Why Didn't the Eagles Fly Frodo to Mount Doom? Middle-earth Explained 

Even before watching the video I already know the answer. They were too busy recording their hit "Hotel California"

as Tokien being a Catholic, i believe treated them as angels and only involved themselves when truely needed

Why Elrond didn't kick Isildur in the balls and destroy the ring himself 3000 years earlier ? At some point you just have believe for the sake of enjoyment.

"Be careful, both of you. The enemy has many spies in his service - birds, beasts." -Gandalf (from the films) I'm sure the spies of Mordor or even Isengard (Saruman knew that the Eagles had already aided Gandalf in his escape of Orthanc) would have noticed an entire flock of Eagles flying so far from their homes in the Misty Mountains and would have reported the strange behavior to their respective masters. Plus, let's not overestimate the scope of the Fellowship's knowledge. While Gandalf was the wisest among them, even he couldn't have known the full extent of Sauron's capabilities or allies. The only certainty was that being known or even suspected by the enemy would be a very, very bad thing, and flying across Middle Earth, even partway, would have been about the best way, just short of calling up Sauron on a Palantir, to reveal the whole mission to him. This is why the Fellowship took on the guise of a band of unassuming travelers. It's easy for people to look back on stories like this with their narrative hindsight glasses on. But it's important to remember to put yourself in the shoes of the characters at the respective times in the story, and to take into account both their knowledge, or lack thereof. Gandalf didn't know what Sauron was capable of if he found out about the mission, but he did know that he had many spies throughout the land. Therefore, logically, the best way of ensuring the mission's success (which was Gandalf's entire purpose for being in Arda), was not to take any unnecessary risks and go as stealthily as possible. To take the Eagles anywhere near Mordor with the One Ring would have made absolutely no logical sense, narratively speaking. This is why this so called "plothole" is, to me, just something that separates true Tolkien fans from those who just happened to watch the films once or twice.

1-nazgul 2-fellbest 3-corruption 4-sauron 5-have to be a secret mision

I think most people who bring up this as a plot hole and I've heard this a lot. Most of these people in my experience have only watched the movies and not read the books or The Hobbit. I've always come to similar conclusions about this when you've read the books. Really like your videos! Keep up the good work. J.

The whole point of Lord of the Rings is to show that The Valar can't provide too much Aid to the free peoples without being fully involved themselves. the free peoples need to fend for themselves and they can't really do that if the Valar have to step in and help them every single time

I love how you always incorporate whatever the topic is into a life lesson.

This has been the most interesting theory I ever heard of since the books/movies of the lord of the rings was made. That's the kind of topic I use to ask myself about too. Thank you so much for explaining it to me and everyone who has long been the fan to these stories!

Keep it secret. Keep it safe. These words come to mind when I give my answer to this. With Saruman watching things for Sauron and Sauron himself. It was tricky already trying to keep the exact location of the ring secret the whole time. At any given moment I felt the Nazgul or other agents of Sauron and Saruman could have come to take the ring by force.

Hoohohoohohoho boy. Been waiting for this

Why didn't the US drop the 82 airborne on Berlin in 1943? Same reason.

The Silmarillion makes plain that the Eagles are the servants of Manwe. Manwe Sulimo does not directly intervene in the events of the Third Age at the command of Eru Illuvatar: we know this because even the Istari were bound within limited forms and to exercise limited power by Eru, despite being sent by the Valar. When Gandalf is sent back, he is granted the use of more of his power by Eru, but he is still not permitted to show forth his full power. As you have noted before, Gandalf is Olorin, the wisest of the Maiar and high in the councils of the Valar. The Eagles are therefore restricted from intervening save in limited ways, such as salvaging desperate battles and saving key persons. This is reinforced by the fact that when the Eagles intervene, Gandalf is always there. I believe that they were sent by Manwe to aid Gandalf in his need during the scope of the books; the aid that they rendered others was incidental to aiding Gandalf. I also surmise that Mandos advised Manwe on when their aid would be needed for Gandalf and his companions, but that is pure conjecture. Mandos sees the future better than any other of the Valar, and would know to what extent the Eagles need to act in order to minimize dependence upon them.

