Why I want to traditionally publish || Pros and Cons of Traditional vs Self Publishing

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I have had a few requests to go over why I am planning on pursuing traditional publishing and the pros and cons as I see them. Of course, I am not in their publishing industry so I just tried to include as much research and references as I could, but if I say anything you know to be untrue because you are in the industry, PLEASE let me know below! There are a lot of misconceptions out there and I don't want to contribute to them.
Also, given the recent drama with the PRH lawsuit and Barnes and Noble, I just want to add that this hasn't changed my opinions on trad vs self pub.
ALSO also, I didn't mention this in the video, but the concept of self-publishing being so pay-to-play is definitely a problem that I hope to hear more people talking about!
00:00 - Intro
02:41 - History of my plan
03:09 - Pros of Self Pub
10:38 - Cons of Self Pub
24:12 - Cons of Trad Pub
29:13 - Pros of Trad Pub
32:55 - Why I'm Going Trad Pub
There are a LOT of links below, but I hope you can find something helpful!
--- Self-Published Author RU-vid Channels
The Courtney Project - / thecourtneyproject
Heart Breathings - / @heartbreathings
Author Sarah Sutton - / authorsarahsutton
Abbie Emmons - / abbieemmons
--- Traditionally-Published Author RU-vid Channels
Alexa Donne - / alexadonne
Brandon Sanderson - / brandsanderson
Stephen Aryan - / stephenaryan44
Lindsay Puckett - / lindsaypuckett
Liselle Sambury - / lisellesambury
Michelle Schusterman - / michelleschustermanauthor
--- Self and trad pub articles and videos:
Royalty Rate - publishdrive.com/what-is-the-...
scribemedia.com/self-publishi....
Stephen Aryan and Michelle Schusterman - Traditional Publishing Livestream with Michelle Schusterman
• Traditional Publishing...
Alexa Donne - The Pros & Cons of Traditional Publishing
• The Pros & Cons of Tra...
Alexa Donne - Money Mindsets in Indie vs. Trad Publishing
• Money Mindsets in Indi...
Stephen Aryan - Getting Your Book Published Overseas:
• Writing Advice - Getti...
Stephen Aryan and Caelan Peters - The Pros and Cons of Self Publishing and Traditional Publishing
• The Pros and Cons of S...
Michelle Schusterman - Let's talk about traditional publishing vs self publishing
• Let's talk about tradi...
Brandon Sanderson - Brandon Sanderson Lecture 10: Mechanics of Self Publishing Online (6/8)
• Brandon Sanderson Lect...
Brandon Sanderson - Lecture #12: Publishing Part One - Brandon Sanderson on Writing Science Fiction and Fantasy
• Lecture #12: Publishin...
Liselle Sambury - Playlist on Publishing: experiences from a traditional published author
• How I Organize My Writ...
Lindsay Puckett - HOW I GOT MY BOOK DEAL
• HOW I GOT MY BOOK DEAL
Heart Breathings - How I Sold Over Half A Million Books Self-Publishing
• How I Sold Over Half A...
Author Sarah Sutton - WHY I'M SELF-PUBLISHING MY SECOND BOOK | Self-Publishing my YA Fake Relationship OUT OF MY LEAGUE!
• WHY I'M SELF-PUBLISHIN...
Abbie Emmons - WHY I CHOSE INDIE PUBLISHING (it's not for the $$$)
• WHY I CHOSE INDIE PUBL...
--- Articles on Publishing Income:
www.forbes.com/sites/jeremygr...
www.theguardian.com/books/201...
www.authorsguild.org/industry...
----- LINKS -----
Website: www.madelinejameswrites.com/
Instagram: / author_mjames
Twitter: / author_mjames

Опубликовано:

4 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 36

@user-qw8im6dd5u 9 месяцев назад

I am on the same journey as you are. This is perhaps the best and most candid assessment of Self vs Trad publishing i have seen. Thank you so much.

@madelinejameswrites 9 месяцев назад

Of course!! Glad you enjoyed it

@authorkyliemacdougall Год назад

A lot of great info in this video, and a few pros/cons that I haven't actually thought of yet. The number of times I've flipped back and forth on this decision is nuts lol. I appreciate that you included very realistic timelines and energy/time demands required for both. Also, it's not common to have a writer share that they actually enjoy their day job and don't want to leave it, so that's kind of refreshing to hear. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

@madelinejameswrites Год назад

Thank you! This video definitely ended up way longer than I expected 😂 I feel like I just keep learning more tidbits over time and the lists just get longer.

