Hi all! Thanks so much for watching this video and I'm glad so many of you have found it interesting. I do have a few corrections to mention: 1. In this video I erroneously refer to Charles Lightoller as Titanic's First Officer. He was in fact replaced by William Murdoch in this capacity and re-designated as the Second Officer for the voyage. 2. I also refer to water pressure as increasing exponentially; this is incorrect, it increases linearly with depth.
Nice outfit! Are you wearing clothing that matches the uniforms of White Star Lines? If so, is there an episode of your show where you talk about what you are wear and the White Star Line uniforms?
@@TomBatemanRT85 Hey Tom! I dress in s fairly old-fashioned way in my videos, the kind of outfit a chap would wear during the day at any point from about 1900-1950. That said there were some real nuances of Edwardian menswear that would be really interesting to go through!
@@OceanlinerDesigns the outfit looks good on you. It’s a nice touch for your videos. I would love to see a video about the uniforms of the White Star Line.
That happened to a woman on the Lusitania, albeit with the funnel itself and not the uptake hole. She was pounded by the water and covered in soot...but she actually survived.
I don’t think I have ever seen a video about the funnel collapse. This was thought provoking and your arguments were convincing. Thank-you for posting.
My dad worked on the Queen Mary, it had a few surviving staff from the Titanic working on it. One talked about the funnel falling down as the biggest noise throughout the event, as it was generally otherwise a steady and relatively 'peaceful' sinking. Movies stories and papers have spiced it up far more than how it really was like. People too were on the whole were patient and calm just waiting for their time. The understanding was you could use the lifeboats or just jump overboard with your life preserver and paddle over to a boat as the sea was completely calm and not that uninviting (which is what he indeed did). The total cold of the water however wasn't understood by the passengers and many hesitated and left it late when the ship was at an angle. The lifeboats too had moved quite far away making swimming to them near impossible before you quietly froze :-(. He was most annoyed however not with the sinking but after the event, as White Star stopped their pay from the moment the ship sank, that pissed him off more than anything else.
One of the fortunate things about the world today is if a company tried to pull some bs like stopping the payment in the case of a disaster, they would get hammered in the 24 hours news cycle.
@@electrickrain Nah, he does have some merit to that claim. The media tend to drum everything up, so even when they "support your narrative", you still end up as the loser, while they just made a heck of a lot of money off of your case/narrative. They really just have to show up, do an interview, run it as the press that they are and then they can make bank, while all the fighting, trouble, problems, economic loss, personal loss, etc. is left to you. And you're forced to accept it, as you know your case have little to no chances of being heard, if you don't sell your soul to the media. I'm not saying that the media should foot the bill more or pay out to victims, but they should show a bit more compassion when they're making bank on peoples misery. A lot of modern media is the equivalent of early 1900's corporations when it comes to caring about people.
One theory I’ve seen comes from when they were filming the 1997 Titanic movie. During the production, they found that they couldn’t get collapsible lifeboats C and D onto the davits with the shroud cables in place and they had to remove them. It’s theorized that Lightoller and Ismay would have had to do something similar, leading to the cables being released, weakening the funnel shroud.
@@Welv1987 Eh, they would have been relatively cold by that point. If water is coming up from the inside, the boilers have been cold for a good while and with an OAT of around 0°C it wouldn't take much for them to cool down before the water gets to them. They just weren't built for this kind of load.
I’m so glad these beautiful walls of iron are getting the recognition they deserve from channels like you. Thanks and I wish your channel good luck in the future! You gained a well-deserved new sub today.
@@treystephens6166 hard to say possibly crushed being so deep down and the funnels are thin skinned so they likely are there just collapsed and hard to recognize possibly even buried in mud
I never thought about the funnels internal structure, but that makes sense. Assuming that the inside of the funnels was like a column of air that suddenly was filled with water is a logic explanation why funnels 1 and 2 collapsed.
I THINK he's saying the interior of the funnels was Empty of water and therefore the growing water pressure on the exterior of the funnels caused a structural failure....exterior water pressure pushed the foot of the funnels off their seats leaving black gaping holes leading to the very bottom of the ship, filled with nothing....the water poured in taking some with it into the literally coal black depths....
