Pretty sure that idea came up in the 90s. Don't remember WHY it never took off. Think people were scared if I am not mistaken. Remember there use to be a ferry to Port Royal but after that accident/incident it was shut down.
Jamaica needs a train system that circumvents the island point blank period. Imagine coming out of the airport in montego Bay and taking a train to Portland!!
What you are suggesting makes no sense. You are thinking from a consumer perspective and not a business perspective and the cost to build, and maintain it. You would be foolish to compare small underdeveloped Jamaica to New York City and while most of you only know of New York because of TV and marketing manipulation, most other cities in the US are not set up like New York. Not even Florida has what these guys are discussing because it would not make any economical sense so they didnt develop a train system . It's only now, they are trying to implement trains because of traffic but not enough people are using it and it has to be subsidized by the state when the Brightline is a private company. In other words, it is not solving the problem that they thought it would have solved. So while you are living in an illusion as a customer , you have to understand business . The only reason New York was train and subway heavy is due to the over population and people living on top of each other in a small hub. It was not a vision thing like they are suggesting but the fact that there were no other alternatives to manage the amount of people that needed to get from point A to point B other than mass transit and buses would not have done the trick...
@@bjvu9460 New York is a very poor example to use for a railway or subway system. Look at other developed systems like the british, japanese or chinese. A railway system that circumvent the island would create so many business opportunities. Yes it would be very very very expensive to build and maintenance would be costly. But with a good sustainable plan I'm sure in the long run the investment would pay off. I remain optimistic
That’s not a completely accurate statement about Florida. Brightline continues to expand throughout the state as South Florida has seen the economic benefits. Now it is not for everyone due to the high fees but that’s also why there is tri-rail and in Miami Metro rail for all commuters. Florida also have regional transportation planning boards that help drive urban plans and political policies for transportation. My question for Jamaica, is there a master development plan inclusive of transportation and mobility? Is Jamaica apart of the Smart Steets initiatives happening all across the US and other countries? Who are the leading Urban planners in JA?
@@bjvu9460other examples . I’ve visited many countires in Europe & Asia who have amazing train links , sorry to say the USA is one of worst examples to use about a railway system. Yes Jamaica is small and not rich but we can have conversations to see how it could work .
I used to ride the train from Highgate st.marys to downtown town corporate area kgn.@ darling st.. to pick up my then girl friend, now wife of 48 yrs.she met me from Harbourview,we then road the same train to mobay,where we took a mini bus to negril, those were the good old days, bring them back 😅
wooow ,this story is awesome, Imagine a whole 2-3 generations have no idea that a train system once existed on our island. that is sad. i had only taken the train twice but i did take it from down town Kingston to Montego bay. this needs to be revitalized.
The Landscape Architect said "if you find a way to enable people to make money out of a railway, it will happen." It is this kind of wrong thinking why there is no railway. The focus should be on having a cost-effective national transportation system for Jamaicans. That means improvements in public transportation. Having a railway system to move people and commerce end masses. Cars and lorries have an insatiable appetite for more of Jamaica's increasingly Scarce accessible land for more roads and associated services. This is not cost-effective and is a symptom of poor governance.
Jamaica needs a modern train system, after all we are the first country outside of the uk and US to have a railway system, it's expensive but would do wonders for the island and also limit car traffic and over saturation. Could be awesome for freight as well, Trinidad is developing a modern railway they are more wealthy than we are but it's possible.
Its true. Jamaica is a car dependent country and in many places especially within cities and towns, its not particulatly walkable either. Too conested with vehicked and no space for proper sidewalks. The country cannot advance in that way. People must be able to safely walk, bike, and ride clean reliable public transportation whether that be buses, trains, trams or even city based subways for us to have some progress, boost the tourism that we are so dependent on, create jobs from a thriving public transport industry and the thing that go along with that. We also need to restore some civic pride. As usual we are and have always been shortsightef in our thinking and planning regardless of whichever government has been in place and then the generations to come will pay the price iin ugly, dirty, congested towns, cities and communities. Also we need to be able to start to build with some degree of beauty in mind too and stop with the cacaphony of big ugly buildings whether it be public buildings, homrs etc. These things do affect our mental wellbeing believe it or not , and thus the physical too. Older coties are towns were wsy more beautiful than what we are forced to suffer through today. Its like that matters none at all anymore. And I dont just mean luxury unaffordable condos.
Love the discussion as a Kingstonian I discuss this all the Time . kingston needs either a subway system or more practically a monorail system that threads the center of the city. also dedicated bicycle and electric scooter lanes. the Tram that used to operate in kingston should be reintroduced and expanded. Jamaica had a fully functional rail system before the united states did or at least thats what i was told when i was a boy.
