These pads are useless; get an airbag: frt9.co/ffkrh5 Rukka D3O XTR (CE exceeding, massive pads that work): frt9.co/d5xm7f Connect with us: / fortnine / fortnine / fortninecanada Directed and Edited by Edwin El Bainou
It's worth mentioning that EN17092 tests garments with the pads *removed*. Meaning a AAA jacket or pant, which has been drop tested on the Darmstadt machine at 120kph, will still slide to a highway-speed stop without costing you skin (70kph for AA, 45kph for A). C-class garments have no abrasion resistance criteria whatsoever; this would be something like a mesh chassis for holding armour. Obviously, removing the pads from that would be silly, since its only purpose is to hold armour and you might as well wear a T-shirt instead. On that note, there *are* hero companies that make pads to greatly exceed CE 2 size and attenuation requirements. Aside from the Dainese back pad I showed, Rukka's D3O XTR comes to mind (link in description). Those pads are huge compared to the Type B template, and size matters if you're going to rely on pads to get to wherever your abrasion comfort level is. We don't always slide precisely on our shoulders, elbows and knees. It's usually the butt. We all have our own equations for balancing comfort v. practicality v. safety, which is why I made a point of *not* telling people to take the armour out of their jackets (twice!). Fortunately the CE standards make it fairly clear what your gear can and can't do, enabling us all to choose the stuff that achieves whatever we're after. ~RF9
Apologies that my first comment on one of my favourite channels is a criticism. EN1621-2 is the standard for back protection. The Limb Joint Protectors used in the video are covered by EN1621-1.
My biggest question to this (and I have many) would be are there quality stand-alone armor makers whose armor is worth replacing the substandard stuff with? And if so who are they?
@@dmoooooooo : D3O, Forcefield, Knox, Rheon and SAS-Tec, to name but five - although to refer to other manufacturers’ components as “substandard” is inaccurate. They pass the standard, so are not substandard; it is simply that some producers use superior materials or engineer their products to exceed the requirements set by the standard.
Thank you, another great video that actually brings information and data! One comment / question though, is how does this relate to offroad riding? I ride hard enduro, so when I fall, it's never at 120 MPH on asphalt. It's more at 10-25 MPH on gravel / rocks / dirt. And I think that these pads are very useful in spreading the absorbed force, so instead of being poked by pointy gravel, the hit is spread somewhat evenly across the surface of the pad, reducing the overall absorbed force (I believe quite more dramatically compared to the asphalt test). So, what is your opinion on using pads for offroad?
As an orthopaedic surgeon (and a motociclist) I can say that its easier (and got better results) to fix lower Energy fracture than higher energy fractures... So, the benefit of using this gear may not protect you from having that fracture in the first place, but may shield you from months of reabilitation and permanent pain and limitation.
I just crashed today because of an old man that did not see me. I landed extremely hard on my left shoulder without breaking any bones or any serious damage, just a lot of pain. It's crystal clear to me the importance that those stupid rubber things had during the crash: they helped me to soften the main impact and shielded my shoulder from the tarmac. Before this crash i thought they were useless as you said in the video, but i left them in my jacket just to be extra safe .. and I'm very glad i did.
I would say the point of this video is not to encourage or deter the use of plastic body armour but to put pressure on the motorcycle apparell companies to lift their game & offer protection that will significantly improve the risks of not fracturing bones in a fall. It's not about individual incidents but statistical analysis over a large data set. I have had crashes with & without body armour and never had a fracture but.... give me the choice of better protection & I would pay for having that.
@@newFaction64From the eyes of many first responders it would be objective wouldn’t it? If just one or two were adding anecdotes I would agree; however there are at least 100 of them.
Hit a van at 40mph side on, I was wearing full body armour and walked away without a single break. The trade off was head to toe bruising instead of shattered limbs.
@@atomsmasher12 Some people are so oblivious to the danger that the law is sometimes needed to impose a minimum level of safety. Hands are systematically exposed in a fall, even at low speed. In the same way, I wouldn't be shocked if bikers were forbidden to ride in shorts and flip-flops, as I've already seen in the south of France.
@@nayIIkoyeah, but... They do need to wear gloves in France. In certain states in the USA, you need eye protection, by law, but a skid lid is optional. Laws and regulations are often more confusing than helpful, I think it's an aid to Darwin's theory. (I understand keeping dust or errant insects out of riders' eyes is important).
I’m an ER doc. I know armour won’t help in worst case, high energy scenario’s, but it helps mitigate the contusions, abrasions and lacerations in the kind of spills we are more likely to suffer. I had a low speed mishap riding off road in Iceland and diced up the elbows and arms of my riding jacket on volcanic rock. I had a few minor scratches from punctures through the Cordura fabric in the unpadded areas, but without armour protection it would have been a long complicated journey to a distant hospital to suture up contaminated, complex lacerations that would have terminated my bucket list trip. Some dabs of Polysporin for the skin and duct tape for the jacket and I was good to go.
Agreed. Even minimal protection can be the difference between a lesser injury and a severe injury. Early on in my riding days I had a lower speed crash where my left foot got pinned by the footrest and drug underneath the bike as I slid. I had worn basic "steel" toe boots and they prevented the footrest from impaling my foot. Still hurt, still injured, but it was the difference between literally walking away or visiting someone like you.
THIS! Fortnine is only looking at the "fracture" or "not fracture" binary, and completely ignoring the fact that fracture severity is a spectrum that runs from hairline to shattered, and that spectrum is directly correlated with impact force. Armor reduces force received by your body, which reduces injury severity.
I agree. I like Ryan F9 but he is FOS on this one. I've crashed before at (going less than 60km) and the armor protected my knees. I was able to walk away with no need for rehab. An airbag is not going to protect you if you are going fast enough and hit something hard enough. If Nike, Coach or Levis, wanted to get in the market, then putting body armor in their clothes, then it would not be that hard.
I tripped and fell in my living room like an idiot, my foot got caught on something and I hit the ground hard enough that it would have almost definitely broken my knee, but I had just gotten home and was wearing my cheap motorcycle pants, and it almost didn’t hurt at all. Just because something isn’t 100% effective doesn’t mean it’s not worth having. If you hit something just hard enough to break a bone and the pad only takes 10% of the impact that’s still enough to save you.
Right, this like playing football without a helmet because studies show they don't stop concussions. Sometimes the testing protocol isn't even testing the right thing.
You're commenting on a remark where the author extols pads inside the house as justification for wearing pads for a completely different and higher-demand application where their utility is more to protect manufacturers than the wearer. As rugby players whether they want the sport to convert to American football style safety equipment, and then ask yourself why extra safety requirements can not only change behaviors, but also create new problems unintentionally.
@@caseyshiloh247 my point was that not every crash is hitting a tree at 50mph and sometimes the pads are more than enough to protect you. If you only look at the extremes the pads are useless but you’re also ignoring the fact that most motorcycle accidents are low speed crashes where pads are absolutely effective.
@@actualsize123 Yeah I had a low speed crash where my shoulder took the brunt of the impact. I didn't even realized it until I noticed the dirt on my jacket was indented with the honeycomb pattern of the armour underneath. It might have not been a fracture, but I was 2500km from home and a badly bruised shoulder would have been a dampener on the rest of my trip. Anyone doubting pads needs to think about standing on concrete and freely falling to their knees. It's going to hurt.
