Me too😂 . I’ve been called a Calvinist because I’ve quoted scriptures, but when you ask them to explain it’s met with more personal derogatory remarks . 🤷🏾♀️ The new acceptable slur I guess. …. the one who got away from burning at stake ? However I’ve heard Calvin had Servantes burn at stake for heretical teachings When you research history Cervantes was considered a heretic by the Roman Catholic Church and Pope and the Reformers . Don’t know full details of his execution , it was in Geneva, so he was able to escape the Inquisition entering Switzerland.
Calvinism came from a what if question by the apostle Paul. I disagree with it because that’s not gods heart as it’s written in Ezekiel:18 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?
I just don’t like the nickname Calvinist at all. Don’t get me wrong I stand with Reformed theology, but I just call myself a Christian because we have Jesus Christ name , not calvins .
To take it one step further, I hate the term Protestant. As if we're in a perpetual state of protest. However, what an alternative name might look like. I'm not sure but I don't like the term Protestant. May reformed Catholicism?
Really because if you listen to John MacArthur, Voddie Baucham, Steve Lawson all of them tell about their change, they were shown in the Bible and it opened their eyes! It had nothing to do with a book, it was what they read in the Bible!
“His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.” 2 Peter 3:16
Jesus could only be a Calvinist in the sense that Jesus was a Christian, that is, he was not a follower of either himself or another man (John Calvin in this case), but rather in that he might agree with the principles of another man but only because they originated from him in the first place. I’m sorry in advance if I worded that badly but that's the best I can do to understand the claim that Jesus was a Calvinist.
Haven’t you read John 3:16? It’s clear as day. “For God so loved his elect, that he causes them to believe and then run to him like reprogrammed robots, and they shall not be condemned with the un-elect that God does not love, but instead have their complete destiny determined for them with no free will involved at all-hallelujah we serve a God of love and compassion!” Pretty sure that’s what it says, anyway.
I never read anything from Calvin or any other. I was in an Armenian Church and reading the Bible i had questions about what scripture said vs what was being taught or more importantly what was not being taught or discussed. I kept my mouth shut until another doctrinal issue popped up and the lack of conviction it was dealt with left me questioning why people who say we believe scripture would be shy when they say something is an error is being taught but they value unity over Truth. That lead me to unpack what I believed and ask why I believe it and rethink things. I ran into people like Voddie Baucham, Paul Washer, rc Sproul and others who taught with conviction could articulate their beliefs and defend it from scripture and they were making statements of things I already was convinced of from Scripture but people didn't talk about. I still have not read Calvin and I don't call myself a Calvinist. I believe in a Big Glorious Holy God who answers to no one and does as He pleases and sees fit. He shows mercy on whom He will and compassion on whom He will. He is the Potter I am the clay. I am His property and He may do with me as He pleases without explanation or justification. Just ask Job.
This is about where I’m at also…I’ve said before, what’s in and why a title (very little) it’s all about the heart. Just make sure we’re a Christian first and leave the rest to God!
So you had questions and because those men taught convincingly you became a calvanist. Ya, that how people catch it. Most people don't read Shakespeare but you know of many of the stories and use many of the words he made up because others use them.
Armenian is an ethnic group. Arminian is a theological position. Every theological position has weaknesses and curiosities/weaknesses. Each side has to do “exegetical backflips” to some degree. It comes down to this core issue: is God sovereign? Even in salvation? (Check on learning: how do you pray for someone’s salvation-“Lord, please open the eyes of their heart; please take away their heart of stone; please show them their sin and give them grace; change their heart.”) In any case, I thoroughly disagree with Jeff. Never claim association with any group or movement without knowing what the founder taught. That’s beyond foolish. It be the same as saying I’m a Wesleyan and then saying I refuse to read John Wesley. Or I’m voting for Candidate A but I’ve never listened to their speeches.