@@manuelkong10 Correct they would have basically been pinched at the base and imploded. The water level inside can lag behind significantly for the simple reason that water needs to find a way in and air needs to find a way out. As the sinking progresses in speed you can get large differences in pressure as a result until structures begin failing as a result and creating new openings.
The production quality of this video is top-notch. Such a well presented, well narrated and visually pleasing video that's easy to follow along too. Well done my man.
Having to slacken the support lines to account for the chimneys expanding with the heat of use is pretty crazy. It’s always interesting to learn of all the little parts that make up massive endeavors
The trouble with this theory is that the outer funnels which were providing the mounting structure had no contact with the hot gas and would have already been freezing from the ambient outside temperature.
@@OceanlinerDesigns I'm just now brand new to your site and wow, I'm impressed by this analysis. I had heard of other theories of why the funnels fell, but never this one about the inner casings being damaged by the water pressure from within internally compromising the funnels from the inside out. Fascinating and very well presented and laid out. I'm a fan of your channel and have just subscribed. Thank you for sharing these videos with the rest of us. I'm a lifelong Titanic follower and really appreciate the work you put into your presentation. Thank you for doing what you do!
I heard that John Jacob Astor was killed by the first funnel in the water, I can't even imagine what that would be like, they know this as his body was crushed and was covered in suite. I actually admire the Chinese man that was found standing on a table in the middle of the Atlantic ocean, what a great way to survive. Unfortunately for him his family class him a coward as he survived as so many died. I think that's really cruel and horrible 😢
I don’t think that’s the Chinese man who’s family hated him I think it was a Japanese man who fell into a lifeboat and stayed in it it was his community that hated him as he got away instead of staying on the ship and going down with the ship they labelled him a coward and shamed him
I mean that for an object as tall as a six-story building the plating was comparatively thin, thin enough that without support the structures collapse flat and 'pancake', as seen during Berengaria's scrapping. ~Mike
I cannot imagine what it was like for the people in the water struggling to survive and look up and see those enormously huge funnels falling down. I know a lot of people were crushed when those came down😢😢😢❤️❤️❤️
D’oh! Who'd have thought a gigantic ocean liner’s funnel system would be so complicated! Funnels the great have fallen, have fallen. It was horrific, every time I think about what happened on that ship that night, I am deeply saddened.
Just imagine the pure terror a person would feel getting sucked back in the ship in pitch black darkness ... Idk what would get you first the cold, or drowning, or a heart attack
I bet you're one of those people who watches that animated video of Titanic sinking in real time without once looking away from the screen - like me! :) Lovely video. I look forward to perusing for similarly interesting content. All the best ♡
Very good and informative video! By the way, I could suggest you to talk about why in the popular media, the sinking of the Titanic was always represented as the ship sinking in a single piece, like the movie "A Night To Remember" from 1958 that you showed scenes in the video. Why It wasn't until the discovery of the wreck in 1985 when we started to see the sinking with the breakup in the popular media? Implying we had testimonies of people saying that they watched the ship split in two, that would be a great video idea!
That's a great idea. It seems survivor testimony was overwhelmingly leaning towards some kind of breakup - but that they were largely ignored or dismissed. ~Mike
@@OceanlinerDesigns this is true. Renunciation of such testimony might be explained by the psychological condition known as 'confirmation bias' - the concept applied here is that to the general public as well as the juridic benches, the largest man-made floating object could not possibly break apart considering her complex advancements in marine engineering. It's further interesting to reflect on the fact that while many eyewitness testimonies conveyed the reality of break-up, the investigative bodies which heard this on both sides of the Atlantic turned a blind eye. Was it a final line? A ship of Titanic's proportions might succumb to the forces of nature in sinking but was the idea that she might disintegrate at the very end just too much to bear? That debate aside, we should all remind ourselves of the incredible resilience of a ship and crew that kept their girl alight until the last minutes. That IS incredible!
I had always heard that the White Star Line didn't want the public to think that their ship construction was weaker than their competitors, so they hid the witness testimony saying that the Titanic broke in half from the public consciousness.
