Why Did The Greek Choose Marlo Over Proposition Joe? The Wire Explained 

*Why did Avon help his nemesis Marlo? The Wire Explained:* ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ia-8f2cHXHM.html

They only know me as The Greek, and I’m not even Greek. I love that line.

Joe wanted it to be one way. But it's the other way.

Man it's funny how on every video featuring "The Wire" we all turn into English majors and character study experts 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Joe wasn't a dog deep down inside he just knew how to feed the dogs. He spent his time trying to find a bone Marlo would enjoy. He knew he was gonna get bitten soon enough which showed when he was barely surprised at his end.

This is pretty much exactly what I've always thought. The Greek doesn't really care who runs the streets and probably thinks Marlo will be easier to bargain with anyway. Marlo has shown them his hand, his plan and his willingness to adjust to their ways of doing business. He's up front and eager to prove himself. The Greek can see the hunger in Marlo and knows there is nothing that's going to stop him from shooting his shot. That's how I always interpreted his little smile at least.

i really like your wire videos. please keep making them.

CR...doing a breakdown on this truly great series just shows the type of true gangster aficionado you are! Great breakdown...Prop Joe was showing weakness all through the next to last season. The Greeks in the end didn't really care who was in charge, in all reality, what they cared about was making money and keeping out of any public fray. As was said, Baltimore was just a part of their distribution business. Marlo was the new up and coming "young turk" and they saw that and knew what the final outcome would be...it really was just that simple, Marlo was utterly ruthless, a criminal gangster force that was not going to be stopped. One of the last scenes of Marlo was leaving an upper crust business party of the upper echelon of Baltimore business and political life...he leaves and goes back to the block and snatches a corner like a street hood...dude just loved being a true vicious gangster..

The Wire is good that there's tons of RU-vid creators constantly making videos like this. Amazing show...top 5 of all time...maybe top 3.

The Greek just doesn't care. Who is irrelevant. Joe yesterday. Marlo today. Cheese tomorrow. Dealers grow like weeds.

So glad ya getting into the wire now pal.

The Greeks saw the writting on the wall, Prop Joe wasn't in the same league as the Stansfield organisation when it came to ruthlessness and violence, the Greeks knew Marlo was taking over with or without their backing. For them it's only about money loyalty doesn't come into it, Marlo's money was as green as Joe's.

When The Greek comments that Marlo "will keep coming back" he means climbers - someone gunning (literally) for the #1 spot. They know Joe's days are numbered no matter what, merely for being in business with the Greek in the first place. Thucydides Trap also implies that it's good for The Greek to let their biggest partners be taken out from time to time.

I think the Greek took into consideration that Marlo was able to force the introduction in the first place. Edit: you mentioned this the moment after I posted lol

So much thought in these video's brilliant🙌🏽

My least favorite scene in The Wire was when the Greek met face-to-face with Marlo. This might have been the 2nd or 3rd time that Marlo had met with the Greeks. In Season 2, the show already established that The Greek doesn’t meet directly with anyone unless he deems it of the utmost importance. Frank Sobotka had insisted on meeting him numerous times and was refused, despite likely being involved with them for months, if not years. And all of a sudden, after only a handful of meetings with this unknown young drug lord, the Greek decides to show his face to him. It honestly just struck me as a sign of the declining writing quality in Season 5. However, it goes to show just how incredibly good of a show The Wire was that that scene was the low point of the show for me.

Have to correct one thing near the end of this. Slim Charles did not get the connect, Avon did. “The King stays the King.” May have been Slim sitting there, but I have no doubt he was representing someone else. Someone who does feel like he has what it takes to be a CEO. I think Slim Charles replaced Stringer and Fat Face Rick took over from Prop Joe.

I’ll tell ya, when I first started watching your videos, as decisive as you are inserting quotes from the shows you cover, I’d have been proud to call you my son

To answer the video title question: Plot convenience. That's why. The Wire is one of the greatest shows ever, but it wasn't immune to bad writing. Season 5 gets worse every time I watch the series. And it was still really good compared to most shows.

