Why I left the UMC & how it went down 

that seemed odd to me also. The dividers should leave.

Oh, that is rich. I run a group advocating more for separation from wayward church organizations. We are primarily a Lutheran group, but I sent them this video as it seems relevant even to Lutherans stuck in the ELCA.

Lol. ELCA is insane. I don’t blame anyone who’s left. I feel for the folks who are still fighting the good fight for the Gospel there. God bless them in that difficult fight.

Cont father Johnny white Ford an orthodox priest wx Nazarene minister I think you would like it when unstood

I understand. how you feel because I feel the same way. It is heartbreaking. I first attended a a Methodist church when I was 6 months old.1 accepted Christ and was baptized in a United Methodist church. I have been a member in 3 United Methodist churches. My church just disaffiliated from the UMC because we have a traditional view of Scripture and what a church should be. Being a Methodist for 65 years, this is new for us, and we trust God to lead us where He wants us to be. It is exciting and a little scary at the same time.

Your looking for a religious experience. I'm looking for a spiritual experience.

Just curious, what resources did you study as you left SDA.

@@raymondmcinturff3952 Very long story and all happened before the advent of the internet. I was in a bookstore and picked up Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin, founder of the Christian Research Institute. Much of the appendix was about SDA. In it, he referred to an out of print book: The Truth about 7th Day Adventism. It took me over 2 years to find a copy of that book. Of course these led to other resources and caused me to re-evaluate what I had always been taught. I learned a lot and still am learning. I can give you many other resources if you care to give me your email address.

Yes, as a matter of fact I almost went in to all this in our conversation, but then got "side tracked" by some internet connection problem we were having; but I think it may have been just as well, since I was not really prepared to give a thought-out overview of the whole thing at that point.

❤

@@bobjenkins3rd I agree!

@@amyk6403, I realize that I'm weighing in months after the fact, but having grown up as a Methodist you might given Anglicanism a look as well. The Diocese of the Upper Midwest of the Anglican Church of North America (a conservative Anglican body) has a few parishes/congregations in the Minneapolis area. The Global Methodist Church also has a few congregations in that area as well. And faithful Lutheranism is also an option, as you point out. I recommend looking for Missouri Synod (LCMS) parishes or parishes of the North American Lutheran Church (NALC). The LCMS is the more conservative of the two and is strongly confessional. The NALC is also confessional but more moderate on the issue of women's ordination. They are conservative on human sexuality. The NALC is in full communion with the Anglican Church in North America.

@@toddgranger1002 Thanks for weighing in! I appreciate the tips. I'm still "home churching" at the moment; a small online fellowship of women. I've thought about Anglicanism, as well. I kind of like "high church," as weird as that sounds. 😉

@@amyk6403, given your description of yourself, I think you would find a parish in the ACNA Diocese of the Upper Midwest or in the NALC to be a solid church home.

I'm Baha'i. I'll pray for this very articulate man and his young family too!

Very well said.

... as have the Presbyterian Church USA - My church SUCCESFULLY left with assets intact.

"if the Conference shifts to a more progressive stance" is still head in the sand. It is only a matter of time that the UMC leadership will push down its progressive views to the local churches. A leadership that takes a vow knowing full well they are already violating the BOD or intend to cannot be held in esteem and I will not fund them with my tithes. * Ever notice that the more progressive things become the more dangerous it is for children?

@@MrErpman Here's the thing, it hasn't yet. I know that could change any time, I'm not living in fear of it. As far as switching to the GMC....well, what I've seen of them doesn't sit well. The services I've seen have been more Pentacostal than Methodist.

@@dadboss3919 I understand. It will take a while for the GMC to really establish its "atmosphere" and will surely be more Pentecostal in the early stages but I believe it will moderate over time. A church leaving the UMC may be better served being independent for a while although that has some risk. Unfortunately, there are no easy answers.

Thank you for telling your story Daniel. My wife and I left the UMC and joined Asbury Church in Tulsa, OK. They disaffilated with a vote of 96%+. We are praying that they remain independent since we can see no benefit of joining the GMC. If they do affiliate affiliate with another Methodist denomination we will be looking for another independent church. These denominations tend to turn a church into a business and I don't feel that is God's plan.

