Also, this scene is the second time in the movie that Michael lashes out at Tom, the first time being when he repeatedly asks if the baby he lost was a boy and Tom dithers.
I’ve always wondered why he got so upset with Tom. I agree with everything you said in the video! It makes a lot of sense! I also agree that maybe he is a little upset with Vito (Father) because he had to give up his own life and dreams to take over the family business when his father was shot! He always said that he would never go into the family business! I love The Godfather 1 and 2! 2 is the best out of the 3 because it gives a backstory! I enjoy your channel CineRanter! Keep up the good work!
What Tom was doing with Sonny's widow may not be as taboo as it seems. It could have been an expression of family obligation. If that was the case, throwing it in Tom's face was an unwarranted insult.
Micheal in GF2 in my opinion was written as the type that demands his ass be kissed and ego stroked. Definitely preferred Michael in the first Godfather. That character was far more respectable
True. GF1 Michael was an honorable man. Even when he got into the family business he conducted himself with honor. He was a man that did what he had to do to protect his family. In GF2 he is a power-tripping tyrant that wants people to cater and kowtow to him. Everything he does is about power and sending a message. He has lost track of why he joined the family business which is to protect his family.
09:45...talk about burying the lead 🤯 I don't I've ever heard that before. Every time i think i already knew everything about GF1 & 2, you always got some new info
Another big youtube channel explained this. The supposed not trusting of Tom was simply a ruse that had to be so believable even Tom would think it was real so the enemy families would buy it. At no point did Michael really doubt or question Tom’s loyalty on anything nor be truly against him.
I have another take: Go back to the first movie when Johnny Fontain is singing, Michael tells Kay that Tom will be named Consigliere to the family...Michael tell Kay: "He is a good man, not a Sicilian, but a good man". Then he cuts Tom out of the plan to settle all family business and in part two he is no longer sitting in on meetings. He is pretty much kicked out of the Johnny Ola meeting and they do not talk business until he has left. After the assassination attempt Michael tell Tom what he wants to hear, that he trusts him, he respects him and finally that he sees Tom as a brother. He did this to get him to do what he wanted and never meant any of it. Then yelled at him about giving him a straight answer if it was a boy or not when Tom informed he that Kay lost the baby. In a later book, Michael finds out that Tom set up the abortion and has the doctor killed. You see Michael never liked or wanted Tom Hagen, he was stuck with him do to a loyalty to his father plus Michael probably set up all the jobs Tom was offered to entice him to leave. When he staid he was staying Michael berated and embarrassed him in front of Al Neary and Rocco...why does nobody think that having Rocco Lampone, a Copo in the Corleone family killing Hyman Roth won't be connected to them?
when kay wanted to go to the store, tom stopped her. that lets me know that she couldn't get out without his help. when kay tells michael that she aborted her son, he knew she couldn't have done it without tom's help. that is why michael is so mad at tom
Yeah, I always thought Michael was a bit hard on Tom and I don’t know why. Early in the film he tells Tom he considers him like a brother. But then proceeds to insult him, bar him, and distrust him. The only thing I can pinpoint this on goes back to the flashback scene while their at the dinning table waiting for Don Vito. After Michael admits he joined the army, Tom tells Michael his father and Tom discussed Michaels future many times. Michael obviously did not take kindly to this (“…you discussed my future? Mine?”) and I think he resented Tom’s interference in his life. And it was payback time.
Because Michael has always been jealous of Tom and his brothers and fathers' relationship. That comment about him leaving was the only way Michael could give Tom a way out. He loved Tom, but he always saw Tom as the son his father wished he had.
I honestly don't think Vito would've been disappointed in Michael, what Fredo did was unforgivable. He said he didn't know there was going to be a hit but what exactly did he think was gonna happen? Plus he obviously was the one to open the drapes so the hitters will have a clearer shot.
Sal was rash and emotional. But, in my opinion, so was Michael...just in a very cold, ruthless way. Sal was impulsive, Michael was calculating. He lost his father's example...power as a means to an end...providing for and defending the family..and embraced power as the end in itself. He has his brother murdered. He felt betrayed? You brutally off your own family because you feel offended? You sideline Fredo and neuter him..you don't straight up kill your own. Never go against the family again, he said to Fredo...but in his mind Michael was the Family. Vito might have had something to say, had he been alive. Michael's projectory is beautifully tragic in that sense. One of my favorite characters.
