I'd like to disagree with you: The F1 (offspring of two "stable" parents), aka simple cross, is very stable with no real detectable differences. So stable, it's as dependable in phenotype as an OP. The reason why there are so many hybrids is because seed companies do not need to patent/PVP the variety. All they have to do is keep the "stable" parents secret and cross to get that same exact "Big Beef" or "Bella Rosa" F1 hybrid. The diversity STARTS in the F2--selfing the F1. That's when you'll want to grow out lots of plants. This is what I do (am a breeder): In a simple cross, I cross two stable parents, grow 5 or so F1 plants. More plants is a waste of time and a person needs to be educated on it to prevent that waste of time should they desire to breed vegetables. I self the F1 plant that's the most vigorous. That seed is F2 and I grow out a whole lot of that seed. I'm growing 100 F2 plants now of what I'm explaining. F2 is where the action is and where the main selection should be. At F2, you are 75% stability of what you see (phenotype) in each individual plant. Select one (or many in my case) of those F2 plants that are the best out of all those plants. Each selfing afterwards solidifies the stability by 50% until F7/F8 (debatable) when it's so-called stable (OP) or greater than 99.9% (ish) stable. We could get into double-hybrid crosses, hybrid-OP crosses, and more. In those cases, F1s will have some diversity because the parents weren't "stable". I like those types of crosses in my work too. It's notable to also say that lots of desired recessive genes show up the highest in F2 at roughly 25%. Mendel discovered this with peas some time ago. So, recessive genes express 0% in F1, 25% in F2, 12% in F3 and so on. But, the magic is when they do, they are immediately stable from F2-OP. An example is potato leaf vs regular leaf. If you see a potato leaf at F2, it will be there every generation after if selfed. Colors other than red are recessive (in degrees). My parthenocarpic tomato gene is recessive. At F3 and later, the chances of getting that elusive recessive gets much harder. Too hard really to consider. Recessives are awesome. I'm just putting this out there in case you, or anyone who reads this and may be interested in breeding, will have some clarification. My opinion on OPs are that the taste profiles were the focus of almost all of their breeding for a very long time which is why they have such a following...including me. I always use OPs to inject better taste profiles. The focus for most hybrids is disease resistance, plant structure (processing), and to a smaller degree taste. Ag-guys know what sells. Bottom dollar you know. Edit: I've tried and trialed most of the hybrids you show. I like one of them compared to tons of heirloom/OPs out there, but you are right, there's a sacrifice in production or disease pressure quite often.
Very interesting! I think plant breeding would be cool to do. I just bought a Burpee Hybrid zucchini plant and saw other plants at the store listed as hybrid or as F1 (like some kale). I decided to stay away from them because I wasn't certain what that entailed. I understand the basics of genetics but I don't know the crosses and stuff the growers used, so how do I know what I'm getting? (Some of the Kalen plants were literally just labeled "F1 Kale.") I also want to save the seeds and wasn't sure if that would be wise with these hybrids. I thought that when plants cross-pollinated, the current plants aren't affected but seeds saved and grown the next year may not grow true, so they seemed like not the kinds of plants for me. Was I correct in this? I also wonder if nurseries offload their mishaps and unwanted plants on the unsuspecting people at the grocery store...
@@MadCheshireHat gmos are illegal still for public sale to much money being made on the patents . I’ve had no issues but one with hybrid seeds, I had one plant that wasn’t as tasty with my tomato’s I’ve used them for years until a few years ago when RU-vidrs scared me away from hybrid as. If it’s gmo 🤦♀️ but in fact hybrid is cross pollination that nearly everyone has unless they grow only one type acres apart an the wind an the bees or insects etc can’t cross pollinate it will be a hybrid
To me the heirloom types have that great flavor I am looking for, I grow predominantly heirlooms, I grow the ones I like and being an heirloom would never stop me from growing heirloom
Heirloom is healthier, too. I recently watched a show where they tested the heirloom varieties and hybrid varieties and the heirloom have much higher nutrients. If I wanted a lower nutrient tomato with less flavor, I would just buy them at the grocery store.
@@aquaseahorselove3939 A tomato is a tomato buddy. They all have different concentrations of nutrients depending on the variety. There are heirlooms with lower nutritional value and hybrids with higher, and vise versa. Considering there are literally tens of thousands of different tomato types all over the world it's such a blanket statement to say "heirlooms are healthier". Go ahead and believe the "science" you saw on tv but the presenter was most likely just picking specific heirlooms with high nutrimental value and pitting them against hyrids on the other end of the spectrum.
The price of hybrid seed for everything is very expensive the past few years. There are heirloom varieties that will do well in more challenging zones. We need to support our farmers who grow out and maintain the open pollinated varieties for genetic diversity, the ability to save your own seed and not have to rely on the companies who will shortly take over control of seeds. If your heirlooms cross pollinate you just might end up with some good strong seed that does well in your climate.
Preservation of heirlooms is imperative because more and more F1's are being propagated and if heirlooms are not grown with their seed collected and then sold on, seed companies are going to have total control over our the worlds seeds and therefore food supplies. Just look at what Monsanto have done to see into the future of what will happen if we do not keep the open pollinated seeds going.
My approach is to start plants from seed, that do well in south FL. That way, they do great here in NC. Once I get what I like, I take cuttings around Halloween and overwinter them indoors. I can perpetuate clones this way, plus I have plants over four feet tall already (I only grow indies).
Excellent video. You're great at explaining somewhat complex or misunderstood concepts/ideas. Hybrids have gotten a bad name among some "organic" gardeners I know, and yet their tomatoes won't survive any type of pest pressure or adverse weather. Also the examples you give allows us as viewers to target some of those varieties, esp. when here in FL we get the extremes like you do. Thanks again! Jim
I'm happy to hear that! It's always frustrated me that some organic gardeners are down on F1 hybrids. F1 hybrids are how Mother Nature strengthens the species - it's the most natural thing. I don't understand how some growers can try and talk growers out of it. If you're a seed-saver, F1's aren't from you, but that's such a tiny portion of gardeners. The way you get people to start gardening is by making it easier, and F1 hybrids are much less challenging and more fruitful. Talking new gardeners into growing challenging heirlooms leads to gardeners quitting, and that's the last thing we want to see!