This one made me double take. I usually trust you for information, but this seemed so irresponsible that I had to go check sources and find out you were largely mis-representing them. Please reconsider this video. I know you're saying "you" are not using it, and not "recommending" others do or do not, but come on.. you're a role model for a lot of us out there.
He literally said at the end that he doesn’t tell you to take the armour out, but airbags are a way better protection, and he’s right, armour only helps with road rash as it can’t soak up much impact
On behalf of Liz de Rome: In the research paper (AAP, 2011), we reported that riders wearing motorcycle clothing fitted with impact protection (IP) were significantly less likely to sustain any injuries than were riders wearing motorcycle clothing without IP and those wearing non-motorcycle clothing. The analysis compared injured and uninjured riders by level of protection taking other factors into account such as crash type, object impacted and speed. We were able to demonstrate significant reductions in open wound injuries associated with level of protection, but not fractures. In our discussion, we explain that the study sample (n=212) was too small to determine statistically significant evidence for the reduction of fractures. This is because fractures represent just 15% of riders’ injuries, compared to 71% soft tissue injuries across a population sample of crashed motorcycle riders. We strongly recommend that riders continue to wear impact protectors. Associate Professor Liz de Rome.
@@PumpKing96Because turkeys borrow low resolution statements and mis apply them in the hopes they will sound smarter than they really are. The use-by date on research relevance is multi-factorial and differs across topics being studied. Ignore the turkey.
I'm an EMT. Been one for going on 13 years. I've seen more than my fair share of moto accidents. I can't say that gear has ever really prevented a fracture or not, but one thing I do think MUST be mentioned, that moto gear (with or without armor) DOES DO INSANELY WELL, is ABRASION resistance. Yes, a broken bone sucks, but I've seen a woman's breast belt sanded off by the asphalt because she only had on a sweatshirt. Down to the bone. Anecdotally, I have lowsided before at a pretty pedestrian 25-30mph. Armored jacket, regular denim pants. The jacket took the hit and I had no bruise or injury on my arm. The road went through my pants like they were tissue paper and I have a softball sized scar on my knee now. Armor wouldn't have really mattered there, but a pant with abrasion resistance absolutely would have. So while I can't critique the argument against armored pads because I'm not an expert on the literature and most severe motorcycle accidents I've seen have had broken bones with and without armor, I can say that road rash can be a nightmare and have never seen road rash on an area where someone was wearing proper gear, and ALWAYS seen it on every single person that wasn't wearing any. To that end, I think it's a bit of a disservice to leave that part of the equation hanging and not mentioned. That airbag is going to save you from a broken clavicle, but if you aren't wearing an abrasion resistant layer as well, the road might well grind your skin, fat and muscles down to the bone. We call those chest protectors with no sleeves "organ donor vests" for a reason.
I hope people read this and take your advice rather than do as Ryan says he does. Road rash is a motherf***er to say the least and anything to help prevent it is a positive. I have a “tattooed” left forearm where my shitty cuff button broke during a slide and let my sleeve roll up. Would have been a lot worse if it wasn’t there for any of the slide, not to mention the rest of me that the leather jacket was still covering.
pads are not for abrasion. They suck at it. Video is talking about effectiveness of pads for what they are intended - impact dissipation. This is why he choose remove pads FROM a JACKET, not get rid of a jacket.
Yeah I hit a deer last year and was completely geared up head to toe and even though I broke multiple ribs and bones including ones in my face under my Shoei helmet, every doctor, police and EMT said my gear saved my life. And later after investigating my gear I did notice my level 2 pads were ground down and took plenty of abuse. So it’s probably a useless point but the pads did help too. The only abrasion I had was where the hip pad wore through.
At 62 years old I got knocked off my Honda goldwing driving through California coast fog and smoke I was trying to be careful going 25 mph as it was getting dark Hit a construction patch and it threw me off the bike there is no way you can tell me that my gear didn't save me from having broken bones it was worth every penny my full year including gloves I hit the pavement I spun I don't know how many times The only thing that happened to me and it didn't show up on x-rays was probably a fracture a hairline one in my foot that took a long time to heal Yes I had a bruised kidney but I was able to get a new face shield on get my bike out of the ditch which hardly had a scratch and proceed another 250 mi to my destination anyone who doesn't ride with armor protection is just a fool we see them in the street riding with flip-flops shorts personally I won't go to pick up groceries without my gear Yes my next thing is to get one of those inflatable vests it's been on my wish list hopefully this year
I'm not sure if you ever had an accident. But I had where I rolled across the street like a ball for about 60 meters . And believe me, I was happy to wear clothing with good protectors. Because I was rolling like a ball, most impact was on my knees, elbows and shoulders ... exactly where the protectors are. And looking at the wearness at these points, I'm glad, that the impact was not directly on my knees, elbows or shoulders. Maybe worth mentioning: I only wear good protectors made of rubber, not thees cheap foam ones you have shown in the video.
Those studies don’t capture the 1000s of people who crash wearing the protection with no injury. Only the injured get captured in the data, similar to a survivorship bias.
A highway speed slide with a AAA garment, with the pad removed, will still hurt a lot more than with the pads installed. I'd rather fall from 5ft high with pads than without. That's all they are there for. That last line you threw in there about appreciating life, supports the idea that a marginal safety item, which doesn't have much downside, should be worn.
I hope we don't go down the road of saying controversial stuff for clicks while doing real, tangible harm. Oop, looks like we're there. Remember fellas, it's easier to appreciate life without skin grafts involved, and improperly quoting studies doesn't a scientist make.
I never consider those pads as protective against bone fracture. But they are good for abrasion, small hits that can hurt you long time. And also some more serious knee or elbow injuries. But to be honest not for serious accidents. I would never remove them as "any protection is good protection"
I don't have a motorcycle license, just love F9's content, and every time they demonstrated pads "absorbing" impact force they seemed to not do that. The pads don't seem squishy at all, just flexible, but to absorb force you'd need to compress a material (Like the styrofoam in a helmet does) which these pads don't seem to do. They might spread the force over a somewhat larger area but that's it.
@@GameCyborgCh yes that is how you absorb impact. By spreading it over time and area. There is no way to magically disperse of the energy any other way.
the two studies he quoted also have some methodological flaws regarding how they collect their data. which is due to them getting their data based on reported accidents. aka accidents where the cops showed up and/or the motorcyclist got collected by an ambulance. Any single vehicle accident where the motoryclist was able to continue riding will not be in the database, on accouint of not requiring police to be called. And those less severe accidents are the ones where armor actually works.
As someone that had a 10-15mph lowside in the BRC with no pads on legs, torso, and arms, I can tell you the bruising I got on my left knee and elbow was horrendous, lasting for about 2 weeks leaving me unable to work out or do anything strenuous. Over the winter I lowsided at roughly 2 times the speed of the BRC lowside, so 4 times the impact forces. However, this time I had CE level 2 pads in elbows, shoulders, back, hips, and knees. I walked away with nothing but a headache and was working out the next day. I really appreciate Ryan's philosophy on people making their own decisions, and just making sure they have all the information to make a well informed decision. For me, it's absolutely worth wearing the pads if it means there's a greater chance I won't be nearly bedridden for days.