You see the non verbal communication when Joe and Vondas are sitting on the bench. Joe's side his open as his left arm is on the top of the bench and his hand is opened pointing in Vondas direction in a welcoming manner. Joe is looking right at him. Not only does he trust him but he actually likes him. He considers him a friend. Vondas posture his closed, not welcoming, his right arm protects the rest of his body. He's holding his cigarette in that same hand as well. He's protecting himself by blocking the friendship and the communication. He's looking at another direction, not at Joe's. He's ready to get up and leave. He knows that relationship is coming to an end.

Looking at the comments, alot of yall looking at this the wrong way. The Greek was not some kind of godfather of drugs in Baltimore. He was one of many suppliers (although a major one, since he controlled the docks). Think about it. Dee got busted on a pickup from New Jersey. Avon got back on track through connections in D.C. and New York. Orlando got killed trying to make a side deal with suppliers in New Orleans. I-95 gives access from the north or the south, so the docks are not the only game in town. So no, the Greek would not have the pull to try to kill Marlo, just like he couldn't do sh*t when Omar robbed the shipment. Yeah, the Greek had some muscle, but nowhere near enough to take down Marlo on his own turf. A dozen or so Serbs aint gonna do sh*t in a city like Baltimore, are you kidding? Also it's not in his interest to get down on the streets. He wants to keep a low profile (which is how he stayed in the game so long). He also wants to sell to whoever is most profitable, which was Marlo. But say he did refuse... Marlo would just get a different supplier - like he did before he joined the co-op.

Because Marlo had a point. Marlo was more than just a ruthless, savage and ambitious drug dealer. There were plenty of them. What separated him was he was also smarter than people thought he was. Slim Charles saw it. "Don't sleep on Marlo." I think the greeks were impressed with Marlo's ambition and also the way he went about trying to get a line to them.

season 5 writing went to shit just as bad as GoT final season Marlo is like some silly super villain getting all the plot armor and went on killing spree and somehow everyone fkin give him everything wth

It is crazy how Prop Joe underestimated his own nephew and Marlo; and overestimated his relationship with the Greeks.

When this video shows up in your recommended before you finish the show 💔💔

i remember vondas saying there will always be another joe another marlo so they saw the nature and go with the flow as you stated

Slim warned Prop Joe but he didn't listen.

The Greeks chose Avon over Joe. Marlo was just a placeholder. Here's how: Marlo only got to meet with Sergey because Avon vouched for him. Avon likely told Sergey Marlo's plan to cut Joe & the rest of those east-side bitches out of the connect. Sergey told the Greeks the real king is in prison with him & he told him Marlo's plan. So the Greek accepted Marlo because Avon vouched for him & they already knew Joe was gonna get cut out. When Marlo had to sell the connect the Greek likely reached out to Avon through Sergey & asked him if Rick& Slim were good. Of course Avon vouched for them. Avon likely had the Greeks, Slim & Rick send his sister a few million for brokering the meet & vouching for Marlo, Slim & Rick. This is why Avon only had Marlo pay him $100k & insulted him by calling him a natural businessman. That insult flew right over Marlo's head. This is why Avon was acting over the top with that west-side BS he was doing with Marlo because Avon knew he was gonna get paid by the Greek, Slim & Rick. Slim & Rick probably cut Avon in, through his sister, for a percentage of the business rather than paying him in cash.

EXCELLENT explanation, thank you!

The fake cereal killer was the worst plot idea, they could have done something like a newspaper journalist wants to write a story on the crooked politicans, how they are scamming money. A story about the docks, a story about the failing schools and of course the drug trade. Then basically putting together that they all have similarities. Tying in the entire series!!

The Greeks already went against Joe when they helped the Sobotkas with cheese over Joe so they just choose what's best for business.

YOU HAVENT UPLOADED THE WIRE IN SO LONG WHATS UP DUDE?

it could actually also be poor writing. Season 5 was delayed by a writers strike and all shows fall apart whenever there is a writers strike.

They rushed the writing but also probably wanted to prove a point that there's no loyalty in the streets

I honestly think that it had to do with Prop Joe's weight. They knew that Prop Joe was not long for the world no matter what played out.