The strongest tomatoes that can grow im your garden are honestly the direct seeded or volunteer ones, in my experience self seeded plants are simply immune to pest pressure compared to transplants
Exceptional video. I’m trying Cherokee Carbon F1 this year but Sungold and big beef are the only two F1 tomatoes I normally grow. As good as Big Beef is, it isn’t as good as a mediocre true heirloom. But I grow it as a fail safe. Because it is. Sungold is in a league of its own so will always grow. . I’m also in a hot and humid area and fight EB every year. BTW, Sungold is actually very susceptible and struggles to make it to Fall. But how can you not grow heirlooms like Prue, KBX, Wes, CP, and BW Sudduth. Is t there best tasting tomatoes the goal here. I can by all the chef’s choice I can eat at the farmer’s market. If I had your setup. I would grow to a single vine 2 plants each of a different variety of heirloom. You would get loads of tomatoes that will make you weak kneed to eat. When they die from disease you’ll still have plenty tomatoes that haven’t. I grow 30 plants and keep my extended family and friends with tomatoes through September. Also, the art of selecting and saving seeds is a major part of the fun. Years down the road you could have Brandywine Millennial Garden Strain that people clamber for.
Anthony; your videos are just crazy good. You are incredibly efficient, knowledgeable, patient, thorough and openminded. I especially appreciate the way you stage your photoshoots across weeks and months to show the results of your projects; even the biggest gardening channels aren't that organized. Your skillset is so valuable I honestly wish I could download your brain into mine! My one quibble with your channel is your camera. Nikon rules, damn it! :)
Thank you! I really appreciate that. I'm an engineer by trade, so it's sort of my job to be organized. I genuinely love doing this, so staging the experiments over months to catch the results are fun. I have a no-till experiment in progress, a fig growing experiment in progress, and a few more tricks up my sleeve for the fall. Thanks for your support and generosity. I really appreciate it. As for the camera, I go with the Sony mirrorless, because the cameras are so small and compact. DSLR's are too big and heavy. My only qualm is the camera doesn't have internal image stabilization, and to go full-frame with the internal image stabilization is just way more than I could afford at the time. Maybe as the channel grows; I've already gone through 2 different cameras to upgrade the quality with growth 😄
@@TheMillennialGardener Aha; I knew you were a technical fellow. Most of the big gardening channels are run by people with degrees in like... music and political science (not to impugn those fine pastimes). You can tell in the way they approach horticultural pedagogy--too haphazard and disorganized. I'm telling you--you really have the best gardening channel on YT, and the material for an incredible book or other physical resource. Which got me to thinking; if you were to release all of your videos on a thumb drive as a "prepper" resource, I would happily pay for it, and so would a lot of other people. There's a huge amount of paranoia about the possibility of a "grid-down" situation, and a single resource that pulls everything together like your video playlist would be an incredible boon to those of us who are preparing for the worst. I've blown an insane amount of money on solar power, water purification, gardening tools and seed packs in advance of what may be coming. I'm a math/computer science guy myself, and a professional 3d animator among other things. I only mentioned Nikon because I've been using their cameras for a quarter century now, and they really are the best. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you. I'd be happy to craft a cool animated intro for the show as a piece of fan art if that would help the channel!
Very helpful information. I live in Wilmington, NC and have struggled to grow tomatoes. I get good production in the first few months, but when the heat and humidity hit, they take a major setback. I will try some of your recommendations
I live a couple hours north of you and have experienced the same thing. I start tomatoes in the house 2x each spring. I cover one of my raised beds with a plastic greenhouse and add heat with 5gal bucket and aquarium heater. I try to have the first tomatoes in 2 weeks before last frost date. I have later started plants incase my first attempt fails.
A few miles south of you & same story. Early summer burst of production then mid-summer decline. Living up north, late summer-autumn meant tons of tomatoes. I expected better here in the south, lots of sunshine & rain, but no - very disappointed. But learning that choosing the right tomato is everything. Some trial & error, but mostly advice from local fellow gardeners now. 👍
@@striperswiper1 Thanks for the tip. I am going to experiment this summer planting fast-growing determinant tomatoes indoors in Jully then translating outdoors in September
Tomato pollination will cease in most varieties when temps eclipse 90 in day and 70 at night. Basically, most tomatoes become sterile here early June through early September. All that will grow are cherry types and a handful of heat-bred selections, but with greatly reduced yields. We need to plant in late March here, protect them from frost and hand pollinate in April and May to have great harvests. This 2 videos will help you tremendously: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-x2zoorfpZ50.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-p-rlucSV1Oo.html
Excellent explanation. I moved to Southeast Texas from Nebraska and it took a few years to understand that heirlooms don't grow well here. This year I'm growing Bella Rosa, Homestead, Rio Grande, and Floridade.
It's taken me several years to figure out how to grow tomatoes here, too. Growing them in NJ and PA where I used to live is a piece of cake by comparison, and boy do we struggle here with the summer rain. If you want to give two heirlooms a shot, try German Johnson and Arkansas Traveler. The production and disease resistance of Arkansas Traveler is pretty amazing. It's more vigorous and prolific than most hybrids, and it produces in 93 degree heat with sweltering nights. It's a beast of a plant.
I think it's a matter of finding the variety that works for your area. That's super, super tricky, especially since I think most large online nurseries (where I have to shop) are geared towards Midwestern growing experiences. I had a similar experience to you moving from Kentucky to Texas. It was a mind-blower to realize that most of favorites just couldn't cut it in the Texas hell country. (And no, that wasn't a typo -- this place is a freaking desert, if you ask me.) That said, there ARE heirlooms that work here -- Cherokee Purples *will* grow if you start them early enough and put them in the right spot -- but IMO, you're better off in Texas sticking with cherry or grape tomatoes. I've tried the hybrids recommended for here by Texas A&M and I could just as well have bought the fruit from the grocery store, it was so bad. (I'm still irked I wasted dirt on Early Girls and Celebrity. What an overhype!)
Thanks for explaining this. I like growing hybrids but it's not economical because I would like to be able to save seed. I guess I'll have to keep a couple packs of Heirloom seeds stashed in case times get too hard to purchase seeds again.
@@zia_kat that would take time and experimentation. If I would have had the foresight years ago, I may have perfected a few varieties for my particular area. Danny at Deep South Homestead did. But alas, after the Great Seed Shortage not more than 2years ago combined with the warnings of Climate changes,,,???
@@Shortcake39553 i kind of did it unintentionally with some cherry tomatoes by just neglecting volunteers that sprouted from my compost. they've been coming back for 5 years. i'm old but i still look at gardening as a long game endevor.
I hate cracks and hybrids tend to be less cracked 🙃 I got every chef's choice on your recommendation except I couldn't find orange. You had such good success with them last year that I decided to go for a successful year this year. Here's to a crackless summer!!!
Good morning Steve. Heirloom tomatoes can only tolerate successive planting in the same bed about two years. At two years you need to move your heirloom beds every few years to avoid disease that establish in your original bed. Hybtrid tomatoes can grow year after year in the same bed without disease. Granted heirlooms don't produce heavy, but they do give beautifully tasting fruits. On a different topic, my Golden Riverside fig is loaded with figglets. Just coming out of dormancy here in TX Hill Country
Great video. I have switched to growing mostly modern hybrids myself. And succession planting determinates makes up a big part of my tomato growing now. Tomato breeding programs have came a long way in the past 20 years. The flavor is every bit as good or better than a lot of heirlooms.
