I'm French and I never knew there was such a dispute, we always talk about the "French Mont Blanc" and the "Italian Mont Blanc" to talk about the different parts of the mountain
the video is wildly inaccurate on many points. pretty sure the dispute is over the summit, the french claim is not that the entire mountain is theirs. also "Savoy-Sardinia" was never a thing, it was Sardinia-Piedmont, the Kingdom of Naples hadnt been a thing for decades at the time of Garibaldi's expedition of the thousand and the french had nothing to do with Veneto, italians annexed it after the austro-prussian war.
I even, in Italy, neve heard about it. If exist a dispute like that should be something extremly uninportant and this is why i stopped the video after 1 min. It's pointless even because we are talking about interna EU borders
"Both sides completely unwilling to compromise" But like, Italy's position seems to be "We share the mountain", which is at least some measure of compromise compared with France's "C'est a mine!!"
@@godogs89 and all the territory was returned?? Well except for mainland france but that is frances land. And french Guyana was not returned because no one there wanted independence so it remained french. And if france has to have a global trade embargo then so should the uk, AND ALL THE **OTHER** FORMER COLONIAL EMPIRES because they did the same things, why doesn't belgium go through this with what they did in the congo??? Because the modern president doesn't (or as far as we know) want to do bad stuff in the congo, same with the Uk and the irish potato famine, the monarchy during the famine may have wanted to continue exporting food from ireland despite the hunger and sickness, but that doesn't mean the current monarchy wants to cause a famine. Just like France and any other country with a bad past. So go cry to the UN
This video lacks a fundamental evidence that resolves the case in Italian favor. During the treaty of Turin (1860) the Italian government gave the administrative region of Savoy to France and the border between the Valle d’Aosta and Savoy was in the middle of Monte Bianco. Then after WW2 the french treaty of Turin was lost and then the French government started claiming jurisdiction on the top of Monte Bianco due to an earlier treaty made by Napoleon in 1797. This of course was a ridiculous claim made by the French government to obtain popularity, and today the top of Monte Bianco has Italian infrastructures on it. Please if you read this, Politics with Paint, make it the pin comment. By the way just saying, even the map of NATO has the mountain top divided in half between Italy and France.
If I remember correctly only the french documents of the treaty got lost after WW2 while the Italian ones still exists, but the french simply don't care and pretend that the treaty doesn't exist anymore just because they lost the documents. It's like if someone refused to pay the bills because they've lost them, it makes absolutely no sense.
i didn't know this was even a thing, always knew it was half french, half italian. Borders in Europe are designed following natural barriers so it makes perfectly sense to be like that
How border are design to ? Look at nothern part of France lool. Belgium literally is inside natural french border. A part of Netherland too. Luxembourg too. Little part of Germany too World isn't simple as that. Mont Blanc fully was in savoie territory. Savoie was given to France
@@gringologie9302 in fact belgium Is half ethnically french. You are talking about a geographical area with no natural barriers wich has been a contended territory and at war for centuries lol, this area was choose to place the european parliament for this reason, to mantain peace especially between Germany and France
But it's simple... why don't we share it ? I'm French and not gonna lie, the Italians had a good idea when they said it was split in two. Mont Blanc and Monte Bianco 🇫🇷🇮🇹👍
it's based on the definition of the border, choosing montains isnt as simple as you think, they can be multiple factors that you can choose from (peaks, rivers, etc), and then there the variables.
Italians share things when it suits them ...in this case the "let's share it" is not generous as it takes from the current French territory . The mont Blanc has been French for a long time. Before that it belonged to savoy. thus it Was never technically Italian. The Italian part of the mount blanc belongs to the Val d'Aoste and un itself it is a French speaking region within Italy. Which was reattached to Italy in a very debatable manner. So the debate could be to ask Italy to give up this French region. Let's be generous. Let's ask Italy to give half of the Val d'Aoste .. And then there will be no argument about the mont blanc. And yes, the occupation of France on 1940 is a very good argument too to cool off these idiotic Italian claims.
@@sylvaincroissant7650Valle d'Aosta is not a French speaking region, it's a Francoprovençal speaking region. Also French speaking does not imply France gets to claim it. Belgium and Switzerland exist.