@@fnaffoxy1987 Young Jack Thayer's drawings of the ship breaking in two still survive today. He drew what he witnessed from his lifeboat, but were generally disregarded on account of his youth, and lack of corroboration from others. Maybe he just had better night vision.
Excellent video I've learned many points today the detail you gave was top notch and the way you explained it all made it easy for me to understand thank you my grandson who is fascinated by the titanic is now watching this
Another Superb video from the OP - learnt so much from this on maritime ship design and with OP's superb diagram, explanation every thing makes sense on ship design going back to 1900's onwards and extra information on what happened during the Titanic disaster; rip to the 1500 who died on 14-15th April 1912 (hit icebery 14/4/1912 around 11:30).
One thing to clarify, a funnel collapse is a very uncommon thing to happen; another thing to take in mind is that the funnels are built differently depending on what ship yard it was built in, a good example of this would be the Cunard line ship's Lusitania and Carpathia. Cunard line vessels had the funnels assembled in smaller sections aboard the ship and were not pre-assembled. the vessel, Lusitania demonstrates this well since during her sinking, her funnels only gave away after the sinking. Carpathia also demonstrates the same considered her sinking was photographed.
@Matthew Turner There are cases which the stacks did indeed fall on people, now there is a rumor that when 3 and 4 gave away, one of the cables ended up chopping someone in half. Given it was pitch black at the time this occurred makes this an interesting topic. ALSO one more thing about suction created by the uptakes, i know that people would have gotten sucked in but at the speed that these uptakes were filing up, the chances are that a person sucked in could swim back up after a few seconds. the whole space would have been filled up too quickly for any real chances of getting stuck in the uptake are pretty small.
@@TimCan144 Didn't something like that happen to someone on the Lusitania, ie that they were briefly captured by the vortex falling into one of the funnels but I think were reportedly blown out shortly thereafter. That last part suggests an airlock of some kind formed and temporarily disrupted flow until the large bubble of compressed gas could escape. Yes actually I just checked this was included in the testimony of Mrs. Herbert Linford Gwyer (Margaret Inglis Adams Cairns).
I know that my comment might seem stupid, but I'm simply mindblown about the amount of details in your videos. I would have never even started to think about how exactly the funnels worked, but now I know. It's amazing work that you do. Liked & subscribed.
You make an interesting point here, I thought that when those guy wires broke outside the ship while she got much lower in the water, that was what caused the number 1 and a little later number 2 funnel to fall over. However, it was because of the weight of water getting inside the ship that pushed the inner funnel casings in instead that made the guy wires break, then there wasn't any support and the funnels started to fall over the side of the ship.
Thanks for posting! Love your content on all your video posts. I recall Robert Ballard saying that there is no sign of any of the funnels anywhere in the debris field of Titanic and have often wondered what happened to them and where are they? Thanks again for posting, great work!
MB, Thank you for another great video. A semi-related subject that interests me is how the wreckage on the ocean floor came to have the upper decks deflected downward and the sides of the hull bulged outward at the break. I've seen all manner of explanations, such as the idea that the bow section somehow angled upward to crush the upper decks following the breakup. My own theory can be illustrated by taking the cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels and bending it. The cross section of the tube ovals with the shorter axis being in the plane of the bend. This happens with any thin-wall tube section regardless of whether it is circular or rectangular. None of the animations I've seen of the breakup show this phenomenon. -GV
Coulda been a possible small scale boiler explosion possibly from boiler room 3 maybe not being entirely evacuated or put out at the time the funnel began to fall
Jut seeing this now, just subscribed to your channel. Been studying WSL and CL since a teen and never had read or seen detailed info on the funnels. THANK YOU. Love your illustrations of Lusitania, which to me, is a more compelling, more heartbreaking story. Your detailed description and illustration of the Lusitania's structure is wonderful. Always wondered what all the devices, and stays and skylights, etc., were named and what purpose they served. THANK YOU.
