We raise dorpher/Katahdin cross. Havent wormed in 3 years on our 30A 🤞 with lambs today there is 85 head running. That are moved every 2 or 3 days. It will take us over a month to go around the farm. Fresh grass is our best remedy. Happy farming. Thanks for the video
I just found your channel and will begin binge watching tonight. Katahdin is the direction I'm heading at the moment. We live in Mississippi. Great video.
You're doing a great job Grace. I used to run 300 ewes on management intensive and accelerated lambing on 40 acres in Northern Illinois. Made a great living doing exactly the same things are doing today. Keep up the good work. Oh, and check out the book," A shepherd's view of the 23rd Psalm" I think you will teally enjoy it.
Wow! 300 on 40 acres! What kind of supplement did you provide to support that number? Wondering mostly about hay overwinter and/or any grazing season supplement.
Great info from all. Thank you for the video. I am in beginning stages of looking into getting sheep for my smaller acreage. I am familiar with cows & have never had sheep. I know the market for beef and the large consumption of beef in the American diet. When you refer to the profit from hair/meat sheep where do you market them. Is this profitability from the consumption of the meat?
*Behold the Christian Race*, Adam-man ... Cush (Greek: Ethiopia), means sun-burnt face Phoenicians described by the Greeks, as fair-haired, fair-skinned people Persia means Lord of the Aryans now renamed IRAN Zimbabwe once known as Rhodesia Chicongo once known as Chicago ... 12 Tribes passed through the Caucasus Mountains (i)ssac's Sons / Saxons / Anglo-Saxons / Europe / Australia / New Zealand / North America / Christian First World / "We the People" ... 38 For as in those days before the flood, *they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,* until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, *so will be the coming of the Son of Man.*
As Greg Judy says: it’s not the profit per animal that matters but the profit per acre.” I have found that is true and you can make more on Saint Croix because they’re more profitable if you consider profit per acre. Currently Saint Croix are more marketable and in super high demand. There is no parasite issues, they are great mamas, lamb in the pasture without help, have higher birth rate and lower death rate and don’t require any grain. I have had Dorpers, they are much more prone to parasites, higher maintenance, higher death rate, and not in as high of demand when sold at 2-3 months old lambs directly off the farm. St Croix ewes are currently sold out until 2024. If you don’t believe me go try to find some.
Raised St. Croix sheep for 20 years. I did raise a few Dorpers but parasites were a problem with this breed as the Shepherdess addressed. I also agree if your intention is to maximize lamb weight and profit the Dorper is an excellent breed and superior to St. Croix for that purpose. However, if you are looking for the breed that requires the minimal care with lower feed and manpower requirements I would strongly recommend St. Croix.
A couple of points. First, Greg Judy is popular within the niche of Homesteading and family self sufficiency. Which is his targeted audience. Not commercial meat production. He sells live animals not trying to compete with the meat industry on a niche level. His focus is only livestock not end product hanging weight. Within the entirety of ruminant community that is a small niche. You have crossover viewers because you also appeal to us too. Particularly your lifestyle, political points, economy etc. which I have also shared your videos on other forums and to people Greg Judy also appeals to. Second point, Most of us watching in this group are interested in feeding our families in self sufficient way, not maximizing hanging weight with outside inputs. We have different goals is all. The point for us isn't having the input of de worming for saving every individual sheep and having a flock dependent. It is for a stronger flock in the long run just like you pointed out yours is better each year. We want that for a stronger herd for health resilience when dewormers no longer work or are unavailable. Viewers like me aren't interested in maximizing sales is all but we like watching your journey and you make a lot of great points. Or model is just different. Now for my last point, I brought in St. Croix Sheep a long time ago. They came from out of my area and I lost a bunch out of the gate. Those that survived thrived and their offspring still do with zero chemical and grain inputs on a lot less than 100's of acres. That is the only issue I take here. You don't need hundreds of acres to make this work without chemical inputs . That is the way you projected it. Enjoy the crossover viewership. You appeal to the homesteading community and those looking to create a market for themselves.