@@randolphwright6565 Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea. A subway can be underground, elevated or BOTH. Paris is BOTH. Underground is hugely expensive. Elevated is usually cheaper but in terms of already built up areas, how we would allow people to access the stops for elevated would be interesting. Heck even for underground. Tram systems run on the same level as cars and don't really impact traffic.
Jamaica needs to bring back the train service but in a modern more efficient way using double tracks at least. There should also be a light rail service for the Kingston metropolitan area like how they had the tram cars of former years. Where there is no vision by the government the people “perish.” There should also be a ferry service from Portmore and Port Royal/airport area.
@@Throp I’m glad that you are positive but I won’t hold my breath. Years ago in the late 1990s there was an Indian investor who was interested in reviving the train system but the government then rejected the offer as being too small. So they preferred to make it rot and decay and everyone loses instead of taking a smaller investment. Also at one of our Meadovale citizens assn meeting the then minister is transport said there were powerful parties who had an interest in trailer trucks transporting goods than having the trains transport goods. FYI - I no longer live in Jamaica.
@@zndrsmith Frankly, I was nervous so I didn't mind. NEVER trust the Indians and trains. See India and the ever present people ON TOP of the trains and the litany of crashes.
Jamaica is too eager to copy the American model of car-first - it's a trap! We think of cars as increasing connectivity but cars are the most expensive and least efficient way to get around, and they also magnify social exclusion. The most efficient is simply being a walkable distance to most of the things you need. This is achievable through density and mixed zoning. For example, there is no zoning in Japan that doesn't allow for commercial use (the most restrictive is limiting to 50% of the surface area). These can be coffee shops, bookkeeping offices, barber shops, etc. Building from that, you can go to cycling, public transport, and finally personal vehicles. We think we need cars, but we only need them because of the way cities are designed - it's a structural dependency. Sadly it's telling that as one of the countries with the most to lose from climate change, Jamaica is not considering more socially, environmentally, and economically sustainable ways of living.
As a trains professional with over 30 years experience in the UK I can assure you that a train service will be a major draw for tourists especially the train spotter niche given the uniqueness of Ja’s rolling stock. Happy to discuss
There was a terrible train accident and every since then they stopped the trains. I loved when we had the trains. There was trolley in Kingston at one time. I saw articles on the cost of running it at the time. There were scooners from St. Elizabeth to Portland in the 1800s. This was how people travelling abroad would get to the ports. My family owned that business in the 1800s. Please bring back trains, ferries or trolleys and tramps.
Are you all telling me that none of you is aware of the non-competing clause of a new railway operating alongside new highway infrastructure? It's why they rehabilitate and have the old rolling stock in service. Your new railroads will come in after the highways have been paid off (not in this lifetime), and by then, flying cars will be the new normal.
So another protective clause was put in they did so with JPSCO as well. So the first phase is to get the lawyers to change this clause. Nothing is impossible if we work together on it.
I know of the clause but I was just thinking that if we have the same or an affiliate Chinese company build out that new rail infrastructure then they would be amenable to modifying that clause. 😀
Everyone/neuvoriche/ yuppie class states will follow California's format Because most people are liberal minded And communist by nature with a constant eye on the public coffers Public coffers built by the masses mind you, through intellectual and scientific advances so As Jamaica builds its tax base of will heeled expats, foreign minds and neuvoriche They will increase taxes make draconian laws to disposess the lower middle class and poor Requisition their forfeited properties for their pie in the sky Social green projects to demonstrate their modern success and glory They need to get the great unwashed out of the way by any means necessary These are empty vessels, life fights against Parasites Imagine Jamaica is 120+miles long 70+ wide packed within by a dense geological diversity, more than most of the world They want to put in a rail 🚈 😫 network from one end of the island to another In what dream scape will that occur with Jamaica`s diverse and difficult terrain The volume of travelers and the number of stops between Kingston and Mobay Makes such a concept a pipe dream, and causes one to wonder if the Crack is taking effect Look at a car closely, retrofit it to be a power source for a tram grid without overhead wires put it on the tram line as the power source and use AI to control traffic flow without inconveniencING our person A car is independence and the most flexible transport utility In both urban and rural areas. I get it the green cognitive dissonance Has blinded you to reality. A volcano just blew up in Indonesia which will make all vehicular co2 emissions over the last 20 years miniscule by comparison, see mama earth 🌎 does a good enuf job poisoning herself 22k car imports a year is a drop in the bucket 🪣 When compared to life cycle of cars on Jamaican roads.
If we set up the railway system all over Jamaica we’d have less road fatalities, and guess what it wouldn’t be that hard because we already have the system set up most places… throp negril and sav need some love continue to pressure them. I was at west end yesterday the road is garbage. Jamaica is not a poor place we’re just plagued by corruption they need to link with the Chinese and get it done.