I always just assumed that the Eagles were kind and benevolent beings and Gandalf did not want to take advantage of such graceful creatures. This made sense to me based off of how Gandalf treated other aspects of nature such as the Ents.

All of this and you fail to quote the Hobbit: The Lord of the Eagles would not take them anywhere near where men lived. “They would shoot at us with their great bows of yew,” he said, “for they would think we were after their sheep. And at other times they would be right." You can apply the same logic from the eagles refusing to take the dwarves to Mirkwood to the eagles taking them to Mordor. The eagles always tend to strike when it works out best for themselves. Also, though they do carry the Ring in the Hobbit, they also didn't know it was near them. A mission to Mordor would require letting them in on purpose of the mission.

But, Gandalf said "Fly, you fools"

OHHHHH, A lot of people ask this question, I'm quite interested to see your take on it. Ive always thought it was an obvious answer. The mission is highly dependent on the secrecy of the quest. If they flew the eagles in not only would they been seen from many miles away, I suspect sauron wouldn't be keen on the birds and this he would send forward the nazugl, witch king (both on fell beasts or worse (if he could manage worse than fell beasts) ), bats, and legions of archers just to kill them. The eagles are a problem for him so I'm pretty sure he'd want to kill them just to cut them out of the picture. To add on top of that it's possible he may see the ring, he'd defiantly notice the birds and pay attention it's very likely in my opinion that he would see the ring as well as or with the help of the nazgul as well. This would add to his efforts to kill the birds. I very much doubt the birds would be keen on such a quest that would likely result in the death of them all. It's not their responsibility to deal with the ring and I much doubt that if they were asked that they would do this job for the free peoples of middle earth even if all the elven lords begged them. I've heard that at some point Tolkien even said he didn't have the birds fly the ring in because it would make for a boring story. That's just my take, thanks for reading. NOW ON WITH THE VIDEO! EDIT: Holy crap my opinion was very close to yours.

As someone who's daily work allows him to deal with Tolkien's world up to a certain degree and who is therefore very much interested in the interpretation of how Eä works it was a pleasure to hear your point of view, which is by far one of the most interesting ones. Really good work which brings you a like and a subscription. Really good job!

Yes, that's clearly it: the all-important stealth of the mission would have been lost. The eagles only help the Wise - their presence would have been a very visible signal to Sauron.

This is my favorite RU-vid channel, by far. I like how you not only have sound arguments backed by lore and quotes, but you always give a lesson to be learned at the end. Keep it up!

Please do the Battle of Unnumbered Tears in detail!

Damn Tolkein thought of everything when he wrote, and very self aware as a writer. What a guy. AND YOU ended it on the best moral lesson put into words for this thought.

Not with ten thousand men could you do this it is folly

Maybe they were similar to The ents that really didn't want to get involved, however perhaps Radaghast was the one talking them into helping during the events of the ring.

We know that Iluvatar, the One, has a plan for Arda, which is shown forth in the Ainulindale, but he also let each theme roll forth at will of the ainur. He says "no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me", so he is quite present, though quite invisible in Arda. Normally, he'd let the choices of others roll on, but I think he would only intervene if whatever the case would utterly go against that plan (i.e. downfall of Numenor, Bilbo finding the RIng, the slip of Gollum). We read that Manwe understood best the will of Iluvatar, so he would probably act the same way when something isn't right, only intervening when the plan of the One was "threatened", and when the themes of Morgoth were prevailing, just like how both sang at the feet of the Throne in the beginning. Like Yoystan and Tolkien say, the Eagles were to be used sparingly. The people have to choose for themselves, but when the story begins to go rogue, then it will all fail (though Iluvatar would probably do something if the Ring was caught maybe bend the earth again, I don't know). SO, the Eagles could not fly the Ring over because 1) it was in Iluvatar's mind, and I don't think he wants to bend the earth again, 2) Manwe understands the free peoples have to choose for themselves, 3) Eagles only come when sent, because even Gandalf asked Gwaihir if he could ride him, thus showing that they're not just vehicles to drive, or horses to ride, and the obvious 4) Tolkien didn't write it that way... -_- Great video!! And still loving Galafee's music.

