@@Blastopia Exactly at least Zangief has to earn his shit and position himself well to land the big damage grabs. Marisa just needs to bait and armor through shit like the hulk lol.
It's her defence, Her lack of a wake-up dp and slow lv 1 put her in a bad spot. That combined with her need for resources incentivizes people to play very aggressively against her and drive impact blows up so much of her offence because of the recovery (Half her normals aren't special cancellable). I've seen Problem X get knocked out of tournaments for trying to wind stock at full screen because of drive rush. A few days ago he did it against a Blanka who did a drive rush d/f heavy punch which put him in the corner and a couple of wrong guesses later it was gg. Lily looks good against people who don't lab the matchup but more and more people are exploiting her weaknesses now it's very tough.
That level 1 in particular is why she is so easy to bully, as most jabs will actually recover before it comes out. You're also on point with the stocks, and it looks and feels so bad to have to do ex wind stock so you aren't dancing for basically a full second. Without stocks she's kind of a joke, and it's hard for her to build them on offense like Juri does. So in my eyes she's the worst kind of a "win-more" character.
At least she has a Level 1 SA. Zangief suffers the same fate WITHOUT an invincible option 'till Level TWO, and only BSB a.k.a. The Bomb Dropper, is fast enough to be useful.
Her ex condor wind attack needs to be a true block string and fast cuz it has no purpose other than to be a bait that doesn't really work cuz it's still pretty slow af and very much punishable.
@HostageOnline I'm saying it should be true block string on all heavy attacks medium attacks and maybe light attacks that would give lily players a good option to get windstock and not gamble with the opponents reactions.
If there were a fighting game with two characters and the only difference between the two was one normal did 1 less damage, people would still call that character trash.
@@darius410I agree it is incredibly balanced I tried going back to Tekken after it but shit was ass. I'm a SF fan now, never thought that'd be the case lol
@corvoyami3192 lol hell people don't realise how much other games be unbalanced. MvC2 most would have it as one of the best games ever. Half the roster unplayable.
And to think they "nerfed" her, taking away Jump back ex dive. I know that's how how the move is supposed to work, but she needs it. At least they have us Jump back lvl 2.
As a JP main, I feel like he does well against characters that need to stack like Jamie and Manon I'd say best tech would just keep getting in the JP's face, bait out counter & drive rush and don't try to stack when in mid screen, cuz I'll be able to reset the position much easier from there. Try to stack when you're closer and off a hard KD. I've noticed JP's do well when characters keep pressing buttons because I can send you full screen off a mistake and do my bullshit. Patience is key
That Kimberly’s combo and bomb setup into super confirm were amazing. I’m getting a lot better at Kim but both bomb setups and landing the aerial command grab for the combo extend are a serious sticking point for me and I really hope to get better at it
Something about no sauce but I'm subbed to elchakotay and see him styling on fools with her whenever he uploads so iunno. She fun and cool, all i need.
Her only reversal is the level 2 super and it's bad. OD enhanced spire, her best move, can be countered with drive reversal. MP and HP wind stock can be DIed.
OD enhanced spire is mostly useful for going thru projectiles or for certain corner juggles. But you can put the opponent in a similar situation with just enhanced spire and be only +1 instead of +2 . And if they DR the non-OD, then thats a win for the Lily. The mp and hp wind stores can lose to DI, but once Lily mixes in LP wind store to recover in time, it makes going for a DI at all a bit more risky.
@@matthewdellatorre4679 You go back to full screen neutral with less damage on board than most characters get in a single good interaction. That's what happens.
@@qspec2002 yeah if they were basically mashing DI the moment they see cr.hp or b.hp and catch it early, then it can win. But that's risky in itself and can be baited by just using either of those in isolation to see what they do. Main point is the good Lily's like Problem X are often rotating between cancelling a heavy into LP store as a bait, cancelling to mp or hp store on block, doing lp store raw in neutral, doing mp/hp store raw in neutral and holding momentarily and releasing if someone walks forward, etc. There is no 100% safe path. It becomes a guessing game on both sides and the most conservative option after some conditioning tends to be using more LP stores than anything else. There are also some situations to hit cr.hp meaty and cancelled into mp store as a true blockstring, such as after an SPD and immediately drive rushing and timing cr.hp so it only hits the 2nd part and at their feet.
