Why is everyone so divided? - Thor: Love & Thunder Spoiler Review 

No Caravan Of Garbage this week, we've decided to the occasional one week break between franchises. So this thing instead wow can you believe it!

The best part of the movie is when Christian Bale physically restrained the other actors to keep them from making quips while he acted his goddamn ass off to carry the film.

The payoff for the screaming goats, either in the movie or a mid credits scene would be to suddenly stop screaming and be voiced by two very well known British or posh voice actors. And have them have a conversation.

I feel that the problem with the movie is that there's no sense of urgency or real danger throughout the whole film; when the Asgardian kids were kidnapped it rapidly turned into a joke; we never see "the god butcher" actually killing (except for the opening scene) nor even fighting gods. For me at least is really hard to invest on a story like that.

Highly disagree with James on this one. There should have definitely been scenes of Gorr actually killing gods so that we could see how much of menace he actually is. Not getting those it just feels like he’s a threat because the movie says so & we never actually get to see why. We get some of the aftermath of his killings but it wasn’t much & they could’ve made them feel more horrific to emphasize that Gorr needed to be stopped.

I agree with people that are saying the VFX in marvel movies isn't that good anymore. I have to say though, it's no fault of the VFX artists. I have three mates that worked on this film and many other Marvel projects in the past, and unfortunately, the VFX industry is one that is sorely mistreated by the Hollywood system. It also sucks that when a VFX house bids on a project/shot package, Disney for example, will always seek out a studio that will be more cost effective. VFX houses will then try outbid each other to see who can do the work for the lowest amount possible, even if it means a studio will end up taking a loss on a project, with zero profit, just so they can build their portfolio. What sucks even more is that Disney and other studios encourage this behaviour which only hurts the studios and its artists. The worst part is the hours these artists are essentially forced to work just to meet Disney's deadlines. My mates have worked 70 hour work weeks on average, barely see people or get sleep. It's crap. Not to mention, when a studio accepts a VFX house's bid for a project, that budget is locked. And Disney is known for making multiple revisions to their projects which the budget given simply can't justify, but gets done anyway. That's why you get not so great looking VFX. Studios like Disney burn out artists and don't pay them enough for their work. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

I think the issue Mason is trying to get at is that no one in the movie reacts to the idea that maybe Gorr is actually right. We see all these horrible Gods in the movie and none of the characters react in any meaningful way. This movie really needed a scene where either Thor or Jane questioned this dilemma and whether or not they needed to stop Gorr. Because based on what we see, the only reason the heroes have a cause to go after him is because he kidnapped the kids. If that plot element is removed from the movie what actual motivation do our heroes have to go on this journey? This movie was really missing a scene like that to give it an actual backbone.

I really just wanted the final scene to pan over to reveal Sif's arm in Valhalla.

“He’s corrupted by the thing or whatever!” Is exactly the kind of analysis I want for the mcu

For a god butcher, we sure don't see him kill that many gods lol

The sword should have been Hela's sword. Not only is it then a nice piece of continuity (destroying Hela directly leading to Gorr), not only does it makes sense that it is the goddess of death that can kill other gods, but they have actually already used the Necrosword's look and abilities for Hela in Ragnarok (like when she grows giant black spikes out of the ground to attack Surtur with, that's a comic book Necrosword copy).

They really wasted Christian Bale and Gorr. I was really excited when I heard he was playing the god butcher, but I was so disappointed with his limited screentime, and not enough god fights/deaths. For a 2 hour movie, it felt way too short and empty.

I wouldn't be mad if the first 50 minutes was James going "anyway, Thor Love and Thunder, PSYCH IT'S STILL US FROM THE BEGINNING" with a one-minute review of the movie

My favorite part was when Jane whispered into Thors ear, “It’s Thorbing Time”

"Why is everyone so divided?" Yeah everyone should just chill and try to multiply instead

I think it would’ve been interesting if when they found out they “wager” on how many lives have been sacrificed in the god’s names, Thor or Jane starts to second guess if they should stop Gorr from killing gods. That Thor has to find it in himself to still do the right thing at the end of the day cause he’s a hero even though the gods he’s saving, aren’t good people. That would’ve been interesting to see him struggle with.

