Why Do People Hate Cinder Fall? 

Let's be real, there hasn't been a really good villain since Roman. ChangeMyMind

Counter idea; play her hollowness straight into her character. Make Cinder’s backstory that she utterly lacked anything resembling desire and lived feeling no sense of fulfillment. After some event in her life she unconsciously thought that power was something that could grant her the fulfillment she desperately desired in life. Cinder doesn’t actually want power, but rather she thinks she does since, to her, power is equal to fulfillment. Does that make sense?

"Wannabe Lust meets Wannabe Azula" Someone finally put it into words *slow clap*

“You’re not the only one with a Grudge against Ruby!” One month earlier at Haven **Cinder tries to kill Jaune and Weiss and ignored Ruby’s existence**

Yo...how about a family member like her grandmother with the maiden powers. Told her it’s her Destiny to receive these fall maiden powers. And the grandmother saw Amber last or something g and SHE got the maiden powers instead of Cinder that make the lines: *”It’s unfortunate that you were promised a power that was never truly yours”* And *“Do you believe in Destiny?”* *”....Yes”* Make since idk something I thought of

Who would've thought that Salem would get a backstory before Cinder? You know you're an eh villain when Grimm Satan gets a more interesting origin than you do (because she actually has one).

0:40 flirting with a girl on tinder and I heard that phone vibrate and I got so excited only to be immediately disappointed

It's really a shame because Cinder could easily have become the best villain in RWBY. After murdering Pyrra and orchestrating Penny's death as well as being responsible for the destruction of Beacon. At the beginning of volume 4 they SHOULD have done a flashback to her childhood, maybe showing something horrible happening to her which drives her motivation for power, or something, before cutting to the meeting of the League of Villains. We could have seen the cause of her ambition before seeing the results of it cut short, really giving her a cause to DESPISE Ruby. Then, during volume 5 we should have seen her descend into insanity, becoming increasingly obsessed to torment and kill her. It should have been Ruby she confronted and have her try and kill Weiss to spite RUBY not Jaune. It really is a shame. She could have been the Azula of RWBY. The Envy of RWBY.

I've heard that Cinder is an allusion to Cinderella. It'd be an interesting twist if Crwby finally revealed her backstory and we learned that Cinder developed her destructive and sociopathic tendencies from her father and/or birth mother, and her "evil" stepmother and stepsisters were actually decent people who tried to counter her warped upbringing.

Cinder was really sweet to the dragon Grimm and has motives that aren’t entirely loyal to Salem. She also had a huge negative reaction that knocked off her composure when encountering Ruby’s silver eyes, which came from the god of light. Her hatred toward humans and affection for Grimm make me wonder if she is the first/only follower/disciple/worshipper of the god of darkness, since everyone else loved the god of light and paid dark no attention. Maybe she worships him, maybe she wants to replace him.

Unicorn of War: She’s a shallow antagonist... Cinder: *Triggered* WHAT?!

I actually didn't mind the whole "sexy in control" persona Cinder had, and wished they stuck with it more. My favorite villain archetype is the master manipulator, which was what Cinder seemed to be in the early volumes. She had all of the information and never showed her entire hand. "You'll know what you need to know when you need to know" and all that. This also could have shifted her motivation from a need for raw power into to a need for power over others. She's always calm and collected, but we see her shut down when Ruby uses her silver eyes, something she hadn't accounted for. This could shift well into her need for revenge, a little girl managed to stop her master plan, and did it on accident. This doesn't work quite as well for the later volumes, like how the plan was actually Salem's and she's the true manipulator, but I think it could still be interesting.

Cinder is based of cinderella I expect her or at the very least I justify her need for power and strength and being feared is because she had a tragic childhood, like I don't know evil mom or parents that abused her made her feel small tho more specifically WEAK, she wants power

It's funny because Cinder's backstory was only finally revealed... and it's far too little too late.

Cinder is basically a mindless powerful monster (doomsday)who appears at random episodes to make the viewers scared for the main cast

Unpopular opinion: It's not her lack of motivation, lack of character depth, or even her inconsistent actions that make Cinder unlikable. It's her personality, voice, and mannerisms. I knew from the moment she appeared on screen there wouldn't be anything interesting about this character. Her only personality trait is evil, and as a big fan of villains I find that incredibly dull.

