Id say that is not the point. I mean, lame villains can also be close to killing the heroes or do damage... The key is that those villains have real agendas and are neatly linked with the story's themes. Tai Lung is a villain who thought all his life his purpouse was denied from him, but was never suppoused to be who he thought he was. Shen never made ammends with the past, and weaponized the fact he tormented Po. Drago came to believe violence and fear could overcome everything. Grimmel was the embodiment of "sometimes you have to let other people go for their own good". Death requires no explanation. Goldilocks embodies how obsessions deprive us of life, much like Horner does the same with greed. Tighten is a perfect foil to what Metroman embodied, thus making Megamind become the hero he never thought he was suppoused to be. And so and so on.
What I love about Tai Lung is that he actually demonstrates how an obsession broke him; "who told me I deserved it!? Who made me train until my bones broke!?" He may have had a darkness inside him, but it was Shifu's obsession that actually turned him.
@@estebangutierrez160 Sympathetic indeed, but still evil, each villain is a reflect of Po in some way, Tai Lung, just like Po, was swayed away by Shifu's obsession with control, Shifu believed that the strong should strive to become stronger meanwhile the weak should be content with that, futile control in the great scheme of things, Po was rejected by this philosophy and Tai Lung nurtured by it, but one became a hero by accepting his flaw, and the other a villain by wanting to be something else for someone else
Well. If he were chosen to be the Dragon Warrior, he would still become what he is. He would not be able to understand what the Dragon Scrolls means. Tigress, is another vesion of Tai Lung. But she chooses acceptance, rather than violence when being refused. In real life, we will sometimes be promised what we can not be. What defines us is our attitude to those situations.
@@nickdinh4205 quite right. Power would have been another push over the edge. I guess Po was likely the one best suited for the role since he did not really want it as a goal. He just wanted to be like his heroes.
I think what works for me about Dreamworks villains is that the best ones always have a reason to be evil even if it’s something small. Jack Horner was a jealous, spoilt child. Lord Shen was vain and entitled most likely because of his upper class. And then there’s villains like Ramases and Tai Lung where we see how they’re more broken than evil However, whilst they are understandable and sometimes sympathetic like the last two examples, the film doesn’t revolve around trying to bring them to the light. The films still acknowledge the fact that these are horrible people who deserve to be punished in spite of their reasons for being evil. I feel like HTTYD2 portrays this ideology well. Hiccup fails at reasoning with Drago and so loses his father. This is essentially Dreamworks saying how the idea of redeeming these horrible villains is stupid
Honestly current Disney tries way to hard to make you relate to villains like Namaari a person who is so toxic to Raya and is just forgiven because she did a thing that most humans would do
I feel like we need more villains who are kinda right. Most of the time (at least in animated works), villains are either completely evil or, on occasion redeemable (which I don't really see as much, tbh). It'd be fun to have a complex story where the villains, even if they're in the wrong, have an understandable viewpoint.
Because "Sympathy for the Devil" is a played out and distorted writing convention, and it's nowhere near as valuable, organic or novel as Mainstream Media and normies make it out to be...
Dreamworks taking the Danny Trejo route with villains. Like Danny when he plays villains he prefers his character die to symbolize being bad never pays off n how they’ll always lose in the end, dreamworks does the same by not allowing the villains redeem themselves
Every Dreamworks movie has a different villain but what I like about most Dreamworks villains is that when there is a backstory to them that explains why and how they became evil the movie doesn't try to excuse their terrible actions. Also, they tend to just be more human.
EXACTLY!! DreamWorks makes AMAZING villains BECAUSE of this reason! Each little detail gives us more context for each antagonist. Plus, there's risk and the reward after is WORTH IT!!
An extremely underrated Dreamworks villain, for me, is Pitch Black from Rise of the Guardians. He tends to be credited with being "okay" or "functional" at most, but I think there is a subtlety to his portrayal that escapes a lot of people. Like Death from The Last Wish, he is a force of nature - the embodiment of fear. But his power, his very existence, depends on children's belief in him, and he is unfairly crushed by the well-intentioned Guardians, who don't recognise his necessary role in their cosmos. Consequently, he rises up in a vicious revolt and almost obliterates them in return. The scenario could be understood as an allegory for fear, unhealthily suppressed, turning into consuming paranoia. But the narrative does something incredibly subtle with Pitch's portrayal. He starts out as a rather flat, one-dimensional villain who revels in scaring children simply for the sake of it. But in his next appearance, the film adds a second dimension to him: his joy in frightening children is really no different than the Easter Bunny's joy in hiding eggs, or the Tooth Fairy's enthusiasm for teeth. He is simply doing his job. And his desire to be believed in, just like the Guardians, is deeply understandable. Then, in his confrontation with Jack Frost, a third dimension is added: his desperate desire for companionship. In trying to convince Jack to become his ally, he isn't the Emperor trying to seduce him to the dark side, but a lonely person asking for a friend. And his expression at being rejected, as brief as it is, is heart-wrenching. And after the climax, having quietly built up all that nuance, having established him as a force of nature being denied its place ... there is no payoff. Pitch is gleefully beaten up by the Guardians, comedically has a tooth whacked out, and is then dragged to eternal torment by his own nightmares. And that might seem like folly on the part of the writers, but there is an understated genius about it. You're left with a feeling of hollowness, seemingly the only one who really understood his character. But you're not a part of the story. Pitch isn't as openly complex and layered as Rameses, or as intrinsic to the main character's development like Shen - but the depth of his character is the kind that dawns on you gradually, the longer you think about it. Which, I think, is why people tend to overlook it.