@alexc7860 10 месяцев назад

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, it was interesting to watch, and thanks for the channel recommendations! Writing can be a lonely endeavour, it's good to see some of what other writers are experiencing ❤

@leebrown1049 Год назад

Great video with a lot of information I've never heard from any other RU-vidr. Thank you

@LeahRummel Год назад

I love this👏🏻 I feel the same way about a lot of your reasons to choose trad pub over self pub. I can’t wait to see our books next to each other on my shelf 💛😂

@madelinejameswrites Год назад

AHHHH yesss!!!!

@0chuklz0 8 месяцев назад

You make a number of very good points in this video. I understand the advantages that people go on about with self-publishing, but none of that matters if you can't afford to do the polishing required to make it 'look' good. It won't matter if you don't have the ability to advertise your novel to a large enough audience. I know my biggest weak point is pretty much everything outside of the writing. I have written two novels now, I ended up self-publishing the first one and while I am proud of that novel, it has made next to no sales and I am sure that is a combination of advertising and polishing. I have been querying a lot for the second one (I did it for the first as well, but after 30-40 query rejections I stopped trying), and I will keep at this until I start the third novel. Best of luck on your writing.

@AmyLuLuWrites Год назад

I so resonate with this video - I have the same fears that you do, which is also why I’m pursuing tradpub. I have a lot of friends who Indy publish and I respect the heck out of them! But like you said I need the validation.

@OnefortheBooks Год назад

Loved this and your thoughts on it. I'm working on my first novel right now too and it's definitely something I'm weighing the pros and cons of as well. Thanks for the recommendations for other authortubers, I already followed a couple you recommended but got a few more good ones out of this!

@madelinejameswrites Год назад

Glad I could help! It's definitely a personal decision. I play on querying starting at the end of June!

@OnefortheBooks Год назад

@@madelinejameswrites Good luck! I will be following along and crossing my fingers for you. ☺

@rachels9368 10 месяцев назад

Just found this and I love it. I completely agree with everything you said. Despite that, I think I'm actually picking the self-publishing route. I queried a fair few agents when I was leaning the other way, and got a couple full requests, which kinda ticked that gatekeeper validation. I don't have kids, so I do have a bit more time than you do and probably could write 1-2 books a year. Plus I don't love my career, so quitting doesn't feel as much of a con!

@madelinejameswrites 10 месяцев назад

That sounds like self-publishing would be a much better fit for your situation then! I can't disagree that learning all the other sides of publishing could be a lot of fun, and there's something to be said about being your own boss! Either way I hope it works out for you!

@starbright6579 Год назад

I decided to traditional publish my books too. Now however, I'm don't just want to speak about money because I'm not traditional publishing to make money, but I do want to make money from my writing because I do have bills to pay, I need to eat, and I need money to survive and traditional publishing I will be able to get an agent to help me sell my books because I'm not a seller I'm a writer, so yes I need an agent. Another thing why I want to traditional publish is because your book will get made into a movie faster than indie publishing and self publishing. Now I would never write a book just for the money, but I do need to survive and I want to be an author because I'm passionate about it, as in other words if I'm writing a story and not making money off it then why waste my time writing it? Now I see some people wanting to be something just to brag about oh I want to be rich, I don't like to hear that. But I do want to make money from my writing because I need to survive I need money to buy me food.

@landonp629 Год назад

In terms of income - that depends. I think there are really TWO cases here. First, you have the author that all/or: 1) doesn't want to do anything but write. 2) lacks the business management and/or marketing skills. 3) Doesn't want to run a publishing company. AND 4) doesn't mind playing the long game. If you fall into this category, go traditional. That author either doesn't have the desire or time to do anything but write books, lacks the skills needed to market a book, or doesn't want to run a publishing company - which is effectively what becoming a self-published author is. If you treat self-publishing like you treat traditional, you will fail. Countless self-published authors I talk to complain that they don't make any money - and when I ask what they are doing to promote their book, they tell me 'I put it on KDP'. No wonder they didn't make any money. You CANNOT submit your files to a self-publishing printer and expect sales to be generated like you would submitting to a publisher. YOU are the publisher. It's not for everyone, and that is understandable. I think in many cases, the authors who lack these skills who self-publish 'drag down' the numbers from successful self-published authors who put in the effort to market their book, which is why the numbers are so low. Second, you have the author that all/or: 1) Has business experience and marketing experience, or doesn't mind learning those skills. 2) Thinks it could be fun to run a publishing company. 3) Has the skills needed bring a book to market with a little money as possible. If you fall into this category, like me, self-publish. Take the time to learn how a program like Vellum or Atticus works so you can layout your own book and save hundreds of dollars. Take the time to learn graphics design so you can design your own cover. This route requires a financial outlay, even if you are doing most of the work yourself. You need to set aside marketing money, you need to setup your publishing business. This is probably the most rewarding way to go, but you have to be willing to put in that effort. Not everyone is, and that is fine. ANOTHER POINT When it comes to self-published authors making less than traditional - again, it depends. Traditionally published authors who already have an agent are churning out books that get picked up regularly can certainly do better than some indie authors. However, that number is VERY small. And for the first-time author going traditional - you MIGHT well earn that $10,000 advance on your first book - but it might also take you 3-5 years after its written to ever see it in print, or see that money. In that same period, a self-published author could have 10-20 books out, with an avid reader base - and making more than $10,000 a year, much more in some cases. Again, I think the low-effort self-published authors drag down what ACTUAL indie authors who approach it from a business standpoint actually make.