Very informative video! I have another question about the Titanic disaster thinking of the break-apart - was there any possibility of the broken-off stern remaining afloat? My understanding of what happened (at least according to the "steep breakup theory" most widely accepted) is that the upper decks tore apart but bottom plates remained attached, the quickly-plunging bow section dragged the stern down into a vertical orientation before separating, causing the stern to rapidly sink. But what if those plates had separated cleanly when the ship broke, could the now-detached stern, with the watertight doors closed, have floated, allowing something to stay aboard until rescue arrived? There's been other stories I've heard of of ships breaking in half and at least one of the halves remaining afloat for quite a while, could that have happened here?
On a sea of glass is a book which has its own theory to the breakup. It has looked at so much evidence and testimonies and put together a video, by part-time explorer (a real time sinking). It has time stamps so you can go to the breakup or plunge timestamp. Roy Mengot was an engineer for Titanic and made a theory similar to on a sea of glass, but on a sea of glass also looks more at tension stresses. Here are the links for the video: On a sea of glass: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PboGLRAEwFU.html Roy Mengot (in depth): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ggu5Moi2GEM.html Basically, On a sea of glass takes more time, with the stern "afloat" longer, and Roy Mengot takes its time when the sternn goes near vertical. These are highly accurate theories.
Yes and no. The ship broke into 4 big pieces we see that in the debrie filed. Also think about how much stress the stern was under bending and stuff the water tight doors was probably getting bent and warped out of shape so even if it did break clean off it probably would have still sunk
@@jessehassell1864 True - probably a lot of rivets popped out, bulkheads distorted and cracked, and so on, as well as the watertight doors. Perhaps could have floated for a little while longer, maybe long enough for the Carpathia to arrive, but not indefinitely.
@@quillmaurer6563 yes that could have happened also more people could have been saved if that did happen. There's also another theory I also had. None of the engineers survived they started to keep the lights on. I'm thinking that because the stern was dry and to have easier access to stuff that maybe the engineers opened some of the water tight doors to get around easier. That explains why also the stern sunk so fast after it broke up. Just a thought I've had for awhile
@@jessehassell1864 Good point, hadn't thought of that. I'm guessing none of them considered the ship breaking in half, and of course by the time it did (at least assuming the high-angle breakup theory, not the shallow breakup theory some have proposed) everyone would have assumed it was on it's final plunge. Though even with the shallow breakup theory, probably nobody noticed the cracks until it was already way too late.
Perhaps the four loud explosions heard within the ship as it sank was actually the implosion of the funnel casings? Shortly thereafter it makes sense that the funnel would fail..
@@adriwidjaja True. By the time funnels 2 and 3 failed, I imagine that many parts of the ship were failing and the noise created would make it difficult to know exactly what is breaking and where. Plus, I don't think many people midship, and aft survived. However, there were more than a few survivors who were near the bow section and close to funnel one and they are the source of these reports of muffled explosions deep inside the ship. Making the assumption it was boilers seemed very logical to me, until I saw this presentation. After watching this, I think it is also equally reasonable to consider that at least one of those explosions was actually the implosion of the casing around the number one funnel. Impossible to know for sure, but it is at least a reasonable speculation given the construction details. Keep in mind this, the WSL successfully suppressed from the public the first hand eye witness accounts of the ship splitting apart. Who knows what else might have been dismissed or simply ignored in testimony from passengers. Plus, all of those eye witnesses are traumatized.
This video shows that funnels are more than cylindrical structures that vent smoke out of the ship. You did well. However, there is one detail that you got wrong: While Charles Lightoller did sign on to the _Titanic_ as first officer, the transfer of Henry Wilde from _Olympic_ to _Titanic_ caused Chief Officer Murdoch to be bumped down to first officer, and First Officer Lightoller was "demoted" to second officer. David Blair, the original second officer, was transferred elsewhere, not yet knowing of his good fortune. I am under the impression that the two aft funnels fell for different reasons: Funnel four likely fell due to the momentum of the stern falling back, while the third funnel collapsed because the ship broke apart from beneath it. On a final note, if you owned a shipping line, what naming convention and livery would your ships' hulls and especially funnels have?