@@Revolutionparty876 I disagree. It's the people of Jamaica that make the country corrupt! The people don't follow rules. The people want blys. The people pay for their licenses. The people dont want to wait in long lines so they slip people $$$. I could go on. The citizens of Jamaica are corrupt.
The corruption rubbed off on the people of JA. The Government taught this to the people. No values or principle. I could go on but. Maybe 0ne day they will realize that pride means nothing when you have nothing! The lying, theif, 6 for a nine etc. Only the old time ppl kno what's right. 🙏🏽 Jamaica is A paradise but the ppl don't kno it. Such a beautiful place and it's dirty and no one cares. Take pride in being better person s from a beautiful island. A foreign life is not a island life.. 2 different situations. (LIFE STYLES). ITS NOT THE SAME. Some ppl have no water or a place to live, but yet they only want to wear name brand! Smh Don't let society suck out the common sense you suppose to have.
Forget the Government and the ppl of JAMAICA has to come together and help each other take part in agreement to make it Better for the ppl of Jamaica. Everyone will win 🏆 🙏🏽
Great content as always Throp. This video had me grinning from ear to ear as memories of my childhood taking the diesel and/or train from Kingston to Montego Bay, or from Kingston to Portland. I knew every stop on each route. I knew which stop offered the best fish or oranges, etc. Those memories cemented Jamaica’s beauty for me. My favorite stops were Old Harbour, May Pen, Porus, Maggotty, Balaclava, and of course Kendal in Manchester which remains the site for one of Jamaica’s deadliest crash. I wish every Jamaican could experience the breathtaking views as the diesel zipped along the rails which lied parallel to the ocean as it made its way to Portland. These were truly glory days.
2. Bringing back the diesel and trains would be amazing. For those who don’t know, the diesel was the faster, and what was simply the train was primarily used for transporting supplies with maybe one or two passenger cars. I don’t believe a system akin to NYC is feasible for Jamaica, but I welcome the return of the tram carts, and a ferry system are ideas that ought to be explored. I am happy to hear that plans are underway to redevelop the Kingston waterfront which was magnificent back in my youth. Thanks to you Throp, I am looking forward to returning to live in Jamaica after over 43 years in the U.S. I will be doing everything in my power to make this a reality. When yuh check it out Lawd, nuh wheh nuh betta than yaad. Let’s all do our part to continue to uplift Jamaica.
Me and my husband who is a retired bus driver recently visited Jamaica for the first time to see my parents' homeland. And we are both driver but wouldn't dream of driving in Jamaica as we were so scared for our life. We like to use public transport i.e trains and buses but we couldn't get to see the rest of the island due to no transportation for the whole island. Bring back the train lines please.
As i understand it, various groups have examined the viability of a rail system ( chinese, indians, canadians, americans plus IADB, World Bank) and all arrived at the same conclusion. And what about the proposed public/private to rehabilitate the railway link between Mo Bay and Maggoty? We need the technocrats from Transport Ministry and JRC to add their voices to the debate.
I’m not fully sure if I agree, because the DR has a similar terrain to us and they have both a rail and metro system. So I believe it can be possible for Jamaica
Jamaica needs a metro that stretches from Manor Park to Kingston Waterfront, and from the Waterfront to Portmore and Spanish Town. If they do that productivity would quadruple.
@@randolphwright6565 so what of the Dominican Republic then? You obviously are only thinking half way. left up to you - Jamaican wouldn't have highways now either. You need to think and make sense
@@Amidat you're not worth the conversation... What of Dom Rep.?... They have major international investments eg. The Maersk trans shipment port...an investment Jamaica declined stupidly..Maersk is one of the largest shipping company worldwide...the port authority was earning upwards of Ud$1 million annually from 20ft teu at KW from Maersk....Jamaica has major investments in highways... What's your point... You're rather small minded in your arguments... Laughable
@randolphwright6565 Why can't you reason without attracting someone else's opinion. We are here reasoning with each other and hoping to come out with ways that can be suitable for the island. You, on the other hand, have been arrogant, and a duchebag. Everyone's opinion is welcome regardless if you agree or not 😢
The only thing we need a train for is for commerce. We are not producing anything to require trains. We cannot acquire and maintain simple necessities as garbage trucks, how are we going to maintain trains and railways? I agree with the idea of ferry services.
1:47 Making the point that the current approach is following Ebenezer Howard concept of the Garden City, building out into suburbs. So, do we build up to save those green areas?