@madelinejameswrites Год назад

Yeah I've definitely seen a big difference from self pub authors that essentially put as much effort in as a publishing house vs ones that do minimal marketing etc.

@denniszenanywhere 10 месяцев назад

I really appreciate this perspective just as Madeline's. I have more than 12 years of experience in three careers -- I was a former journalist who became an ad copywriter for big PR and ad agencies, and who eventually led my own small marketing agency, doing all the marketing work. So it seems like it makes sense for me to do self-publishing, but it's not that easy. I would say if one is doing literary fiction, especially if it takes on the spirit of the times, I'd most likely recommend going the traditional pub route as trad pubs can milk anything that's trending more effectively; they can do the publicity and pitches to media for coverage more effectively, building on that momentum with reviews from media, getting your book to the most influential people. Having worked in big PR and ad agencies, a team of people working on your book can work wonders. As for self-publishing, I still have my doubts given that as a marketer, it's still not easy to market any book out there without the established relationships or pull of a big publisher. It's a lot of work to self-publish. Like I always tell people, the technology is the easy part, it's the marketing effectively in a noisy, crowded marketplace that is hard. I think it will depend on the type of book one is writing. An author writing a book for his or her ethnic community would definitely not make much money, if self-publishing. The broader and wider the market for the book is essential for self-publishing. Madeline, did I miss it or you didn't talk about translations for the book? If you're self-publishing, how are you going to set aside budget to translate them in different languages? Asia and Europe can be big markets for your books, if it doesn't work in the States. Would trad publishers produce translations for you -- and in how many languages?

@akossiwak Год назад

Maybe don't equate getting past gatekeepers with validation... Rejections on full requests hit differently... Especially when you're at a level where you have a reasonable grasp on craft. Cheering for you on your journey!

@madelinejameswrites Год назад

That makes a lot of sense! And yeah it's definitely not the best way to get validation, I just find that I don't trust people I pay to give me a good idea of how good I am... Maybe that'll be better with more experience!

@jonathanbaumler Год назад

I was kind of taken back when I heard that as a con, because writing is subjective. What if a lot of readers would love your book, but for some reason critics are not talking the greatest about it so they steer away from it. Whereas a lot of user reviews online could lead to more eyes in your books. I guess I just wouldn’t equate making my dreams becoming a reality on the basis of someone “thinking” it’s “good enough.”

@t0dd000 3 месяца назад

I go back and forth on this. 1. It's rare for any of us to make any real money on our books. So, that wins no argument either way. 2. Traditional publishing means you lose control of your work. To include next editions, new covers, etc. But ... 3. Traditional publishing means you get on buying lists for libraries and bookstores. I have accepted that I'll never make any money on this, but man, I want to be in libraries. 3b.. You can get in libraries and bookstores as a self publisher, but it is all on you to champion your work to each and every outlet. 4. Self-publushing is far more expensive. You need a cover designer, probably a book designer, a paid editor. If you don't do these things, you are either really talented, or you released crap. 4b. Traditional publishing means you get paid an advance and you didn't pay for polishing you book. 5. Self publishing has a stigma. And deservedly so. The average self-pub book is of low quality, still needs editing, with a crappy cover. There are tremendous self-published books, but the category is rife with awful. People don't trust it. Note. The self publishing process is not shorter. It can be, if you release the book before it is ready. If you take the design and editing seriously, it takes just as long as traditional publishing.

@michaelchurch1324 2 месяца назад

16:13 I hate to be the bearer of bad news, although I would argue that this is good news: Getting into traditional publishing will definitely *not* prove that you're a decent writer, to you or anyone else. You have to keep working on your craft until you've convinced yourself that you're good or, at least, that you've done your job and taken the work seriously, which is all anybody can ask for. The "Am I Talented?" question is almost like the existence of God or an afterlife-you'll never truly know, and you can't do anything about it, so the best way forward is to live as best you can in acceptance of not knowing the answer. There are fantastic writers who never get published at all, and there are shitty ones who win awards and sell millions of copies, and even in the weird case where a really good author sells millions of copies, he or she is still going to be asking if it was all a fluke. Good writers tend to be people who question everything; this includes, at least on occasion, one's own talent. Traditional publishing can kill your confidence, say, if your first book doesn't sell and your agent drops you. And this is not a great time for epic fantasy in trade-a lot of authors are being smacked with word count limitations, because the industry has decided that epic fantasy is unfashionable (although there are plenty of readers who still want it.) On the same token, self-publishing is difficult and not everyone has the time and money to figure out how to do it well-and the rules are always changing, and the amount of power certain tech companies have is way too high. Ultimately, trad vs. self is a business decision and nothing more. Looking at both options, and see what's best with the resources and opportunities you have, and don't take it too personally either way. Whichever path you choose, I wish you the best!