I agree. Tomatoes r tricky in my area of Texas. Heat is the enemy. I quit growing late season and heirlooms cause the bloom drops in the high humidity and heat. Not worth wasting the time, space and money.
@@beverlyboyce1041 determimate tomatoes are miles easier to grow in Texas, however in my experience it is possible to grow indeterminate tomatoes, but it is no walk in the park I'm afraid.
I throw veggie scraps during the winter into my garden patch. One spring I let a volunteer tomato plant grow to maturity. The fruit appeared to be an over-sized Roma. I harvested a few of them to see how they would taste. Well, they tasted like the men's restroom smells three days after a Led Zeppelin concert - not kidding...! They were horrible.. I should have saved some to give to the neighbors as a gag (no pun intended) gift.. 🙂
We are just starting out and you cover everything we need to grow, appreciate your info so much, you are so dedicated. Happy gardening from Austral, N S W. Australia
Oh my gosh you made the video I’ve been praying someone big would make!! I left you a comment earlier about this lol 😂 I’ve made videos on it but I have a newer channel unfortunately my former channel I lost I had no idea the power of RU-vid an starting over is not easy 😳🤦♀️ thank you I can now share this with everyone I know oh my gosh I am so happy finally someone not here to grift you’re the real deal!! 🥳 woohoo
Got 50 Bella Rosa going in the ground soon. Very impressed last year. They stood straight and tall almost two feet before they were braced. Stayed inside a five foot T-post. Really looked like I knew what I was doing. Also trying Roadster. SS100 and SunGold on the side. Hope there's not too much rain again this year. One big reason for heirloom popularity is the obvious movement toward government tyranny.
I do the same thing. I grow just a handful of heirlooom favorites, but hybrids today have gotten so good that there is no longer taste loss. No consequences for gardeners like me to grow hybrids 😊
The only reason I watched your channel was for heirloom info. I live on the Canadian prairies where it is usually very conducive to growing heirliims. We don't have the disease and bugs that you have. I plant what I think will taste great no worries about didease. All about the flavor. Too bad as I was enjoying your channel.
Wow! That's great info that answered a lot of my questions! ( : Thanks! ( : Like you suggested I am growing mostly determinant tomatoes for my pasta sauces. Our heat get to be too much for plants that take a long time to ripen their fruits. Give Dale a pat from me! ( :
I'm glad it was helpful! I was anti-determinate for many years. Why? I have no idea. Stubbornness, I think. Well, I've changed my ways and I've fully embraced them. They are a joy to grow. So much easier in so many ways. I'm looking forward to this Margherita Hybrid roma-type I'm growing this year. Dale says hi!
Thank you for pointing out that the SEEDS are the result of the cross, the fruit that was pollinated by another plant will still look like the parent plant it’s growing on. If you plant a super hot pepper next to a sweet or mild pepper it’s not going to make the fruit on those mild peppers hot, but if you save the seeds from that mild plant without isolating the cross, it could make the next generation hotter if there was crossing between the mild/sweet with the super hot pepper, but if you have no intent on saving the seeds it doesn’t matter. There also seems to also be a myth circulating that you can’t save the seeds at all from a hybrid or F1, but you definitely can. As you mentioned with stabilization, it’s going to be a gamble what that tomato looks like, even is self pollinated, but you will definitely get a tomato. I’ve historically had excellent luck with tomatoes in northern New England, but large slicers are harder for me because of our short season (and animals seem to love them). I am going a few heirlooms, as well as several newer stabilized open pollinated from Wild Boar, and Hybrids (Chefs choice varieties at your recommendation).
Exactly. There is a lot of confusion and myths out there when it comes to pollination and cross-pollination. The original crop is not affected. Yes, you can save any seed, but the question is - will it grow true? When you do what I do and grow 25 different varieties of tomatoes next to each other, it isn't 100% reliable to save any seed, even from the heirlooms, because there is so much potential for cross-pollination. If all you want is to grow tomatoes, you can save any seed. Volunteer cross-pollinated seeds are just as edible and delicious, usually. But if you want to preserve lineage, you really need to grow your plants spread out to minimize cross-pollination and limit the varieties you grow.
Thank you. I have never grafted tomatoes before. My struggle is mostly due to pollination, which is a limitation of the tomato pollen itself at high temperatures we experience here. Grafting will not solve that problem, unfortunately.
I bought some grafting tubes to do just what you just mentioned - I wanted to graft an heirloom scion to a hybrid cultivar. However, it is my understanding that the bacterial wilt will enter into the hybrid root and then into the heirloom stalk. I didn't bother to try this as the grafting takes a bit of work. You can try growing your heirlooms tomatoes in 5 gallon buckets - dirt free. Get a bale of peat moss and cow manure/mushroom compost. Mix equal parts along with vermiculite/perlite. Stake the plant by drilling two sets of holes on the bucket's side and using U posts as the stake. Those green U posts are available at HD and Lowe's in the outdoor fencing top section. If the plant gets higher than the 5 feet (or so) metal U post you can zip tie a regular wooden tomato stake (or whatever) to the top of the U post for added height. Be sure to mix time-release fertilizer into the peat moss "cocktail". BTW - container plants will need more fertilizing than in-ground plants. I also re-use my container "grow cocktail" several times over. Just "refresh" it with more manure/mushroom compost. I grow my Japanese variety eggplants in containers as they are quite susceptible to bacterial wilt - plus the fruit grown this way is beautiful compared to the so-so in-ground grown fruit. Good luck....!
This is great information I always wondered why Heirloom was the varieties that most people grow? I mean they are good but not the only seeds available I will expand what I grow this year to other seeds.
Heirlooms are fashionable right now, and a lot of organic gardeners spread an anti-hybrid bias. I think there is a bit of a 'superiority complex' to growing heirlooms, and it's unfortunate, because it convinces new gardeners to often try the hardest to grow varieties. That leads to struggling, and struggling leads to people wanting to give up. In short, try lots of varieties in your climate, because what does well somewhere won't do well somewhere else. It's taken me about 100 different varieties to find a dozen that do well where I live, but every year, I build more and more successes. It's fun! I've found the Chef's Choice line to be amazing, since you get "heirloom fruit" from disease resistant, productive plants with stalks like tree trunks! They're tough as nails.
Every year, I buy a few heirloom tomatoes at small markets or farmers markets and I have yet to be impressed by one. Any of them at all. It just doesn't make any sense for me to grow a variety that isn't as disease resistant, isn't as productive, and doesn't give me tomatoes that I enjoy more than the hybrids we grow every year. We grow Bodacious (beefsteak), Gladiator (paste), and Cherry Baby (cherry) hybrids, and when I taste a tomato I enjoy more, I'll consider switching, but after over a decade of trial and error, these are our favorites, and yes, they're all hybrids.
