Why Isn't Kickstarter A Good Deal Anymore? 

Great Insights Alex! One thing to keep in mind is the Direct to Consumer model (which bypasses the Wholesale/Retail model) carries much larger marketing costs. Whether it's KS or post-campaign e-commerce, this cost of acquisition can range from 10% - 30%. Keep up the great work!

Very tiny publisher here - thought I would chime in on this fantastic conversation. For us, we use nearly 100% of any "profit" earned on Kickstarter to print game copies above the Kickstarter fulfillment level. Our actual profit (the stuff we take home to keep food on the table, etc) primarily comes from selling those extra games. So, at least from where we are coming from, we are giving as good a deal to backers as we possibly can afford. We don't look at Kickstarter as a profit center so much as an opportunity to print new games. Now, to your point, much larger publishers who are on Kickstarter probably don't need to work that way. They (hopefully) have enough money in the bank to do a print run, regardless of how much money they earn during their campaign. That said, I'm happy they don't slash prices 30-40% on their campaigns, as that would make our campaigns pail by comparison in value. So, like you said, it's a fine line. We obviously want to reward our backers for helping us make the game in the first place. But we can't go so far that the numbers just don't work out. Anyhow - great video. Really enjoy the channel. Keep it up!

My impression is that the reason that Kickstarter games aren't a good deal anymore is that too many people blindly back too many KS projects that don't offer a good deal. Thanks that you try to do something about it by making your videos.

This is really hitting on a problem I'm having with Kickstarter. Take away games from tiny publishers, or individuals, who are just trying to get a game made. Those are not going to have the greatest value, but you are usually backing because you find the game interesting, want to see it made, and it won't be available at retail most likely. Those are more of what Kickstarter was originally meant for. But then I see a game from a well established publisher, say AEG, and their Kickstarter for a much hyped, and what does look to be a great game, Dead Reckoning. The cost of that game doesn't seem to be a great value. The islands aren't dual-layer, even though they could really use it. Metal coins cost extra, and are not cheap. There is nothing deluxe, or special, about the Kickstarter. They claim it won't be coming to retail, yet they slap MSRP on everything to make it seem like you are getting a good deal. Other than the fact it looks like a great game, and they are tossing in an "expansion", also known as cut content to allow them to charge more (see video game industry practices), the game is not great value. Compare that to what you get from a smaller publisher, games such as The Age of Atlantis or The Dwellings of Everdale, and you can see how drastically different they are. You can see the value in those, the deluxe versions you will be getting. You know those deluxe versions won't be coming to retail, it just wouldn't be financially viable at the price you paid when you factor in the extra channels. This makes me feel like the bigger publisher is doing the Kickstarter just to pocket more money for themselves (which is fine), whereas those other smaller publishers are giving us something special, more than we'd get at retail for the same price.

Terrific video. Very insightful. I hereby vow to watch every one of your "to back or not to back" videos from now on.

I came across your channel a couple of weeks ago and I am just impressed at the quality of your videos, they way you critique games and Kickstarters are really fair. Thank you!

Great video as always! Alex, I think you are the most in-depth reviewer on RU-vid and always have a great rationale! Respect!

Great video man! I'm glad you made this to bring more awareness to this topic of value. One thing I am surprised you didn't mention, besides of course judging the value of a game if you should give a publisher money now or not on KS and if it's a good deal when you factor in shipping and how much the game will be at retail, you have to also factor in the time your money is being tied up as an investment. Especially now with covid going on and everything being pushed back, shipping being higher now, and the cost of games going up with "all in pledges" with things like sundrop and extras and what not, adds up into hundreds of dollars per KS very quickly. The more kickstarters you back, a person could have thousands of dollars tied up waiting for deliveries. So I do feel that it's crucial that the publisher has to provide a very good value for your money when you look at it like you're giving them a 0% interest loan in hopes you'll get your game in a timely manner and that it was worth your time waiting for sometimes years. Also one thing I have been wondering about is the 1$ back option to get into a pledge manager. This is becoming more and more common and this gives even more money into the publishers pockets since it also removes the 10% or whatever KS takes from the project right? Is this having any effect on KS relations with creators? As a backer, I use this often especially when I'm not sure on a project, and ultimately lesses the time my money is tied up to spend on other things. Also it gives time for the backer to see things like how production and testing of the game is going which sometimes reveal red flags as to not give any more money than the 1$ placeholder. Anyway if you actually read this long comment you're a legend, sorry if it kinda rambled on. Keep up the great content!

