Why I Became Catholic Instead of Orthodox w/ Dr. Scott Hahn 

Hugs from an Orthodox for all my Catholic brothers and sisters! :)

I am Catholic and I have lots of respect for my brothers and sisters in the Orthodox Church.

I was raised and only baptized Catholic, later got lost in the world like most people do, then coming back to the Church I found myself searching for a more reverent liturgy so I was in between an Orthodox Church and an SSPX Church, the reason I didn't become orthodox was quite simple, all the Orthodox priests, deacons and laity spoke to me was how is it that Rome is wrong, how Rome do things incorrectly, how is it that Rome's theology is wrong ( they call our Church "Rome", at least here in Chile), and then when I went to the SSPX Church all they spoke to me about was Jesus, his Holy Mother, The Church, how to live as a catholic in this world... Basically one Church told me how is it that the other is wrong and the other Church taught me about God and how to live as a Christian. I had my first Holy Communion, Confirmation and Got Married in the Catholic Church within a year from that experience.

Orthodoxy is not “ethnic” and there are no “denominations.” What there are, are different Archdioceses that, at least outside of America, operate in different languages for different cultures. Greek, Serbian, and Antiochian Orthodox Churches are not “different Churches” and a member of one may commune at any of the others because they are all part of the same united Body of Christ.

God bless my orthodox brothers, from a catholic. We are more alike than different

can someone explain to him that the Orthodox churches are called Greek or Russian because they are located on the territory of Russia and Greece (roughly speaking, this is an administrative division ), not because it is a church for Russians or Greeks. For example the Russian Orthodox Church is native for two hundred nationalities(sorry for my bad english)

I have deep respect for both traditions and hope and pray for more unity between these beautiful ancient churches.

Both churchs are real. They are on different traditions and liturgy, but are real churchs of God.

Please have him back for this conversation. I can't wait! God bless and keep up the hard work!

Ok, I too support a full length discussion on Orthodoxy and the Catholicism between you too. Most of us need that in our lives. Please and thank you. Thanks Matt for setting this up!!

To be fair, a lot of the early churches were regional churches, in other words; ethnic. (by in large)

The Eastern Orthodox churches have the apostolic successions and are also very much closely aligned in theology and practice of Sacraments with each other and with the Latin Church, variation in cultural presentations have always been part of the Church, including variations in local traditions; this happens in the Roman Catholic Church as well to a certain degree, especially in contrast with the Eastern Catholic rites. I think the problem is just the Apostolic authority, which rightfully belongs to the successor of St. Peter, the Bishop of Rome, which the Orthodox churches are not in full communion with; and also because the schism has occurred for a very long time, the "lost communion" time gap is huge and there are quite a number of things to be "synchronized" before full communion between Rome and Eastern Orthodox churches can be re-established. I think the division is more political and cultural than it is in matters of faith and life of the Church. Just my own thoughts on the matter.

Please bring back this discussion. It is most crucial as a convert to Catholicism from Armenian Orthodox (American born). I can agree most with Dr. Hahn and especially on the issue of ethnicity. Again, bring him back because there are some issues among Orthodox pointing fingers towards the church of Rome or us saying they fell off from the true Orthodoxy. I know that's not true.

PLEASE do the episode you spoke of! I love seeing the variety of Churches in full communion with Rome and the richness that results, but it would be very interesting to see an educated discussion on the proper boundries.

I would not be Orthodox unless I was born into the nationality of one of the original Orthodox Churches. If you are, and that is your family and culture, God bless you. You are our brothers and hopefully we will all be one again soon.