I think your examples are where the padded armor is best - sliding with minimal impacts. I agree I will wear it just because why not, but I know if there is an impact I'm getting a break.
This! I (knock on wood) haven't had an unplanned on-road get off in a LONG time. However, I have ridden with dozens of people who have. I have seen the aftermath of *SLIDES* with and without armor. I ride with the best armor I can tolerate. I am sure that in high sides and multi-vehicle impacts, the presence or lack of a little foam pad is of little consequence. But, most accidents (not even reported) are not written up by a cop. The perpetrator tries to slink away before a COP shows up and adds insult to injury with a performance award such as: "Failure to maintain control of vehicle." Wearing good riding gear helps the road rash a lot, and the pads help with that too. So, I wonder about the validity of those surveys. Are the group of riders with and without armor reporting the accident results at the same rate? Perhaps riders with armor were able to sneak away from an accident scene and pretend like it was no big deal, and they aren't fully represented in the data. One time about 30+ years ago, I hit a small slick patch on an exit ramp. I low sided and slid to the outside of the curve. No impact and I got up and saw just a grayish frayed patch on my jacket. I picked up my bike noted the ground down parts, and the broken brake lever and turn signal. I then finished my ride to work. When I got to work and took off my outer layer, and then the inner down layer, and then the fleece liner, I noticed that my elbow had a patch the size of two quarters that looked like melted mozzarella cheese, it stuck to the fleece and came off, leaving a wet weeping raw meat underneath. The fleece, the down coat, and the outer layer were mostly fine, but the outer layer looked like I had scuffed it. If there had been a small pad there, I don't think I would have had that burn.
I've had a 30kph lowside in Kevlar with no pads and have a scar to show for it. I've also T-boned a car and gone flying in a cheap armored jacket and wasn't even bruised. Anecdotal yes, but I'll at least stick to some flexible C1 personally.
I was a London despatch rider for nearly 10 years and I can tell ya - if I hadn't have had something between my kneecaps and shoulders other than just a bit of weave on the many (slow speed, which is why I'm still alive) offs I had in that period, I wouldn't be walking. There's no question that the padding provided by the CE stopped my kneecap from being shattered, or fleshy bits from being shredded. I shall add that I frequently didn't wear standard bikers gear because most of it wouldn't last a month of despatch riding, it's a very different experience compared to the average weekend warrior or even hard core commuter, and I wouldn't spend a penny on some of the crap the average biker buys. My stuff was a mix of army surplus, industrial fishing stuff and other things that actually worked. But I always had troos and jackets with CE pockets.
Last year I started to practice moto gymkhana. Of the dozen time I have fallen on the ground I landed mostly on my side so: hip and elbow. Couple of times the bike landed on my feet and pinned me on the ground. I’m very grateful that I had full external armor and extra knee protection and a proper pair of hard boots.
FWIW, I was wearing a Vanson jacket with elbow and back armor of their design, a pair of jeans with CE2 hip and knee armor, and a pair of Racer gloves with carbon knuckle armor when a drunk did a last second left in front of me. My knee punched a dent into the side of his truck and my brake lever, which was the first contact with the vehicle, came down hard on the carbon knuckle protectors of my last two fingers. I technically fractured my knee, but it was the kind of fracture where it looks weird on an MRI but none of the parts are displaced to different locations, and I was able to walk away from the wreck. Also, all of my fingers were still on my hand despite the guillotine brake lever. When I came off the bike I landed hard on my back, on my back protector, and while my ribs were badly bruised in the back, none were broken and my spine wasn't bruised. (Quick pitch for the sort of out of fashion Vanson brand: after landing on my back and sliding on the asphalt, the back of my jacket wasn't even scratched. The leather they use wears like iron). This is anecdote, not data, and I agree with your concerns about regulatory capture and undersized protection. However, I think saying "it's not enough protection so I won't wear it all" is a contrarian but self-defeating choice. It seems like "this isn't enough protection so I'll wear more" would be a more rational response. Impacts vary, and I'm not sure that "break a femur" is the right threshold to be using as a baseline. There are plenty of impacts, like the one on my right knee, that are below the "break a femur" threshold but may have still broken my knee without the marginal protection that my knee pad offered. Those pads absorbed some of the force before it got to my knee. Given i had a partial but not complete fracture, maybe it was enough. There are also a lot impacts on a motorcycle that will get to "break femur" territory even in the presence of non-existent CE3 or 4. The armor isn't protecting you from that existential 100mph low side into a steel barrier. I'm not sure why this marginal protection isn't showing up in the study you cited, but studies aren't impervious to flaws and are designed to answer yes / no questions, not illuminate nuance as you are well aware. Btw, my take away from my accident was that I should have been wearing my air bag vest that day. It would have saved me a lot of pain where the gas tank hit my pelvis and would further lessened my rib bruising. But it certainly didn't have me thinking I should ditch the knee, hip, and elbow armor. If anything, it had me thinking about ways to improve the protection at my extremities. With all of that said, I salute your willingness to call it like you see it despite where your bread is buttered.
Agreed I took fall on my knee without protection last year at low speed but it been a horrible recovery. I couldn’t walk for a month, and it cracks on every stairs I walk up and down, and I walk with a limp now and I still feel pain, I’m almost 100% sure if I had pad I wouldn’t be in pain, every since that experience I never go riding without pads .. as I learnt it don’t take much impact to give you a f up day
you should learn to speak like a human being. anyway, i think the argument is for better protection standards, not no protection. though he doesn't present any actual evidence for what the standard should be or that a proper standard was pre-empted by the industry.
You have said everything I wanted to say much better than I could have said it. Top answer 👍 It's not often I disagree with Ryan but wearing no pads means you're gonna feel more impact and that just means more pain. It's an absolute no brainer to wear it, drive safe Ryan
The more I see the way the gear companies and government use outdated and shoddy standards really makes me think that their priority is making people feel safe rather than actually being safe, because feeling safe is much cheaper then being safe.
OSHA's pyramid of dangerous materials (you've seen this pyramid at every government facility) places personal protective equipment such as gloves, helmets, suit, etc... as the least effective of form of protection. And PPE is almost always the cheapest option. Doing things like actually separating the danger from people, or controlling who can handle these items, or training everyone how to handle dangerous items, is a lot more expensive. Another example would be keeping firearms out of everyone's hands, keeping it out of untrained hands, training everyone to use firearms, and finally wearing bullet resistant vests.
Yeah... I bought an FIM helmet for my motorcycle since I figured the single most important thing to protect was my head. Turns out the government where I live will only allow you to race track with a Snell helmet. FIM and ECE are considered "inferior" according to the government here, despite all the evidence they have it backwards.