@@diocanaja no. It is a French speaking region. And to this day French is an official language of this semi autonomous region. there have been recents efforts to Italianize the region though. Fair game. Francoprovençal is spoken there, but is not an official language. French is. Now if you look at the comments you will see that people also claim that Corsica is Italian and not French because the Corsican dialect resembles Italian so you can't have it both ways... The links of the Val d'Aoste to France is quite old actually and is not just a language thing. But nevertheless, the claim of the Mont Blanc itself by France is because it was always part of Chamonix, on all our maps. There are mountains everywhere over there anyway. This Italian claim is quite silly. You keep your mountains and we keep ours. There was also a thing about the French losing their version of the treaty of Turin and that somehow is a French fault. It turns out it was stolen/destroyed by the Germans during the occupation of France. And we still have a photography of the document anyway.
the fact that the NATO maps use the italian version of the map tells us who the international community belive is right, (if you guys lost your version of the treaty of Turin it's YOUR FAULT).
Everyone in France think the Mount blanc is half French half Italian. And I think the « Italian » map is used in French school. That’s our government problem not French problem.
@@Alleniro Honestly calling French people ''froggies'' is kinda cringe, i live in France and NEVER have i seen a single soul eat frogs, snails or anything related to theses in restaurants by the way i agree, i support Italians cause this border just looks ugly and the Italians' are better
Italy gained Veneto by joining the Austro-Prussian war not with French support. They gained Milan and central Italy with French support in the second Italian war of independence.
@@levitschetter5288 *Austria. And they ceded Veneto to France knowing full well that it would be immediately transferred to Italy, they just considered a direct territorial transfer to a newly unified Italy too humiliating.
We not "gained" nothing, those lands was ours since the beginning. French and Austrians was the abusives here. Now things are almost fine... even if parts of my Friuli are still under control of foreign countries. I remember you that Friuli was founded Avril 3, 1077. 😤
I actually live in the little city of St Gervais Les Bains, who owns the French « MontBlanc » and all of the story was very well explained. But the italians are right. There is a French Part and a Italian part of the « MontBlanc/Monte Bianco » It was a excellent video Edit: Thank you so much for 92 likes!
@@gringologie9302 "Italy isn't famous to protect environment" nope, we care about our environment as much as France and the rest of Europe. We've a lot of inaccesible islands protected by the law, national forest and a lot protected species (read the story of the reintroduction of the Appennine wolf and the Alpine Bears). Also we are very good on recycling (first in Europe for recycling paper); and to finish, right now we're doing new laws to protect animals and environment. Stop using this stupid prejudice, thanks.
@@nailil5722no France doesn't lmao, one google search would be enough to disabuse you of that notion. and no, a thing is not true because Sputnik Afrique said so 😂
I genuinely believed that Mount Blanc was split in half thanks to a small french tourist book from the 70s. They mentioned is disputed but commonly believed to be split
In this clip there are many incorrect informations. IE France helped the Kingdom of Sardinia to obtain Lombardy (annexed 1859), not Veneto (annexed 1866), and the Congress of Vienna was already happening during Napoleon's 100 days. The treaty of Turin (1860) clearly put the border at the watershed (there's even an attached map), passing through the highest peaks. During IIWW the French "lost" the maps that were attached to their copy of the treaty of Turin, and that farce begun. Mind that the alpine rescue in the "contested" area is always performed by the Italian CNSAS, since it would be ridicolus to reach that territory from Chamonix.
Problem is USA refused french legitimate claims in 1944 on all the Moutain Val d'Aoste, Vallées Occitanes et Arpitaness. USA thought that Italy could became communist doing this while De Gaulle And Tito hated each other. But truth is since 1922 french and occitan speaker here where forced to assimilate thanks to Mussolini politic of uniformisation. Italy backstabbed France in 1940 (and failed without Germans) even if italian occipation were not so harsh compared to german and later american/british. This last point make reconciliation easier between France and Italy even if France was not avenged for the backstab.
@@tot0m French talking of legitimacy and forced assimilation when they democratically eliminated German speakers from Alsace and Lorraine are funny. It would be interesting to see how this forced assimilation happened when, until the end of WWII, the second language taught in Italian schools was French.
@@neutronalchemist3241 I do not really see the point with Alsace-Moselle (not Lorraine) we are talking about France and Italy. We can talk about Italy and Germany too, 1943, 1944 république of Salo, annexion of Trento-Adige... if you really want to talk about forced assimilation OZAK and OZAV zone may interest you. I am alsatian, my ancesters were french even before Germany was created. Alsace-Moselle history is not so simple than in Alps. I didn't say France is more legitimate than Italy to rule in Aoste or everywhere else. I just say Italian irredentism and German irredentism is a bullshit for humanity, only trying to base racial identity first with hair color then with language and then make people hate each other. Mont Blanc had never been call Monte Blanco by his neightboor, it always had been Mont Blanc or Glaciales Montes, Mont Maudit, Mont Mallet... nothing to struggle with Tuscan (modern Italian).
