I'm not sure what you were expecting or what kind of treatment you got but I took the Neurofeedback for severe anxiety that I have had for almost 35 years and I plan on going back for another round. My experience was very relaxing and I can honestly say that my anxiety was greatly reduced and my memory sometimes is off the charts. I am not joking when I say that I can do something like a crossword puzzle and will be reading the clues and things that I don't remember ever learning will pop into my head - it's like the answers are just there and it amazes me. I am a senior citizen and I never had a bad experience at all with the Neurofeedback. And by the way, I had some sort of childhood trauma - I had a therapist years ago tell me that I showed signs of it but I have no memory and he feels that I blocked it - I still have no memory of whatever it might have been. But childhood trauma can be anything from a bicycle accident to abuse.
What you describe is totally different from what I am going through. My "real-life" experience has been very positive and nothing like yours. I have had bio-feedback where I consciously had to seek a reward & I was in control of the experience. The neurofeedback protocols administered to me do not require my feedback and adjustment. It is a totally passive experience rewarded wirh light & sound. I was skeptical at first with so many unanswered questions, however I saw the tremendous growth in behavioral changes & temperament of two family members after their work in neuro-feedback so I decided to move forward & feel I am better for it. I am sorry you had a bad experience but please don't judge the entire therapy because you may have had a badly trained therapist. There are good and bad doctors in all areas of the healthcare system.
Thank you. I’m researching Nuerofeedback therapy and all I really have seen up until this video was success stories so I appreciate that you’ve provided a thorough explanation of the opposite experience. I’m going to try it but I will be watching for any worsening symptoms. Thanks again.
The symptoms you describe are similar to what I felt when i started meditating with intent, its like both my body and brain were screaming YOU THINK WE DONT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING??? YOU THING YOU'RE BEING CLEVER??? and I remember having the worst nightmares and full on panic attacks after, whereas before I was just severely depressed. I think it's because that trauma part of you is scared of dying. I constantly find myself reverting to iterations of older patterns. It's very disheartening. My experiences with neurofeedback were largely positive. First thing we worked on was the difference between my waking state and my sleeping state and getting those further apart. I had my sessions during lockdown 1 and they really helped me sleep during that time. I still feel the benefit. Afterwards we attempted to deal with some of the trauma related stuff we discussed during my initial consultation, and those results were more mixed. At the time I was cycling myself off ssri-s and was going through a hectic time between the various jobs and furloughs I was doing and so that might have skewed things but one of the things my therapist mentioned is that even though it is claimed that you can't be anxious and depressed at the same time, if you've got enough going on you can suffer from what she called "multiple arousal syndrome" which makes picking the necessary threads a lot more difficult. I've not been able to find that term in official literature but it's made me more forgiving of myself and more willing to cycle through different methods of calming or motivating myself, and know now that any "structure" or "ritualization" i try to impart on my life will probably just fall apart. for now. And sometimes you just have to give it a rest. My therapy was similar to what's described here, electrodes on head to provide real time measurements, the screen doing different things depending on how my brain was behaving but also I had monitors for heart rate, blood pressure, skin conductivity, something else I cant remember. I remember her asking what was going on when she saw me reactive and I found it difficult to express and we had a good laugh about how normal people describe pain vs medical professionals. Really it was part counselling, part electrodes to the noggin but I think that was her approach, I have no idea about industry standards. I think the biggest roadblock with all modalities is your own body trying to keep you stagnant in order to keep you safe and then sabotaging your efforts. Its very difficult to keep conscious and deliberate.
I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. As a person who has done NFB for 10+ years, I know what you mean when you describe the "trial and error" method. It sounds like the Othmer method which is Infra-low NFB. (That's what I think the amplifier in the picture was anyways) This method can have good results but it is only trains a couple spots on the brain at a time. Like you also said, it is kind of like taking shots in the dark without any data to guide it before you start working on a person's brain. Currently, I only do QEEG-guided NFB which provides a 19 channel "brain map" of all the different areas of the brain and which areas/frequencies need adjusting Instead of just relying on patient feedback. The QEEG (which should be done pre/post) gives the patient a better idea of what needs to be done with objective data and then shows their results afterwards. 19 channel training also tends to be more effective than 1 or 2 channel training like you showed in the video so you can train more areas at a time.
The key point that you need to understand is they were not using a brain map to determine a protocol for the author of this video. If a brain map is used, so the practitioner doesn’t have to guess, or try different frequencies to see what your response is, neurofeedback is an amazing and powerful tool. But you need to see a practitioner that knows what they are doing, and preferably one that uses brain maps to determine the protocol for training.
Please look into Neuroptimal Neurofeedback. It is a dynamical system that does not direct the brain into a specific state but gives information and allows the brain to make its own choice. Since the brain is directing the session, the risk of over or under training are eliminated.
You don't want to let a traumatized or OCD brain direct the session. This can trigger people into deeper dissociation. It's dangerous!!! Neuroptimal completely destroyed my ability to connect with my emotions for a really long time. And I'm not the only one. I read some real horrorstories on it.