I seriously don't know how you do what you do. You have a job. A wife. Several kids (think 4, +/- 1), and you not only make the videos that I love to watch, but you find time to play games too! Not only do you make the videos, but I feel that they are quality videos. You are animated, informative, you make your videos convenient with the time stamps, and you make a LOT of videos . Keep up the great work, man. I love what you do

Sorry this video was a bit late! I made the mistake of making an edit within RU-vid....and it got locked up for an hour while processing. Lesson learned.

Impressed at the increased quality of your videos and audio in the last 5 months. Well done! Wonderful video btw!

BoardGameCo is my new favorite youtube board game channel. I don't know why. Maybe just his cool, easy to listen to voice, his emphatically- but kindly- stated opinions, his knowledge. Just entertaining and informative, and watching removes the stress in my day. Thanks!

I spend WAY MORE on Kickstarter than on a game I order from retail, even including my pimping up costs (which are substantial) the "all in" pledge is a killer! My biggest problem is I forget about games I pledged, then this GIGANTIC box arrives and I have to figure out where its going to go...

Thanks for the (again) great video! Your insight in the economics side of kickstarter games is really interesting and has learned me a lot and brought me new perspectives. Your videos also help me get my spending and fomo in check, so thanks! :D

"Why are so many companies on Kickstarter barely giving you a reason to back?" ... +1

The theory of protecting MSRP is a thing in general retail but it also works in reverse. Santorini was on kickstarter for full price and later was selling for 12 dollars at major retailers. That soured the whole kick starter experience and haven't bought one since. Kickstarter has an early adopters tax once a game goes to retail.

This was a really insightful and indepth look at this issue on both sides. I never thought about the additional margins that would need to be covered by smaller publishers for their start up costs such as art. Seems like something not well considered in some of these arguments... Thanks for the great video!

Great topic! Kickstarters are always such a hot topic of debate for various reasons, but it's definitely a tough market with so much risk.

Another great, insightful vid. Thanks.

I just knew about KS this year, before i knew about your channel, i backed every KS game that i like without considering the difference between retail and KS price, i just went All in for everything due to FOMO, not only adding the expansions but i did the add on such as the sleeves, play mat, art book, dice tower and whatever not. What you said in your videos make sense, and i learn a lot of from you, so thanks for that.

Thank you for all those videos. I'm getting excited about kickstarter games pretty easy :D but thanks to your videos I'm trying to take a big breath and reconsider my backs ;) already save few bucks. From next month I'm going to invest in your patreon and toss some coins for my witcher ;)

New to board games, however I have launched a couple of Kickstarter projects (to publish books). A couple of things to keep in mind: small companies and individuals aren't going to print in as big a volume as big companies, which means that the cost for each item is more expensive. Secondly, shipping is surprisingly expensive, especially if you're doing international shipping. Also, if you raise about $10,000, you're going to have to pay taxes on that. Now, maybe big companies are overcharging for their games (in which case, don't back it), but I find that it's impossible to make a profit on Kickstarter. I use Kickstarter so I don't have to ask for a bank loan for my projects.

Very guilty of FoMO is why I appreciate your work as it put's some of my impulse purchases in check! One thing I was surprised you didn't really cover for benefit for the creator was we are helping to cover their production costs as well with essentially a zero interest loan and also a what are we going to do if they don't pay (deliver) on time vs a bank loan?

Great solid advice. We are entering the phase of needing to cull our collection. It’s so difficult, but the truth is we will literally *never* get majority of our collection to the table. $ Alison

Very good content, thank you.

Very accurate evaluation. We're going to keep seeing less value if we keep throwing money at games because of our fomo. "Would I pay this price in the game store?" Is the first thing I always ask myself before I back a KS thanks to you.

