They need to build a space ship floor made of a switchable artificial Higgs field with neutrinos and neon plasma. Everyone knows that. Also, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Neumah To be fair, if there were such a thing as an artificial Higgs field, and it were strong enough, it could absolutely be used for artificial g-forces by pumping your mass high enough to attract the entire spacecraft to your feet. It would also probably require more energy than a star to power, though, so...yeah.
IceMetalPunk BUT WHAT IF WE COULD HARNESS STARS FOR THEIR POWER! And no, I don't mean solar power. More like geothermal. Basically like a world eater of sorts. But with stars.
IceMetalPunk We can create large amounts of light and sound from relatively little energy. Why couldn't we do that with a Higgs field? What makes creating Higgs fields so horribly inefficient compared to other artificial comforts?
spin them while they sleep... that way the astronauts are lying down and not becoming as disoriented when they move. i believe the vessel at 3:02 would be useful to test it out.
NOONTIDE actually a pretty good idea, it'd be interesting to see if the effects of simulated gravity are important enough while lying down to slow or even stop bone mass loss. Interesting prospect nonetheless. An cylinder of a great enough mass could be used as kinetic energy storage to avoid energy loss.
If you've read 'The Expanse' they simulate gravity with thrust. This the postulates ships that are more like skyscrapers where down is the engines and up is the nose, but each deck is accessed by an elevator. Keeping large ships at about 1g of thrust would not be so difficult, but we'd need fuel sources to become more economical.
Jeez you guys are dumb... obviously the world is a disc, mounted on the backs of huge elephants that ride on the shell of the great Turtle A'Tuin as he drifts slowly through space
That bit about being tethered to another craft gave me an idea (which someone else has probably had before me). Instead of making a full disc or ring, why not make a smaller craft tethered to a counter weight? Increasing the tether length increases the diameter of the spin without drastically increasing the amount of material needed to build it (vs a ring space station).
Well.. Once we perfect our propulsion technology this problem simply goes away - you could just travel in a constant one g acceleration and get a nice steady constant artificial gravity. With acceleration like that you can even travel to nearby stars in matter of years, although time will un faster and advance faster on Earth... Of course this kind of acceleration is HUGE, if you consider that you should maintain it constantly and we have nothing even close to something like this that could be maintained in many years. Btw. at half trip you turn your spaceship around and brake with constant 1g deceleration.
I'm reminded of "Rendezvous with Rama". That ship used centripetal force to create artificial gravity, but it was also so huge (20km diameter x 54km long) that your head and feet felt relatively the same forces.
I am reminded of Ringworld. A ribbon at the right distance from the local sun with an inner ring of sunshades to give day/night (noon or midnight only, but 24 hour cycle). Ringworld is rotating at just the right speed to match our gravity. It would take all the material in the solar system to build such a ring so it is a way off.
I wish there was a way to use electomagnetism. I've read that electomagnetism allows small particles to group together into large objects in space in place of gravity's relatively weak force... But I can't for the life of me think of where to even _begin_ making it so that we could use that in place of gravity on a space station.
+Red Rogue You mean like that video where they suspend a frog in mid-air with magnets? Hmm. If you did that much more powerfully and could have the force all directed to the floor, that would be great, except for the part of not being able to use metal anywhere.
yes but particles have to be ionized first which is impractical as you'd have to ionize every particle in your body to feel the effect and you'll probably die long before then..
yes but particles have to be ionized first which is impractical as you'd have to ionize every particle in your body to feel the effect and you'll probably die long before then..
3:08 I recall from a documentary about going to Mars of having an exercise machine like this, and I thought it would be smart to first use something like it on the ISS. So, I'm happy to know someone had a similar idea. But, you should have mentioned that these would only work in pairs: one going clock-wise and the other going in the other direction, otherwise the _entire_ Space Station would rotate in the other direction.
i think its pretty obvious why we haven't yet. we just haven't built anything large enough in space yet. and the reason for that, is that it's kind of expensive to lift very much out of our gravity well. we've got a lot of things, floating around up there, but the entire mass of them, probably isn't sufficient, even if mass alone were, to build something of the proportions of a space wheel we could spin up, to provide it. maybe some day. it isn't something we couldn't do. its just something we don't have enough stuff up there, to build yet. nor a cheap enough way to get enough stuff there.