Lily can't have been bad, Capcom nerfed her in the rashid patch so obviously she was the best character in the game. (Kidding, obviously, back-jump EX dive was a bug, not a feature. I'm sad to see it go either way)
That's the real test; getting windstocks safely, and making each of those moves count. Nothing more frustrating that getting windstock and failing to even connect with opponents to take advantage of the plus frame.
Anti-air with cHp and follow up with heavy swing, then do light wind and you automatically have two stocks. If you opt to end your combos in medium wind (fake) a few times to bait out D.Impact then later cHp into light spire and counter their D.Impact with your own and you have 3 stocks. After that, ensure to end combos with medium swing to keep at least 2 stocks and always have pressure and projectile blow up always handy. Signed -A Lily Main
Lily is not nearly as bad as people make her out to be.She has alot of good stuff easily the best pokes in the game(that also doubles as an anti air and is arguably also the best in the game),her command grab can get you out of nowhere and do massive damage etc.
Lily is just a really different playstyle. She doesn't have insane combo routes but she has really good pressure with her wind stocks and command grab IMO.
Personally I feel like grapplers in this game should be spending their super bar more often. Manon players are starting to understand this. As I Zangief player I get more mileage out of using level 1-2 supers over level 3.
Lily's a grappler at the end of the day. A buff or two would be nice, but maybe she'd be a bit broken. I'd like to hear what other grapplers have that she doesn't.
Lily is weak. Capcom gave her the best special move in the game in OD Condor Spire so they had to balance it out by making her trash in every other aspect of her game.
Lily Buff List: Ex windstock tomahawk buster is full invincible. Or Maker her lvl 1 invincible on frame 1 and faster to catch whiffed 4 frames. Double stacked DP should be Invincible cause its double stacked. Or Lvl 1 should catch whiffed buttons cause why am I punished for reacting?! Speed that thang up!
Randomly throwing this in here but when Dhalsim Ryu and Zangief beat Lily, their lines seem to hint that she’s got more to offer in terms of story. Personally it seems like they’re hinting that she might have to meet Necalli at some point. Maybe she’s a decendant of one of the ancient warriors he fought in the past and that’s how she got her wind spirit.
As a Lily main, as much as i enjoyed playing her, i will honestly say yes Justin she's sucks. For starter, 1) Her OD + windstock Condor Spire can't even beat normal Blanka ball or Honda normal headbutt and DI can still punish it. 2) Her normal DP doesn't have invisibility and can only be used as anti air or combo ender. 3) Her pushback after normal throw is ridiculously far so i can't play throw loop like the other cast. 4) Her super 1 have very slow startup which is quite unreliable. 5) Some of her normals...oh my, they are just straight garbage. In the end, she have more cons than pros and i hope Capcom give her a good buff in the future.
@@LEWfromdaHOU My friend, every characters have poke that can stop Blanka ball and Honda headbutt. But writing _'used those pokes to stop the ball and headbutt'_ is a lot easier than done. I mean, you need a correct timing with those pokes and one mistake will lead to trade or counter hit. For example, go search ProblemX Lily vs EndingWalker Honda match and you'll see ProblemX never use Lily poke to stop the headbutt. He mostly used parry to stop it and the rest either he blocks or just got hit by the headbutt. Lily pokes have slow recovery frames which is not reliable to stop Blanka ball or Honda headbutt. And i did used Tomahawk Buster to stop the ball / headbutt but that was just some coincidence. I rather used parry which is safer than risk a whiff or trade.
@@thepuppetmaster9284 You're not Problem X. You're not EndingWalker. And you're not fighting anyone close to their ability. So don't use them as a comparison. By the way you talk, you sound like you can't beat anybody. You're just so damn negative about her. How are you a Lily main?????? Don't argue over what's easy or hard with Lily. Just get good.
Am I the only one who finds the sound of Jamie drinking infuriating? The gulp and aaah? The mechanic itself is fine but every time I hear that noise I want to smash the television. Same feelings about the drinking in FFXVI lol.
It's something you really notice and get pissed about when you fight against him. Like bro I'm doing my best street fighting over here and you are over there doing sweet fuckall and getting stronger for it
That Dhalsim didn't give you those points because you weren't using the quest item you get from saving a rat about to be eaten by a cat at the beginning of the game. Without them you can't face the "true form" of IAMTHEFINALBOSS and get those points, Justin.