I always appreciate when a KS subsidizes shipping. This protects MSRP, but is a measurable benefit for the consumer. The extras are definitely greatly appreciated, but not at the expense of proper game play.

Thank you Alex. Great insight.

Very interesting. Do you have any stats about failure rates for board games on kickstarter ? i.e. games that never get produced and delivered ? Backing is not buying, so there is a real risk for us backers as well. But I haven't seen any stats around that. Would be interesting to know whether that is 10%, 5% or 2% ?

When a project splits their original design into 50 different parts, then offer them back as "stretch goals" and "unlocked freebies" ... WOW! What a great deal! When a project presents itself with 100% integrity while offering almost zero stretch goals, oooohh boy... time to eject before you're caught in the blazing s***tstorm.

This is another video which generates thought. I agree with what you are saying and I too have slowed my KS purchases as I no longer see the value - CMON is the exception.

good video, enjoyed it. I want to add that retailers will become more and more important as the "retail pledge" option (aka buying in bulk) will present the best deal possible. I think the next adjustment is consumers 'pledging' through their local retailer to have access to the retailer discount

Very good overview! Good insights :-)

Part of the reason Kickstarters aren't good deals has to do with the type of games being started. It's becoming usual that the game is little more than an excuse to sell extravagantly modeled miniatures. Even if it's a reasonable price for the content, the game doesn't look any better served for having them. A lot of times I see a Kickstarter and wonder if I need the minis rather than if the game is one I might want to play. Generally, the answer is no and I end up spending my game budget on cheaper, released, titles with less flash.

Kickstarter prices are slowly creeping up, that CMON Game that was $90 is now $120 not to mention all the crazy add-ons.

Interesting video! Thanks!

Alex thanks for this video. Unfortunately publishers on Kickstarter keep that extra profit and don’t give it back to players as extras

My two cents is that I back games on Kickstarter primarily for guaranteed access rather than gambling that I will ever be available to get the game at retail before it sells out and second-hand copies start going for a 50% premium over even the KS price.

Wow, Is this one-take video? that's amazing

I still hope there will be some very good catches in the future, even tho yes, You are right in the title and in the video: KS was about more than pre-order games coming out 1 year later... The journey itself for any decent KS project is very exciting, but more frequently this not coming hand-in-hand with "yes we creating this project together". The success of certain projects are already defined and day by day You are hyped for the new extras only (Terraforming Mars Turmoil or Big Box, and yes I was one of those people backed both anyways). It's still a better experience than going to the local game store and take a box off the shelf.

I've only backed one game; the infamous Exploding Kittens. I've found it to be a great game between games, kids love it, and they ran their campaign in a way I was just buzzing in glee. A humorous aside, they promised a mystery bonus as a thank you for it being so ridiculously successful. I knew some other backers and we were abuzz. The game came on the same day. So when we opened it and the game box meowed at us we had to ask each other if we were hearing things. My niece, who was excited over it, just started giggling. I closed the box and opened it again just for more meows and giggling.

Great points. The one thing that really gets me mad is when a big company puts the actual core game content in their stretch goals. Like unlocking 2 or 3 out of 4 playable characters when the whole game has no reason to be released without them... And of course later at retail they are already inside. So the whole SG journey, as they call it, seems pointless at best. At this point they could've just produced their game and sell it the traditional way.

Very nice video. Much like other comments here, I’m glad to see more and more people talk about the business side of hobby gaming. I agree with sooooo many games competing for our time/attention and bottom line our money. (Pardon the bottom line pun 😉) I will say I do enjoy the stretch goal game tho. Must be my inner Vegas. Subscribed to you immediately after finishing this video. It’s a great topic for discussion.

Good point with CMON. Buying any of their games on retail is throwing your money to the bin. You either jump on their KS or forget that game exists.

I would add that as the popularity of kickstarter games continues to skyrocket, so does the competition for our attention. Marketing costs go up from ads on facebook, instagram to preferential searches on kickstarter itself and Google SEO, those costs are passed onto the consumer.