I feel that tiredness you’re talking about. To cut back on our workload we got rid of all our goats and are strictly concentrating on our Katahdin flock. But after watching your videos and a bit more research the Dorper sheep is a possibility in our near future. We just can’t get over how muscular they are from the get go!
I’ve had hair sheep for about the last 4 years and really like the ewes we’ve kept to build our flock. I used a 50:50 Dorper: Blackbelly ram on pure Dorper ewes (triplet ram from Blackbelly ewe). Offspring are very fertile, rebreed quickly, milk well, shed clean, and last a little longer in the flock than pure Dorpers. They do not seem to get “overfat” as easily as pure Dorpers. Overfat ewes seem to have lower lambing rates as well as birthing problems.
But the point is don’t worm (no chemicals) No maintenance whatsoever No grain feed All natural I have 180 acres I rotate Dexter/ and south polls And Saint Croix Then chickens behind .
I always agree with most of your points, but its important to point out that 37% less weight doesn't equal 37% less income, because you could essentially increase your stocking rate by 37% as the St. Croix would eat less. Like you said it's goal dependent, there's always pros and cons to each or there would be only one breed.
Agreed. And my guess is that the goal is to maximize Dorper market fever. Dorper is overpriced right now. The cost for deworming, can be covered by the robust growth rate, and market demand. However, it may be just sensational bubble which would eventually burst IMHO. Similar to how the marbled oversized beef used to be hot when grain feed was affordable. When market cooled off, and inflation kicked in, the rancher went broke trying to stick with old trend and its expensive problem. To be profitable the right way, it would require a complete change over of cow herd genetic. Can't just simply throw grain fed genetic oversized cows on pasture and expect them to adapt. Dorper's robust growth rate, thus their impressive weaned weight may mean that they're not adaptable to humid weather to become parasite resistant. So they're not really a breed for regenerative farmer. Regenerative farming is about soil life, and many of the dewormers that end up in the soil would prevent the healing process to truly complete.
@@lukeryuzaki2328 I have had moderate luck cross breeding dorper with parasite resistant breeds like St Croix in a humid climate. But, it's certainly not easy.
@@Velacreations Good to hear. The thing remain that we, the people that cross breed to have parasite reistance, is still far away from creating a new breed from these program so we can have sheep offsprings that breed true to have good characteristic of Dorper and parasite resistant. And if we're to sell to other shepherds, most of them want at least the pure bred Dorpers because for the hot market. We're not exactly getting the Dorper premium price.
Just found your channel and I have been binge watching for the last week. Such great information!!!! My grandparents had 800 acres in southern Illinois and although I was always on the farm earning some kind of money I chose to be a commercial airline pilot instead. I have been blessed with a very good career as a major airline captain but I am wanting to come back to my roots and have my children get to know some of the things I took for granted. You have inspired me to buy some land and give it a try. Thank you so much.
As someone who raises katahdin sheep, I'd love to hear your perspective on why not them. I personally have found that while I'm not getting 20k a head raising, rotational grazed, grass-fed, no wormer lamb has allowed me to push a premium price. But similar to what you said, we started with the katahdin because of being worried about worms with dorper.
I don’t want to do anything at all with deworming which is why I was interested in St. Croix. How do you manage, or do you even, deworming for Katahdins?
@@cameronmurray4479 We only worm new stock to the farm while they're in quarantine. After that we rotate every week (because we work full time jobs and use premier1 nets with a mixed herd of Katahdin sheep and Kiko goats)
@@cameronmurray4479 I do no flock wide de worming. If I notice an animal is slow on a drive or slow to move to the next paddock I will worm it and mark it for harvest, but it's fairly uncommon. The only two I've had to dose this year had dorper linage which is typical for us. I never intentionally let anything die. A certain well no proponent of parasite resistant hair sheep lets anything die that wants too, but to me that approach seems unethical.
We raise Barbados, khathadin, st croix crosses and I just love them. In Hawaii we don't get a break from the parasites so parasite management is a huge deal here. I really enjoy watching your videos. For some reason Dorpers are not as popular here in regards to live sales.
