I agree. I got my A license in skydiving in 99. I was scuba certified a year or so ago. When I first started my scuba training I had no idea that you could get certified through many different agencies.
When I got open-water certified, I was one of TWO who passed the practical portion. The others were family/friends of the instructor. We all "passed" the course. It bugs me more than it should.
Couldn’t agree more about the skydiving style suggestion. I’ve lost count of the people who I’ve dived with who are open water qualified but only did 4 dives ten years ago and can’t even remember how to attach a bcd to a tank. Repetition and experience in different environments makes competence, not how much you want to pay a training body for a certification. It would be very easy for padi to introduce a requirement to complete 50 dives before being able to do an advanced open water course and to make it compulsory to do a 1 day refresher course if you haven’t logged a dive in 5 years. Great videos, thanks James, keep them going.
Hi James, I totally agree with your comments, I am a skydiver with quiet a few jumps under my belt, I have a small wallet with my qualifications in and signed / stamped by the person who is in charge, this is sent off to the BPA for verification and then they stamp it. This is very similar to PADI you need to have some way of letting others know your qualifications ( I can’t just turn up on a DZ and start jumping on my own with out the correct qualification) same as diving I would not be able to turn up to a dive sight with out the correct cert how it the operator to know who I am what my leaves of question is ?? I get it PADI dose take the piss a bit with a very for everything but at least they are in some ways trying to manage like the BPA, APA. Safe diving everyone.
Like the intro! I believe in experience, and know your limitations, no matter want certification level you are... I had years of experience diving before I got certified because of my dad and grandfather... it makes a difference.
I thought that one of the reasons would be that in scuba you’re the backup and safety for your buddy, that maybe has never met you before, and so it’s useful to have a way to prove your training before you even get on the boat
@@DiversReady as you note, a log book could be faked -- but a legitimate one could also be lost and unable to be reconstructed. Instructor associations (usually) keep a database of cards issued.
@@knoodelhed I got certified in 2006 through SSI, which was a few years before they moved to online dive logs. I had to transfer a bunch of old dives from my pen and paper log when I re certified recently and it all looks kind of janky since exact dates, times, and some other minute details were not recorded back then.
I was going to say this as well. In Europe, to some extent we do have member-led non-profit diver training and advocacy bodies, BSAC, SAA, FFESSM, ScotSAC, CFT, FEDAS etc. under the CMAS umbrella. While these systems do have issues of their own (the politics of BSAC is a shitshow) , it does at show a different way of doing things to the PADI/SSI/SDI shitshow.
Cool new intro, so is Yoda 📚👀. In my opinion old set up was also great, but why I keep watching your videos are the topicks and quality content 🤓. However nice to see the improvements 😎, congrats.
Most agencies claim to be all environmentally "WOKE", but their actions say different. I've been teaching professionally for over 20 years now and the only changes I've seen is a reduction in training standards and an increase in required paper / plastic goods. Great Video!
Hi James - like the new intro! I think it’s always good to do a refresh, and the new year is the perfect time to change things up. I also really liked this video because it does make you think about what your certification card means once you receive it. To me it just meant gaining access to diving, but not having the ability do so yet with any real measure of skill. I have 20 dives thus far, and I KNOW I should not have been certified to dive after I was done with my training. I was still unsure of how to even effectively do a full mask clear, let alone imagine myself diving to 100 feet on the 1st of a 2 tank dive boat dive. There is very little practical time during training, and no local pools just let you show up to practice, practice, practice your life saving skills. So, during my first 20 dives, I hired private guides to help continue my training while exploring wrecks and reefs. It seemed to make the most sense for me, and my skills and my confidence improved tenfold because of it.
HI Lydia, Thanks for watching. I think you're smarter than most newly certified divers. On my list of videos to make is 'Why You Should Hire A Private Guide' and that's a perfect example of why. Unless you do a deluxe Open Water course, where you're taught 1:1 and beyond the minimum standards for the course, a private guide will definitely help you build confidence after certification. Dive safe! James
Wow! I recently found your channel, and got amused by the level of professionalism you talk about certain topics. Most importantly about the safety in general! I have completed my DM qualification last year because I decided that this is my path I want to take. I had observations about my internship regarding the place I've found. How little do they care for safety, and the quality of the training they had. And now when I watch your videos, I was thinking. Oh this guy is thinking about safety in a very very similar manner as I do. And now I learn that you were also a whitewater river guide! I've been working on whitewater for 8 years now. Looks like I'm on a similar path as you've been on. I hope once in the future I could dive with you, and have a beer together. cheers :)
I'd wager it's a combination of pretty much everything in diving science having been learned the hard way with people's lives and the fact that scuba tanks are regulated by the DOT.