Great topic. Exception to small company providing value might be Blacklist Games. Their recent miniature campaign was an amazing deal and the SG were really amazing. Of course selling mini’s is different than actual game so will have to see how their next campaign measures up.

The 'holy trifecta' of KS games: sooner delivery, cheaper game, more stuff fell apart a few years ago. Now a) publishers push their game to retail/cons so, combined with the postal delays, you get your KS game often later than others, b) games are just as expensive as retail because shipping skyrocketed, publishers pad costs with production, c) public backlash towards KSE and game-bloat with pre-planned game component design (for tighter development & production timelines) has caused creators to scale back on SGs. So, yeah, except (any) CMON games and KS-exclusive games, it's now better to just let your FLGS now you want a KS game and hope they back it.

The best thing about FOMO is that I can buy second hand KS games by a fraction of the price less than a year after release, please people keep wasting your money on KS bonanza, those like me appreciate your lack of financial selfcare.

I forget to mention, superb video (I'm gonna run out of superlatives with you).

Grim hollow,kingdoms and warfare, and stubbles codes of companions are a bunch of chads in the kickstarter market.

Great topic, It's very rare a good deal lately. IMO the only good deals i feel i've gotten are group pledges. The KS projects that view their backers as customers tend not to be a good deal, and projects that view backers as partners/retailers tend to be better deal. Give me an option for group pledge for 50% off MSRP. Those have been decent backed games for me.

I pre-ordered kickstarter editions with full contents of the new Aliens board game and Altar quest incl. the Fantasy box, and I really think the price is fair enough considering the ammount of stuff that are included.

It's definitely a tricky situation. i first noticed it a few years back as KS had more big name and/or established companies as opposed to the smaller and newer designers. i complained that they were essentially using KS as a preorder tool, where in theory, the bigger companies have the resources to bring a game to production without crowd funding. So this is where i often disagree with your evaluations on "should you back this" because you will frequently warn against newcomer designers because of the risk. While i acknowledge that the purpose of a platform can change, i disagree that KS should be used for larger companies to help trim down their bottom line by getting the consumer to pay up front (or more w/ S&H). i understand that they're taking advantage of the economic tool here, but it doesn't seem to sit right that they're pushing out new innovators. And to counter my own argument a little, some companies (such as CMON) have used this to offset their own risk by testing the waters on how well a new game concept/setting/etc will be received.

"And as long as we are buying games at FOMO prices that we would never pay in store, we incentivize the continuation of this practice." That's key. Thanks for this guideline. I'll try to stick to it.

Companies are keep releasing and releasing games, they dont playtest them enough and we end up most of the time with an average game and SGs that arent playtested and break the game. The best SGs for me are the upgraded components. The new trend is daily SGs, with less KS exclusives and even less profit for us.

Congrats on 7000.

Really enjoyed this video and I would have to think is the buyers has to be the main reason. I know my yearly 2 buys 1 is what I consider a reasonable price and the other I am paying more than I should. My biggest pledges have both been AEG, currently Day of Reckoning and previously Thunderstone. I know it is FOMO. I'm torn on adding the metal coins $30 is a lot of money when you have already pledged at the high level, or not I suppose. Thanks for your informative view. I do have a question about Patreon, if I back at the lowest level will I start getting pleas to up my pledge?

I've gotten some great deals in the past - Root and Stockpile, for example - but there are definitely fewer these days, especially with UK shipping and customs taken into account. In the last year or so I think I've pretty much only backed RPG PDFs, very small games or expansions, and a couple of projects that explicitly aren't going to get general retail releases.

I believe when you factor in shipping, especially outside of the US, no Kickstarter game is what I would call a good deal. That said, it's about getting product that you might not be able to get in retail, whether stretch goals or the entire game. And that's how we rationalize value for money spent.

What would you say to a kickstarter that has stretch goals that lower the price. So passing on some of the bulk savings to the backers once the initial fixed costs are covered.?

Video game kickstarters can be worse: Even if we ignore the one-man projects that take years and years (if they ever deliver), the lower prices offered to the backers pale next to a nearly inevitable 90% Steam sale price. Though you do perhaps get to follow along in the development - the Battletech project had quite a few demo play videos from the devs during the development process, for instance.