Thanos wasted 10 years looking for 6 infinity stones. All he had to do was find 1 Eternity and wish for half of the universe to stop existing

*Fun Fact:* Out of the five worst critically rated MCU movies, THREE of them are from Phase 4.

It felt like it was originally two movies then condensed into one. So much backstory for the Thor and Jane relationship, Thor dealing with loss and being with the Guardians, Gorr was great but honestly we needed more of him or more of them trying to find him to establish how much of a threat he was. It felt like a ton crammed into one movie that had originally been two.

Masons review is SPOT ON. This movie felt like a parody of Thor (in the style of Meet the Spartans) except with all the actual actors and a massive budget.

15:12 I know it was a throwaway joke but I can't forget the bit where Thor says they don't eat children anymore. That's the sort of thing that my brain latches onto when it does universe/world building outside of the movies

I personally wasn't a huge fan of the child soldiers getting the power of Thor. Mainly because these are like 5 year Olds that Thor is sending to battle with creatures that Asgard soldiers struggled to fight. Also, Thor being able to bestow his powers to whoever he wants would have been really useful in the battle against Thanos before he snapped or in Endgame.

i think if done better, the “humor to hide the depression” wouldve hit harder if not completely dogpiled by jokes

Mjolnor may have sensed that the cancer was going to kill her no matter what, but turning Jane into a god granted her passage into Valhalla

Team A : Laughed all the way. Team B : A total mess of movie and development of its characters.

My favorite part of this movie is when it took every single chance to flanderize and make fun of Thor for having feelings and trauma, with the end-of-movie payoff being a bandaid-daughter.

How about we stop making Thor Stupid? Dude's over 1500 years old, he should be a bit more intelligent. Sure not on the levels of Banner or Stark. But he definitely should be one of the best fighters

I liked whatever movie Christian Bale was acting in.

It feels so much smaller than Ragnarok. But it should not considering the stakes.. but you didnt feel it. They should have focued more on the Jane story or Gorrs story. I dont think they had time for both. i loved the ending of the movie to be fair but i think overall, taika has made Thor as a character the best hes been on the big screen. but there gets to a point where you cant lean into the comedy so much. taika needs to make us feel the stakes. thats what he missing in these movies. Thor loses everything, but all that build up feels lost when its all made a joke out of.

I really hope Bao, the God of Dumplings, isn't a bad god 😰

The movie didn’t make me care about Gorr as a threat (apart from him kidnapping the children). He’s a killed a bunch of so-called gods, leaving their followers with free will and no longer dependent on worshipping false idols. Exactly why is that bad for the universe?

13:11 I think the problem is: Marvel gave this job to Taika because Ragnarök was so popular. This combined with the other major issue: the decision to adapt Gorr The God Butcher AND Mighty Thor into a two hour piece. Those stories deserve some breathing room, yes, but they also demand a more serious tone. Taika has proven he isn’t the best at filming a serious, joke-less scene when it is warranted. With that being said, I do enjoy some of the things he and Jennifer Kayton Robinson were able to do within that framework. Gorr is still menacing and cool and somewhat interesting, despite deserving more severity and screen time; the last two pre-credits scenes are really touching; and a lot of the jokes did land for me. I consciously went in with an optimistic mindset, which helped me enjoy it more than Maso. I’d forgotten about the Marvel Formula. I will also admit the stakes feel way too low. Gorr literally plans on fulfilling his quest using a wishing well, which is quite abstract for a plot coupon. And Gorr doesn’t feel as threatening as he could’ve since we only see him Butcher one God.

I loved how much screen time they gave to Thor's super big insane bright red cape... but just the sholder part. It took up so much of the screen.