People normally rent scuba tanks, and to knowingly rent tanks to an unlicensed person and then have them die as a result of your undue care is likely the most grounded argument. Also scuba instructors and certifying agencies need to make a living.
James.... good intro... I like most of your comments. Especially about one card from agency a, another b, and another c. I like to mix and match most of the time. I teach for SSI, SDI/TDI. my basic OW is NAUI. People join classes based on cost, location and timing of classes. I agree that the instructor is a big part of that. But, most of the time the student does not much of a choice, until you start taking the next levels. When I decided to be an instructor 37+ years ago, I looked at the dive shops around me (at the College I was going to and my hometown.) I picked SSI because of the attitude of the people in the dive shop, SSI was welcoming which fit my personality.
The thing about the USPA and skydiving is that it sits under the Federal Aviation Administration, which is a highly-regulated organization when it comes to any sport or commercial aviation activity. A pilot on a skydiving aircraft as well as the operating business would get into a lot of trouble allowing an untrained person, or a person without the proper gear configuration, to jump out… Especially if they violate an FAR or land somewhere and cause injury or property damage. There is no real room for competition in this field, at least in the US, because regulations are set by the federal government.
Great video! Actually you only need 500 jumps to get your D-License through USPA, but definitely ALOT more than 50 dives and 5 specialty certs to become a "Master Diver".
It's true. If it's within their VISA limit anybody can walk into a dive shop, get kitted out and go diving. However; just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it. A buddy of mine who owns a dive shop once said that anyone can dive to 200 feet but not all of them can get back to the surface.
As a 🏇 and a 🎿. The starts are vastly different. In the two other sports you do baby steps. Honestly I don't recall my first ski lessons as I was still in diaper then. Horse riding. I had hours on the horseback before I earned the trust to hold the reins and control the animal. In scuba you start out by entering an element we are not meant for. You just can't have one handler to ensure that your equipment is behaving and one to prevent other harmful mistakes
I like all your intros!! I started out learning from my Dad and his friends and have well over 100 dives before ever getting certified. Totally wish scuba would follow ski divings footsteps. Get rid of all the PADI, Naui, SSI, SDI and just have one governing body...
I've been diving for years and I don't have a certification I fill my own tanks and have never had any problems or issues of course I learn quick from other people and pay attention to my surroundings and the rules up the diving but my problem is they refuse to fill your tank if you don't have your certification card so I'll be the first one to tell you you don't need that card to dive I do feel that it's a safety procedure to learn all you can from the diving world and procedures from your BCD down to your hand motions and buoyancy learning
I'm a professional ski patroller and would never prevent someone from going down any run unless of course under the influence. An encouraging persistence suggestion to the otherwise would be in order. When all logic fails, I would chaperon the person a few paces behind. If you do break your neck, (which does happen), we'll do our best to immobilize, vacmat and get you to an elevated EMS as quickly as possible.
10:38 not sure I am totally with you. OW divers not going deeper than 60 feet are guidelines, not hard limits. Topic is debated hotly in forums and scuba communities, I wish it was a hard limit but it is not. Specialty cards like wreck or cavern, or AOW may be required by some operators but if you have a boat, or a friend with a boat any diver can do anything they want, nothing stops them. So how are specialty cards and training necessary proof? I guess same could be said for skydiving. Thought provoking video on the whole though.
Its the same principle as diving with out any certification at all. You could by your own gear and dive with out a cert card, just as you could do a 40m dive with out the correct certification, but in most instances its probably not advisable, as you also don't likely have any training (which is the important bit from a personal safety perspective, not the plastic card). The point is that operators and other divers need proof that you have had some training.
You should need a C card for learning to open water dive. A card is needed to show other dive shops you are trained and therefore litigation would be at a minimum or negligent. I don't see a need for all the other certifications like PADI has. If you can dive in the day, then night diving is adding light, and go with someone who has experience. What shop would sell a non-c-card person a full set of equipment?
Love Yoda book holder😲 where i can get it😄 btw your new intro is nice, but i dont think you need to always repeat what is your chanel about(i always skip this part, if the newbees want to know what this chanel is about, there is about section😁). Your videos are interenting and you bring very interesting topics to dicouse. Thank you👍🤘 sorry for my english, learned it from tv😁😁
Nah, keep repeating it, its part of your branding, keep doing what you're doing, your videos are awesome, and 10K others agree, congratulations on all your success James.
Thanks Imantas! Happy to have you hear. Here's a link for the book end in the US: www.amazon.com/Hallmark-Bookend-Accessories-Movies-Sci-Fi/dp/B07CVN64DS
If we don't have self regulation (c-card is part of it) it would be regulated by governements, like car driving. It is, indeed, a privileg for the business that our self regulation is internationally accepted. In fact if the fatality rates would be higher I am pretty sure we would have official regulation and that might complicate the international business, like scuba tourism.