These people always say what is not getting done and will always complain about taxes .... The most likely option is use existing line and rehabilitation of that line
Good point from the person in the audience who ask what is a solution? It's all about solutions and action plans. Develop the task forces and put the money behind it
Glad Throp published this segment as a stand-alone clip. The return of the rail system in Jamaica is long overdue. The gentlemen so eloquently highlighted the woeful shortcomings of the transportation sector, their effect on the built environment, and solutions required. Jamaica needs practical, alternative modes of transportation to be established in the very short to medium term. Can start with what already worked, and build out from there: revamp the commuter rail, cargo rail, ferry routes; improve and expand the public bus service. Explore the potential of an underground commuter rail network. With the current real estate boom and growing tourism sector, efficient and timely transportation is a necessity. London, NY, Miami, Japan, wherever......if whatever works can be feasibly adjusted and applied in Jamaica, then so be it. Lee Kuan Yew took lessons from Ja. - among others, and applied them successfully to Singapore. Going forward, Ja. can likewise learn and apply effectively from others. Driving and navigating traffic in urban areas of Jamaica has become a virtual nightmare: productive hours largely being gobbled up by waiting.....W-A-I-T-I-N-G.... to move. The reason?.....Poorly integrated transportation planning and implementation. And lack of prioritising at the expense of quicker monetary gain and political expediency. Public pressure has to continually be brought to bear on the selection and accountability of Jamaica's public leaders and policy makers. If not, we'll be forever spinning wheels - figuratively and literally.
I'm from USA and I love Jamaica, but for the Love of God the "Mind" set is the worst of ALL Time in the World. Why vote for the ppl who don't care about its ppl. Don't vote for them. The roads alone are the worst and if you put them to work on fixing the roads everybody would have a JOB!
Well our country cant run without a government so not voting is useless. It is full time we stop talking about not voting to solve our problems. We the people need to come together talk about the problems and come up with solutions to fix it. Most importantly work together to solve the problems.
I'm suprised person with supposed intelligent would be here makeing such redundant arguement about Trains. These gentlemen except one are missing the point. Jamaica never had the money to even think obout Train; for the past 30 years up to 2016 Jamaica was a Low Income, High Tax, High Debt Low Employment, Low Credit Rating, Country. We could not buy new Buses to support the JUTC. I wonder if some of these Guys have any idea what the cost would be to build a Modern Rail Syatem in Jamaica? We currently go up and down on one track, in some places we would have to drill through the mountain to felicitate another track. We would need to build overpass or underpass where Trains and Road Meet, because level crosing is out of the question, especially with Jamaica Indiscipline Peoplle! Since 2016 we are able to do a few things, because the economy have gotten better, but know everyone is crawling out of the woodwork wanting the Government to do everything, and have forgotten where we're coming from...
Im sure its more than just building a train system....its not as easy as just having a vision...there must be a reason y it hasnt been done beyond the lack of vision
Omg!😢 1:46 the Elderly ! No 2:11 respect for those who built up Jamaica! But for the good was lost n the ppl mashed up Jamaica ! Everybody have bad mind.
The Elderly was left to die after trying to fin for themselves . Rip Donkey Man 104 yr old aka Mr Macpherson The suffering he endured someone should go to prision!!! Big up to JBudd the Baker ❤ for what he did in Mr Macpherson Last days of life.
why are you complaining about something that doesnt affect you ? It was not your money but the Chinese money and it ws created to attract tourist and make it attractive for foreign investors. You have to look beyond your nose to see what is happening and understand the long term vision and while you might believe that these projects are being done to help Jamaicans, they are not. they are being done to attract outside investors and people to take residence in Jamaica which will help the country prosper because it is evident that black people can never grow anything on their own even though they want to but will always need the help of people who dont have black people best interest at heart. I bet you dont realize that the chinese are slowly but surely going to take over the prime real estate in jamaica and in the next 50 years the black people will be working for them like they have done for everyone else throughout history. Who owns all the hotels and benefits the most from tourism? white people who call themselves Jamaicans and here comes the Chinese
we need the highways and the road network to traverse the country. From transporting goods to commuting to work. This is very important. It has and will increase the overall productivity of the island. Less time driving on bad road or sitting in traffic. More time making business deals, networking, studying or staying at home enjoying time with your family
@@Throp we have always had roads. Traversing the island was hardly a complaint. the loss of the train severely damaged the commerce of my home town of Porus. The train used to bring visiting family from Kingston and mobay. In those days, the "common" people got around just fine and were productive enough. In my opinion, chasing productivity like in all first world countries will accelerate urban sprawl, increase the population and decrease arable land.
@@HorsedeadCowfat if common people got around fine and were productive enough then explain why Jamaica has the 2nd highest migration rate in the region after Haiti - and one of the highest in the world....