Not sure if it was intentional or by accient but when Jane says it's been 3 years, and thor says it's been 8 years - If Jane was snapped away it would only have been 3 years for her, so they were actually both right. Nice detail

I liked it, not as good as Thor Ragnarok but as a He-Man and the Masters of the Universe movie it was great. Lady Sif however was utterly wasted, Valkyrie was just kinda there, Korg was more annoying than funny, Jane’s cancer was more interesting than her being a Thor. Also could’ve used more Christian Bale butchering a bunch of gods I agree.

Taika went full Taika and turns out I don’t love Taika. Also hurts the movie a little bit not to have the X factor that is Loki. In Ragnorok he adds an element of mystery and intrigue. Without him in LNF it’s just four good guys on the way to stop the bad. Not horrible but less intriguing.

I think part of the issue with this new film is that the silliness overshadowed the other critical parts of Thor’s character that fans have come to love since Ragnarok. In Ragnarok there was jokes, fun, and improv. Chris Hemsworth really shined at the new “comedic” moments not seen in the first two Thor films and brought an enjoyable new life to the character. But on the other hand, Odin’s death had weight. Loki’s scenes had weight. Asgard’s destruction had weight. This seriousness carried over into Infinity War where Thor had nothing left and was at his lowest, on a warpath which resulted in failure when Thanos snapped. Then in Endgame he had to deal with that failure, and while elements of his character remained comedic, the “fractures” from Ragnarok and Infinity War basically had now broken him in a serious way that made fan’s hearts sink. He had to come back from that. He had to crawl himself from that pit. Thor Love and Thunder focused almost entirely on silliness, and left behind the “weighted” part of Thor’s arc from Ragnarok, Infinity War and Endgame. The “BRING ME THANOS!” part of him was left behind almost entirely in favor of the “gag / comedy” part of Thor. I expected more serious and emotional tones when he spoke with Jane about how he’s afraid to love again. I expected more serious tones when he had to tell the Asgardian children not to fear. There could have been jokes here and there - but throughout the film it’s gag after gag after gag - and we only get to see the “funny / meme” part of Thor, which is why fans might be upset. I wanted to see this film give Thor the love and hope he has been missing in a weighted and emotional way as he deserves. Instead I saw every moment of plot seem to be punctuated by a punchline which really made me feel like the Thor from Infinity War is being disrespected.

I found gorr telling Jane the gods will use you interesting because thor told Mjolnir to look out for Jane but it was right there when thor told her one more power up would kill her, yet it still called to her for that last one. It did not protect her you can say it used her

The only thing I was disappointed by with Gor was there was no moment where Gor challenges Thor's world view. That was a big deal in the comics, and leads to "Unworthy Thor" later on. That aside I thought the movie was fun, and Christian Bale delivered a powerful performance of a complex character.

I think it depends on whether the humor lands for you and whether you care about things like character development and consistency.

I genuinely spent the entire movie annoyed that I wasn’t watching Top Gun Maverick instead. The characters aren’t taking ANYTHING seriously. One second, kids are being kidnapped and the next, people are quipping. If they don’t care, neither do I. Christian Bale was underutilized. Valkyrie should’ve been killed because she genuinely doesn’t do anything. I think maybe I’m too old for the MCU now, and that makes me really sad. I’m not enjoying it anymore.

35:25 - "If we're going to recruit an army of gods to help us, we will need a larger mode of transportation than just Stormbreaker. Some of these gods wouldn't even be able to fit their whole bodies in its beam. But I have an idea..." [cut to big boat with Stormbreaker mounted on the front] There. I would've been fine with that explanation. I can't remember the last time I've seen a film hand wave so much before.

"you're not like the other gods I've killed" I dont remember this in the movie but it was in the trailer. Would have been a great line would it not?

the fact that he lost hes eye in the last one and they just rewinded it like nothing happened says so much about the mcu and this movie

The problem seems to be that they went all out to try and be a comedy, with the slight problem of it being really not that funny. It really seems like the mcu is eating itself rn. None of the shows are all that good and the movies have been arguably worse.

I thought about walking out in the middle of the movie. It was just non stop silliness. They made Thor a joke.