@@langhamp8912you forgot the "make bulletproof backpacks and lunchboxes for elementary school students" option that we seem to be running with here in the States
Having had 2 relatively low speed low side crashes, i am thankful my jacket and pands were padded. The only damage i had was on the second wipeout the bottom of my palm where it meets the wrist hit the pavement hard. Those were crappy gloves. Lesson learned. My jacket popped a stitch where i had repaired it previously and my pants were just scuffed (luckily the road had dirt and gravel so i slid on a thin layer of crap and not so much the pavement, although i would not have lost traction if the road was clean!) Anywho, like I said, no damage to me besides my hand thanks to the pads in my gear. I will definitely continue buying armoured clothing. 👍
Dangerous Video. Every padding is reducing Impact energy. A broken bone is not just a broken bone, shatterd is more serios than straight broken and this will massiv improve the outcome of the injury. 26 years working as a nurse, emergency room and icu.
Hmmm, is it? Maybe to a tiny minority of super impressionable young riders who hero whorship Ryan and follow his every decision as their own. Then again, Ryan never advocated removing armor. In fact he did the opposite. He even says he still wears armor in certain situations. Where's the danger?
Respectfully I'm going to keep mine in. There are accidents where pads won't matter (either the impact was so soft that nothing would have broken, or the impact was so hard that no matter what you're wearing you'll break), but for that slight chance of an accident that the armor results in a bone bruise instead of a bone break I'll take that extra little bit of protection.
My only whoopsie so far was a lowside (raining, sand, cornering), and my right side came down pretty hard. I bruised my elbow, and that was WITH the elbow pad in my jacket. I think I may have broken my elbow-or at least got a bone bruise-if I hadn't had my elbow pad in place. I think Ryan's highlighting the fact that current armor pads need drastic improvement to help prevent the worst outcomes.
There is no, reasonable armor that can be 100% effective to prevent all injury. I've fallen a ridiculous amount of times, on street and offroad. After committing to buying motorcycle gear with armor, my injuries have significantly reduced. Similar falls that took me out of my work and hobbies for long periods now don't even register because no matter what armor I have, it's way way better than not having any armor at all. Like, Ryan is really suggesting we'd be just as protected I'm Levi's for crying out loud!
@@stephensumpter5311 Yeah, the CURRENT armor are useless for fractures. But just happen to be good enough for abrasions and bruise protection. We need stronger armor.
@@werepat I don't think he's suggesting that at all. The conclusion I got from his video is that safety standards are inadequate and armor should be better, but isn't. He literally says at the end that it is is more protective than no armor.
No gear necessary at all, if you don't crash. If you do, you'll be grateful for every scrap of gear you're wearing, even if its an extra bit of padding. My armor pieces are staying in!
I took my pads out, to provide more room for extra clothing layers. (I ride nearly every day of the year) I wear an Immortal Chest Protector with the shoulder pads from my jacket & an Axial2 Back Pad zip tied to the inside of it. I wear an EVO 2 Racing Collar that helps provide my head & neck with the maximum amount of protection from the cold. It also helps support the weight of my helmet directly onto the hard plastic shoulders of my Chest Protector, which allows me to ride for extremely long distances without getting a sore neck. The elbow pads in my jacket began to irritate my funny bone, so I found more comfort, warmth and protection from wearing External Elbow Pads with Forearm Protection. This gives me the ultimate upper body protection from accidents & from the elements. (Superior comfort, especially in cold weather).
@@seebarnes6588 There are 2 types of humans those who have had the seks & those that are going to have the seks or never will What to take from it? Life is life.
me too. Most automotive/powersports channels are just simps to whomever pays for a video, and consistently spread misinformation or show examples of things done wrong without explaining that it is unsafe. I can count on ONE HAND the number of car and car performance youtube videos where they have proper 5 or 6 point harnesses that are anchored correctly, with airbags removed. and I've only seen ONE video of a car where they had proper fire suppression. I've watched thousands of car videos over the decades
100% but there has got to be away to make them cheaper and more accessible though. If I took the total cost of my beginner gear, subtracted the cost of a helmet, I still would barely be able to afford an airvest; so unless I want to ride in a helmet and a airbag as my only safety gear... I think the best budgets ones I have seen are from Hit-Air and they started at 700CAD and I really like the Helite backpack option.
Not sure if it's such a good thing in this case. Maybe they just want to sell more airbags? I'll take laceration and abrasion protection at the cost of almost imperceptible discomfort.
I remember I specific incident when I first started riding where I wish I had been wearing armored pants. I totally botched a turn on a hill from a stop sign. I popped the clutch, which made my newb brain grab the front brake too hard, which made me lose control and get all kinds of wonky. I ended up in the ditch on the other side of the road, and I had banged my knee against a stone as I went down. Having that armor would absolutely have saved my knee from the punishment it received that day. I could barely ride home. Would it have saved me from a break had I gone down a different way? Maybe not. But, I sure wished I had it that day. And now, I wear full gear, with armor, every time I ride. You do you.
Love your content, I've been motorcycling only for 2 years but the humor and engineering you display is something I love. Something out of engineering explained and I love the candid nature of all your stuff keep it up man
There are a number of issues with that research that I noticed as a researcher myself. First off the n (number of cases for x) for many of the categories are too small to derive reasonable statistical significance. Second it does not take into account the severity of the accidents for each case, which adds a massive statistical confound to the data. There is not sufficient data present to derive anything really. Also the studies for airbags on motorcycles are practically non existent for road users, and most airbags on the market offer little protection for legs, arms, and shoulders. Legs/feet are also the largest source of injury in most accidents. We do need better protection and better standards, but some protection in most cases will be better with none, I would rather hit the road with something to help cushion the landing. Airbags are not a perfect replacement for padding, they can fail to deploy, or break on impact, or be punctured. I use both pads and an airbag.
Well said, we got to be very careful when looking at those reports, generally speaking , since in most cases they try to correlate fractures/padding presence but the crash mechanism is completely lost, the amount of energy either and, I know friends who brought motorbike jeans and...didn't adjust knee D3O CE level 2, for instance... Yes, we want higher and more representative standards. How can we put this in practice? Let's make it happens, Ryan.
LegBags... feel free to do all the work and pay me for the name lol The worst thing about the token protection is it feels so restrictive to move that I feel more likely to crash while wearing it... so I don't wear it it.
I also do research for a living. If you pause the video at 2:28 and look down the column "Fracture %", the lowest values are almost all on the rows reading "Yes with Body Armor", meaning Yes to Motorcycle Jacket, then Yes to Motorcycle Gloves, then Yes to Motorcycle Pants and so on. Fractures are higher with motorcycle gloves than without them, but overall injuries are much higher without motorcycle gloves - duh. It's an odd outcome, but the number of cases is really too small for any statistical significance, certainly no p-value less than 0.05. As a daily, year round rider, who has been part of a group ride that went very, very wrong ending in a Life Flight helicopter ride for the guy with the broken thigh bone, I can tell you that our two crash victims were wearing modular helmets. Both had scratched up visors after bad wrecks, but both fully protected the heads and faces of their wearers. Having witnessed it, I wouldn't be caught dead without a helmet whatever the statistics say. After all, there are statistics and then there is what happens to YOU.
100% agree. However, if a meta-analyzes are performed they change the n. They could also potentially account for the confounding if severity is reported.