Pretty much my exact same experience. Here's my comment (cut-n-paste from my own comment): I didn't convert to Calvinism so much as *I just found out that's what I was.* I started life in the Assemblies of God, and from there to a number of non-denominational "Word of Faith" churches. And never really fitting in. When God saved me, he made me a voracious bible reader. And the more I read, the more I looked at the church, saying _"I don't see any of this in here"._ Eventually I drifted away entirely and was unchurched for a number of years. Then one day, I was driving down the road, listening to the radio, and heard a guy named RC Sproul talking smack about Charles Finney. Finney was the darling of the Word of Faith crowd. But the more I listened, the more I recognised that THIS was what I believed, and had believed for many years. So, I didn't convert to Calvinism, I just found out that's what I was. And I found out that there were others like me out there, and that we had an actual NAME. Calvinist/Reformed. That led me to a Reformed Church, where I had been solidly planted ever since.
It’s easy to speak with certainty and conviction when you’re trapped inside a paradigm of thought. There’s no need for original thinking in a paradigm, you only need to look at what the famous proponents of your paradigm taught and espouse the same answer. Unfortunately we were promised to be looking through a glass dimly until we meet Christ, as such you should be wary of anyone who claims a divine gnosis beyond what we are given in the Bible.
If you hear Jeff's testimony elsewhere though he will admit that Dr White had a huge influence on his theology when he was new to the faith. No need to read Calvin of you read and listen to one of Calvin's biggest modern voices.
When I was in Bible school, I was always told bad things and portrayed to me ugly caricatures of the Reformed Theology particularly Calvinism. They would put forth every argument bad and not-so bad type of arguments, and the misrepresentation is just wild. I've had to do the one thing to really see what's in the scripture, to study the scriptures. I was not introduced properly into the reformed theology, but it was the scriptures that made me Reformed, thankfully it's all of the divine Providence that calls the shot and not of my own 'will-ing'
While I was once talking to a Roman Catholic man (who actually seemed solid in his faith) I had at some point in time told him that I was a Calvinist and he asked “Do Calvinists believe in the Holy Trinity?” Satan being the father of lies and confusion has been terribly damaging to many of our Christian brethren in that regard.
Amen. 1 Corinthians tells us to not quarrel over names and divisions. Jesus commands us to love, (John 14-15) and wants us grow IN Him. “It’s not important who does the planting, or who does the watering. What’s important is that God makes the seed grow.” 1 COR 3:7 NLT
Exactly and here's the deal when people who are Calvinists and people who aren't standing before God we're all going to go wow we got that part of it wrong.
@@ThecrosseyedTexanThe only part we can’t get wrong is the gospel. Calvinism removes Jesus’s unlimited atonement from the gospel 1 John 2:2. It also slanders the Father as an unjust unmerciful liar. This is why it is a false gospel. We need to reconcile verses like Romans 9:21 with verses like 1 John 2:2 and 1 Timothy 2:3-4. Provisionists have through context. Calvinism ignores the verses about Jesus’s unlimited atonement and God’s perfect justice and mercy. I encourage you to watch Leighton’s videos. Especially about Romans 9.
@@WatergardengirlWe are supposed to quarrel over the gospel. We cannot compromise on the gospel. Calvinism removes Jesus’s accomplishment of unlimited atonement from the gospel. 1 John 2:2. It also slanders a perfect God as unjust and unmerciful. Paul tells us in Galatians that anyone who teaches or believes a false gospel will be accursed. Please learn verses like 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:3-4, and 2 Peter 3:9 and include them with the verses about God’s sovereignty to understand the full context. God is perfect in every way. Leighton has some good videos explaining Romans 9 in context
In order to follow Jesus you can’t deny his unlimited atonement. 1 John 2:2. The gospel can’t be compromised. We must believe all scripture. Provisionists believe in God’s sovereignty and also Jesus’s unlimited atonement and God’s perfect justice because we take all verses into consideration. Calvinism ignores verses like 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:3-4, and 2 Peter 3:9. We must use all verses otherwise we end up with a theology about a god who is sovereign but is also unjust, unmerciful, and a liar. God is perfect in every way. God is sovereign that is why he doesn’t need every one to follow his plans. If His plans were completely reliant on every single one of our decisions He wouldn’t be sovereign. We must face the hard verses about salvation, all of them and understand them. Paul tells us in Galatians that anyone who teaches a false gospel or follows a false gospel will be accused. Please watch some of Leighton’s videos. Especially on Romans 9 where he and others take the time to put Romans 9 into context instead of just claiming “mystery”. A good preacher or teacher is able to explain and defend the teachings of God. 1 Peter 3:15. God is not the author of confusion and all scripture is profitable for teaching and understanding. God would not hold us accountable to having to know the gospel to be saved but then make it a mystery.