Michael was an arrogant fool regarding Roth and Tom was right. Michael won the minute the Castro Revolution occurred. In that moment, Roth lost almost everything (Roth was based on the real life Mayer Lansky) he had as he was the primary investor and builder of all those casinos in Cuba. Michael saw the writing on the wall and wisely pulled out. So, what could Roth have done after that? Hitmen don't work for free and Roth would have been almost broke, just like Lansky became in real life. Another boneheaded Michael move was how he handled Fredo. He knew his brother was a dope but yet he had him supervise the casino in Vegas? What did he think Fredo would do? Michael should have made Fredo his underboss and just kept him mostly in the dark. An underboss though technically second in command, wields little actual power, kinda like a VP. Michael would have had total control over Fredo and known what he was up to at al times.
Sonny was not a good wartime Don. Tom was use to Vito who asked of Tom to play devil’s advocate to help Vito see other arguments. He did not need Tom to control his anger or rage as Sonny did. Vito also knew his political connections did not want a lot of bodies being found. It was bad for business…
At the end of the day Tom is flat out ride or die loyal to his adopted family. There’s going to be disagreement but at the end of the day I feel you stay loyal to your family when they stay loyal to you
9:36 Tom having a mistress wouldn't have bothered Vito seeing how Sonny had a mistress thar Vito was well aware about. Vito even mentioned it after the Solozzo meeting when Vito says "I think your minds gone soft from all that funny business you've been doing with that young girl" And the "orange symbolizes death" is a total crock. Francise Ford Coppola has even said so. He said that the oranges were merely a coincidence and they were used simply to add some more color to the screen.
Michael runs the family as his personal business, he always uses the line how someone disappoints him or not useful to him when he talks to Carlo or Fredo so Tom speaking his own thoughts is a threat to Michael. Didnt expect that Sonny's widow would be Tom's mistress as she seemed very down home and not a mistress type, its actually a stretch, unless he gives her bigger allowance.
Michael lived for his family. And when he lost it he got diabetes, aged over night, stopped smoking, drinking, never touched another woman for the rest of his life or took the ring of his finger
This is a very good topic i have always wondered this one myself i do feel in the end Michael was lashing out and being rude cause at this point he did not trust anyone and he did see him maybe leaving the family for more money somewhere else to be betrayal.
Think about how Tom would have fared being a consigliere to Sonny, who ordered him around in 1. You can't have your brother, blood or no blood, in that position, there will always be a family dynamic, and brothers are naturally competitive with each other. In Sonny's and Micheal's and probably even Fredo's mind, Tom will always be the kid with the eye disease that Sonny took pity on, and brought in from the street. Tom is not a vicious human like Clemenza and Tessio, Tom has never killed anyone, Tom would have probably ended up in the gutter were it not for the Corleones. In the book, Tom berates himself after Sonny's death, thinking "Old Genco Abbanando would have smelt a rat."
Michael entered this life defending his family. - killing the two men directly responsible for the attempts on his fathers life. Ironically and most unfortunately, the reason he entered the life is also the reason he despises the life as it has unfolded. - he chose to fall from grace in the restaurant after he came back to the table with the gun in tow, this started to happen in one of the best scenes in the entire trilogy when his eyes were dancing at the two men in front of him and he was getting up the intensity and gaul to murder them. - He died in that moment and was reborn into the criminal underworld, his soul departed from his body and he made the commmitment - the entire second film is about how alone Michael actually is, and this is incredibly sad because he entered the life for his family to save his father and everyone in his family wants out in one way or another from him. - he ran into the life for his father and ultimately to care for his family and no one appreciates it because he has turned into the inevitable monster that you need to be to be in his position. - he is at odds with everyone at this point in the film and He is fully expecting Tom to deal another blow and hurt him by asking to leave so he lashes out on the offensive. It truly is a special film because you must watch it again with everything I just said in mind and when you watch it thru those eyes you see how sad Michael actually has become and his becoming, specifically with Fredo, when he hears him say “ Johnny Ola told me about this club, old man Roth would never come here by Johnny knows all these spots”. - Michael’s hand covers his face and in that moment he is certain Fredo betrayed him.
Entire gf2 is about how much Michael cared about his family and how far he is willing to go to protect them. " Everything he did he did for his family, and in the end he destroyed his family "....Coppola while commenting gf2 And he wasn't lonely After he lost Kay he got diabetes, aged over night, stopped smoking drinking killing never took the ring of his finger or touched another woman for the rest of his life