Another very relevant point is the certainty of demand, kickstarter should be cheaper just for the fact that its a guaranteed sale, instead of the uncertainty of a tradicional sale

Some great insight into the board game industry on KS right now! As a first-time publisher, I am actively trying to avoid this. Our first game will be going up at a discounted price with free shipping and will hopefully be upgraded by stretch goals to make the deal even better.

The last game I backed was Isle of Cats, and of course I had to get the expansion as well. I enjoyed the hype and the 'ride', but it had a big price tag and it was annoyingly available for *so much* less later (like half the KS price!) from online stores. I do love the game but lesson learned, I've definitely cooled off KS.

Thanks for the video! I back some KS games not because they are a great deal but because two other reasons: 1. They are not available at retail in my country (Poland). So I can either get them on KS or I will have to buy them somewhere online later and pay a lot for shipping. 2. Lower shipping cost (mentioned above). Some games after KS are not available at international hubs. You have to order them from publisher. And the cost of shipping from US to Europe, when you include tax and customs is ridiculous. And sometimes you can talk with friends and make a KS group pledge so the shipping cost is divided between for example 10 people. If I buy the game individually afterwards, I would have to pay higher shipping. But as you said, sometimes I back KS games because of fomo ;) A lot of people talk about abcertain title and the hype gets to me. But luckily having a small child helps to resist that ;) I know I don’t have that much time for games so even though some KS titles look interesting I know I wouldn’t really have time to play them. So It’s a waste of money to buy a game that I wouldn’t even play that much.

My big problem is I live in Israel and shipping prices have gone nuts. Awaken Realms has a very nice deal where they ship it inexpensively but very slowly. I'll gladly wait another 2 months and save $80 on shipping. Chip Theory had an amazing deal of $50 for shipping anything worldwide. I may have gone a little overboard....

Interesting. Things is some, hell all of these massive games with tons of content aren't seen in stores normally. I could only imagine how much more the store would charge? I have a FLGS that does a good job of getting some KS's in the store and they jack that price up.

I agree with this video and it makes me feel bad about myself. THANKS! I know a lot of the games on my list are, "I don't want to miss out on this." Thinking it's cheaper than it would be at retail. I would say a few are, "Yeah this game looks cool...I'll help this person out." I just bought a folding Japanese toy because I thought the guy running the campaign was super sweet and the toys were cute. Do I want one? Sure-ish. But really I wanted to help him out.

I always heard of prices set by the doubling principle. Cost of $10 to make. Distributor sells for double, $20. Retailer sells for double $40. The retailer takes the biggest risk and can discount the item.

I think your point #4 is the biggest factor. Basic economics: supply & demand. People (especially Americans) have more disposable income. Sellers are clearly going to note and take advantage of this. It's much like housing - sellers look at comps and make their best guess what they can sell theirs for.

I think late pledges, even through a pledge manager, add a ton of profitability for some KS campaigns. All of a sudden they are only losing a tiny piece for each late pledge

Man, the stretch goals thing. One particular example that comes to mind for me is the Shadow Tactics boardgame KS which I pledged on. They ended up adding a Solo-mode stretch goal due to backers whining in the comments and as the solo mode was not actually something they'd planned it's set back the whole development of the game by months :-/ Lately I've been backing more smaller projects from first-time creators because I'm more interested in seeing if a new creator can produce something great than I am in lining CMONs coffers :-)