Neo please just save teams RWBY and JNR the trouble and backstab Cinder

It’s funny how Chibi does a better job writing her character over the actual show.

The problem is that we don't know what Salem's primary motivation is. What did she want the Maiden power for? Revenge? Reverence? Revolution? What the hell is it that she wants to do with that power? Wanting power is too simple to serve as her only character motivation. Is she just addicted to becoming stronger? Was her ancestor the Emperor of Mistral? Is there a flaw she sees in the world Ozpin and co built? Because she spends so much of her character acting as more of a mindless minion than her own minions, we can't tell where Cinder's goals and Salem's orders are supposed to differ. The Battle of Haven went from Salem disobeying orders for her revenge to attempting to overachieve as many secondary objectives as possible while completing the primary. We're not even sure if any of the Battle of Haven was driven by her own motivations because it was never clear what they were. If Cinder was supposed to be having a clash between loyalty to Salem and her own personal motivation. Not knowing that personal motivation makes it hard to see the struggle because we don't know what she's trying to juggle.

Ruby lying on floor defenceless Cinder walks right past and ignores her I thought you wanted her dead cause like you know she humiliated you and took out your eye and you said you want nothing more than her dead (I’m talking about the battle of Haven)

What irritates me is a villain like Adam who hasn’t been around as long as Cinder gets a backstory and she doesn’t. The problem is if we know a character’s motivation, they don’t need a backstory as much as a character who doesn’t have a motivation.

Because of RT most if not all characters are terrible in RWBY, alongside other shit. So I personally don't hate Cinder and will no longer hate Adam. Need a serious reboot with good writers doing better at storytelling, characterization, etc.

Cinder dying would ultimately be best for pretty much every character in the show as well. For one, Emerald would want to seek vengeance by killing Ruby. I think it could lead into some more awesome confrontations between her and Tyrian, because after episode 9, I don't want anyone else to kill him but her. Maybe have him mockingly compare her to Cinder, which would push Emerald closer to finally betraying Salem and maybe kinda hopefully please God become one of the good guys. This, in turn, would be cool for Mercury, who would be forced to decide whether he's come to actually care for someone or if he truly is just another one of Salem's murder children. I'm hoping for the later, because for the love of God, never get rid of Yuri fucking Lowenthal.

I’m mostly 50/50 about Cinder. I like her in the fights she’s been in, I kind of like how she’s got some mystery around her about her backstory. But I dislike how M&K haven’t even discussed it. For a person who writes shit fan fiction, even I feel like I would have given Cinder a backstory around this point, or even little tidbits of her backstory, just letting the reader/viewer get even more curious about the backstory. And put the whole backstory into, let’s say half of a chapter/episode. And like Thomas has said multiple times in this video, Cinder is basically a plot device, not a character. I really agree with this, and is one of the main reasons I hate Cinder. Anyways long comment done lol

You can be as shallow as you want when you look like that.

I feel like the only way they could somewhat fix cinder in a way that would breathe new life into her character and show potential would be to make her more of a sympathetic villian, one who mentally and physically breaks more and more each time she fails. (metaphorically, this ain't some torture porn shit) so while we watch her deteriorate we could go more into her back story and insight so by her final big breakdown moment (preferably to a loss against ruby far down the line) we feel sympathetic for her in a way that makes us question why we feel that way. That was a really messy skeleton but basically what I mean is she's not threatening and never will be but that doesn't mean all hope for her character is lost. Great video as always, this comment was a shit show.