Just to remember - only Eastern texts that couldn’t be clearer in the context: *John Cassian, Monk (c. 430)* _“That great man, the disciple of disciples, that master among masters, _*_who wielding the government of the Roman Church possessed the principle authority in faith and in priesthood. Tell us, therefore, we beg of you, Peter, prince of Apostles, tell us how the Churches must believe in God_*_ ”_ (Cassian, Contra Nestorium, III, 12, CSEL, vol. 17, p. 276) ___________________ *St. Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem (c. 638)* (talking about Peter in the See of Rome and Mark in the See of Alexandria) _“Teaching us all orthodoxy and destroying all heresy and driving it away from the God-protected halls of our holy Catholic Church. And together with these inspired syllables and characters, _*_I accept all his (the pope's) letters and teachings as proceeding from the mouth of Peter the Coryphaeus, and I kiss them and salute them and embrace them with all my soul_*_ ... I recognize the latter as definitions of Peter and the former as those of Mark, and besides, all the heaven-taught teachings of all the chosen mystagogues of our Catholic Church”_ (Sophronius, Mansi, xi. 461) _“ _*_Transverse quickly all the world from one end to the other until you come to the Apostolic See (Rome), where are the foundations of the orthodox doctrine_*_ . Make clearly known to the most holy personages of that throne the questions agitated among us. Cease not to pray and to beg them until their apostolic and Divine wisdom shall have pronounced the victorious judgement and destroyed from the foundation ...the new heresy”_ . (Sophronius, [quoted by Bishop Stephen of Dora to Pope Martin I at the Lateran Council], Mansi, 893) ___________________ *Stephen, Bishop of Dora in Palestine (645)* _”And for this cause, sometimes we ask for water to our head and to our eyes a fountain of tears, sometimes the wings of a dove, _*_according to holy David, that we might fly away and announce these things to the Chair (the Chair of Peter at Rome) which rules and presides over all, I mean to yours, the head and highest, for the healing of the whole wound. For this it has been accustomed to do from old and from the beginning with power by its canonical or apostolic authority, because the truly great Peter, head of the Apostles, was clearly thought worthy not only to be trusted with the keys of heaven, alone apart from the rest, to open it worthily to believers, or to close it justly to those who disbelieve the Gospel of grace, but because he was also commissioned to feed the sheep of the whole Catholic Church_*_ ; for 'Peter,' saith He, 'lovest thou Me? Feed My sheep.' And again, because he had in a manner peculiar and special, a faith in the Lord stronger than all and unchangeable, to be converted and to confirm his fellows and spiritual brethren when tossed about, as having been adorned by God Himself incarnate for us with power and sacerdotal authority .....And Sophronius of blessed memory, who was Patriarch of the holy city of Christ our God, and under whom I was bishop, conferring not with flesh and blood, but caring only for the things of Christ with respect to your Holiness, hastened to send my nothingness without delay about this matter alone to this Apostolic see, where are the foundations of holy doctrine”_ . ___________________ *Macedonius, Patriarch of Constantinople* (466-516) _“Macedonius declared, when desired by the Emperor Anastasius to condemn the Council of Chalcedon, that _*_such a step without an Ecumenical Synod presided over by the Pope of Rome is impossible”_* (Macedonius, Patr. Graec. 108: 360a (Theophan. Chronogr. pp. 234-346 seq.) ___________________ *John VI, Patriarch of Constantinople (715)* _“The Pope of Rome, _*_the head of the Christian priesthood_*_ , whom in Peter, the Lord commanded to confirm his brethren”_ . (John VI, Epist. ad Constantin. Pap. ad. Combefis, Auctuar. Bibl. P.P. Graec.tom. ii. p. 211, seq.) ___________________ *St. Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople (758-828)* _“Without whom _*_(the Romans presiding in the seventh Council) a doctrine brought forward in the Church could not, even though confirmed by canonical decrees and by ecclesiastical usage, ever obtain full approval_*_ or currency. For it is they (the Popes of Rome) who have had assigned to them the rule in sacred things, and who have received into their hands the dignity of _*_headship among the Apostles”_* (Nicephorus, Niceph. Cpl. pro. s. imag. c 25 [Mai N. Bibl. pp. ii. 30]). ___________________ *St. Athanasius (362)* _“Rome is called the _*_Apostolic throne”_* . (Athanasius, Hist. Arian, ad Monach. n. 35) _The Chief, Peter_ (Athan, In Ps. xv. 8, tom. iii. p. 106, Migne) ___________________ *St. Cyril of Alexandria (c. 424)* _”They (the Apostles) strove to _*_learn through one, that preeminent one, Peter”_* . (Cyril, Ib. 1. ix. p. 736). ___________________ *Eulogius of Alexandria (581)* (Born in Syria, he became the abbot of the Mother of God monastery at Antioch. In 579, he was made Patriarch of Alexandria; and became an associate of St. Gregory the Great while visiting Constantinople. Much of their subsequent correspondence is still extant. _“Neither to John, _*_nor to any other of the disciples, did our Savior say, 'I will give to thee the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven,' but only to Peter”_* . (Eulogius, Lib. ii. Cont. Novatian. ap. Photium, Biblioth, cod. 280) ___________________ *Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrus in Syria (450)* A native of Antioch, Theodoret ruled under the Antiochean Patriarch _“I therefore beseech your holiness to persuade _*_the most holy and blessed bishop (Pope Leo the Great) to use his Apostolic power, and to order me to hasten to your Council. For that most holy throne (Rome) has the sovereignty over the churches throughout the universe on many grounds”_* . (Theodoret, Tom. iv. Epist. cxvi. Renato, p. 1197). _”If Paul, the herald of the truth, the trumpet of the Holy Spirit, hastened to the great Peter, to convey from him the solution to those in Antioch, who were at issue about living under the law, _*_how much more do we, poor and humble, run to the Apostolic Throne (Rome) to receive from you (Pope Leo the Great) healing for wounds of the Churches_*_ . For it pertains to you to have primacy in all things; for your throne is adorned with many prerogatives”_ . (Theodoret Ibid, Epistle Leoni) ___________________ *St. Epiphanius, Archbishop of Salamis (385)* _“Holy men are therefore called the temple of God, because the Holy Spirit dwells in them; as that Chief of the Apostles testifies, he that was found to be blessed by the Lord, because the Father had revealed unto him. To him then did the Father reveal His true Son; _*_and the same (Peter) furthermore reveals the Holy Spirit. This was befitting in the First of the Apostles, that firm Rock upon which the Church of God is built, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The gates of hell are heretics and heresiarchs. For in every way was the faith confirmed in him who received the keys of heaven_*_ ; who looses on earth and binds in heaven. For in him are found all subtle questions of faith. He was aided by the Father so as to be (or lay) the Foundation of the security (firmness) of the faith. He (Peter) heard from the same God, 'feed my lambs'; to him He entrusted the flock; he leads the way admirably in the power of his own Master”_ . (Epiphanius, T. ii. in Anchor). ___________________ *Emperor Justinian (520-533)* (Writing to the Pope: just check that he himself was the creator of the not-theological concept of “Pentarchy”): _“Yielding honor to the Apostolic See and to Your Holiness, and honoring your Holiness, _*_as one ought to honor a father, we have hastened to subject all the priests of the whole Eastern district, and to unite them to the See of your Holiness, for we do not allow of any point, however manifest and indisputable it be, which relates to the state of the Churches, not being brought to the cognizance of your Holiness, since you are the Head of all the holy Churches_*_ ”_ . (Justinian Epist. ad. Pap. Joan. ii. Cod. Justin. lib. I. tit. 1). _“Let your Apostleship show that you have _*_worthily succeeded to the Apostle Peter, since the Lord will work through you, as Surpreme Pastor_*_ , the salvation of all”_ . (Coll. Avell. Ep. 196, July 9th, 520, Justinian to Pope Hormisdas). ________________________ Not quoting any of the Latin patrology here. Greetings.