Some will say that "independent Methodist church" is a contradiction in terms, since Methodism is historically connectional in structure. In our case, we are historically Methodist/United Methodist and - having left the UMC - we continue to preach and teach Methodist/Wesleyan theology, use forms of liturgy and hymnody that are familiar to Methodists, but do not currently have a denominational connection. There is, however, an "Association of Independent Methodist Churches" (AIM) that is a very loose association or connection that some former UMC churches are joining as well to share resources for ministry and some accountability, without being fully "plugged into" a denomination, so I guess the question would be "how much connection counts as 'connectionalism'?"

Glad to have you in the conversation; you are certainly right that folks on all "sides" have behaved badly from place to place. It is sad to see hardening hearts and the "grasping spirit" among folks who believe the in the things and the God we profess in the ancient Creeds: over-abundant and far more than all we could possibly ask or imagine, forever and ever. We need not be "grasping," but trusting.

I see my departure from my former UMC, now disaffiliated, as a blessing from God, precipitated by this schism. My new pastor at the UMC where I'm now a member advised me to "Just let it go." For the most part I have, but I was a part of that church, off and on at least, for over 50 years. It was difficult to leave without some regret. I'm trying hard that it not be bitter regret. The new church is larger and a lot more "high church" Methodist, at least at the service I attend, as opposed to the previous church that has dwindled in number over time and whose services have degenerated into a happy-clappy hymn sandwich garnished with praise choruses, which I tolerated while hoping for better. I can't fault people for their worship style if it is sincere, and I admit my own bias, but sometimes I wonder if many "contemporary" worship services sacrifice substance for entertainment value. I might be guilty of formalism, but there is something lacking when you can't recall the last time the Creed was recited and the Great Thanksgiving is replaced with "It is time for Communion." Worship should be joyful without being sloppy. Lex orandi, lex credendi. Sorry if this sounds like a long-winded rant. It probably is, but it sure feels good to get it out.

@@jeffreyulrich3592CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien both, in different places, try to describe a celebration that is both solemn, beautiful, and joyous all at the same time. That is what I hope our liturgical celebrations will be, whatever music is included - but definitely for Christians we should not neglect the Creed or the Great Thanksgiving or the Lord's Prayer on Sundays.

Keeping Torah??

@@taylormills9206 Yes brother, there were 613 mitvot in Torah prior to Yeshua (Jesus) and the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD by the Romans. There are approximately 300 mitzvot that are still relevant today with Yeshua as our high priest and blood sacrifice and since the Temple no longer exists. The Temple was the only place animal sacrifices could be performed and where the Levites operated. A silver lining of the decline of my former chuch, the UMC, is that it led me on the journey to begin following Torah and the Living Torah (Yeshua), which has been one of the greatest joys of my life. I would be glad to discuss further if you have any questions. The following passages provide the scriptural basis for Jewish AND Gentile followers of Yeshua to follow the mitzvot that are still in effect in Torah after the death and resurrection of Yeshua and the destruction of the Temple. The passages clearly demonstrate the Jewish followers of Yeshua should follow Torah. An argument could be made, however, that Gentile followers of Yeshua do not need to follow Torah but Paul addresses that argument in Romans 2:12-16 and Romans 3:29-31 Deuteronomy 30:11-19 11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it. 15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Psalms 94:12 NLT Joyful are those you discipline, Lord, those you teach with your instructions. Jeremiah 31:33 NLT 33 “But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days,” says the Lord. “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. Matthew 5:17-20 NLT 17 “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. 19 So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 “But I warn you-unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven! Matthew 7:6-8 NLT 6 Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’[d] 8 For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.” Mark 7:1-13 NLT One day some Pharisees and teachers of religious law arrived from Jerusalem to see Jesus. 2 They noticed that some of his disciples failed to follow the Jewish ritual of hand washing before eating. 3 (The Jews, especially the Pharisees, do not eat until they have poured water over their cupped hands,[a] as required by their ancient traditions. 4 Similarly, they don’t eat anything from the market until they immerse their hands[b] in water. This is but one of many traditions they have clung to-such as their ceremonial washing of cups, pitchers, and kettles.[c]) 5 So the Pharisees and teachers of religious law asked him, “Why don’t your disciples follow our age-old tradition? They eat without first performing the hand-washing ceremony.” 6 Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’[d] 8 For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.” 9 Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. 10 For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’[e] and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’[f] 11 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’[g] 12 In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. 13 And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” Luke 16:16-17 NLT 16 “Until John the Baptist, the law of Moses and the messages of the prophets were your guides. But now the Good News of the Kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is eager to get in.[d] 17 But that doesn’t mean that the law has lost its force. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest point of God’s law to be overturned. John 14:15 NLT 15 “If you love me, obey my commandments. Acts 24:14 14 “But I admit that I follow the Way, which they call a cult. I worship the God of our ancestors, and I firmly believe the Jewish law and everything written in the prophets. Romans 2:12-16 NLT 12 When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it. 13 For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight. 14 Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. 15 They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. 16 And this is the message I proclaim-that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life. Romans 3:29-31 NLT 29 After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. 30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.[j] 31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law. Romans 7:7-13 NLT 7 Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.”[a] 8 But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power. 9 At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life, 10 and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead. 11 Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me. 12 But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good. 13 But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes. Romans 15:4 NLT Such things were written in the Scriptures long ago to teach us. And the Scriptures give us hope and encouragement as we wait patiently for God’s promises to be fulfilled. Hebrews 8:10 NLT But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,[c] says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. Blessings