It is illegal to sell GMO seeds to individuals. They are not for sale by any seed company. It is tightly controlled and only professional farmers who sign a contract with the manufacturer purchase the seeds in large scale, very specific farming. People need to stop worrying that they are going to get gmo seeds. I agree with you about heirlooms. I will always grow a couple because I love the taste but I use hybrids for making sauce, salsa, bruscheta, etc. that I can. Also to make sure I get a good supply throughout the summer for our use. There are some great tasting hybrids.
Charleston has some of the worst humidity in the entire country. Most heirlooms would do very poorly in Charleston. In that climate, hybrid determinate varieties produce best yields.
I don't have a ton of experience with canning and paste tomatoes, so I'm not the best person to ask. I'm trying to learn and get into that. This year, I'm growing Margherita Hybrid, which is a highly disease resistant Roma-type from Tomato Growers. It's supposed to be excellent for canning, so I'm going to give it a try. For high production, I can vouch for Celebrity and Bella Rosa. They are large, perfect-looking, super productive, highly disease resistant varieties. I have made them into fresh puree for sauce and they're great. They aren't as thick as a paste-type Roma or San Marzano, though. They're a beefsteak slicer, but can also be used for canning.
Your video is very informative ! Let’s be real though. Your geographic location is the baseline. Not the types or varieties. It’s all relative to what your looking for in your tomato plant and what your looking for overall.
I respect the decision. Disease and pests also plague my warmer and drier climate, though to a lesser extent. Just got inspired by you to grow with a vengeance. And I will grow heirlooms too to prove you wrong haha
There are some good, disease resistant, productive heirlooms out there, but they're a small minority. Rather than trying to hunt for them, you can get much better tasting hybrids. For example, Arkansas Traveler is a very productive, disease resistant heirloom, but the taste is nothing compared to a Brandy Boy, Chef's Choice variety or Celebrity, and they're all F1's. If you want the best tasting, most disease resistant varieties out there, they probably won't be heirlooms, unfortunately.
Breed your tomatoes. Collect your own seeds. Grow those. I usually grow one or two traditional heirlooms but they are definitely much more delicate in my zone. I grow them just as a curiosity. There are certain varieties of cherries and other medium tomatoes, some stable, some not, that grow much stronger in my hot and dry zone - took a bunch of experimentation and seed collecting. Definitely, tomatoes bred in my own garden are much happier plants.
Generally good video but a self pollinated plant unless its been selfed for a very long time isnt a clone. In fact one way to help an OP variety is to cross plants obtained from different sources. I enjoy my Crnkovic Yugoslav and Sunset Red Horison open pollinated varieties. I live in MO and have had good luck with regards to disease and pests. Agree with you on heirlooms, I have never had good luck with them and they dont taste any better than my OPs in my opinion. I disagree strongly on GMOs not being safe or having unpredictable effects. DNA is DNA and our bodies generally know what to do with proteins, no matter their source. There is an all purple tomato coming and Id like to grow it. :)
if you cant save the seeds count me out. Ill grow some big boys better boys something like that but im always gonna focus on my heirlooms first bc of seed saving which is way more important than just abt anything else besides a successful harvest. Have my family heirloom seed thats never been spread out weve been growing since the 1800s its a beautiful pink rosey colored tomato. Everyone that tries it says its the best theyve had. They dont say that abt the others ive grown, though they are great too.
Glad it was helpful! Ultimately, 7-8 generations is a rough guesstimate. In reality, things are stabilized when you plant all the seeds and they all grow to look about the same. New varieties are often sold before they're perfectly stabilized, and there is usually some variation, still.
@@TheMillennialGardener Thanks for the feedback. I'm gonna experiment with some F1 Spinach seeds I saved last season to see how much variation I get. I'm guessing it would be less noticeable than say a tomato...
I grow heirlooms, but only once in 20-years did I get a fruit that wasn't true to the original. I read Brandywine cross pollinates easy. And the result of my cross pollination seemed to be a cross of Brandywine and campari: clumps of golf ball sized pink tomatoes.
I've gotten "mislabeled" seed a couple times off the shelf from the big box stores, but I don't think I've ever had an open pollinated or heirloom variety not true "true"-ish. The point I was trying to make is that some heirloom varieties have creeped over long periods of time. I'll give you an example: the original Rutgers variety is known to have changed a bit over the decades, and the Rutgers sold now as an heirloom is somewhat different from the original Cambpell's Soup variety stabilized a century ago. It's still similar, but if you grew seed from 1940 and compared that plant to seed from today, it would be a little off.
My point isn’t to necessarily choose hybrids, but simply to not avoid them. I’ve spoken to many a gardener that will only grow heirlooms, and they suffer for it. If you have found heirlooms that grow well in your location that you love, keep growing them. But if you struggle with them, move onto something more genetically diverse.
@@TheMillennialGardener exactly, i'm not trashing heirlooms in general, just that they haven't worked out for me that well. everyone should grow what works for them.
Excellent info..You hinted of a hybrid with the Cherokee Purple, my fav, but you didn't list what it would be called. The Cherokee is wonderful, but because of the long hot summer in central AZ I only get production up until July. I've tried the celebrity, but it doesn't taste very good to me. The determinate purple cherry bushes do well, but they're not slicers. Mortgage Lifter is the only Heirloom I've had success with here, but it's not purple, so it doesn't have near the taste of the Cherokee. The F2 generation Paul Robinson tastes good and is disease resistant, but it doesn't do well in the heat. Any suggestions for a Purple hybrid that can handle the heat?
I was referring to the Chef’s Choice line. Chef’s Choice Purple is the specific variety. It is similar to Cherokee Purple with 3x production. You can also try Rosella Purple, which is a dwarf variety with incredible fruit. I think it is superior to Cherokee Purple, but it is very heat sensitive and best grown early.
I hear you on that problem. I'm in Texas, so also stupid hot temps and no tomatoes once the temps hit the 90s in June -- just when almost everyone else in the country starts to have tomatoes coming on! I agree, Celebrity is just horrible, as is 444 and Early Girl, all of which are hyped for this area and all of which are just tasteless rocks. Have you tried starting your Cherokees super early and using a cloche? I'm in Texas, and if we start ours at the beginning of March, hold off on putting up the cages for the first few weeks so we can use cloches (we use five gallon Ozarka water bottles with the bottoms cut off) when it gets cold, we get a good crop by June, which is when the temps start getting stupid hot. We also have had some good success with Better Boys. You may also want to think about upside down growing. We love San Marzanos and Romas, but the heat just withers them to nothing. We've had luck putting them in during September, though. Bonus: when they come on, it's a bit cooler and it's not so horrible to stand in the kitchen making sauce and such!