You became a Calvinist because you were reading the Bible while listening to guys like Paul Washer, John MacArthur, Voddie Baucham, John Piper, and probably reading from their study bibles.
You have compiled a list of Satan’s biggest instruments. All of them are works-trusting fruit inspectors, who do not believe, by faith alone, in the Gospel contained at 1 Cor. 15:1-4.
Well, that's because they are forced into talking about Calvinism because people constantly attack them on the subject of Calvinism, and they have to respond. If you met us in our church, we'd be happy to just talk about BBQ Brisket cooking tips.
Not a calvanist because I do not believe in hard predestination. Hard predesrination kills off free will and makes it all God fault. A man was meant to grape that child. And it was predestined, orchestrated by God as say so by Calvanist. Screw that. Under calvanism, God is NOT good. I am not a an atheist either, those are just idiots parading as geniuses. No. I am still Christian. A very flawed one. But still one. For God if my sheepard.
@@Kooch2004 sorry buddy, but it's plain as day that even a child can understand that God Almighty wants all men, Mr and Mrs men, too be saved, Calvinist, suffer from the pride of saving face when they need to understand the gift of saving grace, and you have to choose your chosen place 😇🙏
@@nikao7751it’s also plain as day that all who the Father draws to Him come to Him and He will raise them up on the last day. “All people” does not mean every single individual, that doesn’t make sense in the context of 1 Timothy 2:1-4.
Do a Bible word search on the word "choose." You will find a plethera of verses that call for people to choose this or that. Calvinism says there is no choosing, rather God determines. But Joshua says, "Choose you this day whom you will serve..." God says, "I have put before you life and death, Choose life." The Bible says God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." And yet Jesus says, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction and many are on it. And straight and narrow is the road that leads to life and FEW ever find it." These two verses PLAINLY say God wants ALL to come to repentance and be saved, BUT most wind up in hell. So, clearly, in this instance, God's will is NOT being done. In Jeremiah 19:5 it says, "The people built the high places to sacrifice their children to idols, something I DID NOT COMMAND, nor did I speak it neither did it enter my mind." These verses prove beyond.a doubt that God's will is not being done in all situations and NOT everything that happens, happens because God causes it to happen.
Calvinism is a framework to understand God’s sovereignty, specifically in election. It's not saying people don't have choice or responsibility. It's not saying God "makes people" do things or think things. Those who refuse to study and understand usually just repeat tired rhetoric and nonsense clichés.
Our predispositions, bias, desires, etc. determine our choice. Choosing is not a “free” act in the sense of it not being influenced by things that ultimately determine what will be chosen. You think you are making a free willed choice but you’re really just acting out your predetermined desires, weaknesses, etc. This is why it takes divine intervention, why God draws, why people are elected and given to Christ-why it is not a choice one makes in their heart or mind to attain salvation.
@@lharrrybuggyns8396 that’s compatiblism and it is not free will. If we can only choose from predestinated limitations it is still predestined and not free will. It would also mean God gave us those predestined desires and is responsible for the evil and perishing of those he chose to give evil desires and bias to. God is perfect and doesn’t give people desires and bias that they can’t change and send them to hell for it. This concept is also not in the Bible. A sovereign God does not need all men to follow and agree with every single plan he makes. If this were true he would be reliant on man’s decisions and he wouldn’t be sovereign at all. God is able to get his plans done even when some men refuse to follow His plan for them. That is what makes it miraculous as well. God is amazing.