Thanks for making the video. Ideally a full 19 channel EEG should be done to record 10 minutes of eyes open and 10 minutes of eyes closed data. This can give the most information on your EEG patterns and it will determine if you are even a candidate for neurofeedback or if something else is higher priority. It will determine a precise protocol and electrode locations for what you are struggling with that will be most effective and minimize any reactions. If any form of neurofeedback causes reactions initially, its best to let the reactions wear off before trying again. Neurofeedback is not right for everyone and if something doesn't feel right just stop. Training again before the reaction wears off can just reinforce and prolong the negative reaction. If you have CPTSD, suspect having an auto-immune illness like Lyme, mold, heavy metal toxicity, chronic fatigue/ME/fibro-myalgia, are sensitive or allergic to a lot of things, have high adrenaline levels, racing thoughts, concussions, seizure/migraine history, have a mood or thought disorder you may be more prone to side effects from neurofeedack. You may want to consider starting with biofeedback with a certified "BCB" practitioner from www.bcia.org. This is a simpler and safer intervention that can be very powerful in 8-10 sessions. If you have already reacted to neurofeedback switching to biofeedback can help you turn things around as well.
You can't just lump them all together and say "neurofeedback". There are many different systems and types of neuorfeedback and there are dramatic differences between them. In general there are operant conditioning systems (which sounds like what you had), there are neuromodulation systems, and there are systems to promote learned voluntary control over the target brain activity. Then there are also systems that use some combinations of these. I think that your generalized caution against neurofeedback is not really valid, you need to be more specific, you can caution against neurofeedback for your particular problem by a particular therapist using a particular specific system.
I think generalized caution is important. Sometimes we get hyped up about some new therapy and don't know enough about the potential negatives before we jump right in.
It depends what type of Neurofeedback you are experiencing. I use NeurOptimal® neurofeedback which is very different from the Shannon based math that underpins most neurofeedback systems. NeurOptimal is a non-invasive approach which mirrors your brains perturbation activity across 64 frequencies. Your brain adapts itself ,since it is a sophisticated complex adaptive system. We never tell it what we think it needs like all the other approaches This is all based on the research and lwork of Dr. Karl Pribram and his work entitled the Holonomic Brain. Ver different from the entrain and migrate approach that you experienced.
The technology does exist. This is because you used a form of neurofeedback that wasnt dynamic systems oriented. You need to use a system like Neuroptimal instead of using a form of beurofeedback where you play this guessing game of trying to determine what the patient needs. Neurofeedback should not be done with patient feedback.
It’s interesting that you say that they wait for you to provide feedback. That actually isn’t true for all neurofeedback. The one that we use goes off of the computer measuring your brainwaves. If you go above or below the set threshold, the movie stops, or modulates (depending on setting). If it is too easy or too hard for your brain to hit, then the level is increased or decreased depending on the protocol. So, I’m not familiar with the kind that you experienced that had the practitioner increase or decrease based on what you felt. I’m sorry it wasn’t a good experience for you. That had to be very frustrating.
I am so sad to hear your bad experienc regarding neurofeedback training, but it seem that your practioner doesn't perform his/her task in a professional manner. As you said in the introduction, the prupose of the training is to reward better wiring in your brain instead of former bad wiring, since the previous wiring is bad, there is no point for the client to choose which better protocol work best for him/her. I just started neurofeedback traning, and I feel emotion was better (more clam than before). What my practioner does was constructing a brain map using brainmaster, then compare my result with normal group, so as to find out the room for improvement, so that she can choose the proper protocol based on her professional knowledge or advice from external partner. But according to your description, your practioner skipped the most important part, otherwise you or the practioner can't compare what was improved after a number of expensive training session with the initial brain map.
This is interesting. I've been treating myself for the last 18 months, and after the latest code changes I can feel it just starting to work reliably - for a long time it has been pretty sporadic, when I have felt great effects some times and nothing the rest. But in the context of that, I definitely feel my parts fighting back against me. I'm tired and worn out in general right now, but sleep has been worse and I've been in more pain etc. But at the same time I feel my brain working past that. It is almost like it has to come up for them to learn that they have a new ability to release it a little. I do think it's probably like psychedelics - can be extremely beneficial, but neuroëlasticity also draws things out, and it can do too much without having a framework to work with it. You can have a group of people totally relaxed on LSD and the one with bad trauma in the corner snarling and screaming. IFS massively opened Pandora's box for me, and there has been nothing I could do about it, just total chaos. Until I started on the feedback that is, and when it does work it does more than anything before ever has. Do you know what protocol (placement and frequencies) she was using? The software you showed was EEGer, but I don't know if that was what you used. I'm hoping to go into a career in this, and making the approach safer and working out why it doesn't work for some people is very much in my mind, as I'd like to automate more of the process. Assuming I do continue down that path in a few years, would love to talk further with you or anyone else who's had a bad experience and see if we can piece together why and what needs to change. Quite possibly, apart from anything else, your brain was pushed too hard at a particular frequency. It's a complex oscillatory system and you generally want to tease it out little by little. It's yoga for the nervous system - you wanna stretch a little in each direction and allow the tension to release, not bend yourself all the way over in the opposite direction until you snap. I also think just limiting ourselves to the frequency domain and bandpowers is not optimal. There are many other metrics we could use to train.