I'm wary of GMO, *however,* random "natural" variations and mutations don't have an edge on 'knowing what they are doing', they are not automatically any better for our health or the planet. Traditionally we irradiated seeds to accelerate random mutations then select the ones we wanted, most of our food today comes from that, it's no better or worse than millennia of "natural" random mutations accept the slow way has more time to be evaluated. Regardless--excellent well considered, educated dialog!
I know you mentioned that you can't save the seeds of F1 hybrids, but I wish you had spent more time on this subject. For some that is very important. The more open pollinated are not used the more that are lost forever. The more seed companies can get you hooked on hybrids the more diversity is lost not gained.
The intent of this video is to simply explain the differences between seed types. It isn’t meant to explain each type in painstaking detail. I think too much emphasis is placed on open pollinated types. Preserving a variety for the sake of preservation isn’t too appealing to me. There are a lot of mediocre types out there that won’t stand the test of time. I’ve had a lot more luck with high quality F1’s than I have OP’s, personally.
There are several huge seed banks that are preserving material. To maintain that material, the majority has to be stable material (OP) because they have to periodically grow out that source material. The material that makes up hybrids include many sources of OP plant material such as wild-type tomato that injects disease resistance for example. Essentially, nature wants to stabilize. In open field, plants will eventually stabilize. Bees going back and forth year after year will generate an eventual stabile OP. It's the lack of the occasional crossing that hurts diversity. Open-seed source initiatives are too important to too many people. It won't be lost for both of those reasons. Hybrids are great and serve a purpose helping people significantly in many cases, but they are major ag money-driven inventions.
I wish I could "like" this 10 times. My husband, who knows nothing about gardening, listened for a minute and said, "This reminds me of pure bred dogs who have tons of health issues." That's why I married him!
It is sort of like that. At the end of the day, it is genetic diversity that makes healthy animals and plants. If we only save a variety or breed based on a quirky trait, we lose diversity. This is how you wind up with misshapen dogs that people think are adorable, but they can hardly walk and/or breathe because we are trying to preserve a destructive recessive gene at their expense 😔 Similarly, with tomatoes, if taste is the objective above all else, you may wind up with a delicious fruit, but the plant could have many recessive genes that harm its ability to survive and adapt.
Yes, gene diversity is important. A lot of breeds, especially the older ones, have nearly gone extinct at some point, so in order to raise up numbers, some inbreeding was done, resulting in a lack of gene diversity and prominent inherited health issues. Other breeds have small gene pools because of location (such as a village or bred only among local farmers, etc.) I had my adopted doberman DNA tested by Embark (with the health add-on to test for breed-specific issues) and it told me his inbreeding ratio, which is quite high. Also, he has a lot of "relatives" who have been found because they were also tested, but that's because they have 80-98% of the same base genes, not necessarily because there's actually any familial relation. Since I adopted him from a shelter after he was a stray, it's extremely likely he was from a backyard breeder, as a responsible breeder would've taken him back if his owners didn't want him (plus he is a double carrier for a blood clotting disorder; a responsible breeder would've tested for this disorder and not bred the parents). Interestingly, cheetahs are similar in that they started to have very poor gene diversity due to inbreeding when the population collapsed, believed to have happened twice. Their poor genetic diversity and poor genes make it difficult for the species to continue (along with, you know, all that humans have done that are the main reason they're endangered). Of course, you do also have breeding for certain traits that can contribute to problems. There's no doubt about that. It's also rather a myth that mixed dogs are healthier than purebreds and there's studies about it. It's just not how genetics work. If I recall this correctly, if a dog with a dominant gene for a disorder breeds with a dog carrying the disorder's recessive gene, then they're more likely to have the disorder with two copies of the gene. I may have the terminology and exact things wrong, it's been a very long time since I studied genetics, but that's the gist of it. Responsible purebred breeders test for genetically known disorders (as well as test hips, elbows, and any other structural issue known to the breed) and don't breed dogs that carry those genes. Mixed bred dogs are largely the result of irresponsible people and "designer breed" fads. They're not DNA tested or have expensive scans done of their hips and anything else. Genetically poor purebreds are the result of irresponsible people and "breeders" who just want to make a profit without any concern to bettering a breed or producing healthy dogs. Unfortunately, we still don't know the genetic markers for a lot of diseases and disorders, so not everything can be tested. But because a disease or disorder is so prominent in a breed, we know it must be genetic. Liver diseases/disorders are prominent in dobermans but we don't know the genetic markers. A breeder may breed healthy, unaffected dogs, but if both dogs turned out to be carriers... The same can happen with mixed breed dogs. A mixed breed of dog can be affected by no genetic condition (but can still carry it) and be healthy. Or it can win the bad-gene lotto, like what happened with the littermates my family had. BOTH ended up with hip dysplasia at relatively young ages; the male also had arthritis by age 4. A lot of people have been shocked when they turned out to be allergic to their doodle because, surprise, a dog that sheds little hair and dander bred to a dog that sheds lots of hair and dander can create puppies that still shed hair and dander! That's just how things work. Typically, you'd need a doodle several generations in to more reliably get the result you want, but even then it can be iffy. Also, far too many doodle "breeders" are in it for the money or fad without any sort of breeding program and interest in establishing one. This turned out to be very long, but I do think it's interesting and did want to address a misconception and provide information someone may find helpful 😅
I think it takes a lot of trial and error to find two varieties that you can cross that yields consistent offspring in the F1 generation. F1’s, at least certain crosses, may be fairly consistent that first generation and experience more creep later as they try to stabilize. I can speak firsthand that F1’s still have a bit of variation, though. I’ve been growing Brandy Boy for probably 7 years, and every year there are differences in plants. If I grow 3 plants from the same packet, all 3 are a little bit different. To this day, the BEST tomato plant I ever grew was a Brandy Boy the summer of 2018. It was the strongest, thickest, most bulletproof tomato plant I’ve ever seen, but the other 2 Brandy Boy’s I grew from the same seed packet struggled that year. That one plant outproduced the other two combined. When you buy a hybrid seed packet, there will be some inconsistencies.
@@TheMillennialGardener yeah I looked it up and I only ceribrally half understand but I guess it brings up more questions how do they control there is a cross when u are dealing with a plant that is "self pollinating...that's an interesting take in on hybrid variations I would think most people would just give them a pass and say it was just the weather different conditions year to year.
I guess "overrated" would depend on how highly you rate heirloom plants, I suppose. I grow them mostly for the novelty, Along With Other types. Sure, I might not be able live off of my heirloom plants, BUT on the other hand *~purple tomatoes~* :D.