Annnd just when I thought I couldn’t want a sequel any more- come on guys, just give the guy Halloween and let him be adored For real though a sequel or a couple of Christmas/holiday specials could’ve been perfect for fleshing these kind of things out
@@Valledorthedragon Per definition, I'm skeptical of sequels since they tend to be less impactful than their predecessors ... but imagine a sequel where somebody finds that knocked-out tooth at the bottom of the lake and visits Pitch's memories.
Im always suprised how dreamworks can make the villains not only effective in the story but also comical. Usually badly written comical villains dont carry tension but dreamworks balances it so well. Tai lung escapes from maximum secure prison with a feather. Also Tai Lung: He's a panda. You're a panda. what you gonna do big guy, Sit on me?
Exactly. I loved how Jack Horner was evil, but funny. He made me laugh a lot as someone watching from the outside, but if I was actually against him his jokes would be absolutely terrible, especially because they're almost all at everyone else's expense. Saying he was gonna shoot a puppy in the face is funny when you know the puppy is going to be fine, but it's also a horrible joke from a horrible person.
I don't like that being nice gets this stigma nowadays. The internet has corrupted intentions to make them a lot more malicious than they're supposed to be. Most of the time it's just about a very basic amount of respect like holding a door for someone behind you or giving your friend a gift. Just a "thank you" is enough in most instances. And I know it's because people antagonize incels and a handful of them labelled themselves as nice guys but it saddens me that being nice is now difficult to detach from people like that.
@@g.n.s.153 The issue is it's not being nice, like doing generally kind things, it's a sort of toxic niceness, where they want to be rewarded for doing the bare minimum.
@@GardeniaCreations there is the problem, the "bare minimum" is not being nice, it is just ignoring you conpletly and not care about you, like a ground 0. A negative ground would be being malicious towards you and a positive ground would be being good towards you, so no, being nice is not the bare minimum. The real problem about these so called nice guys, is that being nice is only showing that you are willing to help, not entitled to being liked
They're important to the story and more importantly, the themes. They aren't just random dangers, they're the best dangers to oppose the hero in their specific stories
Otherwise they feel like walls just placed in, not ones that really adapt to who they're blocking. Or walls that require more than breaking them to open, or you don't even need to break them.
Without villains, we wouldn't be able to learn and grow from the journey in DreamWorks stories from "bad people", we can still have movies without villains, but ones with villains are effective at showing what the bad guy can actually represent in people.
@@definitely_just_floating Maybe but when they are done right, they are done right. I'm a diehard Dreamworks supporter but Encanto did it well along with the Croods 1 and 2.
Dreamworks has a way of telling compelling stories and creating complex characters that are far more relatable than Disney. It tends to show how not all people deserve nor want redemption and how the heroes can feel like actual people. The studio also conveys messages that are all to real. The villains of Dreamworks are compelling and well written and are what people want in villains. Some are evil and some are sympathetic but all have reasons as to why they are who they are.
The Fairy Godmother was probably the start of me liking characters that subverts expectations of a trope by taking what is usually seen as a “good-aligned character” thing, but making it a “bad guy” thing and the other way around. Kinda like how there’s a villain in My Hero Academia that uses her Love powers, but she’s a villain and a guy who has a power seen as a “villain” thing, but he wants to use it for heroism. I love stuff like that.
lol they're talking about gentle and his stupid sidekick. it's one of the worst sub plots in the show imo idk what OP is on about. (in general i do agree with their premise, just don't love the example tho)
I think Hal will always be the most terrifying..because it’s realistic. He’s what the average man (who can’t take no) will do. He WILL spy on you. He WILL stalk you. He’ll ‘rescue’ you. I KNOW a guy like Hal and I fear the day that man is granted any sort of power.
I argue he's not average, he's not willing to work to be average, he's not willing to work for "love", himself, or success, he wants it all handed to him, and when it is, he's still not satisfied. He just wants more
One thing I like about these villains, is that mostly they’re all realistic from a psychological standpoint. Notice how almost none of them start out as a villain. Something happens to them that changes them into a villain. Tai lung, and syndrome (The Incredibles) are perfect examples. Neither started bad. But they turned dark instead.
Disney villains have often been a part of my childhood. Most of the villains from Pixar’s films weren’t a big part of my childhood and while I say the same thing about some of the villains from DreamWorks’s films, I found some of their villains more threatening and funnier.
I like to see lord shen's prophecy in that it says he'll be defeated by a warrior of black and white. And what the mixture of black and white? Gray. And which character is gray? Lord shen. And how does he die in the end? By his own hand. He unintentionally created his own self fulfilling prophecy, and I like to think that just before he's crushed by his own cannon when he closed his eyes he realized his blunder and took it with grace like the peacock he is. He's very similar to the titan kronos or voldemort in that trying to prevent their prophecies they only set it in motion
Shen is white. He's literally a white peacock... Not 'gray'. The "warrior of black and white" is clearly Po, the freaking black and white panda... And Po, the white and black guy, literally defeats him. Exactly as fortold. The cannon killing him is just the cherry on top.