How Marlo is what he tried to take out the Greeks to he's such a wild card and even because due to the writing of the show maybe he was still meant to get arrested and put in jail because he was such reckless

The writing seemed rushed because they never really knew if they would get another season

Joe knew their tricks Marlo didn't.

Yes, it's a plot hole / weakness in the writing. The show had spectacular writing but I'd say this was one of it's few faults. Sure, they recognized Marlo's persistence but that doesn't excuse his many other flaws you accurately pointed out. They could just have him killed or tip off Joe and have Joe deal with it.

I don’t think it was easy to just kill Marlo, he knew he had a target on him and he always has a lot of muscle with him.

Marlo was always going to be a problem! Too much gangster,not enough business man! And Prop Joe,too much business man, definitely not enough gangster!

It was kinda inevitable that the young Marlo would break what Joe created, with a death possibility of the all heads of the history until there, and also, that Joe was almost more important or on the same balance as the Greeks for activities in Baltimore, Marlo, yeah, maybe it's kinda "easier" to deal with a type like this even with all the volatily since he was a soldier of crime almost touching the crown of the king, first he was a thug, after a critical thinker no the inverse, and people like that, for people like the Greeks, can be useful, 'cause thinking less leaves room for people like the Greeks to take care of a situation for a long time, even for the rest of their lives and beyond. Joe, could very well create other contacts, other means, use the earnings in countless ways 'cause he was in addition to a criminal, a diplomat, and turned to a critical thinker before the thug, and those possible means that could be created stuff essentially with no longer need the part of the Greeks involved.

My disclaimer is that I haven't watched this video. Just reading the comments, I'm seeing that it touches on reasons why the Greeks didn't help Joe take out Marlo or why they even did business with Marlo. Pondering on it for a quick second, I think the Greeks being informants was important because they really just wanted the top dog, but a smart one. They saw that Marlo was persistent and ruthless with an army of people who'd kill on his say so so that he could wear the crown. I think the Greeks saw that Prop Joe wouldn't be able to war with Marlo. It's funny I remember that Prop Joe tried taking Marlo in as a son just like Vondas took a liking to Nick Sobotka. They may have seen that. Either way, they knew Joe wasn't as ruthless and that Marlo wouldn't stop approaching the Greeks. They probably felt that it was best to do business with Marlo early because they knew Marlo would get rid of Joe. I think the Greeks knew that despite their coding of the clocks to trick police, they knew Marlo's sloppiness would lead to his incarceration (not to mention Avon showed he still ran things by holding Sergei from Marlo). The Greeks probably thought that it would take less resources to let Marlo's organization to get locked up than to war with them with the FBI. Notice that within a few months, they did business with 3 people:Joe, Marlo, then a smarter Slim Charles. Marlo was a means to get to someone smart like Joe, but younger to see things now that the streets are different.

Great analysis 👍

The greek had way more manpower than Marlo, he could've silenced him and his crew while keeping a steady sail with Joe. Doesn't really make sense to me.

Remember Marlow never even gets to make the connection if not for Avon setting it up and Avon ultimately saying that even though they had beef he still prefer an east side Baltimore do to have the power over a west side Baltimore dude Job was from the west side

Why? Because that's not how things work...especially when you rely on the local scene to move the weight you are selling. The only time Lower Level Beefs matter is when they can potentially be tied back to you. Joe was a Liability that was always going to be eliminated. Proposition Joe was known for making deals, and the little prequel short for him shows him snitching when someone didn't take his deal on School Yard Test Cheating. They knew that if Prop Joe ever got caught up, he'd give them up...there is a reason Joe never got caught up in any of the stings, it isn't said on the Show but I wouldn't be surprised if Joe was a Federal Informant. L

He saw 2pqc and lilpaht at the same time that's why it's hard too dodge a marlo in a good way when it comes to buisness

Joe problem was his lack of foresight *you can’t lead a man who wants it all* Joe shoulda been on “get down or lay down” typa time

Joe’s first mistake was telling Marlo he would introduce him to the connect, the scene when the shipment got robbed and marlo wanted to “talk” to cheese in other words get violent and prop joe basically said no because he’s family even though cheese really messed up but if it was somebody else that individual would have been dealt with. Marlo started to realize prop joe weakness. Prop joe I understand he was looking out for his nephew but his nephew was so grimy and shady he backstabbed him

Slim tried to warn Joe that Marlo was shady

All the scenes with the Greek sitting at the counter listening in on conversations are wonderful.