When I say "overrated," I mean by how much they're promoted by other gardeners. The truth is, most hybrids are going to outproduce them, and many modern hybrids have competitive flavor, sometimes even superior flavor in the case of something like Chef's Choice Pink. If you enjoy purple tomatoes, look into Chef's Choice Purple. It corrects some of the problems Cherokee Purple has.
A lot of people act as though heirlooms are so much better tasting than hybrids. Not anymore, these days. My favorite tasting beefsteak tomato is still Brandywine Yellow, which is an heirloom, but with newer hybrids like Brandy Boy, it comes so close and is so much more productive it makes them competitive. And, my favorite cherry tomato, Sun Gold, is an F1 hybrid. I've yet to find heirloom cherries as good as SuperSweet 100, Sun Gold and Sun Sugar, all F1's.
@@TheMillennialGardener There is absolutely nothing wrong with hybrids. Heirlooms are difficult to grow if your climate isn’t ideal for growing tomatoes. That’s why hybrids are great for many of us. I only grow 4 heirlooms. Brandywine Yellow, Turkey Creek, San Marzano and Black Cherry. Im also growing Sun Gold, Early Girl, Big Beef, Lucid Gem, Celebrity, Bush Early and Red Snapper this year. Have a great season.
Hybrids are just fine especially if they aren't just bred for hot house or commercial production. A big issue with hybrids is that they are often produced in poor countries, with unsavory labor practices that may or may not include child labor. Also, you are wrong that tomato breeders are just looking at taste and looks- good breeders consider all of the traits. Your whole point is oversimplified... Modern breeding is much more advanced than you are purporting. Regardless, I feel like this video is very specific to growing in environments where tomatoes have fundamental biological issues surviving. I guess it will succeed in getting engagement?
This video is designed to be 15 minutes. Of course, you have to simply concepts so viewers understand them. People don’t want a 60 minute dissertation. They want to know concepts and how to apply them to their garden. We know for certain that when it comes to stabilizing open pollinated tomatoes, disease resistance is the lowest priority. This is evident by how poorly they perform versus hybrids in most cases. Modern breeding, first and foremost, is about taking pretty pictures. What is hot now are stripes and speckles. They take beautiful photos, and photos sell them. Unfortunately, I’ve tried many of these and in almost all varieties I’ve tried, disease resistance was clearly an afterthought. If you want the most disease resistant hybrids, you usually have to look for older varieties, like Celebrity, Big Beef, Bella Rosa, etc. They don’t take the most exciting photos, but boy do they produce!
@@TheMillennialGardener Your take on breeding is just not true, and its a bad opinion that isn't backed up by the facts. The idea that breeders just throw out disease resistance, production and vigor is wrong. You're over generalizing your environmental problems and blaming it on the tomatoes which is misleading to the viewer. Your issues are very specific to your area and you should say as much. Given the amount of rain you receive over the summer I'm not surprised so many tomatoes haven't tasted good for you because its a well known fact that excess water dilutes flavor. The original tomatoes that birthed the modern varieties we grow today are from drier arid subtropical environments with a short wet season. I agree that hybrids get a bad rap and I grow many myself but you're a bit off base with some of your points here. Anyways, I like your videos overall and respect you as a gardener hope you have a good growing season!
FYI, home gardeners cannot buy GMO seeds; you need special licensing. The process of producing GMO plants is too expensive and only sold to and used by commercial farmers.
That is explained in this video. You also cannot buy GMO fruits and vegetables, because you'd be able to save the seed. GMO foods are only found in processed foods so far.
Dissappointed you didnt add in that GMO are illegal for anyone not having the permit to purchase/own/grow those. Also, GMO seeds are basically used for feeding the meat you buy from the grocery store.
This is discussed in the video description. There isn't enough time to cover everything in great detail. These videos are designed to be easy to understand, easily-consumed ~15 minute videos. To put in every shred of information would result in no one watching or digesting the content. If they were longer, people would complain about the length, so you have to find a way to put in as much information as possible without overwhelming viewers.
Really bad thing about GMOs is that they are patented. That is, you can be sued for replanting seeds that come from a GMO tomato. Worse, being sued when you didn't even start out with GMO seeds: i.e. cross pollination.
The home gardener can't get GMO seed now, but oh heck yes, they're protecting GMO work. It's because of the process. Knowing the gene structure of what causes what can be easily modified in a lab so finding those magic changes in the genes is extensive and expensive work. often costing multi-millions. Our food is HUGE business.
You cant save the seeds and expect to get the same tomato! I strongly disagree with you! I have been doing intensive gardening for 45 years. I dont grow 10-15 tomatoes. My all time high was 500 tomato plants. If I wanted to maintain the same varieties then I would not use F1 hybrids. If you dont care to save the seeds from year to year then by all means plant your F1 hybrids. I think that you are misinforming your viewers. Further 7-8 growing seasons is ridiculous to suggest your viewers try to make natural selection with not being able to do so on an educated format! Also tomato seeds are viable for 7 years. Normally I like your videos, but this one is a gross misrepresentation of reality.
For the first time since I've been subscribed to your channel, I have to disagree with you: this video is neither random nor rambling. It's a clear explanation of the processes involved and of the differences in tomatoes that so many people argue over. Because I'm not especially bright, I always leaned toward 'heirloom' as 'pure', when, with a little thought, I should have seen was misleading. While they are 'pure' genetically, they carry all the flaws of the parent. Hybrid tomatoes, just like humans, are a better, more natural way to grow tomatoes, and it's because of your explanation that I now understand. GMO, while not necessarily "bad," are manufactured and we just don't understand enough yet for me, at least, to trust them. That, too, comes from your explanation. Once again, I thank you for clarifying what can be complicated. As for Dale being a good boy, we all know that already and so does he, but if you want to give him frozen liver treats, hey, who is to complain?
Yeah. As a stalwart grower of heirloom tomatoes, it’s not for the faint of heart. There’s nothing you can get from heirlooms that you won’t get from hybrids in terms of taste or nutrition, and the hybrids have better yields, earlier yields, better resistance to disease, and are easier to grow. The only thing to be gained from heirlooms is a challenge the ability to save seeds, which is why I grow them.
At about 0:50 "heirloom tomatos are over-rated" you say. I disagree. Heirloom tomatoes have real tomato flavor. Modern tomatoes do not. At about 1:43 you refer to female pollen. FEMALE POLLEN! You can't be serious.