I really enjoy these discussions. Thanks Matt, for the very enlightening conversations about Catholicism. God bless everyone!

I am a cradle Catholic and still am very much so, being born in Portugal and moving to the U.S. as a child, having moved around in the U.S., Europe and Asia. The speaker that Mr. Fradd is essentially saying saying that "Orthodoxy" is centered around ethnicities. Being Catholic I'd like to argue that we are also guilty of the same thing, in the U.S. there are Portuguese Catholic Churches which were very passive aggressive against non-Portuguese, as well as Irish, Italian, Polish Catholic Churches that I visited. This is not to say that al ALL Catholic Churches and their communities are like this, many were also very welcoming of me. I have also seen the same with Orthodox in which they are wary of outsiders, but there are also those who are multicultural. The Antiochian Orthodox Churches I have visited are actually the MOST multi-ethnic and multilingual communities I have visited. Even at an Romanian Orthodox Church near my home now in Japan, there are Irish, Brazilian, Canadian and Japanese instead of just Romanian. There is a Filipino Catholic Church near my home as well, and I have actually been told my the priest before the Mass "you will not understand what is going on, the Mass is in Tagalog, not English, so you don't need to be here". I responded "The Mass is the Mass, it is the same in any language unless you are hiding something". I took this in 2 ways, he is concerned that I wouldn't understand and thought I would be confused by the language, despite the signs clearing saying "Tagalog Mass at 1pm". OR He did not want me there as I looked like an outsider. I can only pray that he meant the first, which would make more sense. I think that people can point their finger at the Orthodox church and say "you are focused on your own ethnicity" simply because of the name of that body. i.e/ Russian or Greek Orthodox, etc. Actually, I think the reason why that many of these Orthodox and Catholic churches cling to their identity, especially in different countries like America, is because the original immigrant community wants to protect and strengthen their culture in their new home. For example, my Greek friend went to a "Greek School" to learn Greek after his Divine Liturgy at his Greek Orthodox Church. Does this mean he is a Greek nationalist or his Church is? He is a proud American, but he is able to identify with his heritage. The exact same happened with me as a child with "Portuguese school" after Catholic Mass and Catechism class. Finally, can we also not say the same about our Eastern Catholic brothers, the Melkite Greek Catholics, the Romanian Greek Catholics, Ruthenian Catholics, Russian Greek Catholics? Do they have no right to hold onto their ethnicity? Mr. Fradd if I am not mistaken, attends a Ruthenian Catholic parish (According to another video of his), but he may (or may have) Central/Eastern European heritage. In conclusion, both Catholics and Orthodox Churches have communities that still hold very close bonds with their communities' ethnic homelands, and BOTH Orthodox and Catholics should be very wary to avoid the heresy of Phyletism (my country/language is considered Divine by God), which is condemned in both the Catholic and Orthodox Church. In truth I still believe we are all united in Christ and I pray that one day in the end, we all realize that we are all just saying the same thing, and that we should not make such claims without examining ourselves first, which is the lesson from "John 8:7" The original ethnic community that brought their faith to a new home/ the New World(the Americas) is not necessarily the same community that will be there 100 years later, it might be, but it may also not be, depending on the circumstances. I think we can all take solace in "Revelation 7:9" where people of all nations will stand before the Throne of God. I think there was a protestant pastor on youtube that was talking about "This is not a white man's religion, nor a black man's religion, it's a WORLD religion, Christ was born in the part of the world that touches Europe, Africa and Asia." So I am happy to see many ethnicities in both the Catholic and Orthodox Church.