@@dragonxks7685 And yet shen's feathers are indeed marked with black, and shen himself assumed the prophecy meant a panda Not once was it ever directly said it was a panda, he just went all in on that and fate did what it did with po ending up with his foster father and eventually becoming the dragon warrior Shen let himself be crushed by his own creation, his own "hand," at the very end, so the prophecy was fulfilled
The reason I'd label Fairy Godmother as best Villain and not Death is because Death is more of an antagonist for Puss, not a straight up villain. He isn't evil, Death can't be good or evil, it just is. He's vindictive and bending the rules to vent his frustration with Puss, but he's not hurting other people just to get to him, and when Puss was retired he left the cat alone. He has a moral code, it just isn't one that aligns with most people and he was acting out of emotion vs pure logic due to Puss's blatant disregard for the value of his lives.
I think my favorite villain in a DreamWorks movie Hass to be Eris from Sinbad. And I think the way she worked is that it’s her simplicity. She is the goddess of discord and has only one reason to be. That is to cause chaos. And second, I feel like what makes her effective is the fact that being evil is just a game to her. Her actions are motivated simply because she knows that her activities will be fun. I also feel that her actions work in developing the themes of the movie because her motivation is to appeal to Sinbad’s bad qualities. But the way she loses isn’t by Sinbad defeating her, but by Sinbad choosing to be a better person.
Especially since towards the end she yells and calls sinbad a liar. She’s the villain lying is supposed to be good. But no, I’m her alignment, lying about being a bad person is a bad thing. She isn’t evil she just sees things that we see as good as bad.
Gladys is semi-ironically one of the reasons I refuse to ever join HOA!!! 😂😂 Verminator is funny chaotic, and Gladys is terrifying chaotic when it comes to exerting her control over the neighborhood.
@@acrsclspdrcls1365I never thought of Gladys as a Karen before but now that I think about it that is pretty accurate to her and unfortunately she is a Karen with actual power even if it's just a suburb.
A Villain that isn't mentioned in this Video but deserved it is Viggo from dragons Race to the Edge. He challenges Hiccup in a way no other villain, not even from the movies, could do.
For sure! Although, because he’s a series villain, we are able to see them interact a lot more and play around with the situations to get a better feel on how they act. Not to diminish Viggo at all as he’s definitely awesome, but I do think sometimes there’s different metrics for movie and tv/series villains in terms of how we see them. 😋
Viggo is also the only villain Hiccup could never beat, the closest the riders ever came to beating him is when he fell into the volcano and even that didn't kill him.
One that is incredibly underrated is Kai from Kung Fu Panda 3. No one really thinks of him or includes him as a great villain even if he is one to the entire DreamWorks fandom. What I love about Kai is that he is very thematically connected. Oogway has a successor but in order to find out if Po is the successor, Po needs to reach that stage. Kai is the reason Oogway couldn't find peace and its poetic that Po is the one to stop him. It also helps that he is also a very good character. Everything is thought out. How do you elevate your villain from the last two? Think about it, Tai Lung was a warrior who primarily used his brute strength and speed. Shen was a mastermind who invented a cannon and committed a full on genocide against pandas. Kai is both a warrior and a mastermind. For one, he was a general, being able to fight and outclass an opponent in combat. But he is also a magician, he created the ability to steal chi for himself knowing that he isn't the most powerful and cannot always protect Oogway with his current state. He used chi to create zombies that do his bidding. He lured masters to him to collect their chi but also find out who sent them and analyse their weaknesses by absorbing their chi, gaining the knowledge and using it against the very people who sent them. Not to mention his connection to Oogway. He has a soft side too. He cared enough for Oogway to literally give up his morals and use his genius level intelligence to craft a way to absorb chi. He felt betrayed by the one person that he cared so much about. He fought Oogway to prove himself and hung him close to his heart so Oogway can't leave him again, calling him brother and a subtle detail is his death, he grabs for Oogway's amulet when he is overloaded. The first fight with Oogway 500 years prior was a foreshadowing of this, Oogway leaving him due to his actions and perseverance for the wrong reasons.
And that is why Dreamworks villains or antagonists are considered better. Each one is more powerful in some way than the protagonist, and the protagonists have to overcome whatever perceived weakness they have in order to win. Even Lord Farquad has an entire army and even if he had to lose more men than necessary could defeat Shrek if he so chose. Tai Lung is stronger and faster than Po, so Po has to use his being fat and absorbing the strikes to his advantage, and he payed attention to the finger hold, which he also figured out was the only way to take Kai back to the spirit realm by sacrificing himself in order to keep his friends and family safe.
Animated villains as a whole hit different from. Only if you make them unique and story worthy. Cause every villain needs a motive (unless you're Jack Horner) and reason to be in a movie. I think this is what most modern movies are missing.
@@frddyyfezbeer2368 A motive is simply wanting something. It's not some grand philosophical thing, it's just "I want (x)". Many people fail to realize this.
One of my favourite things about Shen's death is his expression. When most villains are about to die, they are shocked, panicking, scared. When Shen saw the mast falling on him, he didn't flinch or brace himself. He just closed his eyes and accepted his fate.
Easy answer: they are villains. Not some misunderstood individual, that can be redeemed at the end. And even the ones that have layers to them, such as Goldilocks and the Three Bears and Lord Shen are still villains.
Goldilocks and the three bears and Lord Shen shouldn't be put in the same level as evil, Goldilock and her family are more of anti villains than straight up villains, meanwhile Shen is a maniac
@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375Only reason Goldilocks and the 3 Bears are villains in that situation is because they were after the wishing star like Puss and Kitty. It was not personal to them Puss's friends were just an obstacle.