The last point about Gollum is the most important. That sold me. Your channel is seriously great too though, till the next video

Boromir: One does not simply walk into Mordor Talion: You were saying?

If I remember correctly at some point Gandalf says something like: eagles are free spirits and a proud race and you cannot simply use them as machines to fly wherever and whenever you want to. So, they come to help when they decide to, probably following Manwe's orders. Also, in my opinion Eagles are children of Iluvatar with a mind on their own, created by Manwe, like Dwarfs created by Aule and Ents created by Yavanna. The only race without a free will are Orcs and maybe Trolls.

Another 10/10 video. You balance fact, opinion and conjecture so well!

I've always thought that whoever rode the eagle to "throw the ring into Mount Doom" may not have been able to do it, just like Frodo couldn't. It would have certainly meant the capture of the ring and the loss of the eagles, a one way trip to destruction.

You should make a video about the top 5 best Elven fighters of all time same with Human and Dwarves! That would be so awesome.

The best argument by far is "we wouldn't have a good story". Why can't we just leave it at that?

I noticed your exposition helicopter graphic. That was new I think. Good job. Again, middle earth travels on Sunday night are great. You do a great job.

I love how you explain things and that you are always super kind. Good job man

I always talk about this with my friends but we never come to an agreement

The eye of Sauron would’ve seen them and sent nazgul on fel beasts to terrify the eagles and bring them down. The bigger plot hole is, why wouldn’t Sauron just barricade the entrance to mt doom?

The eagles didn't seem to have any trouble carrying Bilbo when he had the ring.

Not to mention, Elrond makes it very clear that Sauron's eye is locked onto Rivendell, which, need I remind everyone who has read Tolkien's Legendarium or looked at a map of Middle Earth is THOUSANDS of miles from Mordor. Chances are, the moment he spotted an entire invasion flock of Eagles spear-headed by Gwaihir, he would immediately begin beefing up his defenses.

Ahhh another great video as always yoystan! Now I must give my request for a video. What if samwise Gangee didn’t go with Frodo to destroy the ring. I would love to see your opinion on this as geek zone and myself have done a video on this topic. But alas, keep up the good work ❤️

Very concise, and the angle on Manwe is the one i subscribe to the most as it puts the onus on the free peoples and as seen the interaction lead to yhe reconciliation between Elves and Dwarves as well as to legitimizing King Elessar via conquest. The journey was truly more important than the destination.

Can you do a video on the marsh of the dead? I'm reading two towers and want to know

Thanks for your insight! Glad to know I'm not the only one that wonders this! Thx

0:35 Simple and straight to the point, lol! That'd have been the shortest video explanation xD Great vid! (:

I always thought this oversight made absolutely no sense. The Eagles, however, were able to fly to Mt Doom only after the Nazgul were destroyed. The Eagles would have been detected flying to Mordor. The journey was required to cultivate strength and understanding in order to ensure the ring was destroyed.

Thank-you Mellon. Another great video.

They defend They protec But most important, they fly you out of heck! Eh...I tried. Not my best attempt lol.