@@davidlowery269 I can see that. Live on a sailboat so when I travel my home comes with me. Nothing beats sailing to the Bahamas, spending 3 months there on a cruising permit, diving almost every day, fishing, exploring, and inviting locals onto my boat for sundowners, and maybe a few recipes. I would have a RU-vid channel but I am too lazy to worry about filming everything.
Do most dive shops ask for a certification card before filling your tanks? I only have experience fillings tanks when I'm actually going diving with them and I have to show my card or at shops where they already know me.
I think scuba should do it how skydiving does it. One governing body for membership and they issue all licenses and instructor ratings. All of my skydiving instructor ratings are on one card. I’d have to carry at minimum 7 cards for all of my ratings and another for just the license if it was handled how scuba does it.
SCUBA could learn some things from the other diving since many parallels can be drawn between the two. I have 1200 jumps and still have my B license since night jumps were good enough for me. Never wanted to be PRO , demo rated or a Tandem Master. Allowing someone to call themselves Advanced Open Water with 12 dives is freaking stupid. I was diving with one such and he forgot to turn on his air and was ready to do a giant stride from the boat. WTF
impe android if not for the buddy check he would have went straight down to the bottom unable to inflate BC and breathe. Darwinism allows no wiggle room for complacency in these sports.
it's more like a recognition to the participants and it's a good marketing tactic this sports just need to practice continuously, just like driving a standard, imo
A few things, liability is a far more complex issue than you talked about in this video and even varies widely from state to state in the US, and I’m sure even more so internationally. Waivers are often unenforceable. For example a common thing in liability waivers is a negligence clause. Most waivers include a clause that by signing you release other party of any liability resulting from negligence, however in CA negligence clauses are unenforceable and often times nullify the entire contract. In your gear scenario, it would more than likely be gross negligence if a dive shop filled an air tank for a someone who wasn’t certified and they walked into the ocean and died. The main thing in determining negligence is “could the negative outcome that happened have been reasonably foreseen and prevented” if the answer is yes there is a strong likelihood you’re guilty of negligence, in the case of the uncertified person getting a tank fill, one could very easily foresee an uncertified diver getting into some serious trouble diving in a tank you filled, and could be prevented by refusing to fill the tank. Ultimately this all boils down to civial liability and getting sued. As far as I know at least locally where I am there are no laws that require a cert to scuba just training agency requirements and the industry standard.
Your 100% correct and obviously liability wasn’t the main point of your video and I wasnt trying to discredit, devalue, or argue with your video. It’s just a very complex issue I find interesting :) thanks for the reply!!
Certified divers drown all the time you can see them all over RU-vid and stories from other people who have certifications to get their tank filled do they get sued? I feel that getting your air tank should not be held up on any responsibility of the company that fills it if you get your tank filled like you said and walk into the ocean and drown that was your decision to do so H just like if someone if you shot yourself could you see the the ammo shop that sold you the bullets? Well your family would have to do so but I don't think that would hold up in a court of law if you got killed on a bicycle could you sue Walmart for selling it to you it just makes no sense to me I mean when you get down to the bear bottom of the whole thing...........
My wife is a Florida insurance defense lawyer and has the same view. The benefit of a wavier is getting people to think they can't sue... but the benefit in a court house is generally pretty limited. Especially once you consider that most suits are ultimately settled because the cost of defense can be more than the settlement amount, ignoring an actual jury verdict for the complainant.
Great review. Quick question I have only been a certified open water diver with PADI since 1989 and I lost my dive log, now that I'm retiring at 61 I wanted to take a solo dive course but I don't have the proof of my dives which they said I needed 200 dives to take the course which I have done over what they are asking for so what do I do ? Thank you
It was mostly bc of gear, boat renting and diving with a club diving gear is expensive and its like a barrier for any beginner who wants to put themselves in danger kinda good thing actually, because i cant imagine a beginner to be able to buy the complicated scuba gear on their own I learned freediving alone, even tho i know the recommendations to not dive alone (i coudnt find a buddy) and to find a competent instructor (lack of instructors in my country, bc the local underwater federation under CMAS didnt recognize freediving as a legit sport till past years) but i cant imagine i could do the same with scuba, specially because it involves gear with many things that can go wrong you can easily put yourself in danger with scuba, while for freediving, you have to actually be fit and competent to put yourself in danger
It's quite easy to spot a noob on a horse. :D I had some guests, who said they can ride well. Ok, get on the horse in the yard, and ride for 20 minutes, if it's well, you can go to the trail too. Sooo many have failed. I can imagine these kind of people go diving, death rate would be 10x higher. :D
Another reason scuba diving has a relatively low mortality rate is because the vast majority of divers do their thing in warm placid tropical waters or freshwater lakes. I'd bet if you focussed on the divers doing tech, wreck, cave/cavern, drift, rocky shore entries into surf etc. the rates would look a lot less rosy.