Honestly, I wouldn’t call Goldilocks and the three bears villains. They weren’t evil or anything like that. They were enemies to Puss and Kitty because of the map
I think what makes Dreamworks villains brilliant is that they follow the steps of having reasons that are sympathetic to everyone else, but their methods are extreme enough that we know they're villains. Dreamworks actually shows us how redeeming villains isn't always a great way to end in the story. Add the fact that the stakes were high and they were an actual threat to the heroes, and it's simply a chef's kiss.
I always liked Tai-lung. I can understand his frustration, He's like us most asian kids. Where we work so hard to fulfill what our parents dreamt for us, so when we fail we have nothing else to rely on cause we "wasted" our whole life fulfilling our parents dream. That's why no matter how many time I watched the kung fu panda movie I couldn't hate Tai-lang.
Yeah, it sucks if you work your whole life for something and it ends up all going to waste. I'm just gonna say it, Tai Lung would have been fine for the Dragon Warrior. Yeah, he was arrogant at times, but he had good reason to be. The guy's skill level was off the charts. And that talent all went to waste, too, because of some turtle dude calling him evil. Everything he worked for his whole life was destroyed, and that really, really stings.
@@kaputt_jay3873 the turtle dude only said he had darkness in his heart, Shifu turning his back after that turned him towards the path of evil. Turtle dude never called him evil smh
@@kaputt_jay3873 I was only defending Oogway tbh, but honestly him doing so also proved why he couldn't be the dragon warrior. Kind of a self fulfilling property after he seen the scroll for himself it only filled him with confusion whilst comparing that to what Po did is all the more proof Po was the one who was destined for it he was the only one who could understand, well with some help of goose dad.
I don’t like what he did, yet I find it hard to hate him. Lord Shen, in comparison, I was disgusted by and frankly feared him. They’re both so well done in different ways.
Tighten was the perfect representation for Incels. Ramses, the mighty ruler of Egypt. Death, the villain who was angry at Puss for wasting his life. Lord Farquad, the man with an intense Napoleon Complex and desperately wanted to be King. I could go on.
@@leebulger7112not sure what that has to do with the video or this comment, but it is interesting. Also, someone’s hight is such a strange thing to spread propaganda about, who ever came up with that is either and idiot or a comedian
Real quick point out, a villain has to be evil to be a villain, but death is not evil, he's just doing his job, this is known as an antagonist, the difference, a villain is straight up evil, ruthless, unforgiving, or just an irredeemable monster, an antagonist is a hindrance in the protags story, they can be a threat, but if they aren't evil but instead doing it for the better of the cast, or because they have no other choice, they're just a antagonist
I've heard a lot of people argue that death was overstepping at that point though; he's not allowed to end lives before their time, he ends them when needed Either way, he's great
@@titanium4082 Death overstepping would imply that he is a servant of death and not death itself, Death is a force of nature and as such he creates the rules. At least that's my opinion on it, but I see both sides of it
Death wasn't just doing his job with puss in boots. He had a personal grudge against puss, and he sadistically chased puss instead of just killing him.
I'd say the reason Dreamworks villains work on the whole is that they seek to advance the classical Disney Villain, not subvert it. They introduce additional angles to the characters, but those angles don't undermine the evil in the story that they are, and that's essential. Disney, meanwhile, is afraid to make genuinely evil characters anymore because they're being led by milquetoast sensibilities, informed by personal politics rather than creative expression. They're afraid to portray evil because evil is offensive, to which I say "no shit". Dreamworks understands why the villain is essential, and more importantly isn't just some issue strawman. Hell, Big Jack Horner is essentially the classical Disney Villain we never got, reintroduced in an age of nuance, and it's no surprise why audiences loved him for being terrible. A villain who owns it possesses incredible charisma and screen power.
I've heard that some people thought of Jack Horner as being representative of modern disney, wants all the magic for themselves, puffed up, precocious and full of themselves, steps on the little guy to get what they want(with jack, and sometimes Disney, quite literally doing so), plus it certainly doesn't help that Jack literally stuffed Mickey's magic hat, the staff from Onward, poision apples and a whole bunch of other disney shit into Mary Poppin's nanny bag while her umbrella floated away with one of Jack's henchmen
@@howiehiew when the execs in charge demand that everyone follow the same set of dillusional politics, everyone ends up "creatively" thinking of story ideas with the exact same hive mind Diversity of politics, under your statement, leads to diversity of ideas, stagnation of politics due to everyone "adopting" the same "correct" set of views and political ideas, leads to stagnation of ideas, like with how a good number of Disney's films over the past couple of years have had the villain as _generational trauma_ 🙄
@@samcochran8203 that’s a cool theory, do you have any proof? Because from my perspective the recent Disney films are clearly based on the film makers personal experience. Turning red was about a young teenage Chinese Canadian girl who grew up in the early 2000’s and the director was a Chinese Canadian girl who grew up in the early 2000’s. Elemental was about a seconds generation immigrant and the director is also a second generation immigrant. But sure, maybe all of the creative decisions were made by the execs and not the film makers themselves, whereas dreamworks is total creative freedom despite the fact that they are also owned by a large corporation that only cares about profits.
@@howiehiew Knowing the execs who greenlight those movies, and that they specifically greenlight those movies, it says something about the kind of stories they want to have get made, and the stories they want to be made are awfully similar, too similar some would say As for proof, you don't need proof for a concept when almost anyone can come to the exact same conclusion about said concept given they know the logic surrounding the real things they solidly know
When it comes to Shen he actually gets what he really wants at the end. He didnt want the prophecy to be true meaning he didnt want to die by the hand of a black and white warrior and if you look at the moment he does die, he doesnt die by po’s hand. He dies by his own hand chosing not to move out of the way breaking the prophecy as it was his own blindness of power what got him to that point so finds peace in it even for a moment.