I think a good way to salvage Cinder's character is to make her Salem's daughter (biological or taken in/kidnapped at a young age). If Cinder was raised by Salem, then she would likely have never been shown any form of compassion and from the moment she was able to fight, Salem set her up to achieve her destiny of gaining the Maiden's powers and becoming Salem's Grade A murder machine. That could be why she was tearing up at Pyrrha's mention of destiny because she knows that her destiny is to aid in the destruction of the race she knows she'll never have the chance to rule. Her monologue about wanting to be powerful could be something that Salem had her repeat constantly as a way to prove her devotion to Salem and her cause and to show that she was actually worth Salem's time. That exact sound clip could be reused in a future scene and show Cinder saying it to Salem during a lecture. "I want to be strong, I want to be powerful" like the weapon you want me to be. not "I want to rule, I want to conquer" because she has no will of her own. Cinder being Salem's biological daughter would also explain how she was able to communicate with such a powerful Grimm such as Kevin the Dragon (R.I.P). Cinder being Salem's daughter would give an excuse for us not getting a background for Cinder in 6 years. We're just now learning about Salem in V6 so for us to get background on Cinder's family before now wouldn't make any sense as we wouldn't know anything about Salem and what she is before now and we wouldn't even know who she was before V4 and that would have ruined Salem's big reveal at the end of V3.

Here's the thing, we can say that Cinder is mysterious and that's why we haven't gotten her story, but that's giving her way too much credit as a character. Salem is the biggest bad in this series and we know her entire life, motivations, and enough data to make real theories about her (is she suicidal? does she still want Oz? how much of her current personality is a result of the Grimm pool?). Hell they kept her in the shadows for a while so we wouldn't get tired of constantly seeing her and wondering what her deal was. Good villains have to be one of two things: a) charismatic enough that we still like them even when they suck or b) sympathetic enough that we at least understand. Another is if they adhere to a moral code so it's a case of _Even Evil has Standards_ . If your villain is a complete sociopath with zero motivations other than "evil for the lulz" then people will eventually get tired of them. Roman was the former and by god I miss that trash talking bastard. Cinder isn't charismatic enough to pull off the "I'm always in control you are beneath me" persona because she's a humorless sadist who would rather taunt a grieving teenager whose friend she murdered than actually carry out the goal she kept claiming to want. Cool fight scenes can only cover up so much. I've been told that Cinder is a Cinderella (big shock I know but please contain your astonishment), so maybe she's a Cinderella that went bad. Dead parents, an abusive family that forced you to become a servant in your own home, and Salem as the Fairy Godmother. That's a backstory that would explain her reason for wanting to be strong. Alas until RWBY gives her a backstory I am obligated to wait for Neo to absolutely stab her in the back.

This video Actually describes the Current issue this series suffers: "The Heroes are Idiots, and the Villains are JUST AS Stupid and are just their for sake of this series to HAVE A BAD GUY(S)"! This could also be reflected to OTHER Anime's and Franchise's that are also suffering with this problem...... Am I wrong?!

You can give her motivation and say why she wants power. Or you can leave it up to the imagination; in my opinion, NOT knowing a villains motivation could make them more mysterious and intriguing if you do it right. So what is it? Its because she doesn't feel like a person. No real human being is as one dimensional as her. She's always smug or angry. We have never seen her genuinely happy or laugh out of actual joy. Never seen her confused of whats she wants. We never seen the current cinder cry. We have never even seen her opinion on anything NOT related to her ambitions. Racism? Poverty? Favorite flavor of ice cream? Nothing? She's the epitome of a mustache twirling villain. With that said, even these kinds of villains can be decent. We just have to be scared of her. Make her character genuinely terrifying or menacing and your villain can be quite great even with weak development. People think that she can't brute force her way to get what she wants. But what if she did.... and constantly succeeded? Suddenly she's a problem. But after seeing Cinder fail over and over its hard to worry when she makes an appearance. She takes a backseat to Salem in terms of threat level even when Salems not there. People thought learning her backstory would help. Good joke. Motivation is not the answer. Humanizing her is.

Watching this now while also now knowing Cinder’s backstory is soo conflicting on my heart

Cinder has always seemed like a poorly written OC you'd see on DeviantArt.

I actually like Cinder Fall. I like villians who do anything for power. I mean she made herself part grimm. That shows how dedicated she is to gaining power. I dont know why i like characters like that. I think i just like the insane lengths they will go through.