Interesting that you would read the Bible and conclude that God makes people believe in him despite the narrative from start to finish being God pleading for people to trust him, responding with grace if they do, and turning them over to the consequences if they refuse.
They see themselves as Gods only people since they are special chosen. I been pastor for 40 years and have seen it all. Just love Jesus and tell all about his saving work on the cross.
I grew up in an Arminian church. That was my understanding given to me through human teaching until the Lord opened my eyes while I was reading Scripture in the Middle East in the military. I didn't even know about the debate between the two camps at that time. I later got out and went to Bible college where my theology professor said the same thing as Flowers said here.
Brother Durbin is right. I was a calvinist before I even knew what calvinism was. I was a arminian when I was a false convert. When the Lord saved me He started to show me His preeminence above all things through His Word (especially in regards to how He saved me) and though I didn't understand it at the time, I began believing it more and more as time went by all thanks to the Holy Spirit. Later on I heard about calvinism.
No he's terribly wrong. Calvinism is an evil theology that says Most people are born damned And salvation is pre selected. John Calvin is burning in hell right now.
There’s a lot better videos of Durbin explaining the inner conflict he had between what he grew up believing under modern American evangelicalism and what he was READING IN THE BIBLE. He points to specific verses he wrestled with in his readings for years that led him to submit to Calvinist doctrines.
I became a "Calvinist" sometime between 2016 and 2018, although to me it's just Christianity. I remember having talks with my dad about it and he was quite opposed to the theology I was promoting. However around mid 2022 he started really immersing himself into the scriptures. Then suddenly he started saying the same type of things I was and now we look back at the disagreements we had before and just kind of laugh about it. It was incredible watching him arrive at the same conclusions I had just simply reading the scriptures.
If you believe that Jesus was the messiah (God-man) and being born again and being transformed into the Christ man (new man new nature) through the process of sanctification via the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Your alright with me.
Calvinists appear to largely rely on proof texts to enforce their conclusions, it gets awkward really quick when you ask one to explain Hebrews 6:4-6 (challenging the P in tulip). You may get your doctrine from the Bible, but if certain scriptures appear to contradict what you believe about other scriptures, the problem is you.
Very true! Coming at scripture to "prove" what you already have chosen to believe is such a misuse of scripture. I once had a Calvinist pastor come to a passage of scripture that wasn't in line with 5 point Calvinist theology. He said "It sounds like the Bible is teaching _______, but we know that can't be the case because that's not what our doctrine tells us."
1 John 2:19 King James Version (KJV) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
@@Julie-kl5spin fairness, let’s hope he meant that you need to understand this one scripture by the totality of the scripture,I’m not even a one point Calvinist 😂 I just try to be fair with everyone
I became a Christain at home. Not from church, not from an author. I became a Christain while studying scripture to disprove the bible. Without any outside influence, I believed in election based on scripture. I went to a local baptist church and was told election wasn't a thing and what I believed was called calvanism. I was told this by the pastor, who said it in front of the congregation to me specifically and humiliated me.
I took my family out of a Pentecostal church into a Reformed one because the gospel i heard being preached didn't try sidestep the wrath of God, and suddenly the scriptures opened up to me.
I’m not a Calvinist because God gave me free will to choose and showed many examples of free will in scripture. You can’t put God in a box with a tidy little label, He’s God. He doesn’t have to conform to Calvinist teachings. Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
I became a “Calvinist” long before I had ever heard about Calvin, Sproul, or knew anything about Reformed theology. I was doing alot of witnessing and simply wanted to understand what the Bible had to say about why many people just weren’t listening. For me, it didn’t start with Romans 9, Ephesians 1, or John 6, it started with this verse: “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14
The “natural man” there doesn’t refer to the unsaved man. It refers to the flesh. Which is why you have to keep reading into chapter 3 where immature Christians are described the same way. It doesn’t prove Calvinism.