What I like the most about DreamWorks villains as opposed to Disney villains is even if their villains are sympathetic and understandable, they don't pretend they're still good.
I love actually menacing antagonists, even in animated media, they deserve real threats to tell proper stories. The hero can still be op but if there is a chance the enemy could win it's great!
I was hoping to see Eris from Legend Of The Seven Sea and Rumpelstiltskin from Sherk 4. They, alongside the fairy godmother and Ramses, are one of the best villains dreamwork ever had. Eris is a great example of being evil just for the sake of it. You don't need any backstory with her since her name and title alone do the trick. She very entertaining (despite having almost no screentime), manipulative, smart and most importantly challenge the heroes in a unique way. The only reason she lost was because of the well made character development Sinbad had. If it wasn't for that, her plan would have work. As for Rumpelstiltskin, he basically a the fairy godmother 2.0, but more chaotic. He still make for a great antagonist as he essentially almost killed Sherk.
Creating a villain to teach kids that they shouldn't fear "death" and accept that it's just part of life in an era where everyone is a victim and everyone has an excuse I think is not only a great lesson, but something we need more of in society right.
Disney villains are great too, when we speak of the 90s early 2000s. Scar, dude from Notre Dame(excuse my shitty memory). But that's because you can believe those are people in their own right. They got a motivation, power to abuse, and their actions are reasonable in the villain sense. Modern Disney villains lack consistency. Mainly because they want to force this twist villain thing or version B) they are not even villains just misunderstood uwu
His name is Claude Frollo. What makes Frollo scarier than Scar in a way is that Frollo has been successful as a judge for 20 plus years while Scar didn't know what to do with his power once he got it but even that is the writers showing that Scar was immature the whole time.
In my opinion, villains like Frollo, Gaston and Lady Tramaine are the most terrifying of all because they feel too real. Everyone knows at least one person exactly like them in real life. . Edit: the same goes for Tighten.
My favorites are the ones that are twisted evil versions of a heroic Disney character, because everyone knows that DreamWorks loves to give Disney the finger.
The most underrated DreamWorks villain is DEFINITELY Morgana from Tales of Arcadia. Her reasons are arguably correct, magic folk ARE oppressed and killed in the streets, her people are being hunted by her own brother. Her hatred is justifiable, she is incredibly menacing and powerful but also deeply sympathetic and tragic. Honestly the wealth of morally complex characters in that trilogy is incredible. I mean people are STILL unable to conclude whether Merlin is a manipulative arrogant jerk or a tragic misguided man who loves his son deeply. THATS good writing.
in my opinion, drako was such a great villan because he presents to us the other existent path, as hiccup took the path of accepting the losses that happened and went on to forgive the dragons and understand them using dragons to defend themselves, drako did the opposite using his scars as fuel to subjugate the dragons and use them to control
Hal works for many reasons because of how relatable he is. his downward spiral to become a villain was because of how hard he worked for Roxanne's love, only for it to turn out how she doesn't love him in return. I've been down this road before myself. there was an artist I really admired and so I worked hard to improve my craft and do better with my skills, but no matter what I made, he was never impressed. he preferred other people over me. you feel angry, that all you did was a huge waste of time. did you do something wrong with your work? why bother working hard towards anything anymore? do you just lack that special spark that other people have? This is something very similar to what happened to the son of a man who works are Studio Ghibli. he wanted to impress his father by making his own animated movie. his father walked out of the screening, saying he didn't like the film. the son felt very crushed. This is why Hal is relatable and it becomes clear as to how he became a villain. people underestimate how hard rejection can hit you. some take rejection harder than others. "Don't worry, you'll bounce back" not everyone does. I can name many infamous people in history who took their anger out on other people after a hard rejection. not trying to make excuses for them because you can't always be accepted, but you should never underestimate what rejection can do to a person. once you've gone through this experience yourself, you'll see why Hal turned villainous.
While he can be relatable to a certain degree, once you look deeper into his character you can see that he was never a good person. Even at the beginning, before he got his powers, there were plenty of subtle hints of his true nature like his clingy one-sided obsessive love with Roxanne but those were played off as laughs, and because he was so dumb and cowardly he was harmless. But once he got powers we saw his true twist nature. At the end of the day was and still was a "nice" guy, the guy that wants something in return when he is "nice" to someone, only to be angry and aggressive once he doesn't get what he wants.
@@damonlam9145 Or to be concise, Hal is an incel who doesn't take no for an answer, wants a woman so obsessively that doesn't even want him back, has a mindset that having wealth or powers makes him a good guy or a potential partner. Remember when Hal was dragging Roxanne out of her apartment without her consent and often drops her just to "save her life" or be "romantic"?
Huh as someone who’s aromantic and never really been interested like that, it’s really interesting to hear the sympathetic side of that. Thanks for the unique perspective bud
You’re missing an important detail to that Ghibli example, the father in question wasn’t just some guy but Hayao Miyazaki. The film his son made was From Earthsea and the two reconciled after Hayao apologized with the movie Ponyo
I don't know DreamWorks villains are just built different and are on a whole other level than Disney villains that makes them superior imo. Disney villains are very one dimensional and are only written that way in favor of elevating the protagonist to give them an easy obstacle to over come. DreamWorks villains are far more complex that not only challenge the hero in physical terms but their morals and ideology. And it also helps that DreamWorks has villains ranging from mid to god like where mid consists of villains written on the same level of the average Disney villain and god like is Rameses, Shen, Titan, Farquad, Death, Tai Lung, Fairy Godmother, etc. Rameses being the absolute best.