Did nick just say that the antagonist having a good reason is a plot hole? And not compelling narrative? Antagonist doesn’t mean you’re evil. It means your motivations clash with the protagonists’. ‘Evil’ has nothing to do with it lol

The major problem for me is it just wasn’t that funny. I liked the sound of this being so “ridiculous” but it just didn’t make me laugh that much.

I liked the movie, but I will definitely agree with the point that we should have seen Gorr tearing through some gods.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it was explained that stormbreaker had to be put on the boat because it lost focus due to the jealousy thing with mjolnir and the boat helped it focus its power.

I do feel like this was a good movie on paper that maybe got hindered in production. I don't know about everyone else, but I breathed a sigh of relief when thor and jane had their scene on the boat and the tone got more serious. Just trying too hard to be funny for the first bit.

on the topic of jane dieing because of mjolnir. I took that wholy different. the hammer didn't KILL her, she was dieing of cancer. the hammer gave her (superficial) health and energy that made her overcome the sideeffects of the lethargy and weakness, but it didn't cure her of the cancer. at least thats how I read the situation

The MCU is suffering from a joint universe right now. I remember in phase one heroes still had self containing films about them and their universe issues. Now everything is a hero and friends film which is really hurting these films. Let the main characters breakaway from all this joint universe crap and live and breathe on their own.

Don't any of you be surprised when 10 years from now the big bad is the literally planet-sized Galactus. Yet still, our heroes are fighting a generic cgi army in the third act This time the sky beam is coming FROM the sky (gasp)

Marvel still introducing interesting villains and then doing their entire arc in one movie and atomising them, need to give these characters more time to (literally) breathe

Lol Thor asks the Hammer to protect Jane...then it (if you think about it) does the opposite XD

Thor: We have to stop Gorr from killing the gods because that is a bad thing to do! Also Thor: Whoops, just accidentally murdered Zeus, lol.* *Yes, he's alive in the post credits, but Thor still thinks he killed him, and they definitely murdered a ton of his subordinates.

I agree that this film could have been longer for the purposes of further character development.

It all felt very Disney very much made for kids. No darkness or seriousness. It honestly felt like a Nickelodeon show ☹️

On James' point that the film never shows that gods are good, on the first planet with the GOTG they mention everything went to shit when their god died, and then on their ship when they're seeing all the distress calls they talk about how the galaxy is in chaos cos of the god slaughter. But they could have done a better job establishing that

Dang. You guys had me dying with that intro. Clever and silly editing. Hahaha. Goddamit. I love your humor every time.

The Eternity area is NOT filmed on the Volume. It was filmed in the parking lot behind a Best Buy.

As someone who had this running on their TV while they worked, I appreciated the Thor swaps throughout the video

For me Love and Thunder felt more like an SNL skit of a Thor movie for most of it but the jokes don’t land well and runnings gags outstay their welcome. It’s almost cringe. Too many jokes and not enough time to sit in serious dramatic moments that wouldve meant more if it had more room to breathe. Plot and story felt very rushed and we got to things with characters that don’t feel earned in the midst of a million jokes a minute. The emotional beats dont make you feel the way it should. Christian Bale deserved better for sure. He was amazing as Gorr and needed more screentime to show more of his story, character and him actually butchering Gods but it kind of felt out of place in this more comedic movie. Its like if Heath Ledger as Joker in terms of performance and story was thrown into a SNL sketch. Gorr shouldn’t have been the villain for this tone of a movie which sucks to say because Christian Bale was amazing. There were no stakes really. Watched Ragnarok right before Love and Thunder and Ragnarok had a way better balance between jokes, drama, tone, dialogue, story, and character development. And the jokes in Ragnarok landed way better than in Love and Thunder. The theatre i went to only had a big laugh the first time the goats came in and screamed but that was really it. I really didnt like Thors character or his arc much in Love and Thunder. Thor has gone through the most tragedy and loss, yet his character in Love and Thunder is like when he went to SNL to do skits of Thor. He is a caricature, not someone who is humanized or one that you can empathize with. Thors best trilogy and story arc is between Ragnarok, Infinity War, and Endgame.