She's about to take her Fall

I love cinder but i do want her to be more of a person instead of just a villain with cliche motives

Honestly, it took me 3 seasons to remember her name. I literally didn't know her name until the season finale for volume 3. Why do I remember her? She killed our precious baby

A good way I feel we could've cared about her is that her backstory could've been told at the start of Volume 3 or at least in the episode where they showed Emerald and Mercury's backstories on why they got introduced into Cinder's faction, maybe we could've seen her maybe in a cavern hiding away from atlas officers, and then she hears a voice calling out to her from a pile of rocks which has a hidden seer and Salem talks to her, telling her about what she could be, and that's how she joined Salem. And actually, add depth to Pyrrha asking her if she believed in destiny, (I.E Her being found by Salem at the exact time she felt at her weakest or whatever)

It took 8 volumes but we’re finally getting her origins so we get her motivation for power

Here’s an update from 2021 now that Volume 8 is completed: She’s even worse now that she has the worst possible backstory ever. You try to make an otherwise irredeemable person likeable is just straight up ridiculous. To further support my point, she isn’t even loyal to Salem BECAUSE APPARENTLY HER BEING GONE LETS HER DO WHATEVER SHE WANTS. But when Salem does come back, instead of being punished for being a whiny, selfish, absolute crap hole of a character... she gets rewarded. I am hoping that the day of her death will be the day all AND I MEAN ALL of the karma given to her will pay off. She is literally Star-scream from Transformers but a whole lot worse. But seriously man, ever since Volume 3, we haven’t seen a Volume ending with a good sign of hope. Every single one of them ends in tragedy, and frankly Cinder’s death is Long overdue

Even after Cinder got her backstory, they STILL make her too unlikable to empathize with.

13: 21 "The pathetic creature and desperate monster she truly is." This line here reminds me of my favorite villain group ever: the Greeed of Kamen Rider OOO. They are equal parts literal engines of destruction as they are pathetic. You see scenes where they destroy everything around them interspersed with scenes where they are at their most pathetic; like when they sift through medals to find their cores as if they were like beggars because they are colorblind. On the other hand we the viewers know exactly what they look like, and can see them missing them in their desperation. Even at their strongest you see them at their weakest: Mezool abducts mothers and their children because she desperately wants to know what parental love is like, but no matter how many she abducts it will never be enough because she is fundamentally incomplete.

Now it might simply be the Bakugo syndrome, only slightly less well written. Bakugo at the start had no substance as a character, the shallow “I’m the best mentality” and “I hate this kid cause he has asperation”. People *HATED* Bakugo at his beginning, but later in the series they finally put what they needed to make Bakugo’s attitude [moderately] understandable. If at worst its fairer to judge the success of Cinder as a character at the end of her run (its like 13 volumes right?). Different Story if she stayed dead after 5.

Tbh, I loved Cinder from Volume 1 Episode one when she intrigued the hell outta me and when she appeared I was like, yes, a cold, composed, manipulative, villain that's hot as hell, and I really admired how even when Team RWBY f'ed her plans up (via Roman) she could still turn them in her favor. And in Volume 3 how she brought Beacon to its knees I was like, Damn... And I couldn't help but wanting to learn about her past and her everything what lead her to that and all. And I never got anything... In Volume 4 I was like, finally, we will focus on her as a villain a lil bit but... nope. Then, in volume 5 she lost all her composal and started acting like spoiled little brat, and suddenly, the mastermind that brought Beacon to its knees along with its Headmaster, stopped thinking and using her damn brains. The thing that made her appealing (at least to me). So, when Raven offed her I wanted so hard to believe that Cindy was dead and gone. Then, at Volume 6, I didn't like the fact she came back, but her first appearence showed her thinking again. Then her little skirmish with Neo, and the way she looked at the little ice cream when she was telling her she's not to be held accountable for Roman's death, at first, showed saying that in a low voice and a look that looked kinda sympathetic and could as well been coated with sadness, then she went all bitchy. At that moment I thought, finally some characterization and maybe she and Neo would grow close and we learn stuff about both of them, especially Cinder who painfully needs it, but, nope. Again. The scene in episode 7 made me completely reach the point of: You know, I freaking loved you at first cause you intrigued me, but I can't tolerate seeing you on my screen anymore. So, at this point, I don't have any hopes of her character being written properly. I started to feel like that the moment Miles joked about her in a Con: "And then there's THIS bitch who lost her eye" and at that point I was like... "Woah... whether you joke or not, a writer shouldn't treat one of their characters, even an antagonist or villain that way. A writer is supposed to properly write all their characters. Not play favorites." And pretty much that was the moment I felt like Cinder would never prolly be treated with respect as a char or villain. I kept being a lil bit in denial, but, now I pretty much have given up all hope.