Please have a longer discussion about this. This is so important to those of us who are discerning between Orthodoxy and Catholicism! 🙏🙏

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

I’m an Orthodox Son of a Greek father, And the catholic son of a Scottish mother. I went to a Catholic school and I go to a catholic church every Sunday, almost every Sunday. I love them both I pray to lord Jesus. I go to confession in the Catholic Church, I’d get married in a Catholic Church and when I find my resting place it will be in the Catholic Church. I’ve said it publicly now it’s not taking sides it’s just what I am Joyce I have made. Amen

This video barely scratches the surface!!!!! I want to hear more of Dr Hahn’s thoughts, and also Matt’s, since he had attended a Byzantine church in the Atlanta area (where a friend of mine is pastor) for awhile!

I'm eagerly waiting for you guys to do another full hour breaking down Orthodoxy vs Catholicism according to Dr Hahn.

Please do several more hours on this whole topic ♥️

With respect, Dr. Hahn’s oversimplification of Orthodoxy as “ethnic” betrays his ignorance and thin experience. In America, a country of immigrants from multiple diasporas, Orthodoxy does have churches that are ethnically based (as do catholic parishes, synagogues, etc), but also the Orthodox Church in America and plenty of parishes that have less of an ethnic basis. He seems also to completely ignore the existence of African orthodoxy. There are Orthodox in Kenya, Ethiopia, Egypt, Libya…also the Malankara in India, etc etc etc. The whole point of the body of Christ is that it is global, and will always take on the culture it emerges in. Hash it out about the filioque, but don’t indulge a stereotype because “you know a guy.”

It seems ethnic because immigrants from Orthodox countries came to the United States and would form churches to serve their communities. Greeks and Russians also did not have the numbers to reinforce their presence early on(they already had come later than the Catholics), causing this ethnic, foreign feeling. The Churches reflected the people they mainly served, including having customs. Of course, there is a problem with how some stay in the Church more as an ethnic club than a Church, but that’s a problem with the individual, and not the Church. The jurisdiction needs to be fixed with one American church(The OCA has tried to do that) but it’s not a problem with Orthodoxy as much as a issue with Western immigration from Eastern Europeans. God bless.

i became an Orthodox Christian seven years ago...The biggest blessing in life. Ourr church is not ethnic even though Greek is in our title.We are growing by leaps and bounds..98% of our congregation is converts from Protestant and Roman Catholic denominations..

Scott Hahn was a huge part of my learning apostolic faith re: sacraments in my teen years. Later, it was a very non-ethnic Orthodox parish that catechized & chrismated me. I’ve never regretted it.

Hey Aquinas if you're listening. I would love to hear a discussion between Scott Hahn and Francis Chan. Both are talking about unity within the church and the issues with the many denominations.

@matt Fradd . Would it be possible to invite Scott Hahn back for a talk on the Filoque at least and the Immaculate Conception if possible (at best ?) Thank you so much!

"And we speak also of the Spirit of the Son, not as though proceeding from Him, but as proceeding through Him from the Father. For the Father alone is cause" - St. John of Damascus, died 749 before the controversy; considered a doctor of the Roman Catholic Church

I'm still waiting on a Part 2 on this topic, and difference between Oriental vs. Eastern Orthodoxy.

The Triumph of Our Lady's Immaculate Heart will at long last bring an end to the Schism

Did you ever do another episode that went in these topics? It's incredibly important to go into the more esoteric things because it's where the beauty of Catholicism outshines the problems of modernity.

Good quick discussion on some major topics. Thanks. -An Orthodox brother in Christ.

I have Eastern Orthodox friends, e.g. Greek, Egyptian, Ukrainian and Dr Hahn is right about different ethnic domination's in each Eastern Orthodox church or as he puts it "Dominationalism". Its difficult for someone outside of these communities to go to these Church's without feeling like an outsider.

I do love the orthodox church but as an English guy living in London completely understand the point about the churches being ethnic and not as easy to merge with

The West has a history of wild veering off the path, then snapping back to it, however many fell out of the proverbial cart of the Church on the way. However, the East has stuck very steadily to it broadly, but with no central aim, no guiding light, it has slowly wandered in different esoteric directions. I still have no clue which is more lost at this particular moment. If only we could get past our own pride and come together once more, perhaps we'd all find the thin and narrow path Jesus called us to walk with him.