What studies often miss are the accidents that didn’t end up in the survey because the person was absolutely fine…because they had armour. That time you slowly dropped and landed elbow down on concrete? Might have been an arm breaker, but you had a pad so you didn’t end up in ER.
Yes, can't see why the protector wouldn't be usefull if the primary impact is little above the fracture force level, and taking it back below. Doesn't take away the fact we could have better protectors.
Vital point, thank you. Especially as many of these studies were from US, where medical care is expensive. Many fallen riders just limped home feeling lucky
Love the way you wrote this and delivered with that strong phrase at the end! 👌 I’ll keep my pads anyway for the moment, as i’m get used to and don’t bother me at all. But totally understand the point of view.
I had a lowside wearing an armoured two piece and was spared cuts, roadrash and significant damage to my left forearm that took all the sliding/impact with the bike post crash. The biggest consequence to me was having my elbow jammed into my ribcage - that smarted for a few days. I was grateful to be all ATGATTed at the time. I won't be removing my armour from my kit, but Ryan's got a point that the armour is presently market-neered downwards in spec and could be better. As consumers, we make clear market demand signals by what we buy. if "we" keep buying and demanding armoured gear, it will only get better. Its basic consumerist feature drive to manufacturers. Thanks for the presentation and the thinking its generated.
@@Aaron-sj2txGermany has a catch all phrase in the StVO which are the rules for the road for all vehicles. There’s a requirement that you should wear adequate protection at all times and your vehicle be properly maintained for the conditions. That loophole lets insurance decline coverage if you don’t have a seatbelt fastened, bald tires, snow or ice on windows, or on the motorcycle they can get you for improper footwear, lack of gloves, helmet.
No, they dont. Had an accident last year, no back protection but a broken vertebra and they didnt care at all. Although they tried to refuse paying for the helmet and other damaged gear.
Remember a few (like 15) years ago when there was a big hubbub about helmet ratings? And how the Snell standard was great when it came out, but maybe hadn't really kept up with industry capabilities? And there was a big study in one of the magazines about how the stiffer Snell rating transferred more energy to the skull than the softer CE rating? And how Snell was testing all of their helmet sizes with heads that weighed the same, despite obvious changes in volume? Pepperidge Farms remembers. I think Ryan may have just started another industry brushfire like that.
Crash test dummy here.. flung myself off into the woods up in the Catskills after hitting a blind corner covered in sand from the prior winter. 7 broken ribs and a collapsed lung. Helicopter ride as well to a trauma center. Thankfully had a forcefield sub 4 back protector and level 2 everywhere else. Astar super tech boots saved my ankles, the bike landed on them and pinned me under the bmw. Knox handroid gloves..the ones with the exoskeleton saved my hand which was buried in a pile of river rock. Had yellow bruising around all the body armor but all good. I landed with my arm up on a pile or river rock which did the damage to my ribs. Full airbag vest could have helped, i suspect. The hospital bill was over $100,000! Do your self a favor and add as much armor as you can afford. Riding 15 years till that event. It will happen, and there is no need to end up in a wheelchair!
Murica! Would have been €600 own risk over here in NL. But crazy story ma dude. Hope you recovered well. I only ride with full gear. I like my body and skin.
It will happen? I'd say the majority of riders will get through a 50-year riding 'career' without a significant crash and/or injury. It's not a statistical certainty. Your story highlights the usefulness of gear, but you know what's even more useful? Safety and sport riding courses every single spring to refresh your skills and safely test your limits.
I had a road side spill at around 65kph and my elbow took the majority fall. I wasn't wearing armour just a hoodie and I know if I'd had some elbow armour it would've taken some of the trauma off my elbow, which swelled up for weeks like a tennis ball. Never been 100% since then size wise but at least I could walk away and learnt my lesson about white lane markings, light rain, and taking a corners. The thing I really appreciated was my engine crash bars which stopped the bike from crushing my leg against the road when the back wheel went out.
For someone who rides dual sports and has a lot of low speed falls the armour really does help. Probably doesn’t make much of a difference if you hit a wall at 90.
Fell over once doing some slow speed work in a parking lot. Landed hip first on the ground. Had hip armour in my pants, so I didn't feel a thing, but l imagine that would not have been the case without it. At the very least wouldn't been some bruising.
And if you fall on it again? Yeah, right. "Pads are worthless." You know what is actually worthless? This video! And to think so many people will simp over Ryan and his ability to read a script for 7 minutes that they'll just take his word and suggestions to heart and remove the pass from their gear anyway.
@@werepat ...if you actually read the comments you'd notice people either contesting him or reinterpretating his words correctly (current armor bad, we want better armor) but no, keep whining
I high sided on the expressway last May doing approximately 130kph after hitting a metal patch on the road. I was airborn for what seemed like an eternity and knew it was going to hurt when I finally made contact with mother earth. When I landed I broke my collarbone and damaged my shoulder ((now titanium man ) however I also slid a long way alongside my bike. The motorcycle jeans I was wearing were damaged but the road never made contact with my skin due to the fabric and armour. My Jacket was like wise badly damaged but the material and armour protected my skin. My gloves had sliders on the heel of the palm and were both badly worn (trying to slow myself down ) but my hands were fine apart from a small cut on one finger. I never believed that so called armour would protect my bones and it did not, but there is no doubt what so ever, that if I had not been wearing it I would have suffered serious skin and tissue damage. I understand the points Ryan is making but his almost dismissive " It may save you a bruise" is, in my mind, a little dismissive of the very real possibility of serious slide injuries. His airbag may protect his bones in a crash but it will not stop him wearing away his elbow. Armour is there to help save the rider from unintentional weight loss due to skating on your ass down a strip of tarmac.
That's true, but is there really much of a point if you're riding around town and not going those speeds? Not arguing, it's just an interesting debate. 130km/h is higher than the speed limits for 99% of roads here in Aus
I think you're mixing up armor and slide protection. He's not advocating for not wearing abrasion resistant gear, just for taking the pads out of them to make them more wearable
Ive been down a few times with and without armor. The times without armor took a few months extra to recover even though I was going slower than the times I went down with armor. Sure its anecdotal, but its good enough for me to always have gear when I ride.
I don't believe anything I see on the Internet today, but I am a believer that knee pads should extend farther around the side rather than simply covering the knee cap. The response to finding that existing armor is less effective than one would hope should not be to abandon all armor. It should be to demand innovation from makers to offer more effective armor. Nothing stops them from exceeding the regulatory standard but consumer expectations. Edit: Then again, I may be missing the more nuanced conclusion that broken bones are inevitable right now and the thing to invest in after adequate abrasion resistance isn't padding but wearable airbags to prevent more serious neck injuries. RF9 did include the Helite on his recent list of starter gear for 2024, after all.
Agreed. These tiny CE pads are kind of a joke, but if we had better armor on top of it to spread the impact it would matter. Of course, adventure and moto x riders do exactly that, but we aren't really willing to do that for routine on-road riding. All the current styles are "riding jeans" and "riding boots" that are actually hi-top tennis shoes. I choose to wear riding pants OVER my jeans and take them off at dest but most people won't - they want convenience so they get jeans with these little tiny pads that wouldn't protect you if you just fell over a stop sign....