Here I thought the Higgs Field would come to play at some point. If we could control how much mass an object had, it seems like it would pretty easy to give, say, the floor of a spaceship/station enough mass and distribute it enough that you would have something resembling natural gravity. Though it would also attract space debris, which could be bad.
Another solution for long trips, one that would give you very realistic Earth like gravity and shorten the trip by a LOT, is with some form of nuclear propulsion, accelerate the ship at 1G. You have to turn the ship around and start decelerating in the opposite direction about halfway, which would probably be a fun maneuver, but you could get to Mars in a matter of days.
dark matter resistance, a ship with a thicker bio-magnetic steel, copper and platinum oppositely charged ion oxides silicone gas plasma atmosphere, which reacts in the gut to methane and and a bio-magnetic silicone bodysuit, you could generate electromagnetic resistance, guided by computer to move resistance, and force in a constant to simulate gravity...like locked in jello but the computer would release and tighten according in sequence to your own muscles to keep you on a designated floor
Testing a centrifuge on earth has a gravity effect ( in addition to the spin) that throws your sense of balance off. However in space... Your balance would be adjusted by your brain until you were used to the spin. Just like learning to walk. you 1st are a bit tipsy then you get used to it.
+ABW941 Yes, if I recall it was mentioned in one episode that the inner ring of it where the garden area was the ground was rotating at like 60mph or something like that.
Centripetal force is the most plausible method of creating artificial gravity. Although it will require large spinning object, it is the only means scientifically possible other than using actual gravity. Real gravity would require a ridiculously heavy ballast made out of exotic materials (or an utterly ridiculously heavy ballast made of normal material.) Additionally, the centripetal force of an object with constant rotational velocity is proportional to distance, not distance squared or the inverse of distance squared. Gravity and magnetism are proportional to the inverse distance squared. Meaning, if you double the distance from the center of gravity, the force of gravity will be quartered. The means, to keep the force of gravity within a narrow given range (like +/- 10%) over a given distance, a centripetal system needs slightly less than half the distance of a system operating on an inverse square force mechanism.
Another way to create gravity, which doesn't incur coriolis effects, is to use acceleration. If we could develop a pulse fusion drive we could build spacecraft that accelerate at 9.85 metres per second squared, which would generate an earth equivalent gravity. Accelerating at one g to the midpoint of the journey then rotating the ship through 180 degrees and decelerating the rest of the way you could reach the Moon in 3.5 hours, Mars (when it's in opposition at around 70 million kilometres) in just two days. Just eight hours accelerating at one g gives you a speed of one million kph at a distance of four million kilometres, which would be fast enough to get you anywhere in the solar system in a matter of weeks or months.
centripetal force- keeps a spinning body connected to the center of rotation. inertia- term used to describe the tendency to do nothing or remain unchanged. the other sci show channel has a really good video where hank talks about how when people say centripetal force they usually mean inertia. sorry scishow space but the point goes to hank on this video.
Maybe what you ACTUALLY need is just an engine/fuel efficient enough so that you can just be accelerating at 9.8m/s2 for the first half of your trip and then decelerating at 9.8m/s2 for the second.
instead of building a wheel, spin the entire station. tethered the station to a cylinder with a counter balance and spin the station. sounds crazy, but it just might work, or send them off into space or towards earth.
You just have to accelerate the ship continuously at 1G, and make the back of the ship the floor. The people inside will feel 1G acceleration downwards (towards the back of the ship). People have proposed that you accelerate at 1G on the way there and half way there turn around the ship and decelerate at 1G until getting to the destination. This idea has been in countless SciFi books, I'm surprised you didn't cover it.
Everyone keeps confusing artificial and simulated gravity. It's not the same thing. You can simulate gravity in a spinning donut, but artificial gravity implies you're deliberately curving space with technology.
Accelerating spaceships generate "gravity" because the feeling of being stuck to the ground isn't actually gravity -- it's the result of gravity. Gravity just creates acceleration and we're all just falling downwards. It just so happens that the ground stops us. :D
So, what about torque? Would't a small fast spinning object on the make the space station spinn in the other direction? You'd have to use RCS thrusters to counter-act it, and RCS is extremely valuble in space.
What about continuous acceleration space ships? Like using ion thrusters on one side half of the trip and on the other side on the other half. I think the only drawback would be the necessity to have a large amount of power available, what calls for nuclear reactors inside the ship, instead of only solar panels.