Every time you brought up the whole 'power above all else' nature Cinder has, I keep thinking about Vergil from Devil May Cry. "Foolishness, Dante. Foolishness. Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything, let alone yourself."

Why is she still in the story? She served her purpose, just kill her already and let other villains have their time to shine. It would be like zabuza was still around in Naruto shippuden bothering the main characters

"She's still the same hollow plot device she was all the way back in Volume 1 where she didn't even really feature in at all" - Unicorn of War, probably

'' wanna be Lust meets wanna be Azula'' that's the best Cinder discription ever

Cinder- mediocre cookie cutter villain Salem- even more generic and basically downright lazy anime copy and insulting villain Torchwick-great sassy interesting villain which the writers killed off in a lame way

Cinder could be a severed head lying on the ground and she’d still be acting like everything is going according to plan.

we honestly know nothing about Neo's backstory either but at least shes an enjoyable character. we know her motivations yet she never speaks. why can't they give us this with Cinder who is supposed to be the defacto antaganist for Ruby

She has a back story now! Does it make me feel sorry for her? Nope!

Love the phone vibration at 0:42. Also, this is still probably a favorite of mine when it comes to your videos. Keep it up!

Well, its impossible to like her after what she did to Pyrrha

To me, it’s not if a villain is put in a state of vulnerability, it’s what they take from it.

I’m interested on how this video held out and aged now that volume 8 is over and done with, we’ve kinda gotten good Cinder moments in the latest volume

We still don't know why she wants to kill Ruby other than her being the protagonist and working for Cinder and that Bothers Me~

I didn't find Cinder to be all that bad in vol 1-3, it added to the mystery of the villains, their true purpose and the true main antagonist reveal in vol 3's final scene. I thought what we got was fine at that point in the story. Even Cinder's response to Pyrrha's "destiny" line didn't need any context at the time, so long as it was addressed in short enough time to still be relevant, i.e. vol 4. Which it unfortunately didn't. Her overconfidence was a key part of her character, she clearly thought of herself as infallible and having that shattered in the vol 3 finale just as she obtained the power she thought would make her truly unstoppable was a great step in her character development, especially with how this led to her portrayal in vol 4. The problem was vol 5 threw that out the window, regressed her character and I don't need to talk about the rest of that volume. Vol 6, she hasn't really done enough, she's had a couple interesting scenes but it feels like ages since we've seen her and we may as well have no idea what's happening with her. There's still three eps until the end of the volume at the time of writing this so anything could happen at this point, but I don't see much character development happening unless the final few eps are extra long to accommodate both that and it's currently established climax. Then again they could easily wrap up the whole Adam and Cordovin thing next ep if they want to, the Cordovin fight in particular could be resolved pretty quickly imo

And she finally got an origin story in Volume 8, and it’s as predicable as expected

Ah yes. Cinder and Little Miss Malachite. When you’re introduced side character is more interesting than you’re Maine antagonist.

The flat voice acting doesn’t really help either

Generally I think a characters key moment can come when they hit rock bottom; plans failed, allies/friends gone, all alone with nothing but injuries to show for it. It can be the moment when a character stripped of pride looks at themselves, their past actions and motives and decide where to go from their. They take those uncertain steps towards whatever their reflections lead them to conclude was important, building themselves up again in an altered form. Naturally when Cinder hit that point, failed to gain the relic or the maidens power, abandoned by Salem, she failed to reflect and failed to change in any way. Now that she has a moment like that its harder then ever to write a moment where she would get some depth because another rock bottom moment is cheapened by being a repeat.

I missed it.......it’s still a good vid glad to get your input. I can feel your frustration on her. I would to see her character improved and didn’t realize some character flaws you pointed out

Wow I wasn't even aware volume six was out. Time to binge!