The thought ocurred to me Aren't the 22 or 23 particular Eastern Catholic Churches (all under the Papal umbrella) ethnic?

The "Orthodox appears ethnic first then Christian" is so overplayed. It's not that way at all. We are one Orthodox Church, which happen to have different dioceses loosely centered around region. Incidentally, in the Bible there is "The Church in Rome," "The Church in Smyrna," "The Church in Ephesus," etc. These weren't just cities they were also ethnic centers. Our Churches have had to preserve ethnic identity amid severe persecution, sometimes only having that to hold onto, in a way that the Roman Catholics never will understand. Forgive me, but I never hear this "ethnic" argument from anyone other than White North Americans who have never had to be the minority in the room. Culture is beautiful and you can learn from it, especially when it isn't your own. And let's not pretend that Catholicism is not "ethnic." I as an Orthodox could say the same thing about Roman Catholicism: the first thing that strikes me is how "Roman" or "Italian" it is. The ethnic identity of a Church should never be one's criteria for truth. What I as a black American hear from this person is: "I didn't feel comfortable with the idea of being in a church where most people didn't look like me or speak my language." Welcome to the world of every ethnic minority in the U.S! And let's remember that Christianity is not in its orgins a Western or European religion. It is Middle Eastern, through and through. Yes He is the Savior of the world, but our Savior is Jewish, not Roman. Forgive me but I see through the spirit of this argument, and it annoys me every time I see it. I attend an Antiochian Orthodox Church. Antioch was in modern day Syria. More than half the congregation are non-Syrian, European converts from Protestantism. My guess is this person didn't stick around the Orthodox Church long enough to get past his personal discomfort with being with people who didn't look and talk like him. I've never once been made to feel uncomfortable in my church, nor has the ethnic "identity" of the church ever been emphasized or made an issue. The archpriest is Middle Eastern, but the deacons are not. At the local Greek Orthodox Church near it, the two senior priests are former Protestants who are German and Anglo-Saxon. Most black Americans were not raised Catholic. I guess I should be struck by how "ethnic" the typical Roman Catholic Mass feels and conclude "Christ certainly didn't want His Church to be so ethnic."

Surprised by Hahn’s answer. What he says is almost exactly why I think the Filioque is *wrong* - “sending into the world” is different from “proceeding eternally as the Trinity”. Two different matters entirely. Hence we are limited to what Jesus says, and He says explicitly that the Spirit proceeds from the Father, not “from us”.

Interestingly enough, there are now two new Orthodox mission parishes in my town. One celebrates and gathers at the prayer chapel of my Catholic parish and the other gathers at the fellowship hall of a Lutheran church. It warms my heart and I hope to witness the union of Catholics and Orthodox.

I almost became Coptic Orthodox but I can also attest that it is in fact a cultural Christian religion. Don’t get me wrong, it is beautiful. But it’s like you also have to learn about a whole new culture and not just the religious part. I’m sure it’s the same for Greek Orthodox. Whereas, as a Roman Catholic, it does not contain its own “culture.” I guess you can say it has a Roman Latin flavor which any country can adopt, which the world has indeed done so.

I am trying to find my way. I genuinely love orthodox - I disagree with just barely a handful of things…. But the fact that Jesus named Simon Peter when He met him, then told Peter he would be the foundation - it speaks to me beyond anything else.

I'm an LCMS Lutheran who has been contemplating leaving for either the Orthodox or Catholic Church for the past 3 or 4 years, but have been totally stuck in neutral. I don't think it's a matter of IF, but a matter of WHEN. There are various things that I find more appealing compared to the other in both Churches and kind of feel like I would be turning my back on the one that I don't join. I read the Orthodox Study Bible and listen to EWTN radio. There is not a Byzantine (Eastern) Catholic Church close enough that I could attend on a regular basis. Any prayers for my discernment would be most appreciated.

I also converted from Greek Orthodoxy, which I was baptized in. I found the way popes and others spoke before the Great Schism to be way way more in line with how the modern day papacy speaks and operates. Patriarch Barthlomew is simply given nowhere the same level authority as pre-schism popes even though he was supposed to take over their spot of primacy.

I like your short clips. Thanks Dr. Scott. I need to read more on the filioque.

Thank you so much for this video!!!! God bless!!!

Praying for Unity

God bless all my brothers and sisters, regardless of denominations.

You guys are incredible! Thanks !

Wow you guys left me hungry for more...

I remember a comment regarding the distress someone had over all the Christian denominations to the point of anxiety and wonder at which he should choose. Then one night he had a dream where Christ pulled all the denominations like different colored ribbons and tied them together to make a strong rope.

please make this video with scott as soon as possible bc I am currently in RCIA trying to figure out if I should become eastern orthodox or catholic

Hopefully waiting for the “another hour” of follow-up :) Also, what’s the status of reprinting Dr. Likoudis’s books

Matt please have him back for this discussion!