Could we maybe simulate Mars' or the moon's gravity to reduce the physiological effects of being spun around at relatively high speed in a centrifuge? On the issue of blood pooling in the feet, there are these suits being tested to help those with poor circulation that I think could be a solution.
What about a large magnetic floor and a tight fitting suit that's magnetic. I imagine it wouldn't work for an entire spacecraft but at least for an exercise area?
In the future, when we develop fusion engines or the likes, it's most likely that the engines will be running at all times, 50% to speed up and 50% to slow down. That way, if they run at a nice 9.8m/s^2 at day, you would need about 1 year to accellerate up, and 1 year to make a suicide burn to decelerate back down to go to Alpha Centauri.
..apparently some ppl have made large heavy objects lighter with just the right frequency and voltage..if gravity is indeed a force,it will prob have some sort of frequency to manipulate...
We should do like they do in Knights of Sidonia and on mass effect dreadnoughts, Have the decks of vessels arranged perpendicular to the ship's axis of thrust, so that the "top" decks are towards the front of the ship and the "bottom" decks are towards the rear of the ship. Or just make the living quarter horizontal like in knights of Sidonia
valentijnraw Then use a "heavy" acceleration engine to gain speed or set a course then switch to a solar sail or ion/plasma thruster or similar engine.
Spartan John-G172 what kind of an engine? the problem with that is that you have to bring a lot of fuel too. once that fuel is burned up, youre not accelerating anymore and therefore no artificial gravity. solor sails or plasma thruster just wont do the trick.
valentijnraw Well the best type of engine that would get you fast enough to go anywhere reasonable fast would be an anti-matter engine. But we all understand the problems with that and the issues with storage.
Spartan John-G172 but ok, when we do find an engine that will give us that acceleration, at a point in time ur gonna reach relativistic speeds ( aproxx light speed) by then it will take almost infinite energy to go even faster so acceleration stops and then you still have no artificial gravity
Perhaps a metal suit and magnetic floor? Or wind. Both strange but might help muscles. Blood etc wouldn't notice of course. Or just a spinner while you sleep or relax. I assume you wouldn't get disoriented while laying
Why does the radius have to be big in order to get a larger centripetal acceleration? Isn't centripital acceleration = v²/r, which means that a smaller radius would give a larger acceleration?
Could the astronauts themselves have some sort of "gravity suit" that they could wear, say 12-16 hours per day? That would solve the "ship" size issue, if it was possible....
Can I suggest a device that slams astronauts to some padded walls of the spaceship or something to keep their bone density still ok when theyre up there?
All matter is affected by magnetism due to the magnetic field around particles with charges. Large magnetic field could be utilized as artificial gravity.
Simpler way, just get something small and incredibly high mass (like some neutron star material) of sufficient amount that it equates to earth's gravity, and strap it to the bottom of your ship. Who cares if it makes your ship slightly harder to propel through space ;)
wouldn't it be just more effective if there was just an artificial gravity exercise room? that would decrease the amount of muscle and bone atrophy the astronaut experiences and it would give an increase to mission viability. or would being submerged in liquid with the artificial gravity on most of the trip or at least during off hours be a viability? I think we'll need some form of hibernation chambers to be developed before we think about long term space trips.
The bola design is probably the cheapest was to do it to a comfortable standard. Windows might raise an issue of disorientation though. 8 or 16 k monitors fed by live feed from a non spinning camera satellite might be better (que long discussion about artificial windows).
Why not talk about the tether solution ? Not having a 50 meter radius space station, but one has and a second stage or any mass on the other end of the 100m tether. It would provide the necessary gravity without the cost of the super-spacestration.
What if you created a suit that somehow was attracted to the ground? I dunno, like a shirt filled with magnets and magnets on the floor attracting those to simulate being pulled down?