You don't "need" a certificate to dive... you can go buy gear and dive on your own if you want to. Nobody will stop you.. get your boat, gear, and go diving... I wouldn't recommend it, but then again, I wouldn't recommend BASE jumping either... Also, pretty sure the first base jumper didn't get training anywhere... people who dare to do great amazing and dangerous things, end up doing just that... :)
Hi James I was just watching your EANx video and am moving into the High Rockies this summer. Due to the lower atmospheric O2 at 4000+ ft diving certification and use of EANx would be my best option correct?
If your going to Colorado check out A1 dive shop in denver. They are an SSI shop, very friendly and knowledgeable and will definitely help set you up for the altitude out here (im at 9,932 ft east of denver!)
Im a D licence Skydiver ... :) For the most , being certified, is a money spinner , I have my own boat , kit , tanks , compressor ... :o im not certified ...
@@DiversReady Hi James, thanks for your reply. Would you think the club approach is better than the agency system and maybe how diving should be taught? Kind regards Nick
You only need certification if someone else fills your tanks. If you have an extra $4k to buy a compressor,, it is not illegal to fill your tank and dive. Businesses that have a compressor don't want the liability of filling a tank for the untrained. The next of kin may sue them. Ultimately it always is about money.
Have Never shown a cert card in the UK to a boat or centre, only ever at an airshop for O2/Gas. Frankly most centres/boat skippers aren’t qualified to judge what the certs mean, if they required a card they’d be liable!
Hallo......Learn some history guys..... There is a worldwide non-profit scuba agency called CMAS "founded by Cousteau", where for every level there is a minimum of required dives and skills. (Not the 10 dives, 5 days later and 2000$ lighter from 0 to DiveMaster course ;-)
Do you have a certification card to run those dangerous lights don't?you not trying to be rude just saying it is so unfair for people that want to enjoy a hobby that should be open in free to the public without going through thousands of dollars I mean I get it it's a dangerous sport and it can be very fatal if you don't know what you're doing but not giving someone Air doesn't seem like nothing to do when someone is wanting to get into sports and get be active I mean it's almost impossible for hobbyists to do anything now just a fly by toy drone just a fly around your neighborhood and take pictures of the beautiful sunset or just to fly it because it's fun to mess with it's an adult toy now you almost gotta have license and stuff just to do that and now you gotta have license in to do that to go underwater I don't know I've been diving for years and I fill my own tanks I know all about the gauge chart pressure chart and how to use it because I took the time to teach myself but I'm gonna continue on I will enjoy the ocean or lakes or rivers or pond they don't like it ohhh wellllll
James. It's not correct, diving is not the only sport you need certification in. Take motor racing cars or bikes you need a competitions licence to compete at either club level or internationally. That being the Rac in the UK or internationally FIA. Skydiving yes they are club or organisation regulated but also by the CAA civil aviation authority in UK. There are others Even to drive a car or motorcycle you need to have a licence to do so legally and have been trained by an appropriate organistion. Finally liability wavers these are not worth the paper they are written on. As you can be prosecuted for negligence if someone is injured due to your actions or inactions. Ref unfair contract terms 1977 1982. That could only be permitted to property and chattels not damage to a person. Hope it helps.
Is a DM myself I can say that some of the “trained” divers we get are horrific, I’ve even had a diver that said they had done 30 + dives but if they didn’t hold my hand they would freak out and bolt for the surface! As well as others that couldn’t even swim to save themselves. Some instructors will just sign people off so they can take their money. I think one central training organisation would be a great idea ( plus I think a $20- $30 membership fee is much better than a $400 one😳)
Even with the card I have watched folks almost drown themselves and others I can’t imagine what it would be like without a card. Let’s let folks drive without licenses as well we can say that as well. Maybe have folks fly jets too. I get the fact that it can be cumbersome but seeing bodies pulled out on the news all would be bad for the sport we got enough of that already
If you are a uncertified diver, you have a problem underwater you will most likely panic. You could end up being injured and even worst dead. I am glad I am certified diver When it comes to diving there no shortcuts. If you are going to do it, do it right. Great video James
Your training is only as good as the instructor. How much experience do they have? Can they train others? I was reading about the death of a young woman in Montana whose instructor was a pure shit show. The woman should have never been allowed in the water to begin with.