While I've always been attached to the idea that the Ring could have been a corrupting influence on the Eagles had they known what they were carrying, I think it's pretty clear from the passages you cite in Morgoth's Ring that the Eagles' role as the Thought of Manwe makes it impossible to turn them against him, and Manwe's very nature makes him personally incorruptible. That said, having it might lead to them making a different decision regarding the right course of action, like keeping it high on some mountain or the like rather than risk its capture. Manwe's go-to strategy in dealing with Middle-Earth corruption is to call upon/trust Iluvatar, rather than try to fix things himself; he doesn't really have a great long-term record of success dealing with it when he's tried (like Morgoth fooling everyone into thinking he "recovered"), so I'm sure Manwe and his agents were more than ready to let someone else try. Your very important observation that Gollum was the ultimate key to the Ring's destruction highlights the wisdom of the Eagles' (and by extension Manwe's) restraint. I do think the Eagles' participation in the Battle of Five Armies shows that it isn't impossible for them to directly intervene in purely Middle-Earth affairs. The Ring just wasn't something they were suited to help with. One last thing: your comment about Sauron's palantir now has me wondering if Sauron didn't shoot himself in the foot by somehow crafting the Ring to shield itself from discovery by the palantiri, when he couldn't have foreseen a day when he'd have a working palantir but not the Ring. Fantastic series. So very happy you're doing these.

The Eagles would have been shot out of the air ...remember the King Eagle was gravely wounded by a poisoned arrow and was healed by Gandalf

I agree with your ideas

Just gotta say thank you, I merely had to share this video to end a FB discussion, in your favor. Keep up the great work, even older videos have a resonating effect.

Thanks for the Jokes the Message in your video Mellon, you brightest the minds of the Tolkien in me every week... Thank You!!! I hear people go on and on about, "Why couldn't they just fly the ring to Mordor?" And You just answer that question very well thank you, Mellon!!! Thanks for the Shout Out and Discussion Video Mellon, Until Riverdale's Spotlight...Marion Baggions Out

But seriously had the eagles flown them closer to Mordor, the men of the West would have never been reunited. Theoden would still have been under Sarumons influence and the Rohirrim divided, the Ents would not have been rallied, Gollum would have not been able y to follow Frodo and fufill his ultimate role in the series. All of those things and more would not have come to pass. Gandalf would have never died in Moria, ect. Remember the goal was not only to get the Frodo to mt doom, as even if they did they could not have given him the will power to destroy it. Everything that happened needed to be done the way the was for the quest to have been completed. It wasn't just a matter of taking a shortcut.

I wish the eagles were a scorestreak on Call of Duty haha

"The answer is actually quite simple... we wouldnt have a good story." Always the view I have taken. Might as well go with the simple and straight-forward explanation but then again Ive never been much of a lore guy.

Thank you for the information! Whenever a friend or family member asked me why, I found it best to reply with the question, "The next time your computer has trouble, why not call up Bill Gates and ask him to troubleshoot it for you?" This response has been met with a myriad of reactions, but it seemed the simplest way to deal with the issue at hand. While I'll still most likely keep that in my holster for those who aren't big fans of Tolkien, I appreciate your explanations in this video for a more proper analysis.

Good luck entering mount doom after Sauron is made aware of the eagles coming with the ring. All the nazguls and all the orcs of mordor would just camp it.

What if Fram was killed by Scatha? What if Smaug survived the events of the Hobbit? What if Elrod took the Ring? What if Tar-Miriel had become qceen of Numenor instead of Ar-Farazon? What if king Earnur was not killed by the witch-King? What if Saruman was not a traitor? What if Smaug took the Ring? What if Durin's Bane took the Ring? What if Glaurung killed Turin? What if the battle of Un-numbered tears never took place? (sorry for my bad spelling)

On one hand, that's a pretty good explanation. On the other hand, it's like "So to avoid to hoards of archers and giant flying monsters we'll go slowly along the ground instead of swiftly in the air." Airborn monsters and soldiers of any type are also a problem for those on foot. Am I right in assuming the ring corrupts over time? So the whole drama at the end wouldn't have needed to play out in exactly the same way. If I were planning this, assuming I had all the resources Middle Earth had to offer, I'd perhaps do something like a large coordinated assault by hundreds of eagles while ground forces harried the gates. One eagle of many hundreds would make a run for the volcano once an opening was found. They'd fly in formations of 4, just like jet fighters. Two leads and two wingmen. And the eagles would be instructed to defend the ring bird at all cost, even to death. Which should be fine since they don't have the free will juice or whatever. Maybe that's not as good of an epic tale of good vs evil but if we're going for pure realism, I think this is Middle Earth's best chance. In reality I think it's fair to say it's a plot device and that's fine. All stories have them. And stories would be much less satisfying if they were all written to have no plot holes. Without us humans being able to suspend our disbelief, we'd probably have no fiction at all and certainly no fantasy. With all that said, I will admit it wouldn't be as easy as some make it out to be.