@@tot0m LOL! when few French speakers in a minuscule region of little more than 100.000 inhabitants decrease it's "forced assimilation". When France eliminates millions of German speakers from two big regions "it's not that simple". 😂 Yes, it's that simple. Democratic France had carried out policies of forced assimilation that were worse than the fascist ones, for much more time than the fascists did, and succeeded in eliminating those pesky not-French form it's territory. Their choice. It become quite funny when they pretend to preach others. Especially others that have flourishing German and Ladin speaking communities. The only thing the French should try to teach to the Italians is how to get rid of them. As for Salo, since you are at it, you can also speak about the enlightened racial policies of Vichy France. The name of the mountain has nothing to do with the position of the border.
The French base it's border on the treaty of Chambéry (1790’) but the new treaty of Torino (1860') say that the border Is based on the natural crest of the Mountain
But the treaty of 1860 has some obvious problems, its wording suggests they were not aware of the actual geography. That's why both sides can base their opinion on this treaty.
Italy in the treaty of “Torino” give Savoia and Nizza to France for the help against Austria in the second war of independence. So if the treaty of 1860 doesn't exist Italy would have Savoia and Nizza. The treaty signed by the two side but the french copy vanished misteriously.
If the border is based on natural crest of the mountain,Italy should start by sharing Monte Bianco di Courmayeur before telling to France to share Mont-Blanc. Strangely,i see no italian comment mentionning this "detail"... Biased judgment?
@@dapoun7228 Monte Biaco di Courmayeur is not the natural crest Would France share L'Aiguille du Midi? Oh right, with you French it goes :"What's mine is mine, what's yours is also mine"
@@solinvictus1234 i mean of it comes to "honour" who TF is innocent? Italian honour is litteraly known in history to be worthless with the most popular examples being both world wars, but the Italian wars are such a sh*t show its quite amazing anyone cares. British honor is also renowned to be worthless, unless its against France i guess but thats mutual and a thousand years old rivalry. German honor... its a weird one since Germany as country is very young and before that was... confusing as hell. No but seriously may the country that never betrayed a single one of its agreement throw the 1st stone. Plus im pretty sure ever since Bismarck the matter of Honour in Geopolitic is considered worthless, then again its been a while since i studied realpolitik
@@Freedmoon44 The fact that you're ig or ant on the matter of Italy affairs in WW's, do not allow you to judge Italy as dishonourable in such a generalized way. Did you know that in WWI wasn't Italy to left the Triple Entente but Austro-Hungarians to betray the treaty and nullify it violating the Article 7? And if you want i will explain in details it to you. Did you know why Italy sided with Germany in WWII? Cause the dishonourable Americans, British and French, during the pact of London, do not gived the promised (verbally and on paper) lands to Italy agreed before the WWI and for that lands Italy lost millions of young men, that died for nothing at the end. Mussolini that fought WWI was so pissed off for this betrayal act that it would never side again with the allies. Germany honourable? Ahahah At the end of the day Italy's mistake was maybe to have been far too much honourable than anyone. No one it's innocent, but someone was less innocent that some others. And believe me, regarding the honour of Italians you do not know nothing, just the propagandistic side of the anglosaxon world.