I don't recall seeing any of the early Christians espouse Calvinist docutrines like Predestination and eternal salvation based on faith alone. Nor do I see any of the early Christians and the Church set the canon of the NT by simply declaring that it is sufficient unto itself.
TULIP, in a nutshell, teaches that anyone who is saved basically won a cosmic lottery that was held before creation, but we’re told to pretend like it’s a “hear-and-respond” message.
Funnily enough, I listen to plenty of calvinistic preachers (particularly Paul Washer), but I'm not a calvinist myself. I see the immense value about the truths I see from especially calvinistic speakers, however, I can't find myself being a calvinist for a few reasons: the issue of predestination and regeneration. I also believe that the spiritual gifts have not passed away, but I'm not sure if that's part of the general calvinistic view
I'm not a Calvinist, because that is a system that then tries to figure out every little detail about how God works out our salvation and gets in to some weird nitty gritty points, as if trying to box God in. I do believe in predestination, because so many verses talk about that, I believe in election, because that theme is throughout both the old and new testament, I believe we are all sinful, and that no one would choose righteousness, because the Bible says so, so we must be born again, because the Bible says so.
Predestination doesn't mean we don't have free will though. It just means God already knows, because he sees all of time at once. I can see you sitting down but it's entirely your choice to sit or stand.
I was a Calvinist, and then began to analyze n use my head n my heart. I changed my conduct to line up with the scripture. The Bible nowhere teaches total depravity, the first of the tulip construction devised to merely make sense of predestination (n i meant to add causes the rest of the pack of cards to collapse). Calvinism is a type of hyper madness that doesn't make any meaningful contribution to Christian experience. In fact it terribly robs one of so many Christian joys. These nuts will bend one day. Sometime very soon. N on that day will it hurt, ouch!
@@7h7o7p Romans 3: “there is no one who is good, no one seeks for God, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”. Ephesians 2: “and you were dead in the sins and trespasses in which you once walked.” Isaiah 53: “all we like sheep have gone astray” If you don’t believe total depravity is taught in scripture, I’d argue you either ignore it, or don’t know what total depravity as a doctrine actually means. I’m willing to say it is the latter to give you the benefit of the doubt.
@@austinnajar as some of your true calvinists have quit sharing the Gospel, you too should quit arguing anything at all with me. God should be able to fix it, n you shouldn't try. That will also line up with total depravity insanity.
What exactly is a calvinist? Can you be one without knowing you are? I believe the bible is gods word and at most points i believe literal is the best interpretation
1 John 5:13. I have 100% confident assurance that if I believe the Gospel at 1 Cor. 15:1-4, I am permanently in his hand. Nothing and no one can ever snatch me away. John 10:28-29.
“His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.” 2 Peter 3:16
The more I read the New Testament, the LESS Calvinism makes sense to me. The biggest issue is that over and over, God demands that we step up and have faith, and admonishes us if we don’t, and RESPONDS to us if we do.
I remember coming to saving faith in 2020 and believing all the “points” of Calvin. And I only started calling myself a calvinist when a friend of mine asked me what I believed about the atonement and he goes “You’re officially a calvinist!” I was a calvinist before I even knew what a calvinist was. 🤷🏻♂️
It’s amazing because John Calvin was not at five point Calvinist. He believed, taught, and wrote that salvation was available to every man. Maybe this guy Durban should read some of Calvins stuff.
Folks, remember: to reject 5-point Calvinism is not to endorse Arminianism. This is not an either-or dichotomy. If we can believe that God is three persons in one being, and reject as heresy any attempts to simplify that concept because of scripture, we can do the same with TULIP by believing that God is sovereign but believe that God responds to our faith-because of scripture.
Non-Calvinist = “I could not save myself so I believed that God could and would through Jesus…” Calvinist = “I am saved because I won God’s lottery before the world was created.”
@@billowspillow Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. Ephesians 1:3-6
If all you’ve ever believed is Calvinism then you’re going to Hell. Point blank. Now if you’ve ever believed the one true gospel of Grace, and THEN you fell into false Calvinistic teachings then you’re still saved. But you’re not going to be useful for God.