Agree 100% on these. And I love that you point out "us" as a reason. Other channels have scalded companies for "exploitative" or "shady" KS practices, but I've always said it's the consumer that enables the companies to do it. They know the consumer will back regardless, so it's the companies' prerogative to take advantage of business as much as possible. Sure, they can also be more consumer-friendly, but until we start speaking up w/ our wallets about it, they have no reason to. Also, re: point #2, it reminds me of a good comment I read on a KS once: "It's never a good time to launch a KS." KS is just so saturated now, and expensive, that competition for our dollar is higher than ever. I think is is also why some games are actually offering less content for price, b/c KS is sort of the pseudo-standard now for publishers, that they feel there's no reason to have tons of FOMO or incentives on KS. I mean...of all the major publishers and indie publishers, really just the Asmodee umbrella and a couple smaller labels have avoided KS. edit: Also, even if a KS itself IS a good deal, the S&H usually makes up for it and turns it back into a basic, or even bad, deal. Like "hey, this game is $20 less than retail! ...but also costs $25 for S&H...$40 after I ad the add-ons." I avoided KS for years, only really delving deep into it last year and went on a backing binge for a handful of months. Til I finally realized how much S&H makes these games, not really that great of a deal...

I also think companies have gotten better at gauging/squeezing SGs. Before many companies went crazy because they though their campaign needed that push or they miscalculated (my beloved first KS: Shadows of Brimstone). But as tame has gone by publishers have learned to space-out, calculate or even divide stretch goals so they (publishers) don't "lose"money (after the first Shadows of Brimstone the Forbidden Fortress KS seemed more sparce but, to my mind, better planned).

I got into board gaming a little over a year ago, and when I get into something I get into it heavily, I only discovered Kickstarter about 3 months after and for me it was just great window shopping and purchasing things I liked, I didn't really think of the money because in my head I was like well its money I won't spend later, but then more and more exciting things came up and I feel in the trap of liking everything, now I've received a couple of games and some a really good and some are just ok, and now I'm backing off see what things I've purchased that really are good then I can make better choices in the future. Kickstarter its easy to fall into the hype train, with all the videos. pictures, daily unlock's, and I completely agree with the statement with what I'm trying to do now, would I purchase this game if I was at my FLGS, and looking back I would have definitely not purchased some of my Kickstarter, so fingers crossed to those working out and more knowledge moving forward

Ive found 2 shifts have happened on kickstarter lately. 1 is that companies are offering daily unlocks instead of stretch goals. My answer to that is that i now only back for $1. My credit card doesnt get hit straight away and the company will owe less money to kickstarter as a percentage. The 2nd thing I've noticed is games not offering anything at all other than maybe a cheaper product now. Living in Australia means that the exchange rate and shipping kills any chance of it actually being cheaper on kickstarter. I will 100% buy Frosthaven one day and i think Isaac Childres is a legend. But there was no reason to back the kickstarter at all. That money i would have spent will stay in my account for a year and a half and I will buy it on special from a store one day.

A lot of company use ks just to sell easier game and most important the shipping cost is becoming insane

What’s your opinion about GameCrafter?

Really interesting video! I think we should also not forget about the recent closing of the taxation loophole for US companies delivering to the EU. Having to pay 19% extra on top of the already inflated prices along with the extreme shipping costs (and even additional tax for the shipping costs) the US kickstarter campaigns got so ridiculously expensive for EU backers that I think only people with real addiction issues and FOMO will keep backing from here. Especially, if the most companies do not provide a valid reason to back their games on kickstarter as you mentioned in the video. After having a campaign where the VAT was added as somewhat of a surprise in the PM I have backed exclusively EU campaigns and I will stay away from any US-based campaign. I am pretty sure I am not the only one - just looking at the comments/uproad in the latest Tine Epic kickstarter I saw a lot of confused disappointed backers. I am interested to see how this will change the marketing, targeting and overall support KS campaigns will get from EU. In the end it may put all our FLGS and local publishers in a better position, which may not be a bad thing afterall. It is just a shame for small publishers whose success could depend on this missing EU-support.

I have no shelf space for MD2.0 but I am definitely hyped / intrigued based solely on the amount of fun I've had with C:DMD and Zombicide. Time to move I guess!

Great points. I'm interested in massive darkness 2 but never played it before. Not sure I would pay £100 for the game in a shop so why am I considering it here?? Also I'm not into the extras so even less sense for me lol

Kickstarter is just being used by publishers to advertise their games. You can tell by the production values that the big games are coming out regardless of what funding goal they set. What they really want is 20-30k people looking and talking about their game and this advertising is fantastically cheap for them, where they get most of their advertising revenue back as pledges.