@@solinvictus1234 ig or ant? My god english words shortened to stuff i cant even understand since ig for me means "in game" and ant means just that "ant". I can still claim that Italy was dishonorable because even if they were "betrayed" they still attacked their former ally after accepting a litteral bribe made by the one supposed to be their ennemy consisting of mere promise to give land to Italy. Italian war still justify italian dishonor in general. WW2 still Italians turning on their German ally the moment the allies started winning no matter how little they wanted the war its still not something you would expect or want out of an honorable people, no matter how justified Italy was in joining the Axis in the 1st place. Now if you start ranting about how the Entente betrayed those who fought with them, nezrly no ine liked the peacedeals. Italy didnt like the peace deal because they wanted more, Austria didnt like the peace deal because their empire got cut apart, Germany didnt like it because of the many restrictions and loss of land etc... Bulgaria didnt like it because they lost all of their empire, the Greeks didnt like the peace deals because the Turks didnt let them keep Constantinople and Asia Minor, Hungary HATED the peacedeal because they fought against Austria in the End and they got scammed out of 50% of their historical land, and finnaly France also didnt like the Peacedeals because while they won their territorial objectives and all, they wanted to cut Germany apart mike Austria and got disapointed aswell because UK and USA said "f*** that idea, no way it could backfire in i dunno 20 years or smt" The only real happy ones were Belgium and Luxemburg, cus it survived, Poland and the Baltics cus they got free, The slavs in Tcheqoslovakia and i swear i never know how its written pls help, the Slavs of Yugoslavia which frankly Italy was very unhappy about like hungary and Bulgaria, Romania, USA, and UK, even Japan got a bit disapointed over the result since they couldnt get more money though in their case the dispointment would hurt a bit later with China and the treaty of Washington i think. The Entente were facing the problem of everyone wanted everything but both claims clashed so they compromised and it led to many unhappy countries
@@Freedmoon44 the alliance treaty between Italy, Austria and Germany was purely defensive, since Austria is the one who declared the war against Serbia(without consulting Italy either), Italy had no reason to join the war. In ww2 Italy Mussolini got arrested and Italy surrendered to the allies, then Germany invaded the now neutral Italy and rescued Mussolini splitting Italy in half. Neither of the two wars has Italy betraying its allies, you can cope all you want, these are just the facts.
@@strasbourgeois1 1st you haven't conquered shit, that would imply french troops there and de facto french authority and neither are true. 2nd you have nothing to settle cause you're nobody.
@@strasbourgeois1 "we conquered it" Ehm no. I don't see any french soldier on the mountain. And the buildings on the mountain were constructed by italian people. International law says that Monte Bianco (Mont Blanc) is both italian and french. LMAO, french imperialism is so funny.
@@sator3946 If there were a French soldier on the mountain, that would provoke Italy furthermore. Hypothetically, a French soldier crossing into Italian juridical land would be seen as something like trespassing or invasion. Something we are smart enough to understand. And again, like the video says, it can be written on paper or whatever, but you cannot stop the dispute.
I think it's important to underline that Aosta is a semi-autonomous region. This is highly respected by the Italian government who maintain limited control over the region's governance. The area functionally behaves as laid out by the Italian government though as far as the perception on the ground. The border crossings at the tunnel, service providers and signs displaying official authority contacts make is seem that way. The summit and main tourist attractions are largely operated by the Italian side in Courmayeur, Aosta
Italy and France should just hold a race to the top every few years. Whatever team plants the flag first gets ownership of the mountain until the next race.
@@Somegoodpersonyeah anyways, the summit of monte bianco, as shown on google maps and on NATO maps, is divided in two. So, next time somebody tells you "mount blanc is 100% french", just spit in their eyes and tell them the truth
Italian government: Monte Bianco is split between you and us Italian people: eh, what the big guy said French people: Mont Blanc is split between us and them The entirety of NATO: your border splits Mont Blanc in half A treaty from 1860: the mountain is split French government: NuH-Uh!
The border makes perfect sense right where it is. You have one of the largest ridges in the alps, running almost east west, that perfectly divides Aosta(a long valley which opens out into the Italian lowlands) from Chamonix(which is in a valley that feeds out into lake Geneva), with the border along the ridge between the two. Borders in mountain areas are almost always run along the highest ridge line, as this one is. Its also the watershed divide
My old Roman great-great grandfather Cato said 2000 years ago that the Alps are the wall of Italy. And he was very wise and was always right, and that meant that the Alps have always belonged to Italy.
"Why Italy wants France to Return half of Mont Blanc" France cant return nothing that they dont have, the mountain is of both, France can say whatever they want but the international community is allineated with Italy.
What upset us Italian is the fact France always want all the cake. I mean, wtf, we agreed to share the Monte Bianco with you; we could decide to take all the peak. At the end, it was part of the Italian pre-unitary state of Sardinia-Piedmont. We agreed to gave you Savoy, not Monte Bianco. So, just be a good, grown up neighbour, and accept that the title of the "Highest State of Europe" will be shared among both of us.
Yeah, Savoy that was already french at that point like Nice. It's even ridiculous to consider the Aosta Valley Italian since they act more like an independant state and have a rare and rich culture.
Have you ever been to the Aosta Valley? It's definitely not "practically an independent territory". It's just an Italian autonomous region, same as Sicily or South Tyrol.
@@CristianFrancescoDepalo wasn't my point , you were speaking as if italy could if it wanted claim all of the mountain due to historical claim and that the french should be gratefull for them not doing that , when in fact that sharing is from a treaty and sealed
The video is very inaccurate, France helped Italy only to conquer Lombardy during the second independence war. The Veneto region was annexed after the third war, with the help of Prussia, not France.