I think one of the things that creates good Villains overall is staying true to their character. A lot of characters in media, specially villains, take some actions that make no sense for their character just because it works for the plot, making them feel unnatural. Of course, staying in character is important for every character, but I think it is even more important for the villain, since they're usually the ones moving the story and motivating the hero to do something about them to begin with. Whenever a character takes a path that screams "That's exactly what he would do" no matter the consequences for the plot, that's when they feel real and believeable, alive. And I think that makes the best villains.
Aldone, have you ever heard or watched a 2006 Disney movie called "The Wild"? Was thinking about it recently and how it's so bad it was completely forgotten by everyone
A good villain in itself isn't just one that is always mustache-twirling and maniacal. There overall purpose is to make the character question themselves and finally push forward and overcome the odds they thought were impossible. By having a good villain, it portrays that even insurmountable obstacles can be broken through
Please tell me you're going to go over Rise of the Gaurdians. Its such a good and underrated movie. With an absolutly amazing villian! His character actually is more dangerous if you count the books as a prequel where nightlight was Jack Frost's ancestor. In that light pitch isn't just a villian but how he became the very thing he was sworn to fight against. His tragic roots and military mind, understanding of empathy makes him a master manipulator and effectively on Par with Death the Wolf.
one of the absolute best villains I've ever seen was Ramses because of how well he's written. see I'm a believer so this movie being as faithful to the Biblical story of Moses as it is, but this is such a phenomenal movie that everyone of all/no faiths can love. Ramses being introduced as the loving older brother to Moses, the man who loved Moses so much that he chased him down and tried relentlessly to fix the fact that Moses had killed someone just so that he can keep him around makes it all the more painful when he comes to resent and despise Moses to the point where he was willing to kill him himself. He went from a loving brother to a prideful mad man hellbent on getting revenge on the very brother he had loved so dear. despite everything that happens in the movie, I have never been able to bring myself to hate Ramses, even after he threatened to kill every last Hebrew just to spite Moses
The one thing that I don't see people covering when it comes to Death in Puss in Boots is that he's not evil, he's just doing his job. He takes pleasure in hunting Puss because Puss having nine lives goes against the natural order, but also because of Puss's own arrogance and laughing in Death's face, it's more of a catharsis to Death to take that last life to prove his point that Death is inevitable and there is nothing that will stop it. You can even make that argument that Death is not there to take Puss, but to scare him straight and put him on the right path to value his life and the people in it as Puss is a very changed character by the end of the movie, because he doesn't use the wish to get his other 8 lives back.
There is never a chosen one syndrome of story telling and how realistic and emotional these movies are you feel as though there is true weight to every action and it feels as though if they mess up one too many times they might actually lose. I ruin myself unconsciously of movies because I always know it someway the main character will succeed but even though its true for anything with dreamworld it gives you that feeling anything can and will happen.
Awesome video!!! Also I subbed :) I also believe Kung Fu Oamda Villians fall under 3 different categories, which are Melevelant, Somewhat Belevelant, and Neutral, Somewhat Belevelant Villians have a sympathetic Backstory, try to good on their journey but the bad overtakes them, and have a chance to redeem themselves, Neutral Villians are the type to be your friend before your enemy and can't be redeemed , and Melevelant Villians are to the start bad, can't be redeemed, and will disrespect the main character by using their weakness on them to gain the upper hand, so Tai Lung for me falls under Somewhat Belevelant, Kai falls under Neutral, and Lord Shen falls under Melevelant
7:09 I remember recently in a month I watched Bullet Train, the Tetris Movie and the Super Mario Bros. Movie, and listened to so many covers of Holding out for a Hero and realized, that the cover from Shrek 2 is the best, maybe even better than the original song, and not only that, Dreamworks with Harry Gregson-Williams found a way to break the licensed song curse by making the song not only a cover with proper orchestrated parts that actually go well with the action on-screen but also something completely digetic, you know this is the Fairy Godmother who's singing alongside the live band in the castle, just genius.
Ffs, death is an antagonist, not a villain. He's just doing his job and function, and is annoyed with Puss not appreciating the value of life. The villain of PIB2 is Jack horner.
I think the “unpredictability” of each character is what really makes them pop from the rest. They’re NOT predictable like other villainous characters (ahem Disney)-you have no idea if they’re going to act on emotion or not. ESPECIALLY if it helps the situation or leads to their downfall-they’re usually acting on their impulses. Like no matter the strength/wits of each character-their downfall is always related to their emotional baggage they refused to heal from. Which in return, makes them completely unhinged to a certain extent towards the end. They’re not only unpredictable to the audience-but to themselves AND the main character 👀
I actually have 7 most favorite villains : 7- Captain DuBois from Madagascar 3: Europe's most wanted 6- Goldielocks from Puss in Boots 2: the last wish 5- the Red Death from How to train your dragon 4- Tai Lung from Kung Fu Panda 3- Big Jack Horner from Puss in Boots 2: the last wish 2- Lord Shen from Kung Fu panda 1- Death from Puss in Boots 2: the last wish
On a serious villain: Pitch from Guardians of the Galaxy. Creepy, manipulative, cool power, and those glowing gold eyes are terrifying to look at Less serious note: Dave the Octopus from Penguins of Madagascar. No big back story, no big issues. Just a jealous octopus who hates cute penguins and has just that one focus.