Very refreshing commentary and apparently too candid for many here...

Greetings from Poland. I really enjoy listening to this podcast❤

Can someone point me toward the book Dr Hahn suggests? I’ve tried various spellings and can’t seem to find it. Thanks!

Orthodoxy is not totalitarian and it's hard to believe this is a drawback. Greek Orthodox church doesn't impose its language on every other orthodox church, just like the Catholics do with Latin and the Muslims with Arab, and this is a great thing! Pluralism and democracy are our best features, not our signs of weakness over Catholicism 🤣🤗❤️✝️⛪🇬🇷

Dang. That's a really good point. What do you do if you agree with Orthodox theology, Catholic unity, Protestant freedom, and recognize the inherent Jewish-ness of canon? Theological Schizophrenia?

Matt Frad made a great point when He said that Eastern ( Oriental Rite) Catholics have a proclivity of accepting Orthodox Church teachings( such as denial of the Filioque) and denial of the Catholic Church teachings ( such as denial of the BVM's Immaculate Conception).

There is an ongoing dialogue between orthodox and roman catholic. It is not impossible that we will be united again as one. We shared alot of similarities and alot of differences. But not impossible.

The argument that the Orthodox are "too ethnic" is not very valid at all. The Eastern Catholic Churches are just as ethnic as the Orthodox.

Orthodox was THE church for 1000 years before the split, it just didn't need that name since it was the one and only "THE CHURCH".

Please do another podcast with Hahn on Eastern Christianity.

I like these short clips. More please.

Yes, let's do that. We want an episode about just that :)

Greetings to my Orthodox friends, as a Catholic I deeply love y'all.

Interesting discussion. Much respect and gratitude for our Orthodox brothers and sisters.

I was raised Catholic and I remember in CCD class they told us Jesus was Catholic but never mentioned that he was JEWish. Every time I’d leave a Catholic mass it was wham bam 50 mins and out no Bible study no sense of community. Years later and I am now a devout Greek Orthodox they have everything that I was looking for. I’m just sharing my experience, now very fulfilled and 100 percent back to Jesus and I praise the orthodox church for it everyday.

That Orthodoxy is ethnic was what stopped me from becoming Orthodox. I am a Westerner and former Anglo Catholic., well as a Canonical Hermit in the Catholic Church. In looking at the all too apparent disunity of the various autocephalous churches I found a community, haven and home as a Catholic.

Catholicism can be just as 'ethnic' as Orthodoxy (Croatian Catholic churches, Polish Catholic churches, etc. exist and at one time were the norm). Also, the Nicene Creed is written in the halls of the Vatican WITHOUT the filioque and numerous popes have recited the Creed without the filioque. It is Latin innovation, pure and simple.

I have a few friends that made the same mistake and who now see that Rome continues to fall away from the Apostolic tradition, especially now with blessing gay couples. The complaint of ethnicity is a silly one, since the Roman church has the same issue. There are parishes that speak Spanish and others that use Latin and others that use English. The Filioque is an error, and the insertion of it by Rome without a council was a sign of its pride.

For 1000 years, East and West, with many of the same differences that we can note today (eg Filioque), were in communion, with Westerners taking leavened communion in Eastern churches and Easterners taking unleavened communion in Western churches. Something to remember.

Dr. Scott Hahn is awesome. Can listen to him for hours. Been following him for years

I find that the Catholic Church can be ethnic also and it's not something unique to Orthodoxy. For example, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Dublin is full of great people but very heavily ethnic. The reason for this is because Eastern Christianity really isn't on the radar in the west as much as Protestantism and Catholicism can be. The Roman Catholic Church can also be very ethnic to a foreigner coming from the east to work in the west. They too have this feeling of exclusion. In addition to this, you have the Italian Mass, Nigerian Mass and Polish masses and guess who attend those? Greek Orthodox merely describes the roots of that Church which is Greek just as Roman describes the roots of the Catholic one. I say we learn to bridge the gap and learn how to embrace the roots of the Churches and its culture while doing our best to make it "Irish" as well if that's the country it's in. God bless.

No mention of the Orthodox Churches allowing divorce.

Amen, you guys are amazing, as a Catholic I have learned so much from you. God bless you all.

I always had a lot of interest in the Orthodox Church. I started attending an Orthodox Church in America congregation. During the year I attended, I took 2 free evening classes and went to Divine Liturgy every Sunday. I found the various Orthodox Churches throughout the world to be in constant disagreement and fighting with one another. There was supposed to be a world wide Pan-Orthodox meeting several years ago...and several of the autocephalous orthodox churches refused to attend it. The priest at the church where I attended would string people along and refuse to take people into the church after years. After a year, I stopped going. I honestly don't want to see another icon in my life. The bully priest sent me an email telling me that I would make a good Orthodox Christian and I should come back. I told him no. I have two former Presbyterian friends. They both became Catholic years ago and they are so, so happy with decision.