@@PoliticswithPaint To remain neutral,you should have mentionned that if the border has to follow the peaks of the mountain,France must share Mont-Blanc with Italy,but Italy as well must share Monte Bianco di Courmayeur with France... Unless this rule applies only to France?
@@dapoun7228 Monte Biaco di Courmayeur is not the natural crest Would France share L'Aiguille du Midi? Oh right, with you French it goes :"What's mine is mine, what's yours is also mine"
wow, I'm suprised to see the french commentators saying that the mountain should be half and half. I mean probalìbily it is just a stereotype, but in Italy everyone thinks that the french are the most nationalist and patriotic people in Europe, seems not true, or at least seems not true anymore.
Its a bit... complicated There are plenty of patriotism and especially chauvinism in France still today, i mean former global empire and all that, being grouped with the underdogs and not the superpowers and all definitly hurts our pride one way or another. But in the meantime i also found as a french that in the West Europe the most Patriotic and nationalist people ive met were Italians because "grrr give us Corsica and Nice, and all the stuff you stole you damn frenchmen". Its a matter of pov really. The problem over the mountain is really not dealt with on the french side not because of needless pride however, but because no one actually gives a f about it beyond "oh yea, its french, neat", like the mere idea of sharing it with Italy never comes up because well, all we learn is that its french and its never mentionned again unless you study history thouroughly, geopolitics, or are just curious enough that stuff like this video shows up in recommandation. Really obscurity and the remnant of chauvinism (sorta nationalism except more french) is the litteral only thing that prevents us from actually dealing with this border inconveniance
@@NDScalio C'est débile de dire "on sait" quand on ne s'est pas plongé dans l'histoire du mont et des traités qui ont déterminé les frontières actuelles mdr
@@DaDa-ui3sw Quand t'étais gamin et qu'on te parlais du Mont Blanc, tu t'intéressais tant que ça aux traités? Nan, à la fin tu vas juste conclure dans ta tête qu'on en a une partie, et que l'Italie en a une autre, c'est tout.
@@NDScalio je disais pas "on sait" bêtement je m'en battais les couilles surtout mdr y a plein de Français aussi qui "savent" que le mont Blanc est français
I recently went to Mont Blanc just a month ago. And I gotta say, it was amazing for someone who never saw such a high up place and never felt snow in my life up to that point. It was just, different snd it was magical to me. (I live in the tropics, so that's why)
As said in the treaty of turin that declares the passage of savoy and nizza to italy to france, the border pass truh the mont blanc/monte bianco giving half mount to france and half mount to italy, but france refer its border from a document dating 70 years before the treaty of turin making a huge mess
The Treaty of Turin has ambiguity aknowledge by both. French based their understanding on first annexation treaty that was voided at end of Napoleonic wars. So italians prefers a treaty from the begennig of 18 century. You really don't know your facts.
A che ci sei metti Malta, Canton Ticino, Dalmazia. Venezia Giulia, Istria, Albania, Tripolitania, Cirenaica, Etiopia, Eritrea, Somalia, Gibuti e Tiensin e faciamo 31.
@@ServantoftheDivine1701 I am currently deciding on whether I should say "sorry m8, ur replying to the wrong person", or just go with it, and reply "Close, Socialism." and call it a day!
"Love, which quickly arrests the gentle heart, Seized him with my beautiful form That was taken from me, in a manner which still grieves me. Love, which pardons no beloved from loving, took me so strongly with delight in him That, as you see, it still abandons me not...” ― Dante Alighieri,
Amor, ch'al cor gentile ratto s'apprende Prese colui de la bella persona Che mi fu tolta; e'l modo ancor m'offende. Amor ch'a nullo amato amar perdona, Mi prese del costui piacer sì forte, Che, come vedi, ancor non m'abbandona. The translation you offered changes a bit the meaning of the two stanzas, so, as I studied these verses recently and as an Italian, I'll try to write a better, non in the form of a poem, translation, more accurate to the original Love, which quickly inhabits the noble heart (noble as in pure; gentle is plain wrong, at least as it's used today) Seized him with my beautiful form That was taken from me, in a manner which still offends me. Love, which doesn't allow any beloved not to love (as in: it's impossible to not love back) Gave me so strong love of him, That, as you can see, still doesn't abandon me. Now my translation could be improved a lot, but it retains the original meaning a bit better, at least in my opinion, as I don't know all about English
The valid treaty is the one following the cession of Savoy in 1860 in which the summit of Mont Blanc is halfway between the two states. This was the last treaty signed since following the end of World War II Italy has cedes some lands to France but none of them was on Mount Blanc. So the real border is the one of 1860 when thr borded was on the top od Mountain
Why? There’s no reason to fight, because the mountain is split in two with the Treaty of Turin in 1860… and it doesn’t matter that France says “we lost our copy of the treaty during WW2”, in the hope that they can go back to the Napoleonic maps and try to steal someone else’s land yet again. Saying that a treaty isn’t valid just because you lost your copy, is as idiotic as throwing away your heating bill and then refusing to pay by saying that you owe no money for heating.