The Church is the Traditional Latin Mass. Martin Luther was a revolutionary who split the church. And more recent another attack on the Church was the communist hippy movement in the 1960s. And Vatican ll was another attack but from within. All that is happening is by design. And read the book on the changes of Vatican l to Vatican ll "Lex Orandi" by Daniel Graham

The decline started just prior to the affiliation into the UMC in 1964. Tyrannical power and Uber liberalism was planted and here is what you wind up with. Just like our liberal dominated government.

I am the same, I have been visiting FUMC churches around Arizona. Once I see a female Pastor, I don't return, search goes on.. so far I am still trying to find a Traditional Methodist church

Every denomination, Baptists, etc has their own governance principles. The UMC documents you poo-pooed were an attempt to base the Methodist movement on the Bible. They were not created out of thin air.

Feminism is of the devil! Prove me wrong.

Essentially, many (if not most) of the clergy and especially the bishops and leaders in the USA no longer believe what the Bible teaches about sexual morality, marriage, and a number of other issues (some object to the idea of Jesus being the only way to the Father). The General Conference has now embraced the LGBTQPIA+ agenda and UMC boards and agencies will be training people to accept same-sex relationships. The Churches in Africa and other parts of the world that want to stay true to the Bible will need to decide whether they want to remain a part of the UMC. A few conferences have already voted to leave the UMC, and I suspect there will be many more to follow.

I think the GMC will most likely be very solid - their first real General Conference is in September so we will know with more certainty after that. I do know some former-UMC folks, however, who wanted to choose another group because they do not agree with the ordination of women (particularly as elders/presbyters to pastor churches), and see this as basically a concession to modernism. For folks like that I bet there are some other broadly Wesleyan churches where they could find a good fit; also the ACNA might be a good option for them as well (some diocese ordain women as presbyters/priests; most do not).

The UMC has abandoned the traditional/Biblical view of marriage and sexual morality and embraced a revised view that affirms homosexual behavior and relationships

I have also heard something like that. As I said, sexual morality is not the only issue at play, but a symptom. Those who reject biblical sexual morality, also turn out to be those who also Reject biblical Christology and Biblical injunctions to keep our word when we agree to certain things in our ordinations and so on.