Oh, lets rotate a short tether at 1/7 RPM, great.... The equation is middle school stuff g=v^2/r; Acceleration equals Velocity squared over Radius. Velocity is also equal to Radius*AngularVelocity (the further out you are on a disc spinning at one speed, the quicker you move horizontally), so together, g=(ω*r)^2/r=ω^2*r. About as simple as it gets, engineering wise. From the example in the video: 5/10000 * 9.8(m/s) = (1/7(RPM) / 60(sec/min) * 2pi(rad/rev) )^2 * radius Solve for radius: r = 22m or 73ft At that tiny distance you'd need to spin 44 times faster, or over 6RPM, which isn't ridiculous, but as he pointed out, making the radius larger helps a lot. If we used a 100m, or a little over a football field, long tether it would only need to spin a little over 1 RPM, which is reasonable. The cable would only need to resist the weight of the couple-ton capsule (remember, we're simulating earth's gravity here) which is no problem for even a simple steel wire, let alone kevlar or something. Basically, wtf did they expect to happen. Do it right or stop wasting our time and resources. Kthxbye
How about creating magnetic field coming from the floor and wearing a suit with built-in metallic plates that would drag you to the floor with the force equal to the gravitational force on Earth?
It is simple to simulate gravity without spinning. Accelerate at 1g. Einstein tells us that it is impossible to differentiate that from a real gravity field. Not *easy* of course, since it would require a lot of fuel, but simple.
CorwynGC actually ive always imagined a intersteller mission that just has constant one G acceleration anll the way there and back to keep everyone comfortable.
Isn't people weightless in space because they are falling (in orbit), the earth is stuck in the sun's gravitational pull so wouldn't a spaceship heading for mars have gravity towards the sun?
No because from your way from earth to mars you are still on an (elliptical) orbit. The only time you feel "gravity" is when accellerating at earth and decellerating at mars.
Grafight23 That's just not true. If you were at Low Earth Orbit Altitude without any relative speed you would simply fall down to earth. On the other hand with enough speed you could feel weightless on the surface of the earth. but thats not very efficient due to drag. thats actually how LEO ist defined: as an altitude where theres almost no air friction anymore.
I don't understand your comment. You said it right the first reply: You wouldn't feel gravity from Earth to Mars. Then I said that you would float inside the spaceship from Earth to Mars, and you say "that's just not true". I don't get it. What is not true? That the effect of gravity diminishes with distance? I know that the LEO point gravity is 90% what it is at sea level, but that's not what we're talking about. The original post was talking about going to Mars. The route would be something like this: (Pathfinder mission) mars.nasa.gov/MPF/mpfwwwimages/traject.jpg
Can I facepalm? Can someone show me how to facepalm through comments? That's SO impractical. You'd be better off creating jetpacks that point down and create downward force that way. Wait a minute... that's actually not a bad idea...
Centrifuges are somewhat impractical anyway, but if in the future scientists finally discovered the graviton and learned how to produce and manipulate it, that's where we would finally have real working artificial gravity.
***** That's not specifically true. Gravitons are a type of force carrying virtual particle that propagates at the speed of light infinitely. Quantum mechanics tells us that they exist, but we simply haven't been able to actually view or study them, so we don't actually know where they come from. We obviously understand that there's a correlation between the amount of mass an object has and its gravitational force, but we don't know where the point of causation is. If we knew anything about them, there's a chance we could figure out how to create them and manipulate them.
Kaitlyn Amanda Observing the graviton will not allow us to manipulate it to create artificial gravity. We already have observed all the other bosons, but we can't artificially trigger the weak force or whatever. Forces are mediated by virtual bosons, and you can't just create them in just the right way to trigger whatever you want.
tobywilson Gravity isn't a byproduct of the weak force. It's a fundamental force of nature in and of itself. There's a relationship between an objects speed and its output gravitational force. Objects moving toward the speed of light have much higher relativistic mass than at rest. Theoretically we could use this relationship to produce artificial gravity, but the amount of energy required to do so would be enormous.
Kaitlyn Amanda I do know the weak force and gravity are different forces... Perhaps you didn't understand what I was saying. I'm pointing out that discovering the boson associated with gravity won't allow us to create artificial gravity like you suggested. I back this point up by saying we have discovered the bosons for all the other forces, and can't just artificially manipulate them. Also, you can't use relativistic mass to create artificial gravity either. Mass isn't Lorentz invariant, you said it yourself.
they say mind over matter. right? well why dont we come up with a component that messes with out internal gyros and therefore letting us think or tricking the mind into thinking we are in gravity ? some will say well what about the bones and heart problems, you cant trick those,.....wellllll yes you can, our body produces cells that fights off bad outcomes and the body is really good at protecting itself "is us that arent good at doing this. which is why we depend on our mind and again we play mind games therefore tricking the mind aka mind games" so that being said if our internal gyros dont noticed anything wrong our body will keep producing all the normal procedures to endure any "bad outcome" just a thought.....