I made a bicylcle crash at 50kmh thats like 30mph. My knee got damaged at the side not at the front what everybody always wants to protect... Really painfull. I wont imaging what would happened at 60mph because the force is 4x times higher :/
Agree. I have a pair of Klim jeans that have very little armor, just like F9 is showing in this video. I have a pair of Dianese leather pants that have amazing knee and shin protection. The two are miles apart in terms of armor and protection.
You can get not only wearable airbag jackets but airbag pants now as well. Only one brand of airbag pants right now but that should expand (heh) quickly.
The 2 biggest flaws of this this video are: 1: The video is assuming because the armor doesn't meet 4kN in distribution, the armor's effect is near negligent. This is inaccurate. 2: The study said results are inconclusive. Yet the video pedals it as though there is no relation between armor and less injury/fracture. As a researcher myself I get frustrated when this happens. My first thought when I saw the data put on screen was this: "How do we know that the people wearing gear weren't going faster and getting in worse accidents?"
Yeah, it’s ridiculous. Tumbling off your bike at low speed and landing on your elbow. I know the armour will have me just picking up the bike, not going to hospital.
1) no... when is that assumed? The video states that the standard is not good enough because it's limited. 2) well, that's an assumption on your part, with no reason to suggest it. Other than statistically improbable. If you are a researcher you should understand the concept of the null hypothesis.
Remember the difference between an open and a closed fracture? That is pretty important. They will also save you on any low speed crash. This is similar to complaining that you died in a car crash and that the car is not 'protective enough' while having hit a wall at 100km/h. You did hit a wall at 100km/h.
Padded motorcycle gear is phenomenal for snowboarding. Didn’t feel a thing when eating crap learning how to hit the rails. Haven’t bought another bike since my throttle got stuck open in 2nd gear after a blip downshift right before a 90 degree turn (wish I didn’t do that, but could’ve been way worse, padded gear really helped at that speed), so now I use the gear for snowboard season. 3 years bike sober so far and dying to go back when it’s fiscally feasible. I bloody babied that 750 too… Head engineer of Suzuki finally got back to me right after I sold the bike for parts lol, so there was nothing they could do about the situation. Probably for the best I suppose. Always loved your content btw!
That's why the motto is: "dress for the slide, not the ride". Pads don't protect that much against the impact itself (minus the helmet), but is all about making the slide comfortable.
Just to add, I have never expected pads to prevent fractures, they just would have cover the entire limb to be able to do that like a suit of armor or a MOTOGP suit. Its always been about the slide for me.
@@spartanx169x I think that's just the common sentiment, as it is very obvious, but if the companies did hold up their end on protective gear then we might not need to dress for the slide, but the fractures and the impact.
Seems like some protection is better than none. It might not save a bone when the force is very large, but if it was just enough to break a bone, is the pad not going to absorb some of that and save you from a fracture?
As a guy who's had 3 unfortunate 'offs' (in 60+ years of riding - none of which were avoidable - and 2 of which resulted in helo rides), I gotta believe that the gear I had on saved my bacon, at least to a degree. In my latest 'event' I hit sand on a shaded road in the mountains of SW VA early in the morning while negotiating a corner at 50 (+/-) mph and the bike simply slammed me to the asphalt. I have no memory of the accident, but I have to believe the KLIM gear I had on significantly reduced my injuries (as did my helmet). The ER doc at the hospital in Johnson City, TN where I was life-flighted commented that he sees a lot of m/c related incidents resulting in permanent and sometimes fatal injuries, many from incidents where no 'gear' was worn and he attributed the lack of major injuries to me to my gear. I consider myself to be an experienced rider who doesn't ride above my skill levels, but I do ride a lot, and the more we ride the more the odds are against us. I'm merely trying to mitigate the chances of an off resulting in permanent or fatal results. I'll continue to use my pads.
As an ER doc in Johnson City, I just say that to everyone. Imagine if I started telling people their gear probably doesn't do anything, they'd want another doctor! Particularly since it's not like I saw the crash, or was even at the scene. But people think I can read trauma like their insides aren't organized yogurt. The mush whisperer.
@@NaeMuckle A car crossed the road 10 Meters in front of me. I rammed into the side of the car. 10 month later I was able to leave the hospital for the first time. Second crash so far in 40 years of riding motorbikes was a crash caused by a sort of Antilope which came out of the forest and jumped into my bike directly from the side. Now you tell us accidents like these are avoidable? It is totally disrespectful to tell the victims of an accident that they are to blame for their accident, because it could have been avoided in any case.
Not every accident is a simple lowside from riding too hard for the skill, tires, or road conditions. Sometimes life just has other plans my man. I just recently had an avoidable accident, but alas I put off upgrading the rubbers and it caught up to me @NaeMuckle
Interesting, but how much good are the pads doing in a garbage can compared to in your jacket? Get better pads is the right answer. And be your own doctor by riding safe. I tipped a scooter at about 2 mph on asphalt in shorts and my knee cap swelled up like i was hiding a softball. Anything is better than that.
I'd concur, if I hadn't been dragged 50 yards under my Blackbird fifteen years ago, and *almost* worn through the shoulder pad in my jacket. No pad, no shoulder. A single data point, maybe, but it's *my* single data point. Two years later my femur was smashed by my handle bar, but that was where there were no pads.
Really interesting and informative video! That's why I have started wearing airbags for the last two years now...for track I have a tech air 10 and for street riding a motoairbag v3. Investing in your safety is so important. Enjoy and ride safe!
I'm glad I wore them a few days ago, the bruises in those slightly better protected areas are on a lighter yellow than the almost blue ones on my arm, my forearm, my leg or my foot. More important, a rider should never forget that wearing a certain level of protection doesn't mean being safe.
@@Derkenblosh2 yes I know that...but I was just thinking about which would be a better alternative for abrasion resistance Is a class A rated jacket with level 2 protectors better/worse than AA rated jacket without any armouring... which would be a better/cheaper way to increase abrasion resistance...and so on...lots of such questions not covered in this video
@@palashbhaumik4050 The A class is worse then the AA since it's not the pads but the surface material tested for abrasion, he covered that in a previous video something about textile versus leather.
IF - It helps anyone save edit time - When I use the record pause button - I also pause my jaw. It's simple - and effective. You just need to remember what you were saying in the previous shot. If you're moto blogging and you just ridden past something you want to find later - put your glove over the lens, then later just search for the black parts and Hey Presto...