That 50% to the distributor is actually 60%, 65% if through a consolidator (which is the only distribution option, if any, for most small publishers). Retailers with connections get it from the distributor for 50%. Those without get even worse deals from the distributors. But anyway, that's a big difference for the publisher, 5-10% profit vs the 20% you're describing. A difference of $5-10k profit on even a small print run for a small game.

What do you think about hate from cmon?

I've actually had the opposite experience in recent times with regards to kickstarter value. I've come across several games that were kickstarted and I look at the price they went for (some had KS exclusives and some didn't) and they end up being somewhere between more expensive to considerably more expensive in the after market (eBay etc.) or directly from the publisher. It might be partly due to availability, but its really making me wish I had noticed those kickstarters at that time so I could have gotten a much better deal.

I've only backed one kickstarter. I was afraid I was going to become addicted to it, but honestly I'm not even hooked. The kickstarter I backed is doing horrendous, it's been delayed beyond comprehension. Then, most kickstarters are just a pile of boxes with so many gray boring minis. Three things I'm interested in: good gameplay, amazing art, relative small box.

One main reason for me myself to back games ln KS is, that I am not sure, if they would ever come into retail in my country. I live in Germany and of couse there are also great KS campaign throughout whole Europe, but many games don't present a german version (which I understand). Therefore, if i really like the game, I back it on KS in order to even be able to play it ^^. That's why I am willing to pay more in comparison to retail :)

Lowering your price also helps get the game to twice the homes , later on all these buyers will become embassadors, many games sold are a result of trying it at a friends house.

I agree w/ what you are saying Alex. KS was originally designed to help get a product published that wouldn't otherwise. Unfortunately, it's become a way for established companies to test the market on projects they'd like to launch so that they don't have to publish the game if they don't like the results (one reason a campaign will be cancelled). The creators of KS don't care about backers, and they allow these practices to continue because they get 10% regardless. They'll also allow campaigns to be launched by people who haven't fulfilled previous campaigns, but that's another show. *chuckles*

I have to say the information you presented here gives a lot for thought. I know I have backed some kickstarters because my FLGS cannot get it. Some I have backed partially because I will get the non kickstarter exclusive content at my FLGS. Frosthaven is an example of this. There is some content on the kickstarter that cannot be acquired any other way. I did ask my FLGS what from the kickstarter they can get and I will be picking that up through them.

No mention of taxes? I think this area has gained a lot of "clarity" in recent years and now you regularly see campaigns marked with x-area is "shipping friendly" (in reality the publisher pays the tax for you).

counterpoint: Shipping. I have once done a direct purchase from a European publisher and the shipping is outrageous. Although us Canadians regularly pay allot for shipping, it is worse outside of KS. True that compared to online retail the shipping is expensive but you one orders direct and doesn't get benefit of a bulk shipment to local repackaging that is common with KS then it gets absolutely ridiculous.