Love the video. The Eagles are my favorite creatures in Tolkien's Legendarium ❤

This is the best explanation on RU-vid. The lack of fëa is the most cogent answer.

One thing I’ve been wondering for a while- what if pippin hadn’t made all that noise in Moria? What if they made it out undetected with Gandalf still alive?

I never clicked on Subscribe faster. You are a legend my man!

Because it would have made for an extremely short story.

As always, I could listen to your narration all day. Congrats on 100K!!

" Fly you Fools!"

I've seen a theory on why it would be a bad idea, but it's nice to hear it from an actual fan who studied this stuff.

Two part history of Bilbo Baggins History of Saruman of Many Colors History of Merry and Pippin

Such an excellent video. Clears this "plothole" so so Well. Thank you for making this. :)

"One does not simply walk into mordor"👌

The eagles had their own business to attend to, and shockingly, they didn't care about the fellowship or their quest unless it directly affected their lives. As evidenced by Gwaihars reluctance to carry Gandalf away from orthanc " i came to bear tidings, not burdens". He fulfilled the role of messenger but didn't want to involve himself further.

Being near the "One Ring" would have corrupted the Great Eagles after a short time.

Sauron didn't fear the ring was being taken to Mordor and thrown into the fire but rather they would leave Rivendell and take the ring to the wars of Minus Tirith. Thats why Rivendell was being watched by millions of birds called, " Crebain." If you remember correctly the nine walkers lost an entire day trying to avoid being spotted by endless flocks of Crebain. The point is if they had left Rivendell on the backs of Eagles, Sauron was ready for them with his own airforce. Also, by this time, Sauron had grown so powerful that not only did he control the skies but also the weather and could also hurl snow at the Eagles all the way from Mordor.

lol 0:37 well done my boy

Easy to remember summary of arguments against the "plot hole" 1. It's risky, one mistake could bring the ring to Sauron 2. It's too easy to notice 3. They are not allowed by Manwe to intervene because they are direct servents of his will with no fea (therefore no free will)

What about a "What If?" Video where the eagles take the fellowship to Mordor??

First explanation is the best, since there would be no story to tell. It’s like being given everything you ever wanted and not being able to tell the story of how things came to be.

I feel it simply was not the will of the ERU and they needed to experience those experiences to make them strong enough to face the darkness of Mordor

You refer a lot of things but the main reason was that the journey was key to the end result. I mean, the ring had to be dropped on the volcano thus the journey was essential to allow Frodo to grow and become able to do the task. The journey is more important than the destination.

Didnt the eagles only help Gandolf because he saved one of their leaders or something? Arent they almost as powerful as wizards?

In my fanfiction/retelling Lord of the Rigs, this question is brought up only to be shot down immediately because Lord Sturgeon(the Sauron counterpart) can throw lightning bolts.

The eagles are that guy that never ever starts a fight but when confronted to it, always finishes it.

loved the conclusion at the end. So tolkien.

I remember someone posting a theory on this supposed plot hole and they said that Gandalf had actually intended to meet up with the Eagles in their northeastern homes in the Misty Mountains once they were on the eastern side. It was summed up by stating that when Gandalf said "Fly you fools!" he wasn't just telling the rest of the Fellowship to run, he was informing them of, although not very well, of what he had intended to do until Durin's Bane had caused Gandalf to fall. When I first read this theory, it came closer to explaining the problem than any other theory I'd heard before and actually made sense. I highly recommend everyone to find this theory and read the entirety of it.