....David Wood does a very impressive one take including a trip down a subway, if I remember he may even got on the train and popped up at tge exit subway, walked to a park bench and sat down. All in one take. I like it as it seems natural- if one is not too easily distracted
He’s using a brand he invested in heavily to pull this off. If you imagine your other moto vloggers doing this bit, 😅 their poor comment section. His brand enables this one shot, topic, and opinion to be. 🎉
I have landed on my CE1 knee pads in a parking lot, and I have no doubt they prevented a fracture or a worse injury. Barely. I felt the pad stiffen, I felt my knee hit, I swear I practically felt the texture of the pavement, and it hurt for a few hours after. I've wondered ever since why they did such a barely okay job at under 10 miles per hour. I noticed the same with my CE2 gear; hit something at road speeds and any of my gear feels barely adequate on the impact front. Thank you for explaining this, and for starting this conversation
@@user-Podcast-Canadathat's not necessarily true-no one appreciates the idea of being in good shape like the person who no longer is! The point remains the same
Eh this is kinda like not using a lock at all because all locks can be cut with a grinder. Having crashed with and without armour I know first hand how much less it hurts when you have armour. You know why that difference isn’t in the numbers? None of those impacts with the armour did I report. Basically will pads stop you braking bones in a bad crash? Nope. Will they make a smaller crash less painful and maybe protect from a small fracture? Yep
I found this video extremely interesting for the research, even though it takes me to a slightly different conclusion. Thanks for investigating so thoroughly!
Almost. If a fracture occurs at 4kN and our substandard (I agree) padding reduces the force of the impact (i.e. 6kN) as well as the disruption of the impact to below 4kN, the fracture will likely not occur. This will be a moot point for anyone riding a street bike into a concrete barrier at highway speed. But as some who have taken hard falls on elbows, hips and knees off-road, fall on my CE2 pads and Leatt knee and shin pads have saved my day more than once. Most of us have tried it both ways and regretted the days we left the padding at home. It is also important to remember the stats are only collected when someone presents at the hospital. This data is completely void of all the impacts that occurred, with padding, and no serious injury occurred.
you are, by far, the most in depth and best motorbike content creator of all time. Thank you for the time and effort you and your team put into making these videos for us.
Maybe an April Fool’s joke, but I would never take out my armor based on anyone’s video. I have been smacked in the chin’s with road debris and knew what if I didn’t have armor on I would have been recovering instead of riding.
Yeah actually the road debris is a solid reason to always keep your pads inside. It's a common case to have a stone fly into your windshield when you drive a car, what can we say about going on the road without a windshield?
I am a history teacher and I am using the final statement of this video in my lectures on war (with careful citations of course) . "Life is so beautiful, our instinct is gonna be to protect it. But our imperative, we have to remember, is to appreciate it". That's beyond profound!
With regard to this video, that sentiment is irrelevant. Wearing a padded jacket does nothing to decrease my appreciation or enjoyment of motorcycle riding! I get that ridingvwithout a helmet and gear really is a freeing sensation, and probably should be experienced by everyone, but saying wearing padded gear reduces the beauty of the world is, frankly, silly.
@@werepat Your comment is also irrelevant. What if wearing armor does impede someone's enjoyment of riding? Maybe I think we should limit all motorcycles to 60mph because I get the same enjoyment at 30mph as I do at 130mph. Surely that wouldnt impede on your fun right? And its safer right?! EI: Where's the line dude? The personalities who find it suitable to judge what is and what isnt "enjoyable", are often the same types who end up legislating limitations... I agree with you to an extent. I wear armor. But if someone says wearing armor reduces their enjoyment, thats their choice to make. Thats yhe freedom they can enjoy. Im happy they get to choose, and I expect them to be responsible for any consequences.
@@SuperSneakySniper my problem is not with unsafe practices. My problem comes from the tacit approval and implied encouragement from a notable personality that he thinks wearing armored gear is pointless. It's just wrong. Do whatever you want, but that includes doing your best to not be wrong.
To an extent this is true but it is missing a lot of real life use cases where protection does in fact make a huge difference. The major point being the abrasion/laceration protection. The focus in this video on broken bones, which are not a big deal in most cases. Scraping off part off your elbow or hip bone is a different matter, just like skin grafts or deep laceration that hit a major artery. Having had a whole bunch of accidents, on and off the bike, with and without protection, I can unequivocally say it does make a huge difference. The people that the research didn't approach were the more minor crashes, where people slide out or something to that extent and those crashes are much more common. In those cases, the protection absolutely does its job really well. There is also more than snapping a bone in half. You can chip or crack your elbows, shoulder or hips, which can create much bigger issues than a single, clean break. Bones also bruise, which takes months and months to heal, if it ever does. In my opinion this video is too narrow-minded, focussing too much a broken bones as being the worst injury you can have (which it isn't in most cases) and the fact the major brands have had a hand in setting that a standard that could be better. Instead of shooting down the concept of pads based on these two aspects of protective gear, you could argue for a better standard like the horse-girls get and include the situations where protection absolutely serves its purpose. Realise how many people take your opinion as gospel, even if you formulate in such a way you are not liable for people taking your advice to heart.
Yeah even though the message is technically there, way too many people are going to read the title and watch the first half and think they don't need armor anymore.
I can agree with F9 that standards should be challenged if there’s opportunity for improvement for the end-user, and any shortcomings they have should be known - but just writing off these inserts because bone strength < insert energy mitigation in a one dimensional controlled test irks me.
@@uncleren Exactly. Especially with the focus on broken bones, which are not the most common injury in crashes. Bruises, abrasions and lacerations are way more common. Having experienced injuries like that, I always use body armour. Every little bit helps.
Yeah the rant comes down to 'if something isn't 100% perfect then it's completely useless' which is silly. Didn't cite anything that says it increases injuries, I don't really understand the angle he took here unless it's just to get people to engage in the comments which clearly worked lol
@@diyfreediver my bad, i was miss spell, i mean bump your head against the pavement, and obviously it was sarcasm! Its very cool that you still skating at this age, im never you to it, and im only 29, but use skatepark with my bicycle and teaching youner generation to use protection:) good luck!
Love the analysis, let’s keep pushing for better standards. So, thank you. That said, I’ll still wear my existing CE-bearing gear (BMW brand) until that next generation gear arrives (conceding that wearing of a fully armored leather race suit is already a superior form of protection, and I’ve done so, it’s just far less comfortable). I’ve always assumed that this cordura stuff with light armor helps up to a point (low speed get-offs and some road rash prevention) but wouldn’t do much to lighten the blow of a bigger impact. I have been down on the street in a non armored Vanson jacket that held up really well; though there’s nothing that leather can do for your soft outer parts that don’t like hitting the ground. No rash - bad bruising. I’ll keep wearing the best gear I can for my style of riding (long sport touring on mostly rural roads) and do everything that I can to avoid putting it to the test. When and if (and likely more the former) something does occur, I’ll hope that it helps enough to prevent permanent injury - or that your work here has been realized in stronger, more protective armor. I really need to buy an air vest. 👏
New rider here buying my first bike soon. I appreciate Ryan never taking safety gear promises at face value, especially regarding helmets. But I'll join most others here saying: I'll definitely be wearing pads. I expect I could take a spill or two and the less damage I take the more quickly I'll get back on that horse. I like my skin where it is.
Well your conclusion got it right - protect your skins, not your bones since the CE won't absorb enough to protect from break. I'd say $ better spent on quality abrasion protection in that case, i.e. I'll take kevlar over foam.
he doesn't even consider low speed crashes and simple falls. like say you're simply going too fast for a turn at an intersection and fall going twenty miles an hour. low chance of bone breakage or road rash, but would you rather land on your elbow without a pad, or with a pad? i'm definitely not going to stop wearing pads.