I would love to see an update of this video talking about the recent events... even though nothing has changed

First off, thanks for an awesome premiere! Next, I cannot wait for either neo or emerald to Backstab cinder. I dont hate cinder. I just find her extremely irritating. I do not like cinder just because she annoys me whenever she is on screen. She is literally just salems puppet since she has no personal goals and literally does salems general bidding (except in vol 5 where she finally went against orders to try kill ruby at haven but ends up not even paying attention to ruby, but to JAUNE...god damn u, miles)

Unpopular opinion here (well maybe not too too unpopular) but I actually like Cinder. Yeah V5 was terrible for her, but I don’t think negates everything I liked about her prior to that. However, she’s the one of the villains I’ve actually enjoyed so far, I like how there’s still an air of mystery surrounding her character and origin story (though they should expand upon that), and she’s been in every good fight so far. Seriously, I dare any of you to tell me that any of the fights she’s been in were terrible or boring to watch. Yeah I acknowledge the problems with Cinder, but I still enjoy her character. I think people have written her off too early as it looks like they’re playing the long term game here.

MILES AND KERRY NEED TO LISTEN TO THIS! RIGHT NOW!

It’s ironic watching older videos about RWBY as someone who hasn’t seen the show but knows that more information about characters have been released. I personally think that Cinder’s power motivation is incredibly interesting as long as there are hints of her backstory to back it up. Think of the homunculi from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood/Manga. They seem like fairly 1-dimensional villains when we first see them but as the series goes on, the small hints of their true feelings are revealed. Even though they try their best to deny it, they tend to let their true feelings shine through (usually near their defeat). I feel like subtle cues to her motivation could’ve helped her character.

I seriously hope that the next Volume 7 character trailer will feature Cinder. They did it with Adam they can do it with Cinder.

And the wait for a Soarel rant begins, and I'm calling it now he'll say what he is doing isn't ranting just presenting facts and say something about raven and her being a birdbrain and something about her wanting power was only said in one sentence so it doesn't count, and something about cinders leitmotif which 'confirms' her motivations and why she is the best character in the show

When is Cinder going to get what's coming to her

This is so well done 💛💛💛! Such good flow! + I love your ideas in the feedback at the end!

Cinders character development and backstory VOLUME 8 :allow me to introduce myself

So what you're saying is we should have a character-driven free-for-all between Ruby, Cinder and someone else in the vein of Avatar Book 2?

If you haven’t, I would looooove a video of your views of volume 7 Cinder.

But 12:00 am? really!

You know what would be a nice take? Give her backstory. Give her a reason to want power. Double down on her hatred of Ruby and have her constant failures result in Salem stuffing her with Grimm parts until she becomes a Grimm abomination literally consumed by negativity and running only on rage. Makes the character's descent into madness compelling, and possibly shows Salem as a master manipulator

There comes a moment in every life where they ask themselves, "What Do?"

When did Cinder drop a single tear. I’ve never noticed that. Can someone point it out for me?

I totally agree with all of this. I liked her when she first came into the show think ‘oh a good new villain’ but after volume 4 and 5 I was kind of pissed off because she hasn’t changed what so ever. She still the same after each season. And I bet she’s going to be the same in season 7. I would honestly love to hear about her backstory and the same with Neo’s as well and I do agree with you, that it would make her a better character in this show in stead of being a shallow character. Also love your RWBY reviews and stuff like this please continue to do more of them.

So one thing i can think of right now is the unsettling possibility of Neo working for Salem in order to keep an eye on Cinder, while Cinder herself thinks she's acting on her own. Because otherwise Salem's casual neglect of Cinder makes little sense. She's a maiden, one that hasn't recovered her respective relic yet, and you're just letting her do her own thing with zero supervision? Even when you're fully aware that Cinder tends to screw up when left without supervision? Oh, and Neo's actions also start to make a little bit more sense with that line of thinking and yet i still don't think it'd be a good route to go down :D.

You might not even see this comment but I just want to say you've legit 180'd my view on Cinder. I've claimed in the past that she's my favourite character but with what you've said I kinda realize I don't like her; I like the things she's done from a narrative standpoint. I like that she introduced darker elements into the series, I enjoy her fighting style, her leitmotif is amazing and Jessica Nigri's performance has steadily improved since her introduction, but none of that makes for a good character. This is my first comment on a video of yours but I've been checking your stuff out since shortly before Volume 6 and your insight into RWBY and media techniques as a whole is just incredible. Keep up the amazing work.