Something else you forgot to mention that seems to be a popular opinion is when Gandalf tells them to "to fly you fools" meaning that he was actually telling them to seek the eagles instead of running when he just could have said run you fools if he meant that but the fellowship didnt figure it out.

I think that the Eagles could have taken the Fellowship stealthily by flying in darkness and hiding by day. I also think Frodo, without having the journey that tore him down and having Gandalf there, maybe could throw the ring in although it obviously had affected him, but Gandalf would have to help him like he did when Bilbo gave it up. Then there is the aspect that has bothered me of why would Gandalf or Elrond think that Frodo, who has possessed the ring for 20+ years would ever have the strength to destroy the ring when Frodo couldn't even throw it into his own fireplace after Gandalf told him what it is? If I was Elrond I would not have allowed Frodo to continue to be the Ring's bearer as it obviously had too much power over him. Glorfindal should have been chosen instead because after coming back from the Halls of Mandos wouldn't so much as touch the ring with his bare hands, knowing its evil power. But that's just me.

100% agree. This also brings up the question of existence in Tolkien's Universe. By that I mean to ask - what is the meaning of life without someone like Sauron to force you to fight for it? The Valar and even Iluvatar himself would probably almost always interfere with any attempt to "cheese" to victory by using flying machines or birds, because like you say in the video.. there is no good story to be told that way - or no epic life to be lived.

Best meme ever

OMG.... When the tune changed and you began to say .... "This debate about the eagles, reminds us that the easiest and quickest ways to do something may not be the best ways.... " I rolled my eyes and said "Oh god, not an integrated advertisement. " But it actually wasn't. LOL. Phew!

Q: Why didn't the eagles fly Bilbo and the dwarves to the Lonely Mountain? A: Dragon.

Bringing the Ring into proximity of creatures with direct links to Ainu would have been a huge risk of Sauron taking control. No one, not even the Ainu, knew Bilbo was carrying it and so the risk was unknown.

Because they found out they were being under paid, so the leader called a strike.

When the EAgles carried Bilbo no one knew that he had the One Ring, so unless they had some kind of intuitive sense of the power of the ring in Bilbo's pocket they the Eagle King could not have been tempted. If he could sense the power of the ring, why would he not relay that information to Gandalf or Saruman? Along with the other good reasons you've discussed here, I had always thought that if Gandalf could be corrupted by the ring, then very likely a Great Eagle could also. And then there is the statement that Gandalf says to Frodo--that he thinks that Bilbo's finding of the ring was not an accident, that he was meant to to find it and that Frodo was meant to bear it, and that "other forces" than Sauron were behind these actions. If Frodo's "bearing" of the ring means that all he is doing is holding on to it while the Eagles cart him off to Mount Doom, then anyone could have been the Ringbearer. Frodo has to bear the ring because this amazing deed can only be accomplished by an innocent who has no desire for power, and so is able to resist the strength of the ring's influence. Just my own opinion, of course.

I've found a plot-hole in LOTR: Sauron deliberately set Gollum free from Mordor. Sauron was fully aware that Gollum would seek out the ring again. So why didn't Sauron keep a continuous EYE on Gollum using the ITHIL STONE? Or he could have had one of his Black Numenorean sorcerers use the ITHIL STONE to keep a continuous EYE on Gollum. Seems like a big oversight

Good ideas! Well said. I loved the start of this video haha

Cuz then it would have been too easy. Both for them to end Sauron and for Sauron to get the one ring back

your so good a telling the storys of middle earth

Sup

I like how you also included what others said on the matter, like Drew.

Hi babes

I had always thought the reason the Eagles couldn’t take Frodo at all was because of the corruption the ring emits throughout the LotR with Sauron constantly calling out for it. And because they were a pure beings of Manwe, they could not comprehend or bear the corruption or power of Sauron.