You know Humans? You also could simply use a Artificial Matter Pressure Device and set the Movement direction to one direction while it connected to a ship. Thing is ... i know for certain that you arent even close to figureing that out.
Oh yeah, those things! I remember seeing a documentary about them. You think that they would have figured out that the ancient structure they call "Stonehenge" is actually an old trans-warp beacon.
potterfandf I`m not sure. What is definetly for sure that their preception about those "Pyramids" in this Large Dessert Area is wrong. Its Clearly visible that those were more Primitive attemts to make use of Dark Matter for Energy.
how about three units.. each attached with a strong cord very.. VERY long cord.. they each land by them selves detaching at each landing (re-attachable) The center unit will be used to navigate the overall movement.. and the two opposite units will be spinning around each other with a vast distance between them.. making the speed needed to move them very low. This will also help keep the fuel separate.. but astronauts would have to venture out every day to check on the fuel source and jets just in case. This would also have to be built up in space.. but cord is much easier to do this then. This could save a lot of money.. time and readjustments including stressful daily routines for astronauts. There are many, many pros of this design. Plus.. the less compact and reliant this carft is on a close build.. the less likely it is to be destroyed. God my mind is racing.
Ok wait a minute. We already have this technology. We have had this for a while. First off gravity is achieved when the magnetic forces from the north and south poles along with the spin of the earth. By using the ideal of a Dyson sphere you can achieve this. Or simply something moving in a rotation along with the magnetic forces of north and south. You can look on RU-vid or do a search on google and find many videos of astronauts walking in shuttles and on the ISS. This is an indication they are using artificial gravity. Science has gotten to where it all has to be achieved by a science that is proven when basic common sense can do the same and still can be proven. Get your heads out your rears and think. Basic common sense is all you need to figure out the basic concepts of anything. Use what you have been given since birth.
harley mclachlan At first I just kind of laughed but then I thought about warp drives, from what I know of them they bend space in front of and behind something in order to move it, mass does not seem to be an issue. That being said it might be possible to move much larger things than ships with such devices depending on the amount of resources and will available at the time.
A common misconception in the discussion about simulating gravity through rotation is that the gravity has to be 9.8m/s/s in order to be useful. Surely even a fraction of that (1/3 to 1/2 G) would have great benefits vs. zero G.
Exactly. An idea that I have is that for using artificial gravity for manned space exploration, the artificial gravity that is created would be halfway between the home planet and the destination planet. For example, if we were to go from Earth (1g) to Mars (0.376g), we would simulate artificial gravity of 0.688g so that the astronauts can transition from Earth's gravity to Mars's gravity on the way to Mars, and then transition from Mars's gravity to Earth's gravity on the way back.
+Japsters714 Not really. If we simulate less gravity, then the centrifuge could be smaller and still have the same head to feet gravity difference ratio.
Actually, that is true, but that isn't the gain that I'm talking about. Bone deterioration is a result of not having the 1g acceleration that the body is used to on earth. Having less than 1g will almost always have deteriorating effects for human bone, and as long as that acceleration is less than earth gravity, it'll still have the same bone-deteriorating effect. Using less acceleration would both lessen the cost but also lessen the gain that the astronauts would get from it. So still not cost-effective. Besides, your transition model does work, but why do we need to do it? We can simply stay at 0g in space then slowly acclimate once we're at mars (or any planet). No need for costs.
Japsters714 "Having less than 1g will almost always have deteriorating effects for human bone" True, but your bones would degrade a lot slower than if you were in microgravity. "We can simply stay at 0g in space then slowly acclimate once we're at mars (or any planet). No need for costs." That plan seems a lot more worse than my plan.
TheKorzcola do you think there will still be an "us" after the creation on AI? I don't know what I think, it could go either way. It could be our greatest ally or our most formidable enemy.
Of course there will still be an "us" just maybe not as we know it. We may merge with the machine and become a whole new form of life. They call it the technological singularity because nobody can predict what will happen once A.I. is more intelligent than us.
S7one_47 Well, it doesn't have to be us and them. We could make AI that think and act just like any other humans - just much faster. They'd essentially be human without a body, which could be remedied either through a robotics or b cybernetics - if we could eventually grow a body, you could create an artificial brain and use myoelectric junctions to allow for full muscle control.