I love that everyone's doing their own version of their favorite villain and I'm okay with it do how much you want to do it doesn't even need to be dreamworks
I haven't watched HTTYD, so I won't have any of their villains on my list (although Drago and Grimmel seem pretty awesome from the few clips I've seen). 4. Jack Horner (He's not complex at all, he's just EVIL - and I love it. He's so entertaining; nothing he says or does makes me sympathize with him, not the in the slightest, but he made me laugh out loud so many times. Definitely one of the most enjoyable villains I've had the pleasure of watching.) 3. Death (He's not even a villain, rather an unfortunate circumstance we all have to face sometime or another. His mysterious aura and his whole THEME is so freaking badass. Like, the guy fights with sickles, how can you NOT love that?) 2. Tai Lung (One of the most OP villains, period. He doesn't need gadgets or tech to kick butt, just his own skill and aggression. And he has a lot of those things. He's insane, but he still has emotions, and I'm riveted whenever they show through, because they're so intense.) 1. Lord Shen (I don't know how Dreamworks managed to make this guy broken AND evil at the same time, but they did it. Honestly, he has it all: a cool theme, skill, a surprisingly good (albeit dark) sense of humour, a badass character, the intimidation factor, and a bit of angst. He's top-tier for me, one of the best of all time.)
Nice to hear someone say movies can be good without villains. I keep hearing people slam Brave and think "Why do need someone to be a villain?" I think they need things that direct them away from their own actions with a face. It's why Sonic fans were mad at Elise for being human.
Dear aldone I want to say thank you for making these videos I am learning how to be a story maker and thanks to your videos my stories have gotten better
What makes Dreamworks so amazing is the versatility of their villains. They can pull of cartoon characters such as Lord Farquad, they can give these cartoony characters more depth like Titan, they can make absolutely terrifying villains like Death and the Kung Fu Panda villains, or they can make villains like Ramsese. Each one works, each one is a villain that would never fit in another movie, a villain that MAKES the movie as much as the main character, and that's what makes them so satisfying.
Haven't watched the video yet, but here's my view.. All of the best villains are essential to their respective film. They either drive the events of the story or directly tie into the primary themes of the film or the character arc of the protagonist. Golden era Disney films understood that (Frollo, Scar, even Yzma), but they really haven't done so in a while. Even before they stopped doing villains altogether, the vast majority of their recent ones could either just be removed from the story altogether (The sheep from Zootopia, Hans) or could have easily just not turned out to be villains. (Calahan, that woman from Incredibles 2). Meanwhile, we only need to look at Shen or Death to see examples from Dreamworks that are the exact opposite in all respects. They're both driving forces of the plot and directly tie in to the themes and arcs. Also, even a lot of the best Disney film villains feel like they're being held back by the need to be "suitable for kids". (Exceptions being Hunchback, Lion King, Mulan) They have usually shied away from showing their villains show true menace. No matter what happens in their films.. we almost always know that nobody's going to get killed by them, so they just aren't as much of a direct threat as they can be. Compare that to some Dreamworks villains from recent memory (Tai Lung, Shen, Grimmel, Jack. Even Death in a different way, he was genuinely a scary antagonist who outright makes the hero bleed) Don't know if it was just me, but I knew that as a young child I loved films more when there was an element of threat. I was obviously a wuss with actual horror films and even non-horror films with gore (I watched the animated Beowulf when I was 10, Grendel kept me up at night lol) but I was never scared at onscreen death. My two favourite things to watch from pretty much the age of five were Jurassic Park and Doctor Who. Both of which are known to be enjoyed widely by both kids and adults, both also don't shy away from direct onscreen deaths. So Disney holding back the threat of their villains so as to "not scare the kids" doesn't make sense to me. Besides.. what's wrong with letting kids get scared anyway? Obviously don't show them things that will outright damage their innocence, like excessive gore, sex or nudity, but it's healthy imo to let a child watch something that leaves them scared for a night. Can help them get accostomed to fear early in a safe environment, so they're more prepared to manage it later and develop confidence. If they are used to potentially irrational fear at a young age, it can make them less likely to shy away from potentially awesome opportunities later, by stretching their comfort zone. Then, of course there's Disney's recent allergy toward outright villains. Don't get me wrong, some of the very best villains are complex in their character and motivation. However.. a deep antagonist can still be an outright villain. It's good to teach kids empathy and the ability to forgive where it's healthy to do so. But it's also important that kids realise that some people are just terrible. They might have complex motivaton and an unfortunate background, but some people in the world just aren't redeemable and aren't owed forgiveness. It's a hard truth that kids should learn early on, as it'll help them avoid/safely tackle bullying situations (which almost always lead to mental health problems in adulthood) and also have awareness that adults can't always be trusted. Disney films used to do that, Dreamworks still do. *EDIT:* Went hell off-topic there, basically just typed as I thought and wrote an incoherent novel lmao. ADHD go brrrrr
Oh yeah,I used to have a huge crush on Shen back in elementary school and 6th grade. My little 12yo girl smooth brain was a hardcore SIMP for him. And now I dance with performance swords and fans for a living,considering working with pyrotechnics as well. A movie can really change who you are. AAAAALLL SHITS AND GIGGLES ASIDE I loved how well made and detailed this video essay is. You just earned yourself a sub,I don't know why you don't have more subs,you deserve em.