Continents are not clearly defined even as a concept, meaning that really you could even say that mount Everest is the tallest mountain of Oceania and you'd still be right
@@gringologie9302 Savoia already had an administrative border with Valle d'Aosta, and the Monte Bianco was on the border, shared by the two regions. This can be seen in Sardinian maps before they gave the Savoia to the French. Napoleon stated: "La conséquence naturelle de cette cession serait de prendre comme frontières les limites administratives d'aujourd'hui". Moreover, after WW2 France did ask the UN to formalize a few changes to its border with Italy. It was the perfect time to reclaim the Monte Bianco. They did not. The Monte Bianco is split in half, a French side and an Italian side. STACCEEE
“The French believe that kids feel confident when they're able to do things for themselves, and do those things well. After children have learned to talk, adults don't praise them for saying just anything. They praise them for saying interesting things, and for speaking well.” ― Pamela Druckerman
@@kinggeedorah8303 you can cope and puke as much as you want but those territories still belongs to France now and its certainly doesnt seem like its gonna change anytime soon
The French and the Italians send their very best close-quarters combatant to battle on the mountaintop to boost tourism for both sides, whoever's country wins owns all of the mountain for 4 years. If it is a draw, the whole mountain goes to Switzerland for 4 years until combatants can reconvene.
As far as I know, the dispute is whether the border pass through the main summit of Mont Blanc or through the highest subsummit Mont Blanc de Courmayeur, which is ~50m below and a few 100s meters away, a flat saddle separating the 2. This last summit is the one visible from Courmayeur, and not the main summit. It is also a rocky summit, while the main summit is only ice/snow. The key point on the treaty of 1860 is whether the border follow the ridge, as visible from Courmayeur, or through the watershed ridge, the redaction is unclear and the maps of the time, not so precise. Besides, due to continuous evolution of the snow/ice cover, the ridges from the main summit always change whereas the ones from the Mont blanc de Courmayeur do less (when rocks fall). Putting a border on a changing glacier is not the best idea when you can use a rocky ridge instead😀.
That's why a lot of people agreed on the diplomatic partition of Monte Bianco. French are too proud go on that eay, good or bad. That's why many in Italy can't stand France on Italic territories(no Italian, mind you). I.e. Corsica, Savoia(Savoy) and Nizza(Nice). (P.S. due to recent idiots I need to specify, I'm not stating my belief and my point of view. It's the general outlook. So before you make yourself a joke or just strengthen bad stereotypes,please think before you write) [I really need to say again Italic≠Italian]
You really consider Corse, Savoy and Nice to be Italian? Kinda cringe considering they are french speaking and cultured places, find yourself a stable government instead of being mad for France having more territory
@@SaladeDeFruitt Italic≠Italian, I can understand without prior knowledge all dialects of the region. Without talking about Corsica, that is litteraly just slightly different from Sardo.
In reality, the document for the cession of Savoy to France during the Risorgimento sanctioned the division of Monte Bianco. This document has been compiled in two versions: one in Italian which still belongs to Italy and is the basis of Italian claims, and a French one which, however, France has lost over the course of history and therefore considers the Italian one invalid, a fake.
I'm both italian and french. Never heard in my life about such a "dispute". I've always heard people referring to the italian and french sides of monte bianco. I don't think it's a big deal as it's described
Actually we don't want them to return something that nobody agrees belong to them. With this title it seems that now it belongs entirely to them, but it's not. They act like if pur part belongs to them, and we keep acting like their claim is meaningless. There's a non agreement which doesn't make them the owners of the mountain.