Good catch on Mr Lightoller - can you tell I have spent too much time thinking about the mechanics and structure and not enough time thinking about the personalities? Haha I think you're right about Number 3 - the superstructure - and casings, or "seating" as Mr Wilding puts it - likely just disintegrated beneath it. I like your question! I am Australian so would name them after our gulfs and bays.. SS Otway, SS Carpentaria, SS Denham. I am thinking dark green funnel with a golden band. :) ~Mike
Your artwork has helped me a lot with my own artwork of ships, and I thank you for that. It's rather telling that there are groups of people in any subject where, while they can and do know a lot about each other's strengths, some specialize in technical aspects and others can remember the details of the stories. And these people compliment each other's shortcomings to create an endgoal greater than any one of them. My digital sketches have many different namesakes, but the ships of my hypothetical line, which I've dubbed the United States Motor Mail Company, would be named after the chemical elements. Each group of elements, like the Halogens or the Noble Gases, have their ships as sister ships to each other. As I find the prefix "SS" to be both cliché and outdated, almost all the ships in the fleet are powered by diesel motors, with two types of exceptions: Ships whose namesakes exist in a gaseous state at room temperature, like the _Argon_ and the _Nitrogen,_ are powered by gas turbines, and as such have the prefix "GTS." Any elements whose isotopes are all radioactive have their corresponding ships have the prefix "NS," for nuclear ship. Their liveries consist of a dark cyan keel and a white hull, with a gold band separating the hull from the superstructure. The funnels would be cyan with a white band topped in black, probably because cyan is my favorite color. I did not think it through having gold on white. These ships, with many others, can be found on my Facebook and DeviantArt pages, Maritime Artwork of Daniel Huffman. www.deviantart.com/shipping-architect And now I feel guilty for advertising my sketches on your channel....
Loved it , i really think now how interesting and challenging must have been designing it . For content and future videos you could talk about some ideas of what would like " future " models of transatlantic ships .
Probably because the funnels are far weaker than the ship structure, as mentioned in the video they were only a half inch thick plating or something, while the hull plates were much thicker. Funnels were more of a decorative piece, and only needed to carry exhaust gases, so they didn't need to be strong, and being so tall and high they need to be lightweight to avoid the ship being too top-heavy. I wonder if they also tended to rust out on ships in service quicker than everything else? I know that's one of the faster-rusting components on cars (except those that are stainless steel for this reason), as they have hot gas flowing through them that tends to burn off any protective coating or paint, heat speeds corrosion, and car exhaust is moist. Not sure if coal would have the same problems as coal smoke isn't as moist, and the soot might create somewhat of a protective coating on the inside - not to mention that corrosion is a major problem on ships as a whole due to being in salt water.
@@quillmaurer6563 I believe there would have been a fair bit of corrosion inside the funnels over time due to the heat and paint failing from that and the high amount of sulphur from the coal being corrosive
Simple… The cables holding them in place, were not designed to withstand that much weight, so they snapped…the cables were only there to easy the forces of nature they’d face on a level sea, but the ship was at a minimum angle of 40 degrees…it’s all simple math.
This explains the aft two funnels - that's pretty much what he said - but the forward two collapsed far sooner, at no greater angle than would be expected in rough seas. He explained all that in the video.
I have to admit that I had become bored with any Titanic discussion,at times it seemed her sinking was the only maritime disaster to have ever occurred. However,I find your take on the sinking with particular attention to the physics of the sinking to be very interesting. I’m interested in all things maritime and glad I found your channel.
I’m not an engineer, but I know a little about structural loads and stress. The stacks were designed to withstand the loads imposed by wind and air resistance as the ship was underway, so most of the loads (not all, of course) would be from the front quarter. The weight of the funnels would be supported by the structure of the ship, which would be a compression load with a component of a shear load. As the ship sank and the angle increased, more of the load would be in shear, which overloaded whatever held the stack to the ship. Those with greater knowledge should jump in and correct me as needed!
This theory provided in this video makes perfect sense and i would actually extend it to the fourth funnel aswell here's why: funnels one and two collapse from water pressure makes sense. Funnel 3 collapses because it is in the breakup zone, makes sense. Funnel 4 collapses due to just the gravity of the stern falling back, unlikely as you said these funnels where built not to fall off in rough seas instead i think the funnel stayed attached after the breakup and only collapsed as the stern was plunging downard and it rather quickly smashed into the sea tearing it off from the force of the impact and also water pressure.