That's not true. All an heirloom tomato is a tomato that humans have artificially preserved the lineage of for 50+ years. There is nothing inherently special about heirloom tomatoes, and there are plenty of bland, unimpressive heirlooms out there. The reason why heirlooms have a reputation for tasting better is because the most popular varieties out there have been preserved strictly due to taste, but as a downside, they tend to have terrible disease resistance. There are huge numbers of modern F1's that use heirlooms known for their taste, but they actually have genetic diversity. Something like an F1 Brandy Boy is just as good tasting as any heirloom on the market, but it actually has vigor, productivity and disease resistance. The Chef's Choice line of tomatoes also accomplishes this. Then, there are crosses like Marzinera that are mindblowingly productive and disease resistant. Then there are absolute monsters like Big Beef, Celebrity, and Carmello that provide outrageous production and perfect, uniform, crack resistant fruits. Modern tomatoes are so overwhelmingly better than heirlooms it's not even a contest. You just have to sift through them to find the best of the best.
It's true. They are overrated. Doesn't mean they all suck nor are they all amazing. We should focus on enhancing the genetics of all the plants we grow. Also, he corrected the pollen part.
A lot of good information here. Did you know that a lot of the heirloom varieties of tomatoes (and many other vegetables) were created using induced radiation mutation? Back in the 1940's-50's they'd take a bunch of seeds and put them in a box with uranium ore, let it sit for a few weeks, then plant them to see what would grow. Compared to inserting a single gene in a lab (GMOs) this method seems way scarier, but we've been eating it for almost a century. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding
another great video. my yields with heirloom tomatoes was always terrible. I also see a lot of confusion that people think cross pollination effects the fruit that first year when it only effects the seeds in that first year fruit.
Correct! It is the seed that is cross-pollinated. I have spent so much time suffering with heirlooms, as well. There are a couple I will still grow (mostly Brandywine Yellow and Arkansas Traveler), but there are so many good F1’s now that there isn’t much need to grow them anymore for most gardeners.
gmo doesn't work that way. To make a blue tomatoe you'd need genes for blue plant pigments in a fruit, for instance from a blue berry. Then you'd also need to breed white tomatoes so the blue pigments show up, otherwise it will have both red and blue pigments making a purple tomato. The plant itself is perfectly safe to eat and maybe has additional nutrients.
Yeah the maker of this video is more fair to GMOs than some but still is phrasing things in a way that seems designed to scare people off. There's nothing inherently wrong with GMO, it's a tool for creating new plants, and just like any tool whether it's good or bad depends entirely on what the people using it are doing with it. It can theoretically be used for bad things... say, if someone were to try creating a GMO version of kudzu vines that are EVEN MORE invasive than the current ones. It can be used for good things, say the creation of golden rice to solve vitamin A deficiency problems in third world countries saving millions from the health problems that deficiency results in. Or it can be used for neutral things, say a large agriculture company making GMO crops to increase yields for the sake of increasing their profits. Short version, GMO is a tool. Tools are neither good nor bad, it depends on what you do with them. You can use a hammer to build a house for an underprivileged family or you can use to murder a hobo in an alley.
I grow my heirlooms for variety of color and flavor. I also have found many that do better for me than hybrids. I have to grow my tomatoes up at my dad's garden because our current house is in shade, but last year I grew San Francisco fog variety in my shaded yard and they ripened for me . It is not either or ... Not one Size fits all. Also saving heirlooms preserves traits we may need in a hybrid variety in the future. My dad and I grow both and I don't see a downside to either side of the fence.
If you have found heirloom varieties that do well in your area and you like them, keep growing them for sure. As I mentioned in this video, there are heirlooms that are well-adapted and vigorous and can do well for many growers, and some growers live in easier climates than others that can grow wider varieties of things. The point of this video is to explain the difference between heirlooms and hybrids, because many organic gardeners are biased against hybrids. This is a bad mentality, because having an anti-hybrid bias prevents new gardeners from having success. The way you entice new gardeners into the craft is to set them up for success, and you do that by recommending easy to grow varieties. For most, that will not be the most popular heirlooms. In summary, try many varieties and assess what does well for you. If they're heirlooms, hybrids or a mix of both, grow the ones you enjoy. Just don't struggle growing varieties that don't do well for you because of pressure from others.
Beverly Brown I agree with you both if not for the flavor I'd not bother growing a garden, I'm keeping my taste as my leader and am raising Brandywine and Big Brandy (Brandi ) and will test with a open mind .However Brad's Atomic Grape is a Hybrid that is our circle of people favorite and My favorite is a Heirloom Terracotta that I plan to have until I have a new favorite. This year I have 34 types under my grow lights and mostly Heirlooms, I do expect that hybrids can satisfy anyone that not reading labels. I'll post pictures later in the season about mid August
I enjoy growing a mix. If I could only grow 10 tomato varieties every year I would grow 4 cherries (2 hybrid, 2 heirloom) 3 for canning (all hybrid) 3 for fresh slicing (all heirloom). I want excitement but man… nothing pumps out tomatoes like a Big Beef.
Yes, I am growing Purple Cherokee, Beefsteak, Better Boy, Black Krim and cherry tomatoes--can't remember offhand which variety. I'm pretty excited about them, and I have a great oven-roasted tomato sauce recipe for canning that does away with peeling them.
I’m growing hybrids, dwarfs, and some open pollinated (Burbank, Terracota, and Tomesol) that I received free. I’m looking forward to see which tomatoes do the best in our desert climate.
@@zia_kat I have Celebrity seedlings that I going to transplant later this month. I planted Early Girl last summer and the plants developed fruit early but took a long time to ripen and weren’t that good eating. Hopefully, Celebrity will do well here. I’m going to plant early this year and hopefully will have a better harvest. Thanks for the reply!
@@archstanton9703 everyone has different climate and soil conditions so grow what works best in your specific situation. for me celebrity is super flavorful but takes a bit more time to ripen than EG. EG ripened really quickly and was good but not quite as delicious as celeb but worth it for early salsas. i'm also def going to be trying some more hybrids that do well in our desert climate.
I love heirloom, but this year growing a mix w/ hybrid for production and canning. Actually I went back on your videos and found varieties I am excited to try. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Have a great day
You're welcome! I'm glad some of the variety selections could be helpful. Hoss Tools have a lot of good variety selections, too, if you struggle with humidity and disease.
Love this video! I will go ahead and say I grow heirloom because: - I want to save seed and know that it’s not sterile for seed independence - I want to know what kind of tomatoes I’ll get from the same seed
I disagree based on experience. My heirlooms are almost always more resistant to septoria and blight. It’s very obvious looking into the garden. Hybrids do have heavier yields
Tomato sellers label their tomato seeds and the diseases they are resistant to very carefully. Hybrid seeds, on average, have much better disease resistance packages. That's not to say that there aren't some disease resistant heirlooms and there aren't some disease susceptible hybrids. For example, I find Sun Gold hybrid to be *very* susceptible to disease, whereas the heirloom tomato Arkansas Traveler is very disease resistant. However, that isn't the norm. The most disease resistant tomatoes out there are going to be hybrids.