Sorry to hear this , it does not sound the Neuro feedback that we do , their a lot of ways to do Neuro feedback you need to find a clinician with minimum 15 years experience This system was created by NASA for their Astronauts when they return from space They all recover and that is why this system was decided to go to the the general population for they can use it
I have tried also Neurofeedback, had 14 trainings and what happened is that I cannot sleep anymore. It is so frustrating I do not know what to do, it is been lasting for 4 weeks. The therapist keeps saying, that this is not from Neurofeedback. What have you done to overcome the symptoms? Many thanks..
I stopped it. I then had 4 weeks of further symptoms before they gradually passed. I only had 4 sessions so hopefully by stopping now you too will return to normal. The comment below is quite helpful on this too
Thank you for sharing. I hope you are doing better now. After seeing how neurofeedback is done, I'll stay away. I rather spend a few more years with somatic and limbic retraining and earn my healing Vs possibly having a massive setback because I wanted to shortcut it. Appreciate your share. It helped me decide. Be well ❤
My therapists recommended this treatment but after seeing your video I will respectfully decline any further talk on this subject of Neurofeedback with them. Thank you
I did 30 sessions of Neurofeedback. The only result that I got from the sessions was my accuracy in basketball, In the beginning I was getting 10 out of 10 shots from the 3 point line for a month or so. Currently my accuracy is still better than before I started the treatments.
It takes an artist to properly use this treatment successfully. I have never watched a movie and had someone do bio feed back. It is very dangerous in the wrong hands. I have had a profound posiitive experience. I do how ever understand why you did not and feel so sorry this happened to you when this has the abilty to be a powerful positive experience.I hope you get the good kind of help you need.
This video came up right after watching the ad video I received in an email invitation to try this therapy. From what I can tell. Its a feedback loop of electrical signals that mirror the brains activity. Great, they managed to make my greatest pet peve of telling me what to do while I'm doing it 😅 Nightmare made reality!
Biofeedback is awesome....it has been around since 1960's. You learn to self- regulate. I did it in 1990 and was great then studied it and worked successfully with mire than 3000 people. You might be selling another program?
I have had the same experience but maybe worse. I started IASIS microcurrent neurofeedback in January and did 6 sessions, I stopped because I felt it was making my anxiety, insomnia and ruminating thoughts worse. Well I should have stopped there. Instead I went back in April hoping to start again and I have done four sessions and it’s been pure hell. Anxiety through the roof, disassociation, depression, massive insomnia.. I don’t sleep. I am so sacred that I’m stuck like this.. I have stopped all sessions and won’t go back, but what does one do to combat these awful side affects that won’t go away? HELP!!
Hi - how are you now? Any improvements? After I stopped it took a while to get better but I'm really happy to say that for the most part, aside from some tinnutus I'm better. It was just time that healed it for me, so I'm not sure what to advise. Would it be worth looking at a EEG test as one of the comments suggests below? It might help to unearth what has gone wrong but I realise you may not be comfortable at all with going back to a NF practitioner. Also I'd say post this on reddit
I would try smoking cannabis, or maybe even psychedelics if you can find pure ones. I know it sounds crazy, but substances like that rewire the brain and can most likely help in the scenario you're in. I would definitely try weed first though. If you've never smoked before, I would try it out once or twice and see if that helps. It has helped me rewire my brain in the past when I needed it. I think it's really underestimated how quickly it can make you feel better and have lasting effects of that too. Nobody should use weed to cope and everybody who does choose to use it should use it in moderation or as little as possible. But I highly recommend it if you feel as though you need to "fix" your brain after neurofeedback. Thank you for your feedback on it, non pun intended lol. I was thinking about trying neurofeedback but I'm not going to after this. I feel like my brain is in good condition for what I want in my life right now.
I have add overfocus which was miss diagnosed with CPTSD. Also OCD. CBT cognitive behavior therapy worked for me. Because I'm add overfocused of course I would be inclined to get to the bottom of the meaning of the CBT. lol Much like CPTSD but probably more accurate. And now I have worries. I just don't worry about it anymore. Now when I'm not shifting focus. I literally say forget about. It's like having a magic wand. I'm no different. Because I still masking a Nero divergence. But I have the emotional intelligence I was once lacking.
Hi, I have had 7 sessions of NFB but in a different form and with 'scientists' and I have terrible pain in my head and chest. I intend to stop the treatment as you did. I have been addicted to benzo medication for about 25 years and I have withdrawn from it from August 2021 until August 2022. I guess I still have pains due to this but NFB made it seemingly worse...
Huh, sounds anecdotal. I think any treatment falls under the advice of try it and if it doesn’t work move on. Drugs, therapy, LSD, etc, all fall under the same thing and yet you pick out this as an outlier. I’m positive you’ve changed meds because they didn’t work.