I think i cannot embrace one posture. Some biblical texts sound very calvinist, like Ephesians 1. It is clear that God had a plan for us before we were born. Fair point. At the same time, the scriptures also show verses that contradict calvinism, for example when David consults the Lord if the people of Keilah would deliver him to Saul, in 1 Samuel 23, and the Lord says: "yes, rhey will do that". But David fled to another place, and what God said that it would happen, did not happen. This leads me to the conclusion that preknowledge (God is omniscient) does not mean predetermination. If predestination is the case, God created people to send them to hell. And I do not find that in the Bible.
You would expect those who live by their own interpretation of scripture, contrary to the scripture, to start behaving like the Sanhedrin, it’s the same mode of apostasy.
And yet John Calvin was disgusted that all the early Christians besides Agustine, and even Calvin thought Agustine wasn't Calvanist enough, were utterly not Calvanists. Makes you wonder why they got it so wrong if it wasn't just a made up interpretation.
I don't understand the predetermined angle. Or maybe considered "Limited Atonement". I pray for understanding and Clarity, as well as, "Unconditional Election".
Don't waste ur time praying for what God has already given u. When he has given u the medicine for sin, apply it n strive to move away from ur past sin, then God will keep strengthening u more n more. You will find that you too are among those he predestined. Calvinism is not taught in the Bible. Total depravity is a total hoax.
I didn't convert to Calvinism so much as I just found out that's what I was. I started life in the Assemblies of God, and from there to a number of non-denominational "Word of Faith" churches. And never really fitting in. When God saved me, he made me a voracious bible reader. And the more I read, the more I looked at the church, saying "I don't see any of this in here". Eventually I drifted away entirely and was unchurched for a number of years. Then one day, I was driving down the road, listening to the radio, and heard a guy named RC Sproul talking smack about Charles Finney. Finney was the *darling* of the Word of Faith crowd. But the more I listened, the more I recognised that THIS was what I believed, and had believed for many years. So, I didn't convert to Calvinism, I just found out that's what I was. And I found out that there were others like me out there, and that we had an actual NAME. Calvinist/Reformed. That led me to a Reformed Church, where I had been solidly planted ever since.
@@himynameisjohnwumsh7631 It's a split. By and large, no. And my church does not. But some Presbyterians follow Reformed theology, and yet baptise infants.
I'd say it this way rather: the antidote to sin is powerful forever, from its first inception, but the usage depends on the need. God knows those who will use it to escape till the end, n even helps them when they struggle occasionally. The rest never care for it, or never return to it, n do not merit his favour for their own final disregard of God.
So the Spirit will leave you if you’re truly born again? How is that possible? I truly believe that OSAS is true but I will never use it as an excuse to justify sin as some might. But, let’s all be honest, humble, and teachable letting the Spirit guide us. 😊
@@BenjaminButler-zs1cm do not quench the spirit. Do not shipwreck your faith. Work out your salvation in fear n trembling. Make ur calling n election sure. Scripture alludes to continually choosing God n his light in countless ways. It's a long narrow journey. Let's persevere in it. Cheers. There's always help, but we can end up slighting it for our godless propensities. No one is forced in to heaven. The door is open, the welcome is free. But we need to watch out that the very wide n limitless welcome doesn't become the hindrance. The people who have fallen from grace right in front of our eyes are countless. They didn't take up responsibility for their conduct. I too was there at one time, thinking predestination will get me through. Nothing changed. But once I began to be responsible for me conduct n persevered on the long road, I'm starting to stabilize. It's truly the journey of a thousand miles. Hope we do meet at the other end. Cheers n regards.
I'm NOT Reformed because John 6, and Ephesians 1! Jesus and Paul were Arminian. I'm Arminian because some men got together and drew there points out of the Bible to go against false teaching!
Isn’t this same rationalization that Catholics use to prove Catholicism was the original Christian denomination and church? They say Jesus was the first Catholic, are you now saying the same with Calvinism?