I was baptized in a Russian Orthodox Church, but have also taken communion in Greek and Serbian churches. Obviously, we're not "different denominations". As for the "ethnic" parts, my church alone has more than 15 different nationalities. It's got nothing to do with ethnicity and more to do with different jurisdictions within the same body - kinda like the US has federal states. I'm sorry, but many of your speakers are gravely misinformed. You should invite a well-informed orthodox speaker instead.

I read his book, Rome Sweet Home, years ago. There was no apparent logical sequence of thought in his decision to leave presbyterianism and join Romanism. It was chiefly feelings oriented / experiential. He tried to give the impression that there was thought behind the move, but there were large leaps of credulity (not to be confused with Biblical faith). I don't know if this was the motive, but Scott Hahn would be just another presbyterian pastor if he had not made the move to Roman Catholicism, where he has, as the Protestant who "returned to Rome," become a star.

Was there ever a part 2 to this?

I am biased, of course, but the reasons given do not seem very strong, especially the 'national' thing. I am a Greek Orthodox but can go into any Church (Russian, Serbian, American, Japanese etc) and get communion and confess etc, I have done so, exactly as I would in any Greek Orthodox Church. The "national Church" argument I have been hearing for so long, has frankly become very tiresome and outdated. We can talk about many other things, but that is not one of them. It is like listening to the age-old Protestant argument that Catholics and Orthodox 'worship' idols when they venerate icons. Come on guys, you can do better than that. God bless you and have a strong Lent.

I am Catholic from the Eatern rites, we believe every thing the Roman Catholic Church believes, including Felique.

Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us now and at the hour of our death, Amen!

Please do teaching on orthodoxy and Catholicism

These two arguments are really not good. To an Orthodox, hearing this makes me more inclined to stay Orthodox because it tells me one of your best really has no idea what Orthodoxy is. 1. They aren’t ethnic churches. If they act too ethnic, it’s a negative tendency, but not what they are. They operate under different patriarchates or jurisdictions. Like how the first millennium church operated. 2. There are different ways one can understand a “sending.” Catholics use the shallowest understanding and fall into a word-concept fallacy. There is a sending in terms of temporal sending forth, an eternal procession, and there is a hypostatic origination. The Creed was in reference to the hypostatic origin, as the Fathers talk about how the Son is begotten vs the Spirit is spirated. The Filioque confuses the Son as a second cause of the Holy Spirit.

It has less to do with ethnicity but with ethnic groups involved with national churches, I think. That makes the State and political interference to be crucial in ecclesiastical affairs, like during the very recent Russian invasion in Crimea (and the insane disturbances it may have caused). Of course the Eastern Catholic churches are ethnically circumscribed - because it lacked much of the universality and the missionary character the Western church had throughout the Middle Ages, while the Byzantine church became more or less the “Imperial church” -, like the Ukrainian Catholic Church, but the Catholic Church is not formed out of a kind of “confederation” of autocephalous national churches being parts; rather it works much more as a unity close enough to a “federative-like” structure, with one objective unitive principle of authority (the Petrine ministry), being the Eastern Catholic churches autonomous in status and not autocephalous, which means they have typical rites and are canonically independent (even though they are gathered around the visible and unitive Petrine authority). I think that was what Dr Hahn implied in his view. I honestly think Eastern Orthodoxy ecclesiology of autocephalous churches developed as a consequence of the rupture with this very unitive principle. If you don’t have the papacy, you will eventually end up with a “National Church” (that was inevitable before Protestantism turned into Evangelicalism, it was the very specific result of the Protestant revolutions as far as authority rupture goes): the Lutheran Church of Germany, the Lutheran Church of Denmark, the (Anglican) Church of England, the (Presbyterian) Church of Scotland and so forth. Ethnicity is less a consequence of it than the innovative “National Church” concept, developed and intertwined with the concept of the Modern State. The papacy is rooted in the core biblical ecclesiology.