Dorper are hardy and copes well in dry areas. Here in Namibia, sheep is farmed in areas that typically gets from 4 to 8 inches of rain per year. Dorper are really popular.They produce well off natural grazing. Actually, all beef and mutton is produced as pure organic, natural field raised animals. Many feeds and hormones (and all GMO products) are actually against the law here. Sometimes, the "developing world" is ahead of the game🤔
we are runing a small flock of dorpahdins. i find the more dorper they look the heavier they become. even the ones that look more katahdin are a bit on the lean side. i bought most of my flock off a neighboring farmer who shares the sentiments about wormload. the more dorper they are, the more parasite load. thats why i havent quite gone pure dorper yet. unless i register, it makes little sense to my bottom line. its all about finding a heavy boy and a few heavy girls and going from there.
Hi, I’m not convinced that your statement of 37% less weight of animal means 37% less lbs sold. You can run more animals per acre generally speaking and can actually generate more lbs per acre. I am a cattle guy and we are working on lowering our mature size for more efficient grass converting cattle. PS : keep up the great work, I enjoy your videos!
Yep, the whole heritage breed/naturally parasite resistant deal is a rough landscape. We grew a healthy base with our Shetland flock and threw in a Cheviot ram last year because the carcass is so small and the growth takes… forever. And we are going to continue “upsizing” and puzzling out how to get the sheep we want (250lb, wool, good hooves, no medication, thrifty, twins). A legitimate farm is a business. And you have to figure out what you are willing to sacrifice and pursue to make your business work.
@@OkTxSheepLady There are enough uses for my wool (occasional fleece sales, mulch, dog beds...) that I don't want a shedding/rooing fleece. I hire a fella from a couple states away to shear my sheep. The time he takes and the cost are worth it. Plus, a big part of it is simple aesthetics; I prefer to own wool sheep. I like their looks and am willing to make the business sacrifices for legitimate wool at the moment. In the future? Who knows. I like the slow growth model I've got right now and don't plan on leaving wool crosses anytime soon.
A dorper carcass IS WAY BETTER.... but a walking St. Croix will always bring more than a dead dorper in any market scenario. That is why people have crossed them up trying to find a happy medium IMO.
Your lower income figures ignores the fact that a smaller animal is more efficient with feed, so although they are 37% less profit per animal, but per unit of land (your real limiting resource), you can feed 40% more ewes. A smaller breed often outperforms at profit per acre than larger breeds. This is similar to the efficiency of sheep over cattle. Per unit of land, you can raise more pounds of sheep than you can of cattle. Intensive grazing systems, like what Greg Judy uses, focus on profit per acre, not profit per animal. This way, they maximize their return on their most limited resource.
Good point, but as Austin at Crossroads Livestock mentioned in this video, most of your buyers are looking for a frame size that pure St. Croix doesn’t offer. You have to please the buyer or you don’t have profit per acre. You could explore the method he used of crossing dorper and st. Croix. 👍🏻
It depends on the market you're selling to. Greg Judy and others sell a lot of breeding stock at much higher prices than market lambs. If you have limited land, the focus should be on profit per acre, not profit per individual animal.
Thanks for commenting. I’m glad the St. Croix is working well for you. Its less about breed and more about finding a good match for your goals. What is your profit per acre on St. Croix?
Yes, context is everything! St Croix won't always be the best return per acre, especially in drier areas with fewer losses to parasites. I'm only around $450 (net) per acre right now with our sheep, but that's much higher than we were getting before we switched our focus from profit per animal. We also have virtually no inputs, including no hay during the winter, but that took us years to build up with our grazing management. You can find dorpers with higher resistance to parasites and breed from those lines that thrive well on your property.
Another small note is that our St Croix dont need hoof trimming, even in our sandy soils. Our Dorpers needed trimming a few times a year. You don't realize how much of a labor savings that is until you get beyond a few dozen sheep.
The Royal White breed is highly desirable and was originated from Dorper and StCroix stock. It combines the best parasite resistance and the carcass size.