I agree, I think the 4th funnel remained long standing after the breakup as no one said it fell and several said it remained long standing post breakup. The design of the 4th funnel would allow for this to happen. Since it’s remains are near the stern and the only one who said it fell was drunk, we concluded it came off during the descent
On many steam ships that have sank, the funnels always collapsed. Except the Lusitania, apparently the funnels stayed attached to the ship until it hit the sea floor and are gone now. In fact on a lot of shipwrecks the funnels usually are one of the first things to go it seems, I’m guessing they’re not very durable compared to other components of a ship? Britannic’s funnels are still around in the wreck.
The pressure being the main cause makes a lot of sense. I had always assumed that maybe the expansion joint flexed so much that the cables broke and that caused the funnel to fall, but thinking about where the cables are attached to the deck in regards to the expansion joint, I was never convinced my theory was correct. I just couldn't think of a more plausible reason. But your video really got me thinking about how I had probably underestimated just how much pressure that various parts of the ship were being put under. It can be easy to forget that even when the ship hasn't sunk that deep yet, the forces acting on it can be insanely strong.
Wow, you're the one for the job! Excellent voice, accent and clarity of speech; your Germen sounds awesome; you dress thr part and manage to look both "of the period" and a man of today. Well researched, well presented.
It always seem to me that the breaking of the forward expansion joint contributed to the failure of funnel #1. The funnel, I think, was secured by wires both forward and aft of the break and, at very least, the break would have contributed to the weakening of the rivets running at the deck line. To me, this expansion joint failure was also evidence supporting the failure of the aft expansion joint which, again my opinion, is the most likely culprit in the breaking of the hull on the surface in the opposite direction as is commonly believed. Thanks, I enjoy your videos and your love of these great old ships and the tremendous work that went into them. I share that.
I'm always amazed by how much attention is paid to the minutiae of the sinking. Not that I don't love it, just that it's funny. In any other event like this, nobody asks questions like "When did the big piece detach?" or "Did the stern go straight down or at an angle?" or "What happened to the deck chairs after they were rearranged?"
Excellent video, thanks. I've always been interested in this ship, like many people. I would often discuss it with my uncle, who one night worked out that his great uncles cousin was Captain Smith. Fascinating to have a connection like that, even it it was quite tenuous.
Thank you very much for another great video! My hypothesis for the funnel collapse is pretty similar to yours: As soon as the funnel's bases were submerged in the water, they produced a buoyancy for with they were not designed (what for, anyway!), tearing them off their bases and falling.
Thanks for the site, some very interesting stuff! One nit, however, water pressure doesn't increase exponentially with depth, it increases linearly; at twice the depth the pressure will be double, not four times (or by whatever exponent); at 33 feet the pressure will be about 15psi (1 bar), at 66 feet it will be about 30psi (2 bar), etc.
Your video is one of the most fascinating accounts of how funnels were built and operated. In spite of studying about ships for over 50 years I never knew half of what you talked about here. Thanks for the fascinating information.
Fairly new to this channel but have to say you are very informative and interesting. There's a difference between enthusiast and expert when it comes to RU-vid channels, you are definitely the latter.
I'm not particularly interested in turn of the century marine engineering, but I like hearing people talk about it with some interest and conviction. I enjoyed this video.
There were easily over a hundred people in that area trying to get onto the last lifeboats. Between water being sucked into vents, funnel hole, grand staircase, and the funnel falling, this area was a death trap. I believe this is how the officers in that area died. The fidley vent was opened to the boiler room. A large open void with all that water flowing into it. Thats why the ship sank so fast after that. Lightoller o ly survived due to the push of hot air n steam from the boiler rooms. One survivors account was that when the wave washed over the deck, he found himself surrounded by the hair of women, and the bodies of womem and children. Chilling.
IDK what it is but your videos have sparked a deep interest in Vintage ship disatsters and hostory. Ive always been a railway/automotive buff myself, but i have a new found fasination with the world of maritime.
Can't imagine what it would be like to get sucked down into the ship's boiler. You're already in trouble from the ship sinking itself but now you're doomed for sure.