I am still learning, and I know that I have much to learn, but I would like to throw in my two cents to react to Dr. Hahn's views on Orthodoxy. My views and logic could be wrong and it is very likely that I am wrong. I welcome all kinds of discourse as long as it leads to mutual understanding and opens the way for truth to prevail. 1) The Orthodox Church is ethnic, I go to an Orthodox Church that is part of the Greek Diocese although I am not Greek. But it is ethnic because of the history of the Eastern Church - as missionaries from the East went on missions, they would translate the Gospel and the services to make it more accessible to native populations (unlike what the Latin Church did until the 16th c.). When missionaries from the Russian Church landed in Alaska, they translated and taught the Gospel in the native language of the local tribes. I don't think Catholic should mean that we all speak the same language or we all do the exact same thing, but that the Gospel be made universally accessible to all peoples and cultures. Many Orthodox Churches in the US are very ethnic and keep ties to the "mother country" thanks to immigration from mainly Orthodox countries throughout the 20th century, but I know that if given enough time, the Orthodox Church will adapt to the many cultures that exist here in the United States. In my parish, the service is done in English despite being a "Greek" church, and when we recite the Lord's prayer it is done in English, Greek, and Spanish to reflect the cultures that congregate to worship God (maybe one day there will be all-Spanish services). I am always made to feel welcome (even when I think I don't deserve it). I love it! 2) The Filioque - This might be an historical misunderstanding, I think. But, like Dr. Hahn said, it is a very complicated issue that would take more than a RU-vid comment to discuss. Fundamentally, I think Catholics and Orthodox understand the procession of the Spirit similarly with different wording to understand the specifics - I think we are understanding "proceed" in different ways, but ultimately we're saying the same things... human language is very limiting. Hands down, I pray for the reunification of the Eastern and Western Churches, it won't be easy, the road will be long, but Christ's Church must be united to fight against the evil that is spawning all around us. God Bless!

I feel that argument is pretty week actually. Traditionally the bishops from different regions would come to councils to represent that area. So if you where from Antioch. You would be the bishop of Antioch. It doesn’t make you a denomination. On the higher levels there are arguements between like patriarch of Russia vs Constantinople because of war etc. but a Russian orthodox going to a Greek Orthodox is the same. Its not like going from a prodestant Baptist church to a charismatic. And the filoque is weak too because everybody got together in councils to discus these things but Roman bishop changed to without consulting anyone. So it’s authority issue. You can sometimes think your right about something but you should consult the others in case you are wrong. That’s what the prodestants do. Making themselves thousands of mini popes interpreting and re interpreting scripture by what it means to them and disregarding the councils and creeds before them.

I want to hear more! I’m currently torn between the two. On nationality though, I don’t see how location could not affect the church. In my area the Catholic Churches are very Mexican and I feel comfortable because I grew up here and I’m adapted to the culture but if you came in from Ohio I’d imagine you’d feel similar to going to a Greek Orthodox Church. You’re going to feel a culture but it shouldn’t affect doctrine or make ppl feel excluded. IDK that’s just my thought. I’m more interested in the difference of beliefs and can it unify?

I think there is a need to preach the rosary to anybody like how st Dominique did! Just my perspective

How do Catholics argue against the nationalism of Orthodoxy when it has multiple liturgies which were originally regional, too? Byzantine, Maronite, etc.

Good point on nationalisms role in the Eastern Churches. Attended Ukrainian Catholic Church where an extern pastor crossed out the filioque in the pew missals. Another pastor advocated for NATO membership and volunteered there were not that many KNOT cccs in Ukraine. They buried my parents but knowing a bit of history I told the pastor that was bad politics and Russian paranoia would rather destroy Ukraine than let the west have it. I returned to the NO and TLM upon learning more bad things about the situation in Ukraine. My mom did note the East did not travel far in their evangelization efforts. There had been a split in this parish over marriage and some created an Orthodox parish since it does not follow Christ’s restoration of the institution.

I go to a Greek Orthodox Church and I'm not Gereek, I'm Irish. I just got baptized with two Mexican guys. Our priest is Assyrian. So the claim that Orthodoxy is some kind of ethnically exclusive thing is FALSE. It is the one true Church, and it is open to all.

It's funny because although Orthodoxy is ethnic, I feel the exact opposite as Scott on this. Even though my church is Antiochian, I can visit the local Greek Orthodox Church and feel right at home. Can a Catholic say the same? It seems to me that Catholic churches are all over the place. Many Catholics don't even seem to agree with the current pope! Isn't that supposed to be Christ's Vicar on earth?

I believe people are jumping ships when their soul become stagnant, reaches a bottleneck in their interior life, cannot carry their cross anymore and live a saintly life. They tends to blame it outward toward the clergy, the pope and the church. Convincing themselves that they are right and the church was wrong. Solidifying their dissatisfaction thru argument and history. Then they jump to Orthodoxy leaving everything behind without solving all their struggle, their crosses and just starts a new. Such a clever escape route.

What’s the «temporal missions»?

The mental gymnastics people have to go through in order to justify catholicism and especially the fillioque is really astounding. So far I haven't seen any convincing refutation on orthodoxy. I am about to become a catechumen in the Orthodox Church, after 2 years as a catechumen in the catholic church. Granted, I didn't attended very much these last few months. But something is WAY off in the catholic church, on so many levels actually, and I truly believe that this all started to go south 1000 years ago. Orthodoxy is the true faith and I really hope I will find my place in it and finally get baptized by triple immersion, in the name of THE FATHER, THE SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT! Amen