I'm just not excited about eating animal dosed with antiparasitics...what was done a thousand years ago? Wild sheep? I had a lot of success with Amber Technology
@@theShepherdess so how do we replicate? If more land is necessary can it be utilized other ways simultaneously? What about chickens? I've seen a program rotating cows, pigs then chickens to manage parasites
You don't have to worry nobody in his right mind is going to dose livestock just before they get slaughtered by the time it gets slaughtered any trace of any treatment is long gone its also stipulated on the products, the time period before slaughter or by product can be used for human consumption
This breakdown was awesome. Thank you. I kinda knew I was gonna go Dorper but was extremely concerned with parasites . You took a lot of the fear out of running sheep. Thank you for this…. Can’t wait for the beef video. Blessings and love ❤️
I think you over simplified the question of live weight. Your farm will carry more smaller ewes which will produce more lambs. We sell meat, so saint croix would probably not work for us because the cost per kill doesn’t change.
@@theShepherdess yes, but I think in the context of sales by live weight you’re better off with the smaller lower maintenance ewe unless you get a premium for the larger one since you could stock more of them.
I really appreciate the thought that you have put into every aspect of building your herd; it’s a big advantage to the rest of us. Thank you for your time!
Greg Judy has lambing rates of at least 2 or above it is hard to get that with dorpher. The size difference doesn’t particularly matter smaller sheep mean higher stocking rate so would probably equate to the same amount of meat per acre. Imaging if Greg had to deworm all his sheep at times he has 300 head so based on your math that’s 300 hours of labor per year.
It sounds like Saint Croix ewes would be a good means for a beginning grazer to begin with and service them with a Dorper ram. Nice to learn your sheep dying on you has gone down over the last three seasons. Is this all increased resistance or improving management too?
We have been rotational grazing cattle for 30 years with no treatment of any kind or grain. Recently got Dorper sheep to ad to the system, 21 sheep on 80 acers for now.
it’s great we have all these breeds with different variations. I’m running mostly st croix which are smaller but after watching this I might use dorper as terminal, didn’t know they were so big! Get hybrid vigor, bigger butcher lambs, while using thrifty st croix mom. Might not get 100% pure dorper meat yield but close, and even dorper cannot get close to those Suffolk . And if you really want a big carcass just have a cow man! 😅
I really like to listen to peoples videos on sheep. But is there such a thing as eating grass efficiency with sheep? Or... I worded that wrong, I mean whatever trait determines them being able to not need extras, extra feed, and so on beyond what's on the land? I had heard 1 of Greg Judy's videos where he raves about how St Croix being able to get enough nourishment from just normal grass without grain or hay. But I haven't done sheep yet. So I can't tell if that means ALL sheep breeds have similar efficiency to get enough strength from just foraging without extra grain or hay (except in winter), or if some breeds are worse at it than others? And curious what you think on this? Is there such a thing as a type of sheep breed that is 'the least maintenance'? And sorry to reference some other persons channel, but I had to explain why I asked a certain thing.
Thank you, I look forward to every informative video you make. Before you started did you take a Greg Judy class? I live somewhat near you outside of dfw, and currently looking for land.
I realize you're not raising organic sheep so no offense intended but I'm interested in raising sheep and genuinely curious. If you're raising a breed with very low parasite resistance, doesn't that make you dependent on pharmaceuticals? In other words, if a time comes where you can't obtain your dewormers, vaccines, etc. won't your sheep die? If you have to use pharmaceuticals anyway, why not just raise a bigger commercial sheep breed? Thanks in advance and probably a million more questions to follow lol!
Saying you will raise fewer pounds of lamb per year with smaller framed animals is not accurate imo. Remember, your acreage can support a certain amount of pounds, not a certain number of animals. Every time you use bigger animals in an effort to increase weaning weights, their feed efficiency drops and practical fertility also drops. Your land can also support fewer of them. Great video.