“Jesus and Paul were Calvinists!”😂😂😂 Why is it everyone that declares that they’re a Calvinist always have no experience of the Holy Spirit and refute anyone that does? 🤷🏼
That's not right Paul and Jesus were not Calvinist. Gedion asked an angel if he was on his side and the angel responded by saying he serves God. I learned that God is on God's side and we must through Jesus join Him. We don't have a thing that God must join.
In Ez 36: 22-32, God gives us the exact prescription for Salvation: first, He gives us a new heart; second, he puts His Holy Spirit in us; third, He will cause us to walk in His statutes and desire obedience; fourth, He will deliver us from our uncleanliness; and finally, we will remember our evil ways and loathe our past inequities and abominations (i.e., repent). It is Ez 36 (among others) that is being referenced in John 6:45.
Boy, then it sure seems like Jesus was stressing himself out over Israel rejecting God over nothing. Why complain that they won’t trust in God if the way they trust in God is by God making them trust in him? Surely God is more logical than this, and isn’t playing some eternity-long theatrical game?
The word Jeff is looking for is “Christian.” The reformers were not the first Christians in history to debate theology and oppose heretics. The whole quote is so anachronistic it’s bananas.
I do not think what Jeff said is wise. But it isn't that a 'calvinist' rather be called that than Christian. It is there are two main sides in soteriology and they have both labeled one another. Instead of saying I am a Christian with an understanding of soteriology that states God is completely sovereign, man is completely helpless, etc., etc., etc., the shorthand is to say 'calvinist'. Same for the opposite and to say 'arminian'.
@@bjornegan6421 This reads like a straw-man argument. Of all my Wesleyan friends, I know of none who would deny the sovereignty of God or depravity of man. The question is simply by what means of grace does God bring the dead to life? Look up Charles Simeon’s conversation with Wesley and you will find that these two camps often use different words to arrive at the similar conclusions. People who identify themselves so heavily by the name of Calvin transgress the clear message of the scriptures (1 Cor. 1:10-17). By emphasizing a false-dichotomy in the body it’s like the immune system attacking itself instead of attacking the sins that run rampant in the body. I thank God for the work of the reformers, but to use the works of these men to over-emphasize divisions in the body to exalt one’s own position is neither scriptural nor safe. To say that Paul and Jesus conformed to teachings penned nearly 1600 years later is wildly outrageous, and again, unscriptural. Semper Reformanda.
I came to believe in the sovereignty of God purely by reading Romans with a friend in a dorm room in the Summer of 1981. I didn't read John Calvin. I didn't read a book. I didn't know a thing about the Synod of Dordrecht. Your statement is the very opposite of my experience. Your personal antipathy against the truth of God working salvation according to His own Will suggests your battle is with Him alone.
Believing in the sovereignty of God =\= Calvinism, necessarily. Scripture says God is sovereign but it also says God responds to our faith and our choosing of him.
What I’ve seen is a soft Calvinism and a hard Calvinism. I suspect that many people who say “I read scripture and it supports Calvinism!” only know the soft version. The hard Calvinists get scary extreme because they take things like God’s sovereignty and predestination out of scripture, apply human logic to them, and then treat that human logic like it’s inarguable. Funny how attempting the same thing with the Trinity has resulted in a list of heresies to stay clear of.
As opposed to humbling myself, admitting my sinfulness, and helplessness, and calling on God to save me from the things I cannot save myself from in light of the gospel message, the Calvinist insists I cannot even do that much. That admitting my need, and asking for help is somehow an effectual work, and somehow earns or merits my salvation. The bible consistently calls us to humble ourselves and confess our sins SO AS TO BE saved, and that god gives grace to the humble and opposes the proud, (1 Peter 5:5; James 4:11; 2 Kings 2:19, Isaiah 66:2). Yes I am a sinner, and yes I need the work of the Holy Spirit in order to be saved, and yes God always makes the first move in salvation. but I must chose to respond to His call. We are the ones ultimately responsible with what we do with the words of Christ (John 12:44-50). God does not hold us responsible for things we were born unable to do, he gives us a choice. (Deuteronomy 30) Without free will, love cannot truly exist.