I feel like the worst part about this movie is marvel proved that even if you have the same director that made previously good movie, we will still get mediocrity.

Personally, I liked this film a lot, but I do think it could have had some more heartfelt moments. Imagine him getting super real while giving a monologue to those kids before that final fight.

I feel like Top Gun 2 kinda turned the volume down on all these lesser summer blockbuster movies. People had gotten so used to these formulaic Marvel movies and other mediocre big budget movies, and suddenly here’s this huge movie that critics AND audiences love that has real stunts, a story with stakes and tension, and a ton of heart. I hope it makes other studios try harder.

13:32 Ah so the “The Last Jedi” defense that defenders of that movie looove to use. 🤣

Anyone else who listens to the podcast still listen to the first minute or so of these vids for that little bit of extra content? This one definitely made it worth it.

It’s really interesting seeing that you two are so conflicted but I happened to agree on different points that you all had made

The one thing I feel they did really well is to outline sort of the insignificance of the Marvel "Gods" and that they're more just people with personalities and quirks that were given these great gifts/powers. They did well showing the scope of things and dumbing down the audience's expectations of them for future films.

I think the sentience of the weapons is more a subconscious manifestation of the caracters. Like, how Thor can conjure Stormbraker at will, he subconsciusly makes this decisions for it, like "oh he must be jealous of Mjolnir" so the axe acts jealous because he thinks of it being jealous.

Lmao that beginning made me laugh so much you guys are so hilarious 😂

I think the issue Mason is trying to get at is that no one in the movie reacts to the idea that maybe Gorr is actually right. We see all these horrible Gods in the movie and none of the characters react in any meaningful way. This movie really needed a scene where either Thor or Jane questioned this dilemma and whether or not they needed to stop Gorr. Because based on what we see, the only reason the heroes have a cause to go after him is because he kidnapped the kids. If that plot element is remote from the movie what actual motivation do our heroes have to go on this journey?

I do think it's funny that the scene in at he end where James says "I could tell it was shot in Volume" was actually filmed in a Best Buy parking lot according to Natalie Portman, so they didn't use Volume for it. ;)

Thor is legitimately STUPID now. He’s a dunce. This movie felt like it was made by an over-hyper child who has way too much sugar.

Hahahah you guys are some of the only people with just random jokes in videos that make me burst out laughing. The fakeout intro joke just killed me hahaha

31:24 That timing on the lightning though 🤣

Spoilers*** I really liked the movie but I agree that the morality of what Gorr was doing should've been explored more between he and Thor. Gorr was kinda right and his justification was compelling. I think a better version of this movie would've had Thorr grapple with the other side of the moral question Gorr was asking. But instead it was just kinda... "You don't wanna kill, you want Love". He was right of course, but Thor's moral standing was never questioned at all, even when he killed Zeus. The best we got was one of those "I'm nothing like you" lines. I would've preferred less jokes and less Korg in favour of an exploration of Gorr's ideology. Lol, and this is coming from someone who liked the movie😄

“They had jokes but some didn’t go anywhere” That’s the part of the comedy in this that was a problem for me. Some of the jokes were indeed funny. They weren’t “gut busting/comedy redefining”jokes but they weren’t bad. Some of the jokes were genuinely not funny, they just fell flat and didn’t go anywhere, but it didn’t take away from enjoying the movie and having fun with it. The movie had its problems but the movie was just ok.

This has got to be the funniest opening to a RU-vid video ever

3 people entered the room where eternity was. Only one made a wish, then died, the other 2 didnt make wishes, and 1 of them then died. As sad as everything was, they were all in a position to end each others suffering and to end any conflict. But instead, basically nothing happened. What a weird way to end your movie.

I am on Maso's side. This was not a very good movie, yet somehow it was better than Dr. Strange 2. I think the MCU phase 4 is really suffering from not having any momentum towards anything. The first phase was building The Avengers, the second phase was breaking the team apart, and the third phase was leading up to Infinity War. What the crap are they doing now? Even if we think they are doing Secret Wars, nobody in the movies are doing any Secret War stuff! They need to stop being coy and just come out and say what they are building towards so these movies have some direction!