@@romaingillet2526 nope, Savoy took Sicily but exchanged it with the kingdom of Sardinia that was in Neapolitan hands, so just to have a Kingdom title they renamed them Kingdom of Sardinia, Piedmont was a principality
As an Italian I've never heard about that. Really EU made all possible territorial disputes a nonsense so who cares who owns Monte Bianco? Splitting it in half is enough. As it is
@@ryanbrimson8238 woah, pal, it’s just a fact that Italy is way cooler than France. My opinions aren’t automatically factual, it just so happens that a fact and my opinion are side by side
@@ryanbrimson8238 ok, dude. There’s not a single reason whatsoever to get all feisty. I’m sorry that you couldn’t tell but I’m making a joke bub. You have no reason to be all upset. If you do, I genuinely need to hear it. Not once in my post did I say the French were snobs, not sure where you got that from. For your last section, I had no clue that was the case. You’re really saying a country doesn’t get half a mountain because it’s cooler? Really? My whole geopolitical understanding is upside down. In my opinion, I think Italy is a cooler country, that’s entirely on personal taste. Henceforth, I make that comment. I have no clue where you got the idea I was being serious from
@@battlepans1927 I’m actually sorry for my comment, it was rude and stupid. i knew you were joking of course but as a french guy I’m just so fed up at this point of seeing people hating on my country and people, that even a joking comment like this gets me wound up. Have a good day anyway
I'm Italian and i've never heard about this dispute before this video. I've always thought about the Monte Bianco as a splitted mountain, "more or less" half french and "more or less" half italian. But the fact that nor the French or Italian people are awared of it, shows how much they care
Honestltly there is no tension around this issue. Since 1995 both governments are in charge to find a solution and do not prioritize it as important… therefore doing nothing. On top of national pride the real issue is who is in charge of rescue services which are provided free of charge, by both state. This point is already solved by an agreement called « la triangulaire » (including Switzerland) on rescue services provided on the area.
Fun fact: The Mona Lisa was not stolen, but sold by Leonardo himself, it was commissioned by the french. The funny thing is someone tried "stealing" it to bring it back to Italy once.
France and Italy should share it, French gov just has to say it is an act of international friendship and a show of european cooperation if they think that sharing would hurt their pride. In practice it already works like if it was shared (montain rescues being conducted by the Italians on their side for exemple).
Seems ridiculous that a mountain that was almost impossible to cross would be fully inside an historic region. When it comes to Franco-Italian relations, whe have far greater contrasts, so I'd say that these contrasts reflect on the mount rather than the other way around.
@@Beregorn88 Dude the cities welcoming the tourists are not at the top of the mountain... don't you have a brain? The border dispute is about a small unihabited area
@@gontrandjojo9747 Ok, I'll try to explain the situation using simple words: if you can only reach the summit from the french side, tourist that want to climb the mountain will stay, and spend their money, in Chamonix, instead of Courmayeur, causing a real economic damage to the Italian tourism industry. Can you see why it is a problem? The Italian alpine police has a duty of helping and saving people in the "contested" area (since it's "french" only when it comes to rake in profits, never when there is money to spend) but Chamonix's major built a gate on the safe trail preventing easy access to the area: multiple times the Italian police had to climb it, or leave the safe trail, while transporting hurt people. Can you see why it is a problem? For a long time, the only cable car reaching point Hellbronner was the one from Aiguille du Midi; after the opening of the Skyway now you can reach it from the Italian side too. Both Hellbronner and Aiguille du Midi are in french territory, but the same round-trip between the two costs almost 50% more if you come from the Italian side. Can you see why it is a problem?
@@lamouettegaming I will call smart as sh..t. Materazzi did that to get Zidane angry, and that worked flawlessly. It's no more and no less a smart tactic that any worlds Defender use, since the dawn of time and also in this days. It's the midfielder/striker that should be smarter than the defender and do not fall in hos provocations.
As an Italian, I just think it's unfair that France doesn't get to fulfil its claims. Sure, historically, it would make sense, but so would the island of Corsica, and yet nobody would doubt it is a rightfully French island
The treaty of Turin says the border is on the closest ridge to Italy... so the border is on the Mont Blanc of Courmayeur, and not the Mont Blanc. The italians are wrong.
As a German, I can only say, Monte Bianco is definitely Italian. If we can't have it, the frogeaters can't have it as well haha. (Not meant offensive ;D, but it is italian)
@@florianbarkowski6856 Thousands of documents were lost or destroyed when french administration left Paris just before nazis arrived in Paris in 1940. And other thousands of documents where lost or destroyed by german administration when nazis left Paris in 1944. So who really lost it,frog eaters or fritz? nobody knows... Still,i don't understand why everybody talks about this lost,as Italy provided to France a duplicata 30 years ago. A joint commission studied this map,and BOTH italian and french experts concluded that it was impossible to set a border with this map,as this map was drawn before any topographic survey was made. But it's interesting to know that when it's about stealing french land,the Germany/Italy axis still exists. Sadly,some countries will never really change...