@@Cattleman16479 No sir, you might not be reformed if you think everything I said doesn’t rub up against some aspects of reformed theology in some way or another. Gods sending of Jesus to die on the cross, defeat death, forgive our sins, and rise again on the third day is the act of God’s grace that was necessary and absolutely sufficient for an unbeliever to hear the message of that same gospel and choose to respond by putting their faith and trust in Jesus (rather than to suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18)) so as to be saved, reconciled, filled with the Holy Spirit, and continuously sanctified. Regeneration never proceeds faith in Jesus, Brother. It’s the other way around
@@Cattleman16479 God must save us, god must regenerate us, we cannot do that on our own and I’m not claiming that. Rather, by trusting in Christ we will be raised up BY grace, THROUGH faith. (Ephesians 2:8-9) Read Colossians 2:12, In this verse, faith is is the instrumental means by which we are raised. Therefor, faith, instrumentally, must precede the raising. Does the Bible indicate that a person must be regenerated so that he can believe or does the Bible teach that a person must believe in order to be regenerated? Do we need life in order to believe or do we need to believe in order to have life? This is the question we need to answer, and I’ve found no where in the Bible that states your position clearly, yet could cite you many many more that state exactly the opposite.
So unbiblical to call yourself after field of man!! Repent! Paul denounced the church at Corinth, and said some say they are of Apollos, Cephas, Paul. He denounced this man centered ideology!!!it is godless.
It’s very, VERY easy to understand John 6, John 10, Ephesians 1 (Romans 9, anyone?), and virtually all other supposed “proof texts” of Calvinism without the Calvinism part. Just read the verses in context, without assuming any Augustine-based Manichean Gnosticism, and without wrongfully assuming that “Sovereignty” equals “Determining all things,” and you’ll be fine.
I became a Calvinist by reading and studying the Word. All the preachers I listened to at the time were not and luckily God sovereignly pulled me away from those wolves in sheep’s clothing and lead me to truth.
@@Kooch2004 then you must lead and as a leader are you going to tell your followers, that it's really God's fault, because he left his two children unsupervised in the garden and the devil got to them. That would be accurate as parents leave their children unsupervised to do all the things they shouldn't do and I don't want to take the blame
@@Kooch2004 no God did not know as God trusted his creation and his creation failed him. Mom and dad trusted their children, when they tossed the keys to the car and by doing so the children were left unsupervised and did things they were not supposed to do, and Mom and Dad is to blame
The core tenets of Calvinism are summarized by the acronym TULIP, representing five key doctrines: Total Depravity: Humanity is completely affected by sin, unable to choose God without divine intervention Unconditional Election: God elects individuals to salvation based on His will, not human merit Limited Atonement: Christ's atonement is sufficient for all but effective only for the elect Irresistible Grace: God's grace to save cannot ultimately be resisted by those He has chosen Perseverance of the Saints: Those elected by God will persist in faith until the end
This is human logic in an attempt to understand something in scripture, and applying that logic back onto scripture rather than letting scripture shape the doctrine. See 1 John 2:2, Acts 10:4, Mark 9:24, Romans 10:10, Hebrews 3:14, John 3:16, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, 2 Timothy 2:21, Mark 10:17-23. Read any of those and keep in mind the RULES of TULIP.
Ignoring multiple Bible verses from Jesus saying Jesus came to save the whole world, to talking about how you can be blotted out of the book of life. That’s how you become a Calvinist
@@SpencerLogsdonI have a list of passages in my bullet journal that speak against the five points. They almost always lay things out as “you believe in God, God responds to your faith.” Reformed people have to do backflips like crazy to deny this.
Calvinism is not only “God’s Sovereignty.” Listen to Durbin and James White’s series on the five points of Calvinism for a deeper dive. Personally, to me it comes across as so restrictive and callous that it renders the idea of God’s love and compassion for us entirely moot. Truly “a different gospel” like Paul warned against.