@@Mindcry7181 ty for answering. Been trying mk11 but seems like waste of time not a lot of players. I haven’t played sf sense the arcade version of 2 lol
@@mikesantiago1236fighting in fighting games is only gonna get harder as time moves on, the best time to start will always be now. Better to start now than later yknow?
Yes, there are a lot of tutorials and moves and World Tour mode helps you learn stuff too just buy having fun and playing through it. The game has a big following and there are plenty of other beginners to help you learn
Man, Justin, I am surprised that people let you get away with those Condor Spire. These are so easy to simply Drive Impact and you were just keep using them either in neutral or in cancels... it is one of the reason why I don't believe the ranks are representative anymore. Getting to master for good players is way easier in 6 than in V.
Not everyone is going to be ready for the matchup from a knowledge standpoint, especially for a less popular character like Lily. And this footage is from Justin's stream at least a few weeks ago, maybe even back in late June. So players were even less apt to be familiar.
Isn't that just because there are not that many Lily in the higher ranks, though? So theses player might be good, but they're not used to the match-up?
God dammit Justin, you can Daigo Parry with the shit some homeless person left outside my apartment last week. You can literally make anything work. Next video, Unpolished Turd Road to Master.
Yet another demonstration that any character is good if you play it correctly. Sir, you make the gods of Teotenango proud! Teotenango is an archaeological site in southern Mexico. A very windy cluster of pyramids atop a hill.
Major part mark Lily as the worst character in the game is between dont have a Invisible Reversal, her better stuff need to windstocks every time because her moves are punishable witout Windstacks, the same her damage is low without Windtacks.
When you said you should buy lily's outfit does that mean its an unlock for actual money or game points? Miss playing street fighter and didn't realize it until now. But I am not a fan of unlocks not doable unless you pay more actual money.
@@fozymilogranotheres a difference between good players, pro players and amateurs, the way justin plays is meant to throw you off your game like you were never prepared to be, so even good players get washed by him
She sucks because Angel and Ramon exist…you know…los mexicanos auténticos y chidos. And Lily’s design in 2023 is a big YIKES especialmente aquí en mexico :v
seems like all the stock charging characters get frowned upon by the pros but I can't blame them at the level and stakes their at. jamie and lily are fun to play but who wants to have to build up potential when you can pick a character with that ability already present? Good luck to all you pros, its hard to see you guys lose specially when your journey has been followed since the early days of learning and growing at a game.
Zangief main here. I'm having so much fun with SF6, way more than I did with SF5. Granted I'm a semi-casual player, probably won't ever leave Platinum, but casual games are so much fun with Manon, Honda and Guile...
She´s only good looking,in terms of gameplay?............................................she doesn't have much moves Ryu:Shoryu,Hadouken,Tatsu,the "donkey kick" the charge hadouken Lily:Going forward move,going up move,grab...........................and a wind that i don't know what you can do with it. Question,why the points are so special for everyone?,explain to me what you can do with those points,because you cannot buy things like in sfv like characters i think,so why so special about them?.
Tier list merely point out which characters have more tools than others. Lily lacking a true dp, a 4 frame LP, not lk (pitiful knee), and a full unique kit vs a hampered kit. Example: Cammy's charged heavy specials vs getting stocks. Some characters are just built better than others. Lily is on the bottom end where as Luke is on the mountain top just by comparing tools.
I’m a modern Lily player and I feel like she’s solid. I wouldn’t buff her at all and think the best buffs you could give her would be nerfs to stronger characters.
i mean she has glaring weaknesses that really start getting exposed diamond to master for me. Her disadvantage for one with the lack of an invincible dp and slow speed for sure. When compared with the rest of the cast it can be pretty hard to deal with. Like I guarantee jwong not pulling out a lily at evo.
Just want to say that i appreciate this kind of cleaner edit much more, while i have no doubt the more heavily edited ones takes more effort, they're just too much and i felt like i couldn't even watch a match in peace
Ive got close to 200 hours in sf6 and I absolutely struggle against Lily. My win percent against her is like 25% at best. For context i win 61% of my games with Marissa and 57% with Chun-li. I over .500 against practically everyone else. Idk what thw hell is up with Lily or maybe just people that pick her are more skilled on average. I sweat when i see her little face.
Just guard cancel her and she becomes a lot easier to deal with. If she put you in a block string, you will lose 2,5 or 3 bars, if you guard cancel her, you lose only 2 and she would have wasted resources.