RIP Mr.Chew .Prop Joe.He was a excellent actor and acting coach.Taught them young men the acting profession.💯

After all the points you made in this video, I think it does actually make a lot more sense then I remember it. If the Greeks tipped off Joe, and Joe lost, then they would have been having to deal with the repercussions. The fact Marlo knew who they were, the fact Joe just got his shipment taken, and the fact that Avon vouched for Marlo, and Marlo had proven himself relentless in his pursuit of their business… all of those things showed to the Greek that Joe’s time was more than likely coming to a close. Any attempt to try and change the inevitable would potentially involve them in street conflict that they clearly worked to avoid at all costs. Great video.

too many people will never understand the genius of proposition joe, he understood the deal, theres always a product to sell. why not make a deal? hes the personification of the essence of The Merchant, when some might just kill or betray him, he instead protects himself with deals and propositions that make solutions like that less appealing.

Marlo is simply an "Absolute" and the Greeks know that. Someone who can't be bought, can't be reasoned with etc... He represents the game in the most literal way possible. His last scene proves all of that. He's on top of the world and it still means shit. Its the cyclical nature of the game(Hence the rim shop, the ring and his last act on the series.)

As Slim Charles says “Game the same, just got more fierce”. Marlo was inevitable but his downfall came even faster due to his violent nature. You can see in the shows last montage that Slim Charles became the next Joe. Life goes on

The Greek knew Marlo would kill Joe even without their blessing. Vondas was not pleased but Greek was just thinking about this reality

I think it was a product of the 5th season being the last and cut from 13 to 10 episodes. They shortened a season in which they had so many storylines to finish. The last season could have been made into 2 separate seasons. The writers strike no doubt had something to do with it

Because Marlo Left the Greeks with an Ultimatum… “Well Do it or Don’t.”

Joe thought he could “civilize” Marlo to keep a mayor gangwar from happening for the control of Baltimore… teach him the ropes and maybe keep him satisfied. But Joe didn’t understand how ruthless and ambitious Marlo was and that was his downfall. The Greeks knew that; as long as someone is there to buy from them and they keep their hands clean then business would continue, and it did without Joe or Marlo, new faces would take over the old ones

the greeks didn't chose anything.. the streets chose marlo, the greek didn't have much of a choice, prop joe was going to go regardless, eventually.

What I love most about Season 2 is how you get a real depiction of how unrealistic it is to try an stop the drug war because you have corrupted FBI agents in cahoots with the drug lords themselves.

Joe's horrible mistake with the shipment had him reveal his supplier to a lecherous fiend like Marlo was the beginning of his end. But the crown that Marlo wanted so much was simply a paper crown, he approached 2 little peewees and asked if they knew who he was they cussed him out and knifed him and busted a few shells at him narrowly missing their mark. Nobody remembered or revered him like he thought they would hence why he handed out money to school kids.. the game he realized is not a faithful girlfriend

Prop Joe and Cheeses relationship is another perfect example of why love and family/blood are often overvalued by so many people. Loyalty is much more valuable especially in a world like the one portrayed in the wire “You can love someone and stab them in the back. But a loyal person could never do the same!”

Because prop joe wasn't a part of their organization. He was a customer. The Greeks can do what they do anywhere. Part of the reason Marlo was so swift and ruthless is because he knew he had to have all of his ducks in a row before he even approached the Greeks. Otherwise, they would've just left.

The fact that Marlo was even sitting there was the nail in Joes coffin. The Greek realized the only consistency is change and to stay ahead of it was key.

Season 5 was rushed through because the creators of "The Wire" were told it wasn't gonna be a Season 6. So they had to close all "loose ends"

Proposition Joe’s death was cheesy. Slim Charles avenged Joe by turning Cheese into Swiss.