Hi James, This is a good point and I'm glad you commented on it. A few others have done so as well. One hiccup with this thought stream is the assumption that a small carcass will bring the same price per pound as a larger carcass. Unfortunately, as Austin brought to light (at 3:13), conventional buyers don't favor small carcasses. You won't have as many buyers for them and will receive a much lower price per pound. Austin could have just increased the QTY of the smaller animal, but he saw the need to bring in a better carcass to secure a buyer base. Thankfully the sheep market is hot right now, and there is huge demand for small breeds among homesteaders and hobby farmers. This should float things for a while, but in the long run a for-profit sheep farmers will have to breed-up their flock to meet industry standards.
Personally, I do like dorper over St. Croix, I've raised St. croix and at 5-6 months males were passing 80 pounds and for ewes was 6-7 months, and about profit was about the same because we were able to have more sheep on the same 10 acres, I just prefer having less sheep.
Why do feed you Sheep grain they don’t need it Shepherdess really. You a lot too learn about Sheep tho really. You Should research to See if anyone has done trails with the Sheep breeds that you are talking about in your Video tho in Cross them really. That’s how you can get a better Sheen that Suits your farming practices tho really. Shepherdess. There’s a lot of Sheep breeds to choose from tho really. You have your Purebreds breeds or your Composite breeds too for Meat or Wool or both tho . And it all depends on what you want to do tho really. Here are Some tips for you tho really Kiwi Shayne
Can Anybody tell me the Species of a Sheep that is Black on the head ( Short haired there ). and a Dark(er) Brown on the rest ! Someone was raising a few for Pets, and these Sheep Even had the Predominance over a hand full of [ Pet ] Pitbull's. I'm Not Lying !
I totally understand your reasoning for running Dorpers. We're planning to add some rams later on. We have a small flock of Katahdins we're keeping pure and increasing. These guys fly through our zero degree winters. Find what works for you and run with it!
Awesome video as always. I'm always impressed with your progress. When you class out your ram lambs and ewe lambs always look for the longest frame length lambs, it will increase the meat percentages on the carcass weight by 3-5% and keep the 5 longest ones for the stud sales 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🐑🐏🐏🐑🐏 Stay blessed.
Don't get too caught up in the breed sales dollars and hype or in anybody's you tube advice. There is a lot of information out there today but you still have to sort through all of it and find the information that works for you.
You only have a Small acre farm tho and are new to Sheep farming tho . But also have a lot to learn tho really. You are text book farmer. The way you learn about Sheep is working with them hands on really. Not just from a book or from Temple grandin really tho Kiwi Shayne
I love the resistance in my White Dorpers. I raised Nigerian dwarf goats for years and culled the wormy duds. By the end of 15 years had a very resistant herd. I will do the same with my sheep…. I plan on getting more this fall.
Hey, i am new to your videos. I have small flock of Katahdin cross. I never heard of dorper sheep before but am very interested in adding to my current flock with potential of switching my herd out. But I’ve run into a small snag, being that there is only one person selling them in a 4 hours area. I’m Northen Jersey. And when I called to inquire price and info, I was dumbfounded in the price. 2k per Ram, 10k for a starter herd of 5 ewes and a Ram. So my question is, what is a typical price you see? Is that a rip off price or is that what they go for? Thanks
That is definitely a rip-off. You can pickup suitable commercial stock at the local sale barns in Oklahoma for under $2 per pound live weight most of the year. The "value-added" market on registered stock only applies to breeding more registered stock. If you put that registered ram over commercial ewes it won't matter what his paperwork says the offspring will only bring commercial prices.
I was wondering… why you selected your particular breed… and now I know …good choice… I also follow Greg Judy… do you have an agreement with your meat processor?
Awesome lesson. Yes you are so right what works on somebody else’s place might not work on yours. So take the time and be patient and the land will teach us what it can support.
South African Mutton Merino is what you need to research. Meat + Excellent Wool. Low maintenance. Also the Meatmaster is good if you are not into wool but you might be too cold for them.
Thank you Shepherdess for sharing and your sheep book for beginners. I've decided to go with Australian White sheep for size, weight gain and meat quality as well as some other health related reasons. I have nearly 1,000 acre ranch in Ecuador that will be shared with Nubian milk goats.