Fun fact: about Mona Lisa everything should have been resolved, recently an original copy of the paint has been found in Italy, so it is not a problem anymore
The Mona Lisa is more the face of the issue it’s not the issue itself, is famous so people use it as an example but it’s actually one of the few that wasn’t stolen but! the majority of the Italian art at the louvre is!
Let's put this way. Why all mountain peaks on the border are split in two by the border except for Monte Bianco? It doesn't make any sense right? Let's just call it the usual French grandiosity...
@@zeniith there’s a difference France occupied those regions without any French in it. While Savoy and Nizza had many ethnically Italians which you French can’t even deny since Garibaldi was from Nice
@@Boretheory savoy had some scattered italo-arpitans but they were mostly bilingual with french and italian was their second language. Nice however was 90% italian, and in 1870 garibaldi actually won the local elections and went on to represent the region in parliament. His requests were ignored and italians were either killed or deported while parisians were moved to nice en masse to change the local majority. Fun fact nicois(nizzardo) is a dialect of ligurian (of you are italian) or occitan (if you are french). The french changed the spelling rules of the dialect to be more french live "today" was "tuggiù" (still pronounced like this) but the french tought it should be spelled "toujou" to be closer to the french "toujours"
The fact is Mont Blanc as always been divided betwen France and Italy... That's proved by Turin's Treaty signed by both countries... The problem is Paris says they have lost their copy of the official maps.... But what count are international official treaties and not words.....
Just to clarify, Italians don't hate the French we just consider them to be snobs mainly because of Parisians' reputation worldwide. Some brain-dead Italians argue that the Gioconda, Corsica and Savoia should be returned to Italy cause in their opinion France stole them but that's just nonsense and no-one in their right mind supports those outlandish claims. That being said France does have quite an attitude, the French never really got past their imperialist ideas and to this day keep on a almost colonial grasp on Africa with consequences affecting everyone in Europe, they insist in somewhat extreme policies regarding minorities which lead and are leading to almost cultural genocidal results, Corsica being the main example, and generally the French maintain a militaristic sentiment almost unique to them in the EU. This French "grandeur" is also shown in the Monte Bianco issue since even though there are official documents splitting the Mountain in two, mainly the Treaty of Turin from the year 1860, the French still insist they own basically the entire thing, as an EU enthusiast I hope the issue will be soon settled but a bit of a collaborative attitude by the French would be much appreciated, maybe while we are at it we could also solve the Sardinia waters controversy since once again France is acting like Sardinia isn't an island capable of exercising a marine border in the Mediterranean.
There were no genocidal attitude in Corsica ? The region maintains an autonomous status. Although I agree with the other things you mentioned. Yes, it would be easy to find a compromise. I personnaly think sharing is the right solution, it would also prove that two nations can be friends. A french Mt Blanc is acknowledging of the local realities.
@@crkcrk702 Corsicans are asked by the government to unify into French culture proper, their language is dying and their culture with it, doesn't matter if it's an autonomous region if they can't act like it. Corsica is basically living the same horrible fate Occitania went through.
@@crkcrk702 I'm not talking about independence, that's not my point, what I'm saying is France should protect and encourage cultural diversity within non French proper regions. Italy values all of its dialects and outright recognise tongues such as Sardinian as proper languages which are for example even learnt in school and read on textbooks.
Now now, bossy and spoiled? Oh i fully agree, but a passion for cultural appropriation? Tssk how rude, an Obsession would be the correct word, you WILL give us your food recipe and we WILL adopt it as our own and upgrade it into its own thing
@@lolloblue9646 we dont even need to, Americans are probably going to call it french at one point anyway even when its not and we'd only be like "not really the case but we dont really care either way, like yey extra credits for something we didnt even do"
Unfair that France gets to claim the whole of the biggest mountain when the border otherwise straddles the mountain ridge, but I get just giving it up wont do for a proud nation like France, which I think leads to the only possible answer being Italy and France having to go to war over the mountain.
That's why a lot of people agreed on the diplomatic partition of Monte Bianco. But French are too proud go on that eay, good or bad. That's why many in Italy can't stand France on Italic territories(no Italian, mind you). I.e. Corsica, Savoia(Savoy) and Nizza(Nice).