You can rewatch the Wire many, many times, then come on RU-vid and watch all of the clips, and after the countless hours of all that... You can move into the analysis videos and spend countless more hours there. It just never ends. The show has so many layers to it. I don't think anything else will top it.

The Greek, not Vondas was only concerned about business moving forward. It didn’t matter whom they supplied. With Marlo, his sole mission was to “Wear The Crown” so it didn’t matter whom he stepped over/removed to reach that goal. In their respective finals scenes, The Greek went back to being the unassuming old man listening while Vondas handled the business, while Marlo, even though on the doorstep of true wealth, walks away and takes a corner. Knowing that he could never Wear The Crown again but he go back into the shadows because in truth no one knew him

You mentioned the writing in season 5. Around that time I was on the train in New York and saw herc’s partner and I started talking to him on why season 5 was taking so long to come out. He told me the delay was due to the writers strike that was going on in Hollywood. So that’s why everything may have seemed rushed because the writers just came back and the dynamics must’ve fell off.

When the Greeks trusted marlo that was the moment that took Me out of the series. Everything in the show was possible in real life but that In Real life you don't trust someone new. Sorry you don't that shit can take down Everything it was dumb it was lazy to write

What happened to Proposition Joe? Just ran out of time.

I couldn't understand why why Prop Joe just didn't have Marlo eliminated. He could've hire brother Mouzone to do the job because Marlo is a maverick who will only bring heat on the entire game. Despite being Machiavellan he didn't believe in playing by the rules which wouldn't sit well with OG's who do.

Joe getting killed made sense. He had overplayed his card with how he used Omar to his advantage just like Stringer overplayed his scheeming. But the Greek going into business with Marlo even before he had killed Prop Joe made NO sense at all. They knew how rare it was to have a dependable customer like Prop Joe. He was unique and that took away a lot of heat for the organisation. They would have either killed Marlo outright or gave Prop Joe a hint to what was happening. Never ever would they have ditched a perfect business liason for years to some upcoming gansta risking a huge market. They would have been doing their homework on Marlo and seen what a loose cannon he was. Still Marlo worked as a plot device to drive forward the plot. Lets not forget last season was by far the weakest season and Simon made quite some huge mistakes in character development and narrative drive. For me The Wire is S1-4 everything and S5 just some small parts like them chasing Marlo through investigative work. The whole press angle was pasted on and McNulty and the homeless murders was pathetic how they mistreated the McNulty character.

The actor who played Marlo really had the eyes for it. In every interaction, his eyes give away his position. I notice he stares and studies anyone he wants to read and simultaneously puts off that message through his gaze that he is to be taken seriously. Interesting is that there are times when he doesnt maintain eye contact after a cursory glance. You can tell these are people he has read quickly and dismisses as weak. The security guard he has killed and Bodie initially though he does make eye contact later when he sees what Bodie does with the corner.

Wire is my favorite series ever by far but... It's a poor excuse that the Greek worked with Marlo just bc he wouldn't take no for an answer...if that's the case that means the Greeks are pretty much saying ",we will risk our freedom and do business with anyone as long as they keep coming and asking us.. against our wishes to add" ..who ever has the plug will b very rich..so people will constantly be coming after the spot...by saying yes to Marlo they are saying we will do business with whoever keeps coming...unrealistic

“Him we don't know, but the one he calls boss. Him we know"

Love this analysis. I completely agree with you. Marlo wasn't one to put money first, power was most important to him. This is why Joe had to go, he had a strong control over the co-op and that made him a threat. So with or without the connect, Marlo would have killed Prop Joe. With the Greeks, he stood to make more money because their dope was higher quality, but if they refused to do business with him, he'd have just killed Joe and gone back to selling his low quality stuff. Marlo's power wasn't from the quality of his dope, it was cos he had a monopoly that he created by being ruthless.

Season 5 was written crappy because it was the final season,everything was rushed,the characters deaths to the fake killer.

Really loving your Wire coverage. It's a show I've watched thoroughly a half dozen times and have had close to two decades to think on, and you still hit on something that I hadn't even considered. Bravo!