I'm pretty sure what you're talking about how Cinder is going to end up is probably going to happen, ie: Confronting Ruby and then meeting her end due to her own hubris and arrogance, while also getting a 'love and compassion are weak' philosophy thrown back in her face. Now that we know how the Silver Eyes work, I think it's pretty clear that Cinder is going to be Ruby's 'Trial by Fire' that Maria mentioned (Ruby even foreshadows this by bringing up Cinder in that episode), most likely in the form of Ruby protecting Weiss during a fight with Cinder. Silver Eyes literally run on Love and Compassion, and the CRWBY have gone out of their way on multiple occasions to AVOID situations where Weiss could trigger a Silver Eye moment from Ruby (like knocking Ruby out during the Haven fight before Weiss got impaled), so I feel like they're saving a moment like that for a big payoff much like they've saved the Adam fight for when Blake and Yang can fight him together. Regardless, I think it's pretty clear that one full-power Silver Eye blast would most likely put Cinder down for good. The question is where, when and how that happens, and if Cinder can get any decent development in the meantime leading up to it.

I'd be curious for a post-season-8 update.

0:28 Isn't that every character in RWBY???

Nah, i love Cinder.. despite of her horrible attitude.. I still love her 😁

I’m watching this to pass the time before next episode

Cinder shouldve abamdoned the maiden power bs, turned away from salem, and hunt rwby while each season building up a redemption arc.

Why do so many people use the word "Inkling"? I'm not here to learn about Splatoon.

Ok, first off I didn't watch the video but I want to share my thoughts on "Hating Cinder Fall" now because I feel like it. Don't worry, it will be pretty short (I hope...). I never understood why people hate certain characters or any character for that matter (at least to a extent in this particular case). I get it, Cinder is terribly written character, I'm not here to argue differently but wishing for her to die in any given second by anything and/or anyone seems kind of dumb to me. The best example would be Cinder vs Neo, most people (including you Thomas) gave no shit about the difference in skill and power between those two characters and were all about "Kill this bitch!" (refering to Cinder) which makes me both laugh and die a little inside. Since the start of Vol.4 (and arguably the end of Vol.3) people were complaining about the writing in general, characters especially but when it came to Cinder or Adam it was all just "Kill them, we don't give a shit" kind of attitude which makes me question their actions. You want a better written show and great characters but the moment when there is a chance for those characters you "hate" to be even a tiny bit better you just want them to be gone even if it would break any logic and continuity. That's a flawed logic right there. I don't know about you but in my humble opinion, it's better to use and improve assets you already have than just flat out get rid of them since it can lead to better things down the line, interesting developments for characters and story as a whole. It just feels like a waste to kill characters off just because you have some kind of vendetta against characters that don't even exist. No offense.