Lord Shen was a spectacular villain. But the best moment for him is at the end. In writing that resonates with the audience, the hero and the villain should be trying to answer the same question, but the difference is that the hero answers it correctly and the villain answers it incorrectly. Usually the villain has already answered incorrectly before the story begins, but that isn't necessary, writers just do that to get the villain on board quickly. At the end of Kung Fu Panda 2 Po has been confronted with the question of "what do I do with the pains of the past." And the answer that he accepts from the soothsayer is "You cannot change where you come from, but you can decide who you will become." After defeating Shen's boats, Shen asks "how did you do it? I took everything from you." He cannot possibly understand how Po could overcome the pain that Shen specifically put into his past. Shen sees them as the same thing, but believes he should be stronger for having chosen to numb his pain by inflicting it on others. Po tries to explain it as best he can, and offers Shen the choice to become what he wants to be. Shen chooses then and there, at the crossroads, that he would rather burn it all to the ground than rise above his pain. And when his actions moments later lead to a cannon collapsing on him, you can see him accept that this is the outcome of his choice as if he knew all along, deep down, that his path would lead to his own destruction. We get to see the villain, stripped of all his bravado and pomp (which he has used to hide his pain through the entire movie), answer the question, receive the consequence of it, and accept it because he knew, he always knew, but he chose the easier path anyway.
I think the best HTTYD villain is actually Stoic. He's not really a villain but a sympathetic antagonist and in my eyes the perfect driving force for such a movie
The last wish gave us 3 villain tropes in the same film, and they not only worked, but were actual memorable characters! I was so goddamn impressed watching that movie on the couch with my daughter.
I really love the Dreamworks villains because there's always a solid reason for them being villains. Usually they show off the other side of the coin to the main hero, the path not taken. You understand their reasons, even if you, hopefully, don't agree with their methods. That being said, Encanto, which has no villain at all, is my favorite movie of all times. There's definitely room for all sorts of stories and Dreamworks has just mastered the villain archetype so well.
The most important art of Lord Shen's prophecy is that he very much had the option to course correct. "**IF** he continues down this path, he will be defeated by a warrior of black and white" He had every choice to alter course and walk a new path, but his lust for power and control was too strong. He was left blinded by himself, cementing his own fate
What’s also important to remember with Tai Lung is that he has no sense of self. He was given away by his parents as a baby, and taken in by Shifu. Because he was already strong and seemingly gifted in martial arts as a toddler, Shifu trained him to be the dragon warrior. And that’s all he did- was train and train and train. He didn’t go out and have fun, he didn’t have hobbies, he didn’t have friends- all he did was train. So the whole ‘looking at the dragon scroll and seeing yourself, and realizing that who you are and loving yourself and who you are is what makes you special/gives you power’ wouldn’t have worked him. He doesn’t know what he likes and doesn’t like. He doesn’t have hobbies or interests. He doesn’t know who he is, and doesn’t love himself because he just sees himself a warrior meant only to become the dragon warrior and protect
Food/Cooking and artistry in movies has one thing in common. No matter how great it is if you keep using the same formula or recipe over and over again your audience and customers will eventually lose interest. Or in Disney's case just adding cheap spices called WOKE and expecting it to carry the whole thing while creating a revamped but inferior copy of said product. That's why DreamWorks had already left Disney in the dust, they are not afraid to experiment on new concepts and diversify their works every now and then. Thus the success of Puss In Boots the last wish and Kung Fu Panda.
Tighten has one of the best lines of dialogue of any villain in the history of Dreamworks: "You don't know me. You never took the time to know me. This is the first time we've hung out socially, and it's when I'm about to destroy the city!" Normies see him as the stereotypical "incel" but the movie clearly is smarter than that.
Lord Shen is my favorite DreamWorks villain. I love how his story is like the story of Frieza from Dragon Ball Z. Both villains brought about their own defeats by trying to eradicate the those prophesied to defeat them. Death and Jack Horner are amazing villains as well. Tbh, I like all the villains on this list. I wish Disney still had villains like this.
Dreamworks knows how to make villains relatable. Thats why they are great. Even with the most shallow reasons, they make their villains how you want your cooking, with depth and flavour even if its just and egg omelette. One of my faves really is Hal from megamind. It still escapes me how its not a pop icon at his point when its a masterpiece. It challenges your typical villain hero relationhip all while enclosed in great acting, script and animation. Also, hal is honestly the scariest villain out there. Because he is realistic (not the power upgrade part of c) in a way that a shallow entitled person who thinks theyre the good guys are honestly the people we have to look out for. Hal isnt a villain because he has reasons; he becuase his actions and intentions are villainy. He is the shallow, entitled good guy but really he is just a creep that we didnt know the full potential of yet. And i know we know a lot of those people in real life. People who gives off the wrong vibe but we just dont know why yet; people who think theyre doing u good but they just come off as unconfortable.
my favourite feature of dreemwork movies is that they are not afraid of killing not only their villains or treating them to their deserved fate but also just killing off characters.
Why does everyone hold Grimmil so high? I always found him pretty forgettable and boring. Like there are better villains. Drago was a way better villain.
I love your videos man, but just wanted to let you know for the sake of clarity, you have a pretty bad problem with run-on sentences loLL I feel like you should try summarizing your scripts as well as giving your audience some time to breathe because sometimes I just lose you in the middle of it all