@@thinkdunson I think the studies he read from did take into consideration all crashes, including low speed ones. You will fracture your elbow even in a low speed crash (30mph), with or without pad. I suspect your speed going forwards is irrelevant to the downwards force on to your elbow in a simple ‘falling over’ crash, sure it will add major abrasion damage as the bike speed is a horizontal force, but your speed at falling downwards will remain the same, as it's just acceleration of gravity. Unless you get launched up into the air of course. But yeah, if you get launched horizontally into something, no pad will save you I mean I'm still gonna wear pads haha, but they will not save you from any impact force
Think about it... what he says makes total sense. If you are going 110mph and get launched from your bike are those little armor pads are really going to do jack all for your fall... a fall at that speed is going to massively hurt and the last thing in your mind will be "Well I hope that pad helps my fall". Its going to be "OHH SHIT this is going to hurt". He is right when he says they will help for abrasions but at the end of the day if you break a bone that is under those pads... what use was the pad?
Another great vid and I too have taken "some" bulky pads out of my hi vis jacket. Reading the comments from the Doc's re-iterate what you said is that the armour does provide or lessens abrasive injuries and I agree. I keep forearm protection in just for that purposes to lessen the pain of the skid burn. Kinda like wearing knee pads for volleyball or hockey, its gonna hurt and likely cause fracture but those burns linger.
This video has started a huge debate that will surely improve impact protection on jackets , improve standards for jackets and better rider understanding on how protection works and what to buy. For this alone , it was worth it. Thanks !
Yeah. I agree. He's very influential and so many riders might just stop wearing protective gear because to them what he says is gospel truth. Maybe he should've spent more time in clarifying his disclaimer because it's scary for riders to just drop everything and stop wearing gear
I think you will have to have a large contingent of the motorcycle riding community to, en mass, approach the manufacturers and demand better protection and variety (of size of pads) before they would voluntarily do such an expensive venture. But keep up the hope!
@@_titojoe they didn't listen very well then. He stopped wearing the slide in pads, because he's wearing different armor / airbag. Not because he settled wearing any protection. That only discusses his upper body back armor. He didn't talk about other parts. He is wearing either an airbag or fancy external back armor. He didn't stop and wear nothing. He didn't even say that the regular stuff was without utility, just not good enough.
I know a guy who was on the way to a viking re enactments show who fell off going into the Dartford tunnel under the Thames. The shower of sparks his mail shirt gave was most spectacular and absolutely freeked the people in the cars following him .the best bit was when he got up checked himself and with a few bruises carried on to the show .....he got a few more bruises from the Saxon hord he fought 👍
@cedhome7945 I used to do that back in late 90s (Regia Anglorum, Yorvingerhead, York) Wore chain mail vest... it weighed 7 stone!!! wish I still had it lol. Ta for memory unlock 👍🖖
I’m not removing pads. I know for a fact they have helps me on some crashes. Ryan has like 100x the experience I will ever have. As a less experienced rider, pads have protected me.
I have much more experience riding than Ryan and this video is hooey! I've been riding for nearly 30 years, all over the world and on every kind of bike, and I've crashed in dozens of different situations. Even if pads don't protect from every possible injury, I know that they have protected me from way more injuries than when I rode without them. I'm keeping them in, too! And Ryan is gonna get people hurt with this video.
Same! Starting next year to ride again after 5 Years I know the risk of minor Incidents will be high, exactly where Pads will help. But also the Helite Airbag Backpack will be a part of the Equipment, because People drive like Maniacs around here...
@@werepat It's april 1'st man. Not exactly the best time to take things seriously. That being said, it's obvious that if someone's actually taking the pads out, that person may have had a few sips of the kerosene we use to clean chains. Obviously, a push for better pads and more coverage/sizes is great. But they reduce impact forces to some extent. That alone is more than enough justification.
Literally anything other than nothing would be, though. Thats the point. If we are just trying to avoid scrapes, you can do it much better and much thinner than a giant armor pad.
Yep. I took a slide The only places I lost skin were where there were no pads. (3 places none more than 1" diameter.) Burn through was on one finger, side of knee, and ankle.
Foam is a terrible material to protect against abrasion, its just too soft. You could stuff cheddar in place of the foam and accomplish the same thing.
I had a knee debridement a couple years ago...rather have passed a kidney stone (passed several of those). Cinder gravel on cement, I was wearing off road type MX pants and Fox Titan knee guards which shifted on impact.
Life is so beautiful, our instinct is gonna be to protect it. But our imperative, we have to remember, is to appreciate it. I did not expect that from this channel. Love it!
I generally like your content...and understand the argument, but having had a good few crashes over 40 years of riding, I have experienced crashes both with and without CE armour. I currently wear Forcefield armour and it has, without a doubt, been highly effective at reducing injuries. As has the sorbothane armour in my old BKS leathers. Major impacts will break bones, but the trauma and damage will be reduced or eliminated for lower impacts. I continue to wear CE armour.
Hmm, strange approach here. I had a bad motorbike crash 10 months ago. My knee was injured with a fracture. I was full gear equiped BUT, without my knee armor, my knee would be destroyed, not just fractured, and today, repaired. I think the armor goal, was not to prevent fracture, but to absord energy to reduce the damage. Sorry for my english, i'm a french rider who wear full gear... still ^^ Have a nice day, and I hope for you that you will never had a bad crash, without your armor gears. Ride safe people, life is too short ;). Best regards.
Your armor mainly spread the blunt impact across the entire protected area. Without armor a portion of your knee would have taken all the impact, likely having a more severe outcome. Kudos for using it.
that's exactly what he said...the rating is a joke, it doesn't prevent damage just soften the blow and removes the road rash and other inconveniences. BUT the point is still there - why the bar/standard is set so low? Because manufacturers had it set this way with the help regulatory companies. And the latter did mention that is the minimum and manufacturers can go higher but the former don't, due to cost and uneducated consumers. Would you even look at the 2.5k jacket when there is a $500 one right next to it on the rack? If you did you would see the "low" cost one has the minimum standard for safety (15N) while the higher priced one guarantees
Your English makes way more sense than Ryan’s it won’t stop fractures like horse rider kit (which also wouldn’t at the speeds and G loadings of motorcycle CE standards by the way) so throw it away! Reducing the seriousness of fractures and eliminating them on more minor impacts is entirely the point! My impact pads are staying in!
Timeous, last night I was contemplating reinstalling my body armour as I had just discovered it lurking in a suitcase..thought about how it changed my gear, how effective it would be knowing my 'style' of riding and decided to forego the operation. Then, you come along and in a most eloquent manner confirm my suspicions which I had never really contemplated. Regulatory capture indeed..
This is irresponsible clickbait and you 100% know it. Anyone who’s had spills with and without armor knows the injuries are worse when we are NOT wearing armor. You just did your audience a major disservice.
That was not my takeaway. The video made me realize that this type of protective gear has serious limitations, even when conforming to standards, and that I should be very careful about the brand that I select. He's exposing a flaw that the industry needs to correct, and ultimately, the decision to ride carefully and dress accordingly is up to each individual. That said, it's true that he was a bit too "black and white" about fractures. He should have specified that fractures from a lower-energy impact tend to heal faster and engender less lasting damage.