They knew Marlo was going to take Joe out after the second time Marlo showed up at restaurant, the didn’t choose Marlo. Joe messed up by introducing him, but all it would of took was for Marlo to get a good whole seller, an Joe would of still been a target. The game caught up with Joe he made a lot of mistakes with Marlo, an it caused him

RIP Robert F Chew.

A lot of overthinking and a lot of naive comments in the commentary. The Greeks were wholesalers. It doesn’t matter to them if Walmart or Amazon is the top retailer, as long as they’re the ones supplying them. That’s for starters. They don’t really care who’s buying as long as someone is buying. As the season showed, once Marlo was arrested, the Greeks were still out there supplying the next group. Their business doesn’t stop. This builds on top of the next issue which is discussed in the video. Marlo was not going to stop. If they denied him, he’d still take out Joe, then just go back to selling the stuff he was moving from his old supplier. Right? It’s how he made money this whole time. He doesn’t need the Greeks. In the meantime, the entire co-op would then be selling the product from Marlo’s old supplier, and he may have quiet possibly took out the Greeks just to be spiteful (as he was shown to be). What I’m getting at it the Greeks needed Marlo to play along or their goal of having buyers would end during his reign. Marlo did not need the Greeks.

I always felt Joe doing so much for Marlo and showing the connect and all that felt really out of place for Joe as a character

I always wondered why when Marlo came to them especially with their smooth operation with Joe that they wouldnt just dime him out to Prop Joe and have him removed. From a business standpoint dealing with Marlo was a terrible idea for them

prop joe was an interesting character shame he was running modern day Judas.

Excellent analysis. Marlo might be a ruthless thug but he had a similar soft spoken and calm and calculating manner to the Greek. He was the opposite of Cheese. I agree with you. Marlo would have returned. He was younger than Joe who was a bit overweight and who knows how his health was. If Joe had died of natural causes they wouldn't have wanted to deal with Cheese.

this is a question I never considered why would the Greeks work with Marlo it was strictly business they may have liked Joe but they never cared who wore the crown in Baltimore if it was Avon, Marlo , Joe ,or slim as long as they had somebody they could reasonably trust who was capable of moving their product and made sure they got their money that was the only thing that mattered to them

Entirely wrong question to ask. The greeks didn't care about the street or their name ringing out. The real question is why didn't the Greeks tell Prop Joe that the youngun was trying to double-cross him. Joe could've taken Marlo out himself.

Think its time for Prop Joe to seriously considering salads

I think while the storyline of how Marlo cut out Joe may seem weird, it actually mirrors real life - especially in business. In business a bad decision doesn’t always reveal itself immediately. It may even look like the right decision at first. Only as time passes are the impacts of that bad decision felt and then lots of things can really change really quickly.

Love that you're really getting into The Wire CR, I see a lot of great videos coming our way, so many storylines to explore! I recently caught up on all your interview videos, and in the one with Sopranos Theories you mention The Wire and that it's worth a watch, but you won't put it up there with The Sopranos just yet. That was my opinion as well on my first viewing, but on my second viewing I put the on equal footing, and by the third viewing The Wire had surpassed The Sopranos for me. Wonder if you'll have a similar experience.

I wanna know why Avon didn't trying to get to the Greeks instead of help marlo get it, the connection was worth more than a 100 thousand

Greeks didn't do street level business because it was bad for business.

The Greek saw himself in Marlo, and understood what Marlo was trying to and eventually going to do Because it probably mirrored his own rise to kingpin status Simply put...He respected Marlo

The Greeks were powerful as hell but i don't think they really could kill him or at least they won't win nothing out of it only more problems so for them it's simpler to do business with him that with joe

My favorite season was #2 which everytime I tell people they say Oh man that was the worst. If you guys like The Wire watch a series called the corner which is also based in Baltimore with a lot of the same actors only 6 episodes but awesome 👌

That’s not actually true that the Greeks don’t get involved with the streets. A few members have gotten into street stuff before as favor to someone else. Ziggy getting money for cheese burning his car and being out of his debt was one of em