@StephenAryan44 Год назад

Good luck with getting traditionally published!

@madelinejameswrites Год назад

Thank you! Also I finally watched a video where you pronounced your last name, sorry for saying it wrong! 😬

@StephenAryan44 Год назад

@@madelinejameswrites it's fine, no worries 😀

@landonp629 Год назад

You are making a mistake by assuming only the gatekeepers can gauge a good book. If you are getting good reviews and your readers love you book, it's a good book. Period. You *aren't* writing your book for the entertainment of editors and agents - you are writing it for your readers. Often times, agents and editors are so jaded by everything they read that they don't necessarily look for GOOD books, they look for marketable books. Agents and editors are in the business of making money, and that means selling/buying a MARKETABLE book, not necessarily a good book. My issue with the traditional route is - you can have the best book every written, a literal masterpiece - but if it doesn't fit the current trend of selling books - you'll get rejected. It's ALL about marketing in the traditional publishing space. Publishers are not investing $20,000 in a book print run because they love your book, they are doing it because they have a good hunch it will sell. In many respects, it's a lot like Hollywood vs. Indie films. How many 'good' movies does Hollywood make a year? A handful maybe. Most are just fluff filler with a big marketing campaign to hook the opening weekend crowd. This is not the say agents and editors are not looking for quality books -- they are, but they are doing it from a different motivation than you think. So there are many valid reasons to avoid self-publishing, and you touch on some of them here, and it's not for everyone - but validation by the book industry is NOT a valid reason anyone should be making the decision on, because agent and editor validation doesn't mean you wrote a good book, it means you wrote a book that fits the market at the time and is passable quality.

@madelinejameswrites Год назад

I definitely get what you're saying. I'm not sure if this came across in the video, but I definitely don't think only trad pub gatekeepers can gauge a good book. I think it's hard imagining what state a book will be in after professional editors, but my hope is either an agent will say yeah, this is marketable and good enough quality etc., And then I'll know, or at some point as I continue learning and growing I'll get to the point that I think I can my books are good enough and marketable enough to publish (and if I don't have an agent at that point, I might turn to self publish). I definitely think it'll take me a few books to really grow enough that I'm writing at a quality I'd want to publish at. I'm also a perfectionist so I might think I'm ready WAY later than an agent/editor might haha

@rielemi5862 7 месяцев назад

I'm on that part of the video right now, and you just articulated my thoughts. Thank you. I suppose it also depends on the publisher you're eyeing. There are a couple of publishers who put out books of questionable quality but sell really, really well -- think sleazy material with terrible grammar. In OP's words, "crap" and "mediocre." Then, there are publishers who are very picky and release only headed-for-classical material. The books don't always sell well, but they praised by the literary elite. Those two are extremes, of course. I'm presently going down the self-publishing route 'cause I'm too impatient for trad. To address the quality concern, aside from beta readers, I also hired a developmental editor. She is very pointed and constructive with her advice, and she has years of education and expertise. This is how I address the impostor syndrome and validation issues that come with self-publishing. Also want to share that after self-publishing, that's when I'll look into traditional. At least when I submit to a trad publisher, my book's already polished, and I can show them sales history and those things. Thanks for the video. :)

@rolandolopez847 6 месяцев назад

But when you get turned down by 50 literary agents with only two full manuscript requests despite the novel being copy, line and developmentally edited, and your 10 beta readers loved the book then you self publish

@madelinejameswrites 6 месяцев назад

It will really depend on how I feel about my skills, but yeah! I'm about ready to shelve my first book and I did all that editing, got good feedback from betas, etc. But I'm still learning so fast that I know that book isn't anywhere close to what my best is going to be after another book or two.

@isaacriggs4656 7 месяцев назад

There is no "x" in "especially. You profess to be a writer?

@madelinejameswrites 7 месяцев назад

Thanx 😊

@toddjacksonpoetry 7 месяцев назад

@@madelinejameswrites Xcellent response! Writers often drink too much coffee. Our fingers get shaky. Typos might ensue. Great discussion. As my handle suggests, my genre is poetry - a very odd genre of poetry, unwelcome to many publishers, at that. I'm going to self-publish my book, but totally respect you and your path. When I write that hard SF novel of my dreams I'll probably join you in traditional publishing. But not today.