I know this is late, but I saw a couple good ideas for a possible history for Cinder.. The first was that her grandmother may have been the Fall Maiden before Amber and Cinder was essentially meant to become the next Fall Maiden, but Amber did instead. The second was that Cinder had some kind of tragic childhood, possibly mirroring the tale of Cinderella. To me, these both seem like good ideas, but they also seem incomplete on their own. So, using my skill in character development won by years of roleplaying, I shall now endeavor to turn these parts into a sort of backstory for Cinder. Disclaimer: I kinda stopped watching RWBY around season 5. I should probably take some time to catch up. Cinder Fall never had a large family. When she was a small child, her parents died, which left her in the care of one of the older female members of her family. This woman was also the Fall Maiden, something which Cinder soon became aware of. The Fallen Maiden wasn't always there, but she made sure that Cinder was treated well and always acted as a good parental figure when she was. Cinder was taught good manners and morals to the best of this Fall Maiden's ability, as well as being groomed to one day replace her. At some point, she became aware of this plan, which left her overjoyed, due to her idolization of her relative. She didn't fully understand what it meant to "replace" a Maiden, likely not knowing that this meant her relative would die. Perhaps this Fall Maiden was sick and slowly dying anyway, which was why she was trying to prepare a successor. It's possible that, due to her relation with a Maiden, she even knew Ozpin as a child. That Fall Maiden died when Cinder was around 10 or 11, possibly while protecting Amber from a pack of grimm. The last person she saw or thought of was the person she had been protecting, which was why the Fall Maiden's powers went to Amber instead of Cinder like they were intended to. Cinder was later informed of her passing, and this would quickly transform her life. With no other known living relatives, like many other children she was placed into state sponsored care. And, like many other such children, she would grow up further being passed from family to family. Here, her quality of life dropped drastically. Initially, she was confused, but over time she began to feel bitter towards the people she had once idolized. She had been abandoned to be passed around like some kind of junk that no one wanted, shifted along whether she wanted to go or not. She didn't meet many nice people. Many of these families, however, were only after benefits that they could get from fostering a child. These ones rarely treated her kindly. There were many that treated her almost like a slave, making her work for what ever scraps she received. Running away didn't do much good either. Once she was reported missing, she would just be dragged back by the authorities when they found her. I'm not sure how she would have met Salem, but she was still young and impressionable at the time. Bitter, jaded, yes, but ultimately still naive/inexperienced enough to be easily manipulated. I'd say 19 at the oldest. She probably did something that brought her to Salem's attention.. Something dumb, but that made Salem see her as a potentially useful recruit. Why does Cinder what power? Being a foster kid leaves one feeling pretty powerless and insignificant. Salem gave her a direction and stoked that bitterness into hatred and the drive for power Cinder has. Given past connections, it likely wouldn't take too much to get her blaming Ozpin, possibly extending that hatred towards the rest of the world, and believing that the Maidens' powers are rightfully hers. Cinder has to get some training and work put in, but in a few years, she's ready to use. This is a pretty horrible attempt, I'll admit, but I'm not putting too much effort into it. XD Seems to me like it could work though, probably with some tweaks.

12:49 Holy shit... Where is that from?

At 3:22 are those tears in her eyes?

Honestly, my problem with Cinder is that she was never interesting to me other than "Woo! I killed Pyhrra with my glass firey arrow with my maiden powers!" Literally, other than that, she could easily be removed and have the series go from there just with Mercury and Emerald. Her revenge plot with Ruby never went anywhere until she hired Neo, and she survived TWO near death experiences that could've killed her. Ruby using her silver eyes for the first time and Raven pushing her off the ledge and freezing her. Honestly, what happened with Raven should have been the end of it. But nope! Revenge on Ruby mission is still a go! This time, she hired hitmen(well, hitwomen)!

So, is there a chance you will review Fullmetal Alchemist.

Supposedly, we'll be getting some of her backstory in volume 7. So far, is been hinted to allude to her fairy tale inspiration. ...I just hope we get to actually SEE it instead of just being pure exposition, because there's only so much we can assume from Cinderella's story before it gets debunked, for better or worse.

Even as a beginner I found myself writing a better megalomaniac chara like it's so basic as : *insert being poor/ controlled by others* -*insert speach about being poor or having others live your life for you* -speak (and show!) how being selfish made your chara get out of their bad life -make it a point taht your chara is terrified shitless of the very idea of being controlled -expand on Salem being manipulative by convincing cinder that Salem is the only one she can trust to make decisions for her

Anyone watching Young Justice Outsiders? A show that has more good villains than bad.

Aside from what others write in the comments, another problem for Cinder is her relationship with Ruby Rose, the main protagonist of RWBY. To explain better, Cinder is considered as Ruby's number 1 enemy, just as the Joker is for Batman and the Red Skull is for Captain America, but unlike the Joker and the Red Skull, Cinder has no particular relationship with Ruby, but just a generic hero-villain relationship. How can you be someone's archenemy if your relationship with that someone is so generic? The answer: you just can't. A better arch-enemies relationship is that between Courage and the cruel veterinarian who sent his parents to the moon, and the cruel veterinarian only appears in one episode of Courage the Cowardly Dog, while Cinder appears in almost every episode of RWBY.

If your 50 miles fron your destination and you're driving 50 mph and every mile you decrease your by 1 mph, how long will it to drive that 50 miles?