A few things. I think part of the overall slowdown is mostly crowdfunding exhaustion among backers who supported many games over the last 6-7 years and are starting to get a little more selective, especially when their previous campaigns are starting to clutter their residence. Then there are the publishers that realized that the tabletop backer crowd could only support so many campaigns at a given time, especially for the larger games. I've seen more than a few comments from people apologizing about only backing $1 now, because there are too many simultaneous campaigns going on and they can't afford them all at once. I think some are getting better about finding out about upcoming big campaigns and trying to avoid running theirs around that time (if possible). As for those margins, one of the big expenses for board games is the start up cost, not the actual production of the game. The Massive Darkness 2 campaign had an initial funding goal of $300K and I'd bet that the cost of the steel molds needed to make all those mini's for just the base game was probably somewhere close to half of that. Those things aren't cheap. Back when Reaper Miniatures did their first Bones campaign, the cost for a small mold to make a single 28mm scale miniature was $1000 per mold. Their initial funding was primarily to pay to have the molds made and they figured there would be enough left to crank out mini's to send to backers. The campaign, thankfully, blew up and they shot past their initial goal fast so they started adding stretch goals. But they take costs into consideration and the gap between goals gets further and further apart the farther they go because they know that next stretch goal has to not only pay for the new molds, but also an ever increasing number of mini's that will be shipped to backers. But they are very much upfront about the fact that the campaign is about getting molds made so they can make mini's for sale at retail locations. The mini's made during the KS are just the backers ROI. I also think that your point about protecting MSRP and latecomers missing out on exclusives is a lesson many, but not all, companies are realizing is very important. If I was a retailer, why would I stock a game when half the stuff will never be available for me to sell because it was "Exclusive". Special order sure, but not something that may just sit on the shelf and never move because of all the extra's I can't offer. Funny enough, I did one campaign a few years ago and recently the creators polled the backers to see if we'd be cool if the "Exclusive" stuff could now be available for anyone to purchase and pretty much everyone was cool with it. And I could see that if a campaign wasn't going to have a lot of free stretch goals maybe a small discount is alright, but not so much that you make the MSRP seem inflated. Enough to make people think it's a good deal to get now, but not enough to make the full price a hard sell later on. But I like backing small campaigns even with minimal or no free stretch goals, even without a discount, if I believe it's a product I'll enjoy or put to good use. I've backed plenty of card games, tiny board games, and plenty of metal/resin miniatures. Especially mini's for things you don't see a lot of (like female dwarves or any fantasy female that's not a human or elf). And finally to everyone, don't forget that when you see that cool big campaign early on, instead of jumping in and backing sometimes it's best to hit the "Remind me" button and check back closer to the end. You can get a better picture of what you'll get if you back and the time may have cooled off the initial excitement and get you to rethink whether you really need it or not. Believe me, I've walked away from more than a few cool games and stuff by not diving in right away and I don't regret it at all.

The deals with KS come with exclusives and deluxe editions that aren’t released at retail. They’re still ridiculously expensive compared to retail editions of games later released for a much cheaper price, but I find the deluxe editions retain their value well (and often I can resell for a higher price even after I play the game 10+ times). I sold my used Dinosaur Island + Totally Liquid deluxe editions for $40 more than I paid for, my used deluxe does Gentes for $10 more than I paid for, and my used 7th Continent for $20 more than I paid for. I would never, ever back a KS that’s a retail edition that will later be released, even for games I love like Paladins of the West Kingdom. KS shipping alone ruins any “deals” offered via ks for retail editions.

Started on this boardgames life very late, and only now started building my collections. Couple months ago heard about games on KS and to be honest, I cannot see the appeal to it. The prices seemed always so damn high. And when I found out that the shipping cost were not included ( and after seeing some of those costs) I was like, this is completely nuts. I get the “ let’s support the small publishers and so on” but from the economic perspective, it looks that the money is not well spent when I can just buy it a couple months later whithout paying shipping. The most relevant fact is indeed FOMO. The willingness of people to buy into this is what makes the price of the games higher and higher without any other important reason. I do not agree with everything, but mostly I see the FOMO and hype from Beaty add ons and sparky shinny stretch goals.. Great video btw

No one delves into the ECON of the hobby like you do. It’s your niche.

At the end of the day many of us straddle the line of being both the creator and victim of this predicament often due to the attitude of "do as I say..not as I do" (myself included). But more importantly Alex I gotta ask, did you happen to back or not back Wasteland Knights 2nd edition (just curious since there is still an opportunity to get in on it.

My excuse is usually related to language/location (getting copies in English while in Germany). But I did get some games on online stores recently and altho I haven't received anything yet, at least the price was good. Funny part, the lack of information over delivery is almost the same, I got like 5 titles and know very little about when they will deliver xD

The best deal i have seen on kickstarter is the Tainted Grail sundrop pledge, three campaign boxes for around $120 shipped.

7:30 Since you like CMON so much, a huge factor is the cost of the minis (vs. smaller scale stuff). One thing you should look at (and recommend to viewers) is Toby O'Hara's series on miniature manufacturing: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3Qq2T929rw0.html (there are three parts so far). Eye opening! It isn't just their margins in many cases, but the scale you need for that "rule of 4" to become a "rule of 5."