I'm much further north - Nova Scotia, Canada to be exact and I've discovered a similar thing after 3 years breeding hair sheep. I started with Horned Wiltshire sheep due to their parasite resistance and hardiness but I've found they are much to slow growing and smaller than I need. I direct market beef and lamb and the carcass yield just isn't where it needs to be on the wiltshires, much like the St. Croix. I purchased 4 white dorper ewes last year and 2 of them have really filled out, 2 need to be culled. I'm hoping to make a video on it soon, going over similar points as you did today. I'm transitioning towards dorpers from here on out.
St Croix are THE most parasite resistant breed there is, and as a homesteader.....it was a no brainer for me. But I go for pure quality, over quantity.
You forgot too talk about the price of the dewormer, of the fancy corral you have. The fact that the dewormer gonna kill you're earthworm and the stress inflict too you're sheep every month. Having a low resitance race of sheep is not only a bit of extra work it's a risky gamble that neither you're animals and you're soil should be forced too take. It depends on you're goals if you want to have the biggest sheep possible go dorper and feed them ton of grain. If you want too go grass fed choose st croix, barbados is also a good choice.
Yup. I learned from the fellow who has a few hundred head of sheep and has never wormed them. That's a HUGE savings of time and effort and stress on the animals. Also the negative consequences to the soil life. We can ride together.
I'm located in California and I raise Dorpers. I have a breeding stock flock and a commercial stock. I ran this 2 flocks of about 60 on 40 acres but the Fullblood Dorpers is what is bringing the most. I have been carefully selecting Rams and ewes that will produce South African Standards lambs for our breeding stock. Our goals is to have type 5 ewes and Rams to confidently offer them to dorper sheep Breeders at a higher yield price. But we also have the commercial culled sheep for our clients that need them for consumption. We have been having success at it so far. One thing I know is that I am convinced I will need a handling chute to make my operation easier.
Thanks for the vid. Wow I'm so confused about stocking rate. First I read 1000 lbs/acre. Then I watched a vid by Linessa Farm saying he's got 50 head on 4 acres. Now you tell me 2-3/acre. Surely there must be a better rule of thumb. I've only got 1/2 acre and was planning to raise 4 sheep on it. Maybe it means I'll have to feed some hay year round and move them more frequently.
I typically don’t provide any feed besides the grass on the ground, which is why my stocking rate is low. You can fit a lot more sheep on an acre, but the more you add the higher your chance of buying feed :).
Great video! I've been looking into starting a targeted grazing business to help reduce wild fires out here in California, currently I'm considering raising St. Croix or Barbados black bellies since they seem to require less input. With that being said recently I bought a Cheviot ewe & absolutely love the breed, I feel like I've heard you talk about this before, but what's your opinion on wool sheep?
I don’t have much experience with wool sheep, other than I know that the shearing is an expensive process and the wool doesn’t have much value on the conventional market. If the the growth rate makes up for the expense of shearing I’d say go for it!
I'm sorry, but Greg Judy's stocking density is much tighter than 2-3 acres per head. To suggest otherwise is highly inaccurate, and would go directly against the management principles he's been promoting the last 15-20 years.
You are correct, however I am referring to stocking rate in this video, not stocking density. 👍🏻 Stocking density is what is adjusted day to day with the polywire. Greg Judy mobs up his animals using polywire paddocks. Stocking rate is the overall land to animal ratio. Greg Judy manages 1620 acres total and runs about 200-250 ewes.
@@theShepherdess He runs that many sheep but don’t forget about his around 300 head of cattle. He also doesn’t run sheep on the whole thing. He could run way more if he had no cattle.
Another great video Grace and it adds meat to the email that you sent out. Its much better for me to see and hear your topics rather than read then, its probably and age thing. But the two of them together (video and email) reinforces the point that your trying to get across. If people have not signed up to Grace's news letter then I would consider doing so as you get so much information. Thanks for posting
You mentioned st. Croix is 37% smaller so it would be 37% less income which is not correct because you should have a higher stocking rate which would make up the difference. It’s the same with cattle.
@@theShepherdess If you're not selling to the drug-free, grass-fed market you're not getting as much per #. It's worth it to cultivate the market that pays me the best price, and that's never the commodity market.