“Why did Jane become Thor?!?” ALOT of people genuinely did not pay attention when Thor told Mjolnir to “protect” Jane, which resulted in the hammer engraving a seal on itself as a mark of that “promise to protect”.

Wanted to hear their thoughts but watched the whole video primarily expecting to hear James say at the end, “It’s still us!!” 😂

"Decent, but not as good as Ragnarok..." should be the movie poster tagline for this one. It's entertaining enough, and hits enough beats to be worthy (a-hahah) of your time for a trip to the cinema, but it never quite seems to click like the previous film did. I think part of that is the sense it's trying WAY too hard to be "Waititi funny ha ha jokes!" for most of the first half (and a spattering thereafter) and it just doesn't feel as organic, or land as well, as the previous outing. The cast are all great. Portman's clearly having a lot of fun being Mighty Thor, but Bale's the absolute highlight despite his wonderfully creepy Gorr being massively underused (he barely feels like he's in it at all at times). But it's a fun enough film; just feels a bit fractured and if it'd been a bit more tightly edited and not mugging at the audience so much, it would have been better. (I did love the little Le Voyage dans la Lune homage, though. That was clever.)

TLAT def could have used just 10 more minutes. A 3 minute montage of Gorr killing more Gods (deleted scenes), 1 min of Jane getting powers (BTS show they shot it) 2 more mins exploring the other gods, and 4 minutes fleshing out and reworking the ending (I didn't like the kids part). Phase 4 will be looked at like the Gas Leak Year in Community. The majority of it is good, but its suffered from COVID setbacks and related issues.

It felt like an SNL skit with a huge budget.

For me it’s that a lot of the humor just is not that funny and it is CONSTANT. The tone is very messy. You have two characters in particular with very dark/tragic stories, but then the movie constantly wants to make jokes for 10 year olds at the same time. The balance is very off imo. Gorr is very underused as a villain, despite Christian Bale acting his butt off when he does appear. Etc. The film is just messy overall.

I saw it in 4D (3D+shaky chairs and fog). Distracting and annoying movement didn’t help the viewing. I give it 3 out of 5 stars.

"Explain yourself" had me rolling 🤣

Thor: what a blunder.

I totally agree about the writing and exposition, its my biggest complaint. My go to example is when Jane sees the paper in the Shadow Realm that shows stormbreaker is the key to eternity, then she says dialogue like "bifrost is the key," and then like 10 seconds later she tells Thor that its the key. Same basic information said 3 times. Theres another scene at the city that Valkaryie explains eternity and she might as well be telling the audience directly.

When everything becomes a joke and you are constantly having different characters be the same hero, like with the Power Rangers, people lose interest bc nothing means anything anymore. If anybody can be that hero, then they aren't special in any way. Why do I care if Galactus attacks now? I didn't care when Jane died. I even used to like her.

The Void, Eternity's void is in fact meant to.mirror the Soul Stone space from Infinity War and is connected to the whole soulsworld/afterlife stuff they have been doing since IW.

It just feels like there is a good extra 20-30 minutes of footage they gutted from the movie to flesh stuff out more. We needed to see more Gorr butchering gods, seeing more scenes of Jane pre Mighty Thor, and maybe some more of Thor with the guardians or just something. Each day that has passed since i watched this movie i like it less and less

these are the kind of movies we get when standards sink into the cellar

The stuff with Gor was interesting, because as said in this video he was sort of right. I really wish they would have spent more time on that, explored it a bit more. Maybe had the other characters deal with the idea as well.

"Turn your brain off and you can enjoy it" Fffffffffuuuck no!! No! That just means this movie is mediocre entertainment. It's just fine. Well not worth the price of admission. More worth the price of watching it on your couch. I'll probably watch this eventually but it sounds ehhh

It's fun but I forgot most of the movie on my way home. You need some more genuinely heart-felt moments to make it memorable. Lots of punchlines with little setup.