@@TheMillennialGardener I have the same results as you with sun gold last year sun sugar this year..I grew from seed a big Beef improved from Cornell this year and it was not improve to whatsoever.
Valuable? Maybe for coastal Carolina growers. Here on the West Coast (and undoubtedly elsewhere) your theories offer no relevance. Serious "Heirloomeros" recognize an obligation to conduct ongoing selection and are continuously upgrading cultivars without the corrupting influence of commercial F1s.
These aren’t theories. It is genetics. Disease resistance isn’t the only characteristic important to tomatoes. Production and root strength is, as well. You may not have a serious problem with disease in your location, but you do have a serious problem with drought tolerance and overall production. More vigorous F1’s are more likely to perform better in drought and have higher production than heirlooms. Obviously, some heirlooms are more vigorous than others, but this is the “general” rule. The obligation of gardeners is to try new things, honestly evaluate the results and report them. That’s what I am doing. Heirlooms are generally inferior. In the many dozens of varieties of heirlooms I’ve grown over the years, only two shocked me with their vigor to date.
@@TheMillennialGardener The theory is not related to basic genetics, which you've accounted for accurately. It's your implied conclusion that we'd all be better off subjecting authentic heirloom cultivars to hybridization with cultivars of genetic novelty. It's no sin - science is based on theory until proof is validated. I'll point out that we have have no issue at all with drought tolerance as we grow our multiple heirloom cultivars with a drip system under shadecloth. The system also excludes most pests and viruses. We have a robust selection program that has enabled us to release several proprietary, authentic heirloom cultivars over the years, improving flavor, shelf life, and disease resistance. It is evidence that genetic resilience abounds within the DNA resources of authentic heirlooms. We are not without problems altogether but we generally find expedient, organic-compliant solutions. Our success has enabled us to build a successful business on the West Coast during the past 15 years. I don't doubt the veracity of your experience and, as a grower, your prerogative to choose your path ought not be challenged. I would only suggest caution in communicating your decision to the public since it tends to discourage some from choosing a successful path like ours. There are countless ways to produce tomatoes. Good luck!
Some good explanations of types. However, when someone tries to tell me that Big Beef can compare in taste with a clssic Beefstek, i get off the train. I understand that disease is a real challenge in your environment and some hybrids may offer more disease reisistance, but don't pretned that the taste is the same.
If two heirloom tomatoes are crossed to create a new tomato- ie. Berkeley Tie dye- is a hybrid Or is it an heirloom? I’m confused because they are still sold as heirlooms.
If youre loking to grow a lot of different tomatoes and are ok living from packet to packet you buy from the shop then hybrids are fine. They have a high vigor, Are usually pretty prolific and can be just as tasty as heirlooms. You just can't save their seeds. Bevause youll get something different. If you want to save Seeds and have a reliable phenotype then heirlooms Are great. Heirlooms also help to maintain genetic diversity and can grow very well if theyre from your area. On top of that they are fun to learn about and grow. For gardening hobbyists and enthusiasts theyre the Orchids and violets of our day in that theyre the "in" thing. I dont know wnough about GMOs to comment. Either theyll give you lumps or they wont according to the internet...
I have to disagree. We have to select tomatoes that will grow in our Texas heat, and I've tried several that were recommended by Texas A&M as their superstars -- Celebrity, 444 and Early Girl. A&M usually gets it right -- they've recommended some great natives for my landscape and pollinator plants -- but boy, did they miss the ball on these recommendations. Without exception, they were all TERRIBLE. The tomatoes are small and might as well have been purchased from a store. Early Girl is absolutely the most overhyped, awful variety I've ever wasted a barrel on to raise. I'd rather raise cherry tomatoes -- I'd get a better yield, the size wouldn't be far off and it would taste a lot better. If you're going to go with a hybrid, in my experience, the older hybrids are better than the newer ones when it comes to taste and flavor. For example, I'll definitely be raising some Better Boys -- but again, it's an older hybrid. Still, our absolute favorite, hands down, is the heirloom Cherokee Purple. No, it doesn't give as much (keep in mind, we also raise in containers) and we have to plant it super early to get it producing before the temps hit the 95+ range, but the flavor is absolutely incredible. Also, the San Marzano plum tomato beats the Roma all hollow for sauces and the like. I'm not against hybrids at all, and while I detest Monsanto and its ilk, I also know the difference between GMOs and hybrids -- my parents had an organic fruit tree farm long before organic farming became popular. I think we owe it to ourselves to preserve our heirlooms vegetables, though. They may be wartier, but the taste will definitely make a difference.
The stores are full of bland-tasting tomatoes, so I grow for flavor. Nothing tastes better than Brandywine and related varieties. They're hard to grow in my area, poor producers, and ugly, but I'm stuck with them.
I appreciate your video, however I disagree , with your criticism of heirloom tomatoes, I have grown heirloom tomatoes , that have very good flavor , as well as good disease resistance, homestead , Rutgers , black krim , cuostralee ,even brandy wine , can grow very vigorously ! The problems , I have experienced, with all tomatoes , open pollinators , heirlooms, hybrids, they require care-full examination, for insects , blights , mildews, special attention to fertilizer and water ,especially in hot climates ! I have had as much , success with heirlooms , as I have had with hybrids! I have also had great failures with both , the trick is , mix it up grow both , add lots of mulch , fertilize , water carefully , take garden notes . Save the seeds of your best heirlooms, and take cuttings of your best hybrids, and enjoy the incredible flavor of home grown tomatoes !
I like your program but I disagree on a few points that you made , one , heirloom tomatoes are not necessarily, selected only for their flavor , the vigorous growth and disease resistance, are traits which are also attractive, it may be that heirloom & OP plants , are often referred to , some what interchangeably. For example the variety , Rose , is a cross between Brandywine & Rutgers , the offspring produced a very flavorful tomato, as well as good production with decent disease resistance. There are no guaranties that a hybrid tomato , will do well , in a hot climate , I grew big beaf one summer , it produced one tomato ,then died from a severe blight , that one tomato tasted as good as any heirloom I had ever grown , oops, I can’t save the seeds , the blight was so bad I could not take a cutting either! If it had been an heirloom , like Cherokee Purple for example , produced one tomato , I would save the seeds anyways ,even if the tomato did not have a good flavor, the reason being , with my experience the next season from the seeds almost always does better. Now I have to say , I do not understand plant genetics , like you do, but I have noticed , nurture , good garden hygiene and planning can make big difference in productivity. It would be interesting if a plant breeder could produce a OP Big Beef, that tasted as good as the one I grew one summer .
2 года назад
very good explain between Heirloom VS Hybrid VS GMO tomatoes. thanks