It is worn by all Methodist clergy - but the Catholic and Episcopal priests wear them more often

I know Roman Catholics like to call it a "Roman Collar", but my understanding is that the tab collar I am wearing was designed by a Presbyterian. If you go back to the 1800s, you will see that the precursor to the modern collar is worn by many Protestant clergy - Anglican, Presbyterian, Methodist, even Baptist. I think there is great value - especially in our increasingly "visual" and "icon-using" culture - in wearing a "uniform" or visible expression of my Christian and clergy commitment. Now, I don't wear it all the time - but usually on Sundays and when visiting hospitals or teaching in any 'official' capacity. In practice, it has opened up opportunities for me to pray with strangers in public settings - like hospitals or fast food restaurants - in a way that would not have happened if I were wearing "street clothes."

I never thought about that a collar can open the door to ministry. I am put off by that special type of clothing for clergy. Í do not think Peter, John and James or Paul wear cervical clothes? Only the high priest was to wear special clothes for the service he rendered to God for Israel. Representing Jesus in His ministry. Roman Catholicism through the ages used special clothes to identify clergy. Then Luther used a robe.Later pentecostal and other evangelical preachers/ evangelist used normal attire. I wonder is my attitude toward special clothes for clergy rooted in wrong thinking, wrong attitude?

@@heidibrown997 Thanks for responding. I think that man-made denominations like Methodists copied the design from Roman Catholics.

Leave

What an uncharitable and ridiculous statement. All denominations have their foundational statements or statements of belief which guide their reading of scripture. I absolutely guarantee that is the case with your own church.

Most evangelical churches (non-denominational, Baptist, Assembly of God, Pentecostal, etc.) will teach the Bible with great conviction, and I've grown alot through the ministry of such churches. The main drawback there is that they often teach the Bible disconnected from the wisdom and insights of the whole universal church across the last 2000 years, so this can create some "blind spots" (especially around things like the creeds, the sacraments, and spiritual life). Historic "mainline" Protestant churches (United Methodist, ELCA-Lutheran, Episcopalian, PCUSA-Presbyterian) have historically done a better job in that department, but these are all now significantly infected by revisionist theology (you can find good churches/pastors in all of those groups, but you will also find those that deny Christ's divinity, or his resurrection or miracles, etc). The same thing is apparently becoming a problem in (at least some circles of) Roman Catholicism, which also has some other problems with its hierarchy. Your our best bet is more traditional historic Protestant groups: Global Methodist Church instead of the UMC; a Confessional Lutheran group instead of the ELCA; the Anglican Church in North America instead of the Episcopal Church; a confessional Presbyterian church instead of the PCUSA. These churches will consistently teach Biblical, creedal, evangelistic, and historically-rooted Christianity that our ancestors would recognize. For my part (as you'll see in a future video) I am soon to be ordained in The Anglican Church in North America.

Thank you Pastor for your information I stopped attending church quite a few years ago I read my Bible my devotionals and practice my spiritual faith and remain my covenant with God.But I was a Sunday school teacher for years but I couldn’t attend a church or teach for a church that didn’t follow the word of our Lord or and the Bible. God bless you and your family 2024 new year new start

Presbyterian PCA

Hello; thanks for the comment. Yes, I've been wearing a collar for years as a UMC pastor. I am not a member of the GMC. I think they are doing good work, but I am pursuing ordination in the Anglican Church in North America. I've got a video coming soon with details and a bit of my thinking on that.

In a reductionist culture that tries to express so many big things in 140 characters or less, when dialogue is reduced to slogans, I think there is actually great virtue in sounding out some of the nuances and ambiguities because life is complicated. But at the same time, I understand why the length of this video in particular is a bit daunting. If I had filmed it a couple of more times, or spent a few hours editing it, I probably could have gotten a bit shorter but, as someone once said, "I didn't have time to be brief"

@@danielhixon8209 It's not that the video length is daunting, it's that you came out with the same trite, debunked, intellectually dishonest arguments. that most American preachers do, and I can't be bothered to listen to the same fallacious arguments yet again for over and hour. No one in Egypt shares the religion of the people who built the pyramids, but they're not going to knock them down because of that, despite being a Muslim country, because it's part of their cultural identity and heritage. They're proud of them. Europe is not the US and we have a very different relationship to religion, the majority of us are atheists, but if someone proposed burning down the cathedrals we'd say no, like the Egyptians, they're works of art, living museums sitting in our cities free for everyone to look at and go inside and take photographs.